Serial Killer Phone Call ////// 544 | Forensic Files

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around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] all right I got a guy on the phone who
claims he's been killing prostitutes and he's wondering why he's doing it oh God
so maybe he thinks I have an answer is this Ed Ed no this isn't Ed oh you haven't killed any prostitutes no I
never said my name was Ed oh oh sorry that's okay what's your what name do you use you can call me clay
clay clay yes clay okay clay so what happened how many prostitutes have you killed
12 and you're wondering why you do it I have a pretty good idea why did your mom beat you did your mom spank you
did your mom a prostitute no actually nothing like that what is it then I think I just do it for the sense of the
power all right do you have sex with them first yes and and then what you strangle
them once how else did you kill him well a few times actually most times with a hammer H and where do you do this
primarily uh I've done it twice in the parking garage and then the rest of the times on the
side of the road and uh you're from the New Orleans area yes and H I mean what do you you
beat them to death with a hammer man that usually only takes one in dude you got to have a lot of anger in you yes
and that means you're heartless did you used to kill small animals no I've killed a rat yeah dude
you're a serial killer yeah yeah wow and you get away away with it I guess cuz they're hookers and so far nobody what
is this Howard yeah hello hello I didn't know this was Howard yeah it's Howard of course
yeah yeah no I've never killed a kitten H so how old were were you when you killed
your first woman 16 and you must be a powerful kind of guy big guy uh wasn't then right and uh when you
killed your first one did you go in there knowing you were going to kill her or it just sort of
happened I I knew I I had I really had it planned out you know I wanted to do the whole sending Clues right to baffle
people but it turned out no one noticed for a long time right like what like you
killed her on the side of the road uh her that was the parking garage okay and then what' you do with the body
you dumped that somewhere um yeah actually I think uh she's probably one of the ones that they found yeah but
let me ask you so you were sending clues that you were going to do this no I was
do that he was going to leave like a note for the newspapers and you know but you decided not to he didn't want to be
famous or draw attention to himself but what problem is that's what I wanted to do but oh but you did but no one noticed
the clues I no I never sent the clues I never left anything you know I wanted to
have my own little signature right I wanted to thumb paint oh with thumbs oh really what do you want to do thumb
paint with their thumbs thumb paint what though I don't know oh anything it was in a comic book a couple years ago was a
just seemed like a good idea like you take the girl you killed you you dip her thumbs and paint and then you do like a
thumb painting yes on a piece of paper yeah now when you after you kill somebody do you play with the
body um actually the closest I've ever done of that is I always make sure I pay them
and I make sure they keep their money oh really when they're still alive but uh with one of them I did put the money in
a compromising place I see but that was this one you it had a penis oh was a guy
yeah yeah I didn't know it first so do you you ever get do you think the reason you're so angry is because you were
abused or something no I wasn't abused Howard where's your family you got a wife I mean you got a
mom a dad a wife children you got any of that I've got a couple of kids but um I
no wife not married to the mother you're a white guy uh yeah Howard that's pretty funny
because the only suspect they had when they started finding the bodies was a black police
officer turns out one of them uh was associated with them oh really yeah are you on
drugs ah I've done acid a few times m so nothing Happ so after you killed after you killed the first 16-year-old like uh
you you finished you you finished 16 oh that's right I'm sorry was right so you finished with your uh sexual
gratification and then you not always no not always you don't even want to get laid sometimes no I just you just want
to kill I'm just bored right but does the killing sexually satisfy you in some way I can't believe Ed mcmah
laughing eaten off thinking about it later yeah what you say he's pleasured himself thinking about it later oh he
has okay now how far apart of these murders like do you murder and then like you feel satisfied for a while
um I don't even understand why I do it Howard I don't know if I ever get any satisfaction H but how how of together
anywhere was uh the same night really you killed two people in the same night yeah but I went to Mississippi for the
second one H hm so there's no pattern to how many weeks or days between murders no are these mostly White Chicks
or black chicks uh fair fair number of them have been black the uh transvest was black do he do some racial
motivation here no Howard they were just uh let's just say in Jimmy Swagger Town
mhm Jimmy Swagger Town don't know what that I me no that's that's pretty much the area around here where the
prostitutes all hang out I see and it's just whoever comes up to you you don't pick a certain type I don't
even approach them I wait for them to approach me Robin and you ever like them asking for it do you ever like look into
their eyes and go you know gee these these people were just children at one point and maybe they just had a tough
life I let a couple go you have like what happened you're in the middle of killing them and then they and then they
what do they say why would you let one go and kill the other there was this one go ahead I think she was probably really
new to it yeah I there was just something about maybe she reminded me of my fiance but
right you somehow Rel more of an innocent quality I just you somehow felt bad for
her yeah H you so okay so you killed your first woman when was the last time you
killed it's been a few months actually it's it's been going on a year so what do you think you're going to do do you
think you're going to kill yourself do you think that uh you think are you going to kill again can you stop this I
killed myself I missed the next Batman movie right you don't want to do that no no but in all seriousness I mean do you
think that uh you could control this do you think you can stop I think I have been oh you have been for the last
couple of months a year he hasn't killed oh a year yeah almost so why do you think he stopped killing all of a
sudden I really don't know Howard I just part of it had to do with my car broke down ah no Transportation seriously
that's the reason well that was the reason for a month but after that I guess it was all self-control wow so you
don't want to do this anymore no he wants to do it but he's controlling himself like you want to kill women
right sure yeah and what do you like it do you enjoy seeing them struggle as you kill
them uh actually none of them really struggle H do you hit them from behind or do they see it
coming oh I can't get inside their minds but let's just say I hit them but I mean
are you facing them yeah well you can see their face and everything when they do it yeah yeah the the worst I've ever
gotten was um one tried to grab my neck I've never gotten any of the claw marks or anything that are uh dead giveaways
right you must be very powerful I wouldn't call myself powerful maybe uh intimidating why did you use a
hammer you think uh cuz it was in a book I read oh oh everything has come from cartoons yeah
when's the last time you got laid uh last week Howard oh yeah so you didn't kill that girl no cuz she wasn't a
hooker no right it's only hookers though a lot of serial killers are only the hookers cuz they know a easy probably
won't get caught and be they have some kind of anger toward hookers so there's no way I'm going to talk you into giving
yourself up or anything right no I shouldn't even waste my time I know I'm going to get calls after this people
going to go Howard how can we even catch him has anybody ever been close to catching you no no actually someone once
when it was in the newspaper someone joked to me I know it was you but uh well they were joking right do you have
a lot of tattoos oh I don't have any tattoos I wouldn't do that to myself right and do you get high before you do
this uh I've gotten pretty drunk before yeah I'm the only guy you could am I the
only guy you ever told about this yeah H wow I guess that's sort of an honor I've
told a couple of women Howard but uh they're dead yeah do you tell them first and then you kill him uh yeah what do
you say to him let me let's now and then you can play the running game if you're
out in the middle of nowhere and we got a lot in the middle of nowhere down here
right so in other words let's say you're with a woman right a hooker yeah Howard and
you say to her uh okay honey uh you know you just had sex and everything what do
you say to her to torment her how do you break the news to her that she's going to
die I it really depends on my uh mood just give us an example well if I wanted to I could just
say Baba buoy but that would be pretty uh no come on be serious what do you say to
them I I can say you're GNA die and then what do they do I like to articulate a little more than that
mhm sometimes I ask them uh if they think it's dangerous doing what they're doing if they're worried about things
and they'll laugh it off and that just pisses me off right and then you go ahead and you kill them yeah
H all right well there you go [Music] well you heard it there folks in November of 1997 a man calling himself
clay saying he is the killer of sex workers a dozen at that calling from the New Orleans area to speak with shock
jock legendary DJ Howard Stern calling up telling Howard Stern that he believes that he got into killing women for fame
and notoriety and later he now believes that he does it simply for power and control and this is a call that has been
an interesting one obviously this is an older call but one that really sparked a
lot of renewed interest just earlier this year in fact in the fall of 2021 and I don't know why all of a
sudden here Captain this pops up on the radar is something that everybody's really interested in all you know all
these years later but one guest that I have is anybody that listens to Howard or is the
proud listener of Sirius XM knows that Howard has two whole channels devoted to him and the shenanigans of his staff and
crew and the Howard station 101 which is arguably one of my favorite stations on
Sirius XM plays a lot of the best of or sternthology or you know the older shows
interestingly enough here Captain I remember roughly around August or September of this
year they played this call again they played the entire segment which I believe was multiple callers and this
clay killer of women was only one of maybe three callers during a maybe a 20 minute segment and but it's by far the
most intriguing of those three calls and absolutely one of the most intriguing calls that Howard has received in his
very lengthy career well just to get this right because I'm I'm not an avid Howard Stern listener I think he does
great interviews I think he's obviously evolving throughout the years and this was 20 some years ago I think you can
tell from this interview uh Howard's kind of listening like where I think Howard has become a better listener when
he's doing interviews now then and obviously it's just a caller calling in but you can tell there's a couple times
where he has the caller has to correct Howard because he's not really fully engaged in the call but so what I'm
guessing is that they'd have a call-in section and that section would be normally about 20 some minutes long and
then if one call is kind of boring you cut them off at a couple minutes but this one was pretty intriguing so it
last almost 11 minutes long yeah and I think what you have there and as someone who's listened to Howard for quite some
time this is actually typical Howard to me like and I think it's not because he's not trying to listen I think he's
quarterbacking a lot of stuff that's going on that we don't see because all we're hearing is the audio and one thing
that I know that he does from time to time because he spoke about it on the radio is he's like trying to determine
trying to gauge in his own mind is this an interesting call or not because if it's not boom I'm dumping this call I'm
here to put out an interesting show and we'll move on to the next caller this is
one of those ones where I think he's trying to gauge that but he he sounds like he's very intrigued by what this
guy's saying and in a way almost trying to figure out the guy maybe not to the point of identifying him but at least to
the point of trying to gauge if this guy is legit or if he is genuine in what he
is claiming to be because it's not every day that some guy calls up a radio station saying hey I've killed a dozen
women and I really just called to tell you about it and I think I mentioned earlier to to you this year when we're
putting together a schedule list you know we'll take the cases and then map out where we're going to put them on the
schedule my thought was this would be interesting to hear you dissect this call you being a Howard Stern listener
and you being into True Crime what was your thoughts and opinions on this call surprisingly it seems like in the last
couple months other people got this same idea to dissect this call and there's a
couple videos and stuff on YouTube where people are doing that well and what's really interesting uh behind the scenes
here in the garage when you brought it up I had it on my list and I thought oh this is perfect thank God he brought it
up because it's always more exciting to cover something that you're excited about but to know that your your partner
in crime is excited to cover as well so you know that it's going to be a good interesting conversation even if nobody
else hears it right but uh so I I had said well you know I heard the call again it's one that I had heard over the
years and I was always very intrigued by the call and I thought you know what this would be perfect for something for
off the Record because we're always kind of looking for True Crime but also kind
of off-the-wall topics for off the Record right you said to me you go well I think it's interesting enough maybe
maybe it goes on the regular show and then what kind of echoed that I idea was we started getting emails from people
that were saying hey have you ever heard the Howard Stern serial killer phone call uh we would love to hear a
discussion about that on the show so the listeners asked for it and here we are doing it and this call to me is is
incredibly interesting because I find myself walking the Highwire of whether I believe this guy or not right it's a
it's a balancing act and it's not that I want to believe him or it's not that I don't want to believe him it's a matter
of well what side what side of this Highwire do I fall off on do I fall on the side that this guy's legit or do I
fall on the side of well this is just somebody calling in and looking to hear their voice on their on their favorite
radio show there's a lot of things that he says along the way that really make me feel like there's there's some truths
here on this call I don't know that I would ever fully believe 100% that this guy I would of the things that he's
saying and I want to make sure that I really kind of explain that thought one the thought
being that I don't know that I would fully 100% ever believe a serial killer in their statements or their stories
because we know that one very common theme that is shared by these individuals is they are known liars and
they're known Liars throughout the entirety of their their lives and their criminal careers if you want to call it
that so even if you were sitting down with somebody that you knew was legit Ed keer uh would be one that would come to
mind somebody that is able to explain and articulate his crimes and some of his very the devious type behaviors and
things that he did throughout time you know he's able to explain those to you and he's able to help you learn from him
in in way but I also would suspect that I don't know that these guys possess the
ability to be 100% truthful at anytime and they tend to skew and mash the facts when it benefits them you know that's
kind of a a common theme with Humanity in general but um they certainly do it more often than most one thing that is
super interesting to me here is that another commonality amongst these types that we've learned over the years is
that they usually like to talk they usually want to tell somebody some of the things that they've done it's almost
a way of of bragging and I agree with that wholeheartedly normally when you're hanging out with your buddies and
somebody's telling the story and it's like you might have heard the story before and a couple years later the
story has changed a little bits and they embellish little Parts it makes the story
better but I agree with you I I don't know how much you can trust if he is a serial killer how much you could trust
him anyways that fish I caught Captain was 17 in and it weighed over 2 and2 lbs yeah and then a year later that same
fish man that thing was like 22 in 17 ft and 3.1 lb and now it's not the biggest
fish that I've ever caught even though it's grown since the time that I've caught it
it's now the second or third largest fish that I've ever caught so yeah I think I think those things happen now in
analyzing this call one things a few things that jump off the uh I was going to say jump off the page but maybe jump
out the earbuds are first he when asked his name clay he comes up with the name relatively quickly you know what I mean
like it's he's not fishing for a name to present so that to me that's interesting
and then the number of victims he says it very quick very matter of factly I've killed 12 women well a couple of things
there I think one and we've talked about this before some people have when they go into bars
with their buddies they have a Alias that they like to use or in this case I wondered if this individual or maybe
other serial killers when they would meet their victim Well normally it's like nice to meet you I'm the captain
what's your name so they would have that name maybe he's used clay in every single murder that's what I wondered
about as well because Here's the the biggest problem for serial killers and I know that's a really strange sentence to
say here is that often when they do it on a long enough timeline there will be one or two victims or survivors that get
away and usually that is their undoing that is the unra traveling and and what will lead to their apprehension now we
know that serial killers just like any other industry in life kids playing Little League Baseball they study the
guys playing Major League Baseball and they try to learn from what works and what from and from what doesn't work for
the guys in The Bigs so that maybe one day they can make it to the bigs so some of these serial killers and some of the
more organized ones at that will typ Al study known serial offenders and known serial killers and they want to know
what worked for them and what didn't work for them and they might try to employ some of those techniques that did
work and strongly avoid some of the things that didn't work or LED to their eventual apprehension now with Ted Bundy
one thing that he did and I think this shows the arrogance of Bundy was I don't think he ever thought that any of these
women were going to get away from him I don't think Bundy ever thought that they
would survive Ted Bundy once he set his plan into place once he made that determination that you were his he
believed it was going to work in his favor right and so we know from the time at the the lake shamish and and before
that the task force was actually referring to and this is during the Washington State portion of the
investigation looking for the known serial killer they knew they had a serial killer operating in the area they
didn't know who it was but during that portion of the Ted Bundy case behind the scenes the task force and the people
working that that case were actually referring to the investigation as the Ted murders yet they had not identified
the person that was committing those murders why were they calling the investigation the Ted murders or the
series of murders the Ted murders because on more than one occasion there was a female that got away or was
approached and had some kind of conversation with Ted Bundy in which he used his real name you know that's a
common interaction when you first meet somebody for the first time oh what's your name my name is Cindy what's your
name my name is my name is Ted it worked for him for a while because a lot of the
victims didn't get away but when they started looking for possible eyewitnesses and people that did get
away they're like wait a second this this person is calling himself Ted and so they called it the Ted murders but I
don't know that any of the investigators at the time believe that they thought that the guy would be dumb enough to use
his real name so I like the cut of your jib here Captain I think you might be spot on where clay might be a name that
he is using when he's picking up a sex worker hey what's your name honey oh my name's clay well what do you want uh how
much you know you got to negotiate price and and different different things you know where where this is all going to go
down those are all part of the negot iation process and I would imagine that an exchange of names and probably both
of them fictitious is going down during the course of that conversation and maybe
that's why he's able to to kind of throw out this name clay obviously we wouldn't
expect them to be giving his real name or providing his real name to Howard Stern and saying that he's killed 12
women and they've not figured out that it's me yet and so maybe this is a name that he's using to help get the eventual
victim into his vehicle if if your whole goal is to procure a victim and get a victim or potential victim into your
vehicle and we know that his vehicle was a part of his his murder technique you know part of of his scheme and what he
was doing because he said hey I've stopped for a while and part of the reason why I stopped is my vehicle broke
down I didn't have you know I that that's his lab to work in that's his that's his mobile lab to try to procure
a victim and then take them where he feels comfortable assaulting and killing them and without that vehicle he's he's
lost his playing field so to speak so there has to be some kind of exchange and you can't have a woman lean into the
vehicle and say hey honey what's your name and you go I don't want to tell you my name well that might be off-putting
to her and she might not be wanting to get into your vehicle after that exchange so maybe this is a name that he
is using during the interaction with these victims the number 12 is interesting too when he's asked you know
he says I don't know if I can't remember from the call if Howard asks him how many people he's killed or if he just
offers it up but the number of 12 seems to come out real quick right like he doesn't have to to think about it so
much and you know the detectives will often say if something is true and something is factual you don't have to
remember it right you know you don't have to spend a lot of time trying to remember it you know it you know it to
be true so that's kind of terrifying when he throws out the number 12 and does so rather
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app today [Music] all right cheers to you cheers to the people in the back cheers to the people
in the front and happy holidays not so much to the people in the middle tall hands in the air you stink hey we'll be
able to Cheers the people in the front and in the back live at a show at Brew doog February 19th
2022 that's a Saturday for you people that like to get down on a Saturday uh tickets are available we are doing the
show at brewog we are excited to be partnering with Brew dog for this this is Brew dog in itself is a destination
place it's a it's a place that you want to go and check out have if you have not
before so let me just tell you it's one of the most beautiful places in the world that's right and we're hoping to
class up the join a little bit ourselves February 19th now some people have asked
us is this a live show will you be doing what you do here in the garage and the an is well kind of um what we'll be
doing mainly is a beer tasting and we'll be doing a Q&A we will not be featuring
a a fulllength case like we would here uh for your earballs on the weekly but join us for a wonderful beer tasting the
beer included in your price of the ticket so you don't have to pay anything extra for beer once you get there
and we'll do a we'll do a wonderful Q&A we'll have some merchandise on to be clear on that when we're doing the beer
tasting everybody will have the beer samples like we have exactly it's not like oh you can drink beer with a it's
an interactive beer tasting with Nick and the captain and tickets are available on our website at true Crim
garage.com so we hope to see each and every one of you there yeah and right afterwards we'll be hanging out at the
bar doing a meet and greet so that's all included in the price but back to this call one of the things that I thought
was interesting about this clay guy is why I kind of find it humorous that he almost seemed annoyed Ed no I never said
Ed right I'm clay so you could kind of almost see his temperament a little bit yeah so you have that weird interaction
there where Howard asks is this Ed and he says no and Howard sounds bummed out and I think that's because it's not
uncommon for your you know they're screening these calls behind the scenes before that any of them make it onto the
radio so it's not uncommon especially on a show like Howard Stern where you have
hundreds of people trying to call in all at the same time where they're screening
calls and they're in Howard's one ear we can't hear it but they're saying hey we
got this guy uh Ed he claims to be a serial killer he's on line six you know and then Howard picks up is this Ed no
it's not Ed oh he sounds bummed out because he thinks well the the wires got crossed and and now he's got some guy
that he doesn't know if it's going to be an interesting call or not but very quickly yeah the the the caller
straightens out the situation by saying no I yes I've killed women but I never said my name was Ed the other thing I
thought was kind of humorous is he doesn't understand that he's talking to Howard so that one that makes me think
is he much of a Howard listener because Howard's voice is very distinct and so then he's almost I don't know 30 seconds
to a minute maybe longer I have to actually look where he's like wait is this Howard and he's like yeah this is
Howard who do you think it was and then you can hear his breathing almost changed like he becomes nervous and so
that makes me believe okay well why would you get nervous that you're actually talking to Howard would you be
nervous because now you feel like you're on the air or if you were a big fan of Howard then maybe you would you know get
nervous at the last Meetup I did this girl came up to me and we're taking a picture and she was like I'm shaking I
don't know why I'm shaking I'm like either do I so um so I thought it was kind of humorous that he he gets mad
about the mistaking of the name and then gets nervous once he figures out it's Howard well sometimes adrenaline kicks
in and it's not really up to us when it does kick in I think it comes from that part of the brain that doesn't ask for
permission it just decides boom here you go now you're like oh crap I'm shaking and I if if I had a a choice in the
matter I would choose not to be shaking but you're right and this is one thing that that always surprises me yes one
the caller not recognizing Howard's voice two they are on the call with Howard and
Robin at the same time and he doesn't he seems to fail to recognize that but this is in in the
defense of the guy claiming to be a serial killer uh this is something that I've witnessed dozens and dozens of
times on the Howard Stern Show where somebody somebody's talking for a couple minutes and then they're shocked that
they're actually talking to Howard I don't know again they're screening the calls and I don't know if the person
screening the calls ever tells the caller hey hold for Howard or okay you're on next I think they just take
down some information tell them they're putting them back on hold and if Howard picks up he picks up because the guy
screening the calls or the woman screening the calls can never guarantee that Howard's going to actually pick up
on on any of these people so but you're right there's a change in his in his speech and in his breathing and it could
be from both of those factors that you pointed out maybe maybe kind of a double whammy of oh crap I am on air I am live
a little bit of stage fright and oh I am I am talking to Howard and now I'm nervous the other thing you have to
wonder too is this guy doesn't he's not calling in because he wants to get caught there's other people he could
call if he wanted to turn himself in or to get caught yeah if he is who he says he is he's calling in to brag about what
he's done receive some of that Fame notoriety that he is seeking these are his own words he said originally I think
that I got into it because I wanted to be famous or be or be known as a serial killer and now I'm coming to realize
that I think that I do it it being killing women for a sense of power and control and so he's not calling in with
the idea of oh I want to give up every detail and every bit of information about myself so you can catch me so part
of me wanders too is there's an added factor to that nervousness that he's going oh wait a second have I already
said too much I wasn't aware that we would be on the air right well in the last 5 years we've lived a strange life
we're going on a strange Journey because we talk about these cases sometimes we bring up individuals and those
individuals might be suspects in a case that we brought up and they make contact
with the show and sometimes it's not even to clear up their name maybe they just want to have a discussion with us
and obviously they're having a discussion with us to clear up their name but they they might they might not
be upset about how it was reported because for years they've been a part of the case's story MH and so every time
somebody's reached out to me I I I always feel like the obligation one because we spoke about them and they
have thoughts and opinions on the case and since they're close to the case I always
feel obligated to to give them the time to talk with them but they're also intriguing conversations because there's
a part of you that goes this person is a suspect maybe not my favorite suspect in
the case or or somebody that I lean too heavily in favor of being the actual murderer or whoever is responsible for
the crime but in those conversations there's a part of you that's like well maybe
they will slip up maybe they'll be talking to me about the case and just go you know what this
is just too much and oh by the way I did it so I think that's probably playing through Howard's mind well it's
interesting that this guy calls and he's going to tell me all these details maybe through the act of talking about
the crimes I could get him to just and I I don't think he L leans on that too heavy mhm but I think he definitely I at
one point he even says you know I I have to ask because how how crazy would have
that call turned into if he basically said oh yeah okay well yeah this feels good to be talking about and almost
confessing to somebody and if he was telling Howard the truth that you're the only person I ever told there is a
chance that that individual then goes well this feels good to get off my chest all by the way my real name is the
captain yeah well it's again it it might be one of those situations where if this
is in fact real if he is who he says he is well then he's calling in because he's wanted some Fame and notoriety for
his acts but he can't you he can't just run out into the streets and say I'm the
guy you're looking for I'm the guy that's responsible for all the News That's hit in the papers and the bodies
that they're finding on the side of the road right because if so he's going to they're going to shut him down he's
going to be locked up and he's going to be forced to stop doing what it is that he seems to like and enjoy doing and
that's taking the lives of of these women 12 specifically is what he says and of course there's a lot of other
crimes and horrible things that go on leading up to the murders themselves and that's probably all of a all of it for
him too a driving factor for him as well this is from a book that we've been talking about a little bit here in the
garage as of late called a Killer By Design and this is by the great Anne Burgess and one thing that she's talking
about in throughout this book is how much these types usually and we got to we got to make sure we we say that
correctly usually like to talk and like to explain what it is that they are guilty
of she's talking about a case where this is the ski mask rapist and after he was
caught she goes on to say his desire to take ownership of his crimes and his habit of bragging about what he had done
as a way of defining who he is his desire to impress others by violent means was deeply disturbing of course
but it also came with an upside for our criminal personality study as a whole simonis that's uh the the man identified
as the ski Mas killer or sorry ski mask rapist simonis wanted to talk he wanted others to step inside his head so he
could relive his most violent episodes and share them with an audience forcing others to witness the rawness of the
details was a fundamental part of how his mind worked and so that kind of backs up a lot of the idea well if this
guy is in fact who he says he is why would he go out of his way if he doesn't want to get caught to go
on I mean 1997 this is almost National radio I mean by this point Howard Stern he's still on terrestrial radio but it's
he's syndicated throughout the country and in many different states especially in some of the major
cities and so why would he want to risk right because that's what he's doing he's if he is who he says he is
his risk of getting caught that number just went really way up because of this action
it's risky Behavior to call in and announce to Howard and and anybody that's listening who you are and what
you've been up to and well and I also don't think he's sitting there being that calculated on the information he's
giving there he's it's not like he's there's hesitation or that he's there's these long pause before he starts
answering stuff some of stuff is coming out of his mouth real quickly and that's
what's disturbing to me because that's where I lean on the side that this guy's telling the truth because he's he's not
struggling to come up with an answer because he's he does know what the questions are going to be before he
calls in so it's not like he can script all of his answers he does a a pretty good job too of not giving a great
physical description of himself even though you can tell at times Howard is kind of trying to bait him a little bit
you said bait and maybe get some information from him so by this is what you said it's what about a
10-minute phone call yeah so over the course of a 10-minute conversation that we listen into really the only physical
description that he offers up about himself is that he's a white male with no tattoos even so much so that when
Howard says like oh well you must be like a big powerful big strong person and what a slick answer that clay offers
up he says well I wasn't back then well that that's not even a real answer that's not yes I am a big strong huge
person or I'm a Meek little individual that's uh an extremely vague answer of well I wasn't back then right meaning he
could still be not big but exactly and again Define what is Big it's not really defined when he's asked to give an
answer so he really offers up no physical description of himself other than to say he has no tattoos no tattoos
is a direct reply to Howard on a specific question that is thrown out there and that he's a
a white male I did the same thing with this call that I did with the Brandon Lawson 911 tape listen to it one time
okay listen to it again and then immediately it was like okay let me get a pad of
paper and start dissecting it I mean it it felt like the same feeling and like I
said you see that he's perturbed because you call him Ed does understand that it's Howard find that interesting right
away and also he mentions two at least two comic book references he talks about well I saw this thing in a comic book
where the killer was painting with the victim's thumbs and then he said something like well I don't want to turn
myself in because I'd missed the next Batman movie mhm so two comic book references and then also like you said
where he goes oh well no no I'm a white male uh you have any tattoos no I wouldn't do that to myself even though
that the answer came out so quickly it could be look when you have a lot of tattoos people will ask about them and
somebody sometimes you'll hear the reply yeah I I'm too scared to do that or I don't know what I'd put on myself or I
wouldn't do that to myself so it could be just a ruse oh yeah do you have any tattoos now ah don't have any tattoos I
wouldn't do that to myself and kind of a joking answer to himself well one thing that I find
really interesting is his where he does struggle to give an answer is when he's asked if he does
drugs and he he hesitates on his answer and he throws something out there like well I did acid when I was a teenager
something like he gives some answer that's not really a direct answer to the question that that was just delivered by
Stern and one thing to me that that I really I really focused in on that because when we talk about offering up
no real description of himself well if he says yes I'm a drug user or or goes into specifics about the types of drugs
that he uses well these guys that kill five 6 7 10 12 people they usually have other crimes that they've committed
throughout the course of their lifetime and so that creates a police record the the police have a record of those
convictions use on fire and so he doesn't want to offer up that would be one thing that he really wouldn't want
to offer up besides a physical description of himself because he could be he could be in a database somewhere
you know I I need somebody that I know has been in the area for this period of time from this year to to the current
year remember this was November of 1997 of the phone call I need somebody that has has previous drug convictions we
know that he had a driver's license at one point because he says his car broke down and that was a factor in why he he
briefly stopped killing for a while um so there's some things that you can start to piece together if you really
wanted to track this down now he he says he's calling from the New Orleans area one thing that would have been really
interesting to know and this is a call as startling as it is Captain this is a call that's not referenced on the show I
I I don't know that it's ever been referenced again on on the show one that I could find but I I'm a regular
listener I don't listen to every single day or every single minute of the show obviously but uh well the information I
found about this call is supposedly the call happened and they've never discussed it ever since they didn't even
supposedly discuss it on the next segment hey remember that guy that just called us what do you think it's almost
like they had the conversation and they just moved on and and look for all we know law enforcement was listening maybe
they even got contacted by law enforcement you know hey do you have uh screeners can you tell us what number
this guy's calling from and maybe they were told legally just not to talk about it mhm well and that's one thing I
wondered like and it was never mentioned was it in fact a New Orleans area code I
would have loved if if Gary would have chimed in or whoever was screening the calls would have chimed in to let us
know that at least the guy's calling from the area that he says he's calling from well I actually believe that's
correct because when he says Howard is the one that says New Orleans oh and and and you can tell that he's a little
startled by the fact that they know that yeah he's a little off-put that that's thrown out there right away yeah and I
and I have always found that to be a little suspicious where he's going he's talking and they're like okay yeah
you're call from New Orleans and he's like yeah it's almost like he knows that might have been information that clay
didn't want to give out well and we can say this that there was an active serial
killer in New Orleans in the early 90s and the one of the more extensive articles and information that I could
find out there says that it could be up to 26 victims and this would be through the course of looks like
1991 to about 1996 now the only the only thing that I throw in there in regard to this call is that the
last victim that they have listed here the 26th victim was found in April of 1996 and Clay says that he he says that
he hasn't killed in almost a year and this Call's taking place in November of 1997 now let's Circle back around to
something else though when he is talking about how he killed some of his victims
he says a a hammer is one of them strangulation was was at least one of them and I believe he says that most of
the victims he killed with a hammer and he strangled one of them and he also says something about the strangled
victim I'm saying well that's probably one of the ones that they found so just because we don't have any
victims found after April of 1996 or or information pointing Us in that direction doesn't mean that the Call's
not legit right it doesn't mean that the call isn't legit because maybe they just
haven't found his more recent victim or victims well like you said he hesitates on when he says you know are you on
drugs and he hesitates and I wonder if that's he then follows up saying you know well I you know maybe I'd be
drinking when I'd commit these crimes you wonder what how much is this guy drinking and is he drinking and then
once he has enough beers that he's also doing some other drug and is it possible
that he just doesn't remember some of the murders yeah that's certainly a a possibility here um I would I would
guess that the the individual might not be so sloppy drunk that I mean if if he if
what he's saying is true he's been able to pull this off 12 times without getting caught yeah and he he seems to
believe that he's so far off their radar that he can call into a a a national radio show and tell tell everybody what
he's been up to yeah I thought that too but um with the drinking thing you know yes cuz I I would I would assume that
these killers would have this urge the urge is growing now they know that uh I I have to start planning I think they
start working out this this puzzle in their in their brain but I'd also think that individuals that had these urges if
they were an avid Drinker that once they got enough booze into their system that
maybe they wouldn't be able to control their their um impulses well yeah I mean often times
they will they will do something to loosen themselves up to build up the courage to because a lot of times these
are fantasies that these individuals have and they've kept to themselves their entire lives and they want to act
out these fantasies they've just never had the the guts to do it yeah and as as dumb and sick as that sounds that's
that's the truth they've they've never been able to build up the confidence or The Bravery or whatever you want to call
it to to act on these fantasies now one thing that I found interesting though too is he doesn't shy away from the fact
that one of his 12 victims was a a crossdresser that you know come to discover later during the attack or what have you
he learns that what he thought was a female victim is now a a male victim and the thing that's interesting to me about
that Captain is in this the list I was able to find of the 26 victims from 1991 to
1996 in I'm sorry 1990 yeah April 1996 in and around the New Orleans area and unfortunately they with very broad
Strokes they paint the the a picture here in the title of what the list is saying that these these 26 individuals
were all uh you know sex workers or prostitutes and I don't think I've seen some information come out from family
members of some of the the persons that have been identified that are on this list saying you know they weren't a sex
worker they're being lumped in in this group but what have you what we know here is that I don't think that it's the
same perpetrator that carried out all 26 of these murders I I don't believe that
at all I believe we're probably looking at three maybe four possibly more because a couple of
these could be just one-offs where where somebody killed just one person and they've never killed anybody else ever
again and it just happened to take place during this same time period And so they're getting kind of lumped all
together here uh but within this list of 26 there are two men that are listed and
they're thrown into that category again it's a very broad brush saying uh that these were these were sex workers in the
area and and they were they were found so oh I apologize three males because we have two that have been
identified and one that is is listed as a John Doe so again this is a weird piece of
information that somebody in the area may not know and what I mean is somebody that's
calling in to fake it may not know that that that they've tied some of these male victims in with these female
victims and they believe that they're connected at least enough to fall on the same list right and I found that
interesting now around this same time for my understanding though to Captain it was well known that there was a
serial killer in the area Andor multiple individuals that were killing you know similar women uh
similar being ages or profession uh drug users things of that nature in this time
period in fact so much so that there was a I want to make sure I I have the exact
terminology of what they were calling it back then uh I won't give out the the phone number because I don't know if it
would ring to anybody and if it did it who knows where the phone call would go because this is a task force that was in
operation in the late 90s so they had a Serial murder task force is what they were calling it that was investigating
those 26 homicides that fell onto this list so there would have been some general public awareness that this was
going on one that these murders were happening and two so much so that law enforcement has deemed this or some of
these Murders At least to be the work of a serial killer and they are treating it
as such so much so that they've formed a task force to investigate these cases well when I told a couple of my friends
hey I think we're going to try to dissect this call and I'm I'm interested to hear Nick's thoughts on this they
they would go oh yeah I'm interested to hear his thoughts too like like who cares about your thoughts Captain well
there's a couple of interesting names that are Loosely tied to this story maybe a little more strongly tied to the
story depending on who you ask but those names would be Victor Grant and Russell
Elwood so many people believe that Russell Elwood is in fact the guy calling himself clay clay the serial
killer that calls into the Howard Stern Show confessing to killing 12 women but Victor Gant is the other individual
that's referenced in relation to this story as well and he's really interesting too because it kind of falls
back on something that Clay is talking about during the phone call Victor Gant is a former law
enforcement officer who was tied to two possibly more of the slangs on that list list of 26 that that I keep
referencing so he did have as clay says in the call a direct relationship with one or two of the victims well like you
said anything in this call could have been a lie it could have be a ruse to throw people off the S and I'm trying to
look here on the Fly Captain to figure out if Victor Gant was ever prosecuted or convicted of any of these these
killings here but it doesn't look like and this is not the most updated information but the the most recent
stuff I can find on this individual is that number of victims they put it at anywhere from 0o to 27 so he may not
have been convicted of any of these actual killings but it does specify on some different websites that he is
suspected of having killed two or more of the women that are on this list the interesting thing about Victor Gant as
well when it comes to this list of of homicides here is that he seems to match some kind of physical description that
was being tossed around in relation to some of these earlier murders that were taking place in and around the New
Orleans area in 1992 so the suspect sketched then at that time depicted a large muscular
African-American man in his 30s and Gant matched that physical that be it vague but he matches that physical description
so who's this Russell lwood he is the individual that many believe is Clay the serial killer who called into the Howard
Stern Show he did go on trial in 1998 for two murders that took place in 1993 three this was the murders of Cheryl
Lewis and Dolores Mack he was found in the way that he was apprehended okay from my understanding this dude worked
as a cab driver for for quite some time I don't know if it was the full length or extent of when the killings were
going on or if it was just for a more brief period of time during the course of those killings but a couple key
things to know about Elwood is one he was not from the New Orleans area he moved there after living here in Ohio
for quite sometime and there's some information out there to suggest that he was in Ohio
for portions of these killings that he may not have even been in the area when some of these women were were abducted
and killed the way that he lands on the police radar is one taxi cab drivers are
not uncommonly listed as suspects in these types of cases especially when we're talking about sex workers so his
his job sort sort of fits what you're looking for because everybody willingly gets into a taxi cab and so it's easy to
come up with victims but they arrest him they find him police see his vehicle in
the middle of the night out in an area where they've recovered at least two bodies by this point and they find him
there sitting alone in his car and they question him you know just the basic question of well sir why are you here
while police knowing hey we've recovered bodies in this area and it wouldn't be uncommon for a serial killer to return
to the area or maybe he's here because he's getting ready to dump another victim that he has in the trunk of his
car yeah that makes sense he claims first of all he's not fully dressed which I I wish they would offer up more
detail on that because if it's 90° out and he's just not wearing a shirt that doesn't seem extremely suspicious to me
uh but they say in the report that he's not not fully dressed flicky flicky and that he claims that he's in this area
because he's going to change the oil in the vehicle and change the brake pads on
the vehicle and he wanted to be out there because he could dump the used oil out in this area and you know without
anybody having concern about it you know you're supposed to properly dispose of youed oil and he wanted to just dump it
on the side of the road well police are extra suspicious because then they search his vehicle I guess they're
Hoping to either find drugs or maybe a victim that they can save uh you know they got a lot of suspicions when
they're approaching his vehicle they don't find anything of that nature but what they also don't find is brake pads
or oil or tools to do any of the work that he claims he's going to do again he's out in near a field in Pitch Black
area he doesn't have any uh lighting to assist him in in doing any of this work so they know they've caught him in in a
lie got him now they need to know not only why are you here but two why are you in this area and then lying about
why you would be here so he looks extremely suspicious but again we have to we have to note here that he is it's
proven that during the course of some of these murders when some of these murders
took place he was not in New Orleans he was not in the state of Louisiana well like you said though there's probably
multiple Killers responsible for the the some total of the what do you say 27 yeah 20 26 is the list that I have and
eventually Elwood was charged in I believe convicted in both of the two that he was charged with I say that with
a little hesitation Captain because I know that there's been some question marks on one of those two homicides over
the years that there's been some information coming forward that he he may not have been in the area for both
of those murders it looks to me like this this Russell lwood is good for for several of these he also claimed to I
know we don't like jail house snitches the people that he was locked up with Elwood would fit good with Clay too
because he had multiple drug convictions in multiple States before he was ever charged with
any of these murders so that would make sense to me too if that wants to kind of
shy away from that in the in the portion of questioning on the Stern Show but when he was locked up in jail in
Florida facing some kind of charges there these weren't murder charges we had inmates telling law
enforcement that this is what this dude told us he was up to and apparently if we are to believe these jailhouse niches
what they're claiming is that Russell Elwood told them that his thing was he liked
to he liked to pick up a a a street walker he he would get them to do drugs whatever their drug of choice was it
could be heroin crack cocaine what have you but he would get them to shoot up he
wanted them to overdose in his in his presence and sometimes I think he's having sex with
them while they're overdosing and then he has to if they don't completely overdose
then he has to kill them by other means after the fact and that he just kind of left his victims on the side of the road
because he had no real attachment to them there was no nothing connecting him connecting victim to perpetrator in
those cases so he didn't feel compelled to conceal the bodies or go to any Great
Lengths or efforts to kind of conceal the bodies now that doesn't really fall in line with what
clay tells Howard on the phone because clay says that most of them he killed with a hammer and one of them he
strangled where the jail house snitches are telling us that oh well L would like
to make them overdose having sex with them while they're overdosing and with some of them he I think one of the
victims he she didn't die so he drowned her one of them I believe he claimed that he that he strangled her but at no
point in any of those in any of that information could I find the use of a hammer which seems to be what Clay is
saying that he's done with with most of the victims I could see his voice matching his picture well what I think
is probably most likely in this situation again when we talk about this list of 206 victims here uh we probably have a
situation where we have mul multiple perpetrators Victor gance probably responsible for a couple maybe two to
four of these Russell Elwood's probably responsible for a handful of these murders as well and this clay individual
who called in could be who he says he is and some of his victims could be on this
list as well and it's just a a a tricky a tricky situation here now on the Stern
Show we do know that it's not uncommon for them to have fake phone calls right in fact they they employ people that
call the Howard Stern Show pretending to be legit callers somebody starts making
prank phone calls to them and they're so entertaining that they offer them jobs yeah and so they would off they would
regularly have these fake calls but one thing I want to say about that is that Howard typically will move on from those
calls relatively quickly like unless their home run comedy Smash Hits he moves on from those calls very quickly
and a lot of times especially in the last 10 15 years he's also quick to point out well not quick to point out
but toward the the end of the phone call he'll point out that it's somebody in the back you know that it's one of their
staff and they've they've come up with something because that might become a character that you will regularly hear
on the show going forward because it was such a Smash Hit now a longtime listener
here telling you I don't know of a situation where somebody claims to be calling in with a serious matter there's
nothing more serious than discussing the taking of one's life I I can't recall knowing of a fake call
to be saying something of that weight of that gravity so now is it out of the realm of
possibility no because we know that he was was and is a shock jock and who knows what lengths they would go to to
shock the audience to grow the audience or keep the audience but I have a feeling here that if this is a fake call
then Clay is the fake is is the fake here not somebody calling in from the back that this is not a
manufactured call from somebody on the Stern staff well I also put a little weight to the fact that they've never
discussed it afterwards like I said they could have been CAU they could have been
contact by New Orleans police maybe even a a lawyer and and maybe that's one of the reasons why they they've never
discussed it afterwards or on the flip side they realized it was a fake and that's why they've never brought it up
again now I would believe captain that the BSU from the FBI would tell Stern and the local serial murder task force
that they had established there in New Orleans at the time this guy talking is our best weapon we want to keep him
talking so let's have him reach out let's give him a uh let's put him on speed dial so he can reach out and
communicate with Stern or somebody on the local level because he seems to want to talk and he's going to be able to
offer up some Clues if in fact he is who he says he is and we've kind of been discussing this gearing up and getting
ready for this and I think we both uh have similar thoughts and opinions no strong gut feeling either
way if I had to bet I would say that Clay is an actual serial killer I think that's
because the devils and the details and how quickly he comes up with those details and also I find it interesting
on how many times that he corrects Howard and so when he says like oh well I I originally wrote some notes and
tried to put out some Clues and and and wanted to get some press and and then when Howard like contradicts him on that
he he repeats oh no no I originally wanted that I orig originally wanted Fame I think if you're if he was lying
to Howard about that and then Howard went in a different direction you wouldn't maybe maybe you wouldn't double
down but maybe you'd just move on and just let let him be incorrect again the other reason why I would lean towards or
if I had to bet that he is telling the truth is when they state New Orleans and how shocked he seems and almost where
I'm not even going to deny that they must know somehow that I'm from New Orleans and so I have to give up that
information he doesn't seem initially like he wanted to give that up where I question myself here Captain is whether
this caller is in fact who he says he is I I think he's probably legit if I had to if I had to just give a simple answer
that would be it but a a longer less simple answer would be one I'm a little shocked at how long he stayed on the
phone if he is who he says he is because he doesn't strike me to be dumb or ignorant to the fact that there's law
enforcement looking for him so I'm a little surprised at how long he stays on the call itself and I also wouldn't be
surprised if he's fluffed his numbers a little bit where he says I've killed 12 but maybe he's not killed that many
people uh maybe he he he still could be who he says he is and not have killed 12
[Music] people [Music] and like always we want to hear your thoughts and opinions on the episode so
go to truecrime garage.com and make sure you leave a comment on the blog Colonel
do we have any recommended reading for this week that's right thank you Captain and we want to thank everybody who has
posted questions and comments on the blog throughout this wonderful year it's been a it's been a busy and exciting
blog at True Crime garage.com this week we have a great recommendation for your earballs a little recommended listening
if you have not already well then make sure you go and check out the missing person's podcast by our friends over at
ABJ entertainment True Crime garage and ABJ have been friends for years Mike Morford who many of you will remember
joined us on our zodiac episodes and I'll put the colonel stamp on this there is no better person on this Big Blue
Marble to talk zodiac with than Mike Morford and also so a big player over at ABJ is one that has helped us out here
at True Crime garage for a long time Jessica bonc court she has worked here behind the scenes for several years and
she has done some wonderful Gang Busters work for us and for ABJ we are recommending that everyone check out the
missing persons podcast because we paired up with them to feature one of our most recent cases titled Paige
coffee Paige has been missing from the Greater Cleveland area since May of 2019 her family True Crime garage and the
missing person's podcast are asking for your help we need to locate her we need answers and we are determined to get
Justice for Paige and her family True Crime garage released the paig coffee episode last week on December 7th and
this past Saturday the missing persons podcast released a page coffee episode as well there are two very different
shows and I encourage everyone to listen to both especially if you live in Ohio or the surrounding states because again
we need some help merry Christmas and happy holidays to Jessica and Mike and happy holidays to you all and everyone
and we will see you back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't
[Music] [Applause] litter [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
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Serial Killer Phone Call ////// 544

Part 1 of 1

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Longtime listeners of one of the world’s most popular and longest running radio shows have always been very creeped out by a call that came into the Howard Stern show more than 20 years ago. People have been fascinated by this call and it’s still talked about today. Back in 1997 a man calling himself “Clay” called the Howard Stern show saying he has killed 12 women and he wants to kill more. Renewed interest in this call really started popping up this last summer and here at the Garage we started receiving emails from those of you that wanted to hear the “Clay” call again. This week we crack a couple of Christmas beers and analyze the “Serial Killer Phone Call.” Merry Christmas to all and Cheers from the Garage boys!

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Brief Summary

A man named Clay claims to have killed twelve prostitutes in a 1997 call to Howard Stern, discussing his motivations and methods.

Key points

Chilling Confession. A caller claims to have killed 12 prostitutes, revealing disturbing motivations.
Intriguing Call to Howard Stern. A man calling himself Clay confesses to being a serial killer, sparking renewed interest.
The Number of Victims. The caller quickly states he has killed 12 women, raising alarms about his truthfulness.
The Ted Murders. Investigators referred to the case as the 'Ted murders' before identifying Bundy.
Nervous Caller. The caller becomes nervous upon realizing he is talking to Howard Stern.
The Ski Mask Rapist's Mindset. A chilling insight into the psyche of a violent criminal.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I wanted to send clues to baffle people.

The caller's desire for notoriety.

6:46WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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