Maura Murray /// Julie Murray Interview /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

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talk some true [Music] crime [Music] after graduating high school Mara Murray who was a good student and dedicated
athlete competing and excelling and tracking field she attended military school reports are conflicting as to why
she left but whatever the case she left and enrolled in University of Massachusetts
Amherst on February 9th 2004 for reasons that are unknown Mara Murray who at the
time was 21 years of age left school and drove north towards New Hampshire sometime between 7: and 7:30
p.m. she was involved in a single car accident on Route 112 in havo her Father Fred believes that the
car stalled when she was going around a turn and went into a snowbank Mara knew this area fairly well
and had been there several times before she even called a place that her family had stayed at before possibly to reserve
a night or two for her to stay However no such Arrangements were made from what we have been told her family and school
mates do not know why she was driving there that evening she was supposed to be at school and her car was in no shape
to be driving that distance a bus driver who lived across the street from the accident according to his statement he
spotted her car on the side of the road and offered assistance Mara told him that she was fine and that she had
already called for roadside assistance and they were in route the bus driver called the police but by the time
authorities arriv arrived Mara had vanished some believe that she was walking or running East on the road Mara
vanished sometime after the accident and has not been seen since her father believes she may have met with Foul Play
Fred noted that she was in the middle of nowhere with no place to go due to her damaged car he believes that she
accepted a ride from a stranger who then killed her some believe she vanished voluntarily and does not want to be
found another theory is that Mara wandered off into the woods and died of exposure these are just three of many
theories in this case we featured Mara's case several times on both True Crime garage and off the Record the strange
missing person's case of Mara Murray is one of the more popular Mysteries of the
last 20 years and unfortunately Mars case remains unsolved [Music] we're coming up on the 16th year
anniversary of The Disappearance of Mara Murray True Crime garage was able to sit
down and talk with Julie Murray Mara's sister this interview is a long time in the making
and so we're glad to finally be able to do that and present it to everybody and hopefully we're able to create a better
understanding of who Mara was as a person maybe clear up some misunderstandings or
misreporting on some of the events of her [Music] disappearance all right Julie it's good
to talk to you we met at Prime con con you were very excited to meet me as as I was very excited to meet you as well uh
very intimidated by you because I haven't been doing my CrossFit and I don't think you take a
day off well I was you know thanks for having me on and I was a little intimidated by the line to meet you
wrapped around the corner um but I was very glad that I got a chance to meet you and you know you don't need to do
CrossFit every day um we talked about it you'll get back on the wagon yeah I think the line was to meet Nick um my
line was a lot smaller so your sister went missing and has really become a internet sensation almost do
you remember the first time or who told you that you're sister was missing yeah I I was at Fort Brag
North Carolina uh in the Army I was a I think I had just pinned on first lieutenant I
might have been a second Lieutenant we were actually getting ready to deploy to to Iraq and I think the call came in
from Kathleen my older sister initially and it was basically frantic like have you heard from
Mara and I told her no hadn't what's going on and she said she's missing her car was found somewhere in New Hampshire
it it was kind of very frantic and vague the first phone call um and then later on I remember talking to my dad and he
was asking the same set of questions and of course I had no idea where she was or
what happened so it was extremely stressful for me to be that far away and just sit by the phone and just wait for
some answers so that went on for the rest of that night and I was calling everyone and my
mom was frantic my whole family was frantic and initially I said Dad okay I'm I've got to get leave through the
army so that I can come up and figure out what's going on and he said oh hold up I'm going to go up there and figure
things out right so that was the initial notification that I received was there communication between the family
about why Mara was where she was at no one had a clue right no one had a clue so that was that was the big thing and
that was kind of what caused us well obviously that she she was missing we knew that it was her car um but we kept
asking well why why is she there and it was this big mystery from the minute that that I got the phone call like it
was a Monday night it was during the school year there was no reason for her that I
knew at the time to be up there and like you said since the beginning this case has had those two questions one why was
she there and then what happened and I don't want to put words into anybody's mouth but to me it seems like a lot of
these theories of why she would be up there have either gone nowhere or they just seem very far-fetched like you have
to LEAP from a to uh T to get there right that's exactly right and and that's I think that's part of the
Intrigue of the case is that we know so little we don't know her motive for going up there in the first place and
then there are there's such little evidence thereafter once we know that she did go missing that just can Boggle
the mind and it has it's boggled my mind first going on 16 years now you guys grew up playing sports together but
besides uh running track what sports did you guys actually play together we played every single sport there
is we played softball we played soccer we played basketball we played we made up Sports we played handball We we
played um we used to watch America Gladiator remember that show oh yeah yeah it was a pretty pretty cool show it
was kind of like the the early 2000s version of American Ninja Warrior yeah for those that don't know and I love
that show and so we would like try to recreate the fet of strength or an obstacle from that show and just battle
each other did you guys ever try to build one of those tennis ball Shooters remember remember the tennis
ball shooter they had had oh yeah those were so cool uh no but we we didn't try to build one but we did go to the
batting cages um quite often actually with my dad and uh we always had fun we would practice together we'd play
together we were usually on the same teams like growing up in high school and cuz the age difference is what yeah so
it was two and a half years yeah so not that far yeah yeah so pretty competitive
with each other who was who was better well it depends on what we were doing Mara was a better runner for sure
I like to think I was a better uh soccer player a cool little story about Mara with basketball is she was so good at
free throw shooting there was a there was a basically a qualification for the state where you shoot 10 and the best
out of 10 moves forward and it was kind of a um um a big deal in Massachusetts and
she made it all the way to the state finals where she got to shoot free throws at halime of the Celtics game
that's awesome yeah pretty awesome and so you were pretty jealous of that I was really jealous I was her ball girl I
well I was thankful that I was able to go and go out on you know on the the court for the the pre like before the
Celtics even came out for the warmup they that they had the kids come in really early and I was her
rebounder but you know she wasn't ever going to let you live that down oh no if I'm sure if she was here with us right
now she would be telling you oh yeah you my ball girl so you guys are really close in high
school and then she follows you to college yeah so I got into West Point and I I went there um two years ahead
she was still in in high school and then when she was getting ready to choose a college she she applied to West Point as
well which is not not that easy to get into and you have to get a congressional nomination and yeah you got to go
through a whole bunch of uh tests and you it's not easy to get in it's it's very prestigious to get in yeah and so
she she got in uh she also ran track with with me on the track team which was great because at West Point everything's
so structured and you don't have any time so we were able to see each other multiple times a day which is you know
very rare um for any other Cadets that were siblings there that weren't on the same sports team so well better for her
than you because you've been there you I know but yeah you were Paving your own path but then your little sister gets
there yeah and it was so cool it was so cool to talk about her when she was still in high school to my teammates at
West Point and then I would always tell them you know I hope she comes she's an awesome Runner you guys would love her
and then when she was finally there it was it was really cool but yeah so then your your father which ever since uh I
started looking into your sister's disappearance there's a bunch of different I don't know assumptions about
your dad right but some people think it's strange that he pushed you guys so hard or that's their
words but as a kid that played a lot of sports there's been so many times where I've been reading about your father and
I just think why couldn't Fred be my dad cuz to me that just seems um to an athlete or somebody that is competitive
to have a parent be that invested in you is that a correct term or or the correct way to look at your dad
absolutely and anyone that says that my dad pushed us or pushed us too hard does
not know my dad because my dad did not push us it was us we pushed ourselves um and this that's just the nature of a
distance Runner distance Runners have to push themselves no one's out there on the lonely road with you at Mile you
know seven of a 10 mile run you're by yourself you push yourself that's just the mindset that distance Runners have
and so you know I used to get upset when people said you know categorize my dad as kind of like
a um just mean authoritarian just guy that was pushing us to the brink that is so inaccurate he actually told us to do
less all the time and both Mara and I wanted to get a job in high school so we could get a little you know spending
money and he's like no you're you don't need a job your focus needs to be on schoolwork and having fun and running
you don't have time to add a job on top of that right so but you still wanted spending money so did he give you guys
some runaround money well if we asked but Mar and I we never asked really for anything like our the biggest thing we
ever wanted was like crap food candy Pizza um or in cool like whatever the cool sweatshirt was the champion
sweatshirts or whatever but we didn't even care about that like we just we wanted to take it easy on them because
we we had a big family and both my parents worked and they worked hard and we didn't have a lot of money so we
didn't want to we weren't needy kids is what I'm trying to say the time that you
got to spend with your father doing that is invaluable yeah absolutely like he and he he gave us the resources that we
needed and the biggest resource was time his time yeah um and we spent hours and
hours and hours on the basketball court trying to perfect our free throw for instance and
clearly Mar did that by making it all the way to the Garden or um perfecting our we used to pitch fast pitch softball
we would spend hours doing that and we loved it it's also free it's free for a family that maybe doesn't have a lot of
money exactly so your dad had to be super proud of not just one of his girls but two of his girls going to West Point
and so when she started at West Point what was the what do you think her energy she was
like well she knew she knew what to expect going in because I made sure she knew and um a lot of what you do as a uh
we call it a plea the first year Cadet is just wrote memorization and you've got to memorize all these different
things and then you have to recite them so I'm like hey Mara here's my old plea handbook start memorizing these things
it'll make your life easier right you know she did that um and so she she excelled I just don't
think her heart was ever really in it once once she got there well that's hard for people to explain though too is you
can go to a college that you looked into and and visited and you did all these things and then all a sudden you get
there and you just don't feel like you're fitting in do you think she had any of that or was it just she was
fitting in or could could have fit in but she just didn't want to or yeah I think it's the latter I think she could
have she she did fit in um she the school work was no problem for her obviously the running she was doing
great um she was the I think maybe the one or two top recruits coming in as a freshman as a sophomore she was she was
beating me um and you know beating the Juniors and seniors on the team she was she was doing well it's the military
stuff that I don't think she enjoyed or definitely didn't enjoy as much as I did
um she was more much more of a free spirit uh I'm more structured and so I like my routine and my everything in
order and she was a little bit less of of that um militant type Yeah clean room messy room you seem like the clean room
she seemed like the messy room type and so she she was she was a mess I know that has been talked about a lot on the
Internet is there anything that has been misreported about it or any anything that you want to talk about as far as
the her time at West Point transferring over to the new school uh yeah I mean well let's just talk about the the
issues at West Point so some of the issues were the craziest things you could ever imagine like she she was at a
summer training her second year down at um Fort Knox and she was at what we call
the PX Post Exchange and it's just a place where people that live on the post or are visiting or there for training go
and you get a discount on whatever it is it's kind of like a Walmart for the Army
right um and so she's in there and she walks out and the uh military police person stops her and says what's in your
pocket or something and she had I think it was four or5 worth of lip gloss maybe
just in her pocket at the Fort Knox PX so Mara was not an idiot I don't know for sure why it was in her pocket if she
just forgot you know essentially it was um it was a problem because cadetes can't lie cheat or steal or tolerate
those who do that's our code that's you know what we have to vow to when we first enter um so anyway
she she got caught for that and then she had to go through a what we call a honor
hearing Cadet honor hearing it's basically like a trial run by your peers other Cadets um and it was stressful for
her I was part of the the trial as a character witness for her and I remember going in to say you know she I think she
just forgot or she didn't mean knew if she was going to steal something it would have been something more
substantial than $4 lip gloss right but on one hand you can go well maybe that's
why she didn't think it was so bad there four it's lip gloss I'll just put in my
pocket real quick and just move on yeah well that would be I I could see how you
could think that but she also had the money to buy it so I'm I'm not sure what the motivation would have been but what
are you thinking in your head like I mean this is your this is your baby sister yeah I'm like like what are you
doing that's why would you do that it doesn't make any sense as she was kind of going through that whole process it
got to a point where it was just too overwhelming like she was having to miss classes and her her grades were dropping
and she was missing practices and it just wasn't fun anymore and it wasn't um she just decided it wasn't for her so
she actually voluntarily left West Point after her second year and so after your
second year at West Point point you have to sign a or take an oath to serve in the military so a lot of
cadetes leave after their second year because they they decide at that point hey I don't think this military thing is
is me I don't think I'm cut out for this right um and I think she realized I think she realized that so you what
you're saying is if you stay past your second year you have to sign up to join the military yeah y yeah you're locked
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that [Music] all right cheers me mate cheers to you Captain yes I am here in the garage you
hear me and if you've listened to our little show before then you know that all of our old episodes are available on
the free Stitcher listening app I am saying that because we have covered Mara Murray's case several times before and
if you want want to listen to those you can look up our coverage of Mars's case this is in episodes 28 and 29 from May
of 2016 and also in episodes 152 and 153 from October of 2017 now where we left off Captain you
are kind of getting into one of the biggest questions that that takes place early on in this case one of the things
out there that people have speculated on many times over why would Mara leave West Point or was she kicked out did she
get run out of there did she run out of there what happened and really truly this is what I love when we get the
opportunity to speak to family members and to speak to people that are close to these cases usually you get a pretty
simple answer to something that's been widely speculated right and this is a very simple answer that makes a lot of
sense okay you're going to sign up this is a hard and fast rule here you're going to sign up for 5 years of military
service that sounds scary if your heart is not into it and it sounds like Mara's
heart was not into it I did want to comment a quick thought that I had regarding the the theft of the lip gloss
right I don't want to question her sister too much regarding her thoughts and opinions on it because she was at
the trial what I find interesting there is that she still has questions about but she was at these
proceedings where we have an opportunity for Mara to defend herself or shine a light on why was this item stolen from
the uh from the the little store there I almost wonder if if this is some kind of
not necessarily a cry for help but almost a I'm not really digging this because of maybe the military portion of
what this education involves mhm maybe was this a a way out that wasn't so such a serious offense you know I'm not a bad
person but they have such strict rules if I do something as small as this maybe I am shoved out of here or maybe it
gives me an out yeah or it could be just carelessness I put something in my pocket didn't realize it was there
walked out now now I'm busted why did you steal this stuff well I didn't steal the stuff I just forgot was
there and and no matter how many times you tell somebody that and you go well here's the items back I'm you know I
forgot it in my pocket I've I have forgot stuff in my pocket before uh I just never got caught but you know you
get to your car and you're like oh crap why did I put that thing in my pocket I don't know I just did
so well and this the store The Establishment whatever it may be can't vary well just
accept the the idea of oh I put it in my pocket and forgot because if they just accepted that reasoning they would have
to accept that a hundred times a month and everybody would be putting things in their pocket and just forgetting so yeah
it's one of those sticky situations and I just wonder you know hearing Julie's thoughts
on it I almost expected to hear more of an understanding as to why it happened other than I mean cuz really what I'm
with there is either she intended to steal it and then what was the reasoning behind that was it that she is just
plain and simple a thief yeah I think in the next little bit she'll actually get
to Mara's reasoning of or explanation of what happened okay okay because my other
thought is that is this just the an excuse to get out you know is this just a minor offense that I could commit so
that I can get out of something that I don't really want to [Music] do if you had to guess what she would
let's say uh rate her freshman year what you think she would rate that as like a
one to 10 10 being the best right her experience or how she she did no like her experience
like yeah I don't I mean she made great friends um the track team was very supportive I was there I I think she did
enjoy the school workor it was challenging so I would say like maybe a seven like she wasn't like over overly
thrilled like I was like just want to right walk around in my uniform all day long because I just love
it was kind of I felt like she was kind of over it like it's a lot it's a lot it
wasn't like she went there and had an nine or a 10 freshman year and just it was the best year ever then all of a
sudden this Dark Cloud came over her no no and and then sophomore year was so bad and no I think I think she it it
just solidified what she already knew from the beginning like I I'll tell you this
this one time the the very first summer Cadets have to go through what's called Beast barracks and it's the cadet
version of basic training right but it's like basic training on steroids because
not only are you getting beat up physically but you're also having to memorize all of these things that I
talked about earlier and you're like 17 18 19 years old and you're away from home and it's so stressful and I loved
it Mara did not love it I remember I was also so I was one of the trainers so my
job as a when I was going into my junior year was to train these new Cadets coming in and she was one of them and I
dropped into her room one night just to check on her and I think I brought her I
was bringing her Oreos or or something because you don't get to eat a lot and I just found her just
crying and just totally just unhappy and this is the this is before she even started the academic year right and it
it I didn't that was the first glimpse into seeing that she wasn't happy it's like you said it's tough too when you're
enjoying so many aspects of that life right and I I I kept telling her when I went through that I'm like it's so
awesome like these people will yell at you and you'll they'll tell you to do push-ups and you'll like be the best
because you're in shape and you'll do these push-ups and then they'll yell at you more
and I don't know maybe I'm a s masus but I liked it and so maybe I gave her the wrong impression she did not like it
well no I mean but also just because you're a very good athlete different athletes are motivated
by different things and like you said you you feel like you are motivated uh with your life with structure and and
but she might have been um motivated more by and I don't want to use the word chaos but
disorganization so that is yeah that is true Kaa chaos is the right word for her you're like no no stick with the
chaos word yeah I'm fret my two amazing daughters they're smart they're goodlook
they're they're very athletic and they go to West Point I mean it doesn't get much better than that and
one sophomore year which like you said the the but the stealing I don't even is that what your
family considered the lip gloss we'll call it the lip gloss incident is that what the family
considered it stealing or was it just she just didn't know it was in her pocket I really think she just got
distracted so and that's what she told me right and I believe you know I believed it why else would she I don't
understand why she would try to steal from a place where she knew that there was people watching for that type of
thing and at this point is when she like you said she went to the the trial that
was it's all pretty much conducted like with inhouse and I don't even know do you want to call it a trial well we call
it an honor board so it's I mean I no I don't want to call it a trial it's yeah it's like an honor hearing but this is
where she'll meet her boyfriend Bill Rous yes that is where she met bill so then mama bear has to come out right
and and what do you think of her boyfriend yeah absolutely so bill was Bill was actually two years older or two
classes ahead of Mara and which makes it would make him my classmate at West Point so bill was my classmate and I
didn't know Bill all that well although it's pretty small there's only I think my class is only like 900 people I knew
of him I hung around in the same circles as him um but I didn't know him that well um but then when the honor board
kicked off and he was helping Mara like tremendously helping Mara I thought he was a good guy so your
Spidey senses were telling you that this guy was okay to date your sister yeah and I was a little skeptical because he
was two years older and he was my classmate but I was I mean that was okay I mean in the grand
scheme of things there it was probably I don't know how old bill is now but it's
not that big of an age difference whatsoever right right so no there was nothing that there was nothing
that I outwardly disliked about Bill well I think that it's interesting to me because like
you said I think that's a key thing that maybe the inter internet has missed upon is that she's leaving this school
and I think the number one reason would be that she wouldn't want to sign up for
military duty yeah that's the reason you must not want to sign up for military so
much because you have a lot of things there at that school going for you have you have Athletics that you're excelling
in you're doing well in school I mean yes Less in your sophomore year your sister's there and she's
cool right I don't know well I'm trying to I'm trying to butter you up right now
I don't know if she would call me cool and she's really awesome and uh but then you have your boyfriend there yeah and
so it's kind of a big thing right you go okay well now she's switching schools and that's going to make a lot of things
harder but I don't know my gut feeling is just I had to do it myself and it was tough it was a big deal to switch
schools but what a relief it was once I got to a school that I felt like I belonged so now she gets she starts the
next year on time is that correct well she transferred her she attempted to transfer all her credits from her
classes at West Point but I think that put her behind a semester um at UMass so I think she went into ums at a
half a semester behind where she would have been at West Point the other thing I want to say about that is she she she
switched basically universes she went from West Point chemical engineering military career to
a she got into the nursing program those are polar opposite things yeah but a nursing program is very uh
difficult and timec consuming maybe the the level of math and certain things like that aren't going to be as high but
it's a very timec consuming major yes I definitely agree there and it and it's a
definitely a hard program but the careers are are are are opposite I mean you're going to war or you're going to
go help people I mean let's talk about a couple of situations she gets into there
the credit card fraud so um at UMass I Mara was using a another person's credit card to
purchase um random things like pizza from dominoes and subs and stuff so I don't I didn't really get what all that
was about but other people have told me that that she wasn't the only one doing it and I'm not saying that that makes it
right but I'm saying if if you really start to think about it who is that important
to why is that important that she was doing that yeah but I think by showing these actions or these
questionable states of behavior that it allows people to create a narrative yeah I agree and you've got to
you got to kind of peel it back and look at who are these people focusing on these small little details and what is
their motive why is it like I said why is that important is it important to where Mara
is is it important to why she went to New Hampshire on that Monday night in the grand scheme of things maybe but I
don't think so um but you know it kind of brings me to the point of you've got this cast of characters that are
obsessed with this case and um some of which are using it for for profit uh for some of them need content or some of
them need to pick apart some of the stuff that a 21-year-old girl did in college
to to be relevant and you know we could we could pick apart every little thing that you and I did when we were 21 and
it would probably look a lot worse than what Mara did I mean I don't want to speak for you but I mean I did some
really dumb stuff yeah but you also had a clean room but I did have a clean room
yeah you know so I mean once you have a clean room they PE people trying to write books or people trying to start
podcasts if they see a clean room they just keep moving yeah they go oh nothing to see here yeah exactly um what
I'm trying to do is to get a sense of where you think she was at in her life how she thinks how you think things were
going because I know with siblings I hear about the es and flows and and and sometimes your parents
will tell you oh things aren't going so well so then you reach out and check in with your brother or sister and find out
hey things are not actually that bad or they tell you things are great and then you check in and you go things
aren't that great but to me it seems like things are she's doing a lot better and she's headed in the right direction
yeah and one of the things that that I can say about that is um she was doing really well in the nursing program she
was on the track team she had a a group of girlfriends that she hung out with she kept in touch with her friends from
high school pretty regularly um more than than I ever did um but the other thing is she was uh a an athletic
tutor so she was a tutor for other athletes you don't just become an athletic tutor if you've you're a mess
you know what I mean right so yeah um I don't know what the selection process was or how you got to be a tutor but um
she definitely was one and um must have met some kind of qualification yeah exactly um and she she actually had a an
appointment or a session I don't know what it's called the week that she went missing um that she didn't show up to
obviously because she was missing so I'd be interested in trying to track down who that person was she was supposed to
tutor was that session supposed to be on that Monday I'm not sure the exact day but I
know it was that week yeah cuz that's the other thing that is kind of unclear is she you know so things are going
pretty well I know there's these these phone calls that she gets at work she seems a little upset so one of her
bosses walk her back to her dorm do you know who that call was to or what it was
about or yeah so that call was um with my older sister Kathleen to the best of our knowledge from what we know from
phone records and talking to to everyone um that spoke to her that night um so she had a call with my older sister
Kathleen basically Kathleen had just gotten out of rehab um for um alcoholism and her husband at the time
picked her up from rehab and took her directly to a liquor store and yeah Kathleen was telling
Mara that so my thought is you know that call was earlier in the night I think it was
about 10 10 p.m. is um and Mara was at her security desk job where she would check people's IDs to get into the dorm
room at ums and she hung up the phone with Kathleen um that wait also another job
that they don't give to people that are barely making it by exactly yeah struggling to get through school yeah
yeah and that was one of her jobs she had she had another job so she had two jobs uh so she was she was on the go
like she was doing a lot how mad was how mad was your dad about her having two jobs well I don't even know if my dad
knew to be honest um but I know he knew about one of them but I'm not sure if he
knew she worked at an art gallery as well I'm not sure if he knew about that he probably did because he loves art and
stuff like that but yeah so she gets his call that's pretty upsetting it's a pretty upsetting call um to get from
your sister who you care about and for that to happen um Kathleen was probably upset and disappointed in herself and
felt like a failure and I know Mara was the type of person that would have tried
to be stoic and calm Kathleen down and and you know be that rock for her so right I was just going to say that
sometimes you can be a rock for the person on the phone but when you get off the phone then you you have to um let
out that sadness or that negative energy yourself absolutely and so that's kind of what I think happened I think it
really upset Mara that that phone call with Kathleen and I think she wasn't able
to release any of those emotions with Kathleen in the state that she was and so she probably and she was at her job
um so she didn't have this breakdown until later towards the end of her shift where maybe she couldn't hold it
together any longer and you know like you said you can't hold that in and Mara was was emotional um and so she just had
this breakdown to the point where the student boss I guess you'd call it um came was notified and came to where
where Mara was sitting and basically escorted Mara um back to her room the other thing that people question a lot
is that your dad came to visit her the weekend before she went missing yes um my dad came up from Connecticut
to visit Mara and the purpose of his visit was to buy a new car not a new car a you a new used car from new to her new
to her yep yeah um that's what kind of cars we got too I don't I didn't know what a new car
was yeah uh exactly I was like you mean somebody else's car I believe they went and looked at some
cars uh and possibly called around but there wasn't anything that he was particularly in love with well actually
no that um they did find they they narrowed down they narrowed it down the two two cars
that weekend they they went to several different locations um Mara's uh boyfriend Bill actually bought a car
somewhere at at one of the locations that they looked at himself and so they went there and they R bought a car yep
during this trip no no no no before prior Bill bought bought a car at a previous trip to ums to visit Mara okay
yep so Mar and my dad went to that location to say hey let let me see what your inventory is
what do you have they found one vehicle that was kind of in the right price range I that vehicle was um I want to
say $4,000 I believe then they went to another location this is on that Saturday uh and they found another car
which was a better car I can't remember the brand but I know it was red um but that car was
$6,000 and that's the car that my dad wanted to get from Mara because it was a little
bit it was a better brand or something I'm it might have been a I don't know what kind it was but anyway my dad only
my dad deals in cash um because when you're trying to go deal with used car salesman Cash's King and so he had oh my
God you sound like my father cash is King cash is King yes yes I know Dad I know Dad I mean and my dad's a pretty
skilled negotiator when it comes to dealing with with those old school type of guys that typically work at used cars
places yeah but back in the day car car dealerships were different you and you could also you couldn't just call your
bank and tell them run my card for six grand no there was limits and stuff like that so the fact that he'd be dealing
with cash makes the most sense in the world but a lot of people then have taken this idea that they were going to
go look for a car which like if you had to rate her car at one 1 to 10 what would you rate it it was like a two it
was it was trash it was not good right and so they're going up to get a car but then there's been
all this speculation that your father gave her this money which there's I can't find proof of that that he gave
her the money and then they say that was pregnant and that's why she's been missing all these years cuz she was
pregnant and she was and your dad was helping her run away yeah that's just crazy talk to me
that's someone that needs to needs some content or needs to make this sensationalize this that is not
what happened and um just as some background like my dad deals in cash and not only with C you know dealing with
cars he just he always his cash all the time and I guarantee you when he was looking at those cars he I'm I'm pretty
sure he probably flashed his cash in front of whoever it was to try to get a you know a a better deal in the car um
and listen his his bank was in Connecticut and it's not like it's not like they had Sun Trust
and I don't know Bank of America um yeah so it's not like he could just get a bunch of cash out from anywhere back
then actually I think his his bank account might have been out of east or yeah eastern Mass but whatever it wasn't
it wasn't near UMass um and so he had limits on how much you could withdraw he knew he wanted the cash because to
incentivize the dealer to give him a better better deal the bottom line was he wanted to get Mara the more expensive
car and he didn't have the the other $2,000 so he told her I'm going to come back next weekend and we're going to get
you this car the other reason why time was of the essence for her to get this car was be part of her nursing program
required her to go to clinicals and so she had to travel to all these different hospitals for these clinical rotations
that she had and part of the the process with that was she had to confirm that she had reliable transportation which
she did not um so she she needed this car to go to these clinicals because she was just buming rides from her
classmates you can only miss so many uh clinical these are huge in a nursing program and some places you that you
can't even miss one uh if you miss one you have to do a makeup so to miss one uh could have been a big no no yeah
absolutely and she was doing so well in the program I don't think she wanted to take that risk um and it this is just
speculation on my part but she could have told her professors she needed time off uh and there was a death in the
family so that she could buy some time to get this new car um and not basically lie and say for whatever reason she had
to go and it could have been to take care of her r statement fee in New Hampshire which she knew she had a she
got a speeding ticket in New Hampshire the um couple months prior to her going missing um so it kind of all kind of
comes together into a a theory that that's why she was going up to New Hampshire in the
first place all right so let's okay let's stay on that for a second so and I believe this is like new information
that for 15 years we've wondered why she was there and then what happened and I believe we have the most
plausible reason of what why she was there so your dad comes to visit he's going to buy her
a car they find one but it's not the car that she wanted so now she decides that
she is going to she's going to go to an area that she went on vacation with uh your father and Bill and during that
time she got a speeding ticket yes and so she then didn't pay the speeding ticket no she she did pay
the speeding ticket she actually she was required to appear because she got a 99 the speeding
ticket was 99 miles per hour so it was pretty pretty fast right she had to appear and pay a pretty hefty fine which
she paid the fine for the speeding but they she never paid the reinstatement fee or we don't know whether she's paid
the reinstatement fee right so it looks like they probably suspended her license
for a time period and then they wanted her to pay a reinstatement fee right and then so she didn't pay that fee
so so you believe that on that Monday when she then tells her school and work and everybody look there's a family
emergency and uh I got to take care of this and then I'll be back so the thought is that she was
going to drive up there Monday either pay then stay somewhere and then go back to your father's house well yeah it was
my mother's house at the time but that yeah that's sort of what the the theory is but basically she she got into an
accident that that Saturday night prior um to her going missing on Monday after they her and my dad went car shopping
and so the thought is that's when she learned that she had a suspended license that required her to show up in person
in New Hampshire to pay a reinstatement fee because I'm not sure how else she would have
known that her license was suspended in New Hampshire so yeah although her license wasn't suspended in
Massachusetts you know if the the officer at the accident and Hadley on that Saturday would have run her license
um he may have seen that and just said hey you know you have this issue yeah and the accident on Saturday she just
ran off the road yeah she just flid off the road she just yeah ran off went into
a t she was at a te intersection and just went straight forward and hit the guard rail so then she she is driven
back by by the police officer to your father's Hotel because he's visiting trying to help his daughter get a car
yeah well she she she jumped in the tow the the officer on the scene did not site her for DUI she he let her go um
she didn't get any she didn't get anything and he allowed her to jump in the tow truck and the tow truck took the
car the my dad's Corolla to wherever they take which happens to which happened to be right next to where my
dad's Hotel was and so sheum in and just went to the hotel so okay so have you talked to your dad about this did he did
he think she was intoxicated CU you said she didn't get a DUI or omvi yeah so I mean it's pure
speculation who can say who can say whether she was intoxicated or not right um obviously not for the not enough for
the officer to think that she deserved to be arrested for it yeah and I mean we're talking about you Mass
it's I would say over half the student body is intoxicated on Saturday night um but that I you know I'm not I didn't
that doesn't mean they should be driving though oh absolutely I totally agree with you and even if even if she was
over tired she shouldn't have been driving um right but yeah I totally agree with you but I think the police
officer like I said if if it was a parent she's been heavily drinking he's not going to let her off like that no I
just I don't buy that for one minute so he lets her go back how about you just jump in the tow truck and then go back
to your dad's hotel and another thing about the internet that I mean with this case and I find this just
absolutely uh appalling and disgusting is is some of the stuff that people then have speculated or assumed because Fred
has a hotel and his daughter's going to stay in the hotel with him how has that kind of
speculation you know against your father uh I just don't even want to say the words I don't want to rehash what
they're spec speculating but I mean how how does that affect you I mean it's just sick it it really is because number
one um there was two beds in that room right and it it's really upsetting because obviously whoever is spreading
this does has doesn't know my dad um and to say those things about a father with
a missing child is nothing other than sick and there's there's got to be a motive behind why anyone would say that
and I think it's pretty clear what the motive is for any for whoever is saying that so she ends up talking to your
father your sister ends up talking to your father talking to her boyfriend that night well let me let me just clear
the record on that so when she got back to the hotel room in the tow truck she couldn't get into the his room um so she
actually kind of doz off on the couch in the lobby of that hotel she didn't have
a key to the room and I don't know whether she didn't want to wake my dad or there was maybe a Lobby um door that
you had to have a key to the room to get in I'm not sure the exact circumstances
but my dad didn't know that anything even happened until the next morning um when he woke
up um somehow she I guess when the the um front desk person came I don't know if it was man 24 hours or whatever
somehow she got to access to my dad's room later on in the morning and she used his cell phone to
call Bill and tell Bill what happened and then that's when she told my dad what happened she has a cell phone we
know she has a cell phone but it's possibly dead at that point and then well she left it she left the cell phone
at the dorms right so she didn't have her own cell phone it was so nice back in the day when we could do that just
leave the just leave your cell phone at home you don't need it yeah I think we'd
all freak out right well I mean that's but but here's another point that I think is
interesting for people to hear is there's tons of people that have investigated this case there's tons of
people that have looked at this case and to just talk about the time that she gets in a wreck on Saturday and then she
goes back to the hotel with her father and I have never heard that she actually had to go to the lobby first and sleep
on the couch yep I mean this is the misinformation that gets put out there not for every case but for a lot of
cases there's little and and does that have anything to do with her going missing probably not but it's just to
show that not all details or things that are people are reporting should everybody take as fact I agree and I
think that my kind of rule of thumb with this is to to Fig figure out the motive
behind why people are saying certain things and it's been 16 years and you know I've figured out there there's a
few loud voices surrounding this case um and their motives are pretty U apparent
um and so I don't really let that that type of stuff really get to me and distract me from what is and my motive
which is to find my sister so you're so you're telling me that she's not pregnant and your father's not paying
for her to start a new life yes I can't believe I have to say this um yes that's what I'm saying the
$4,000 was to buy her a new buy her a car that actually ran with all cylinders firing and she so there's I have to
address it I can't believe I do but the rumor about the pregnancy um issue is that her computer
showed searches for pregnancy terms maternity terms and that's because her homework assignment was she was going
through a maternity cycle and so her literal homework was to look up maternity terms Julie that sounds a
little too convenient I mean I mean it's not a good story it's not it's not salacious and it's yeah and and also she
was on birth control and the birth control she had four pills missing out of the her current pack of birth control
right that was found one of the items found in her car so and the other thing too is there's been multiple accounts
that after the first year of her going missing your father's up there every weekend and then it I think then he kind
of goes down to every other weekend and then eventually every three weeks he's going up there but that's yeah that
that's hurt that is really hurtful for me to hear stuff like that because I sat there and I watched my dad for 10 years
I mean we're going on 16 years y but for 10 years that man that poor man drove up
to New Hampshire from whether he was in Connecticut or down at the cape at the time most sometimes and most of the
times all by himself on that Lonely Road and I just can't imag I wish I could have been there on some of those trips
with him I just can't imagine what he's thinking for four hours in his car and then for people to say well he didn't go
up there enough that man could not have gone up there any more than he he did and it it's really hurtful for me to
hear stuff like that every weekend I mean I you have to make a living you have to pay your bills and then every
weekend you're going and that's that is not coming from I did not hear that from
anybody in your family I heard that from uh volunteers people that were helping him and then to continue to do that
every year and continue to do that every weekend when you're finding no new information I mean that I think there's
a level of love in care that you just naturally have for somebody in your family if he didn't have that for your
sister there's it would be impossible to do what he did and the amount of searches and the hours he
searched and the amount of money he spent searching yeah and I mean and like I said before all by himself most of the
time I was was in the army or in you know in my government job and wasn't able to to get up there as much as I
would have liked when he went up there all he hit was roadblocks he just hit roadblock after roadblock and two years
into the case after hitting all these Road Blocks the man who supposedly took $44,000 out to help Mara run away is
pleading for the release of all the records at the New Hampshire Supreme Court pleading to get the FBI involved
now what man who's trying to help his daughter Escape pleads for the FBI and also with the speculation out there that
she was that she ran away to start a new life because your father was sexually abusive or physically abusive for her to
get in a crash on that Saturday and then tell the police officer ah don't take me
to my dorm taking me to my father's hotel that doesn't make a lot of sense to me we're we're we're getting logical
here I I don't know I don't know what the internet can handle that but then the abusive person that is abusing the
person because they don't care about them cares so much that they go search for them by themselves it there's just
no logical sense nor is there evidence and that's the thing that has really drove me nuts about people talking about
your sister people that claim that they're looking for your sister people that claim that they're they they have a
that they're doing this for good uh making accusations and speculations with no evidence and so so that so that
Monday we believe that she was going up with this with the new theory that I believe is based off of actual evidence
that she was going up to that area to pay pay that ticket yeah and I'm not married to any Theory and
I'm not pushing a theory I don't know where Mara is I don't know what happened to
her I'm open to I have to be open to all possibilities and all theories um not wild speculation but
based on what we do know um we can kind of narrow it down a bit um but like I said I'm not I'm not convinced that this
is the theory and I'm going to you know push this narrative um but it's possible
it's possible I just haven't heard that many logical reasons why should be in that area and this to me sounds like an
actual logical reason yeah I I mean I I I definitely agree I I wish I knew I wish I I knew the answer to why she was
there I wish somebody did I wish she would have told somebody like I said like before i' I've said it so many
times it doesn't make it doesn't make sense for her to be there and it wasn't smart and she wasn't supposed to drive
the Saturn and she didn't drive the Saturn when my dad was around because he she
knew that um he'd get her for it and say what this is also this is also why he said hey while I'm at my hotel not using
my car why don't you use my car go go hang out use my car exactly but I will say that I do know that occasionally I
guess when she couldn't find any other person to take her where she needed to go she would jump in the Saturn and
drive it short distances um because right in one of her emails to her um high school friends she referenced
getting stuck in the snow and her stupid Saturn or I don't know what term she used so she jumps in her Saturn she's
going to go we know that she stops at a ATM we that that footage was finally released I think the biggest thing about
them releasing the ATM footage was you not knowing if you've seen the jacket that she was wearing part of part of
that statement I mean when you when I'm on the oxygen show and I'm saying that and I'm I'm looking at the computer
screen that they put in front of me that is the very first time in my entire life
that I had seen that and I was trying to hold it together I was really just trying to say
something um and I don't know what made me say that but it's true I mean I didn't recognize a jacket but I was in
such shock and it it's a hard thing to to it was a hard thing for me to see especially with cameras all over me and
I'm trying to play it cool and be like you know not get super emotional um and so I'm like I don't recognize a jacket
I'm like why did I say that that's not an appropriate thing to say but it was true it's just where my mind went um but
that was that was hard yeah it's also emotional because you have been through so much and your family has been through
so much and then you get to see this picture and that's the last known recording of her yeah and I've stared at
those pictures I've analyzed those pictures I've zoomed in and zoomed out just to kind of like try to read her
expression try to figure out her state of mind because I knew Mara better than anyone and the this unfortunately the
still shots that we were shown are pretty bad quality yeah um I can't tell you how how many times I've stared at
those pictures cuz it it literally is the last time I've out see [Music] her thank you to everybody for joining
us here in the garage today today join us back here again tomorrow for much more on this case until then be good be
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Maura Murray /// Julie Murray Interview /// Part 1

Part 1 of 2

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This week Julie Murray sits down for an interview with the Captain. She gives us some of the truths about her missing sister Maura and some insights from the family. Beer of the Week - Midnight Rider by Piedmont Brewery and Kitchen Garage Grade - 4 and a quarter bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

Julie Murray discusses her sister Mara's mysterious disappearance and the family's ongoing search for answers.

Key points

The Disappearance of Mara Murray. Mara Murray vanished after a car accident in 2004, sparking numerous theories.
Interview with Julie Murray. Julie Murray discusses her sister's disappearance and the family's frantic search.
Mara's Decision to Leave West Point. After her second year, Mara voluntarily left West Point, realizing military life wasn't for her.
The Lip Gloss Incident. Mara's theft of lip gloss raises questions about her state of mind and intentions.
Mara's Transition to Nursing. Mara switched from a military career path to nursing, a significant life change.
Mara's Emotional Breakdown. Mara experiences a breakdown at work, leading to her being escorted back to her room.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This case remains one of the more popular Mysteries of the last 20 years.

Reflection on the enduring intrigue of Mara Murray's case.

6:53WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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