Russell and Shirley Dermond ///Part 2/// 304 | Forensic Files

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[Music] we were pointing out the things and the facts that we know regarding this case
regarding evidence we also wanted to point out a bunch of the theories that are involved and I got to tell you
Captain there are a lot of them theories and of course some are better than others but we will go through those I
think we should also real quick go through the lack thereof evidence as we mentioned yesterday the
actual evidence right it seems like this crime was taken place outside the home so that makes it even harder to collect
the evidence yeah that's what Sheriff s SS says he believes is that the murders took place elsewhere and we know that
the body was found inside the garage so that's a big part of the reason why I think it makes this investigation so
difficult because this is what you would describe to be as a clean crime scene we
have a double homicide yet we have a very clean crime scene well right and we don't know what he means by not in the
house does he mean that the crime happen in the garage did the crime happen in the yard does he think that the crime
happened in the boat I think you're hitting on something very key to this case here I think we have Sheriff Sills
saying that the murders didn't happen inside the house you have to wonder is he including
the garage to be a part of or a portion of the actual house itself or does he mean that that is outside of the house
well like you said he randomly comes out with more information or more thoughts his own thoughts of what happened maybe
as time goes by he'll then clear up that statement of where he thinks these crimes took place so what they didn't
find as we mentioned we have SS Tex went over the durman home painstakingly for both fingerprint and luminol evidence
looking for blood evidence and the sheriff at one point even made reference to lasers so the lack of blood anywhere
except the garage led the sheriff to believe that both Shirley and Russell were not killed inside inside the house
in the house are his words Shirley's head wounds would have been would have caused spatter or blood spray and she
was brutally bludgeoned none was found we still don't know exactly how Russell was killed we can surmise that it was a
head injury as well but again the only blood that was found was the postmortem decapitation not the Fatal damage to the
skull this leads to the obvious conclusion that possibly Russell dur was killed by being shot in the back of the
head we did have the GSR residue on the back of the collar yeah and you have to follow the evidence yeah the durans
adult children walked with Sheriff Sills through the house and couldn't point to
anything that was missing we have some of the things that were found there two Rolex watches other jewelry wallets with
cash laptops cell phones the fancy cars along with everything else were all undisturbed as far as the kids knew
nothing it seemed was removed from the home by the killer or Killers so what are the more popular theories in this
case Captain there are numerous theories there are some cases that uh in some of
these cases they're quite outlandish yeah so we're going to list the most popular and most likely theories here
for you one that it was a mob hit two one of the kids did it the adult children three it was a hired
professional hit four it was an extortion plot Gone Wrong five it was someone who had a beef with one or both
of the durans six it was a case of mistaken identity seven it was simply an insane Psycho Killer looking for a
victim or victims and eight it was meth heads or other deranged druggies looking
for a big score I think that really rounds out the the most likely theories here because
those are all ones that I think we both contemplated when looking through this case and what evidence is provided to us
well I almost want to throw away the the last one druggies looking for a big score we don't have any evidence of a
perpetrator being in a house and we have all these items that could have been taken that would have been huge scores
and none of them taken right so where I think you give some Credence to that theory about the druggies would be we
have Russell durman who was we know that he went a couple places before he was killed right one he went to the bank
drive-thru at the bank someone could have spotted him there and thought okay well this guy has cash he's accessed
some cash I'm going to follow him home and then we have the other situation of him picking up a prescription ion that
very same day that's his next erand right and so you got that double whammy Factor there of okay this guy might have
cash uh he we know he went and picked up a prescription of some sort and he goes
back to this big beautiful home so I think that's where that gets some Credence the problem with that is if
that is the motive why the hell didn't they take anything her prescription medication was found on the counter we
also have jewelry expensive jewelry jewelry Rolex watches cash things that were not taken from that house I have to
believe if it's somebody looking to score in that manner they're not going to walk away from this situation
empty-handed and you'd think these would be quick kills and decapitation let's just say it it's it's a lot of extra
work and on top of that then you take somebody with you and then you tie bricks to their
their feet and to dump them somewhere else this is a bunch of extra work too right it it just doesn't seem like uh to
me the crime scene should be sloppier if this is the motive and as you mentioned
faster the method of killing and getting the hell out of there they're in the F the it could be a blow to each one of
their heads grab some stuff and go right the old Smash and grab so I think let's
check that one off the list because it doesn't check enough boxes to to Warrant being a likely situation doesn't make
any sense to me yeah so the mob hit angle uh Sheriff Sills admitted that this was on his list it in you know
through the course of his first thoughts regarding this investigation this mainly because when
he saw the body in the garage had no head one of the first things he did was he called the feds to determine whether
Russell and sure early were perhaps in a witness protection program and he learned that in fact they were not um
nonetheless many people seem to online like this theory that the durans were possibly whacked right because they both
originated from New Jersey you know land of The Sopranos and whatnot and some people believing that the decapitation
could be seen as a mafia signature proof of death something like that I I I don't
know I think this is one of those situations where this becomes a theory when all other theories fail when
you kind of run out of ideas this seems like a move to go to yeah not so fast my
friend I I think we have the attacks happening outside of the house again we don't know where Sheriff believes those
to happen but to me the decapitation with evidence of gun gunshot is a sign of something it's to
send a message to somebody agreed and then also two bodies in two different spots they could have killed her and
left her right beside him mhm they could also get decapitated her they didn't they they they put her in a body of
water to me that's a sign of something so again you don't have to be a part of a witness protection program uh to just
have some connections correct that maybe for whatever reason something went bad and and and now it's time to pay up
well I don't think that that was a method of dismissing this Theory I think it was a method
of of shuring up the theory you know what I mean like okay well let's at least check this out to see if they were
in witness protection because if they were boom that's the angle this investigation is going to go I don't
think you can cross this one off the list for several reasons many that you already pointed out but one that the
cleanliness of the crime scene the movements of the victims MH and that nothing appears to have been taken you
know that that seems like you said where we have a situation where somebody is getting retribution for something
there's something very strange to me that we have evidence of a gunshot wound to the head you you would see a lot
more blood mhm you'd see a lot more spatter mhm and why would you shoot somebody and then decapitate them right
like that that's that's a I don't know well as you pointed out and that's the same thing that a lot of people point
out here is that the removal of Russell's head and and I you know let's let's not forget that this is probably
the most morbid case we've we we've covered's no going around talking about a severed head well again we should
point out though there is the lake that very big lake nearby I I can agree with most people
when they say that it seems likely that maybe the head was discarded of in the lake at somewhere or some point but
nonetheless the the removal of the head is a sign of disrespect as people point out or perhaps was a message to someone
else MH and some people even point out maybe it was a message to his sons because remember his sons at some point
took over the restaurant business they and there was quite a bit he had franchises yeah I think we said he had
19 franchises at one time wow that he sold to his sons and so if in fact that there was some kind of mafia ties or
this was a mob hit MH the speculation is that maybe his restaurant business or or the son's
businesses which was his at one time somehow involved the mob or the the mafia well I understand that this is
deep speculation but what what about a son with a gambling problem a lot of times they go well we're not killing the
guy with the gambling problem because he's the only way we're going to get our money back but we can kill his parents
MH and we're going to do it in such such a malicious way that we're going to get
our payment especially if they know the person has the the money well then I think that makes for a good segue into
one of the other theories that we mentioned that the possibility that one of the durman kids did
it yeah but the tough thing here is we know that they were all questioned we know that they were all all of them were
Cooperative we don't know of one of them lawyering up that we know of right and they all took polygraph
test right so you're going to tell me that all three of them are geniuses and figured out how to pass the polygraph
test well and like you said they were Cooperative they were all personally interviewed by Sheriff Sills
face-to-face interviews separately several times each um none of them lived in the area
and their cell phone records for the days of May 1st through May 6th show that they were not anywhere near Lake
oone right each of them as you said took ol graph exams they passed those it seems the kids were pretty close to the
parents as well the the other problem with this is that a lot of people point out that this
is a likely scenario because the kids stood to benefit from their parents' deaths where no one else seemed to on
the surface right and some people have even said that their behavior was seen as a Loof or
uncaring because they all returned home very quick quickly after this situation well I love how everybody judges how
other people should react after a death mhm well people also point out that of course they were intimately familiar
with the durman's house with their routine and with the area but the problem with that thought of the kids
benefiting right so how you know Keith Leslie Brad how would they benefit Russell and Shirley
durans they provided for their children after after their death they had set up a will that would provide for all three
of them to split the estate evenly in the event of their deaths this of course could be pointed out for a motive for
murder each one of them stood to inherit quite a bit but the deter but the derans were almost 90 years old yeah so
whoever stood to inherit this money could have just waited a few more years for them to pass on naturally depends on
how big of a pickle you're in well that's interesting because it seems like nothing has come out about any of Keith
Lesley or Brad having significant money TR troubles well I wonder what the arrangement was on buying the
franchises you know you know what I mean like were they paying their father payments did they get a loan through the
bank to buy these things I I cannot say for certain it sounds to me like it was a pretty quick change of hands right cuz
I just wonder if if a bunch of the franchisers are failing or one of the the sons is stealing money from it and
that's the reason why it's failing well get rid of the old man and get rid of our mother as well and and now we don't
have to pay these off these just become ours right but but here's some here's some difficulties here okay um but
before we move on you mentioned Financial issues yeah um there is a rumor out there I couldn't back this
this up what I the the only solid statement I could find was that nothing has come out about any of Keith lesie or
Brad having significant money troubles the rumor that is out there is that there may have been a lean on one of
their homes I don't know which one of the children yeah but the it could be for nothing really some sometimes
there's leans on people's property like a tax lean Le they forgot to pay their property taxes so they got a tax lean or
something it could be a mistake right and that that seems like a very oh man it seems like a very small
motive to kill your parents you know what I mean so and the and the manner in which it's done I mean that has to play
that's that's evidence that we have that has to play uh a factor in when we're looking at these individuals well I but
I I could see you know some issue with your father I mean look at the what was the one that
we did U the American doctor mhm I mean here's this situation brutal murder cuts off the
fingers of the father that is vicious and I think it was postmortem but again we have a severed head
postmortem is there something in the family's past is there some sexual abuse that happened
is there was there any physical abuse that happened that would cause one of the kids to
snap if there was there's nothing to indicate anything like that no record of it every every bit of evidence that
sheriff SS says that he has found regarding the family seems that they were they were close even you know even
though not by proximity but they were close in that they had a loving relationship with their parents you
mentioned something just a second ago though that I wanted to to to piggy back on there you said the manner in MA in
the manner in which this these murders were carried out so while staying on the idea of the kids were the only ones that
had Financial motive to gain from the murders of their parents right let's point out that if one of them did it or
all of them did it let's say why would they try to hide Shirley's body because if her body weren't found which was most
likely the intent of whoever dumped her in the lake right it would tie up the durman's estate since she would have
inherited from Russell meaning the kids wouldn't receive any money until she could be declared legally dead this
would take place 7 years after her disappearance well right but most criminals and most murderers are not
Geniuses so it it might not be something they were thinking of does it make sense no it makes sense
but it's again it's I I see your point I'm pointing out that if you're going to tie up the estate of the people you kill
and maybe they didn't know that these people are 87 years old right I mean how how much longer are they going to live
naturally without risking your your own hide of going to prison for the rest of your life or getting the death sends
right you know because if if she can't be declared legally dead if she's never found and I believe that that seems to
me to be the intent of going to all that trouble to putting her in the deepest part of the lake tying the body down
this would accomplish actually the opposite of the theoretical goal to kill the parents for money well there's a
gunshot to We believe We believe there's some evidence of it right so we believe
there's a gunshot so to me it's like did did you take the head afterwards because
you thought there was a way to trace back the gun that's that's a big looming question in my brain the other one is
did you know it was the deepest part of the lake because to me that would now we're
narrowing the search because if the person knew that was the deepest part then they have to have knowledge
yes of of of that Lake system I I believe that the the whoever did this whoever dumped the body of Shirley knew
that that was one of the deeper parts of the lake yeah and that's that's a game changer and I only say that because we
went over how big the lake was mhm the chances of somebody just you know happening to that to that area just just
getting to that area by luck let's say seems unprobable to me improbable I guess you and I what I also wonder you I
have um some friends that live on on rivers and and things like that and obviously different neighbors that like
canoe and kayaks a lot of those individuals that use the water more they know more about the system but I also
wonder happen stance right the deepest part of the water is that also the most remote part of the water and so is it
happen stance because it it just so happened to be a spot that there's not as many people
around uh again I don't know the the water system that well I don't know that Lake in particular but the way that that
area is described to me would be an area that was somewhat familiar with or a popular fishing location within the
lake so one of the other theories that we touched upon or see then that makes you sorry to catch off but that makes
you wonder is this a fisherman is this a hunter gunshot dump into the body interesting one of the other
theories is was this a hired SL professional hit I think there's a lot of factors in within this theory that
are similar to maybe the mob hit um or a mob killing the other thing though too is you have to wonder could the could
one of the children hired have hired somebody to carry the out it's so difficult
because this keeps I keep going back to the fact that they're cooperative and they all pass polygraph test and I would
assume that during that test there was going to be did you kill your parents did you hire somebody to kill your
parents right do you know of another sibling hiring somebody to kill your parents you you would assume those
questions would be asked and none of the kids turned on each other at any point there doesn't seem to be any squabbling
going on within within the rank there mhm and I think there's a I think there's Credence to this uh Theory I
think there's also a few holes with this Theory I think what you hit upon earlier
of the uh it's likely because of the GSR found on Russell's shirt it seems that there was a gun involved and that he was
likely shot in the head then the head is removed that seems it seems perhaps that Russell's
head may have been removed because of a bullet was lodged in it that could have been traceable to the Hitman right and
could give the police information about what type of gun was used so this seems to be a pretty s significant area I
think the the motive for the head removal is as important as the motive for the murders in the first place or
while why any of this went down at all in the first place but so this seems like seems like also a kind of a a
sophisticated killer that would say all right well I have to remove this head now because I'm I'm with this I'm also
removing evidence connecting me to the actual murder right but then you have a situation
where you have to factor in a mistake that was made the waiting down of Shirley's body which
eventually comes to the surface and and then is found and so that there is the hole in this Theory where you're saying
okay it could be a sophist iated killer that was a hit a hired hit or professional hit on this couple so but
also you would think this person is removing a head in order to remove evidence you would think one they're not
scared of cutting open a person so they're not scared of stabbing the individual in the stomach
and the intestines to get rid of the gases that are going to bring the body up to the top well that among other
reasons is why Sheriff Sills is is quick to point out that look if this was a uh
professional Hitman they would know that a body would surface despite the concrete blocks when in advanced stages
of decom decomposition then some people point out that the killers didn't care if
Shirley's body surface that they just wanted to buy some time to get away and cause confusion as people searched for
Shirley I like Sheriff s take on this where he says you know the removal of the head seems like a sophisticated hit
but under that situation whoever carried this out would have known that that that
Shirley's body would surface at some [Music] point this show is sponsored by better
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Cheers Cheers Cheers Cheers Cheers um so continuing along the path here Captain one of the theories that
has been presented that I think has some weight to it is it was someone the killer was someone or some ones who had
a beef with one or both of the durans now keep in mind this is a very general theory right and could really include
anyone who crossed paths with the derans at any time in their long lives I think
a lot of aspects about this Theory go along with some of the other theories that we've already discussed so I don't
know how much we have to spin our tires on this one because there are aspects within this theory that would fall into
things like you know the the mafia hit the hired hit professional hired hit or the the one of the durman adult children
did it right um the other one that we got into a little bit and we we just kind of
referenced it in yesterday's show is that this could be a case of mistaken identity now I want to point out that
there is not really a lot to this Theory there's not a lot to back it up just that the killer or Killers mistook
Shirley and Russell for someone else someone that they had intended to Rob or extort for M or murder for any number of
reasons with a crime this inexplicable though was seeming no motive this could be plausible of course the mailbox
outside of their home it very clearly read durman on it in very big letters uh I guess if the killer arrived
by boat maybe they wouldn't have noticed that yeah but it it to me seems Seems farfetched um it seems like
again under this situation the killer or Killers very likely would have no ties to the durans
themselves if it's mistaken identity so as you pointed out several times why all
this movement with the victims why so much work being conducted to to lead you to murder and
then to hide the murders or convolute the crime scene after the fact it's just adding to your risk level of getting
caught or seen uh during the course of any of that of those actions and I just wonder the location what if these
murders took place on the water like on a boat you know what I mean because then
you're not moving her from the house you're returning Russell to the house mhm I got
some very opinionated thoughts on on the murders themselves M and if I dive into
to that now it it won't make as much sense but you're you're kind of tapping on the window there of what some of my
thoughts are so another idea is that it was some type of insane psycho killer who was just looking for victims the
other thought that it would be you know fall under the lines of some type of Thrill Kill striking at random to
satisfy some murderous Rage or that was the work of a serial killer I have some issues with with that thought where I
don't say it's impossible it could certainly be the case mhm but it seems to me again a lot of movements here's
the thing if you're going to if you're striking at random to fulfill some murderous rage a lot of times we've
reviewed a lot of those cases those types of cases and when we've seen those typically the officers describe the
scene as a bloodbath and this is not the situation at the Der 's home at all right and
furthermore it's not it doesn't appear to be any type of sex crime there's no sexual assault or rape involved and then
on top of that we have this too if it's the work of the serial killer well where
is the series of crimes it it it just doesn't too it just doesn't hold up to me that
it I don't think that any of those things work unless it's one of those weird situations where we have somebody that
sets out to to put together this Fantastical murder scene and then they just stop that that
whatever for whatever it did it C it cured them or it it satisi it satisfied the Earth exactly exactly now but yeah
you'd think there'd be something you know within that you know closer to within that time period
another murder and something similar I keep going back to the thought that this is some type of heist and I know that
the big problem with that and this is the problem where I keep I keep scraping my brain here because I'm like nothing
was taken now that we know of that we know of let's Point that's the problem yeah and I'm glad that you bring that up
because some of the stuff like a Rolex that don't that doesn't mean [ __ ] to some people but what if they had well
there's problems there's problems with a Rolex and in items like that too because
if you're looking to turn that into money that can lead to you getting caught right we don't know if they had
Stacks and stacks of cash somewhere I bet there's things that their kids didn't even know about is
there some item that they had that was worth a lot of money or possibly was worth a lot of money mhm or did they
have Stacks and stacks of cash that maybe they didn't tell anybody about and somebody found out about it again my
problem with this idea is why kill her and that fashion why dump her into the water why decapitate this guy M you
don't have to do that to get the prize yeah yeah to me that to me it points in every sign of you are going to
suffer whether it's her going to suffer or he's going to suffer somebody's going
to suffer mhm so yeah well here's one thing that that I want to really kind of dive into
here because I got a lot of opinions on this all right it's been pointed out by Sheriff
Sills that he thinks and this is after years of I mean he says he wakes up thinking about this
case and all he can come up with is that this whole whatever was supposed to go down just didn't go down the way that it
was supposed to and that's why we are uh left with so many questions really what little answers we do have
and what little evidence we do have just adds to the long list of questions well I think we have to
remember that sometimes things just don't make sense that sometimes things just don't add up well his General
thought is that it was the original idea was some type of heist that this was some type of extortion
plot that just went wrong his thoughts are that maybe whoever came to their home they were trying to get from the
durans either something that the durans just didn't have right or didn't have access to could be the wrong person like
you said somebody goes and hears that this couple has something they show up it's it's the wrong
house let us into the safe give us this piece what about this piece of art whatever it is we don't have that we
don't know what you're talking about that goes into gun accidentally going off boom killing the guy now we got to
take his head because we we're leaving behind evidence this is plausible well I think let's talk about
some home invasions that we have discussed already on this show in the past because I think when I see the when
I see the crime scene when I when they describe what it is there what is left the how
Mr Mr durman was dressed MH everything appears to me that this was some type of home
invasion it looks to me like these two individuals were just in their home or on their property going about their day
and it some point they're disrupted by who would end up being the killer or killers in this
situation and so along that thought of a possible home invasion in the past the home invasions that we've covered uh the
ones that come to mind right now the Aurora Hammer Slayer Colorado 1984 M this is a child rapist child killer
Alexander Ying who he killed several people the motive there is rape that's why he entered the home right okay and
very likely rape and murder this guy was was a homicidal maniac yeah piece of [ __ ] these also were very messy crime
scenes so we know that the we have to go off of that rape was very likely not the
motive because that did it just didn't happen then we have a situation where we have like the the Cheshire
murders we have the DC mansion murders and we have Barry and honey Sherman who we talked about yeah it's still it's
still fascinating to me that the Barry and honey Sherman is not solved I know it just took place in
2017 this is another situation where there's a a very clean crime scene uh but the situation here is we
have with the Cheshire murders the motive was money and rape DC mansion murders money uh Barry and honey Sherman it's a
little it's a little undetermined and undecided what exactly the motive was there's thought that it could have been
money could have been for Revenge I think most people point to Revenge as Barry seemed to have created a lot of um
work enemies throughout the throughout his career but in the Cheshire murders it's money and rape DC mansion
murders money Barry and honey Sherman undetermined mhm possibly Revenge so when we look at all those cases when we
look at those four cases the only possibilities that we're left with is that the motive would be money and or
Revenge right so let's kind of T table that just for a moment and and just kind of can we agree that the most likely
motive here is either money or revenge or both MH so one thing that I'm going to kind of just throw out there I don't
have any answers to this I I've I've I've been trying to come up with answers for this for the past few days every
time I come up with what I think is a good answer I then realiz that it's probably not but one thing that that
sheriff Sills has said in some of his interviews that I think is incredibly interesting remember we have the
neighbor who says that they saw a man in the durman's yard on that Saturday yeah
and remember we said well do can we believe this witness or not and we have Sheriff Sills on record in front of the
camera saying he believes this individual and when asked why he believes this individual he says I
believe them because of what they didn't see tells me that they are telling the truth I don't know what that means right
I think what it could mean is that law enforcement does have something some piece of evidence that they have not
told us about to indicate that there is some something of fact that they know that this individual was able to
tell them was not on this person or with this person that they saw MH to back that up
so if Sheriff Sills believes this individual I believe this individual so where I go to with this
extortion plot gone wrong think about both the DC Mansion murder murders and the Cheshire murders what happened in
both of those situations both of those were were well-to-do families and the DC mansion murders
those people were extremely wealthy but in both situations when The Killers got into the home what did they find
especially in the Cheshire murders they found that there wasn't a bunch of valuable things in here or their items
and we don't want to leave with items we need cash right and in the Cheshire casee there was no cash in the house MH
we get to the DC mansion murders there was Cash in the house but uh there were guns in that same location the victim
didn't want this man to be to know that there were guns in the house right because likely the offender was going to
get to those guns before he was going to get to those guns mhm so in both cases we have a situation where somebody spots
this fancy house of these well-to-do people and they assume that there might be a pile of cash inside the
house then they get into the situation and they realize that it's not that and now holy [ __ ] my plan is not going to
work out the way that I thought it would be I actually think in this situation we're probably dealing with somewhat of
s maybe some slightly sophisticated people in the sense that I think they put a lot of time and effort into the
thoughts of carrying out how they were going to extort these people I think that the evidence will
point that this is very likely the situation I think that Russell was held at the home and in the garage I actually
believe he was very likely shot with the single shot to the head in the garage and I think that yes there
there's not a whole lot of evidence to suggest that but there are ways to go about that to help um make sure that
that doesn't happen and in the course of that then now we have the body that was
moved slightly head removed and then then towels put down so that the blood would not seep out from the garage door
onto onto the driveway which may alert somebody that something horrible has happened inside this house but I think
what went down is and this is a little complicated but I think somebody pulled up in a
boat near their home or even possibly at their dock went into the house and it had to have been more than
one person under my scenario right I think Shirley was removed from the home and I think Russell was kept at the home
and I think that whatever they thought they were going to get from these people they could extort it through Russell by
saying we've got your wife elsewhere yeah she's on a boat she's on a boat and out on this big lake and furthermore we
can take her wherever we want to at this point mhm you we need you to stay here stay behind so we can get from you
whatever it is we came to intended to get and I think I think that then what happened was that they realized this is
not so simple that just like the Cheshire murders and the DC mansion murders [ __ ] whatever we came to get
they don't have that in this house yeah or the fact that Russell was a World War
II vet and maybe took his chances I think that plays into it and we're talking about people that didn't even
have ATM cards so then what if they what if the killer finds himself in a situation where not only do they not
have what I came here to get they can't easily access it without or gain access to it without me getting
noticed right you know because let's go in your garage let's get in your car so we can go to the ATM and you can get me
some money since you don't have any money here I don't have a ATM card mhm are you lying to me old man no I don't
have one I'm with you I think that Russ being a World War II vet I think at some point
he turned and he went after this person yeah and I think that that led to his demise I'm not saying he did anything
wrong no cuz I think you need to yeah I I think look in a lot of these cases if you don't go after person you have no
chance and I just keep hearing about these cases when I'm talking to these detectives and and cops working on new
cases for the show and they'll say yeah this guy kidnapped this girl and she had
10 12 chances to run and never did mhm or had five or six chances to fight back and she never did and and they still
caught the person but but she might have been able to save her own life mhm and I
just can't get over that you know the the percentages you know are not in your favor if you don't fight back in the DC
case they had to have somebody bring money to the home to pay the person that was holding them captive yeah the durans
likely didn't have somebody to do this in the Cheshire case they took the mother to the bank and had her withdraw
yeah and they picked they picked up one of the individuals on surveillance and the mother was brave enough to tip off
the people at the bank which ended up leading to the capture and arrest of the two individuals that carried out those
horrible crimes I think we have a situation where maybe the offenders got into a situation where they realized
this isn't going to go the way that I I want and when it wasn't going the way that they wanted they either carried out
one of their threats against Shirley and that's when Russell lashed out or that it just the situation just got murky and
Russell lash lashed out we we're talking about World War II veteran we're we're talking about these were man is in his
80s yeah we're we I understand that he's old but we're talking about a generation
of men and women that that saved the entire world I mean think about that for a minute the these are people that aren't
going to back down and what I think happened here is that these individuals very likely got
away with very little if anything from the home and murder two people for no reason at all at the end of the day with
no gain and the twers theory makes quite a bit of sense but I feel like it's also a risky move because if
you have her out on the water it seems like like you could be surrounded easier I think very likely the movement of the
victims would be by some type of design and by necessity these outcomes are the result of a designed attack structured
by resources and tools that the offenders had with them the killer Killers accessed and left the property
in my opinion via boat so that means that one of the offenders either owned or borrowed a boat at the
time of these murders I think that these men are not criminals in the sense that they are not
thugs but I think they do have some form of Street smarts I think there's probably a leader
of this group and people closest to him like his his wife or girlfriend will know him to be a liar manipulative he is
some form of a small gambler he is someone that not only believes in cheating the system he likely brags to
his significant other about stealing from his employer whether it be money materials or time I think it's also
somebody that hates Authority because through his delusional opinion of himself and his intelligence he thinks
he is the authority I think the important thing here to keep in mind and to really focus
on are some factors of Who's Who these guys could be I think that at least two or more of
these guys are probably into hunting and fishing at least one of them owned a boat at the time of the murders or
borrowed one from someone that he is close to and I think that that's where you might be able to get the crack in
your case where if we have somebody that can come forward and say look I know so and
so and they were out with their buddies on a quote unquote fishing trip and gone
for a large portion of that day or gone for a long period of time and maybe when
that individual returned they weren't the same MH so the boat I think is the key to to finding this person and like
you Captain I believe that at least one of these individuals had a good knowledge a good understanding of that
Lake and for that I feel that out of our offenders I believe that at least two of
them were somewhat local to this crime meaning that they lived in one of the four counties where Lake okone
is this may also require them to drive and own some type of vehicle that would allow them to move a boat where this
case could get some legs is if in fact there were multiple multiple offenders as I pointed out there very
likely was one leader or leaders amongst that group I think that somewhere in that group there might be somebody who
is somewhat of a victim themselves even though they went along with this plot I think that it's somebody that was told
that we are not going to hurt anybody we have nothing to lose we have everything
to gain all we're going to do is go out there and we're going to make some money
and at the end of the day that didn't happen and at the end of the day two people were brutally
murdered I think that there's a chance that this individual feels that they've been bullied because of that situation
they went along with something they didn't fully understand something they didn't fully agree with they've remained
quiet to this day probably out of fear of the leader or the others in the group what we need is somebody that
knows one of these individuals that knew that they were out on the water that day
that knows them to be truly a despicable person to come forward with that information give that name so they can
be looked at so they can be interviewed or we need one member of that group to break Rank and to come forward and not
allow the others in the group to bully them or threaten them further and say look this is what I did this is who was
involved this is how and why why we did it and turn those other individuals in one that's the only way you're ever
going to Free Yourself of the threat of bodily harm or murder to yourself and two this is something you
probably feel extremely guilty for and you should but coming forward and telling
the truth is the first step and freeing yourself of the weight of that guilt now 5 years after the murders we
still have very few Clues as to who murdered Russell and Shirley durman we don't know why or fully how or when
these brutal attacks on this couple occurred but there may be some hope as of March
2019 Sheriff SS says he has a gut feeling about who is responsible for the murders intuition based on his decades
as a law man he says these are two people who have been interviewed and who have
refused polygraph test M he told the media as far back as May 2015 that he had a Person of Interest
Who had not been truthful with him but he doesn't have enough to elevate that person to a suspect Sheriff Sills has
always said that he believed the case involved more than one killer and that it was someone who knew the Der
or whom the durans likely knew in return he adds this was a planned target attack
not randomized violence but it is also indicative of a local someone very familiar with the
lake he says he is convinced The Killers arrive by boat but in recent months he says he's less sure of that but we know
that he has at least one piece of forensic evidence that he will not reveal mhm SS has likened this case to that of
Tera grinstead which broke after a phone call to police 12 years after the fact and resulted in the arrest of two
suspects who were not on investigators radar just like the frustrated sheriff and the durman family all we can do now
is wait to see if something breaks all right and make sure you check us out on the Stitcher app it's free you can
get all of our old episodes and check out our other show off the Record available only on Stitcher premium until
next time be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've
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Russell and Shirley Dermond /// Part 2 /// 304

Part 2 of 2

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On Tuesday, May 6th 2014 - A woman called Putnum County, Georgia 911. She reported she was at the home of friends checking on them. The elderly couple had been missing for days. She called because inside the home she found someone dead in the garage that she could not identify. This is a crime and mystery that continues to haunt the state of Georgia to this day. Join us in the garage as we discuss this fascinating case. Beer of the Week - Southern Pecan Nut Brown Ale by Lazy Magnolia Brewing Garage Grade - 3 and 3 quarter bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

The episode examines the unsolved double homicide of Russell and Shirley Durman, discussing various theories and potential suspects.

Key points

Game Changer Technology. Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback transform language learning.
True Crime Garage Introduction. Join hosts Nick and Captain as they dive into a chilling true crime case.
Theories of the Duran Murders. Exploring various theories surrounding the mysterious double homicide of Russell and Shirley Duran.
Theories of Murder. Exploring various theories behind the murders, including hired hits and mistaken identity.
Sheriff's Insight. Sheriff Sills believes the case was an extortion plot gone wrong.
Sheriff's Gut Feeling. Sheriff Sills has a gut feeling about who is responsible for the murders.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you.

Host introduction

1:56WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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