John Wayne Gacy /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

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a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. [Music] This is True Crime Garage and this is
the case of John Wayne Gay. [Music] In Des Plains, Illinois, near Chicago, a man who served time in prison for sex
crimes was let out. Today, they found the bodies of at least three young boys buried under his house. He is charged
with murder. Here's Jim Cummings. >> Police have been watching John Gasey's suburban Chicago home for the past 10
days. They became suspicious when 15-year-old Robert Past disappeared after he allegedly was last seen with
Gasey. This morning, police searched Gayy's home and found the decomposed remains of three bodies in a dirt crawl
space under the house. They suspect there are several more bodies buried here. >> It's suspected because of the looks of
the area down in the crawl space. Uh there are some other mounds and appears to be more there.
Gayy is a 36-year-old building contractor who reportedly dressed like a clown to entertain at children's
parties. Prosecutors say he once went to prison for a sex offense in Iowa. This afternoon, Gasey was charged with
murdering Robert Peace. And after hearing the remains of more bodies were found at Gayy's house, Judge Marvin
Peters ordered him held without bond. At the hearing, police said Gasey has confessed to the peace murder. He will
be examined by a psychiatrist. Meanwhile, investigators have started to dismantle Gasey's house and garage as
they continue to search for other bodies in this quiet suburban neighborhood. [Music]
Chicago, Illinois, March 17th, 1942, St. Patrick's Day. Mr. John Gayy and Mrs. Marian Gayy welcomed their first son
into the world at Edgewater Hospital. They named him after his father. >> Well, technically they named him after
the mother's favorite actor, John Wayne. So, John Wayne Gayy Jr. His father was John Stanley Gayy. So, technically not
even a junior. He was the second of three children. his older sister Joanne was born two years before him and two
years after him was his little sister Karen. All three attended Catholic schools and they grew up on the northern
side of Chicago. John Wayne Gasey was not a particularly popular kid in school, although he got along well with
his teachers and made friends at school. He was part of the Boy Scouts and he enjoyed the outdoor activities that came
with being a part of the Boy Scouts. Now, Gayy's father was pretty hard on the children, and Gayy felt that he was
abused mostly emotionally and verbally. His father often told Gayy that he was a
disappointment, that he was dumb, that he was stupid, >> that he was a [ __ ] >> Yeah. And he he would even call him
some, >> let's say, slurs that we will not be using on today's episode. >> Yeah. And it seems to me like John
Stanley was very excited to have a boy. >> Mhm. >> To have John Gayy in the, you know, John
Wayne Gayy into the family, but instead of, you know, fishing and playing sports
and stuff like that, he was into gardening. He was into hanging out with his mother, hanging out with his sister.
>> And it sounds like John's father, John Senior, was a pretty difficult man to be
around. Now, I don't know if that if John Gayy senior was hard on the two daughters as much as he was on John Gayy
Jr. >> Yeah. He he whooped them all with a razor belt. >> Mhm. But I'm I'm guessing that that John
Wayne Gayy Jr. probably got the worst of it. Uh being treated a little bit differently by his crappy father simply
because he was the only boy. Mhm. >> Now, in 1951, when John Wayne Gayy was 9 years old, he
was diagnosed with some kind of heart condition. Um, from my understanding, the diagnosis was a non-specific heart
ailment. >> Yeah. And they detected this because any, you know, he was playing outside
with some people, with some friends at school, and he passed out. Well, and this could be part of a a larger problem
here because a couple years later when when John Gasey was 11 years old, now the story goes like this. He was playing
near a swing set and he was hit in the head by one of the swings. Now, you would think that this would be a rather
small accident. However, this is believed to be the cause of a of a blood clot that formed in John Gasey's brain.
Um the blood clot was not discovered until Gayy was 16. From the age of 11 to the age of 16, Gayy suffered severe
headaches and he often blacked out. This was caused believed to be caused by the
blood clot because the blackout stopped after the clot was discovered and Gayy was given medication to to dissolve the
blockage in the brain. Uh this would be a pretty traumatic experience when you think about it though. You have this
young boy who's trying to fit in with the other boys and he goes through through this period of what five years
where he's he's got these weird blackouts that would happen from time to time. >> John Wayne Gayy wasn't doing so well in
school which was another big disappointment to his father. So he actually started taking on a trade and
this was pretty common back in the day. So he started working with a printing press, but because he kept on blacking
out, they said, "Look, you cannot work on a printing press machine if you're going to keep blacking out."
>> Yeah. It's too dangerous. Something horrible could happen to him. Well, he was hospitalized several times over the
years. Uh this for the blood clot and for his heart condition. >> Uh he was having quite a bit of problems
with this. Uh this being in his late school years. uh Gayy was a good student when he was much younger, but maybe
because of these health problems, uh it it turned out that he ended up not being
able to be a good student. Uh despite the medical problems, Gayy was considered a hard worker. He took on a
part-time job, several part-time jobs after school. He had newspaper routes, and he also worked at a uh grocery
store, at one of those IGA stores as a bag boy and a stock clerk. That was one of my favorite places to go as a kid.
>> We had one here in town and that you would always hope to get a couple bucks from mom and dad so you could buy some
candy after school. Uh although Gayy and his father had a lot of problems as the
captain said, John Gasey's relationship with his mother and his sisters were very strong. He was extremely close with
his mother and his sisters. Uh there is rumor and speculation that John Wayne Gayy senior that the the father was not
only abusive but also an alcoholic. Uh there is some suspicion that he physically abused his wife and verbally
abused all three of the children as well. Um >> well there's not a lot of suspicion that
he was a alcoholic. He was an alcoholic. He he ends up dying from cerosis of the
liver. >> Mhm. Well, needless to say, the the family had problems. Uh, several times
John's mother threatened to leave John's father. And even though John Senior was
an unpleasant individual, um, John Jr. did seek out attention from his father and he desperately wanted to gain his
father's approval. >> I mean, I think you see that with most boys, you know, they want the they
always kind of seek their approval of the father more so than the mother, I I would assume. Well, and outside of these
medical problems, there were some red flags regarding John Wayne Gasey's childhood. And now, these are stories
that were relayed uh from his mother and his sisters. But when John was about five or six years old, he got in trouble
within the family. And uh he had been stealing his mother's undergarments >> and these these undergarments kept
disappearing and disappearing. Eventually, they found out that it was John that was taking them. Um, and he
would eventually bury them underneath the house after he stole them from his mother. Uh, having been caught for this
and scolded for it, uh, he he didn't do this, you know, whatever bad habit this was, he fell out of it for quite a few
years. But when he was about 15 or 16, he started doing something similar, but it wasn't his mother's undergarments. He
would steal the undergarments of girls that lived in the neighborhood off of the clothing lines. You know, they hang
them out to dry >> and he would steal them. And it was discovered that he would bury these
underneath the house as well. >> The old panty snatcher. >> Now, John attended several schools, uh,
several high schools, and he never ended up graduating. Um his father did help him out after school um by helping him
get his first car, but it was one of those situations where >> he helped him out by kicking his ass.
>> Well, it was one of those situations where you wonder if John Senior was actually trying to help the boy or not
because it it was a situation where it's like, okay, dad goes and gets the car for John and now John Gayy Jr. has to
pay payments to his father. Well, what ends up happening in these situations, and I'm sure a lot of us have been
there, but then dad ends up being in charge of the car, you know, it's something that you always has have to
ask him if you can use your car to go here or there. Um, you know, and he can remind you, well, you're behind on your
payments or it's actually my car. No, you can't take it to go here or there, >> right? Which you have the right to if
you bought the car. >> Yeah. And so this ends up to ends up leading to a whole bunch of fights and
arguments regarding the vehicle. Well, John decides to run away from home, which is a strange thing to say when a
person is 18 or 19 years old that they ran away from home, but that's how he describes it. And he ran away and he
went to Las Vegas. Well, when he gets to Las Vegas, this was not a really wellthoughtout plan by John Gasey Jr.
because he's in a strange town and he has no money. What happens while he's there, he ends up going to the hospital,
>> okay? and he's unable to pay the hospital bill. Uh they wanted him to pay it was something small, you know, $36,
which is quite a bit more money back then, >> but he didn't have any money to pay this
bill. But this will give you an idea of what kind of personality John Wayne Gasey had was that over the course of
discussing this bill and during his hospital visit, he ends up getting a job with the hospital,
>> you know, and that's the kind of personality he had. He was he was the type that they say could talk to anybody
and he ended up being >> he he could talk your panties right off >> or just take him off the clothesline,
>> right? >> Um but he ends up getting a job driving an ambulance. Now he's eventually fired
from this job. He doesn't have it for very long because they discovered that he has no high school diploma, which was
of course, you know, a requirement for this type of job. >> Now he's in a strange town. He doesn't
have any friends. He doesn't have any family there. Remember, he's very close with his mother and his sisters. And
he's he's very depressed while he's in Las Vegas. >> So, the whole time he's in Vegas, even
though he ran away from home, he's starting to save back a little bit m little bit of money so he can return to
his family and return to his home. I think anytime somebody moves away, you know, especially in this situation, he
he he wants to move away to get away from his father, but he still wants to impress his father, right?
>> He still wants to do something that says, "See, old man, I did something." >> Yeah. And you'll see this when he
returns from Las Vegas. When he comes home, now this is the early 1960s. He enrolled in a business college and he
eventually graduated from this business college. So, how do you get into college
with no high school diploma? >> I think uh some of these schools, if you're willing to pay the bill, right,
>> they'll figure out a way to get you through. So, while at business college, he perfected his talent as a salesman.
>> Um, and he was a he's what people describe as a naturalb born salesman. He could talk his way in or out of almost
anything. and he put his talents to work when he was hired at his first real job,
let's call it, uh, after business school when he goes to work for a shoe company.
Now, he excelled in his position as a management trainee. And not too long after, he was transferred to manage a
men's clothing outlet in Springfield, Illinois. >> And at this time, he's going to actually
find a girl that's going to put up with him and uh, marry her. >> Yes, this is September of ' 64. Gasey
met uh what would be his his soontobe wife. Uh she was a coworker. Her name is Marilyn Meyers. Now her parents owned a
string of Kentucky Fried Chicken fast food restaurant franchises in Waterlue, Iowa. Fred Meyers is her father. Uh
Gasey's new father-in-law. He offered him a position with one of the franchises. Mhm.
>> Soon after that, Gayy and his new wife. >> Well, and a little quick point here is I
think like we talked about, this is a guy that felt like he was a failure and wanted to get ahead and wanted to be,
you know, some kind of status. I mean, where maybe the status was actually more important than the actual money, but
also now I met this girl and her family actually owns businesses. >> Yeah. She has successful parents,
>> right? this could be a good step for my, you know, my career. >> So, the Gayy, the young Gayy family,
well, Gayy and his wife anyway, are going to move to Iowa so he can take one of these positions working for his new
father-in-law. Um, now people in the restaurant biz know this. Restaurant managers work a lot of hours and Gayy
was often working 12, 14, 16 hour days, >> but he was a workaholic. >> Yes. And the plan was that he would
learn the business and then take over the franchise from his father-in-law someday.
>> Yeah. >> When Gayy was not working, he was active in the Waterlue, Iowa JC's. The JC's is
a is a civic organization for people between the ages of 18 and 40, right? It's a notfor-profit organization that's
that has like great leadership training, business development, management skills,
and community service is all involved with your work with the >> It's basically a good way to network.
>> Mhm. >> And and to get ahead and he was really interested. He he actually started a
committee, right? >> Mhm. >> And what was that committee? I want you to say it. I'm not gonna say it.
>> What was the committee? It was a It was a don't litter committee and it was it was all about not
littering. >> He hated the litter bugs. >> I'm sorry. I just I just when when I read that I I just cracked up. But so
meanwhile, as he's uh doing this non-littering committee >> over at KFC, he is demanding that people call him the
Colonel. >> Yeah. You can't make this stuff up, people. >> Well, he he like the captain's saying,
he worked tirelessly performing volunteer work uh through with the community through the JC's. It was there
that he had made most of his friends and he spent most of his free time working with the JC's. Shortly after arriving in
Iowa, Gayy and his wife, they had their first baby, a son, and they also had a daughter while they were living there.
>> Right. and his family members would say, you know, this is kind of the first time
that John Stanley Gayy is looking at John Wayne Gasey and saying, "Hey, that's my boy. My boy settled down. My
boy has a job. >> My boy is supporting his family. He's married." Um, you know, I I think John
Stanley Gayy was kind of worried about his son's sexuality. And so that now the fact that he's married and has kids,
it's like my boy is doing good. And actually was it was kind of the first time that John Stanley was proud of his
son. >> Well, and I think regarding the the mother's undergarments and maybe part of
the reason why the father was so hard on him, um it it was not outwardly stated by her, but the belief by the family was
that he was wearing these these undergarments. And that might have led his father to believe certain things
about his son. But like you said, now he's he's out on his own. He's working for his his father-in-law and his
successful father-in-law and he's he's working to build a family. Uh the Gasey's John and his wife, they had
every reason to be happy uh during their first few years there in Iowa. They had
a nice house in the suburbs. Uh the kids were healthy. Uh Marilyn, his wife, enjoyed staying at home and taking care
of the children. And John had a good job and he was busy with the JC's. He was even working on a campaign for uh
presidency of the local JC chapter there. >> Yeah. >> Uh everything seemed almost too good to
be true and in fact we end up learning that it indeed it was. Um everything seemed to be looking good for John Wayne
Gasey Jr. yet his lucky streak would not last too much longer. Well, and I don't
know if it was just a lux streak as much as I think he had these desires or thoughts inside of him that he was now
becoming not able to control. Yeah. And there was some thoughts that that John Wayne Gasey might be homosexual. Um,
this is kind of stemming from from some of the young guys working at the KFC restaurant, right? Uh they say that he
is making passes at them um during work hours and while working with with Gayy at the fast food chain. Um yet people
close to him, you know, refuse to believe the gossip. Uh >> right. Well, here's a married man with
with two kids. And at the same time that you have this going on at the Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant, you also have
rumors spreading around town amongst the JC members regarding Gayy's sexual preference.
>> Um, and you know, there always seemed to be young boys, uh, young men were always
in Gayy's presence, >> right? But there's a couple odd things that are happening here. Okay, so John
Wayne Gayy is in charge of recruiting people and he would stop at nothing to recruit these people for the JC and like
we said it's this uh community organization and it's supposed to be about networking and helping the
community and John Wayne Gayy decides well I'll rent a hotel and I'll start showing these recruits illegal
pornography tapes >> or stag films. Yeah. >> Right. So that then turns into not only
are we going to watch these tapes, but we're going to hire prostitutes and have orgies.
>> Mhm. >> So that's going on the whole time. People of this town of power are having these these orgy
parties. And he's also starting at this point to to swing with his wife as well.
So you you got a lot of weird stuff going on. So, but then the rumors about, you know,
the JC starts saying, "Hey, well, we know he's doing some of this stuff, but we're doing it, too." The odd stuff is
that he's hanging around a lot of young boys. >> Mhm. Well, and with a lot of these
organizations, um, the way that you can rise to the top very, very quickly is by
recruiting numbers. And if you can recruit more members than anybody else, then you become very popular and a
person of power with inside that organization. >> And on top of that, if you recruited
that person and then you have also this information to hang over their head. >> Mhm.
>> Oh, you know, you might might not want to, you know, rub me the wrong way because you don't want me telling your
wife about this. >> Well, and Gayy was getting large numbers of recruits, like almost unheard of
numbers of recruits. And it's believed that because he threw these wild crazy parties, right,
>> that a lot of these people were signing up just to be part of these parties, not
so much to be really truly involved with the organization itself. Now, in the spring of 1968,
um, Gayy ends up being indicted on charges of sodomy. Now, in most jurisdictions, sodomy is a pretty broad,
vague charge. The precise sexual acts meant by the term sodomy are rarely spelled out in law, but are understood
by courts to include any sexual act deemed to be unnatural or immoral. Um, now there's there's two sides to this
particular sodomy charge uh that that go down here. Um, do you want to give >> Yeah. So, basically the victim's
accounts of the story is they're hanging out with John Wayne Gayy hanging out at
John's house. John shows him a stag film and then gives him some alcohol. This would lead to some sexual advances.
>> Um, you know, we we know the victim's name, but we're not going to say it out
of respect to them. So, obviously, there's this very inappropriate exchange between adult male and basically a
teenage boy. >> Mhm. >> That teenage boy just kind of lives with it and doesn't tell anybody. And Gatesy
actually pays him, I think, 50 bucks and also tells him, "Hey, by the way, I have
connections with the mob. So, if you want to you want to talk about this, uh, you're going to be in for some trouble."
Right? >> So, the boy starts acting strange and eventually breaks down to his parents.
The problem with this is his father is is high up with the JC's, but just high up as a public figure. Well, and some of
those things align with with the version of the story that I'm going to tell. Now, this is according to John Wayne
Gasey, by the way. We'll throw that out there. And that's that's primarily why we're not going to use this young man's
name. But according to Gayy, the young man was a homosexual young man uh who didn't mind having sex with men for
money or sexual favors with men for money. Now, Gayy says that the two of them were involved um that they would
get together often. Um, and for some reason the two ended up in a dispute about money and that the young man went
to law enforcement and said that Gayy had forced him into some kind of sexual act. Uh, Gayy is picked up for this. He
denies all of the charges against him. Uh, later Gasey was charged with an additional charge with hiring a another
boy to beat up his accuser. uh Gayy offered some money to another young man so that the young man could pay off his
car loan and in exchange he was going to beat up this kid. And the way that this
story goes down is that the the hired young man, he gets the kid into his car, he drives him to a wooded area where he
sprays him in the face and eyes with mace and then he he tries to beat him up. However, the boy, he fights back and
he ends up breaking the boy's nose and he manages to get away. He then calls police and lets them know that he was
attacked by this other boy. So, when this boy is picked up and taken into police custody, he then in exchange
gives them John Wayne Gasey's name again explaining that, you know, I was hired to attack this kid. Ultimately, the
judge in this situation sentenced John Wayne Gasey to 10 years in Iowa State Reformatory for men. The maximum time
that you are allowed to give for this such offense. Uh John Wayne Gayy was 26 years old at this time. Now, shortly
after Gayy entered prison, his wife divorced him on the grounds that he had violated their marriage vows. Now, while
in prison, he was he was considered a model prisoner. He remained nonviolent and well behaved and he hoped for an
>> well he was a plus-size model prisoner >> and he hoped for an early parole and
after 18 months later well John Wayne Gasey his parole is approved. >> We'll get right back to the sick and
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cheers, mates. >> And so John Wayne Gayy was living in Iowa. He's sentenced to 10 years in
prison for sodomy charges. >> And after only 18 months in prison, well, they let John Wayne Gasey go. In
June of 1970, John Wayne Gasey left prison and he wanted to return to well, just like Robert Johnson first said and
later the Blues Brothers, he returned to Sweet Home Chicago. >> Now, John Wayne Gasey never ended up
having the type of relationship that he desired with his father and he never got
a chance to rectify that situation after getting out of prison because John's father passed away during his time in
prison. This affected John big time. I think maybe because when John's dad dies, well, John is in prison and for
sodomy charges, too. So, in a sense, isn't John the homosexual stupid loser that his father always told him that he
would be and that he was? >> Mhm. I think John wanted to do something with his life to prove to his father
that he wasn't stupid, that he wasn't a loser and maybe win his father's approval and affection at some point in
his life, >> right? >> And and he had that for a small period >> with the family and everything, but now
that's that's all wiped away. >> So John Wayne Gasey moved home. He moved in with his uh mother and obtained work
as a chef in a Chicago restaurant. uh a job that he seemed to enjoy and he worked at it with quite a bit of
enthusiasm, right? >> And after a few months of living with his mother, Gasey decided he wanted to
buy a house and his mother had been impressed with how he had adjusted to life outside of the prison and she
decided to help him get a house. Now, this would be located just outside of Chicago's city limits. and all of his
family claimed that after John Wayne Gayy got out of prison, he had this insatiable drive to be something and
become something. >> Yeah. And it was in 1971 when John Wayne Gasey met Carol Huff. Um she was newly
divorced. Mother >> Well, hold on. Not to correct you, but that's not when they met. They were they
were friends from childhood basically school friends. >> Well, they they they became engaged at
some point. And I believe this took place at some point in 1971. Uh they weren't married until the
following year, but Carol Huff was a newly divorced mother of two. She had two daughters, right?
>> Um you know, you know, after the fact, people say that Gayy probably romanced
uh this woman who was in a state of emotional vulnerability. Um and that she she fell for him. She she says that she
was attracted to Gasey's charm and his generosity. one, he's a hard worker >> and she believed he would be a good
provider for her and her children. She was aware of Gasey's prison experience. Um yet she trusted that he had changed
his life around for the better. Uh and Carol and her daughters quickly settled into their new home with John Wayne
Gasey. >> Well, and she also knew about what he claimed to be uh him being bisexual. It
was around this same time that John Wayne Gasey decided he wanted to go into business for himself. Um, and he was
going to strike it out on his own. He began a contracting business named PDM Inc. which stood for painting,
decorating, and maintenance incorporated. Uh, he hired young teenage boys to work for him. He told his
friends that he hired such young men to keep the cost low. Uh, which is which is
true. He could hire and pay guys that were 15 to 18 years old and pay them $5 an hour, right? Which was almost double
what kids could make at other jobs at that time. He could pay them well and at the same time he would be paying them
quite a bit less than he would have to pay an adult with a good amount of experience. However, that might not have
been Gasey's only reason for hiring these teenage boys. Well, I mean, and we and we've kind of gone back and forth on
this. Um, because a lot of these documentaries when they talk about Casey, they never bring up the idea of
pedophilia really, you know, it's always just talks about, you know, that he was
attracted to teenage boys >> or young men. They most of the time they say young men.
>> Yeah. And and I think one at the time of all this stuff going around, this is not
a commonly used term. Pedophilia did not become a commonly used commonly used term until the 80s
>> um and probably the late 80s. >> Well, and we talked about that when we covered the Johnny Gosh case. You know,
that the investigators were using the word pedophilia or pedophile and parents were saying they didn't know what that
term meant. They had not heard that term before. And this was taking place in the
early 80s. >> And this was different times. I mean, there was a lot of people that there was
a lot of people that did not even finish high school. They just go straight to work. Mhm.
>> So, we were kind of talking earlier about how maybe they don't use the term pedophilia because back then, you know,
17, 18year-old boy is back then was a man. >> Could have been looked at as in the
public's eye as a man. Because, you know, it seems to me like you have this >> you have this mindset that that maybe of
course 18 is the separation. you know, 18 is the legal divider between a child and an adult. However, but in the
public's eye, in the, you know, the general >> consens consensus I got was that a man
and a boy were more separated by a high school diploma rather than being 18. Because like you said, a lot of times
people would get that high school diploma and they would go work for their father in their father's business or
they would go off on a trade. Uh they would start their own business. They would go into some form of work that
could end up being their career, their adult life. >> Yeah. I think you see this a lot like
with movies like Days and Confused and stuff like that. You graduated high school. It is time. You're entering the
real world. It's time to become a man. >> Mhm. Well, the Gayies threw a lot of parties. Uh and when it came to parties,
well, John Wayne Gasey, he was the man. He he knew what to do. He knew how to throw a great party. Uh he would often
host block parties and yard parties. A lot of them were were themed parties. Um you know he did some things like um I
think he did like a western style party and a southern jubilee and a Hawaiian party. Uh so these big extravagant
parties that he would throw. And anyway at Gayy's parties he always had a lot of
booze, poker games, you know, maybe some pot. And remember we said that he was a
member of the JC's. Well, this is something that carried once he moved back to Chicago. He was a member of the
JC's, but he was also a member of the Democratic party as well. >> Yeah. So, uh, Ted Bundy was a Republican
and John Wayne Gasey was a Democrat. So, that's why I'm an independent. >> But Gayy was able to get more people to
sign up for the JC's and more people to sign up for the Democratic Party than anyone else in the area. and he was up
to his old tactics. uh he was he was even given some awards you know like man of the year awards and things like that
>> and you know he did this uh for his work with the JC's but but also with the Democratic party he was throwing these
extravagant parties but they were also those parties that we talked about before you know where
>> stag films >> yeah it was a lot of booze maybe pot some gambling but it would end up with
these stag films maybe hire some strippers uh some sometimes escorts and things like that.
>> Yeah. And just let's put this into perspective a little bit. This is people in the community getting together,
people of power in the community getting together and being persuaded by Stack Films.
>> Yeah. And other foolishness, >> right? I mean, it's it's that stuff exists. Yeah. That's that's to me is
creepy as hell. >> It's weird. And but again, for Gayy, it's ways to get his membership
enrollment up. Um, and and to me it also shows that some of these newcomers, these newbies seem to be there, in my
opinion, more for these crazy parties rather than to actually be involved in the community itself.
>> Yeah, these animals are probably littering everywhere. >> Well, it's around the same time that
John Wayne Gasey unleashed his new creation, uh, Pogo the clown. He he he becomes a clown. And I know at different
parts during his little clown experiment or whatever he was doing that that he did go under different names, but I
believe Pogo the clown is the most accepted one that that he, you know, fancied himself.
>> Yeah. Most popular one. But hey, Gayy, put on your cup, son. Put on your cup.
>> Well, uh, he, like I said, he unleashed his new creation of Pogo the clown. Ga
John Wayne Gasey was a clown. I'm going to unleash a punch to your nuts. >> He entertained children at parties and
even volunteered at local hospitals, you know, to try to cheer up the kids. And and maybe it's just because what we know
now about John Wayne Gasey, but looking at those pictures, I mean, other than him being fat, you know, other than him
being a a pudgy guy, >> a plus-size >> prison model, >> he still he's still a creepy looking
clown to me. I don't know if it's again I don't know if it's cuz we know about him or if
>> Well, one of the things that I noticed was you know the mouth the way he painted the mouth that most clowns paint
circular mouths uh >> and his had points. >> Yeah, he had points at the end. >> Uh
>> yeah, you'd think but you know and look you'd think you know weight aside you'd
think that maybe you know Santa Claus is jolly >> right? so that maybe they'd be a jolly
clown. But I think because of the points on the mouth is really kind of what gave
it away. And also, you know, John Wayne had these um these pointy eyebrows. >> Mhm.
>> You know, just that he he inherited. So, I think those those two elements is kind
of what makes Pogo a little creo. Mhm. Well, and before we get too far down on another road, let's go ahead and go
through this portion of John Wayne Gasey's life. Him and his wife start having marital problems. And it's
believed that some of this stemmed from her picking up on Gayy's homosexual desires.
>> Now, we had said earlier that, you know, she was aware of his prison sentence.
>> Well, he was aware she was aware of his bisexuality. >> Yeah. and he's pro she's probably aware
of his version of his prison sentence and why he was guilty, >> right? >> Um but yeah, she's aware that he he is
bisexual, but at the same time, you know, she's also finding magazines around the house uh with lots of naked
men in them, uh books about gay fantasies, and he's very casual, nonchalant about kind of leaving these
all over the house and in almost every room of the house as well. But at this >> Well, and I don't think that matters if
it's, you know, homosexual thoughts or just heterosexual thoughts. I think if you're with somebody,
>> there's a lot of times that you'd be offended, you know, like >> if you're just, you know, there's
Playboy magazines everywhere. I think at some point your wife might go, "Hey, can
you just pick this up?" Yeah. >> You know, you got to throw it in my face like this.
>> Well, you have to show respect for your spouse as well as there's the children
that are in the house as well. you know, you can't just you shouldn't just be having these things laying around. But
at the same time, he's also becoming a little more violent. Uh his his personality is changing as far as she is
concerned. >> And at this point, he's yelling a lot. Uh he's he's even throwing furniture at
times when he gets upset. >> He's becoming his father. >> Yes. This sort of thing is what's going
on. And it eventually Carol would file for divorce. Uh the the couple's divorce became final in 1976.
>> So yeah, drinking is getting heavier. He's becoming more violent. Uh he's having more sexual desires. And this is
all going to come to a big flame. >> Yeah. And the two of them have basically no romance between the two of them for
quite some time as well. Now, I wanted to go down that road before we we got to this because we're going to
>> You want to go down the romance road? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I love you, Captain. Now, we're
going to start talking and introducing some new people here. Uh, but these are certainly key persons to this story and
to this case. >> And the first one that I want to introduce is 17-year-old Johnny
>> Bukovich. >> I think he's been waiting all day to say that name. >> Old Buckovich.
>> Uh, but anyway, Johnny worked for John Wayne Gasey. >> That's my last name. And in fact,
Captain Bukovich. In fact, they worked a lot of hours together and they even hung
out together off of the clock. Uh, at one point they are around each other so much and so often that people started
referring to them as Big John and Little John. And Johnny or Little John to some
was like most young men. He was he was into cars. He took great pride in his 68 Dodge. uh not only did he drive it and
race it, but he was always working on the vehicle as well. And having this job allowed him to, you know, work on this
vehicle and spend some money on his car. Uh Johnny did remodeling work for Gayy at PDM Contractors,
>> a position that he enjoyed, a position that paid him well. >> And you also have your boss that's
probably getting you booze >> and you couldn't get booze at the time. >> Mhm. You know, so everybody knows, you
know, when you're 19, 20 and you're trying to get some booze, everybody knows their 21 or 22 year old friend
that would get them booze. >> Right. >> Right. You keep that contact close. >> Right. Even as close as they were,
however, their their working relationship ended abruptly when Gayy refused to pay Johnny for two weeks
worth of work. >> Right. um angered at Gayy uh and angered that he had withheld his pay. Johnny
went over to his boss's house. This was with two friends. To try to scare Gayy and to try to collect his money. Um when
Johnny confronted Gayy about the paycheck, Gayy refused to pay him. And now, of course, we have a large
argument. Johnny threatened that he was going to tell the authorities that John Wayne Gasey was not deducting taxes from
the earnings. Uh Gasey was enraged and he screamed at him and we have this big fight going on. But what ends up
happening is Johnny and his friends basically realized that there wasn't a whole lot that they could do about this
situation. And they eventually >> you're kind of [ __ ] out of luck at this point.
>> Yeah. He's just not going to give you any money. Mhm. >> And um at the end of the day, they end
up leaving Casey's house. Johnny dropped off his friends at their homes and he drove away and then he's never seen
alive again. >> But later on we'll have a odd explanation of this story coming from
Gayy himself. >> Yes. The next person we want to talk about is Michael Bonan. Now he was about
17 years old as well. Um and he disappeared in June of 76. Now, this is a situation where he was supposed to
catch a train. Uh he was going to meet his stepfather's brother at some location.
>> Uh authorities are not certain that Michael ever got on that train. Uh there, but they know that he never made
it to meet his stepfather's brother. He just simply disappeared. He's not seen after that.
>> Right. And now in the same area, >> we have a we have more boys going missing.
>> Yes. Uh the next boy is Billy Carol Jr. Uh he's the kind of kid that was always
getting into trouble. Um at the age of >> Come on, Billy. >> At the age of nine, um he was in a
juvenile home for stealing a purse. >> At the age of 11, he was caught with a gun and he got into more trouble. Um
now, Billy in and out of trouble his whole life. He spent most of his time on the streets in Uptown Chicago. Now, at
the age of about 16, Billy was making money by arranging meetings between teenage boys and adult clientele for
money. >> That's definitely put him in a compromising position. >> Yes. Because I don't know if it was
because of Billy's little business that he had, but he knew John Wayne Gasey. And ultimately, just like Johnny and
Michael that we just spoke of, Billy also disappeared suddenly. This was on June 13th of 1976. Billy left his home
and he was never seen alive again. >> Do we have any other boys that went missing?
>> We have Gregory Godzik. Um he actually had a job with PDM Inc. Uh he worked for
John Wayne Gasey and he didn't mind the odd jobs that he was picking up or the work that he would do. But on December
12th, 1976, uh, Gregory dropped his date off at her home, a girl that he had had a crush on
for some time and and been seeing her for a little bit, and he drove off, she says, in the direction of his house. U,
but the following day, police found Gregory's car. This was a 1966 Pontiac, >> but Gregory was nowhere to be found. Um,
he was he was 17 years old at the time. In January of 1977, 19-year-old John Seek also disappeared, much like the
other young men before him. He had driven off in his 1971 Plymouth satellite, and he was never seen alive
again. But interestingly enough, a short while after the young man vanished, another teenager was picked up by police
in a 1971 Plymouth satellite while trying to leave a gas station without paying for the gasoline.
>> Right. The young man was a one Michael Rossi and said that the man that he worked with could explain the situation.
This being the situation with the vehicle, right? >> Uh the man that he worked with was John
Wayne Gasey. And when police met with Gayy, Gasey explained to the police that Zeke had sold him the car, sold John
Wayne Gasey the car, and that John Zeke wanted to run away and he needed some money to take off and to get set up
elsewhere. So, he sold John Wayne Gasey the car before he hitchhiked out of town. Gayy then went on to explain that
he gave the car to his employee, Michael Rossi, and trade for some labor. So rather than paying him for a bunch of
work that Rossi did, he ends up giving him the car. >> Well, I don't think a lot of this stuff
would have happened if he was like on a sexual offender website, you know? >> Yeah. Some kind of regry,
>> right? Because all the stuff that happened in Iowa is not carrying over to Chicago.
>> No. >> So, so we don't really have that on his record. And obviously cops are getting a
little suspicious at this point. >> Mhm. Well, and and the thing we've seen with Gayy too is yeah, there might be
some people that are aware of this sodomy charge that that he had in Iowa or aware that he spent some time in
prison because the thing with Gayy is he liked to not only did he like to talk to
people, but he also liked to lie and embellish stories about himself. So, I could see him possibly telling some of
these 17, 18 year old boys that, yeah, you know, you know what kind I'm a real man. I've been to prison before, you
know. Um, oh, what were you? But now you got to answer the question, well, what were you in prison for? And, um,
>> I'm a real man because I like real boys. >> Yeah, but but then you get the John
Wayne Gasey version of why he was in prison, you know, embellishing and probably just lying about the situation.
Uh, we also have Robert Gilroy. Um, he was an avid outdoorsman, uh, camper. He loved horseback riding. on September of
1977. Uh he's 18 years old at this time. Gilroy was supposed to catch a bus with
uh some friends to go horseback riding, but he never shows up for this event. Now, Gilroyy's father,
>> that's like the second one that was trying to catch a bus. >> Yeah. Gilroyy's father is a police
sergeant, a Chicago police sergeant at the time, and he immediately began searching for his son. and they un
unleashed a fullscale investigation with big-time searches. Uh, you know, even though they did all this effort, nothing
turned up. And when the leads stopped coming in, Robert Gilroy was still missing.
>> Why this is all going on? John Wayne Gayy has an employee by the name of David Cra,
>> right? Well, according to the documentary, the guy's name is David Cra. >> Now, let's talk about this for a little
bit. >> Go ahead. because you know we both watched a bunch of docos on him and uh
there's just some facts that are just not lining up right >> some of the names some of some of the
stories are the same but some of the names aren't the same >> well you know what I wonder about that
captain is when you when you watch some of these documentaries okay first of all
a a John Wayne Gayy documentary there's a whole batch of them out there I mean there's a ton of them out there, but but
they're typically what, like 40 minutes to maybe 1 hour long. This is a much longer and much necessary to be longer
story to tell than 40 minutes or an hour long. There's a whole lot more of a story here. And the thing that I worry
about with some of these documentaries, we've seen it in other ones, you know, that we see on Netflix and Amazon Prime
and things like that. Sometimes they lump some of these stories together, >> right? And so names get mis, you know,
they get mashed together, timelines get a little bit blurry. Um, >> so, so this story could be coming from
David or it could be coming from, >> it could be coming from, I used the name Michael Rossi earlier. Now the thing
here is Captain um you know the story with Gasey gets even more convoluted because he lived in Iowa for a while and
then he lived in Chicago for a while and a lot of the stuff that he did he did in
both places in both locations right so that makes it more confusing but when you watch there's one documentary in
particular where they name this character David Cra now mind you he is it's one of those situ you know they put
the light behind him he's sitting in a chair his face is kind of darkened out. You can't see his face real well. And
then they just kind of they flash this name David Cra. >> Well, his story goes like this. So
whether it's David or if it's this Rossy character >> or or some other name altogether,
>> right? The the story is that the crawl space. >> Mhm. >> He is originally hired to dig trenches
in this crawl space. He doesn't know why. Now, what can happen in like a half basement, if you have a crawl space, you
can dig out that crawl space and then make your basement a full basement. That's a very tough thing to do, but you
can do that. So, he doesn't really know why he's digging these trenches in this crawl space, but he does there. There's
actually, depending on who you talk to, there's a few different stories as to why Gayy wanted these trenches dug in
this crawl space, >> right? One one of the stories being that there they were going to insert some
kind of pipes that were going to go down and they needed the trenches for pipes.
The other story being that there was a foul odor that was in the house and that Gayy was telling people that it was
coming from this crawl space because it would typically get saturated with water
and water would just kind of sit in there and it would just it would unleash this foul odor throughout the entire
home. and he was trying to rid the house of this of this structural problem that
was going on. >> Right? So, this kid is, you know, he's like 16 years old, 17 years old, digging
these trenches in the crawl space of uh John Wayne Gayy's house. Eventually, he rents a room from him. So, he would come
home and and he he lived there for a short period of time working for for John and doing maybe probably working in
the community for other people as well. But one night he comes home and I I this
just I think super creepy. He comes home and John is sitting there in his pogo outfit.
>> Mhm. >> You know, dressed full clown get up and he's drinking and he's like, "Hey, join
me. Let's have some drinks. Let's smoke some pot." >> And Gayy was a big by this point he's
probably a pretty big drinker. Um, you know, I'd heard stories that he would drink full glasses of vodka and things
like that, >> right? So, he's he's pretty wasted already. He's lit. And David is drinking
with him. And he brings out these handcuffs and he's kind of showing him a trick
like how here's how you put on the handcuffs and here's how you get out of it. Like remember how we talked about
like when you're a kid, you have the fake handcuffs. >> Mhm. And then you have these little like
little switch on them on the side so you can just push that little lever and it opens up. So we kind of talked about
that he probably had two sets of handcuffs and he probably had a trick handcuff like here. See, watch me. I put
on the handcuffs and look, I can get out of it. >> Mhm. >> You try them on. >> So when he goes to try them on, he can't
get out of it. And he said, "Well, how do you get out of this thing?" He goes, "Well, you got to know the trick." He
goes, "Well, what's the trick?" He said, "Well, the trick is you got to have a key, right?" And he starts laughing. So,
he's sitting there in his full clown get up, right? Just laughing like a little kid like,
"I got you. I got you." And now at this point, he's poking him, poking him. I got you. You can't get out. Just acting
like a kind of a crazy person. So this individual that is tied up, he then says,
you know, you got to let me out, you know, and he's still being nice at this point. They're still kind of playful.
Yeah, John's being weird, dancing around with the Poco outfit on, but this guy eventually says, "Hey, look, you got to
let me out or I'm going to kick your ass." >> And this sets Gayy into a rage. Right? Mhm. So now he is fighting
basically for his life against Gayy, but he's in handcuffs and he basically is able to because Gayy
is so intoxicated, he's able to knock Gasey over, grab the key, run to the room that he's renting, get himself out,
he leaves, and a couple days later moves out um of of John Wayne Gasey's house. >> Mhm. The crazy thing to me is, could you
imagine a a big, you know, Gasey wasn't tall, but he was a bigger guy. >> He was he was short and stocky,
>> right? But still a lot of mass. And he's drunk and he goes into a rage. And that's not the creepy part. The creepy
part is you're in handcuffs. >> Yeah. You know, I don't mind u punching you in your face, John Wayne Gayy. If if
you know, but if my hands are tied behind my back, I'm [ __ ] out of luck, you know. Good luck fighting that fight.
>> Yeah. >> It's just every time I hear that story, I've heard it maybe three or four times,
but >> every time I hear it, it's just always just uh hands get a little sweaty.
>> Mhm. Well, here here's another creepy story for you here, Captain. And this took place in May of 19778.
I'm sorry. Uh Chicago, Illinois. A man by the name of Jeff Ringnol. Now, uh he had recently returned from a vacation to
Florida. >> He decided to visit an area called New Town. Um it's a popular area of Chicago
uh because he wanted to check out some of the many popular bars they had there as well as disco clubs in that area.
Now, while bar hopping and walking through the area, he sees a black Oldsmobile. Now, inside the vehicle is a
heavy set driver, and the driver leaned out from the window, and he's complimenting uh this young man on his
unseasonably, you know, how unseasonably tan he is. >> And this sparks up a conversation. Um,
and they continued with some small talk and eventually the driver then asked if Jeff wanted to smoke a joint and ride
around in his car. And they would just ride around town and smoke a couple joints. Well, this sounded like a good
idea to Jeff, so he hopped in the car. >> That sounds like an awful idea. >> They drive off. Uh, they're talking,
they're smoking, driving around when all of a sudden the heavy set driver attacks
Jeff. >> He grabbed him and quickly shoved a rag over his face. Now, the rag was dowsted
with chloroform. Jeff lost consciousness. Now, Jeff was kind of going in and out of consciousness for
quite some time. At one point while he was awake, he could see street signs and you know the car is still moving and
he's trying to see these street signs and try to figure out where the car is going, maybe where he's being taken to.
>> Well, he doesn't know this area, >> right? And and of course, he would only be awake for a short period of time, for
short little spurts of time before blacking out again. On one of these times that he came to the stranger again
grabbed him and covered up his face with this chloroform soaked rag and he passed
out again. At some point Jeff remembers being inside of a home >> and the driver was there and they both
are naked. At one point, Jeff remembered seeing on the floor several several dildos, and the stranger
>> was threatening him and telling him how he was going to use them. >> Uh Jeff,
>> no, >> was viciously raped and tortured for hours. Um, and but thank God that he had
been drugged and knocked out for most of it. Now, the next morning, Jeff awoke from uh from these blackouts, but but
when he wakes up, he's now fully clothed and he's propped up against a statue in
Chicago's Lincoln Park. He was in in a lot of pain, >> an amazing amount of pain. And he went
to the hospital where he ended up staying there for 6 days. >> Jesus Christ. Now, during this hospital
stay, Jeff reported the abduction and the rape to police, but he could only provide the police with a little
information regarding the attack because he was blacking out over and over again.
>> Um, he he could recall the vehicle, a black oldsmobile. it. He gave them a description of the heavy set man that
was driving the vehicle and he could tell them basically useless information about some of the details of the inside
of the house like the the color of the carpeting or patterns on the carpeting. >> Right. Um you're in the city of Chicago.
>> Yeah. And here's the thing. This is this you know you're in a whole lot of pain.
You're in the hospital for 6 days. That should explain to most of us how how beaten up this guy was. He's in the
hospital for six days and you're giving this report and you can you you probably
mad at yourself because you can only remember little bits of information. And the police basically they they outwardly
tell Jeff that they were not hopeful that they would be able to find the guy that did this, let alone convict him of
anything because because really they didn't have any information or much to confirm who this abductor could be.
Jeff suffered several skin lacerations, burns, and he also suffered from permanent liver damage believed to be
caused from the the chloroform. And of course, he suffered severe emotional trauma as well. uh obviously,
>> but he was he was fortunate enough to be alive because what what Jeff didn't know
was that the man who attacked and raped him, well, not many of the people escaped that man and very few victims of
his ever survived. Now, here's one crazy thing, though. After Jeff got out of the
hospital and after he was able to kind of shake off some of this trauma and get over the fear of the whole thing that
had just happened, he decided he was going to go back to that same side of town because it was kind of like a party
side of town. It was it was a place where people, you know, smoke a little dope, maybe you pick up a girl or pick
up a guy, whatever. And he thought, you know what? I'm going to go back to that side of town because he had this he had
this black Oldmobile vehicle that he that he got into. He had the image of that thing tattooed on his brain. He
>> Well, he probably had the the you know, the vision of whoever attacked him. >> Mhm.
>> You know, just if I can see this guy again, I I can catch him. >> Yeah. and he ultimately went back to
that side of town several times uh until he ended up spotting the vehicle that he
believed was the one that abducted him, >> right? >> And he wrote down the license plate and
he was later able to provide that license plate number to the Chicago PD. >> There's a lot more that we have to get
to tomorrow. The complete unraveling of this psychopath, John Wayne Gasey. So join us back here tomorrow in the
garage. And for everything true crime, go to trimegar.com. And until next time, be good, be kind,
and don't litter. [Music] [Applause]

John Wayne Gacy /// Part 1

Episode: 105

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

John Wayne Gacy was liked by most who knew him. He was a sharp businessman who had spent his time building up his contracting company, hosting elaborate parties, and entertaining children at hospitals. People thought of him as a generous, friendly, and hard-working man. However, there was another side that few had ever witnessed... Or at least lived to tell about. For several years John Wayne Gacy viciously tortured, raped and murdered more than thirty young men, who would later be discovered in his home and in the local river. This is the story of a community leader who was called the most hated man in America. He also has earned the name "the killer clown".

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Brief Summary

John Wayne Gacy's life, crimes, and the investigation into missing boys are discussed in detail.

Key points

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Join hosts Nick and Captain as they dive into true crime stories.
The Case of John Wayne Gacy. Explore the chilling case of John Wayne Gacy, a notorious serial killer.
John Wayne Gacy's Early Life. Gacy seemed to have it all—family, a good job, and community involvement—until things took a dark turn.
Gacy's Prison Time. After being sentenced to 10 years for sodomy, Gacy was released on parole after just 18 months.
Gacy's Return to Chicago. Upon returning to Chicago, Gacy sought to prove himself and started a contracting business.
The Parties of Power. Gasey hosted extravagant parties that blurred the lines of community and morality.

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Episode quotes

Keep up the great work, mates.

Rachel from Australia sending encouragement

3:38WatchOct 21, 2025

Tension

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