Shaker Heights - Episode 5: The Crucible | Forensic Files

[Music] [Music] thank you foreign welcome to Shaker Heights episode 5. The Crucible
flitting floating falling on the ground I freeze on children's eyelashes and blur their altered vision of the
world they see a different Earth than I of candy and playgrounds and eternal smiles
I see the truth cold bare trees stripped of life and hard ground that poem was written by a 16 year old
girl named Lisa Pruitt not long before she was stabbed 21 times and Left for Dead behind her boyfriend's house and
Shaker Heights Ohio in September of 1990 in the hours after her murder a small group of close friends gathered away
from their parents away from the police and made up their minds that the person who committed this crime
was the weird kid in school the kid who wore Metallica t-shirts Kevin Young one by one they went to police and
pointed the finger at Kevin and although there was not one piece of evidence linking Kevin to the crime
scene regardless of the fact that he had an alibi the Small Town police were taken by the children's stories and they
decided Kevin young was their best suspect a tragedy was playing out in real time
just outside of Cleveland and the name of that tragedy was The Crucible on September 26 1990
several detectives from Shaker Heights traveled to Ohio State University where Kevin young was beginning his freshman
year because of what happens next Kevin Young's life will be quite short he will never hold down a real job or
have any long relationships with women no family of his own he will die at the age of 44. in 2017.
the detectives have consulted with FBI profilers who explain how they could extract a confession from Kevin
speak to him late at night they said bring lots of candy and soda be good cops try to make friends with him
let him feel safe And So It Goes [Music] foreign [Music] 26 1990. deputy chief Jim rossias detective
Sergeant Dan Velardo Detective Tom kahanski officer Ben Hur secretary Roz and I drove to Ohio State University
we arrived in Columbus about 6 pm and met with Captain John Petri and detective Jim younger of the Ohio State
University Police Department also present were detective Sergeant Tim Reed and detective Tim Ward who had gone
to Columbus earlier in the day the campus police assigned one of their officers to watch the dormitory to let
us know when Kevin young came in we plan to make contact with Kevin about 8 pm we then went to the Ramada Inn to get
settled and have dinner as of about 8 PM the Columbus Police had not located Kevin one of their officers called the
phone to Kevin's room asked for Kevin and was told he was not in this officer then set up surveillance on
Kevin's room about 9 pm we decided to return to the police department upon our arrival detective younger
explained that one of his undercover officers has just located Kevin Young he explained that this officer was
addressed as a maintenance man and was cleaning a trash room that gave him a direct view of Kevin Young's dorm room
this officer had just reported that Kevin had left his room gone down the stairs and returned with a pop he added
that Kevin was wearing a blue Woodberry run t-shirt I followed detective younger
to the dormitory Rob house is one of the dormitories and moral Tower located on the campus at Ohio State University
detective younger and I entered the third or the main floor this is the only entrance and is staffed by students who
provide security and limited access to the building detective younger identified himself as
campus police and we went up the elevator to the fifth floor there we met with the campus police
officer who had seen Kevin young he told us that Kevin's roommate and a girl had
just left but that Kevin was in the room the door to the quad dorm room number 550 was open as was the door to Kevin's
room which was 554. the open hallway door entered into a small living room type area
to the rear of this area were four doors each leading to a dorm room shared by two students detective younger entered
the quad dorm room through the open door and knocked on the doorway to Kevin's room
I waited outside in the hall where I could both see and hear detective younger detective younger displayed his
badge identified himself as a campus police officer and told Kevin that someone was here to talk to him Kevin
said to ask him in and detective younger said it was private and suggested they step out in the hall and away from his
roommates it should be noted that we had selected the hallway because the room to
the other quad dorm rooms were all closed no one was in the hallway and Kevin's other roommates were in their
rooms with their doors open Kevin said he needed to get off the phone Kevin young and detective younger then
walked into the hallway I introduced myself as Tom Gray from the Shaker Heights Police Department as I
said Shaker Heights Police Department Kevin said the words with me Kevin nervously said he had been
expecting to hear from us I told Kevin that I had been interviewing a lot of people who had
information about Lisa Pruitt I added that rich mullaney and Jim brosis had told me that during his first interview
he had offered to come in whenever necessary to help us with the case I told him that since I needed his help
I thought it made more sense for me to come to Columbus invited us into his room
I told him that I thought it was private and best be done away from his roommates
I added that I had asked detective younger to get me into the building because that would attract far less
attention than the Shaker Heights Police I went on to tell Kevin that we could use a room at the campus police
department and he appeared to get very nervous I then told him I was staying at the
Ramada Inn about five minutes from campus and that we could use my room Kevin agreed and said he just needed to
get some shoes and call home he dialed the phone that put it down got his shoes and asked if he could call
later I told him he could call home whenever he wanted detective younger Kevin young and I
walked towards the elevator Kevin said that the stairs were faster so we walked down the stairs
detective younger got into his Auto and we went on to other duties Kevin and I got into 6782 and unmarked Shaker
Heights police cruiser during the drive Kevin and I did not talk about the case instead we discussed college life
dormitory life and classes he mentioned that he was glad to be at school and that it was an opportunity to begin a
new life he explained that he had not decided on a major but was interested in business
he added that his real interest was in economics and we talked a little about economics the Adam Smith Foundation he
started in high school and Mr Fabrizio his high school economics teacher we discussed the adjustment to college
classes Kevin said it was an easy transition because what he was doing in college was a review of what he did in
high school he said he tested out of enough credits that he will be a sophomore mid-year
he also talked about the honors program in Ohio state that he is currently enrolled in Kevin and I arrived at the
motel about 9 45 pm we parked by door number two and took the elevator to the fifth floor
room 520 was around the corner to the right as we exited the elevator as we entered the room Kevin remarked
that it was a nice room he mentioned calling home and asked if he could wait until after we finished
I told him he could call what he wanted and offered to let the city of Shaker Heights pay for the call
I suggested you have a seat and make himself comfortable he sat in the seat on the couch nears
the window as I sat on the other end of the couch there was a loud noise like a helicopter
from outside Kevin asked if we could close the windows I got up closed both sliding doors and
turned the air conditioner on low I begin by explaining to Kevin that I spent the last two weeks talking to
people and gathered as much information as possible in an attempt to figure out what happened to Lisa
I told Kevin that I needed some insight from him in addition to just discussing his involvement
Kevin said he was eager to cooperate in any way that he could I told Kevin that this trip to Columbus
was important to me I explained that we were under pressure from the media and there were some loose ads and questions
I had about his involvement with the case Kevin responded with a few comments about how bad the television stations
are and how bad he felt about what they did to Dan he added that he would like to resolve
this before the media gets a hold of the story Kevin asked how long we would be and I told him I wasn't sure I explained
the cabinet since I came to him for help he could decide when he was ready to stop talking and I would take him back
to his dormitory he mentioned that he had an eight o'clock class but added that he was a night person and we could
take our time we discussed his class schedule and the classes he was taking I offered Kevin a
pop and he chose a Coke from the can whoops I offered I offered Kevin a pop and he
chose a Coke from the can the only way I drink it I then reminded Kevin that I was a
police officer that I was investigating a crime mm-hmm I then reminded Kevin that I was a police officer and that I
was investigating a crime in which he was still a suspect Kevin said that detective mullaney had
explained all that to him I told him that he had a right to remain silent and didn't have to talk to me
Kevin said he wanted to help I told him that we could stop or take a break whenever he wanted
he said he knew that as I started to explain that he could talk to an attorney Kevin interrupted me
and said that he understood his rights he explained that detective mullaney had explained all his rights and that he
signed a paper that he understood I asked Kevin to tell me what he thought about the incident
Kevin replied that as he told detective mullaney he was afraid that tax Ken Workman had done it and what scared him
even more was that text might have done it for him Kevin went on to explain that he didn't know
how he could live with the guilt if Tex had done it for him I asked Kevin why techs would do it for him and Kevin
replied that he Kevin had been at Arabica on Thursday when tax came in Kevin said he remembers that at the time
he was sitting alone at a table and was real upset about a good friend of his that had been sent to the Middle East
Kevin said he remembers texts coming in sitting at a table with him and saying something about going over to Dan
dryford's and that Lisa was coming over he remembers that Tech said something about hating to be around when Dan and
Lisa are together I then asked Kevin why he thought Tech would do this Kevin replied that Tex
knew that he Kevin had a crush on Lisa for a long time even though Kevin insisted the crush was over
Kevin out of the text was also worried about having an alibi for Thursday night Kevin explained that he was feeling
extreme guilt even thinking about the possibility that text might have done this for him I asked Kevin who he was
friends with that went to the Middle East and Kevin said it was Emmanuel Robinson
he then went on to explain that Manny was not really a close friend just someone he went to high school with
Kevin added that he really didn't even know if Manny was there but that he had heard that from other friends
I asked Kevin if Manny went into the service right after high school he explained that Manny and he had just
graduated together and that he didn't know Manny very well Kevin added that he only spoken to Manny
a couple of times throughout High School Kevin said it just scared him that a kid
his age was going to come back Dead from the Middle East Kevin went on to talk about the draft
and how because of his January birthday he would be one of the first kids drafted
he explained that they were going to start the draft next year by drafting 19 year old kids I asked Kevin what he
thought about the draft and he said he didn't really think they would do it Kevin then went on to add that he
thought the draft was unfair since they spent all that money all those years on a volunteer army
Kevin added those volunteers and reserves knew their risks when signed up and that they should not need a draft
Kevin pause as if in deep thought and I told him I remembered worrying about the
draft in high school and that they stopped the draft of the year I graduated I then asked Kevin if he was worried
about the draft and he said not really he did not really think they would have a draft he then began to talk about
settling it through economic means free markets and why we were in the middle he went on to explain that he remembers
having long arguments really discussions with students and teachers at Shaker High School on topics like this when
Kevin was done explaining his views on the issues I asked him if he enjoyed thinking and talking about things in
theoretical kinds of terms Kevin said yes he remembers Kevin said yes he remembers doing that a lot in
economics and I said with Mr Fabrizio and he said oh you know him he's a different sort of guy but we used to
have a lot of long talks about economics World politics and anything Kevin added that his own views were kind
of conservative and had allowed him to have some long discussion with some kids at school that had really strong views
and then he enjoyed doing that kind of thinking and that kind of mental thought process
I then told him that was what I needed help with I explained that it would be great help to me in figuring out what
happened to Lisa Pruitt I asked him to put himself in the place of the person who did this to Lisa
Pruitt and tell me a little bit about what he thinks happened Kevin looked at me with a kind of
puzzled look and said just between us and I said yeah just to kind of help me think through the
thought process I began asking Kevin if he thought Lisa was riding her bike or walking when this
happened looking at me but without constant eye contact he said that he thought she was
riding her bike and that the person grabbed her off her bike and that the bike then rolled into the bushes
I asked him to go on and Kevin thought for a minute and then turned and looked at the sliding door window and began to
explain that the person who did this really didn't plan on it to happen and he didn't really think about it ahead of
time that he was just walking around that night and kind of wandering and saw Lisa and when these two people got close
something snapped something snapped in this anger came out that he could not control he knocked
Lisa off her bike and grabbed her and something happened and she was stabbed with a knife and she was stabbed and she
died so fast that he got scared he did not want that to happen and he started acting frantic and crazy and
running around and doing things real quick because he was scared Kevin paulsden I asked what happened
next and he looked at me and said that he ran from there Kevin added that he was sure that he
will never kill again and that he was sorry that Lisa died Kevin said that he probably has a new
life away from there Kevin thought for a moment and repeated that he got out of there
Kevin added that he was sure that this person will never kill again and that this person was so scared when Lisa died
that he will never kill again I told Kevin that I was afraid that something might snap again and that this
person might hurt someone Kevin said he was sure the person wouldn't because the
person had gone on to another life and things were better and this could never happen again
I asked Kevin to describe what he thought happened to Lisa he said she was stabbed and then he
added he heard on the news that she had been stabbed I asked him to explain in Greater detail
and he said that he thought she was stabbed from the front Kevin said that he just walked up to her
and stabbed her once twice maybe more because there was a lot of anger going on Kevin has to use the bathroom and in
fact got stuck in there due to a sticky door we joked about it he decided that next
time he wouldn't close the door completely he also got another pop about this time
after a couple minutes stretch I asked Kevin how well he knew the area where this had happened he told me that he
often walks around at night when he can't sleep but that he usually doesn't go to Lee Road
he added that most of the time he just walks near her house he added that he added that most of the
time he just walks near his house or goes across the street and sits in the stadium at the high school
he explained that he often doesn't sleep well and that he uses the time to think
things out for himself I asked Kevin what kind of things he thinks about and he said that over the
years he has had a lot of problems with dealing with kids at Shaker and that he often needed time to think things out
Kevin said that happened when he would say or do something to others that bothered him
he mentioned dealing with girls specifically but added that things were better now that he had his new life at
college I then asked Kevin to describe the area and he said there was a sidewalk and
some trees but he didn't remember it in much detail I asked him to try to remember what he
could about the area to think in terms of the person who did this and to think what he would do with the knife
Kevin said that he would get rid of it only an idiot would keep the knife I asked how he would get rid of it Kevin
real quickly replied that would be easy there would be a lot of sewers around and if you throw it hard enough no one
will ever find it still thinking in terms of the person who did this I asked Kevin where this
scared person would go to wash blood off his hands or to change clothes he looked right at me and said that the
way Lisa was stabbed this person didn't get any blood on him and didn't get any blood on their clothes and that he
didn't know where they would go if they did I asked him if he was familiar with the
lakes and parks in the area and he again said that he did not know where this person would go to wash or change
I then asked Kevin to tell me how this person felt and how Lisa felt before during and after
Kevin thought for a minute and said he didn't feel anything before because he was just walking around and didn't know
it was going to happen Kevin said he then felt scared and angry because he couldn't stop what was
happening to Lisa I asked Kevin how this person felt afterwards he paused and said
guilty he added he thought the person felt a lot of guilt he then looked right at me and quickly
at it that he thought this person would feel guilty because he Kevin always made
himself feel guilty about things he couldn't control Kevin went on to explain it he felt a
lot of guilt about Lisa's death and that he felt he should have been there to stop this person even though he knows
logically that he shouldn't feel that way I asked Kevin how he thought Lisa felt
he thought for a minute looked out the window and said Lisa knew him and that she felt surprised and that she looked
real scared when she realized what was happening I asked Kevin what this person might
have said to Lisa and he said that he didn't think this person said anything to Lisa
we then talked about the possibility that the motive was robbery or rape he paused
lean back on the couch and said that he didn't think Lisa had anything to steal that he didn't think that this person
wanted to rape her that it was anger or something snapping and that he didn't think the person was a criminal I asked
Kevin if he thought this person heard Lisa's screaming and he looked right at me and said of course he would
he added that he is so close that the screams would be like yelling in your ear right now
we then talked a little bit about what happens to people under stress I told him that there are policemen
involved in shootings that don't remember hearing the shots he simply said he didn't believe it
we then talked a little bit about how people believe different things he mentioned long arguments with other
students over beliefs and added that he sometimes expressed an extreme view to get people to argue we talked a little
about crimes and how different people have different views on what should happen to people that commit crimes
I then asked Kevin what he thought should happen to the person who did this to Lisa
Kevin had been very relaxed he sat right up look me right in the eyes spoke slowly and deliberately and
said that the person that did this should be electrocuted should hang or should at least spend his life in prison
he paused then looking away to the center of the room adding that if he is under 21 years old
he should be treated like a juvenile because you don't have any real rights up until you're 21 years old anyways and
that this person needed help this person needed guidance and that I should understand that the person didn't really
mean to do this [Music] thank you [Music] I told Kevin that that was exactly why I
came to Columbus that we shared concerns about the person who did this that I agreed with him that I thought Lisa knew
the person who did this that I felt that during our investigation we had interviewed the person who did this
during our investigation I explained to him that I felt that at some time I would be interviewing this
person and that in order to help this person I needed to get through to him that I was from our juvenile unit and
was used to helping kids get help that the reason I was involved in all the interviews was that I had convinced
my boss that this was a kid who needed help and who was not a criminal I told Kevin that time was running out
as our detectives put together a case to send a criminal to jail I asked for advice on how to convince
this person that I understood that he needed help and that the only chance I had of convincing others was for this
person to trust me I explained that someone has to present the case to the prosecutor and that how
the case is presented determines what the person is charged with I added that I viewed myself as a
neutral Outsider in the judicial process whose Duty it was to gather facts and put pieces together and present it to a
prosecutor I explained that if the fact showed evidence of a cold-blooded killing then
I would be forced to present those facts but if the facts showed that someone needed help then I would present those
facts I told Kevin that my fear was that the person needed help and I would not be able to get through to him
I asked Kevin for his help and asked if he thought that I could get through to this person
and told him that I valued his opinion because I thought this person was one of his group of friends
Kevin told me he thought that I could get through to this person but that it would not be easy because it would be
very difficult for this person to admit what he had done I then asked Kevin how I could get
through to this person Kevin told me that I would have to meet again and again and again with this
person and that I would have to push them real hard and get them real emotional and force them to want to talk
about what happened he added that he thought it would really be in the best interest of the person
involved if I kept doing that to everybody until I got to the person so that he could admit what he did and get
the help that he needed I talked to Kevin about how important this trip down here was to me
I told him that after interviewing people most of the day I decided that I had to talk to him and that it couldn't
wait I explained to Kevin that many people including my boss believed that Kevin
had been involved in what happened to Lisa I told Kevin that I needed his help to explain this to my boss
I asked Kevin to help me explain and I told Kevin that I needed help from him to explain his involvement to my boss
Kevin became very defensive and said in a strong voice quote I didn't do it I then asked Kevin who he thought did do
it and he said he was very scared for texts and that he thought text killed Lisa
I asked if he thought text was capable and he said that text had been at his house Friday morning and that text had
threatened to kill Dan dryford because he thought Dan dryford did it we then talked about whether Kevin
believed that text really thought Dan driver did it and the conflict between that and Kevin thinking the text did it
Kevin finally said he did not really think text did it but was not sure who else could have done it
I told Kevin I had a lot of unanswered questions and asked him what he would say if I told him that someone had seen
him out of his house that night Kevin quickly replied that no one saw me out of my house
then he added it was too dark out there for anyone to see me he went on to explain that as he had
explained to Detective mullaney he went to bed that he woke up and was unable to
sleep and that he just got up and walked around the house he added that he had gotten a sharp pain
while lying in bed about 12 30 am explained that this made him feel extremely guilty because he felt he
should have realized that something was going on that he should have been out there to do something about it but that
he stayed in his house he also said that he had talked to his next door neighbor and that his next
door neighbor had had the same pain the same time of the night and that he thought that was kind of eerie because
he quote thinks it was right about the time that somebody was doing this to Lisa Pruitt I told Kevin I was thinking
about Loose Ends again and asked if there was any reason he might find his fingerprints on Lisa's genes Kevin got
very defensive said his fingerprints are not on Lisa's genes and insisted that I
take his fingerprints to compare it with any fingerprints on Lisa's jeans I explained to Kevin that a lot of
evidence such as that was still being examined and until such time as we had fingerprints to compare something to we
would not be collecting fingerprint cards from any of the suspects involved I explained that his answers meant more
now before we got the evidence back I then told Kevin I wanted to think back to his description of what happened to
Lisa I asked Kevin if he was familiar enough with the area that he could draw me a sketch of the area
he explained that he often walks at night that he doesn't go toward Lee Road I then showed him four pictures of the
area I asked if he could look through the pictures and see if they gave him a better picture of what happened he
looked through the pictures then went back to the third picture of what was looking Northbound at the sidewalk on
Lee Road where the bicycle was found stared and looked at that picture as we talked for the next few minutes
I told him that I needed the truth from him that I needed him to be honest with me
he told me that he was being honest and that he did not do anything to Lisa that
he did not do it I told him I needed his help to resolve this either way I told Kevin that detective mullaney had
told me that during the first interview he had offered to take a polygraph test Kevin stated that he was still ready to
take the polygraph and added that he would like to take it at any time I explained to Kevin that it was
important to do the polygraph when it was good for him I added that I appreciated his cooperation in the
investigation and that I could arrange to set it up for next week tomorrow whenever he wanted
Kevin asked how quickly we could get the polygraph operator down because he wanted to take it as quickly as possible
I asked Kevin if he wanted to go back to his dormitory and get some sleep I also
told him that if he wanted he was welcome to stay here he said that if we could do it early the
next day he could just stay at the motel he then thought about the fact that he had eight o'clock classes and was
concerned about missing classes and wanted to get the polygraph over with but didn't want to interfere with his
classes I told Kevin that I had prepared for the trip and it brought a polygraph operator
with me I explained that it was up to him but I told Kevin if he wanted to do it tonight I could go talk to the
polygraph operator and make arrangements for the polygraph I explained that it would take some time for the operator to
prepare the questions for the test Kevin said that he would rather do it now whatever it took so that he could
prove once and for all that he didn't do anything to Lisa Kevin appeared to be in
a very emotional state he was smoking heavily his muscles tensed up and he had a lot of intensity
in his voice I try to just talk more about other things for a while in order to get a more relaxed for the polygraph
we talked about polygraphs and police investigations then spent time talking about college and about shaker at
approximately 12 30 in the morning I asked Kevin if he wanted another pop he took a break and went to the bathroom
[Music] Kevin was out of cigarettes and I got him a fresh pack I told him I had two
options either bring the polygraph operator down and we talk in general about the setup or go to the other room
and brief the polygraph operator Kevin said he'd like a few minutes to sit and smoke a cigarette so I told
Kevin I'd be back in a few minutes I met with our officers in room number 516 and explained to our polygraph
operator Tom kahanski where I was at in the interview and we discussed key points for the polygraph
Tom kahanski asked if Kevin was arrested enough to take a polygraph I then returned to talk to Kevin while
the polygraph questions were prepared I asked Kevin if he had ever taken a polygraph before then he said no I
explained to him that he needed to be rested and calm and prepared to take the polygraph we talked about the late hour
and I again offered to let him sleep either at the motel or in his dormitory Kevin said that he felt good that he
felt relaxed and that he wanted to take the polygraph and get it over with I told him we had some time until the
polygraph operator was ready we just sat and talked about the adjustment to college we talked about how easiest
classes were and his preparation from high school and said that he was real excited and that he had a whole new
chance to get a new life started and was hoping that we would come down and get done with this and he wouldn't have to
deal with it anymore because he was really comfortable in his new life that he had started Kevin also talked at this
point in time about his roommate and how somebody at the college must do a really
good job of matching roommates because he and his roommate clicked right from the very beginning and he really liked
the guy a lot he had a nice girlfriend Kevin then mentioned that he had already met a couple girls at Ohio State and how
much better things were going at college he added that just today a girl had walked up and talked to him in one of
his classes without him ever having to talk to her or do anything and he didn't think about getting her number but he
was excited because he would see her in class the next day and would be able to get her number and she would be a new
friend to be able to talk to after we talked for a few minutes there was a knock at the door and it was Tom
kahanski I introduced Kevin young and Tom kahansky Tom kahansky then brought in the polygraph equipment and began
setting it up on the table I talked to Kevin and asked him if there was anything else I could do for him and
he said no I told him if there were any questions or problems that I'd be in the
other room and they could call me at about 2 A.M I left Tom kahanski and Kevin young in room 520. I went to room
516 to wait for the polygraph to be completed we again discussed the interview we were just discussing a number of
options and I contacted special agent Jim Wright of the FBI at home Jim Wright provided direction for the
interview if it should continue and reminded me that Kevin and I could be getting tired I decided to focus on the
polygraph as a break and use the next session as a new time of talking to Kevin about 2 45 AM when the polygraph
test was over Tom kahanski left Kevin in room 520 and came to room 516 to discuss
the results he told me that there was slight deception on all but two of the questions however he added that Kevin
had an extreme high stress heart rate that could be related to the interview or just being tired
Tom kahansi explained that he had not confronted Kevin with any of the results I took the notepad with Tom kahinski's
notes and questions on it and went back to room 520 to meet Kevin Kevin was still seated at the table
where Tom kahanski had conducted the polygraph I pulled a chair directly in front of Kevin and told him that I was
concerned I explained that he had not done well on the interview as I had hoped I explained to him that there were a
number of questions for which he showed deception I told him it was late and asked him if
he thought being tired had a lot to do with it Kevin said he thought that that must be it and that he was sure he was
telling the truth I looked him right in the eyes and asked him if he did it and once again he
replied I didn't do it I then reminded Kevin that we both had been up all day and then gave him some
options in terms of what he might like to do I told him that I was down here to learn
the truth from him and to help him and that I would do whatever he wanted to do I told him one choice was that I could
take him back to his dormitory and if he wanted come back next week to see him a second choice was to take him back to
his dormitory and see him again after classes the third choice was to continue to talk
Kevin said he wanted to continue talking and that he wasn't tired and felt that he could best help by continuing to
discuss the incident we took a short break Kevin went to the bathroom and I got him another pop
I then started by talking to Kevin about how important this was for me personally
to get through to the person who did this to Lisa and get them the help that they needed I explained that most of the
police department and most of the investigators had kids and that they were only out to solve a crime Kevin
said that he had heard a lot of things about Lucasville prison and that he had been thinking about that
and that it would be really awful for the person who did this to Lisa to have to spend the rest of their life in a
place like Lucasville prison we then talked in general about the need to punish adults and to help kids
we then reviewed how he heard about what happened to Lisa he talked about texts coming over to his house about his
mother walking him up about the fact that his mother knew because she'd gotten a call but that his mother didn't
tell him Kevin talked about how text was real wild and upset about the whole thing Kevin said he didn't think much
about it until he was at Arabica later in the day I told Kevin I had some concerns about
what he said to others about Lisa while he was at Arabica he said he only knew what text told him
I asked him what text told him and he said text told him that Lisa had been knocked off her bicycle bludgeoned and
raped I then confronted Kevin with the information I had that he was insisting that she had been stabbed and not beaten
and that he was insisting that she had not been raped Kevin denied that he said that and added
that maybe sometime later in the day he had heard on the news or otherwise that she had been stabbed and that she wasn't
raped and that he remembers at some point hearing that Friday night and that he figured that must be what the kids
were referring to I again started to focus on Kevin and I told him that I was scared and that I
thought he was involved and that I would really hate for something to happen to him like him going to prison for the
rest of his life I told him that I really urgently needed him to tell me the truth Kevin began
moving in a seat and looked around the room with quick darting eyes he then looked at me relaxed back in the
chair and told me that he was tired and then he needed a break he offered to sleep on the couch for a
couple hours Kevin said he wanted to get up talk some more and then take the polygraph again to prove his innocence
once and for all I discussed my concern that he be rested for the polygraph Kevin again offered to stay in the motel
room and asked me if I would help him in explaining to his teachers if he missed
the classes because he had a couple of quizzes coming up I told him I would help him in any way
possible I asked Kevin if he would rather go back to his dorm room and sleep and he said he was afraid he would
spend the rest of the night explaining this to his roommates I asked Kevin if it was a normal day and he was up till
4am the current time how late he would sleep he said probably until 10 or 11 A.M
I told Kevin that I would move my bag out of the bedroom room 520 is a two-room suite and that there was a
large Bed and bathroom and that he could have the sweet to himself for the night
I suggested that he just rest and go to sleep and wake up when he was ready to go for the next day Kevin asked me if he
could call his parents and I said sure and offered again to pay for the call he then thought about the time and said
he did not want to worry them by calling it for it in the morning and asked if he
could call when he got up I told him sure he then went into the bedroom in 520 and
closed the door I straightened up room 520 a little and went to room 516 and advised deputy
chief brochus that I was done for the night I left a note for Kevin a call room 510 if he needed something before I
returned it was 4 45 am and I retired for the night I got up about 8 am a little before 8 30 the phone rang and
it was Kevin he said he was up and ready to go I told him I was just taking a shower and
asking Pete had a chance to take a shower he said no but he would love to I told him there were towels soap
shampoo and everything in the bathroom suite and it was paid for and he might as well use it and to make himself
comfortable and I would be down shortly I got dressed and went down to room 520 as Kevin was coming out of the back room
he told me he was ready to go and he felt good after the shower I asked him if he would like to start with some
breakfast and he said that that sounded like a good idea there was a complimentary paper from the
motel I gave him the paper and asked if he wanted to look at it I asked him again if he still wanted to
take the polygraph he said yes he really needed to prove that he was innocent I told him I thought he'd be more
relaxed if Tom kahanski went out to breakfast with us he agreed I explained that Tom kahansky
had gotten up early and gone for a walk I left Kevin reading the paper for about
20 minutes until I located Tom I then returned to Kevin's room and told him that Tom kahanski would be along in
a couple minutes Kevin and I discussed the Middle East and a couple other current news items
until Tom kahanski knocked on the door we asked Kevin where he wanted to eat and he said anything was fine
as we walked out of the room door Kevin remembered that he had forgotten to call
home I started to walk back into the room and said I would charge the call to the city
Kevin thought for a minute then said no he'd rather wait until after the polygraph when it was all over
Kevin young Tom kahanski and I then walked to the area of the front desk where the motel restaurant was located
and we debated between eating there or at the Bob Evans next door Kevin said he liked Bob Evans so we walked next door
Kevin had a breakfast of coffee and orange juice and French toast we took about an hour to eat breakfast
relax and talk Kevin talked a lot about computer games and Dungeons and Dragons Tom kahansi expressed an interest in
Dungeons and Dragons and Kevin explained in detail about using the book being the
dragon master and being a player he said a lot of the kids asked him to be Dragon
master he added that it was tough to be a player after you have been a dragon Master because you knew the book
he said that a dragon Master had to come up with a lot of obstacles when players
had been Dragon Masters Kevin also talked about video games and Nintendo he was proud of the fact that he had
mastered Super Mario 3. he said that it took him like three hours to complete the first time but that after he played
it once he could do it in about 20 minutes he said he played Nintendo a lot but that it was really his brother's game he
jokingly said that he has to get along with his little brother or his brother won't let him play
Kevin said he realized he was a little old for some of these video games but said that they were a great Challenge
and a lot of fun we took our time and walked back to the motel Tom kahanski went to prepare for the
polygraph and Kevin and I began just talking about things in general I was working to have him very relaxed
for the test I asked Kevin if he felt pretty good about the taking the polygraph and he did we discussed again
calling his mother and he repeated that he wanted to wait until after the polygraph Kevin asked if we would be
done after the polygraph or if we could talk a little and I said it was up to him
and he asked if I could get some more pop and make sure that we had cigarettes so that we could take some time to talk
after the test he said he already missed his classes and basically the whole day was spent
and if we needed to talk about that we could Kevin also said he'd like to talk a while before he took the polygraph by
now he was about 10 a.m and we talked until about noon during that time we discussed the
incident again we talked about how Kevin learned about the incident and who his friends are I asked who his best friend
was and Kevin mentioned a letter he was writing to John Hilliard he explained that he was writing the
letter but probably wouldn't send it because he expected to see him in a couple of weeks
he added that in the letter he told John how well things are going at college he also said he wrote about his roommate
and his roommate's girlfriend he said he wrote about her PDA public displays of affection Kevin added that she didn't
really bother him but that he just kind of jokingly said those kind of things because people expected to hear that
from him we then got to talking about computers he said he had an Apple computer at home and had just learned to
write and print on it but that was about all he added that he had to give the computer to his sister a ninth grader at
Shaker before he left to come down to Columbus I then asked him when he had come down to Columbus
he said he brought all of his stuff on the 9th of September to try out for band he said that he changed his mind about
band left his stuff in the dormitory and went home I asked him why he changed his
mind and he said it was a lot of things he said that he was nervous about being away from home that most of the kids had
been down there practicing for two weeks he added that band also took a lot of time and was only worth two credits
he also said he was never really into marching band that he enjoyed music but not marching
he seemed nervous discussing band and changed the subject he mentioned a couple of girls that had
come up to him in classes and talked to him he added that they just came up to him and that he did not have to talk
first he went on to talk about how glad he was to be away from shaker he was excited to
have a whole new life and was glad to be away from the problems he had in Shaker
he felt the kids in Shaker were tough and related that he had a lot of friends but that they make him feel like an
outcast I asked if he was referring to the GGC Kevin lafton we then talked about the GGC girls and boys and about
prom night he brought up the after prom party and told me that he has a tendency
to build up his expectations and that he really felt angry about what the girls did to him he brought up Arabica and
said that he basically hung out there for the summer I asked him how Dan and Lisa fit in he
described Dan as a best friend of his for a long time and that during the time that Lisa was in town he and Dan spent a
lot of time together he went on to say that between Lisa being back in town and Dan being in the
hospital that he really hadn't seen Dan much lately I then asked Kevin what clothes he brought back from Columbus
for his last week here I explained that we did not find any of his clothes when we were at his house
he said all of his clothes were in the clothes shoot I told him the kids all remember him
wearing one set of clothes he said most of the week he wore a skateboarder t-shirt blue jeans and his
moccasins he said on the cool nights he wore a blue plaid flannel shirt he asked
if that matched what we knew and I said basically I thought for a minute and then asked if he saw Dan the day Dan got
out of the hospital Kevin explained that even though he considered Dan a best friend that he had
not felt it important to try to get in touch with Dan or to talk to him the day that he got out
Kevin said he was aware that everybody at the high school was excited to see Dan and that Lisa and Dan had been
around together and that Lisa was very excited to see him we talked next about techs Ken Workman
Kevin was in a very talkative mood during this time period And I was basically listening and letting him talk
around noon Kevin said that he felt good that he was ready to take the polygraph
I left him in room 520. I told him that I had to go to Tom kahanski's room and talk to him about setting up for the
test at this time I learned that we had a problem and had to be out of the room by
2PM Jim Brosius had made arrangements for another room if needed also while Kevin was waiting for me in
520 I called Jim Wright from room 516. I discussed my concern that Kevin felt safe here and was prolonging the
interview I felt that Kevin did not want the interview to end he felt that Kevin felt
safe with me we agreed that we had to confront him and end the interview Arrangements were also made with Tom
kahanskin to run the polygraph and that if it came up clearing Kevin young of any involvement that he should discuss
that with Kevin and that if it came back with obvious deception that Tom kahansky
should confront him with the deception and be prepared for the fact that Kevin might look like he's about ready to
admit and that at that point that Tom kahanski should stop the confrontation and leave the room and let Kevin think
for a few minutes until I returned to the room to complete the confrontation I then went back and talked to Kevin and
told him that either we had to be done by 2PM or that we had to move to another room I gave him the option of taking the
test right away or having lunch first while Tom kohansky changed rooms and set up his equipment in the other room Kevin
thought lunch sounded good and asked if we could go for pizza specifically Pizza
Hut if there was one around I went to ask Tom kahanski to change rooms and Kevin asked me to get some
more coke and cigarettes in case we needed to talk after the polygraph we again talked about calling home and
Kevin said he wanted to wait until after the polygraph test I saw Tom kahanski and return to the
room Kevin and I then walked to the front desk asked if there was a Pizza Hut and
got directions to One nearby on High Street we agreed to split a pizza and Kevin ordered a medium pepperoni pan
pizza we took our time and again talked about college and college life and being
away from home and he talked about how it was scary it was basically casual conversation
Kevin kept coming back to talking about his friends from Shaker and how good it felt to be away from shaker
we returned to the motel about 1 30 pm and went to room 421. as we walked there Kevin said that if
the test didn't work well he would be willing to spend another night he added that he felt very comfortable
talking and felt confident that if we talked long enough that we would be able to resolve everything
when we got to the room Tom kahanski was waiting there for us Kevin was very relaxed he asked if he
could use the bathroom first because of the large Coke he had for lunch Kevin went into the bathroom I met
briefly with Tom and told him I thought Kevin was very relaxed and ready for the
polygraph when Kevin came out of the bathroom he was noticeably more tense than he had just been moments earlier
he was all tensed up and rubbing his hands together nervously I asked Kevin if he still wanted to take
the test and he said he was ready to go I wished Kevin good luck and told him I would return after the test at a few
minutes before 3 pm when the polygraph test was complete Tom kahanski left Kevin by himself in room 421 and came to
room 516 to discuss the results he said that he ran two tests that he had clear deceptions on most of the
questions dealing with Lisa that he confronted Kevin with a deception and that Kevin got tears in his eyes but
said nothing Tom kahansi said he had confronted Kevin directly about his involvement with Lisa
and Kevin again said I didn't do it at about 3 pm Jim Brosius and I went into the room Kevin was sitting by the
polygraph machine on a chair with a concerned almost teary look in his eyes I asked Kevin if he remembered Deputy
Chief brocius and Kevin said he did I asked Kevin if he remembered Deputy Chief brocius and Kevin said he did I
told Kevin that due to the pressure on this incident that they had sent deputy chief down to Columbus deputy chief
brocius then left the room I asked Kevin if he minded if I open the drapes and he
said that that would be great I sat down directly in front of him got very close and told him I was concerned
I sat down directly in front of him got very close and told him that I was concerned and a little scared about what
happened he said he knew the machine couldn't lie but he didn't understand why the machine
was doing this to him I paused for a couple minutes and began to slowly explain to Kevin the situation as I saw
it I told him that if he really was not involved in what happened to Lisa that things would work out
I then told him I was afraid that he was not telling the truth I told him I really wanted a chance to
help him I repeated that the person who did this to Lisa needed me both as a friend and as someone to present
objectively to the prosecutor exactly what happened I repeated my feeling that this person
really needed help that this person really didn't mean to hurt Lisa and that this person didn't deserve to spend his
life in prison or to be executed I told Kevin I had a number of concerns about his involvement with Lisa I told him I
wanted to go over them with him so that he understood why the pressure was on us
to resolve his involvement I told Kevin that I had concerns about how he found out about Lisa and his reaction to her
death I explained that he said text told him that Lisa had been pulled off her bike
hit in the head murdered and raped yet kids at Arabica told us that by 1 30 in the afternoon that he Kevin had been
insisting that she had been stabbed and had not been raped I told Kevin that we didn't understand why watching the five
o'clock news listing Dan as a suspect made it obvious to everyone that Dan didn't do it I told Kevin I was worried
that he kept saying text did it yet he told us that text wanted to kill Dan for doing it I told Kevin that I was worried
that he had made repeated threats against Dan and Lisa I told Kevin that I was worried about his relationships with
girls I read from his journals quote I'm in the popular crowd but I don't like them or quote I speak on a lonely
Saturday evening or quote my luck will change for the better in the next few months between high school and college
each time he asked for and I showed him the paper that I was reading from I told
him I thought the affection between Dan and Lisa bothered him and I read again from his papers quote it really pisses
me off when I see couples paired off I am worth absolutely nothing he replied that that had all changed and I reminded
him what he had said about his roommate's girlfriend's PDA public display of affection
I told him I had concerns about his fantasies with girls and again read regarding prom night
quote it is not a bash it is three girls and myself and they are ditching their boyfriends so they can spend the night
with me I asked if he really thought they were ditching their boyfriends on Prom Night
he continued to look at me but did not respond I told him some of his thoughts bothered me like quote I will kill all
undesirables I must I am hated by virtually all my classmates males think I'm a loser and psychotic a scar on the
school's mere existence females despise me as if I was the ugliest person on this planet which of course I am
I read the one final thought of his quote If I Ever Lose Control of myself withdraw into an alternative world and
let animal instincts take over I handed Kevin a copy of that Passage that was I handed Kevin a copy of that passage
that was found at his house paused then told Kevin that you can't stay in this alternative world that the truth must
come out I told Kevin that I had enjoyed the time with him that it had been a long day and
that I had to get back to the real world I told Kevin that he had to get back to
the real world too I pause for a minute and told Kevin that I felt that he had a number of options I
told him that I felt confident that if he was truthfully not involved that things would work out
however I also told him that if he was involved in any way in what happened to Lisa that he could never Escape it
I said I felt that until he shared the truth with someone who could understand him
that there would be something deep down inside him that would never let him get away from this
I told him that until this was resolved he couldn't go back to Shaker because everybody in Shaker would think of him
as being the suspect I added that he couldn't go back to college because everything in college
would Now remind him of Lisa I told him he couldn't go back to anything until he told the truth
I told him he had to clear his conscience and tell the truth Kevin reacted he leaned forward he got real tense and
he looked me right in the eyes with tears welling up in his eyes and deep emotion in his voice he said he could
have told me he did it spent a couple years in the hospital then got on with his life but he said quote I've got to
tell you the truth and this is the truth and if I don't tell you this I don't know how I could ever live with myself
he paused for a couple minutes then slowly he said I'm scared I feel suicidal I have
nothing to live for I feel more suicidal now than I ever have since I was hospitalized two years ago
he said that he quote needed to be in the hospital he said that for the first time in his
life he realized that he really needed help and that he needed to be in the hospital he said he couldn't go anywhere
but a hospital I told him that I thought he ought to call his parents and talk to
them about getting in a hospital he said no he couldn't call home he said no he couldn't call home because
his mom wouldn't believe him and she wouldn't let him go into the hospital he added that he really needed to be in
a hospital and away from his parents he thought for a minute and asked if he could call his doctor
I told him we could we walked over to the phone he had a card in his wallet for Dr Melvin
chavinson he gave me the number and I dialed it and charged it to the city credit card
Kevin asked if he could talk to his doctor privately and I agreed I started to walk out of the room until Kevin told
me he got the answering machine he left a message on the answering machine at about 4 10 pm and said
something to the effect of this is Kevin I need to talk to you I'll call you back
in a little bit Kevin and I talked for a little while and I told him that I thought he should leave a message with a
number for the doctor to call Kevin felt confident his doctor would call during his next break between patients from 4
50 pm to 5 PM so we left a second message at about 4 20 p.m while we were waiting we discussed a number of the
points we discussed I again asked Kevin what he thought should happen to the person that did this to Lisa he replied
that the person should kill himself because he had nothing to live for and if the person didn't kill himself then
he should be killed Kevin told me he really had nothing to live for and just needed to sit
he sat on the bed and was silent for a while he talked a little more about making
friends and how hard it was he said he had a deep pain inside and that it was so deep he couldn't tell me
he added that he wanted to tell me what it was but that he needed help and he couldn't say it
he then looked at me and said he wasn't even sure of what it was as of 505 PM Dr
chavinson had not called so I called Shaker PD and got detective clima as he was leaving the station
I asked him to go knock on the door of Dr shavenson's office 23360 Chagrin Boulevard Suite 105. Dr shavingsen
finally called about 5 15. Kevin answered the phone but asked if he could talk privately
I waited outside the door after a few minutes Kevin came to the door he told me that Dr chavinson could make
arrangements to get him help in the hospital however Dr shavenson told him he had to call his parents something
about insurance Kevin then asked if he could call his dad instead of his mom because his mom
wouldn't believe him Kevin tried but got no answer for his dad Kevin hesitated and didn't want to call
his mom I told Kevin that I felt he knew what he wanted and if he was strong enough I was
sure his parents would support him Kevin asked me if I would visit him and help him through this and I promised I
would I again told him he really needed to call his mom because I couldn't stay with him forever and I couldn't leave
him alone he finally called his mom and I again stepped outside the room Kevin came to the door after a minute
and asked for a pen and paper after another minute he returned to the door with tears in his eyes he said he didn't
know what to do that his mother didn't want him to talk to me and wanted him to call an attorney
he showed me the paper with the attorney's name and number on it I told him the decision was his but suggested
that if he wanted his parents help that he should follow their advice given them called the attorney they
talked for a couple minutes then Kevin came outside the room and told me that the attorney wanted to talk to me
the attorney asked me where Kevin was and I told him we were in room 421 of the Ramada Inn on Olentangy River Road
the attorney also asked me not to ask Kevin any more questions he then spoke to Kevin again when Kevin
got off the phone he told me he was to meet the attorney out front and that I was not even to walk him out Kevin the
tears in his eyes asked if this meant I couldn't visit him in the hospital and I simply told him that I needed to
make those arrangements with his parents and attorney I then walked Kevin to the elevator he
gave me a hug as we waited for the elevator he went down to the first floor I went up to the fifth floor and
prepared to drive back to Shaker Heights [Music] after the detectives were unable to
force a confession from Kevin young at Ohio State University they returned to Shaker Heights more determined than ever
that they had the right man they needed a real expert to help them break Kevin the next time they spoke
enter renowned psychologist Dr Murray Myron a professor at Syracuse University he agrees to consult with them on the
case but first he has some questions about Dan dryford yeah I understand that and and indeed
that's a very powerful Alibi um that the father indicates that Dan was in fact in his room and that they
both heard the screams together yes that's that's very powerful there is some I must say that we we had
some difficulty still however with Dan's subsequent Behavior he after they go out to the edge of the
property and and I'll go back into the home apparently satisfied that the source of the scream has left the area
or whatever and that they can't find anything unusual apparently Dan re-exits the house to find the bicycle
and then in fact without telling his parents um calls 9-1-1 on his own uh to report what he believes to be now
suspicious circumstances but then when the parents hear the Pruitt's outside on the lawn you know and they're
distraught and here are all these police vehicles the crime scene being established that Dan goes to bed right
falls asleep but while the parents are waiting for the plane clothes detective to come in and interview them huh right
I found that I found that unusual um and someone disconcerting but what we decided here was that dick and I decided
that well that's not that's academic right because it's not Dan that we're going to be interrogating it's it's
Kevin and whether or not he's the guy or not we want to give the full shot to to
use the best psychological coercion we can [Music] [Music] [Music] thank you [Music]

Shaker Heights - Episode 5: The Crucible

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

In the early morning hours of Friday, September 14, 1990, 16 year old Lisa Pruett was stabbed to death in Shaker Heights. This is a 6 part true crime series. The bulk of the story comes from actual police interviews. As the story unfolds, ask yourself, who do you think killed Lisa Pruett?Directed and produced by True Crime Garage. Co-produced by The Philosophy of Crime and narration written by James Renner

A BIG Thank You to all of our voice actors!Jordan Bonaparte - www.NightTimePodcast.com Tyler Allen - www.MindsofMadnessPodcast.com Jessica Bettencourt - True Crime Garage & Scene of the Crime Podcasts Mike Bussing - Executive Producer of Truth & Justice with Bob RuffBob Ruff - www.TruthandJusticePod.com Tim Pilleri - www.CrawlSpace-Media.comAaron H - www.GenWhyPod.com & www.FramedPod.com Maggie Freleng - www.MaggieFreleng.com Bill Huffman - My Passion Case and Who killed Podcasts - www.SloBurnMedia.comMorgan - The Captain & Morgan Podcast Jessica Yuan - www.AsianMadnessPod.Podbean.com Melissa Lee - Victimology PodcastScotty Boombox - www.ScottyBoombox.com Jesse P Pollock - Author of “Death on the Devil’s Teeth” & “The Acid King”James Renner - www.PhilosophyOfCrime.com

The full archive of True Crime Garage is available on the Stitcher listening app - for FREE. Our show “Off the Record” is only on Stitcher Premium. For a FREE month of listening go to http://stitcherpremium.com/truecrimegarage and use promo code GARAGE

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode details the wrongful suspicion of Kevin Young in the murder of Lisa Pruitt and the police's psychological tactics during the investigation.

Key points

The Crucible. A tragedy unfolds in Shaker Heights, Ohio, surrounding the murder of Lisa Pruitt.
Kevin Young's Life Altered. Kevin Young's life is irrevocably changed as he becomes a suspect in a murder case.
Kevin's Guilt. Kevin expresses deep guilt over Lisa's death, feeling he should have been there.
The Nature of the Crime. Discussion about the possible motives behind Lisa's death leads to tense moments.
Kevin's Defense. Kevin becomes defensive when confronted about his involvement in Lisa's murder.
The Polygraph Decision. Kevin insists on taking a polygraph test to prove his innocence.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

he will never hold down a real job or have any long relationships.

2:31WatchDec 12, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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