Springfield Three /// Part 2 /// True Crime Garage | Forensic Files

[music] Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
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>> And that's enough of the business, everybody. Gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer, pitch a tent,
>> and let's talk some True Crime. >> [music] >> Police are working extended shifts
around the clock trying to find Cheryl Levit, her daughter Suzanne Streer, and Suzanne's best friend Stacy McCall. The
three disappeared from this house early Sunday morning. The women had attended Kikapoo graduation ceremonies at
Hammond's student center Saturday night. Suzanne and Stacy had gone to a couple of parties, then returned here to
Suzanne's home. Investigators suspect foul play. The woman's cars were in the driveway. Their personal belongings,
including their clothes and purses, were in the house. There was no sign of a struggle. We are still asking for
individuals that may have had contact with either the McCall girl, Missreer, or Miss Levan to make contact with our
department so we can narrow down the time frames that we're working with as to physically when was the last time
they were seen and known to be safe. >> The FBI is treating the disappearance as
a possible kidnapping. One FBI agent has been assigned to work with local police.
More than 30 Springfield officers have been assigned to the case. >> The Springfield Police Department has
committed all manpower available to the investigation of the disappearance of these three ladies. The investigations
division itself has divided into two teams. Each team working 12-hour shifts. In addition to that, the department's
crisis action team has been assigned to this case along with additional supplemental support out of the uniform
division. Glenn says police will continue to work around the clock until all leads have been exhausted. Dennis
Graves, KY3 Action News. [music] Welcome to day two in the garage. We are discussing the famous case of the
Springfield 3, the disappearance of Stacy McCall, 18 years old. Susie Strereer, 19, and Cheryl Levette, 41.
This is a much requested case. We're just a little less than two months away from the 25-y year anniversary of this
strange disappearance. Where we left off yesterday, we started getting into some
horrible people that could be considered suspects in this case. When discussing leads in this case, we talked about Bart
Strereer as a possible lead, the brother. That went nowhere. We also discussed the boyfriend, Dustin, and his
friends, right? uh who who had some involvement there but but not a whole lot going on. They are still considered
suspects to this day. And we talked about a really bad dude named Steven Eugene Garrison and he kind of falls in
line with whom we're going to talk about today. We have a few people and these are all considered very bad people that
were in the area at the time of the disappearance of the Springfield 3. Right. >> So first up today, let's talk about a
guy named Gerald Carneahan. A St. Louisis County jury convicted Gerald of firstdegree murder and forcible rape for
the death of Jackie John's who was 25. This was 25 years after the fact. I believe he was convicted in 2010. So it
took quite a bit of time. But Gerald Carneahan is now safe from all of us. He's he's stuck in prison. He he was 52
years old when he was convicted. So he'll probably spend the rest of his life in a cell. Thank God.
>> Right. So Jerry Dingleberry is in prison. >> Yes. So Carneahan, by the time he was
arrested and convicted, he was a family man. He and his wife had two daughters. Uh his family has told reporters that
his wife had no idea when she married him that he was he was suspected of these horrible crimes way back in 1985.
After the verdict was read, Baleiffs put handcuffs on Carneahan. His defense attorney asked that he be allowed to
talk to his family one last time. You know, this is nice for Carneahan, but pretty crappy for the rest of us, right?
I mean, when he killed Jackie John's, he certainly didn't give her one last opportunity to talk to her family,
right? So, why should he get this privilege? Well, the judge, Captain apparently, he thinks a lot like you and
I because the judge basically ignored the defense attorney's request, not even answering the defense attorney, and the
baiffs led him out of the courtroom. >> Well, and we're just looking up his picture. I mean, he he he looks
harmless. It looks like a dough boy. >> Well, yeah. >> Oh, sorry. Well, it's believed that
Carneahan raped and beat Jackie John's, who was only 20 years old in June of 1985, and dumped her body in Lake in
Lake Springfield. They started looking at him as a suspect within a week of the murder, but didn't have sufficient
evidence to charge him. He was charged in 2007 after criminalists said DNA evidence in semen found on J's body
matched Carneahan's DNA. And yes, it was it was 2010 when he was convicted. >> Yeah. But at least justice was served.
>> DNA analysis wasn't available obviously in 19 in the early 1990s. The Springfield Police Department got a
grant in 2003 that let it afford to look at cold cases such as this one. The Springfield Police Department tested the
DNA from samples taken from Jackie John's body and car, but it wasn't able to make a a match to any known person.
>> Right. In 2006, the Missouri State Police Highway Patrol got a similar grant for a cold case analysis and again
tested the evidence and got a DNA match to Carneahan. after getting a search warrant to take a swab of his saliva. At
trial, a highway patrol criminalist testified he didn't know Springfield police sent the same seaman evidence to
the lab 3 years earlier, which turned out to be almost a stroke of luck because it's possible the highway patrol
criminalist would may not have even retested the evidence had he known about the previous test. Obviously, he was
such a suspect that years later they said, "Hey, we got to get a warrant to get his saliva."
>> Yes. Yes. He He was the number one suspect. They just had no evidence to convict him. Now,
>> and I bet I bet Jerry Dingleberry was a sweaty dough boy when that was going down.
>> Well, Janice John's Walker, uh, 59, uh, this is Jackie John's oldest sister, talked about the impact of the murder on
her family, and her mother died in 1988 with cancer. But Walker says that that's
not what killed her. Uh saying that her mom grieved herself to death. She would sit and cry and cry and it it took a
toll on her, >> right? >> Uh stating holidays were never the same. Jackie was gone and that really
destroyed the family. It weighed very heavy on all of them throughout the years.
>> So did the dough boy get the electric chair? >> Well, no. They decided not to seek the
death death penalty because Jackie John's father was in extremely poor health at the time when they were
bringing these charges to trial and the prosecuting attorney feared that he wouldn't live long enough to see the
outcome of this trial. So with the family's blessing, they decided to just, you know, wave the death penalty and
move forward with the case >> so he could get some closure. >> He got some closure before he he would
pass on. >> Well, that's good. That that's good news from law enforcement, right?
>> Well, and I tell you what, the thing here that you kind of have to applaud is
they they found their number one suspect. They stuck with him for 25 years and built a case around this guy.
And even though it's justice delayed, it's not justice denied. Um, and the family did get some closure. Uh, here
here's Carneahan's criminal record. All of these convictions are crimes in 1993 or 1994, and he served time for all of
these charges back in the 90s. Uh, first we see seconddegree burglary of a business as well as arson at the same
business. Uh, he was also convicted of attempted kidnapping of a girl in Springfield, assault of a law
enforcement officer, uh, attempted kidnapping and tampering with evidence. In 1993, Carneahan was charged in Green
County with attempting to abduct an 18-year-old girl. Her name was Heather Starky. So, Carneahan's victim type
certainly includes the teenage girls, uh, Stacy and Susie. And, and we see kidnapping and rape charges. These women
obviously were kidnapped. So, so this disappearance of the Springfield 3 fits Carneahan's MMO. Well, but our problem
here is that there are so many people that contaminated the crime scene or where they went missing from that we
can't there's nothing that we can test to compare it with this, you know, Doughboy.
>> Mhm. And and we know that he was living in the Springfield area at the time. He
was he was living there at the time of the disappearance, but really other than that, you know, his MMO and and his
proximity to the crime, you know, being a rapist and a killer, we really have nothing else on on Gerald Carneahan. But
we know he was out. He was a free man at the time and he is certainly capable of
of these terrible things. >> Next, let's talk about Larry D. Wayne Hall. Now, Larry Dwayne Hall, he he is a
twin. He has a brother, Gary Hall. Um, and >> nothing wrong with twins. >> And the two of them lived in uh the
Missouri area. The thing here is though, it it's not so important when you talk about Larry Hall where he lived because
uh he was in he was one of those traveling guys. He he did those Civil War reenactments.
>> Mhm. >> And uh if you look at pictures of him, you see he's got the the mutton chops
there. >> Yeah. His his mutton chops are a reenactment of just a horrible crime on
his face. >> Mhm. [laughter] The main reason that Larry was a suspect, he actually didn't
live anywhere near Springfield, but he had a similar vehicle that matched the description of the eyewitnesses.
>> Yes. Remember we talked about the the Dodge van that the the older woman had reported being a green color. uh the the
paper boy saying it was a brown and then everybody coming forward and next thing
you know it's purple, black, white, tan, every other color in the in the rainbow
or or I don't know if if those colors are in the rainbow. The thing here is though, but he was he was a traveling
guy. He traveled around doing these different Civil War reenactments. Uh a lot of the times he was traveling with
his twin brother. Now, the thing here is exactly what the captain said. His vehicle matched the that van, but but
this Larry Hall guy is an interesting dude because he is actually only convicted of one murder, and this would
be uh his victim was Jessica Roach. She was a 15year-old girl. She was last seen
with her sister Mindy as the two were going to the store in Georgetown, Illinois. Uh her sister said that she
was walking down the road with her bike. When the sister returned from the store,
she called out for for Jessica and she was not there. She got no answer. And a bus driver that was passing by, he did,
you know, he actually saw the bike lying in the middle of the road, which he thought was extremely odd because, you
know, first he probably thought somebody could have been hit. Um, but the thing here is he ends up police police end up
talking to Larry Hall about this >> and it's several years after the fact, but they suspected Hall and many other
possible abductions, disappearances, and murders, but didn't have a whole lot of
evidence other than being able to place him somewhere near the crime scenes. And
so when they talked to Hall about this situation, they showed him a picture of of Jessica Roach
>> and as soon as they showed he's one of these Captain I I hate to kind of go off
on the side thing here, but he's >> a try to just stick to the story, man. I don't I don't really like going off on
tangents. >> He's a really rare breed for me. like when I've seen interviews and stuff with
him, he he comes off like extremely emotional. Um almost like even even almost maybe a little remorseful. And we
don't typically see this with people that that we we throw into this group of having they suspect that Hall may have
killed as many as 30 or 40 people. And and the thing here is when they show the picture of Jessica Roach to Hall, he he
like immediately turns away and he just starts ball like not just crying, he's balling like a baby. And the thing is he
immediately admits to killing her. >> Wow. >> And then on top of that, he in this
emotional state, you know, they kind of broke through the shell when they showed
him the picture. They get him talking and in this emotional state, he starts like confessing to other things. He's
like, "Yeah, I killed her and I killed, you know, all these other girls, too." And but they but then they, you know,
they hit a wall with him in this interview and they can't get any more information about these other girls. He
doesn't name them. He doesn't give them places. Uh really nothing to go off of. It was kind of it seemed to me like he
really needed to kind of get this off of his chest somehow. >> Well, I'm one of the few people that
don't actually believe that most serial killers remember everything of their victims. where a lot of people say most
serial killers can just they can bring up every detail of every killing >> or the majority of them. I I don't
believe that's the case for even as much as 50% of them. >> Um I I go back and forth on that, but
with a person as far as Larry Hall goes, I could see that maybe he doesn't recall
the names because some of these people he may not have known their names, right? Uh a lot of these people he
didn't really stalk. He kind of just would see somebody walking down the street and
>> opportunist >> and pull them off of the road. Yeah. And pull them into his van.
>> Which this always frustrates the [ __ ] out of me because in so many cases like
you take like even Mara Murray for example, like the opportunist killer. We see it time and time again.
>> It is very rare. It is very rare. But yes, we do see this. >> It's not that rare. I mean, we're
talking about Larry right now. Ted Bundy was one, >> right? No. No. But I mean, as far as a
percentage goes, as far as serial killers go, a lot of them are opportunist killers. Okay? But as as a
when you compare it to how many regular people are walking around on the planet,
there's not that many of them. And and what they mean by it being rare is that your chances of you being in a
vulnerable state when you happen to cross paths with that person, I it's mathematically not likely to to to
happen to most of us, >> right? But we know that Larry confessed to one crime, but the other crimes that
he could confess to, there was no names, right, >> or dates or places? So, is he just a
oneanddone type killer, >> or I mean, is this all just kind of horse malarkey? >> Well, here's the thing. When when
reviewing, you know, some some people have gotten together and they've put together a potential victim list for
Larry Hall. Now, I think the numbers could be exaggerated a little bit because when you look into these, when
you look at all 40 of them, there were several of these cases, let's say five or six of them, maybe as many as nine or
10 that you have other suspects in in these cases, >> right? >> The problem with a lot of these cases
that are listed in this 40 is some some of these people have never been found. Uh, which makes things extremely
difficult. uh where I believe that he probably did commit more than one murder. I I wouldn't be shocked if he's
somewhere in like the teens to the 20s because he seems like somebody that wants emotionally he wants to confess
but only for selfish reasons only to to to relieve himself of the burden that he's carrying around. Not because he
wants the not because he wants the recognition of being this prolific serial killer or not because he wants to
actually help anybody else out, but he would give he would give vague details of stuff that he probably could recall.
You know, there there was one situation regarding a disappearance in 1991 uh where he says, you know, when talking
to investigators, he he admitted to picking up a woman in Claremont, which is on the west side of Indianapolis. and
he states that, "You know what? I don't I don't know her name. I never knew her name. Uh all I remember is that she
didn't want to go with me and she had to be forced." Now, he doesn't say that he
he killed her or what he did with her, but they but then they do know that a girl named Georgia Shreve uh 37, she was
last seen in that area almost at that exact time. So, it's a bit of a coincidence, right, Captain?
>> Yeah. My big question though here is that he, you know, Larry's claiming that
he's traveling around with his twin brother Gary. [snorts] First of all, twin brother Gary. Larry and Gary. Hey.
Hello. Don't do that. Don't Don't name your kids Larry and Gary. Not when they're twins. It's not acceptable.
>> Well, and I think I know what you're getting at here, Captain. You You're implying that maybe the two of them were
guilty together in some of these crimes. Right. >> Um they most certainly did travel a lot
together, driving all over the United States. If you look at the crimes that they think that Larry might have
committed, uh you basically could chop the United States in half right down the middle and everything on the east side.
He's about in every other state with a potential victim. Um I do know that Gary didn't attend all of these events with
Larry. Uh so it might be possible that this was something that he did on his own. But you did touch on something
interesting there because that you know it's stated and and you and I both kind of hate this this when they bring this
up, but uh Larry is is stated to have a pretty low IQ. Uh and I think they I think they put his number around 80. And
I do want to >> my caveat to everybody out there, there's different there's different IQ
tests out there. So So different scores mean different things on those tests, right?
>> But what I've seen reported is 80. Now, do we know that that is right? Who knows? But
>> I'm about 65. >> I wonder, you know, it's been put out there that it is it possible that
somebody had to teach this to Larry, maybe when he was younger, you know, may maybe he was a part of an abduction uh
where somebody else was involved and perpetrated the abduction at a young age and this was something that he took a
liking to. Mhm. >> Um I have heard one there's an author that wrote a book on him called I
believe it's called urges and the author refers to Larry Hall as like a savant where he's pretty you know kind of dumb
at everything else but but this might be something that he's worked on and perfected over the years
>> almost as like a autism or >> Yeah. Yeah. Like Yeah. Well, a savant where you're just kind of good at one or
two things. And you know, he apparently is good at if if he is guilty of 30 or 40 people, he's very good at abducting
and disposing of people without getting caught. >> If your mud and chops aren't legit, then
you're a piece of [ __ ] >> Well, and I also want to laid to rest things that, you know, so just so people
are clear that he's not a oneanddone killer, that there is some validity here to that he he could have been involved
in other cases. We have that of Tracy Reitler. Uh she was 19 years old. This took place in 1993. She was a freshman
at Wesleyan University in Marian, Indiana. Now, she was last seen around 8:00 p.m. one night traveling to the
supermarket and she had not been seen again. Now, this was a murder that not only Hall confessed to, but later
recanted the confession. To further more to add more evidence to the possibility
of that, just about eight or nine days later in that same neighborhood, he was he was pulled over because he was
harassing two female students that were walking home. He was and they were scared because this other girl had
already gone missing. They report the situation to a security guard. The security guard tracks down this van and
pulls him over and sure enough, it's it's Larry Hall driving the van. >> Right. Right. Right. The P green.
>> Well, here's here's another situation here, Captain. Okay. This took place in
May of 1994. Okay. Now, Larry Hall is pulled over. >> So, two years after >> Yeah. pulled over by a police officer
after he was trying to coax some girls to get it into his van. And when he's pulled over, they search the van. And
listen to the the unusual items that they find in in his van. They find a spray can of starter fluid fluid,
>> a cotton mask and cotton balls, >> a cotton >> a plastic tarp, some knives, and some
rope. Uh, and the officers also found newspaper articles regarding the disappearance of that Tracy Reerler that
we just previously discussed. >> What's odd about that? Well, it's odd because you could probably spray the
starting fluid into cotton balls or a cotton mask and hold it over somebody's face and
>> right >> subdue them and pull them into your van. Um, it these seems like the
>> when you're driving around in a rape van, what what's odd about finding those
items? >> I see what you're saying. If it very much fits Larry Hall's van. >> All right. So, what happens with this
Larry Hall character? >> Yeah. And I don't want to go through all of the potential victims because we
would be here all day and night. But the [clears throat] thing here is that's interesting is after he is sentenced to
life uh for for the death of Jessica Roach, >> we have a situation where his brother,
remember old G old old G Bear, he comes forward and he starts saying >> that his brother Lair uh is probably one
of the most prolific serial killers that this country's ever seen. that that he believes that that his brother has been
pulling girls and women into the van for for 20ome years. >> Yeah. Well, hey, what way to bring this
up after the fact, jackass. >> Yeah. And >> hey, well, and by the way, I think he's
the most prolific serial killer of all time, and he killed all these women. And guess what? I'm writing a book about it.
>> Yeah. Well, I I might have stretched that a little bit. It was more like 10 or 15 years. But anyway, that that's the
claims that Gary comes out with after the fact. Now, we we have a weird situation here where Larry then
retaliates and he says, "You know what? Um, I'm sick of covering up for Gary for
all these years." >> Oh, yeah. See, what did I say? >> You're exactly right. And at some point,
he's he says, you know, I'm going to have to tell you what actually happened. He also, but the weird thing here is he
actually throws another name into the into the serial killer pool at the same time. He says, "You know what? I kind of
uh some of these murders were committed by a guy and I can't remember the name and and it's fair that I don't because
we don't even know who this guy is or have any evidence on it. >> His name was Mayor. It was Lar Gar and
Mayor. [clears throat] >> This was somebody that would not have been related to them.
>> It was Barry. Larry, Gary, and Barry, >> but he claims that he was with this other person who committed some of these
these murders as well. So, um, a very interesting story regarding Larry Hall and his
>> Well, and you, like you said, with his low IQ, maybe he learned it from somebody. Maybe he learned it from his
his his stupid brother. >> He's interesting because his van fits the description, first of all. Second of
all, >> there would have been two of them. >> Possibly. There could have been two of
them, which would have, you know, I I I think it would be difficult to abduct three women all at the same time. And I
think if you had if it were two versus three, it would certainly be easier uh to pull off in my mind. So that makes
him a very interesting suspect. And he's somebody that uh these the the armchair
detectives should look him up because if you have a a girl that's anywhere from the age of 15 to about 32 of an unsolved
crime in your area and it was took place in the 80s or the early 90s uh and it's
on the eastern half of the United States, there's a good chance that he might be considered a suspect in in in
that in that case. >> All right. I'm I'm so over Larry and Gary. Uh why don't you go paddle your
canoe down the river and uh we'll get back to this case right after this quick beer break.
[music] >> [music] >> All right, and we are back. Cheers everybody. Probably the most interesting
or maybe the let's say someone who looks like a more likely suspect than some of
the other creeps that we have been discussing >> is a guy by the name of Robert Craig
Cox. Now, because of the relentless persistence by Janice, remember that's Stacy McCall's mother, another major and
promising break in the case occurred. A tipster from the state of Florida called
in after seeing the case on the national news and giving the authorities the name
Robert Craig Cox, adding him to the list of suspects. As it turns out, the caller
was the brother of Sharon Zeers, a 19-year-old teenager allegedly murdered in 1978 by Robert Cox.
>> Yeah. And Shannon was on her way home from working at Disneyland or Disney World.
>> Disney World. >> And uh she was abducted. >> Yes. Uh at the time, Robert was in the
vicinity celebrating his recent graduation from basic training to become an Army Ranger. Mhm.
>> Robert Cox was staying with his parents at a hotel nearby. It was quite late that night and Robert headed out on his
own while his parents were wanting to get some rest. Sometime later, Robert returned to the room covered in blood.
His parents rushed him to a hospital. The blood was coming from Robert's tongue, which was partially bitten off.
He told the staff that he bit off his own tongue. Yet, the medical examiners concluded that it's improbability due to
the direction of how Robert's tongue tongue was taken off. >> Two days later, police located the body
of Sharon Zeers, who was reported missing after not returning back home after work. Her body was only about 100
ft from the hotel Robert and his family were staying in. Sharon's body was stuffed into a manhole at a sewage
pumping station. The coroner ruled that she had been beaten on the head about 14
times with a blunt object. Because of the strange story of Robert Craig Cox about his tongue and the connection of
him staying so close to where the body was found, the police interviewed him. He told police that he had accidentally
bitten off his tongue when a big black man hit him during a fight outside of a skating rink. And this rank was really
close to where she used to get cigarettes at like a convenience store. Grocery store.
>> Yeah. It was an all night grocery store and she would often stop there on her
way home from work. Now the thing here is Cox said that after the fight at the skating rink that he drove around in his
car. He got lost and returned to the skating rink where a stranger gave him a lift back to the hotel. Yet no blood was
ever found in Cox's car. The good Samaritan could never be found and deputies working at the rink at the
skating rink said no such fight had occurred. >> The police speculated that Cox had
abducted Zeers, forced her to drive to Sandy Grove, then lost his tongue as he tried to assault her. They said Cox
>> Good for her. >> Yeah. Well, they said Cox, being a well-built army ranger who had just
completed basic training, probably flew into a rage and beat the girl to death. No murder weapon was ever found. Police
were unable to charge him. After this incident, Robert traveled with the army to California where in 1985 he was
charged and convicted on two separate occasions of abduction and assault of women. Well, then that's the sad thing
about this is, you know, when you have these monsters, it's like if they would get caught early, they'd be off the
streets and it would save so many lives. In the first of these two cases in California, Cox stalked a woman and
grabbed her when she got out of her car. He held a knife to her throat. The woman
struggled and then the process in the process badly cut her hands, bleeding all over his car. She persuaded Cox to
take her to the hospital. When police showed up, he fled. The police later found handcuffs and an arsenal of
weapons in Robert Cox's home. In the second case, Robert Cox abducted Gidget Wickham at gunpoint from the Monterey
airport parking lot. From the trunk of his car, he grabbed a duffel bag filled with automatic weapons and survival
gear. Then he instructed her to drive him to the mountains. She escaped after she got Cox to stop by her friend's
house. though. She she talks him into stopping off on the way at a friend's house. And then things, you know, go
badly for Cox. Good for the girls. Uh police arrest Cox after he had held the friend hostage at gunpoint, threatening
to kill this friend uh and then kill himself. >> Well, just let the friend go and uh you
just kill yourself. >> Yeah, that [snorts] that would have helped us all out. Mhm.
>> Well, it was after he's brought up on these charges that Florida, you know, the the authorities there, they're like,
"Okay, well, we have all this circumstantial evidence, but now we really we know what he's fully capable
of." So, Florida was able to indict him for the murder of Sharon Zeer along with
the tongue thing uh and hair and blood samples found near the victim. These were compatible with Robert Cox. Uh Cox
testified that he bit through his tongue during that fight. So eventually, Robert, he was taken to trial in which
he was found guilty. And I actually think that they had a good a really good case here. Uh they also had a bootprint
of his, a map showing convergent paths of the defendant and the victim. Uh the night that she was last seen alive, they
found blood in his motel room, uh blood in her car. Uh but because of unfortunate events, the ruling was
eventually overturned as Cox sat on death row, awaiting execution for the beating death of Sharon Zers. The
Florida Supreme Court decided the that the puzzle had not yet been solved. After all, they claimed that the jurors
were mistaken, and the seven justices ruled that Cox's uh on Cox's automatic appeal that there was not enough
evidence to actually convict him of this. >> Right. Right. >> So, they reversed the conviction.
>> Yeah. How much more do you need? >> You have a picture of him doing it, a video of him doing it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You have >> He's missing a He's missing part of his
tongue. >> You have blood and hair evidence. You have a a bootprint. You have a map
showing that he was, you know, taking a route that that she would have been on. Um, so, you know, after the after this
was overturned, uh, some of the jurors came forward that had originally convicted Cox,
>> and one of them stated, you know, Robert Cox is a killer. Robert Cox killed Sharon Zeers. Uh, Robert Cox will kill
again because you have provided him the opportunity. >> Right. >> And another one said that if he walks,
there will probably be more victims and the blood will be on the hands of those seven justices.
>> Right. But so if the jury is coming out and saying all this stuff and and so these justices are coming like who got
to them? >> Who got to the justices? Somebody had to get to them, right? >> Yeah. I I don't know. I don't know how
this whole thing went down. It really makes no sense to me. Like I said, >> well, maybe he has uh like a father of
power or something. >> Well, like I said, I thought they had a really good case there. Uh he did end up
serving some time, you know, because he was waiting there on death row during the process of his appeals, right?
>> Um but what happens is after they overturn the case, they then have to send him back to California to serve
time for those crimes uh that he committed before he went to Florida. before he went back to Florida. Sorry.
>> Right. One of the things that was pretty interesting to read was how he wasn't
that popular with the inmates uh because he had that, you know, just the piece of
the tongue missing. >> Mhm. Yeah. And well, see afterwards, Robert Cox is released and moved in 1992
where his parents were living, which was Springfield, Missouri. >> This is just months prior to the
disappearances of the three women. The Zeer family still mourning the loss of their daughter and the release of
Robert. They were keeping tabs on any news relating to him, >> right? >> And that's why they reached out to they
reached out to Stacy McCall's mother years later after this hit the national news. Now, while living in Springfield,
Robert had a few jobs. Uh during his time in the area, he was employed as an underground utility worker on the south
central side of town. M >> uh this is an occupation that many believe could help him con his way into
an unsuspecting person's home, >> potentially kidnapping them. Uh he was also a mechanic at a used car lot. And
the interesting thing here, Captain, is this is where Stacy McCall's father was working. Uh, the McCall family believes
that it is it is quite possible that Robert Cox would have seen Stacy when she visited her father at his job.
Robert was interviewed and he was questioned by police and he had an alibi for the night that the Springfield 3
went missing. >> What was his alibi? >> His girlfriend confirmed that he was with her that entire evening and night
and that they had attended Sunday morning church services the following morning. This sounds like a bunch of
>> Well, here's here's the thing here. >> 3 years later, in 1995, Robert was arrested in Texas for holding an armed
weapon to a 12-year-old girl. Since then, he's been serving a life sentence for aggravated robbery in the state of
Texas. Now, later, Robert's girlfriend, back from 1992, now his ex, spoke to the
Springfield Police Department, and she recanted her entire statement about his alibi. She's stating that Robert had
threatened her and told her what to say if they came forward and questioned her.
>> Of course. Right. And then, you know, she also claimed that he wasn't, you know, that good in bed because of the
half tongue thing. >> Oh, wow. [laughter] Uh, the thing here is though, police have stated more than
once that Robert Cox should be the prime suspect in the case of the Springfield 3.
>> Yeah, definitely. Now, in an interview with Springfield police, Robert said, "I
can't tell you that said,"I can tell you that I know that the three women are dead and the person who committed the
crime had experience and that they are buried somewhere close to Springfield." >> Well, here's what we do know. We know
that he's capable of it >> 100%. >> We know that he was 100 uh we know that he was in the area.
>> Yep. >> Right. And uh we know that he's lying about the alibi. So you're creating an
alibi. Anytime you create an alibi, I don't like that. >> Yeah. And the weird thing here is that
after the girlfriend states that, you know, you know, she says, "He threatened me. He threatened me and I had to say
this." Well, then very quickly his parents rush to his defense and say, "No, no, no, no. He was with us that
night." >> Right? >> Um, so this guy's got an answer for everything. But I can't believe either
alibi uh when we see the first one very quickly fall through and then the parents rush to to his defense. Where
were the parents if if they are correct about their dates? I I do believe he stayed with them from time to time, but
I don't believe that they're correct about their dates because where were they when he was originally questioned
about this? Now, regarding >> Well, well, here hold on a second because here hear me out. If you're a
parent, listen to this. The captain's going to give you a little parenting advice. If your son
>> Don't you tell me how to raise my kid. >> Yeah. No, hear me out. This is good
advice here. Here it is. If your son or your daughter is a is a piece of [ __ ] douche canoe, right?
>> Right. >> T-shirts for sale on the website. >> Shameful. If if that is the case and they murder
somebody and there's enough evidence to lock their, you know, bastard ass up in jail for a long time and then then a
couple stupid white guys. I'm betting they're white. White. >> Oh, I thought you were talking about us.
>> Well, we are stupid and white. Um, but if they let you go, as the parent, I understand that you don't want to have a
murdering kid. I I understand that you don't want a piece of [ __ ] douche canoe
kid, but you don't take them back. >> You're exactly right. >> You go, "Stay the hell away from me."
>> Yeah. >> I You're I don't know what happened. >> Yeah. And I don't want you to live into
my house either, you know, or furthermore, down the block from me. I mean, yeah, it the murder the thing is,
you know, you you think your kids are good people. Most people think their kids are good people until you're on
trial for murder, but the murder does get overturned. However, we still have those two cases in California. This
guy's guilty of something. We know that. And and the thing is, son or no son, I'm
a live and let live person. And I try to give people second chances and I try to
be forgiving of those around me when they make mistakes. The problem here is >> I don't want this animal living with me.
I don't want anything to do with this guy. And furthermore, I'm not going to lie for you to keep your ass out of
prison. Yeah. And when your son talk like that because he only has half of a tongue, the guy is guilty. Okay. That
that poor girl was beat to death and in the process she took half of his tongue.
>> Well, right. Okay. >> Sorry. But regarding the statement that he gave to police about that, you know,
stating that he knew that the three women were dead, that he believed that the person that committed the crime had
experience and that they were buried somewhere close to Springfield. Those are all very kind of vague
statements and very cocky statements in my opinion. The police did take these statements of course very seriously and
still do, but also they have reservations on the validity due to Robert toying with authorities with
numerous lies and his constant attention seeking. >> Yeah. And he did an interview, you know,
his question and there was an interview, I think the 48 hours or the disappeared
or whatever had a little bit of it. >> I wanted to see the whole thing. >> Yes. >> I'd like to know more of his story.
There there's been a local reporter that has covered this and I can't think of her name, but she's done a lot of good
work on this case for many years now. Like I said, we're coming up just two year two months away from the 25-y year
anniversary. She's done a lot of good work on this case and I believe it was an interview with her that she conducted
and that's where he stated, you know, I know that they're dead and I know that they're buried somewhere around
Springfield. Mhm. >> Uh, you know, why I I partially why I say that those are vague statements is
being so far away from, you know, time-wise from the crime, it's very likely that all three of them are dead.
It's probably most likely >> and it's probably likely as well that they're buried somewhere around the
Springfield area. Uh, this is where you you wonder if he's just he's just an attention-seeking
jerk, you know, because it's like, oh well, if they're found buried, >> you know, you know, months or years from
now around the Springfield area, then everybody's going to go, "Yep, that Robert Cox, he he did it. He did it or
he knows all about it." Uh, and he he seems to like the attention. He likes being interviewed. He likes talking to
people. He likes throwing out these shocking statements. >> Yeah. But like like we said, there's all
these things that kind of line up and to to think in this small town to have this
kind of disappearance of three people, three women in the middle of, you know, in the middle of the night disappear
into thin air basically. >> Mhm. >> And you have this animal running around >> and he just was just recently there.
It's just seems to be too much of a coincidence. Well, and the other thing, too, is I mean, look at look at his MO
on three different occasions. Okay, let's say he's only guilty of the two that he was actually convicted of, but
on those two occasions alone and the third one that he suspected of in Florida, he was basically driving around
looking for a victim. It's not too far-fetched to think that maybe he was driving around and saw Stacy McCall
driving that night or saw Susie Streer driving that night and followed him back to the house
>> or when they were walk they were walking around at some point too. I also think
the thing is like we said with his occupation he has you know chances are he was driving some kind of van
>> and then also by working at the used car lot he had would have access to other
vehicles as well. Well, at the time he was just working the one job as the utility worker, but you're right, he
would have he would have used a van for that type of job. He regardless, he would have had access to his own vehicle
or his parents' vehicle from living with them at the time. Uh, the thing here too, talking about his sort of shocking
statements, there are reports out there that say that Robert has said that he will tell the truth about Cheryl,
Suzanne, and Stacy once his mother passes away, but he doesn't he won't do that until she passes away because he
doesn't want to cause her grief or severe disappointment. >> Well, we can make that happen. Just let
me know where that [ __ ] is. >> Well, here's a news flash to you, Mr. Robert Cox. You're serving life in
prison in the state of Texas. Guess what? It's too late, buddy. You've already caused your mother plenty of
grief and plenty of disappointment. >> I shouldn't have called her a [ __ ] >> Now, yeah, it's not her fault that he's
a monster. The thing here, but the thing that I don't like about her is that if they're trying to cover up for his ass,
I mean, maybe they're telling the truth, saying, "Hey, we were with him that night." Well, then he has an alibi.
Congratulations. >> But, well, they're either lying or mistaken. You know what I mean? I doubt
that that it's the truth. I just don't I don't my gut tells me it's not the truth
there. Uh but I do want to be certain to throw this out that regarding the statements about his mother passing away
and that he's holding withholding information until she does. Uh those statements cannot be confirmed. Those
are those have been kind of rumored statements. >> Right. And based off those statements,
uh we've had some a lot of people kind of looking for where maybe they could be buried.
>> Yes. And this is actually something that they came up with through the tip line.
And they've received multiple tips about this over the years that indicate that the bodies of Cheryl, Suzanne, and Stacy
are buried underneath the southside parking garage of Cox Hospital. Uh, which, you know, was being built within
the timeline of their disappearance. Uh, just to throw this out there, I don't think that that we need to, but you
know, it's the Cox Hospital. We were just talking about Robert Cox. >> Coincidence. It's not his hospital. Just
happens to be the same name. >> Yeah, it's a creepy coincidence. >> In 2010, a reporter using her own money
hired a mechanical engineer with a very respectable resume and track record. >> Uh he specialized in using radar to scan
underground. Uh sure enough, the tips that were coming in, you know, that said that various people might have been
buried in the area, uh they may have panned out a little bit because while scanning the garage, the engineer
noticed three anomalies. Uh sadly though, he couldn't definitively say if they were actually bodies or not, only
that they resembled things that he had found in graveyards before when scanning graveyards.
>> Yeah. And they actually took up a petition on this, right? Yeah. Signed a petition. Well, because there's a lot of
people in the area that want the they want someone to to do the work and go down there and figure out if these are
in fact bodies. Now, the police, they are still skeptical and they are not entirely convinced enough to take
samples uh from the concrete to help further the investigation in this specific area and would rather not cause
destruction to the property of a very busy hospital. Well, it couldn't be that expensive. And I think you look, if you
dig it up and you don't find anything, fine. Okay. You know, you made a mistake. It cost you a little bit of
money. And maybe they could take up a collection for people willing to help pay for that. I think the but at least
you'd get answers. >> Mhm. The thing here is I'm not certain I don't have an idea of how much it would
cost. Uh, I looked at the scan reports that they put out and I and I'm uncertain of how deep these anomalies
were. Uh, but it it seems to me like depending on the depth that you might be able to just drill a hole
>> and pull samples from from that hole possibly rather than digging up the whole area.
>> You're exactly correct. >> Well, thank you. Uh, the thing here is like I said, you know, a lot of people
in the area want this to be done. M >> and furthermore, there have been people come forward and said, you know what,
I'll pay for it. You know, including the engineer and this reporter said, you know, we'll use our money. We'll, you
know, we'll we'll donate our time as well and and pay for this for the city to have it conducted.
>> Well, because you have the family, you know, this is tragic event for the family for one. So, you need closure for
them and family and friends and all that stuff, but closure for the community. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cuz once this
happens in '92, I mean, people start locking their doors more. People not so friendly.
>> Well, not only that. I mean, the crime the crime as far as it's concerned on a
national level, it's often referred to as the Springfield 3. It's the the the case is damn near named after your city.
>> Well, now I feel bad for calling that, you know, Springfield 3 on our show. >> Should have made up a different name.
>> That's on your head, my friend. The thing here is though, Captain, um you know, we this is a very strange
disappearance to me. We we have a crime scene where there's no evidence. It seems like nobody saw anything. I do
feel like that there's a lot of good suspects, a a lot of good candidates that are possible abductors. I think
that we've talked about um you know, most of them, right? Uh, one thing I do want to point out, kind of a side note,
that on September 27th, 1997, all three women were declared dead by the state of Missouri. And I guess this
is kind of a state law that uh 5 years after someone goes missing, the state can then declare that person dead. So
their their official date of death would be listed as June 8th, 1997. Now, some of that has to be done because of you
have like probate courts and things like that. When people pass away, you have next to kin and things that can't go
into the proper order until someone's legally declared dead. >> Um, unfortunately, with it being almost
25 years since the case, I think we're probably talking about three murder victims here.
>> Uh, I I I I don't know worldwide how how long it goes. I believe I I remember
reading about somebody being returned or found 24 years 23 or 24 years after being abducted or held captive. So, it's
possible. It's possible, but it's been a very long timeline uh for these women to
have been just disappeared, you know, in hopes of finding them. Well, and I think
it's it's very sad when you have two teenage girls, you know, becoming young females and and what what they would be
able to do with their life and then you have this this mother that just recently
became a single mother and she seemed to be, you know, kind of a person that was,
you know, take charge. I'm going to take this uh this little tiny house that's maybe a little bit beat up and I'm going
to fix it up and I'm going to do something with my life empowering. I think anytime there's an empowering
women, it's a good thing. And uh somebody took that away from us and and away from our community.
>> So my thoughts here on this case, Captain, my initial thought when I looked at this was it looked to me like
somebody that knew uh the either the girls or the mother. >> And I'll tell you why I really thought
that. Because at first of first of all, we see no signs of of of forced entry into the home. It's almost as if
somebody knew how to get into the home or was let into the house. Um, the other thing that really made me kind of back
up that initial thought that it was somebody that knew them was the was the strange and lewd phone calls after the
fact. And the reason why is because when I hear that somebody had just recently moved into the home, I didn't think that
it was easily accessible to find their phone number and that that therefore it would have had to been somebody that
knew the situation of the house >> would have been led into the home knowing that a man or men did not live
there as well as knowing the phone number that could have been unlisted because they had just moved in. The
problem is we we did later learn that Stacy McCall's mother found the address and the phone number in the phone book.
>> So, [clears throat] uh you know, somebody that did not know them could have gained access to the house somehow
by conning their way into the home or being a utility worker claiming that you know, I don't know that you could say
your power's out because they probably flipped on a light when they came and heard the knock at the door, right? Um,
but the thing here is the other thing that threw me off was was the phone calls afterwards because
you think what kind of weirdo commits this horrible crime and then would want to potentially get themselves caught
because they're calling after the fact. >> And then the more and more I got to thinking about it, the less that seemed
unlikely. And and I'll tell you why. Because, you know, we covered back in episode 35, we covered Dorothy Jane
Scott, >> and remember, she received phone calls all the way up to her abduction, and
then her family still received phone calls many for four years, I believe, after the abduction. In that same
episode, we talked about a victim named Amy Bilick, and her family received phone calls for like 20 years after she
disappeared with the Long Island serial killer. It's believed that he used the victim's own cell phone to call the
victim's sister and make threatening phone calls to her after the fact. So, I don't think it's that crazy. You know,
when I first looked into this, I thought we were probably looking at this ex-boyfriend and his friends as being
good suspects because there were three of them and they seem to have some kind of motive and might have been able to
get into the house, right? >> They would have known that there was no man there. Um, the other thing too is I
also wondered if it was somebody a little more that that less that didn't have an axe to grind. I wondered if
maybe they hadn't changed the locks when they moved in that if somebody would have had a key and knew that women lived
there and they were some sicko and decided, well, this is an easy target for me,
>> right? The thing here is though, the more that I look at this, I feel like a guy like Robert Cox kind of fits this
case better than somebody that knew them. I think I personally think that if it wasn't somebody that knew the
victims, I think that we might have the the the main guy or guys on our list that we talked about today and
yesterday. And I think a guy like Robert Cox could have saw one of those young attractive women driving around or
walking around like you said, followed them back to the house. And it may be something as simple as two girls coming
in late at night. One of them didn't lock the door and he sits outside and he waits for all the lights to turn off and
he waits 45 minutes or an hour afterwards. Probably assumes that they've all gone to bed by this point
and can catch them off guard. and he happened to go up to the door and it happened to be unlocked. He let himself
in. Turns on the TV to create some kind of white noise effect. Or maybe that has
something to do with the dog. I can't figure that part out. The lining up of the purses is weird to me, too, because
I can't fully grasp if that was something that was done by people that just happened to walk into the house
afterward. You know, that could have been the police said maybe nine or 10 people were in there,
>> right? or all the girls put put their purses together for whatever reason. >> But but it's still weird to me because I
believe that all three purses were in one bedroom, which would be weird that the mother would leave her purse in the
daughter's bedroom or the daughter leave it in the mother's. To me, it almost strikes me as,
>> you know, like when you sometimes when if these guys when they're in there trying to gain control of a situation,
they have to kind of calm down their victims. And and one thing that sometimes they will do is claim like,
"Well, I'm just here to rob you. I'm not here to take you anywhere. I'm not here
to do anything terrible to you. So, let's get I need everybody to get their purses." You know what I mean? That kind
of thing. Now, we know that the purses weren't ransacked because there weren't keys taken. There weren't money taken.
It it's been reported that maybe up to $700 was in Cheryl's purse, right? >> And that's the other thing why I think
that these three boys didn't did not do it. They they couldn't stop themselves from selling gold teeth for $30 to the
pawn shop, right? I don't think that they would have between the three of them been able to stop themselves from
rifling through the purses and taking cash money. >> Yeah, one of them would have.
>> Yeah. >> Well, and maybe the TV too was just turned on for for light. >> Yeah.
>> I mean, like couldn't find a switch or whatever. And the busted uh front porch
light always gets me >> is weird. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, this Cox guy, it's like I I
want to call him something. Mhm. >> You know, it's I I don't know what it's called. It's It's right on the tip of my
tongue. >> Yeah. I don't really think with the three boys I don't Look, just because
you're able to steal stuff from a grave doesn't mean that you're able to actually kill and and and bury three
individuals. Uh I I don't know. But I think this Cox character I wish he'd come forward and say more and uh you
know maybe he will one day and maybe the community and the family members will get some closure cuz like I said I mean
it's just it's you know it's tragic that it's women but also women that were just
in their prime of of really creating a life and a future for themselves. Well, the thing here is too what I would like
to see happen is I would like to see law enforcement really stay on to Larry Hall
and his brother Gary Hall, not just for the sake of this case of the Springfield
3, but it looks like Larry's certainly guilty of a lot of other things that we are yet to know about. And he seems like
he somewhat wants to talk and get some of this stuff off of his chest. He's he's confessed to things, recanted. He's
confessed to things where he's not given names or places or dates. I think at some point if you pressure this guy long
and hard enough that I think that he will open up and talk and maybe we can get some of these get some closure for
the families and get some cases off of the books. The other thing too is don't forget about the brother Gary. He seems
to want to talk even though he's throwing all the blame on his brother Larry. Let's let's get him to talk as
well because maybe he can help us out even even if Gary's not guilty of anything. maybe he can help us out with
with cases involving his brother. >> And to the brother and to all the families really, we're we are sorry for
your loss and and hopefully one day we'll get closure and and I don't understand why the police department
wanted to say, "Hey, look, we're going to do testing on this concrete and at least uh to figure out if this is yes or
no >> and so that they can move forward and like I said, the community can move forward as well." All right, recommended
reading for this week. For this week, we are recommending Warnings Unheated by Andy Brown. Uh, this is really an
incredible story. Andy Brown tells the true story that he lived. This is the true story of a law enforcement officer
who kills a mass murderer and then he tells us the fascinating details and the twisted circumstances that brought the
two of them together on that fateful day. You have to check out Warnings Unheated by Andy Brown. There is really
no other book out there like this. It's Warnings Unheated by Andy Brown. And you
can pick that up by going to true crimegar.com and click on the recommended page. We have all of our
books that we're recommending there. And you can purchase those through the Amazon banner. All right. It's getting
hot in the garage. >> Hot in the hot tub. >> Thank god it's warming up though. It's
getting hot in the garage and the captain needs to cut the grass. [laughter] >> I'm not cutting the grass. That's what
you cut the grass. >> All right. We want to thank everybody for joining us in the garage this week.
And until next week, go buy the douche canoe shirts and be good. Don't be a douche canoe and buy
>> be good. Well, >> well, don't be a douche canoe and buy the douche canoe shirt.
>> That's right. And until next time, be good, be kind, don't litter. [music] [music]

Springfield Three /// Part 2 /// 98

TrueCrimeGarage.com

High school graduation is to be a time of celebration. Thinking of the memories created with friends over the years and an acknowledgement of accomplishments. June, 1992 - Suzanne Streeter and Stacy McCall just finished high school and planned to spend the first few days of summer with friends. They stayed the night at Suzanne's mother's home. Sometime between 2:30am and 8am the three women disappeared. They are suspected to have been kidnapped and murdered. Outside of several possible serial killers living in the area police are left with very few leads. Tonight we examine the very strange disappearance of the women that now are known as the Springfield Three.

Beer of the week - Spotted Cow by New Glarus brewingGarage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

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Brief Summary

The episode covers the Springfield 3 case, examining suspects and the impact on victims' families.

Key points

The Disappearance of the Springfield 3. Three women vanish after a graduation party, sparking a massive investigation.
Gerald Carneahan's Conviction. After 25 years, DNA evidence leads to the conviction of a murderer.
Larry Hall's Emotional Confession. A suspect breaks down and admits to killing a girl, hinting at more victims.
Larry Hall's Criminal Profile. Larry Hall is suspected of multiple abductions across the eastern United States.
Cox's Conviction Overturned. Despite strong evidence, Robert Cox's conviction for murder was overturned by the Florida Supreme Court.
Robert Craig Cox's Alibi. Cox's alibi for the night of the Springfield 3's disappearance raises suspicions.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

No douche canoe shirt for you, my friend.

Humorous remark about merchandise.

2:38WatchDec 22, 2025

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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