Nancy Guthrie: The FULL Ransom Notes | Forensic Files

The Nancy Guthrie case has been the most talked about true [music] crime story in
the headlines this past year. And I actually can't believe I'm saying this, but it has been nearly six [music]
months since she was abducted from her Tucson home. In my Arizona news reporting role, right before I came to
Crime Junkie, [music] I was made aware of what was going on behind the scenes, the inside track on what was coming in
in the investigation, [music] the ransom notes that came into the media outlets,
what was being said to me and my team behind the scenes from authorities themselves. [music] And at this point,
with Nancy still missing, and there being no arrests, I think you guys deserve to know everything [music] that
I know, no holding back, unscripted, and this even includes a possible new theory
from a retired investigator [music] that I think really has legs. So, crime junkies, [music]
I'm Brianna Whitney, but I am not taking you through this alone. Hi, crime junkies. I'm Ashley Flowers. I am
actually excited. This is a rare opportunity where I'm I think I'm learning stuff along with you guys
instead of telling them the story. So, I think we have a lot to talk about. You're going to bring us some exclusive
information on this case that [music] has had everyone's attention for months. >> Mhm.
>> So, let's just dive in. Let's do it. >> I want to talk about literally everything. And I know the crime junkies
want to learn all the new stuff. I mean, we're >> I want to learn the new stuff.
>> I want to tell you the new stuff. And we're going to talk about all the details like the wording, the verbiage
in the ransom notes, why that all plays into this brand new theory that I think [music] actually has legs from a chief
investigator who lives in Colorado. And those are two really important things. But also, the reason why we're here,
some of this is the fact [music] that there was so much going on behind the scenes with law enforcement. The way
that this was unfolding, some missteps, but even things that were said to me, to
my team, that I've never talked about before, that I think just shows [music] the public why this case has somewhat
unfolded the way it has. And there's been a lot of frustration, and I get it. Frustration from me behind the scenes,
too. [music] So, those three things we're going to get into from everybody, and I know you're learning this in real
time, too. But I kind of want to just take the crime junkies through what we know, what unfolded in the first week in
the first people like just in case they've been living under a rock for the last six months. [music] Like give us
the lay of the land or like we are, you know, we've been somewhere else like reorient us in this case.
>> Right. Okay. So it's the end of January, right? It's winter Arizona and I remember the news alerts coming into our
phones [music] like Savannah Guthy's mom missing in Tucson. Thought it was weird
and I was texting my friends. We were all like what weird like this is weird, right? But it was I remember thinking
because you know she was older. I remember thinking oh she's probably like it's probably like a medical thing or
everyone's like oh I I remember people talking like she wandered off whatever right and it was also a Sunday so there
was like conversation that you know maybe she was just [music] out enjoying a walk got confused something like that
and we didn't quite know where her cognition was at that time but also how many times have we seen this that a
vulnerable adult goes missing and it they're confused they're found something like that. So, [music] at first we just
kind of like, okay, monitoring. It's weird. Yeah, it's weird. We'll check it out. Side note, I had also just gotten
knee surgery, so I was like barely mobile, so I was not even in a place to go to Tucson yet if there was something
more. So, I was monitoring it literally from my couch. >> Oh my god. Yeah. So, there's just a lot
going on. We get to the news station the next day [music] and there it's off. Like, there's something off the
>> vibes in the station or >> the vibes with the investigation. The sheriff had come out really late at
night. There was this like impromptu press conference outside of Nancy Guthri's home. It was late. It was on
cell phones. They had streamed it. You could barely hear. It was just odd. It was almost like very haphazard.
>> And that's odd for something like that. >> Trying to get ahead of something, >> I think. So, and so, you know, we we
start looking into this more. And at this point, they're like, "This is an investigation. We still don't have a lot
of details." And then we learn that [music] there might be evidence that she was taken. That's where the
investigation really changed in terms of [music] this isn't just wandering off. There's something more here.
>> Yeah. >> Then we learned that Savannah had come back from New York. Obviously, she hosts
the Today Show. [music] And just knowing what was going on now, this is this is a
weird. So, we started looking more into the coverage. [music] And at this point now, they confirmed that she was taken
from her home in the early morning hours of February [music] 1st. That becomes important in the timeline to kind of
keep in mind. The scene is is odd. I got there the second [music] day and like actually to her house.
>> To her house. Yes. And just to orient people to this isn't like a super suburban neighborhood where the houses
are close together. They're close to the street. [music] Tucson is is very vast.
It's very desert. And this is the Catalina Foothills area. So these homes are older. Um they're [music] set back
further in the lots. There's a lot of desert brush. There's a lot of cacti. >> So when it's dark in that neighborhood,
it is dark. There's no street lights. [music] And if you have cameras on your home, they may not be able to see what's
on the street just not only because it's pitch black, but also because they're far away from where the street is.
>> Yeah. [music] >> So, knowing that she was possibly taken in the middle of the night, it was like,
okay, that could be something you could get away with in this [music] neighborhood. But
>> weird factor number one, when we got out there was the fact that [music] you could walk up to the scene. And I
remember thinking this was odd. The Puma County walk up to the scene. I literally
mean the sheriff's department gave us the okay at that time to walk up to the driveway and look at the front door
[music] and that became a key in the investigation because there were drops of blood on the front porch [music] and
you could very much see what it was and all of a sudden us reporters who were out there are like, "Oh, okay.
Something's [music] off here." And not just that, did they not see the blood? They did. They did. But at that point,
the Pima County Sheriff's Department said, "We're investigating. We've collected all the evidence. The scene
[music] is secure. So, it's clear. They said just don't go into the back. >> Secure or release? Like they were
they've released the scene. >> They they did release the scene. Okay. Yes. So, there was all they had
basically at that point was sheriff's deputies were kind of like [music] going back up and down the street at this
point now. There's a lot of media that had gotten there. They just said don't go to the backyard, which we wouldn't do
anyway. So, [music] I remember thinking that was kind of odd. Like, why are we allowed on this already if she's still
missing? It's only been a couple days at this point. [music] But the other key thing about that was the the Nest video
camera was gone. And [music] >> obviously you're thinking, well, what did that catch, right? And [music] was
it stored in like a cloud where they could access the video? So that's all going on and then the ransom notes
[music] happen. This is a weird case, right? Like this is all weird. We've got a grandma who's
abducted or taken. [music] We have blood on the ground. we have a missing surveillance camera and then
[music] these ransom notes start coming in and it was like >> how soon after did they like
>> just a few days just a few days it was in the first week of the investigation
so like this is unfolding like each day there's something new right so just a couple days later ransom [music] notes
go into TMZ and then the Tucson station that was a sister station to the Phoenix
station I worked at that upped the ante of everything [music] because it gave two deadlines
demanding millions of dollars in [music] Bitcoin. So now you're like, "Okay, wait, what's going to go on?" And I want
to get into what the ransom note said. Ransom note number one and two, but that's what a press [music] conference
was called. The only press conference, by the way, that we've had in this investigation since it [music] all
started. >> And that's where we learned there was a a 5:00 p.m. deadline on that Thursday.
[music] There was another deadline on that Monday and it started with $4 million in Bitcoin demanded for day one.
And if you didn't meet that, then [music] it was $6 million demanded for the next one. So now there's a ticking
time clock as to what's going to happen. >> Wa. [music] >> Yeah. >> Wa. I want to talk about the ransom note
with you. And I'm going through my computer just to make sure that I get this all right. There's been bits of
this that have been talked about online. There's been parts that people know, but
I don't think they know all of the verbiage. And I think this is very important because it sets the tone for
what was about to come. So I'm going to read you part of it. This is how it started. [music]
Hello Savannah. We have your mother Nancy. She is safe but scared. She will be held for ransom and once payment is
received she will be released unharmed. We will be holding her for a [music] maximum of 7 days.
So they go on then to demand the [music] the millions of dollars and they give the two deadlines. But what is key here
I think [music] is that the money was demanded in USD. So US dollar typically if this is coming from somebody here you
don't say that. >> You don't say that which [music] is key for this theory we're going to talk
about later in the episode. >> So they're saying they will only hold her for 7 days.
>> For 7 days, right? [music] Then they get pretty demanding and snarky with how
they address Savannah. And mind you, that's also important, right? They're addressing just Savannah. They don't say
the Guthrie family. Hello Savannah, we have your mother. We always wondered if it was like about who she was or or did
they just happen upon her not knowing that it was going to garner this attention, [music] but it seems like
this was about or they at least like not necessarily about Savannah Vana, but they knew Savannah had money.
>> Yes. At [music] a minimum, >> I think. So, Savannah, I believe, was obviously, you know, the target of where
we would get the money from if you were the person who was targeting this. And I
think there's a reason maybe why they [music] they targeted her. I'll get into that, too. Okay. I'm going to read you
three more parts of this ransom note, and then we'll kind of talk about it after. So, this is what it [music] went
on to say. Once payment is received to the Bitcoin address below, she will be released within [music] 12 hours of
deposit to a safe drop off location back in Tucson. If the payment is not received by the last deadline on Monday
the 9th at 5:00 [music] p.m., she will be killed. Your mother is aware of this and her life is in your hands. [music]
It is in the best interest of everyone to have this completed as soon as possible.
>> [music] >> You will not be able to contact me from here on out. There will be no
negotiation. [music] Do not play games. Law enforcement will not be able to help
you. Oh my god. And then at the very end, they basically give what we learned in in the press conference at the time
that there was something only the abductor would know, which was [music] she had a white smartwatch that was on
the floor near her bed, like at the foot of [music] her bed, and then there was this flood light that was destroyed in
the backyard. So those two clues are what gave the FBI kind of the wherewithal to say this is not a hoax.
At least they didn't think so or they were investigating it as possibly legitimate. They still [music] are by
the way. Probably also why they kept you guys out of the backyard, right? They don't want anyone reporting of course
about the light. Okay. And so there was this there was like a Bitcoin wallet and
address that was at the bottom of this that would be where you would deposit the funds. [music] And I think something
that I took away from reading this right off the bat was that you will not hear from me. like they were cutting off
communication. It was just like pay this. >> We're going back and forth. We want we
want money. I've told you exactly what we want. >> Exactly. The other part that I think is
really interesting here because again, we have no idea where Nancy [music] is, went, where she went, where she is. The
specific verbiage of once they get the money, she will be released to a [music] safe drop off location back in Tucson,
>> indicating she's not in Tucson. >> That's what I think. Now, [music] could it be right outside Tucson? Very
possible. Very early on, people thought that maybe she could have been taken down to Mexico. The border is very close
there. It's easy to access. [music] That's possible, too. But I mean, this was pretty serious. And I think too,
just like taking that tone of like, do not play games. Law enforcement will not help you. I mean, can you imagine
reading this? >> Well, I mean you I would imagine they'd have to get out of Tucson. Like they
know again if if they if they knew who they were abducting, they [music] were they knew she was Savannah Guthri's mom.
you know that there is going to be a massive police press presence as soon [music] as as soon as this happens.
>> Yes. >> So that comes in and at first you know they gave that to the FBI to the
authorities to the Puma County Sheriff's Department [music] and and at that point
too is kind of where we were learning what the split was between what the Puma County Sheriff's Department was handling
[music] and what the FBI was handling. So it seemed that as the investigation unfolded that that kind of got a little
blurry. The FBI was definitely not pleased [music] about the scene being released to all of us. Why? Because they
needed to go in and check what other evidence there was that possibly could lend itself to what now was coming
[music] in digitally. So, what ended up really playing out was the Pima County Sheriff's Department was more so in
charge of the like on the ground investigation, the scene itself, [music] kind of that the FBI was the go-to for
everything. ransom note, digital tracking, [music] like all of that that you would think the FBI would be totally
involved in. And that became key here. So, they have this press conference that's where they reveal these deadlines
[music] to us and we're like, okay, what's going to happen? Are they going to Yeah, what
now? Are they going to [music] >> put money into this? And at this point now, there's a reward that's also, you
know, please come forward for information. February 9th was that [music] like next deadline. And then
February 10th is the most pivotal day in [music] the investigation. That is when
the Nest video camera was released by the [music] FBI. So, they had been going through trying to mine what they could
that was on that camera. [music] Shane and I were heading down to Tucson because we had gotten a tip, an insider
saying, "Hey, [music] the FBI is going to release this. Like, director Cash Patel is going to put this on his ex
account, his Twitter account. That is how they released this video." [music] And so, we're like scrolling, scrolling,
scrolling, monitoring, monitoring. >> It's kind of crazy. >> It I [music] know. >> Okay. Right. Yeah. Right. So, I'm like
scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. We're [music] on our way to Tucson. The video drops and when I tell you I'm watching
these clips and [music] it is so brazen the way that this person [music] gets to the home that it like sent
chills down my spine. Like, you're looking at this and you're like, "Oh, oh my god." Like, this is what you see in a
horror movie. This is not real life. [music] And this I've thought this the whole time, too. This would be a crazy
story no matter whose grandma this was, right? [music] Like grandma is abducted.
We now have this insane video of this guy who is in a ski mask. He's got like something in his pocket. [music] He's
got a backpack and he gets up to the camera like face in the camera and he's got this like shrubbery. He's either
trying to like hide it. >> What was that? People like dissected this video. >> Oh my god. [music]
>> 10 Ways of Sunday. Like it was wild. >> Yes. How did he walk his gate? Could you
tell the backpack? [music] >> The backpack? Yeah. Yeah. So, we still don't really know the shrubbery. Some
people say it was to like try to cover it up, but he knew it was there. Another theory that I've heard is maybe he was
using that to try [music] to like get it off the thing, like use the the plants to get it off the like
>> Oh. Like, when you guys went to the to the scene that that first time and you
showed up, did you think at all that like the police took [music] the nest cam as part of their evidence collection
or was it like clear that somebody like ripped that off? At first it was possible, but it seemed odd,
>> right? >> It seemed odd because you knew like in this day and age 2026, [music] right?
Like the physical camera, >> but that's what seems odd about them taking it. >> Yeah. I don't know.
>> It's like what what's the point of taking it? Everything's in the class. >> Maybe they didn't know. And honestly,
and I'm going to get more into this, but like [music] the the criminal sophistication of this the kidnapper
>> I was scared out. Yeah. >> It it might be a little lower than people think. Okay. So, we'll get into
that, but from now on, I'm going to refer to him as porch guy [music] because that is how he has basically
become known on social media is porch guy who's seen in the video, right? This brazen video and and we don't know how
it ends. We only know when he goes in. So, we can tell when the camera system was accessed, [music] which was
overnight. He goes in, that's then disconnected, still overnight. And then really the last trace of anything we
have is when NY's pacemaker disconnected [music] shortly after that. So, she had
a pacemaker. And that was part of this, too. Like obviously we're talking about vulnerable and frail. As the
investigation is unfolding, the FBI and the Pima County Sheriff's Department is like, "Look, she had a pacemaker. She
had a very serious heart condition. She really couldn't walk more than a couple steps on her own. So like she did not
just up and walk out of her house." And then you're looking at the blood droplets and you're thinking,
>> I mean, it kind of looked like almost like a bloody nose was dripping. I've also heard that potentially like was she
bleeding from an injury and it dripped off her arm like onto the the concrete? The other hope at that point was, well,
let's hope [music] that this guy's DNA is in the blood, too. And it wasn't. It was just Nancy Guthri's DNA. [music]
>> So, you have that. And I thought, looking at the video, I thought [music] >> if if you were walking in a ski mask, I
would know it was you >> through and through, right? Like, if you're a friend or you know this person,
>> you're going to know who they are with the ski mask on or not. You're going to
know the way that they walk. >> Yeah. >> And I thought, "Okay, great. We're getting somewhere. We're going to figure
out who this is really quick. >> Start the clock. >> Start the clock. And here we are 6
months later. >> We still don't know who Porch Guy is. Which [music] is crazy. The other thing
that was really unsettling about the videos that came out later was that we [music] learned that authorities were
like, "Hey neighbors, check your surveillance [music] video not only for the night of the January 31st into
February 1st, but also January 11th." [music] That was weird. And we still don't really know why that is an
investigative date in this case. [music] It is possible that the videos that Cash
Patel put out that one of them was actually from a couple weeks [music] before she vanished. And there's been
some dissection online of whether that's the case or not. It is possible that Porsche Guy was casing out the area, the
house [music] before he actually carried out the abduction. Interesting. >> So, here we are, right? We've I [music]
mean, crazy week. We got deduction. We got ransom note. We got press conference. We've got video. Boom.
Ransom note number two. [music] And ransom note number two had a significantly different tone than ransom
note number one. >> And by the time you get ransom note number two, have any of the deadlines
passed or all of them or? >> I believe it was in the middle. Okay. >> Of them. So I think there was still like
we you were still going to be able to get to [music] the second deadline. >> Okay.
>> But I want to read to you what this [music] said. And and I guess actually before I read it, Savannah Guthrie and
her siblings had been very outspoken at this point on social media. She was using Instagram, Tik Tok, Facebook,
basically putting out these like pleading videos like, "We want our mother back. What can we do? Please show
us proof of life." Proof of life becomes a huge part of this whole thing, right?
If you can show that you have Nancy Guthrie and proof of life, then we'll they'll pay, right? And and they
eventually offer also over a million dollars. I mean, they they want Nancy back. So [music] that's what they were
waiting for. But obviously you're not going to willy-nilly put money into a Bitcoin wallet without proof of life
that [music] this person actually has Nancy. >> Yeah. So ransom note number two, I've
actually revealed a lot of the details on our Crime Junkie social media pages just a couple weeks ago. And the reason
why was because inside sources were giving media networks and [music] outlets like bits and pieces of ransom
note number two. They were reporting it and I was like at this point people just
need to know what it [music] said. >> Yeah. But for those who haven't heard it, this is the verbiage that's in
ransom note number two. We did not fully grasp the seriousness [music] of her physical conditions. We never intended
to hurt her. That was not our intention. She perished shortly after she was taken. We believe it was heartrelated.
She is buried in nature now. Nothing you could have done could have changed the outcome. [music] We are truly sorry. And
there was a lot of debate back and forth online on whether there was an apology or not. there 100% was at the very end
of this. So obviously the tone has completely changed, right? [music] Yeah. And clearly at this point, if
these are true, [music] in week one of this investigation, Nancy Guthrie had died. Now obviously they're trying to,
you know, divert [music] any blame from them like, hey, it was her health and we
didn't know that. So we're not culpable. Sorry. Sorry. [music] And then goodbye.
>> Buried in nature. Now verbiage, right? Remember the USD, the US dollar, right?
This is also a weird way of speaking. >> She perished shortly after she was [music] taken. She is buried in nature
now. It's just a little uh off. And [music] I believe this may be because the person
writing the notes is foreign, English is their second language, [music] or they are using like a translator
>> to get their point across. [music] >> We'll get into that in a second. So now
you have ransom note number two that we now know behind the scenes is happening,
[music] right? But the FBI and PCSD, they were never revealing what ransom note [music] number two said, just that
it was received. But Savannah went on to her social media and said, "We've received your note." And at this point
now, like there's [music] a very clear tone change in her, too. And the retired investigator I talked to said it was
very much like a hostage negotiator type tone. You could tell that she had worked
with the FBI. [music] But at this point now they're pleading to get Nancy back no matter if it's dead [music] or alive.
Yeah. And you can tell at this point that she's like we'll do anything to bring her home. Like that became the the
hashtag [music] was like bring her home no matter what. And I just personally [music] watching this happen like
reporting on it. I was doing the job that Savannah would typically do on a massive investigation, [music] right?
She is a seasoned anchor reporter. for her to have to be the [music] story. Heartbreaking, like awful. And I could
not imagine the position [music] that she was in, especially because we didn't know if her job was part of this and she
didn't know if her job was part of [music] this. And it was just like heartbreaking to watch these videos. But
there was never proof of life. The only thing that ever happened was that there was a very small amount of money put
into the Bitcoin wallet that came in in that first ransom note [music] by authorities. We don't know who put it in
there. We can assume that it was authorities and the Guthrie family together [music] or one of
>> Were you guys like watching it or we could monitor it. There's only certain people who can monitor it who had the
note. We could monitor it. We saw a very small amount put in. It was like a test
with [music] this like attached note that said contact us. We are ready to talk. Something along those lines and
nothing else ever happened though in that ransom note. Um that Bitcoin wallet was never active again and [music]
nothing came of that. So my thought was they're asking for proof of life. Clearly, if you believe these ransom
notes are legit, they can't prove proof of life. So, like done. But we didn't really know [music] if it was done or
not because we didn't know if the ransom notes were legit either. >> Yeah. We still don't really know [music]
if they're legit. There has been some reporting in the past month. Um, Reuters came out and said that they had this
anonymous FBI [music] source that had said all ransom notes in the investigation were fake. All of them.
>> That came out of nowhere. >> Yeah. And just like a couple weeks ago, a week ago. and the FBI. I mean, I'm
like calling the FBI right now. Hey, is this true or not? And [music] mind you, like there's these two ransom notes that
came in. And then there's like this slew of all these notes and emails and things
that are coming in to namely TMZ that [music] have been reported over the past couple months as well. Like one of them
was this email that came in from this guy that was like, [music] I know the kidnapper. I have video of Nancy alive
on her last day with the kidnapper. It's on a like a phone in a secure location and if you give me a Bitcoin [music]
then I will reveal the safe location. Crazy. I mean, these are just like crazy things. We don't know if that's legit,
>> but we do know that the FBI arrested [music] somebody very quickly early on in the investigation for sending a fake
ransom note. So, we do know that they're able to determine what is and isn't real
pretty quickly. That person has [music] pleaded guilty. So that kind of leads you to believe that if they can [music]
deem that to be true and if they're not saying anything about some of these emails that they're still looking at
these two notes as being credible. >> What connects the second one to the first one
>> came in through the same tip line to the news station. [music] They basically
like they believe they referenced some of the same things and it was a different IP address but sent in the
same way with the same kind of tone. So they believe that those were the [music]
two that came in from the same person at this point that those two are related. [music] Is it possible that they're not?
Sure. >> Yeah. >> But the way that this was sent and and like mind you too that's like a pretty
interesting way to send something through [music] a anonymous tip line to a local news station.
>> It's like a jot form. So the way that it's sent you don't see it. [music] You
but they use different IP addresses but they couldn't like track it. That's what
that was part of what was causing the issues as well. So, you have those two things happening. At this point, the FBI
has come out and on the record [music] said that yes, some ransom notes and some emails we've deemed to be bogus,
but [music] there are still some that we are investigating as possibly legitimate
in this kidnapping ransom case, [music] which is likely these two that we're talking about. We
also don't know what else has come in behind the scenes. >> Yeah. And that's what's hard, too,
right? We've had no information trickling out. I think from my perspective reporting on this, there
have been a lot of missteps. Like so much so that I'm honestly concerned about if we ever get to an arrest,
[music] what the prosecution is going to do to actually try to get justice in the
case because for one thing, the scene, right? Like that was that was bad. And the sheriff, Chris Nanos, did admit like
we probably shouldn't have done that. We probably should have kept it secure. Yeah, I'd say so because uh my DNA might
be on the driveway and the porch. There were a lot of people up and down there. So, like if that's a contaminated scene
in a court of law, that's so wild. I mean, that could really impact everything. [music] It's totally wild.
Then you had what felt like this kind of tension between the sheriff's department
and the FBI and some of that came to be like where the DNA was sent. [music] So,
PCSD was using this private lab in Florida and they were sending stuff there, but the FBI wanted to use their
lab in Quantico. It's like a premier lab that they can try to get things back quickly. And it [music] there was like
this kind of like chatter online of like okay well so and so doesn't know where this DNA is being sent and we wanted to
send it here but you sent it there and they had to address that and they'd be like it's fine but like it but it
clearly is not fine. >> It was not fine. >> So you had that >> mom and dad are fighting like [music]
right and then let's talk about some of what was said to me and [music] my team behind the scenes from the sheriff. So,
I haven't talked about this before, um, but I think this kind of [music] highlights how this all went.
To clarify where the DNA evidence was going was of the utmost importance to accurate reporting, right?
Yes. In Arizona, the nightly newscasts are on at 1000 p.m. [music] That is standard across the board. And as we all
know, in this job, the news doesn't sleep, right? but it's especially not sleeping in the biggest investigation in
the country [music] at 10 p.m. which is not even that late. So, we were getting ready for the evening newscast and this
is among like where the DNA evidence is going. What are you testing? How are you
testing it? [music] And my team sent a text to Sheriff Chris Nanos just trying to clarify what was going on with the
DNA evidence so that we could [music] be right before the newscast. So, this was
around like 9:50 that the text was sent to him. >> And this is like what a week out. Yeah,
this is within February. So, it was like a week within like one or two weeks since she was missing. Still, we're
talking like top lead story headlines across every news network every night at this point still. So, my team text him
trying to [music] get clarification. We immediately received a text back from him.
>> That said, did you happen to notice the time? Give it a rest. What? When I tell
you we looked at that text, I looked at the text and I was like, you've got to be joking. First off, that
text took more effort than simply [music] a no or a yes >> yes or don't respond. [music]
>> And to the point of timing, this isn't a year out and you're bothering him with
his like family. Like, I honestly kind of expect you to be >> on it at 10:00 p.m. [music] a week out
if we still haven't found her. >> 100%. I bet the Guthrie family did too. I mean, I'm thinking like Savannah's not
resting. [music] They're not resting. We're not resting. Like that just was such a snarky response to give give it a
rest. You're >> like she's missing. She >> and this is like your job. >> This is your job. And there was
something that the sheriff said too in that press conference. Basically said like you guys hold me to all my words.
Like >> yes, you're the sheriff of the most important or maybe biggest true crime
investigation missing person that is happening in real time in this country. >> [music]
>> Yes, we are holding you to your words because what you say is exceptionally important.
In in that time frame, everything just went downhill on social media. People were fed up with Sheriff Nanos. He
wouldn't do a press conference, but then he was doing like individual one-off interviews, [music]
including with me, but saying different things in these different interviews. So
then you'd have to go back to like the public information officers of the sheriff's department and be like, "Hey,
he said this in this interview, but didn't say that in this. Is that true?" and it would be like, you know, either
we can't confirm or we can't comment. So then that just like muddied the waters even more, right, with what was true and
what wasn't. And I [music] just feel like factually we needed to get the right information out there. Did he just
not know was going on or like was he what what was what was that? >> I Great question. I still honestly don't
know. And [music] there there are things that have been said from him throughout
these different interviews that I think he just kind of says and like it's not backed up by fact. somewhat recently he
went on to a news station and said that there's been like [music] arrests. There
haven't there's there's been no arrests. And that's kind of the other part of this too when we're [music] talking
about the missteps and just like the weirdness of it all. In that first month, there were three people detained
in the case. One of them was a Door Dash driver that lived south, [music] like an
hour south of Nancy Guthri's home. His name was Carlos. He was detained, questioned, and then released. And then
there were two other people who were detained in the case, Mary and [music] Luke Daly. Mary was Luke's mom. They
lived pretty close to Nancy Guthri's home. I interviewed them both and they still don't understand why they were
detained. We still don't know why they were detained. Many people online still believe that Luke Daly looks [music]
like Porch Guy. I mean, they have online court of public opinion have decided that Luke could be Porch Guy, but Luke
is adamant that he is not. We still don't know why these three people were detained. They were all [music]
released. There's been nothing more that has come of that. And there has been, as
far as we know, no other detainments. And I think we would know that if there wasn't the case. So that's like [music]
where this kind of ends because there's nothing more. We know that DNA is being tested. More DNA. Yes. So
something that also I'm like remembering this as I'm [music] going with you. I don't know if you heard about this, but
like the black glove of it all was like a big part of this. [music] So there was, you know, obviously the abductor
was wearing gloves. So that became like a key. What kind of gloves are these? Let's look for gloves. There was a black
glove that was found on the side of the road about 2 milesish from NY's home that was tested [music]
and that came back um unrelated. It came back to DNA of a a nearby restaurant worker.
>> Okay. >> But then there was like other gloves found near NY's home. Like everyone was
looking for gloves. Like a scavenger hunt for gloves and the sheriff basically came out and was like, "Oh,
well like our investigators like disposed of gloves on the ground. What are we doing here?
>> I I don't know." And [music] I'm like, "Why would we do that? If we're looking for gloves, why are we
just disposing of the gloves on the ground? >> Guess which one are ours? Guess which
one aren't. >> And he was like, "Some of them they were blue." It's like, "Okay, blue, black,
glove. Let's just not put them on the ground, right? Let's not let's not." >> So, the gloves part of this
investigation hasn't really gone anywhere, but we do know that they were able to get mixed DNA from inside NY's
[music] home. What I mean by that is like there are multiple profiles in this [music] DNA sample,
>> whatever it is, wherever it was from, >> whatever it is, wherever it's from, right? And and so they need to separate
that and like part of that becomes obviously we expect NY's DNA to be part of that. She's in the home, but like who
else's DNA could be part of that? Perhaps her daughter, her son-in-law, >> friends who visited
>> friends who visited, you know, it's that that's not necessarily the smoking gun.
It could mean it could be the thing, but it could mean a number of things that are completely unrelated. [music]
>> Right. Exactly. So, they need to separate that DNA and see if there's like an unknown profile that matches
somebody who shouldn't belong in the home and then do genetic genealogy on that. We haven't heard anything more on
that. I actually thought we were going to hear more about the DNA by this point and we [music] haven't. So, that's
ongoing. >> I'd be surprised. I mean, like especially with mixed samples, I know
that getting like a sample that's like good enough to do genealogy or like enough is like very difficult.
>> Yeah. And even if they get to that point, [music] then you have to like contend with the fact that like
depending on like who our perpetrator is. I mean, there are so many like populations of people who are
underrepresented in these databases that [music] take forever to find if you find
them at all. >> And that could very well be the case. So, that should still be going on behind
the scenes. We haven't gotten an update [music] on that. And then there's really
been like tips or just random things that have come in throughout the couple months that are like, "Oh, a tip came in
to this group in Mexico that Nancy was buried at these unmarked graves and they they sent investigators out there." They
didn't find her. [music] That didn't come to fruition. Then you've got TMZ receiving these emails. Oh, we their her
last known days are on this phone and this video in this secure location. If you give me this, I can get there. And
obviously nothing's come of that either. And and that's like kind of where this all stops. Like this is where we're at
now. Six months later. I cannot believe that this is where we're at [music] with
no answers, no arrests. We don't know where Nancy is. And [music] we don't really know what exactly is happening
behind the scenes or what's come in besides the fact that they're DNA testing. Wow. So,
why did this happen? [music] Right. Like, yeah. What do we think? And that's where I recently interviewed a former
chief investigator who has come up with what I think is a very educated, [music]
wellthoughtout, wellressearched theory. There's been a little bit of chatter of it online. She's talked about it. She
kind of put out this paper on it, but I really wanted to dive in [music] deep with her. And based on everything we
know, I think that this could be very plausible. Again, >> anything could be the case right now,
right? Like we don't know where Nancy is. We don't know what's happening. [music]
But why did this come to fruition in the first place? Right. >> Did this investigator have the
information about the notes that that have now she had some of them and and the US dollar is actually going to be a
key here. So her name is Lisa Miller. She's out of Colorado. She's been featured on like a lot of different news
programs, true crime. She is a seasoned investigator now. She works as a consultant. And so she basically put
together this like pages long [music] Substack report or paper on what she believes happened here. And weirdly
enough, right after she did that, this cyber security firm actually came out and categorized the Nancy Guthrie
abduction as [music] the same thing she had talked about. So that even made it feel more credible. So let's talk about
it. Lisa Miller believes that this is something [music] called an evolved wrench attack. What is an unevolved? I
don't even know what a wrench attack is. Neither did I. So [music] a wrench attack basically means that you are
targeting somebody's digital assets namely Bitcoin [music] cryptocurrency like they are wealthy in this you are
targeting them for that to extract that from them now Nancy Guthrie nobody is saying that she was just had all this
bitcoin or cryptocurrency right so that's what kind of makes this [music] evolved the thought here was that she
was the target the vulnerable target [music] and Savannah basically was like, "We're going to
leverage Savannah's wealth by abducting Nancy Guthrie to [music] extort the money that we want in cryptocurrency."
>> Okay. So, following >> presumably cuz that's like [music] the most untraceable or
>> Yeah. That's what Yeah. way less traceable than any sort of other money transaction. So, what are the factors
here? Savannah Guthrie, public figure, [music] right? We know that she likely does financially well given her job and
what [music] she does. But there's two things that I think might have been the reason why this was the Savannah and
Nancy Guthrie [music] target itself. One, Savannah's always public, but she had been even more public lately because
she was getting ready for coverage [music] of the Olympics. So, there was a ton of promo and press on NBC that was
going on [music] about that. But they also had recently done these segments, the anchors of the Today Show, where
they were going to their hometowns in November. And it's actually a really cool and cute story. I just rewatched it
last [music] night. It's like 8 minutes of Savannah going back to Tucson, Arizona, checking out University of
Arizona where she was, you know, looked [music] at sorority, where she ended up getting her law degree. Like she talked
about all of that and then why she loves Tucson so much. And one of her favorite
places in Tucson is this restaurant called Elcharo. And [music] in the piece, she goes there with her mom,
Nancy, and her sister. And I mean, you can like feel the love. It's like so palpable as to like this family loves
each other. They're talking about the history. And [music] Savannah's basically asking her mom in this like,
you know, what made you stay in Tucson? And she was just like, I just love it. Like the pace of life, it's slower. She
wants to watch the Havalina run. And like there had been neighbors that have posted on social media, too. Like she
[music] installed cameras at her home because she wanted to see the wildlife. like she wanted to see what Tucson,
Arizona has to offer as your home. And [music] it's it's quick. Like she's not in it a ton, but you can see she's
there. You can see why she loves it. Savannah's kind of showing the remote, you know, vast nature. We don't know if
that's something that these people saw, but it was something that her mom was recently featured in that showed them
like at home in Tucson and her mom is, you know, a vulnerable adult. [music] So, she had been very visible, right?
Like that's what anybody would have seen Savannah on more. So there's basically two parts of this theory that come to
play here. One, I'm going to refer to him or her as the mastermind. There's the mastermind who is likely overseas or
foreign [music] who comes up with the digital plan of it all. Basically the sophisticated plan of the communication
of how they're going to extort [music] this ransom in cryptocurrency. They're highly sophisticated. That's how you
know to use the different IP addresses. They're using like this encrypted tip line. [music]
This is somebody who knows what they're doing, right? Like this is something that they do. So you have the mastermind
that comes up with the plan and then [music] according to this theory, they hire what we would call like the local
actor or the local recruits, Porch Guy. So Porch Guy likely was hired by the mastermind, somebody who's local to
either southern Arizona, perhaps Mexico, and it could have been him and like maybe another person, right? We don't
know if there was like a getaway car or somebody else that helped pull off like the physical abduction. And
>> over and over and over again while reporting on this story, I had so many experts like retired FBI agents, retired
homicide detectives tell me that based on the video and the way that this abduction was carried [music] out that
this person was not a skilled criminal, like not sophisticated, this was a sloppy job, X, Y, and Z. [music] And I
kept thinking, okay, but like pulled it off. Yeah. Like what? So, how how sloppy
is it? And I think that that's where these [music] like two people come into play. The brains of it all is coming
from the mastermind, the porch person, the abductor themselves [music] is just like being paid to carry out this job.
And maybe they aren't super skilled, but they did enough to pull this off, right?
So, it all starts as planned. The ransom not is sent. Here's your deadlines. [music] NY's been taken. We're going to
get the money. And then the plan completely fails because they didn't account for her health condition and I
don't think that they accounted for her [music] to die. And that's where this all kind of starts to fall off the
tracks. So you've got the Guthrie family begging for proof of life. [music] >> They can't give it. So now you've got
the ransom note from the mastermind who's like pretty cold, right? Like removed. This person is likely thousands
of miles away. [music] does this, you know, for like a living and was just like, "We didn't plan for that. Sorry.
[music] Out right now." Porsche Guy left with Nancy has to find somewhere to bury
her remains and tried [music] to get out unscathed. So, you've got this problem of now what do you do? Because if the
mastermind had left, [music] like kind of left the investigation, like >> cut ties, didn't work out, moving on and
porch guy or whoever is involved in the actual physical abduction of it buried her remains somewhere and fled,
where do you go? [music] Like you're you're stuck. And and part of the problem here is the fact that if the
mastermind is foreign, right? And and what leads us to believe that is that's the person writing these ransom notes.
USD [music] >> USD perished like things you maybe almost would either use a translator
perhaps like chat GBT I don't even know but like things that you and I would not
say to each other is likely coming from this person that is >> concocting this whole plan from afar now
it's possible the FBI knows more than we know and they maybe are able to figure out like where this person is but it is
also possible that wherever this person is doesn't subpoena or extradite to the United States of [music] America so that
could be a huge problem with like access that the FBI could it. It's also possible that they've [music] encrypted
everything and there is just no trace of them. So now the question according to this theory and with Lisa Miller who
came who you know shared this with me was like so now what if the mastermind and porch guy have cut ties with each
other? The mastermind may know why the plan was concocted how they came up with Nancy and Savannah [music]
what they wanted to do with it but they may not know where Nancy is now her remains [music] and porch guy may know
where Nancy is now. It's likely that that person has [music] fled either possibly to Mexico, knows where Nancy
is, isn't telling mastermind, and doesn't really know why the plan ever came to fruition in the first place.
Porch guy may not even know the identity of the mastermind, [music] just getting paid for a job. So, if
they're not communicating, you're stalled. Who sends the second note in this scenario? [music]
>> Mastermind. All communication in this theory is coming from the mastermind themselves. all the communication.
>> If he doesn't care though, like why bother? Why take the risk? Why bother sending that?
>> The second one. Yeah. Or the first one. >> The second [music] one. >> I think because he wanted to like
done cut ties. This isn't going to work. >> Oh, >> you won't hear from me again. Like,
right. Like, you're not going to hear from me again. We're done here. [music] And kind of like put that like closing
chapter. And if that is the case, that ended in the first week of this investigation. [music]
Everything. She'd passed. This would be the last communication. Wow. So now what? [music] Right. According to this
theory, for there to be any movement, you would need [music] there to be incentive for the mastermind and/or
porch guy to come forward with more information about where NY's remains are. And to believe that they could
still make a buck from doing that. Money. [music] Money. Savannah Guthrie and the Guthrie
family has been pretty outspoken that they will pay to receive Nancy. They want to bring her home. They want
closure. If she has passed [music] as they believe she has, they obviously want to like pay their respects, say
their goodbyes, and like have her home. >> Yeah. >> So, is that enough for them to come back
forward? So, I only see four options forward [music] here if this theory is correct. One, the mastermind reopens
communication with the Guthrie family. Is [music] that through a news station tip line? Is that directly to them? I
don't know. Obviously, huge liability there if they do that, but if they feel like they can get the money, that's one
way. Number two, DNA [music] results come back and they identify who Porch Guy is.
>> That would be great if that happened. I don't know if that's possible. [music]
Number three, somebody comes forward with information who can identify Porsche Guy, which we were hopeful for 6
months ago. And number four, and this might honestly be what I [music] think is realistic, that Nancy Gothur's
remains are eventually found somewhere in nature by like a hiker or somebody [music] doing target practice out in a
rural area. I do think it's possible they're in the desert in southern Arizona. That's a lot of desert. It's so
vast. You and I have both been there. [music] I mean, it is just it could be years. And I do think that that's how
possibly that she [music] will be found. But all of these like lack actual answers like who is the mastermind if
that's true? Who is porch guy? Will we ever get the why? >> Yeah, I don't know. But obviously like
number one now is just like bring [music] Nancy home. And how I think the question I have is like how often is
this happening? This seems like not a one-off thing, [music] right? This seems like a practiced like you you knew
exactly what to do. There's a name for this, right? This wrenching or whatever. >> Like how often is this happening, but
it's not Savannah [music] Guthri's mom? You know what I mean? I think more than we think because when I was going and
looking up the wrench attack like not [music] just the definition but just more reporting on them. I noticed like
an Associated Press article came up from last year like there was more articles that were coming up about this rise in
wrench attacks [music] and this one just might be a little bit of a different one and yes has gotten
immense spotlight because it is Savannah Guthri's mom but this is something that
seems to be on the rise like targeting digital assets. The the fact of it though is like how were they able to
pull off an abduction of a grandma? >> Yeah. >> In 2026 [music] where DNA is huge, where cameras are
huge? Like I still can't believe that we're here now. [music] Do you think they're going to come out and do a press
conference or say anything or like is is it just going to be like silence still?
I think that a press conference will happen only if there is a massive update. I do say that though and we
thought that the video when it was released of the abductor was a massive update and they didn't do a press
conference then either. But like I think at this point the [music] options are like either they identify who Porch guy
is and they arrest him and that's a press conference. They identify where these ransom notes are coming in from or
deem them like these are legit. We've identified who they came came in from. That's a press conference. Or obviously
if Nancy [music] >> is found but it just feels like so radio silent right this second and that's the
problem. people have like relied on inside sources to try to come forward with any information because we've
learned not a lot from the actual agencies. They're not saying a lot. And so it just leaves people like wondering,
speculating, [music] guessing, theorizing and and I do think that this could be credible and it based on
everything we know, right? Like the way these are written and like how this has been carried out, this is possible, but
it's still really unsettling. Like we don't know what happens. So, I'm going to be back in Arizona [music]
and I am going to stay on top of this case. Like, I've never seen something like this. And [music] I hope for
everybody's sake that we get some answers here, that the Guthrie family gets closure.
>> Yeah. >> I hope the crime junkies can watch and listen [music] to this and feel a lot
more educated about everything that's gone on in this case and like really understand what's at [music] stake here
and what's been said in hopes that like there are answers sometime soon. >> Yeah. So, make sure you guys hit the
bell notification. Like Brianna said, she's going to be back in Arizona. So, if anything happens, she's going to be
boots on the ground. [music] Still reporting from Arizona and you'll be back every Wednesday also with
headlines episodes of [music] other cases that you guys need to be in the know about.
>> Yeah. Thanks for joining me. This is great.

Six months after Nancy Guthrie vanished from her home in Tucson, Arizona, investigators are still searching for answers. But in recent months, this case has taken a series of unexpected turns. New ransom communications have surfaced, a man has admitted to sending fake ransom notes, investigators continue to analyze DNA evidence using advanced forensic techniques, and a new investigative theory may explain why the case has stalled.

In this special Crime Junkie update, Ashley Flowers and breaking news reporter Briana Whitney break down the latest developments in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, including newly obtained information, interviews with investigators and experts, and what may happen next in one of Arizona’s most closely watched missing persons cases.

You’ll hear about the latest developments in the investigation into Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance, the ransom notes that investigators continue to examine, why the FBI clarified that not every ransom communication has been ruled out, the guilty plea from Derrick Callella, who admitted sending fraudulent ransom messages early in the investigation, the latest DNA testing, including the use of genetic genealogy, and an investigative theory that could explain the role of the unidentified “Porch Guy” captured on surveillance video

This episode also explores the challenges investigators face when tracking cryptocurrency-related crimes, the theory that Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance may have been connected to an organized extortion scheme, the ongoing search efforts in Arizona and Mexico, questions surrounding evidence handling during the early stages of the investigation, and the developments experts believe could finally break the case open.

As of this episode’s release, Nancy Guthrie remains missing, the investigation remains active, and law enforcement agencies continue to pursue forensic evidence and public tips. Until Nancy is found, her family is still searching for the answers they deserve.

Are you a part of Ashley's Summer Watch Challenge? Text "BREAKING NEWS" to 317-733-7485 to stamp your bingo card. Not a part of Ashley's challenge and want to join? Text "WATCH IT" to 317-733-7485 to join! -------- Follow Crime Junkie: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrimeJunkiePodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/CrimeJunkiePod Crime Junkie is created anAmerican Idol Contestant Arrested For Murder!? The Case Of Ashley Flynn d hosted by Ashley Flowers.

About Ashley Flowers Ashley Flowers is the top female podcaster in the U.S. and the host of Crime Junkie, the #1 podcast among women and the #1 true crime podcast globally. As the Founder of Audiochuck, she has built a top-tier podcast production company that has garnered over 2.6 billion downloads, captivating audiences with its gripping storytelling through 10+ chart topping podcasts. Ashley and her team are dedicated to creating responsible true crime content that respects victims and their families.

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Brief Summary

Brianna Whitney shares exclusive details on the ongoing Nancy Guthrie abduction case, including ransom notes and investigative theories.

Key points

The Nancy Guthrie Case. A deep dive into the abduction of Nancy Guthrie, exploring the investigation's twists and turns.
Ransom Notes Unveiled. Details emerge about ransom notes demanding millions in Bitcoin, raising the stakes in the investigation.
The Mystery of Porch Guy. Six months later, the identity of Porch Guy remains unknown, raising questions about the investigation.
Ransom Note Number Two. The tone of the second ransom note shifts dramatically, revealing Nancy's tragic fate.
Sheriff's Department Missteps. Tensions rise as the sheriff's department faces criticism for their handling of the investigation.
The Mystery Deepens. Six months later, no answers, no arrests, and Nancy's whereabouts remain unknown.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is a weird case, right?

Ashley Flowers commenting on the oddities of the investigation.

6:41WatchJul 22, 2026

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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