Russell and Shirley Dermond ///Part 2/// 304 | Forensic Files

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[Music] we were pointing out the things and the facts that we know regarding this case
regarding evidence we also wanted to point out a bunch of the theories that are involved and I gotta tell you
captain there are a lot of them theories and of course some are better than others but we will go through those I
think we should also real quick go through the lack thereof evidence as we mentioned yesterday the actual evidence
right it seems like this crime was taking place outside the home so that makes it even harder to collect the
evidence yeah that's what sheriff said SILS says he believes is that the murders took place elsewhere and we know
that the body was found inside the garage so that's a big part of the reason why I think it makes this
investigation so difficult because this is what you would describe to be as a clean crime scene we have a double
homicide yet we have a very clean crime scene wall ray and we don't know what he
means by not in the house does he mean that the crime happened in the garage did the crime happen in the yard does he
think that the crime happened in a boat I think you're hitting on something very
key to this case here I think we have sheriff sills saying that the murders didn't happen inside the house you have
to wonder is he including the garage to be a part of or a portion of the actual house itself or does he mean that that
is outside of the house well like you said he randomly comes out with more information or more thoughts his own
thoughts of what happened maybe as time goes by he'll then clear up that statement of where he thinks these
crimes took place so what they didn't find as we mentioned we have sales tax went over
the Derman home painstakingly for both fingerprint and luminol evidence looking for blood evidence and the sheriff at
one point even made reference to lasers so the lack of blood anywhere except the
garage led the sheriff to believe that both Shirley and Russell were not killed inside the house in the house are his
words Shirley's head wounds would have been would have caused spatter or blood spray
and she was brutally bludgeoned none was found we still don't know exactly how Russell was killed we can surmise that
it was a head injury as well but again the only blood that was found was the post-mortem decapitation not the fatal
damage to the skull this leads to the obvious conclusion that possibly Russell Derman was killed by being shot in the
back of the head we did have the GSR residue on the back of the collar yeah and you have to follow the evidence yeah
the durman's adult children walk to his sheriff sills through the house and couldn't point to anything that was
missing we have some of the things that were found there too Rolex watches other
jewelry wallets with cash laptops cell phones the fancy cars along with everything else we're all undisturbed as
far as the kids knew nothing it seemed was removed from the home by the killer or killers so what are the more popular
theories in this case captain there are numerous theories there are some cases that in some of these cases
they're quite outlandish you know so we're gonna list the most popular and most likely theories here for you one
that it was a mob hit - one of the Derman kids did it the adult children three it was a hired
professional hit four it was an extortion plot gone wrong five it was someone who had a beef with one or both
of the durman's six it was a case of mistaken identity seven it was simply an insane psycho killer looking for
victim or victims an 8 it was meth heads or other deranged druggies looking for a
big score I think that really rounds out the the most likely theories here because those are all ones that I think
we both contemplated when looking through this case and what evidence is provided to us well I almost want to
throw away the the last one drug he's looking for a big score we don't have it any evidence of a perpetrator being in
the house and we have all these items that could have been taken that would have been huge scores and none of them
taken right so we're I think you give some credence to that theory about the druggies would be we have Russell Derman
who was we know that he went a couple places before he was killed right one he went to the bank
drive through the bank someone could have spotted him there and thought okay well this guy has cash he's accessed
some cash I'm gonna follow him home and then we have the other situation of him picking up a prescription that very same
day that's his next errand right and so you got that double whammy factor there of okay this guy might have cash he we
know he went and picked up a prescription of some sort mm-hm and he goes back to this big beautiful home so
I think that's where that gets some credence the problem with that is if that is the motive why the hell didn't
they take anything her prescription medication was found on the counter we also have jewelry
expensive Julie jewelry Rolex watches cash things that were not taken from that house I have to believe if it's
somebody looking to score in that manner they're not gonna walk away from this situation empty-handed
and you'd think these would be quick kills and decapitation let's just say it it's it's a lot of extra work and on top
of that then you take somebody with you and then you tie bricks to their their feet and to dump them somewhere else
this is a bunch of extra work to write it this doesn't seem like to me that crime
scenes should be sloppier if this is the motive and as you mentioned faster the method of killing and getting the hell
out of there they're in the master the it could be a blow to each one on their heads grab some stuff and go right the
old smash-and-grab so I think let's check that one off the list because it doesn't check enough boxes to to warrant
being a likely situation doesn't make any sense to me yeah so the mob hit angle sheriff sills admitted that this
was on his list it was in you know through the course of his first thoughts regarding this
investigation this mainly because when he saw the body in the garage had no head one of the first things he did was
he called the feds to determine whether Russel and Shirley were perhaps in a witness protection program and he
learned that in fact they were not nonetheless many people seemed to online like this theory that the durman's were
possibly whacked right because they both originated from New Jersey you know land
of The Sopranos and whatnot and some people believing that the decapitation could be seen as a mafia signature proof
of death something like that I I don't know I think that this is one of those situations where this becomes a theory
when all other theories fail when you kind of run out of ideas this seems like a move to go to mm-hmm
not so fast my friend either I think we have the attacks happening outside of the house again we don't know where
sheriff believes those two happen but to me the decapitation with evidence of a gunshot is a sign
something it's to send a message to somebody agreed and then also to bodies and to different spots they could have
killed her and left her right beside him mm-hmm they could also get decapitated her they
didn't they put her in a body of water to me that's a sign of something so again you don't have to be a part of a
witness protection program to just have some connections correct that may be for
whatever reason something went bad and and and now it's time to pay up well I don't think that that was a method of
dismissing this theory I think it was a method of of shirring up the theory you know what I mean like okay well let's at
least check this out to see if they were in witness protection right because if they were boom that's the angle this
investigation is going to go I don't think you can cross this one off the list for several reasons many that you
already pointed out but one that the cleanliness of the crime scene the movements of the victims and that
nothing appears to have been taken you know that that seems like you said where we have a situation where somebody is
getting retribution for something there's something very strange to me that we have evidence of a gunshot wound
to the head you you would see a lot more blood mm-hmm you'd see a lot more spatter hmm and why would you shoot
somebody and then decapitate them right if that that's a that's a I don't know well as you pointed out and that's the
same thing that a lot of people point out here is that the removal of rustles had and and I you know let's let's not
forget that this is probably the most morbid case we've we've covered there's the lado going around talking
about a severed head well again we should point out though there is the lake that very big lake nearby I I can
agree with most people when they say that it seems likely that maybe the head was discarded of it in the lake at
somewhere some point but nonetheless the the removal of the head is a sign of disrespect as people point
out or perhaps was a message to someone else and some people even point out maybe it was a message to his sons
because remember his sons at some point took over the restaurant business they um and there's quite a bit hidden
franchises yeah I think we said he had 19 franchises at one time Wow that he sold to his sons and so if in
fact that there was some kind of mafia ties or this was a mob hit the speculation is that maybe his restaurant
business or the sons businesses which was his at one time somehow involved the mob or the
the Mafia while I understand that this is deep speculation but well what about a son with a gambling problem hmm a lot
of times they go well we're not killing the guy with a gambling problem because he's the only way we're gonna get our
money back but we can kill his parents hmm and we're gonna do it in such such a malicious way that we're gonna get our
payment especially if they know the person has the money well then I think that makes for a good segue into one of
the other theories that we mentioned that the possibility that one of the Derman kids did it
so the tough thing here is we know that they were all questioned we know that they're all all of them were cooperative
we don't know of one of them lawyering up hmm but we know of right and they all took polygraph tests right so you're
gonna tell me that all three of them are geniuses and figured out on the past the
polygraph test well and like you said they were cooperative they were all personally interviewed by sheriff sills
face-to-face interviews separately several times each none of them lived in the area and their
cell phone records for the days of May 1st through May 6th show that they were not anywhere near Lake Oconee right each
of them as you said took polygraph exams they pass those it seems the kids were pretty
close to the parents as well the the other problem with this is that a lot of people point out that this is a likely
scenario because the kids stood to benefit from their parents deaths where no one else seemed to on the surface
right and some people have even said that their behavior was seen as aloof or uncaring because they all returned home
very quickly after this situation I love how everybody judges how other people should react after a death mm-hmm
well people also point out that of course they were intimately familiar with the durman's house with their
routine and with the area but the problem with that thought of the kids benefiting right so how you know Keith
Lesley Brad how would they benefit Russell and Shirley durman's they provided for their children after their
death they had set up a will that would provide for all three of them to split the estate evenly in the event of their
deaths this of course could be pointed out for a motive for murder each one of them stood to inherit quite a bit but
the determent but the durman's were almost 90 years old so whoever stood to inherit this money could have just
waited a few more years for them to pass on naturally it depends on how big of a
pickle you're in well that's interesting because it seems like nothing has come out about any of Keith Leslie or Brad
having significant money troubles well I wonder what the arrangement was on buying the franchise's you know yeah I
mean like were they paying their father payments did they get a loan through the
bank to buy these things I cannot say for certain it sounds to me like it was a pretty quick change of hands right
because I just wonder if if a bunch of the franchisors are failing or one of the the sons is stealing money from it
and that's the reason why it's failing well get rid of the old man and get rid of our mother as well and
now we don't have to pay these off he's just become ours right but but here's some here's some difficulties here okay
but before we move on you mentioned financial issues yeah there is a rumor out there I couldn't back this up what I
the the only solid statement I could find was that nothing has come out about any of Keith Leslie or Brad having
significant money troubles the rumor that is out there is that there may have been a lien on one of their homes I
don't know which one of the children yeah but the it could be for nothing really some sometimes there's liens on
people's property like a tax lien leaf they forgot to pay their property taxes so they got a tax lien or something it
could be a mistake right and that that seems like a very man it seems like a very small motive to kill your parents
you know what I mean so and the and the manner in which it's done I mean that has to play that's
that's evidence that we have that has to play it a factor and when we're looking
at these individuals well I like but I I could see you know some issue with your
father I mean I look at the was the one that we did the American doctor mm-hmm I
mean here's the situation brutal murder cuts off the fingers of the Father that is vicious and I think it was postmortem
but again we have a severed head post-mortem is there something in the family's past is there some sexual abuse
that happened is there was there any physical abuse that happened that would cause one of the kids to snap if there
was there's nothing to indicate anything like no no record of it every every bit
of evidence that sheriff sills says that he has found regarding the family seems
that they were there were close even you know even though not by proximity but they were close in that they had a
loving relationship with their parents you mentioned something just a second ago though that I wanted
to piggyback on there you said the manner and meant in the manner in which this these murders were carried out so
while staying on the idea of the kids were the only ones that had financial motive to gain from the murders of their
parents right let's point out that if one of them did it or all of them did it let's say why would they try to hide
Shirley's body because if her body weren't found which was most likely the intent of whoever dumped her in the lake
right it would tie up the durman's estate since she would have inherited from Russell meaning the kids wouldn't
receive any money until she could be declared legally dead this would take place seven years after her
disappearance all right but most criminals and most murders are not geniuses so it it might not be something
they were thinking of does that make sense no it makes sense but it's again it's I see your point I'm pointing out
that if you're going to tie up the estate of the people you kill and maybe they didn't know that these people are
87 years old right I mean how how much longer are they going to live naturally without risking your your own hide of
going to prison for the rest of your life or getting the death sentence right you know because if if she can't be
declared legally dead if she's never found and I believe that that seems to me to be the intent of going to all that
trouble to putting her in the deepest part of the lake tying the body down this would accomplish actually the
opposite of the theoretical goal to kill the parents for money well there's a gunshot do we believe we believe there's
some evidence of it right so we believe there's a gunshot so to me it's like TV did you take the head afterwards because
you thought there was a way to trace back the gun that's that's a big looming question in my brain the other one is
did you know it was the deepest part of the lake because to me that would now we're
narrowing the search because if the person knew that was the deepest part then they'd have to have knowledge yes
of that Lakes I believe that the the whoever did this whoever dumped the body of surely knew
that that was one of the deeper parts of the lake yeah and that's the answer came
change and I only say that because we went over how big the lake was the chances of somebody just you know
happening to that to that area just just getting to that area by luck let's say seems unprofitable to me improbable
thank you well and I what I also wonder and I have some friends that live on rivers and things like that and
obviously different neighbors that like canoe and kayaks a lot of those individuals that use the water more they
know more about the system but I also wondered happenstance right the deepest part of the water is that also the most
remote part of the water and so is it happenstance because it just so happen to be a spy that there's not as many
people around again I don't know the the water system that well I don't know that
Lake in particular but the way that that area is described to me would be an area
that was somewhat familiar with or a popular fishing location within the lake hmm so one of the other theories that we
touch upon or I'll say then that makes you sort of catch off but that makes you wonder is this a fisherman is this a
hunter gunshot dumped into the body and arresting one of the other theories is was this a hired slash professional hit
I think there's a lot of factors in within this theory that are similar to maybe the mob hit
or of mob killing the other thing though too is you have to wonder could the could one of the children hired have
hired somebody to carry this out it's so difficult because this keeps I keep going back to the fact that they're
cooperative and they all pass polygraphs tests and I would assume that during that test there was going to be did you
kill your parents did you hire somebody to kill your parents right do you know of another sibling hiring
somebody to kill your parents you you would assume those questions would be asked and none of the kids
turned on each other at any point there doesn't seem to be any squabbling going on within within the ranks there mm-hmm
and I think there's a cup I think there's credence to this theory I think there's also a few holes with this
theory I think what you hit upon earlier of the it's likely because of the GSR found on Russell's shirt it seems that
there was a gun involved and that he was likely shot in the head then the head is
removed that seems it seems perhaps that Russell's head may have been removed because of a bullet was lodged in it
they could have been traceable to the Hitman right and could give the police information about what type of gun was
used so this seems to be a pretty significant area I think the the motive for the head removal is as important as
the motive for the murders in the first place or while why any of this went down
at all in the first place but so this seems like seems like also a kind of a sophisticated killer that would say all
right well I have to remove this head now because I'm with this I'm also removing evidence connecting me to the
actual murder right but then you have a situation where you have to factor in a mistake that was made the waiting down
of Shirley's body which eventually comes to the surface and and then is found and
so that there is the hole in this theory where you're saying okay it could be a sophisticated killer that was a hit a
hired hit or a professional hit on this couple so but also you'd think this person is removing a head in order
to remove evidence you would think one they're not scared of cutting open a person so they're not scared of stabbing
the individual in the stomach and the intestines to get rid of the gases that are gonna bring the body up to the top
well that among other reasons is why sheriff's elza's is quick to point out that look if this was a professional hit
man they would know that a body would surface despite the concrete blocks when in advanced stages of decomp
decomposition then some people point out that the killer's didn't care if Shirley's body surface that they just
wanted to buy some time to get away and cause confusion as people searched for Shirley I like sheriff sills take on
this where he says you know the removal of the head seems like a sophisticated hit but under that situation whoever
carried this out would have known that that the Shirley's body would surface at some point
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cheers Cheers so continuing along the path here captain one of the theories that has
been presented that I think has some weight to it is it was someone the killer was someone or someone's who had
a beef with one or both of the durman's now keep in mind this is a very general theory and could really include anyone
who crossed paths with the durman's at any time in their long lives I think a lot of aspects about this theory go
along with some of the other theories that we've already discussed so I don't know how much we have to spin our tires
on this one because there are aspects within this theory that would fall into things like you know the the Mafia had
the hired hit professional hired hit or that the one of the Derman adult children did it right the other one that
we got into a little bit and we we just kind of referenced it in yesterday's show is that this could be a case of
mistaken identity now I want to point out that there is not really a lot to this theory there's not a lot to back it
up just that the killer or killers mistook Shirley and Russell for someone else someone that they had intended to
rob or extort for Mark or murder for any number of reasons with a crime this inexplicable though with seemingly no
motive this could be plausible of course the mailbox outside of their home it very clearly read Derman on it
and very big letters I guess if the killer arrived by boat maybe they wouldn't have noticed that yeah but it
to me seems seems far-fetched it seems like again under this situation the killer or killers very likely would have
no ties to the durman's themselves if it's mistaken identity so as you pointed out several times why all
this movement with the victims why so much work being conducted to to lead you to murder and then to hide the murders
or convolute the crime scene after the fact it's just adding to your risk level of getting caught or seen during the
course of any of that of those actions and I just wonder the location what if these murders took place on the water
like on a boat you know I mean because then you're not moving her from the house you're returning Russell to the
house mm-hmm I got some very opinionated thoughts on on the murders themselves and if I dive into that now it won't
make as much sense but you're you're kind of tapping on the window there of what some of my thoughts are so another
idea is that it was some type of insane psycho killer who was just looking for victims the other thought that it would
be you know fall under the lines of some type of thrill kill striking it random to satisfy some murderous rage or that
was the work of a serial killer I have some issues with with that thought where I don't say it's impossible it could
certainly be the case but it seems to me again a lot of movements here's the thing if
you're going to if you're striking at random to fulfill some murderous rage a lot of times we've reviewed a lot of
those cases those types of cases and when we've seen those typically the officers described the scene as a
bloodbath and this is not the situation at the durman's home at all right and furthermore it's not as it doesn't
appear to be any type of sex crime there's no sexual assault or rape involved and then on top of that we have
this - if it's the work of the serial killer but where is the series of crimes it
Just Desserts - it just doesn't hold up to me that I don't think that any of those things work unless it's one of
those weird situations where we have somebody that sets out to to put together this fantastical murder scene
and then they just stop did that whatever for whatever it did it showed them or it where the [ __ ] it satisfied
that exactly exam out but yeah you'd think there'd be something you know within that you know closer to within
that time period another murder and something similar I keep going back to the thought that this is some type of
heist and I know that the big problem with that and this is the problem where I keep I keep scraping my brain here
because I'm like nothing was taken now that we know that we know of let's play that's the problem
yeah and I'm glad that you bring that up because some of the stuff like Rolex that no that doesn't mean [ __ ] to some
people but what if they have their saw them there's problems with the Rolex and in items like that too because if you're
looking to turn that into money that can lead to you getting caught right we don't know if they had stacks and stacks
of cash somewhere I bet there's things that their kids didn't even know about is there some item that they had that
was worth a lot of money or possibly was worth a lot of money hmm or do they have stacks and stacks of
cash that maybe they didn't tell anybody about and somebody found out about it again my problem with this idea is why
kill her in that fashion why dump her into the water why decapitate this guy mm-hm you don't
have to do that to get the prize yeah yeah to me that to me it's points in every sign of you are gonna suffer
whether it's her gonna suffer or he's going to suffer somebody's gonna suffer so yeah well here's one thing that that
I want to really kind of dive into here does it got a lot of opinions on this all right it's been pointed out by
sheriff sills that he thinks and this is after years I mean he says he wakes up thinking about this case and all he can
come up with is that this whole whatever was supposed to go down just didn't go down the way that it was supposed to and
that's why we are left with so many questions really what little answers we do have and what little evidence we do
have just adds to the long list of questions well I think we have to remember that sometimes things just
don't make sense that sometimes things just don't add up well his general thought is that it was
the original idea was some type of heist that this was some type of extortion plot that just went wrong his thoughts
are that maybe whoever came to their home they were trying to get from the durman's either something that the
durman's just didn't have right or didn't have access to it could be the wrong person like you said somebody goes
and hears that this couple has something they show up it's the wrong house let us
into the safe give us this piece what about this piece of art whatever it is we don't have that we don't know what
you're talking about that goes into gun accidentally going off boom killing the guy now we got to
take his head because we hate we'll even behind evidence this is plausible well I
think let's talk about some home invasions that we have discussed already on the show in the past because I think
when I see that when I see the crime scene when I when they describe what it is they're what is left the how mister
mr. Derman was dressed everything appears to me that this was some type of home invasion it looks to me like these
two individuals were just in their home or on their property going about their day and at some point they're disrupted
by who would end up being the killer or killers or in a situation and so along that thought of a possible home invasion
in the past the home invasions that we've covered the ones that come to mind right now the Aurora hammer Slayer
Colorado 1984 mm-hmm this is a child rapist child killer Alexander Ewing he killed several people
the motive there is rape that's why he entered the home right okay and very likely rape and murder this guy was was
a homicidal maniac yeah he said these also were very messy crime scenes so we know that the we have
to go off of the rape was very likely not the motive because that just didn't happen then we have a situation where we
have like the the cheshire murders we have the DC mansion murders and we have Barry and honey Sherman who have we
talked about yeah it still it's still fascinating to me that the Barry and honey Sherman is not solved I know it
just took place in 2017 this is another situation where there's a very clean crime scene but the situation here is we
have with the cheshire murders the motive was money and rape DC mansion murders money Barry and honey Sherman
it's a little it's a little undetermined and undecided what exactly the motive was there's thought that it could have
been money could have been for revenge I think most people point to revenge as Barry seems to have created a lot of
work enemies throughout the throughout his career but in the cheshire murders its money and rape DC mansion murders
money Perry and honey Sherman undetermined possibly revenge so when we look at all
those cases when we look at those four cases the only possibilities that we're left with is that the motive would be
money and/or revenge right so let's kind of tape table that just for a moment and
and just kind of can we agree that the most likely motive here is either money or revenge or both mm-hmm so one thing
that I'm going to kind of just throw out there I don't have any answers to this I
I've I've been trying to come up with answers for this for the past few days every time I come up with what I think
is a good answer I then realize that it's probably not but one thing that sheriff sills has said in some of his
interviews that I think is incredibly interesting remember we have the neighbor who says that they saw a man in
the durman's yard on that Saturday yeah and remember we said well can we believe
this witness or not and we have sheriff sills on record in front of the camera saying he believes this individual and
when asked why he believes this individual he says I believe them because of what they didn't see tells me
that they are telling the truth I don't know what that means right I think what it could mean is that law enforcement
does have something some piece of evidence that they have not told us about to indicate that there is some
something of fact that they know that this individual was able to tell them was not on this person or with this
person that they saw to back that up so if sheriff sills believes this individual I believe this individual so
where I go to with this extortion plot gone wrong think about both the DC mansion murders in the Cheshire murders
what happened in both of those situations both of those were well-to-do families
and the DC mansion murders those people were extremely wealthy but in both situations when the killers got into the
home what did they find especially in the Cheshire murders they found that there wasn't a bunch of valuable things
in here or there items and we don't want to leave with items we need cash right and in the Cheshire case there was no
cash in the house we get to the DC mansion murders there was cash in the house but there were guns in that same
location the victim didn't want this man to be to know that there were guns in the house right because likely the
offender was going to get to those guns before he was going to get to those guns
mm-hmm so in both cases we have a situation where somebody spots this fancy house of these well-to-do people
and they assume that there might be a pile of cash inside the house then they get into the situation and they realize
that it's not that and now holy [ __ ] my plan is not gonna work out the way that
I thought it would be I actually think in this situation we're probably dealing with somewhat of some maybe some
slightly sophisticated people in the sense that I think they put a lot of time and effort into the thoughts of
carrying out how they were going to extort these people I think that the evidence will point that this was very
likely the situation I think that Russell was held at the home and in the garage I actually believe he was very
likely shot with a single shot to the head in the garage and I think that yes there there's not a whole lot of
evidence to suggest that but there are ways to go about that to help make sure that that doesn't happen and in the
course of that then now we have the body that was moved slightly had removed and
then then towels put down so that the blood would not seep out from the garage door onto onto the driveway which may
alert somebody that something horrible is happening inside this house but I think what went down is
and this is a little complicated but I think somebody pulled up in a boat near their home or even possibly at their
dock went into the house and it had to have been more than one person under my scenario very I think surely was removed
from the home and I think Russell was kept at the home and I think that whatever they thought they were going to
get from these people they could extort it through Russell by saying we've got your wife elsewhere she's on the boat
she's on a boat and Alan this big lake and furthermore we can take her wherever we want to at this point you we need you
to stay here stay behind so we can get from you whatever it is we came to intended to get and I think I think that
then what happened was that they realized this is not so simple that just like the Cheshire Eyre murders and the
DC mansion murders [ __ ] whatever we came to get they don't have that in this house yeah or the fact that
Russell was a world war two vet and maybe took his chances I think that plays into it and we're talking about
people that didn't even have ATM cards so then what if they what if the killer finds himself in a situation where not
only do they not have what I came here to get they can't easily access it without or gain access to it without me
getting noticed right you know because let's go in your garage let's get in your car so we could go to the ATM and
you can get me some money since you'll have any money here I don't have a ATM card mm-hmm
are you lying to me old man no I don't have one I'm with you I think that Russ being a world war two vet I think at
some point he turned and he went after this person yeah and I think that that led to his demise I'm not saying he did
anything wrong no because I think you need to yeah I think look in a lot of these cases if you don't go after the
person you have no chance and I just keep hearing about these cases when I'm talking to these
detectives and cops working on new cases for the show and they'll say you have this guy kidnapped this girl and she had
1012 chances to run and never did mm-hm or had five or six chances to fight back and she never did and and
they still caught the person but but she might have been able to save her own life mm-hmm and I just can't get over
that you know the the percentage is you know or not in your favor if you don't fight back in the DC case they had to
have somebody bring money to the home to pay the person that was holding them captive yeah the durman's likely didn't
have somebody to do this in the cheshire case they took the mother to the bank and had her withdraw money yeah and they
picked they picked up one of the individuals on surveillance and the mother was brave enough to tip off the
people at the bank which ended up leading to the capture and arrest of the two individuals that carried out those
horrible crimes I think we have a situation where maybe the offenders got into a situation where they realize
this isn't going to go the way that I want and when it wasn't going the way that they wanted they either carried out
one of their threats against Shirley and that's when Russell lashed out or that it just the situation just got
murky and Russell last latched out we're talking about world war two veteran we're talking about these winners in
SATs yeah we're under stand that he's old but we're talking about a generation of men and women that saved the entire
world I mean think about that for a minute these are people that aren't going to back down and what I think
happened here is that these individuals very likely got away with very little if
anything from the home and murder to people for no reason at all at the end of the day with no gain
and the two-person theory makes quite a bit of sense but I feel like it's also a
risky move because if you have her out on the water it seems like you could be surrounded easier I think very likely
the movement of the victims would be by some type of design and by necessity these outcomes are the result of a
designed attack structured by resources and tools that the offenders had with them the killer killers accessed and
left the property in my opinion via boat so that means that one of the offenders
either owned or borrowed a boat at the time of these murders I think that these men are not criminals in the sense that
they are not thugs but I think they do have some form of street smarts I think there's probably a leader of this group
and people closest to him like his his wife or girlfriend will know him to be a liar manipulative
he is some form of a small gambler he is someone that not only believes in cheating the system he likely brags to
his significant other about stealing from his employer whether it be money materials or time I think it's also
somebody that hates Authority because through his delusional opinion of himself in his intelligence he thinks he
is the authority I think the important thing here to keep in mind and to really focus on are some factors of who's who
these guys could be I think that at least two or more of these guys are probably into hunting and fishing at
least one of them owned a boat at the time of the murders or borrowed one from someone that he is close to and I think
that that's where you might be able to get the crack in your case where if we have somebody that can come forward
and say look I know so-and-so and they were out with their buddies on a quote-unquote fishing trip and gone for
a large portion of that day were gone for a long period of time and maybe when that individual returned they weren't
the same so the boat I think is the key to to finding this person and like you captain I believe that at least one of
these individuals had a good knowledge a good understanding of that Lake and for
that I feel that out of our offenders I believe that at least two of them were somewhat local to this crime
meaning that they lived in one of the four counties where Lake Oconee is this may also require them to drive and own
some type of vehicle that would allow them to move a boat where this case could get some legs is if in fact there
were multiple multiple offenders as I pointed out they're very likely was one leader we're leaders amongst that group
I think that somewhere in that group there might be somebody who is somewhat of a victim themselves even though they
went along with this plot I think that it's somebody that was told that we were not going to hurt anybody we have
nothing to lose we have everything to gain all we're going to do is go out there and we're gonna make some money
and at the end of the day that didn't happen and at the end of the day two people were brutally murdered I think
that there's a chance that this individual feels that they've been bullied because of that situation they
went along with something they didn't fully understand something they didn't fully agree with they've remained quiet
to this day probably out of fear of the leader or the others in the group what we need is somebody that knows one of
these individuals that knew that they were out on the water that day that knows them to be truly a despicable
person to come forward with that information give that name so they can be looked at so they can be interviewed
or we need one member of that group to break rank and to come forward and not allow the others in the group to bully
them or threaten them further and say look this is what I did this is who was involved this is how and why we did it
and turn those other individuals in one that's the only way you're ever going to
free yourself of the threat of bodily harm or murder to yourself and to this is something you probably feel extremely
guilty for and you should but coming forward and telling the truth is the first step and freeing yourself of the
weight of that guilt now five years after the murders we still have very few clues as to who murdered Russell and
sure Lederman we don't know why or fully how or when these brutal attacks on this
couple occurred but there may be some hope as of March 2019 sheriff sills says he has a gut feeling about who's
responsible for the murders intuition based on his decades as a lawman he says these are two people who have been
interviewed and who have refused polygraph tests he told the media as far back as May 2015 that he had a person of
interest who had not been truthful with him but he doesn't have enough to elevate that person to a suspect
sheriff sills has always said that he believed the case involved more than one killer and then it was someone who knew
the durman's or whom the durman's likely knew in return he adds this was a planned target attack not randomized
violence but it is also indicative of a local someone very familiar with the lake he says he is convinced the killers
arrived by boat but in recent months he says he's less sure of that but we know that he has at least one piece of
forensic evidence that he will not reveal SILS has like in this case to that of Tara Grinstead which broke after
a phone call to police 12 years after the fact and resulted in the arrest of two suspects who were not on
investigators radar just like the frustrated sheriff and the Derman family all we can do now is wait to see if
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[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Source: https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-di746-b15405

Russell and Shirley Dermond ///Part 2/// 304 Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com On Tuesday, May 6th 2014 - A woman called Putnum County, Georgia 911. She reported she was at the home of friends checking on them. The elderly couple had been missing for days. She called because inside the home she found someone dead in the garage that she could not identify. This is a crime and mystery that continues to haunt the state of Georgia to this day. Join us in the garage as we discuss this fascinating case. Beer of the Week - Southern Pecan Nut Brown Ale by Lazy Magnolia Brewing Garage Grade - 3 and 3 quarter bottle caps out of 5 Check out this week’s amazing sponsors and save CA$H with our codes! www.JoyBird.com/Garage and receive 25% OFF your first order with code GARAGE www.Madison-Reed.com and get 10% OFF plus FREE shipping on your first color kit with code GARAGE www.BetterHelp.com/Garage and get 10% OFF your first month with discount code GARAGE Acorn.tv/garage - Watch episode 1 of “Line of Duty” and start a FREE 30-day trial of Acorn TV with code GARAGE The full archive of True Crime Garage is available on the Stitcher listening app - for FREE. Our show “Off the Record” is only on Stitcher Premium. For a FREE month of listening go to http://stitcherpremium.com/truecrimegarage and use promo code GARAGE

Brief Summary

The episode analyzes the unsolved double homicide of Russell and Shirley Derman, exploring various theories and evidence surrounding their deaths.

Key points

Acorn TV: Your Streaming Home. Catch the latest British crime dramas and mysteries, including 'Line of Duty.'
True Crime Garage Introduction. Hosts Nick and Captain dive into the latest true crime case with a cold beer.
Theories of the Derman Murders. Exploring various theories behind the brutal murders of Russell and Shirley Derman.
Sophisticated Killer?. Discussion on the possibility of a professional hitman being involved in the Durman murders.
Theories of Murder. Exploring various theories about the motivations behind the murders of the Durmans.
Home Invasion Insights. Comparing the Durman case to other infamous home invasions to understand the motive.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you.

Host greeting listeners

1:21WatchMay 15, 2019

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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