Murder at N.A.S. Norfolk /// Part 2 /// 748 | Forensic Files

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[Music] [Music] n [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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garage TV cuz it's on the TV and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair
grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] in May of 1984 the FBI received the
following letter I have been involved in Espionage for several years years specifically I
have passed along top secret cryptographic key list for military Communications tech manuals for same and
intelligence messages I didn't know that the info was being passed to the USSR until after I had been involved for a
few years and since then I been remorseful and wished to be free finally I have decided to stop
supplying material my contact does not know of my decision originally I was told I
couldn't get out without approval this was accompanied with threats at any rate the reason for this
letter is to give you the FBI an opportunity to break what probably is a significant Espionage system I know that
my contact has recruited at least three other members that are actively supplying highly classified material
if interested in this matter you can signal me with an ad in the Los Angeles Times classified section under personal
messages what I would expect to cooperate is complete immunity from prosecution and absolutely no public
disclosure of me or my identity I will look for an ad in Monday's editions only for the next four
weeks this is trr garage [Music] we were kneed deep in comparing the similarities not only in victimology but
also the similarities of the specifics of the crimes themselves and the details within those Crimes of the two unsolved
murders of two Navy ladies in the early 80s first we had Pamela an Kimu who was murdered in
1982 found on the Norfolk Navy base and then we had in 1983 Carol an molar whose
body was found in a crevice of the seaw wall on that same navy base both of these bodies Captain were found in the
Navy Air Station portion of the base so we have this situation where victims are
attacked and murdered within the course of about one year's time and their bodies turn up in roughly the same
location and we have investigators who are sitting there in 1983 searching for answers and again obviously looking at
the parallels drawing parallels between these two murders in both cases we are likely going to have suspects that are
going to be persons that are close to the victim you would expect that that in any
murder investigation in these two cases this story is a little different than a lot
of true crime stories out there where you talk about the husband did it or the boyfriend did it or the ex-boyfriend or
the wife did it or the wife did it not all of you wives out there are perfectly innocent yeah in this case that was
certainly looked at in both of these homicides however as our timeline continues and stretches out
further we are going to have some suspects in these two murders that will by far
overshadow any of the Suspects on the inner Social Circles of these two victims one thing that will be difficult
or has become difficult as time has progressed in these cases is some of the information out there
Carol and molnar's case while very intriguing and again sharing similarities with Pamela Kim's case the
reporting on Carol Anne malar's case over the years has well frankly it's been bad the initial reports that were
coming out were giving us the details and the information that we needed to look at this story the information that
came out later some of it's just wrong and so when you start to cross reference what we have what information we know
about in this case you quickly start to go well some of this can't be true right
heck some of the reporting and these are I'm not going to name any names but reputable or supposed to be reputable
reporters bloody Duds yeah but I don't think they made anything up maybe they just got some bad information themselves
or got some bad Hooch didn't do what we like to say everyone should do their due
diligence yeah do your damn due diligence but in one report that is been widespread this person gets the cause of
death wrong for our victim saying that she was shot and we know that that is absolutely not the case carolan molar
was strangled both victims were strangled correct unfortunately Pamela kimw drowned in that vehicle after the
strangulation attempt let's get into one of the details that fascinated me about
this investigation and potential evidence here in Pamela Kim's case a big piece of evidence was the ski mask that
was found inside her vehicle that was submerged into the water later reporting in Carol Anne molnar's case would say
that a ski mask was found in her car remember her car was found 10 days after she went missing February 6th 198 3 from
the gallion club yeah her body's Found May 1st at 10:30 p.m. in the crevice of the seaw wall on the Naval Air Station
base reporting years later states that a ski mask was found in her car as well drawing even more connections between
these two cases however we were able to track down some information to suggest that that wasn't true that there was no
ski mask that was found in the the back of Carol and molnar's car that what I think has happened here Captain because
we have so many similarities in the victimology and all of this took place within about a year's time in the early
80s I think that somehow this these cases it's like a game of telephone where one person tells somebody
something you tell another and you tell another and you tell another and then that story changes and tweaks a little
bit a little bit a little bit more each time that it goes down the wire I think somehow these two cases have kind of
been mesh together over the years where some of the details from one of the cases just spill Into The Narrative of
the other seems reasonable or seems likely well and we know this to to be the case here because again back to the
ski mask that is such a big part of the Pamela kimre case right it was reported later that a ski mask was found in the
back of carolanne molnar's car no we have police on record we have authorities on record saying when asked
about the ski mask saying there was no ski mask in carolanne malar's car the only thing we found in her car was her
shoes based off of the description while they never say it it sounds to me Captain like unfortunately remember we
get the description of what she was wearing when she went into work that Friday night right we get the
description of what she was wearing from her roommate the description of the shoes found in the car sound very
similar to me of the description that we hear from the roommate of what she was wearing going into work not only are you
a computer expert but you're also a female shoe expert like Al Bundy H let me play devil's advocate
here just for a second is is it possible that some of these reports that are they seem like misinformation is it
possible that they got some Insider information from law enforcement or possibly from the Navy and they release
this information but this is actually hold back information from law enforcement some of it could be hold
back information here's where I think that that the reporting got bad I think that if if I were to pick up the phone
and reach out to a few different names of people that are on my notes Here for these cases right and I I call up and
say hey and some of this did occur but maybe not exactly in this manner if I call up and say hey I'm calling from The
New York Times I'm calling from a a paper or I'm working on a project or a book and I'm calling from afar and I say
hey you need to talk to so and so oh yeah what are you calling about I'm calling about the the Sailor that was
murdered and found on the air base well if if you don't use the victim's name you very likely could start getting
details about the other case because unfortunately both of these women were found on the Naval Base both of them
unfortunately were murdered right and so I think that that is probably what happened I think that they they received
some bad information because maybe they didn't ask the right questions what did we learn from True Detective season 4
you you keep bring that show up I just love that they they came up you know they present had this idea which is so
true in what we do here in the garage when we're researching these cases and exactly what detectives do it's you're
only going to get the right answers when you ask the right questions and the right questions most of the time are
just not so obvious right questions right suspects now I don't know if we have the
right suspects in both of these cases but there are certainly some interesting suspects and there are going to be
suspects that will present themselves put themselves on the radar if you will in both of these homicide cases and
these suspects will by far overshadow anybody on the inner Social Circle of these two young ladies the first that
presents itself Captain I I wish we were just talking one-on-one right now because I
think you're going to love this portion of the story so the first portion the first potential suspect or let's say
suspects right it's a suspect pool here that we're going to present to you right
this pops up on the radar in May of 1984 on the other side of the country out in San Francisco
California and this is when correspondence when a letter arrives to the FBI office out there where the
letter writer is confessing to committing Espionage but they are remaining Aon that is what you heard in the trailer at
the start of this episode is that letter from the unknown writer to the San Francisco FBI office they received that
in May the person is stating I've been committing Espionage and I have I've been going against my country I've been
selling secrets to the Soviets and I'm I feel bad about this and oh by the way I'm doing it with
other persons too I've been making money off of this but I'm willing to stop doing this I'm willing to turn myself in
and I'm willing to turn in my cohorts but I would like you to show leniency or I believe immunity immunity
immunity was the request now I don't know that anybody would expect you'd have to be a crazy person to expect to
get full Immunity on on selling secrets to the Soviets now is the government or military allowed to say yeah we'll we'll
give you immunity and then go psych well is the government allowed to lie is that
what we're asking um look yeah don't get me started I'm going to go on record and
say two things one I love our government and two not only are they allowed to lie
but they do it to us every day um that's you love the ones that hurt you the most I just want them to know that I
am a fan so don't come after me I I've got other problems I don't need the government on my back yeah every now
and then I pick up my phone and I whisper into it I love you government please don't kill me the
letter writer is is trying to set up an exchange of communication with the FBI yeah and saying look I'm going to if you
want to communicate with me place an ad a one a one ad in the CL specified section of this specific newspaper but
only on Mondays I will monitor it every Monday I will monitor that section every
Monday and look for you to communicate with me because I what the letter writer wants is hey can you guarantee me this
before I reveal myself to you and the letter writer the while it's Anonymous they are calling themselves I guess Russ
or capital r capital u capital s and so communicate with me via the classified section of this newspaper only on
Mondays and they do there is some back and forth between the FBI and this Russ character but at some point the
communication tapers off and the FBI walks away from this going okay we what the letter writer is stating is so vague
we can't prove anything from what we've received from them that there's actual Espionage or crimes being committed here
and unless this person continues to communicate with us we don't fully know what's going on but they can also gather
from the communication that they think that you know what maybe Russ is getting cold feet and doesn't want to turn
himself in right so San Francisco's office is investigating this the listeners will want to know that the
letter they did track down that the letter came from Sacramento and I believe there were
about a million and a half people living in Sacramento at the time so that's not
of great help and of course just because a letter is mailed from there doesn't mean that one of the good people of
Sacramento had to be the ones to mail that letter anybody can drive into town and drop something off in in the mail
slot there we're going to fast forward a few months later and we're going to go back to the other side of the country
where we started on the East Coast this is back to the east side di this is when the
FBI gets contacted in September of 1984 and they're contacted by a one Barbara Walker and she is actually
separated from her husband her ex-husband is John Walker she calls up I believe she might even have been quite
intoxicated when she called up but she calls up and she says look sounds like us when we're do a podcast she calls she
calls the FBI and could could be quite intoxicated I don't know hey guys I just want to call you tell you this Beard's
good well she tells them that her ex-husband John Walker has been selling secrets to the Soviets for many years
now and making a bunch of money off of it of course the FBI now they have to sort out well is this just an angry
ex-wife who's trying to set up her husband for something drunk out of her mind or is this uh there's some smoke
and plenty of fire situation what makes this interesting to the FBI is John Walker himself worked
for the Navy for many years and he worked on submarines as well yeah I don't have his exact rank in front of me
here but at this point in our timeline in 1984 who is John Walker well John Walker
former naval officer oh by the way some of his work was out of the Norfolk area for the Navy and then after he retired
he's still in that Norfolk Virginia area but he's running like a private investigator company so he owns his own
company and they're they're fairly successful they're not they're not crazy big time but they're fairly successful
she's accusing him of selling secrets to the N to the Soviets and what she says is that she doesn't know a whole lot
about it right he didn't like openly talk about this with her when they were together and and if he did she was drunk
out of her mind and forgot all about it well he told me some stuff but I just wasn't listening but she says that from
her understanding he started doing this when he was working for the Navy and then managed somehow to continue to do
this even after he had gone on to create his own company this Private Investigations company she believes and
tells the FBI that she believes that he had made over a million dollars and I think she referenced a million and a
half at the time of her call which you go back to the early 80s and during his time in the Navy
which would have been in the late 60s and 70s all through the 70s that's a whole lot of cashola that's some cash
but the worst part about it is he never paid taxes on it well the worst part of it we we
shouldn't laugh because there's there's a I would guess I don't know what exact information he had sold to the Soviets
in fact it was later proven that he had sold it to the KGB without going through
all of this the saddest part of it is the worst part of it is he his these secrets this information may have killed
some of our own men and women yeah uh in in the armed forces so and that's that's
not good well and that's why it's you don't want you can't take these things lightly right this this Espionage and so
now they're looking at this guy and they're trying to figure out okay is this just a an angry old ex-wife coming
after this dude trying to set him up and the one thing that they're starting to question too is look they spy on us we
spy on them they know some things we do we know some things that they do and the
FBI at the time and the CIA was working under this idea that maybe the story is not true because a million and a half
dollars sounds like a lot of money like it they had some evidence to suggest that the KGB didn't pay out that kind of
money for Secrets now this million a half dollars was collected over a long period of time to try to keep this story
moving along here Captain because this John Walker story is huge and it became a very big story in the mid 80s here in
the United States and parts of it got pretty sensationalized wonky donkey like we
like to say but what we're going to have here is John Walker plus the persons that were working with him to sell these
this information to the Soviets this will go on to become what is now known today as the Walker spy ring yeah so we
got several people that are working together here and had done so for many years and what M this is where it gets
hard to try to separate what could be sensationalized about this walker spy ring story and what could be truth
that's just buried in the story itself mhm naturally people started to wonder well if you have this amount of money
exchanging hands you have all of this illegal activity that's going on all of this covering up and these shadowy
figures they started to wonder what else could persons in the Spy ring be responsible for what other crimes in the
area could they have committed would they have murdered someone to shut them up or if somebody was on to one of them
would they have murdered them to keep them quiet and that is how members of this
walker spy ring become suspects in the unsolved murders of Carol Anne molar and Pamela kimw all right I'm on the edge of
my seat drunk out of my mind calling the FBI what else do we know about this I mean okay so these guys possibly
were capable of murder that doesn't link them enough for me to these cases how how are they linked to these cases so
they're working in the area at the time and then what we get is John Walker and his son so he recruited his son Michael
to join in on the Spy ring activity his son also worked for our government um I can't recall if he was I believe he was
in Navy as well his daughter Laura he attempted to recruit her as well Laura Walker she was in the Navy as
well and she turned him down she's like no I don't I I don't think she was aware
that he was doing this until he offered to bring her in on it right and she says
no I don't want any part of this but she doesn't go anywhere with the information
she doesn't take that information to anybody it's the ex-wife Barbara Crowley who turns him in they got divorced in
1976 she's phoning this in in September of 1984 she says that she learned about this she
hadd been sitting on this information for over 10 years well thanks a lot you're exactly right while I do not
appreciate that I guess better late than never yeah maybe but and her defense okay she learns about this information
okay well how serious it is is it how serious is this and should I go to law enforcement and how much danger Will I
put myself in by going to law enforcement I mean so in her defense if I got some juicy information about some
bad people you have to then question do you want to turn over that information and put yourself at risk well and it
will turn out that the person that was remorseful that wanted to come forward that wanted to
stop doing this that was John Walker so that letter that was received the anonymous letter the anonymous letter
Russ came from from Mr Walker now Mr Walker as we said already recruited his son Michael who was
involved his brother was involved as well who was also the also a military man and then another guy by the name of
Jerry Wht worth He was a senior chief petty officer in the Navy and you never get into business with your brother well
you have so you have these four that are known to be doing this he attempted to recruit his daughter who
said no later when she's confronted by the FBI she does tell them what she knows now the wife Barbara the ex-wife
the way that she came to find out that her husband was working as a spy for the Soviets she's sleeping with Jon's
brother while they're still married and it's John's brother that tells Barbara that oh yeah your husband's your
husband's a spy I'm a spy too but don't worry about it we're it's not that big of a deal we're not selling crazy
important information to the Soviets and we're just making a lot of cash in fact
he tries to sell it to Barbara as saying like a lot of people do it there's a lot
of people in government and in the armed forces that do this it's not that big of
a deal oh but this makes Barbara sex spy I don't believe anything that the brother's saying I don't think that many
people in the government or in the military are in fact doing this I think he was just trying to well I think he's
just trying to downplay it so that she doesn't run off to the authorities and which we know that she did eventually I
think she could have been easily talked out of it and again I think she may have
been intoxicated and and and full of anger when she chose to call it in because we do have her on record later
when her ex-husband his brother Jerry Whitworth they're all busted but keep in mind all at the same time her son is
busted as well her son Michael who was doing this was busted as well and she did say on record after the fact I would
have never went to the authorities had I known Michael was involved she didn't know like she told the authorities she
didn't know everything that was going on didn't have a great understanding of it
this is I only know a little bit here's what I know and she said that had I known that my son was doing this I would
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filthy sex spin cheers to you all tall cans in the air onward and upward are there any sex
spies that are not filthy I think I think that's part of the I would love to be a filthy sex spy
well the way that this all works here is we have another individual that is attempting to run guns they're
attempting to sell illegal firearms and we're talking about by the case load my friend hundreds of thousands of dollars
stood to be made by selling guns what they're doing Captain is when they get on to this John Walker this walker spy
ring and the persons involved the Navy and the FBI very wisely they decide you know we're not we're not just going to
kick in the door no we're going to surveil these guys for a while we're going to see what they're up to let's
see if we can find out exactly who they are working with and how they are going about this business of selling secrets
to the Soviets during the portion of this surveillance they learn that Walker and
his son and members of the Spy ring they like to do things like they act like to
be kind of like flamboyant gangsters right like have money show that they have money Drive flashy cars hang out
with young women party at night go to these clubs and that's where they think that there may have been some crossover
between Carol and Molar and a person or persons in this spy ring could she have been killed
because she knew too much and one thing that's really interesting is we talked so much about where her body was found
her body was found not far from where one of the persons in the Spy ring docked their boat and I believe it was a
house boat and we talk so much about having to have access to the Naval Base due to where our victims were found but
if waterers involved I don't know that you have to absolutely have full access to where Carol Anne molar was
discovered meaning meaning if you used a boat to place her where she was I don't
I think you could get her to where she was found without being granted access to the base where the opposite is the
case for Pamela Kimu where Pamela kimw was found and how the nature of that crime in that investigation
that person had to already be on the base to attack her and attempt to conceal the body I'm going to say
something again call me out on it if I'm dumb very a lot of similarities right if
she made it back on the base Carol right right they would have record that she made it back on the base and then she
would there'd be a record of what individual she was with and you would have to believe that either she did that
without the use of her vehicle or or her and her vehicle made it onto the base and somehow somebody moved the vehicle
off of the base but not her yeah cuz I was just thinking is it possible that she met somebody at the
bar they started heading in the direction back home things weren't going his way but that's not possible right
because essentially she's back on the base does that make sense what I'm saying she's found yes she's found in
the naval airspace sorry she's found in the Navy Air Station portion of that base now when we say seaw wall it's my
understanding captain that they're talking about the the seaw walls that would separate they kind of protrude out
into the water yeah what I'm getting at if she's found on the outside of that or
if and there's no nice way of saying this if she was a floater she could have just she could
have either been placed where she was was found or she could have ended up where she was found after being just
tossed into the water or or disposed of in some other form or fashion I apologize for the the crude remarks and
again we don't have enough information I think to really decipher exactly how she
ended up where she was where with the reverse is true with Pamela Kimu we can say with near certainty that we
understand how she ended up in the water I mean she was placed in her car in the
back seat and that vehicle was submerged in the water her and her vehicle were on
the base her and her vehicle were found in the waters of the base right that's pretty simple to me somebody on the base
that was there at that time of night or morning we should say it was roughly 4:00 a.m. when she was killed they were
able to narrow it down until about 400 a.m. on that faithful day the issue here is as said these persons would frequent
some of these clubs there was also persons suggesting that maybe Carol Anne molar had some kind of
I hate to use the word relationship because people always jump to what that may mean yeah but there is some
information out there that say says that maybe she had interactions with one or two of these guys which would make sense
if she works at the club and they frequent the clubs there is information out there too that states that okay so
we're going to we're fast forward a little bit this again this walker spy ring thing was was a big deal in the mid
80s and as I said earlier it I believe it got very sensationalized this was selling newspapers and then later it's
going to sell books and one of the individuals that covered the case and wrote a book on the case States in his
book and states in newspapers I talked to NIS and they told me that yes these spiring guys are suspects in three
murders the murders of Pamela kimw Carol and Molar the two victim that we've discussed at length and also a
Portsmith Virginia detective now his death was actually ruled a suicide but there were things at the scene that
people thought didn't line up with the Su with a suicide so detective Joiner was found the official cause of death
ruled suicide he had shot himself but the way that the gun was found in his hand didn't make sense it's
like facing the opposite direction he's holding it in his left hand rather than than his dominant hand his right hand
and that case has never really moved off of what it was ruled as a suicide but you have persons
that this author cites private investigators and nameless NIS workers or nameless
persons Anonymous sources from the FBI I believe is how they stated that these men or one of these men in the Spy ring
is responsible for some or one or all three of these murders what we do get captain is years later and I I love when
when things get squashed right you you got you got to smash it when it's when it's just wrong it's just wrong you have
the FBI that came out later and says we never said that we we've never openly said that we believe that these guys
killed anybody or in fact are even directly tied to these murders in particular what no the FBI goes on
record and says we never said that so what you have is you have somebody's lying either the author is lying or the
FBI is lying but you know the FBI motives well the FBI is isn't just one person so if if the authors's lying that
author knows for for certain if it's the FBI they may not know for sure there could be somebody within their
organization that sat down and had drinks with this author and said oh yeah yeah we we were looking at these guys
for murder too so here we sit with this interesting idea that one or somebody involved in the spiry ring could have
murdered one of these women or both of these women it's easy to kind of connect the dots and say okay that makes some
sense but again you have one source telling us yes this is true there's some smoke here and then you have another
source and that Source being the FBI saying no there is no smoke here the FBI that is 1984 that is
1985 in 1985 to kind of sum up The Walker spy rings story John Walker Jr did plead guilty he he did a plea
bargain with Federal prosecutors which he was forced to testify against his co-conspirators and again that included
this Jerry witor it included his son Michael Walker and it included his brother and
John Walker I believe passed away in prison while he was serving his time the next
suspect Falls onto the radar in November of 1985 this is a man that would go on to be known as several different names
we are choosing to call him the Florida vampire but this is a man who abducted a
woman while he was living in Melbourne Florida in November of 1985 he holds her captive
in his home where he is for a lack of better terms sexually torturing her for an extended period of time now she gets
lucky and I say she gets lucky because she gets away and I actually believe that this guy has got some victims that
never got away yeah the police and the FBI think so is as well because later they would tell us he needs to be a
suspect in the unsolved murders of Pamela kimw and Carol an molar this man's name is John Brennan
crutchley the vampire of Florida it's exactly right so he abducted this woman during a time period when his wife and
child were out of town and if you believe some of the information in the Long Island serial
killer case you're immediately jumping and thinking to that case yeah he abducts this woman she gets lucky she
gets away this guy has clearance has military clearance he didn't work for the military he worked as a contractor
for the military mhm he was an engineer he was a systems engineer he moved around a lot
and during the course of that moving around he would work for some of these military bases there's good reason to
believe he he lived in Norfolk for a while what the authorities want to figure out he moved so for my
understanding Captain he moved from Norfolk Virginia down to Florida in 1983 right and we know that Pamela Kimu
was killed in 1982 in Northfolk Virginia and we know that Carol and Molar was killed in 1983 in Virginia the problem
with the Carol and Molar case as far as John Brennan crutchley Florida vampire goes I can't figure out I've not been
able to find a definitive date of when he moves from Virginia in 1983 down to Florida right what we do know is he did
move in the course of that year so if he moved prior to February 6th and was not
in Northfolk Virginia then he could not physically be responsible for the Carol and Molar case yeah or he was going back
and forth and move a little bit out of time so he is somebody that came onto radar and and was being looked at not
just in these two homicides we're talking about in many homicides in fact so many homicides that when you and I
started looking at crutchley we decided this is too big of a story we've got to we've got to take a look at this guy put
him under the microscope and see what else he could be responsible for and I hesitate I want to I would like to tell
the listeners this is just the tip of the iceberg with this guy in this story no the no there is so much bizarre
behavior strange Behavior evil Behavior about this guy that I don't I hesitate to even start to go down that road
because one thing that we need to discuss is that there was actually some justice for our
victims so while we sit here today captain and we say unfortunately the Carol an molar case is still unsolved
the NIS who was looking at the murder of Pamela kimw they got a huge break in 1995 in the
case that is when and I'm happy to report this will be our recommended reading again uh for the second time the
solving cold cases author Joe D Kennedy so Kennedy was on the Cold Case task force he was on the task force that
decided to take a second look at the Pamela kimw case when he gets a hold of the file he starts looking through the
file and he realizes wait a second we've got a good suspect that's already in our
file she was killed in 1982 he's looking at this in 1995 the suspect is Richard Whitt Richard
Whittle had access to the base in fact he was out working that night the same night that Pamela Kimu
was killed and like we said not only do they have to have access but they also to have access at that time period of
night so the Pamela Kimu case is discussed in his book and that's another reason to pick it up but the cool thing
about his book is that you can apply it to any Cold Case and how you choose to look at the information that's out there
and and the evidence that's out there in any Cold Case now remember we said in the early weeks after several weeks of
work NIS had reported to the newspapers that in the kimw case that they had talked to
798 persons they had interviewed 798 people about the case and then later 1995 Joe Kennedy Cold Case expert takes
a look at it and he goes wait a second I think I think our guy is already somebody that we've talked to he's
already in the file and that was that Richard Whittle who was working that night and why does hone in on Richard
Whittle it's because Richard Whittle told NIS one thing and told people he worked with another thing he told he
told the authorities yeah I knew who she was but I never saw her I didn't I didn't see her that night I had seen her
in days right yet he tells other people that he worked with yeah you know because it was it was something I mean
if a person gets murdered body found at at the place where all of us work of course we're going to talk about it of
course he tells these other people well yeah not only do I you know do you remember when that woman was killed oh
yeah not only do I remember but uh I I was questioned because I was the last person may have been the last person to
see her that night so that doesn't line up with what he's telling police so if you if you are the detective and forgive
me if I slip and say police we're so used to saying police but n when you when you tell a detective one thing and
then other people something else the detective immediately wants to know he he or she is if they're a good detective
they're not going to immediately jump to oh Richard whittle's the killer no they're going to go he's a liar but a
lot of people lie and I want to know why he is lying about this yeah does that make him my killer he's living out in
California in 1995 I'll back up the truck just a little bit here Captain because I have a
suspicion about this investigation I don't think that this cold case task force just happened to
pick up this case File in 1995 and take a look at it MH what was happening what we do know was happening was Florida
authorities were taking a hardcore look at John Brenan crutchley Florida Vampire
who's already locked up and in prison they're taking a hard look at him in 1995 they they re open up their
investigation on him and they are going to other states where they know that he lived for a period of time trying to
find out if he has any other victims one of those States they go to is Virginia so I think that that kind of
kickstarted or maybe reinvigorated the investigation into these two cold cases so a lot of sense to me yeah so in 1995
Richard whittles living out in California and Kennedy is really darn good at what he does so he flies out
there with another detective and just plays dumb right oh yeah we're out here we don't you know your name was in we're
only out here because your name was in the file we don't you know think you really have any information or any
importance to the case but we have to re-interview everybody and you were interviewed before and so yeah he says
yeah I remember her and blah blah blah and so the conversation has started they have
DNA in Pamela Kimber case Kennedy knows that he's got to get whittle's DNA and then oh this guy this
guy is gross this guy is disgusting when they get out to California and find out
what he's been up to he's he's been kind of living two lives right on one hand he's he's got a a wife who who I think
required being taken care of I think she had some health issues and needed a caretaker right he's taking care of her
and they have a child together but while he's out there he he gets in trouble for
exposing himself to some people in the area I believe he's even I don't want to go into to to what I know we don't need
to get into specifics which we know that's not good because I've been told by law enforcement many times that I
can't do that we know that this is type of behaviors going on and it get if you want to take a look at Richard Whittle
it gets more gross than that but to keep it short and and not so sweet he was exposing himself to persons that's what
he called it short and sweet Kennedy sends a female officer to widow's neighborhood under the ruse that
she's out there conducting a survey of persons that live in the area and all would you
fill this out while I ask you some questions she's going door to door knocking on doors would you fill this
out while I ask you some questions oh by the we're going to pay you for your time
we'll pay you and uh we just need to when you're done with your questionnaire just fold it up for me and place it in
that envelope but we need our envelopes to be sealed right so we make sure that the right people get
paid so Whittle licks that envelope seals it up hands it back to her and then off she goes ass and of course now
it's only a matter of time before they're going to find out does his DNA match the suspect DNA that they have in Pamela
Kim's case and it absolutely does but Joe Kennedy is I I I don't want to use the burrito
supreme reference anymore yeah it's it's kind of played it's kind of played but since we out son since we entered
Florida into the conversation we will talk let's how about we use a reference that is is more about Florida so to the
extreme right Vanilla Ice uh from Miami Florida so Joe Kennedy is detective to the extreme yeah word to your mother he
says I yeah I got the DNA and I could have this guy locked up right now but you know what I want that's not good
enough I want a confession he brings him in questions him tells him we got your DNA tells him that oh by the way the ski
mask that we found in the back of her car we found your hairs in it and we know that you knew her based off of our
previous questioning guy breaks down and confess confesses so Kennedy takes us from a Cold Case to a DNA confession
case wow rather quickly and this dude is locked up he gets two life sentences one
for the rape one for the murder of Pamela Kimu now you go well did he kill Carol Anne molar the following year in a
case that has so many similarities yeah what we do know about Whittle is we do know that he
moved shortly after Kim's murder and like John crutchley we don't have that specific
date he could have moved beforehand but what we do know is that it's been reported and it's
been stated that the DNA in the Pamela kimw case does not match the suspect DNA that they have in Carol and
molnar's case we get one solved that's a great start right and I have every reason to believe
Captain the Carol an molar case is active and that they are still investigating and still looking for her
[Music] killing [Music] want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and every week
make sure you subscribe to the show Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners we
have recommended this before and of course we have to recommend it again due to this week's garage conversations so
our recommendation is a book titled solving cold cases investigation and protocol by by Joe D Kennedy Joe Kennedy
is the Cold Case expert that solved the Pamela an kimw Cold Case homicide and put a pervert rapist and murderer
Richard Whittle where he belongs and that's behind bars removed from society learn just about everything there is to
know about solving cold cases from one of the experts this week's recommendation solving cold cases by Joe
D Kennedy you can find that great title plus podcast and documentaries on our recommended page true Crim garage.com
and until next week be good be kind be cool and don't [Music] [Applause] litter [Music]

Murder at N.A.S. Norfolk /// Part 2 /// 748

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Carolyn Ann Molnar, a 21 year old Navy clerk, disappeared February 6, 1983. Her body was found about 3 months later at the Naval Air Station in Norfolk, Virginia. A year prior Pamela Anne Kimbrue, a 23 year old Navy messenger, disappeared from the Navy base. She was later found in her car, submerged at the end of a seaplane wall. Her killer tied her arms behind her back with clothesline. This week in the Garage, Nic and the Captain discuss these two homicide cases from N.A.S. Norfolk.

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Brief Summary

The episode investigates the unsolved murders of Navy personnel linked to espionage activities and the Walker spy ring.

Key points

Creating Your Outdoor Oasis. Transform your backyard into a tranquil retreat or lively party space with NFM's selection.
True Crime Garage Introduction. Join hosts Nick and the Captain as they dive into true crime stories.
Espionage Confession Letter. A letter to the FBI reveals a writer's involvement in espionage for the USSR.
Unsolved Murders of Navy Ladies. Exploring the similarities between two unsolved murders of Navy women in the early 80s.
The John Walker Spy Ring. The story of John Walker, a former naval officer selling secrets to the Soviets.
The Walker Spy Ring's Dark Secrets. The Walker spy ring becomes suspects in unsolved murders, raising chilling questions about their activities.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I have been involved in Espionage for several years.

Letter from an anonymous writer

3:51WatchApr 3, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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