Maura Murray /// Julie Murray Interview /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

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After graduating high school, Maura Murray, who was a good student and dedicated athlete, competing and
excelling in track and field. She attended military school. Reports are conflicting as to why she
left. But whatever the case, she left and enrolled in University of Massachusetts Amherst.
On February 9th, 2004, for reasons that are unknown, Maura Murray, who at the time was 21 years of
age, left school and drove north towards New Hampshire. Sometime between 7:00 and 7:30 p.m., she
was involved in a single car accident on Route 112 in Haverhill. Her father, Fred, believes that the car
stalled when she was going around a turn and went into a snowbank. Maura knew this area fairly well and had
been there several times before. She even called a place that her family had stayed at before.
Possibly to reserve a night or two for her to stay. However, no such arrangements were made.
From what we have been told, her family and schoolmates do not know why she was driving there that evening. She was
supposed to be at school and her car was in no shape to be driving that distance.
A bus driver, who lived across the street from the accident, according to his statement, he spotted her car on the
side of the road and offered assistance. Maura told him that she was fine and that she had already called for roadside
assistance and they were en route. The bus driver called the police. But, by the time authorities arrived,
Maura had vanished. Some believe that she was walking or running east on the road.
Maura vanished sometime after the accident and has not been seen since. Her father believes she may have met
with foul play. Fred noted that she was in the middle of nowhere with no place to go due to her
damaged car. He believes that she accepted a ride from a stranger who then killed her.
Some believe she vanished voluntarily and does not want to be found. Another theory is that Maura wandered
off into the woods and died of exposure. These are just three of many theories in this
case. We featured Maura's case several times on both True Crime Garage and Off the
Record. The strange missing person's case of Maura Murray is one of the more popular
mysteries of the last 20 years. And unfortunately, Maura's case remains unsolved.
We're coming up on the 16th year anniversary of the disappearance of Maura Murray.
True Crime Garage was able to sit down and talk with Julie Murray, Maura's sister.
This interview is a long time in the making. And so we're glad to finally be able to
do that and present it to everybody. And hopefully we're able to create a better understanding of who Maura was as
a person, maybe clear up some misunderstandings or misreporting on some of the events of her
disappearance. All right, Julie, it's good to talk to you. We met at Crime Con. You were very excited to meet me.
As as I was very excited to meet you as well. Uh very intimidated by you because I
haven't been doing my CrossFit. And I don't think you take a day off. Well, I was you know, thanks for having
me on and I was a little intimidated by the line to meet you wrapped around the corner. Um
but I was very glad that I got a chance to meet you and you know, you don't need to do CrossFit every day.
Um we talked about it. You'll get back on the wagon. Yeah, I think the line was to meet Nick.
Um my line was a lot smaller. So, your sister went missing. And has really become
a internet sensation almost. Do you remember the first time or who told you that your sister was
missing? Yeah, I I was at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Uh, in the army. I was a I think I'd just pinned on first
lieutenant. I might have been a second lieutenant. We were actually getting ready to deploy
to to Iraq. And I think the call came in from Kathleen, my older sister, initially. And it was basically frantic
like, "Have you heard from Maura?" And I told her, "No, I hadn't. What's going on?" And she said, "She's missing.
Her car was found somewhere in New Hampshire." It it was kind of very frantic and vague
the first phone call. Um, and then later on, I remember talking to my dad and he was asking the
same set of questions. And of course, I had no idea where she was or what happened.
So, it was extremely stressful for me to be that far away and just sit by the phone and just wait for
some answers. So, that went on for the rest of that night and I was calling everyone and my mom
was frantic. My whole family was frantic. And initially, I said, "Dad, okay, I'm
I've got to get leave through the army so that I can come up and figure out what's going on." And he
said, "Oh, hold up. I'm going to go up there and figure things out." Right. So, that was the initial
notification that I received. Was there communication between the family about why Mara was where she was at? No one
had a clue. Right. No one had a clue. So, that was that was the big thing and that was kind
of what caused us well, obviously that she she was missing. We knew that it was her car. Um but we kept asking, "Well,
why why is she there?" And it was this big mystery from the minute that that I got the phone call. Like it was a Monday
night. It was during school year. There was no reason for her that I knew at the time to be up there. And like you
said, since the beginning, this case has had those two questions. One, why was she there? And then what happened? And I
don't want to put words into anybody's mouth, but to me, it seems like a lot of these theories of why she would be up
there have either gone nowhere or they just seem very far-fetched. Like you have to
leap from A to uh T to get there. Right. That's exactly right. And and that's I think that's
part of the intrigue of the case is that we know so little. We don't know her motive for going up there in the first
place. And then there are there's such little evidence there after once we know that she did go
missing that just can boggle the mind and it has it's boggled my mind for us going on 16
years now. You guys grew up playing sports together. But besides running track, what sports
did you guys actually play together? We played every single sport there is. We played softball. We played soccer. We
played basketball. We played we made up sports. We played handball. We We played We used to watch
American Gladiator. I don't know if you remember that show. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was a pretty
pretty cool show. It was kind of like the the early 2000s version of American Ninja Warrior. Yeah. For those that
don't know. And I love that show. And so we would like try to recreate the feat of strength or an obstacle from that
show and just battle each other. Did you guys ever try to build one of those tennis ball
shooters? Remember Remember the tennis ball shooter they had? Oh, yeah. Those are so cool.
Uh no, but we we didn't try to build one, but we did go to the batting cages quite often actually with my dad and
we always had fun. We would practice together, we'd play together, we were usually on the same teams like growing
up in high school and Cuz the age difference is what? Yeah, so it was 2 and 1/2 years. Yeah, so not that far.
Yeah. Yeah, so pretty competitive with each other. Who was Who was better? Well, it depends on what we were doing.
Mara was a better runner for sure. I like to think I was a better uh soccer player.
A cool little story about Mara with basketball is she was so good at free throw shooting. There was a There was a
basically a qualification for the state where you shoot 10 and the best out of 10 moves forward and it was kind of a um
um a big deal in Massachusetts and she made it all the way to the state finals where she got to shoot free throws at
halftime of the Celtics game. That's awesome. Yeah, pretty awesome. you were pretty jealous of that.
I was really jealous. I was her ball girl. I well, I was thankful that I was able to go and go out on you know, on
the the court for the the pre like before the Celtics even came out for the warm-up. They they they had the kids
come in really early and I was her rebounder. But you know, she wasn't ever going to
let you live that down. Oh, no. If I'm sure if she was here with us right now, she would be telling you, "Oh
yeah, you were my ball girl." So you guys were really close in high school. And then she follows you to college.
Yeah, so I got into West Point and I I went there um two years ahead. She was still in in high school and then when
she was getting ready to choose a college, she she applied to West Point as well, which is not not that easy to
get into and you have to get a congressional nomination and Yeah. You got to go through a whole
bunch of uh tests and you it's not easy to get in. It's It's very prestigious to get in.
Yeah, and so she she got in. Uh she also ran track with with me on the track team,
which was great because at West Point everything's so structured and you don't have any time. So we were able to see
each other multiple times a day, which is you know, very rare um for any other cadets that were
siblings there that weren't on the same sports team. So Well, better for her than you because
you've been there. You I know. But Yeah. paving your own path, but then your little sister gets there. Yeah, and it
was so cool. It was so cool to talk about her when she was still in high school to my
teammates at West Point and then I would always tell them, you know, I hope she comes. She's a awesome runner.
You guys would love her. And then when she was finally there, it was it was really cool. But yeah, so then your your
father, which ever since uh I started looking into your sister's disappearance, there's a bunch of different
uh I don't know assumptions about your dad, right? But, some people think it's strange that he
pushed you guys so hard, or that's their words. But, as a kid that played a lot of sports,
there's been so many times where I've been reading about your father and I just think,
"Why couldn't Fred be my dad?" Cuz to me that just seems um to an athlete or somebody that is
competitive, to have a parent be that invested in you. Uh is that a correct term?
Or or the correct way to look at your dad? Absolutely. And anyone that says that my
dad pushed us or pushed us too hard does not know my dad, because my dad did not
push us. It was us. We pushed ourselves. Um and this that's just the nature of a
distance runner. Distance runners have to push themselves. No one's out there on the lonely road with you at mile,
you know, seven of a 10-mile run. You're by yourself. You push yourself. That's just the mindset that distance runners
have. And so, you know, I used to get upset when people said, you know, categorize my dad as kind of like a
um just mean, authoritarian just guy that was pushing us to the brink. That is so inaccurate. He actually told us to
do less all the time. And both Mara and I wanted to get a job in high school so we could get a little,
you know, spending money. And he's like, "No, you're You don't need a job. Your focus
needs to be on schoolwork and having fun, and running. You don't have time to add a job on top
of that. Right. So, but you still wanted spending money. So, did he give you guys some
run around money? Well, if we asked, but Mara and I we never asked really for anything. Like our the biggest thing we
ever wanted was like crap food, candy, pizza, um or and cool like whatever the cool sweatshirt was,
the champion sweatshirts or whatever, but we didn't even care about that. Like we
just we wanted to take it easy on him cuz we we had a big family, and both my parents
worked, and they worked hard, and we didn't have a lot of money. So, we didn't want to
we weren't needy kids is what I'm trying to say. The time that you got to spend with your father doing that is
invaluable. Yeah, absolutely. Like he and he he gave us the resources that we needed, and the
biggest resource was time, his time. Yeah. Um and we spent hours and hours and hours
on the basketball court trying to perfect our free throw for instance, and clearly Mara did that by making it all
the way to the garden. Or um perfecting our we used to pitch fast pitch softball. We would
spend hours doing that, and we loved it. That's also free. It's free for a family that maybe
doesn't have a lot of money. Exactly. So, your dad had to be super proud of not just one of his girls, but two of
his girls going to West Point. And so, when she started at West Point, what was the
what do you think her energy was like? Well, she knew she knew what to expect going in because I made sure she knew,
and a lot of what you do as a we call it a plebe the first year cadet is just rote memorization and you've got
to memorize all these different things and then you have to recite them. So, I'm like, "Hey, Mara, here's my old
plebe handbook. Start memorizing these things. It'll make your life easier." Right. You know,
she did that um And so, she she excelled. I just don't think her heart was ever really in it once once
she got there. Well, that's hard for people to explain though, too, is you can go to a college that you looked
into and and visited and you did all these things and then all of a sudden you get there
and you just don't feel like you're fitting in. Do you think she had any of that or was
it just she was fitting in or could have fit in, but she just didn't want to or Yeah, I
think it's the latter. I think she could have she she did fit in. Um she the school work was no problem for her.
Obviously, the running she was doing great. Um she was the I think maybe the one or two top recruits coming in as a
freshman. As a sophomore, she was she was beating me um and you know, beating the juniors and seniors on the
team. She was she was doing well. It's the military stuff that I don't think she enjoyed.
Right. Or definitely didn't enjoy as much as I did. Um she was more much more of a free spirit.
Uh I'm more structured and so, I like my routine and my everything in order and she was a little bit less of
of that um militant type. Yeah, clean room, messy room. You seem like the clean room. She seemed like the messy
room type. And so, so she Yes, she was. She was a mess. I know that has been talked about a lot
on the internet. Is there anything that has been misreported about it or any any thing
that you want to talk about as far as the her time at West Point transferring over
to the new school. Uh yeah. I mean, well, let's just talk about the the issues at West Point. So,
some of the issues were the craziest things you could ever imagine. Like, she she was at a summer
training her second year down at um Fort Knox. And she was at what we called a PX, post
exchange, and it's just a place where people that live on the post or are visiting or there for training go, and
you get a discount on whatever it is. It's kind of like a Walmart for the army. Right. Um and so, she's in there,
and she walks out, and the uh military police person stops her and says, "What's in your pocket?" or something,
and she had I think it was four or five dollars worth of lip gloss, maybe, Mhm. just in her pocket at the Fort Knox PX.
So, Maura was not an idiot. I don't know for sure why it was in her pocket, if she just forgot, you know, essentially,
it was um it was a problem because cadets can't lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those
who do. That's our code. That's you know, what we have to vow to when we first enter. Um so,
anyway, she she got caught for that, and then she had to go through a what we call a honor hearing, cadet honor
hearing. It's basically like a trial run by your peers, other cadets. Um and it was stressful for her. I was
part of the the trial as a character witness for her, and I remember going in to say, you know, she I think she just
forgot, or she didn't I to. If she was going to steal something, it would have been something more substantial than $4
lip gloss. Right, but on one hand you can go, well, maybe that's why she didn't think it was so bad. It's $4 It's
lip gloss. I'll just put it in my pocket real quick and just move on. Yeah, well, that would be I I could see
how you could think that, but she also had the money Mhm. to buy it. So, I'm I'm not sure
what the motivation would have been. But what are you thinking in your head? Like
I mean, this is your This is your baby sister. Yeah, I'm like, what are you doing? That's why would you do that? It
doesn't make any sense. As she was kind of going through that whole process, it got to a point where it was just too
overwhelming. Like she was having to miss classes and her her grades were dropping and she was missing practices
and it just wasn't fun anymore and it wasn't um she just decided it wasn't for her.
So, she actually voluntarily left West Point after her second year. And so, after your second year at West Point,
you have to sign a or take an oath to serve in the military. So, a lot of cadets
leave after their second year cuz they they decide at that point, hey, I don't think this military thing is is me. I
don't think I'm cut out for this. Right. Um and I think she realized I think she realized that. So, you What
you're saying is if you stay past your second year, you have to sign up to join the military. Yeah, yo yeah, you're
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Cheers me, matey. Cheers to you, Captain. Yes, I am here in the garage. You hear me? And if you've listened to
our little show before, then you know that all of our old episodes are available on the free Stitcher listening
app. I am saying that because we have covered Maura Murray's case several times before. And if you want to listen
to those, you can look up our coverage of Maura's case. This is in episodes 28 and 29 from May
of 2016, and also in episodes 152 and 153 from October of 2017. Now, where we left off, Captain, you are
kind of getting into one of the biggest questions that that takes place early on
in this case. One of the things out there that people have speculated on many times over. Why would Maura leave
West Point? Or was she kicked out? Did she get run out of there? Did she run out of there? What happened? And really,
truly, this is what I love when we get the opportunity to speak to family members, and to speak to people that are
close to these cases. Usually, you get a pretty simple answer to something that's been widely
speculated. Right. And this is a very simple answer that makes a lot of sense. Okay? You're going to sign up. This is a
hard and fast rule here. You're going to sign up for 5 years of military service.
That sounds scary if your heart is not into it. And it sounds like Maura's heart was not into it. I did want to
comment a quick thought that I had regarding the the theft of the lip gloss. Right.
I don't want to question her sister too much regarding her thoughts and opinions
on it because she was at the trial. What I find interesting there is that she still has questions about it, but
she was at these proceedings. Where we have an opportunity for Maura to defend herself or shine a light on
why was this item stolen from the from the the little store there. I almost wonder if if this is some kind
of not necessarily a cry for help, but almost a I'm not really digging this because of
maybe the military portion of what this education involves. Mhm. Maybe was this a a way out that
wasn't so such a serious offense? You know, I'm not a bad person, but they have such strict rules. If I do
something as small as this, maybe I am shoved out of here or maybe it gives me an out.
Yeah, or it could be just carelessness. I put something in my pocket, didn't realize it was there, walked out. Now
now I'm busted. Why did you steal this stuff? Well, I didn't steal the stuff. I just forgot it was there.
And and no matter how many times you tell somebody that and you go, "Well, here's the items back. I'm
you know, Mhm. I forgot it in my pocket. I've I have forgot stuff in my pocket before.
Uh I just never got caught. But when you know, you get to your car and you're like, "Oh, crap.
Why did I put that thing in my pocket?" I don't know. I just did. So, Well, and the the store, the
establishment, whatever it may be, can't very well just accept Right. the the idea of oh, I put it in my
pocket and forgot because if they just accepted that reasoning, they would have to accept
that 100 times a month and everybody would be putting things in their pocket and just forgetting. So, yeah, it's one
of those sticky situations and I just wonder you know, hearing Julie's thoughts on
it, I almost expected to hear more of an understanding as to why it happened other than I mean cuz really what I'm
left with there is either she intended to steal it and then what was the reasoning behind that? Was it that she
is just plain and simple a thief? Yeah, I think in the next little bit she'll actually
get to Mars reasoning of or explanation of what happened. Okay. Okay, because my other
thought is that is this just the an excuse to get out. You know, is this just a minor offense that I could commit so
that I can get out of something that I don't really want to do. If you had to guess what she would
I'll say rate her freshman year. What do you think she would rate that as? Like a one to 10.
10 being the best, right? Her experience or how she she did? her experience like
Yeah, I don't I mean she made great friends. Um the track team is very supportive. I was
there. I I think she did enjoy the school work. It was challenging. So I would say like maybe a seven like
she wasn't like over overly thrilled like I was like just want to Right. walk around in
my uniform all day long cuz I just love it. Um she was kind of I felt like she was kind
of over it like It's a lot It's a lot. It wasn't like she went there and had a nine or a 10 freshman year and
just it was the best year ever then all the sudden this dark cloud came over her.
No. No. And and then sophomore year was so bad and No, I think I think she it just
solidified what she already knew from the beginning. Like I I'll tell you this this one time the the very first summer
cadets have to go through what's called Beast Barracks and it's the cadet version of basic training. Right.
But it's like basic training on steroids because not only are you getting beat up
physically, but you're also having to memorize all of these things that I talked about earlier and you're like 17,
18, 19 years old and you're away from home and it's so stressful and I loved it.
Mar did not love it. I remember I was also I was one of the trainers. So my job as a when I was going into my junior
year was to train these new cadets coming in and she was one of them and I dropped
into her room one night just to check on her and I think I brought I was bringing her Oreos or or
something cuz you don't get to eat a lot Right. and I just found her just crying.
And just totally just unhappy. And this is the this is before she even started the academic year.
Right. And it it I didn't that was the first glimpse into seeing that she wasn't happy. It's like you said,
it's tough too when you're enjoying so many aspects of that life. Right. And I I told I kept telling her
when I went through that I'm like it's so awesome. Like these people yell at you and you'll they'll tell you to do
push-ups and you'll like be the best cuz you're in the shape and you'll do these
push-ups and then they'll yell at you more. And I don't know. Maybe I'm a sadomasochist
but I liked it and so maybe I gave her the wrong impression. She did not like it.
Well, no. I mean, but also just because you're a very good athlete. Different athletes are motivated by
different things. And like you said, you you feel like you are motivated uh with your life with
structure. And but she might have been um motivated more by and I don't want to use the word chaos,
but disorganization. So, That is Yeah, that is true. Chaos is the right word for her.
You're like, "No, no, stick with the chaos word." Yeah. Uh I'm Fred. My two amazing daughters,
they're smart, they're good-looking, they're they're very athletic, and they go to West Point. I mean, does it
get much better than that? And one sophomore year, which like you said, the the but the
stealing I don't even Is that what your family considered the lip gloss but we'll call it the lip gloss
incident. Is that what the family considered it stealing or was it just she just didn't know it was in her pocket. I
really think she just got distracted. As and so what she told me. Right. believe you know, I believed it.
Why else would she I don't understand why she would try to steal from a place where she knew
that there was people watching for that type of thing. And at this point is when
she like you said, she went to the the trial that was it's all pretty much conducted like with in-house,
and I don't even know do you want to call it a trial? Well, we call it an honor board, so it's I mean, I know I
don't want to call it a trial. It's Yeah, it's like an honor hearing. But this is where she'll meet her boyfriend
Bill Roush. Yes, that is where she met Bill. So then Mama Bear has to come out, right? And
And what do you think of her boyfriend? Yeah, absolutely. So Bill was Bill was actually 2 years older or two classes
ahead of Mara and which makes it would make him my classmate at West Point. So Bill was my classmate and I didn't
know Bill all that well, although it's pretty small. There's only I think my class is only like 900 people.
I knew of him. I hung around in the same circles as him. Um but I didn't know him that well. Um
but then when the honor board kicked off and he was helping Mara, like tremendously helping Mara.
I thought he was a good guy. So your spidey senses were telling you that this guy was okay to date your sister. Yeah,
and I was a little skeptical because he was 2 years older and he was my classmate, but I was
I mean that was okay. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, there it was probably I don't know how old
Bill is now, but it's not that big of an age difference whatsoever. Right, right. So no, there was nothing
that there was nothing that I outwardly disliked about Bill. Well, I think that it
it it's interesting to me cuz like you said, I think that's a key thing that maybe the inner
internet has missed upon is that she's leaving this school and I think the number one reason
would be that she wouldn't want to sign up for military duty. Yeah, that's the reason. You must not
want to sign up for military so much because you have a lot of things there at that school going for you have
you have athletics that you're excelling in. You're doing well in school. I mean,
yes, less in your sophomore year. Your sister's there. And she's cool. Right? I don't know if she Well,
I'm trying to I'm trying to butter you up right now. I don't know if she would call me cool.
And she's really awesome. And uh but then you have your boyfriend there. Yeah. And so it's kind of a big thing,
right? You go, "Okay, well now she's switching schools." And that's going to make a lot of things harder, but
I don't know. I'm my gut feeling is just I had to do it myself. And it was tough. It was a big deal to
switch schools, but what a relief it was once I got to school that I felt like I
belonged. So, now she gets she starts the next year on time. Is that correct? Well, she transferred her she attempted
to transfer all her credits from her classes at West Point, but I think that put her behind a semester
um at UMass. So, I think she went into UMass at a half a semester behind where she would
have been at West Point. The other thing I want to say about that is she she she
switched basically universes. She went from West Point chemical engineering military career to a she got into the
nursing program. Those are polar opposite things. Yeah, but a nursing program is very
uh difficult and time-consuming. Maybe the the level of math and certain things like that aren't going to be as high,
but it's a very time-consuming major. Yes, I definitely agree there and it and it's a definitely a hard program, but
the careers are are are are opposite. I mean, you're you're going to war or you're going to go help people. I mean,
let's talk about a couple of situations she gets into there. The credit card fraud.
So, um at UMass I Mara was using a another person's credit card to purchase um random things like pizza from
Domino's and subs and stuff. Right. So, I don't I didn't really get what all that was about, but other people have
told me that that she wasn't the only one doing it. And I'm not saying that that makes it right,
but I'm saying if if you really start to think about it, who is that important to?
Why is that important that she was doing that? Yeah, but I think by showing these actions or these
questionable states of behavior, that it allows people to create a narrative. Yeah, I agree. And you've got to you've
got to kind of peel it back and look at who are these people focusing on these small little details and what is their
motive? Why is it like I said, why is that important? Is it important to where Mara
is is it important to why she went to New Hampshire on that Monday night? In the grand scheme of things, maybe,
but I don't think so. Um but you know, it kind of brings me to the point of you've got
this cast of characters that are obsessed with this case and um some of which are using it for for
profit uh for some of them need content or some of them need to pick apart some of the stuff that a
21-year-old girl did in college to be relevant. And you know, we could we could pick apart
every little thing that you and I did when we were 21 and it probably look a lot worse than what
Mara did. I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but I mean, I did some really dumb stuff.
Yeah, but you also had a clean room. But I did have a clean room, yeah. You know, so I mean, once you have a
clean room, they people trying to write books or people trying to start podcasts, if they see a
clean room they just keep moving. They go, "Oh, nothing to see here." Yeah, exactly.
Um what I'm trying to do is to get a sense of where you think she was at in her life, how she thinks how you think
things were going because I know with siblings I hear about the ebbs and flows. And and and sometimes your parents will
tell you, "Oh, things aren't going so well." So you then you reach out and check in with your brother or sister and
find out, "Hey, things are not actually that bad." Or they tell you things are great and then you check in and you go,
"Oh, things aren't that great." I but to me it seems like things are she's doing a lot better
and she's headed in the right direction. Yeah, and one of the things that it that
I can say about that is um she was doing really well in the nursing program. She was on the track team. She had a a
group of girlfriends that she hung out with. She kept in touch with her friends from high school pretty regularly. Um
more than than I ever did. Um but the other thing is she was uh a an athletic tutor.
So she was a tutor for other athletes. You don't just become an athletic tutor if you've you're a mess.
You know what I mean? Right. So Yeah. Um I don't know what the selection process
was or how you got to be a tutor, but um she definitely was one and um She must have met some kind of
qualification. Yeah, exactly. Um and she she actually had a an appointment or a session, I don't know what it's
called, the week that she went missing um that she didn't show up to, obviously,
cuz she was missing. Um so I'd be interested in trying to track down who that person was
she was supposed to tutor. Was that session supposed to be on that Monday? I'm not sure the exact day, but I know
it was that week. Yeah, cuz that's the other thing that is kind of unclear is she you know, so things are going pretty
well. I know there's these these phone calls that she gets at work. She seems a little upset. So,
one of her bosses walk her back to her dorm. Do you know who that call was to or what
it was about or Yeah, so that call was um with my older sister Kathleen. To the best of our knowledge from what
we know from phone records and talking to to everyone um that spoke to her that night. Um so she had a call with my
older sister Kathleen. Basically, Kathleen had just gotten out of rehab um for um alcoholism.
And her husband at the time picked her up from rehab and took her directly to a liquor store.
And Kathleen was telling Mara that. So, my thought is you know, that call was earlier in the
night. I think it was about 10 10:00 p.m. ish. Um and Mara was at her security desk job where she would check
people's IDs to get into the dorm room at UMass. And she hung up the phone with Kathleen.
Um That wait, also another job that they don't give to people that are barely making it by. Exactly,
yeah. Struggling to get through school. Yeah. Yeah, and that was one of her jobs. She
had she had another job. So, she had two jobs. Uh So, she was she was on the go. Like, she
was doing a lot. How mad was How mad was your dad about her having two jobs? Well,
I don't even know if my dad knew, to be honest. Um but I know he knew about one of them, but
I'm not sure if he knew she worked in an art gallery as well. I'm not sure if if
he knew about that. He probably did cuz he loves art and stuff like that. But, yeah, so she gets this call. That's
pretty upsetting. It's a pretty upsetting call to get from your sister who you care about and for that to
happen, um Kathleen was probably upset and disappointed in herself and felt like a
failure and I know Mara was the type of person that would have tried to be stoic and calm Kathleen down and and
you know, be that rock for her. Right. I was just going to say that sometimes you can be a rock for the
person on the phone, but when you get off the phone, then you you have to um let out that sadness or that negative
energy yourself. Absolutely. And so, that's kind of what I think happened. I think it really upset Mara that that
phone call with Kathleen and I think she wasn't able to release any of those emotions with
Kathleen in the state that she was. And so, it she probably and she was at her job. Um so,
she didn't have this breakdown until later towards the end of her shift where maybe she couldn't hold it together any
longer and you know, like you said, you can't hold that in and Mara was was emotional um and so she just had this
breakdown to the point where the student boss, I guess you'd call it um came or was notified and came to where
Mara was sitting and basically escorted Mara um back to her room. The other thing that people question a lot is that
your dad came to visit her the weekend before she went missing. Yes. Um my dad came up
from Connecticut to visit Mara and the purpose of his visit was to buy a new car, not a new car, a a new used
car. Right, new to her. New to her, yep. Yeah. Um That's That's what kind of cars
we got, too. All right. I don't I didn't know what a new car was. Yeah. Uh Exactly.
like, you mean somebody else's car? I believe they went and looked at some cars.
Uh and possibly called around, but there wasn't anything that he was particularly
in love with. Well, actually no, that um they did find They They narrowed down They narrowed it down to two two cars
Mhm. that weekend. They They went to several different locations. Um Mara's uh boyfriend Bill actually bought a car
somewhere at at one of the locations that they looked at himself. And so they went there and they
Bill Bill Rausch bought a car Yep. during this trip. No, no, no, no, before, prior.
Bill bought bought a car at a previous trip to UMass to visit Mara. Okay. Yep. So, Mara and my dad went to that
location to say, "Hey, do you Let me Let me see what your inventory is, what do you have?"
They found one vehicle that was kind of in the right price range. I think that vehicle was
um I want to say $4,000 I believe. Then they went to another location. This is on that Saturday.
Uh and they found another car which was a better car. I can't remember the brand, but I know it was red. Um
but that car was $6,000. And that's the car that my dad wanted to get for her tomorrow because it was a
little bit it was a better brand or something. I'm It might have been a I don't know what kind it was.
But anyway, my dad only my dad deals in cash um because when you're trying to go
deal with used car salesman, cash is king. And so he had to you sound like my father. Cash is king.
Cash is king. Yes. Yes, I know dad. I know dad. I mean and my dad's a pretty skilled negotiator
when it comes to dealing with those old school type of guys that typically work at uh used cars places.
Yeah, but back in the day car car dealerships were different you and you could also you couldn't just call your
bank and tell them run my card for six grand. No. There was limits and stuff like that. So
the fact that he'd be dealing with cash makes the most sense in the world. But a lot of people then have taken this
idea that they were going to go look for a car which like if you had to rate her car
at one one to 10, what would you rate it? It was like a two. It was it was trash.
It was not good. Right. And so they're going up to get a car, but then there's been all this speculation that
your father gave her this money which there's I can't find proof of that that he gave her the money. And then
they say that she was pregnant. And that's why she's been missing all these years cuz she was pregnant and she
was and your dad was helping her run away. Yeah, that's just crazy talk to me. That's someone that needs to
needs some content or needs to make this sensationalize this. That is not what happened and um just as some background
like my dad deals in cash and not only with card, you know, dealing with cars. He just He always has cash all the time
and I guarantee you when he was looking at those cars, he I'm I'm pretty sure he
probably flashed his cash in front of whoever it was to try to get a, you know, a
a better deal on the car. Um and listen, his his bank was in Connecticut. And it's not like
it's not like they had SunTrust and I don't know, Bank of America. Um Yeah, so it's not like she could just get
a bunch of cash out from anywhere. Back then actually, I think his his bank account
might have been out of East or yeah, Eastern Mass. But whatever, it wasn't it wasn't near
UMass. Um and so he had limits on how much he could withdraw. He knew he wanted the cash because to incentivize
the dealer to give him a better better deal. The bottom line was he wanted to get
Mara the more expensive car and he didn't have the the other $2,000. So, he told her, "I'm going to come back next
weekend and we're going to get you this car." The other reason why time was of the essence for her to get this car was
bec- part of her nursing program required her to go to clinicals. And so she had to travel to all these different
hospitals for these clinical rotations that she had. And part of the the process with that was she had to confirm
that she had reliable transportation, which she did not. Um so she she needed this car to go to these clinicals cuz
she was just bumming rides from her classmates. You can only miss so many uh clinicals. These are huge in a nursing
program and some places you that you can't even miss one. Uh if you miss one, you have to do a
makeup. So to miss one uh could have been a big no-no. Yeah, absolutely. And she was
doing so well in the program. I don't think she wanted to take that risk. Um and it this is just speculation on my
part, but she could have told her professors she needed time off uh and there was a death in the family. So that
she could buy some time to get this new car um and not basically lie and say for whatever reason
she had to go and it could have been to take care of her reinstatement fee in New Hampshire, which she knew she had a
she got a speeding ticket in New Hampshire the um couple months prior to her going missing.
Um so it kind of all kind of comes together into a a theory that that's why she was going
up to New Hampshire in the first place. All right, so let's all right, let's stay on that for a second. So
and I believe this is like new information that that for 15 years we've wondered
why she was there and then what happened. And I believe we have the most plausible reason
of what why she was there. So your dad comes to visit. He's going to buy her a car. They find one, but
it's not the car that she wanted. So now she decides that she he going to she's going to go
to an area that she went on vacation with your father and Bill. And during that time she got a speeding
ticket. Yes. And so she then didn't pay the speeding ticket. No, she she did pay the speeding ticket.
She actually she was required to appear because she got a 99 the speeding ticket
was 99 miles per hour so it was pretty pretty fast. Right. She had to appear and pay a
pretty hefty fine which she paid the fine for the speeding but they she never paid the reinstatement fee or
we don't know whether she's paid the reinstatement fee. Right. So the it looks like they probably suspended her
license for a time period and then they wanted her to pay a reinstatement fee. Right.
And then so she didn't pay that fee. So so you believe that on that Monday when she then tells
her school and work and everybody look there's a family emergency and I got to take care of this and then I'll
be back. So the thought is that she was going to drive up there Monday either pay
then stay somewhere and then go back to your father's house? Well, yeah it was my mother's house at the time but that
yeah that's sort of what the the theory is but basically she she got into an accident that that
Saturday night prior to her going missing on Monday after they her and my dad went car shopping
and so the thought is that's when she learned that she had a suspended license that required her to
show up in person in New Hampshire to pay a reinstatement fee. Because I'm not sure how else she would
have known that her license was suspended in New Hampshire. So, although her license wasn't
suspended in Massachusetts, you know, if the the officer at the accident in Hadley on that Saturday
would have run her license, um he may have seen that. And just said, "Hey, do you know you have this issue?"
Yeah, and the accident on Saturday, she just ran off the road? Yeah, she just Flipped off the road?
She just Yeah, ran off went into a She was at a T intersection and just went straight forward and hit the guardrail.
So, then she she is driven back by the police officer to your father's hotel because he's visiting
trying to help his daughter get a car. Yeah, well, she she she jumped in the tow The The officer on the scene did not
cite her for DUI. She He let her go. Um she didn't get any She didn't get anything and he allowed
her to jump in the tow truck and the tow truck took the car, the my dad's Corolla
to wherever they take it, which happens to which happened to be right next to where my dad's hotel was. And so, she
jumped in and just Right. went to the hotel. So, okay. So, have you talked to your dad about this?
Did he Did he think she was intoxicated? Cuz you said she didn't get a DUI or OMVUI?
Yeah, so I mean, it's pure speculation. Who can say Who can say whether she was intoxicated or not. Right.
Obviously a not for the not enough for the officer to think that she deserved to be arrested for it.
Yeah, and I mean, we're talking about UMass. It's I would say over half the student body
is intoxicated on Saturday night. Um Um Mhm. But that I you know, I'm not I think
That doesn't mean they should be driving though, do you? Oh, absolutely. I totally agree with you. And even if even
if she was overtired, she shouldn't have been driving. Um Right. But yeah, I totally agree with you.
But I think the police officer, like I said, if if it was apparent she's been heavily
drinking, he's not going to let her off like that. No. I just I don't buy that for 1 minute. So he lets her go
back. How about you just jump in the tow truck and then go back to your dad's hotel. And another thing about the
internet that I mean with this case and I find this just absolutely appalling and disgusting is
is some of the stuff that people then have speculated or assumed because Fred has a hotel and his daughter's
going to stay in the hotel with him. How has that kind of speculation you know, against your father uh
I just don't even want to say the words. I don't want to rehash what they're speculating, but I
mean, how how does that affect you? I mean, it's just sick. It it really is because
number one, um there was two beds in that room. Right. And it it's really upsetting
because obviously whoever's spreading this does has doesn't know my dad. Um And to say those things about a father
with a missing child is nothing other than sick. And there's there's got to be a motive
behind why anyone would say that. And I think it's pretty clear what the motive is for any
for whoever's saying that. So she ends up talking to your father. Your sister ends up talking to your father.
Talking to her boyfriend that night. Well, let me let me just clear the record on that. So, when she got back to
the hotel room in the tow truck, she couldn't get into the his room. Um so, she actually
kind of dozed off on the couch in the lobby of that hotel. Right. She didn't have a key to the room
and I don't know whether she didn't want to wake my dad or there was maybe a lobby
um door that you had to have a key to the room to get in. I'm not sure of the exact circumstances, but my dad didn't
know that anything even happened until the next morning um when he woke up. Um somehow she I guess when the the um
front desk person came, I don't know if it was manned 24 hours or whatever, somehow she got to access to my dad's
room later on in the morning and she used his cell phone to call Bill and tell Bill what happened and then
that's when she told my dad what happened. She has a cell phone. We know she has a
cell phone, but it's possibly dead at that point and then Well, she left it she left the cell phone at the dorms.
Right. So, she didn't have her own cell phone. It was so nice back in the day when we
could do that. Just leave the Just leave your cell phone at home. You don't need it. Yeah, I think we'd all
freak out, right? Well, I mean that's but but here's another point that I think it's
interesting for people to hear is there's tons of people that have investigated that this case. There's tons of people
that have looked at this case and to just talk about the time that she gets in a wreck on Saturday and then she goes
back to the hotel with her father and I have never heard that she actually had to go to the lobby first and sleep
on the couch. Yep. I mean, this is the misinformation that gets put out there. Not for every case, but for a lot of
cases, there's little and and does that have anything to do with her going missing? Probably not,
but it's just to show that not all details or things that are people are reporting should everybody take as fact.
I agree and I think that my kind of rule of thumb with this is to to fig- figure out the motive behind why
people are saying certain things. And it's been 16 years and you know, I've figured out there there's a few
loud voices surrounding this case um and their motives are pretty uh apparent. Um and so I don't really let
that that type of stuff really get to me and distract me from what my opinion is and my motive, which
is to find my sister. So you're So you're telling me that not pregnant and your father's not
paying for her to start a new life. Yes. I can't believe I have to say this. Um yes, that's what I'm saying. The $4,000
was to buy her a new buy her a car that actually ran with all cylinders firing. And
she So there's I I have to address it. I can't believe I do. But the rumor about
the pregnancy um issue is that her computer showed searches for pregnancy terms, maternity
terms. And that's because her homework assignment was she was going through a maternity cycle. And so her
literal homework was to look up maternity terms. Julie, that sounds a little too convenient.
I mean I mean it's not a good story. It's not It's not salacious and it's Yeah, and I And also she was on birth
control and the birth control she had four pills missing out of the her current pack of birth control. Right,
that was found one of the items found in her car. So, and the other thing too is there's been
multiple accounts that after the first year of her going missing your father's up there every
weekend and then it I think then he kind of goes down to every other weekend and then eventually
every 3 weeks he's going up there. But, that's Yeah, that that's hurtful. That is
really hurtful for me to hear stuff like that because I sat there and I watched my dad for 10 years.
I mean, we're going on 16 years y'all, but for 10 years that man that poor man drove up to New Hampshire from whether
he was in Connecticut or down at the Cape at the time. Most sometimes and most of the times all by himself on that
lonely road. And I just can't imagine I wish I could have been there on some of those trips with him. I just can't
imagine what he's thinking for 4 hours in his car. And then for people to say, "Well, he
didn't go up there enough." That man could not have gone up there any more than he he did.
And it it's really hurtful for me to hear stuff like that. Every weekend. I mean,
you have to make a living you have to pay your bills and then every weekend you're going and that's that is not
coming from I did not hear that from anybody in your family. I heard that from volunteers, people that were helping
him. And then to continue to do that every year and continued to do that every weekend when you're finding no new
information. I mean, that I think there's a level of love and care that you just naturally have for
somebody in your family. If he didn't have that for your sister, there's it would be impossible
to do what he did in the amount of searches and the hours he searched and the amount of money he spent searching.
Yeah, and I mean and like I said before, all by himself most of the time. I was in the army or in you know, in my
government job and wasn't able to to get up there as much as I would have liked.
When he went up there, all he hit was roadblocks. He just hit roadblock after roadblock.
And two years into the case after hitting all these roadblocks, the man who supposedly took $4,000 out
to help Maura run away is pleading for the release of all the records at the New Hampshire Supreme Court,
pleading to get the FBI involved. Now, what man who's trying to help his daughter escape
pleads for the FBI? And also with the speculation out there that she was that she ran away to start a new life
because your father was sexually abusive or physically abusive for her to get in a crash on that
Saturday and then tell the police officer, "Oh, don't take me to my dorm. Take me to my father's hotel." That
doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We're we're we're getting logical here. I don't know I don't know
I don't know if the internet can handle that. But then the abusive person that is abusing the person because they don't
care about them cares so much that they go search for them by themselves. It There's just no
logical sense nor is there evidence. And that's the thing that has really drove me nuts about people talking about your
sister. People that claim that they're looking for your sister. People that are claiming that they're they're
they have a that they're doing this for good uh making accusations and speculations
with no evidence. And so So that So that Monday we believe that she was going up
with this with the new theory that I believe is based off of actual evidence that she was going up
to that area to pay pay that ticket. Yeah, and I'm not married to any theory and I'm
not pushing a theory. I don't know where Maura is. I don't know what happened to her.
I'm open to I have to be open to all possibilities and all theories. Um not wild speculation, but based on
what we do know, um we can kind of narrow it down a bit. Um but like I said, I'm not I'm not convinced that
this is the theory and I'm going to you know, push this narrative. Um but it's possible. It's possible. I just
haven't heard that many logical reasons why she should be in that area. And this to me sounds like a actual
logical reason. Yeah, I I mean I I I definitely agree. I I wish I knew. I wish I I knew the answer to why she was
there. I wish somebody did. I wish she would have told somebody. Like I said, like
before I've I've said it so many times that it doesn't make it doesn't make sense
for her to be there and it wasn't smart and she wasn't supposed to drive the Saturn.
And she didn't drive the Saturn when my dad was around because he she knew that um
he'd get her for it and say what are you doing? This is also why he said, "Hey, while
I'm at my hotel, not using my car, why don't you use my car? Go go hang out. Use my car."
Exactly. But I will say that I do know that occasionally, I guess when she couldn't
find any other person to take her where she needed to go, she would jump in the Saturn and drive it short distances um
because Right. in one of her emails to her um, high school friends, she referenced
getting stuck in the snow in her stupid Saturn or I don't know what term she used. So, she jumps in her Saturn, she's
going to go. We know that she stops at a ATM. We that footage was finally released. I think the biggest thing
about them releasing that ATM footage was you not knowing if you've seen the jacket that she was wearing. Part of
part of that statement, I mean, when you when I'm on the Oxygen show and I'm saying that and I'm I'm looking at the
computer screen that they put in front of me, that is the very first time in my entire life that I had seen that. And
I was trying to hold it together. I was really just trying to say something. Um and I don't know what made me say that,
but it's true. I mean, I didn't recognize the jacket, but I was in such shock and it it's a hard thing to to it
was a hard thing for me to see. Especially with cameras all over me and I'm trying to play it cool and be like,
you know, not get super emotional. Um, and so I'm like, I don't recognize the jacket. I'm
like, why did I say that? That's not appropriate thing to say, but it was true. It's just where my mind went.
Um, but that was that was hard. Yeah. emotional because you have been through so much and your
family has been through so much. And then you guys see this picture and that's the last
known recording of her. Yeah, and I've stared at those pictures, I've analyzed those pictures, I've zoomed in and
zoomed out just to kind of like try to read her expression, try to figure out her state of mind because I
knew Maura better than anyone. And the the unfortunately the still shots that we were shown are pretty bad
quality. Yeah. Um I can't tell you how how many times I've stared at those pictures cuz it it
literally is the last time I've see her. Sometimes when I say I love you, it feels like a habit, you know? But when I
say I love you in a Hallmark card, it feels different. It's like a I love you that you can hold on to. Valentine's Day
is Friday, February 14th. Visit hallmark.com/garage to find Valentine's Day cards for
everyone you care about and use promo code garage to get 20% off your card purchase. That's hallmark.com/garage.
Thank you to everybody for joining us here in the garage today. Join us back here again tomorrow for much more on
this case. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.

Source: https://www.podbean.com/eau/pb-csgw9-d175de

Maura Murray /// Julie Murray Interview /// Part 1 Part 1 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com This week Julie Murray sits down for an interview with the Captain. She gives us some of the truths about her missing sister Maura and some insights from the family. Beer of the Week - Midnight Rider by Piedmont Brewery and Kitchen Garage Grade - 4 and a quarter bottle caps out of 5 Thank you to all of this week’s wonderful sponsors! www.LightStream.com/TCG - apply now to get a special interest rate discount on your credit card consolidation loan! www.Hallmark.com/Garage - to find Valentine’s Day cards for everyone you care about! - use code GARAGE to get 20% OFF! www.Grove.com/Garage - get a FREE five piece set, plus FREE shipping and a FREE 60-day VIP trial!

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Brief Summary

Julie Murray discusses her sister Maura's mysterious disappearance after a car accident in 2004 and the family's ongoing search for answers.

Key points

The Disappearance of Maura Murray. Maura Murray vanished after a car accident in New Hampshire in 2004, leading to numerous theories about her fate.
Theories Surrounding Maura's Case. Various theories exist about Maura's disappearance, including foul play and voluntary vanishing.
Interview with Julie Murray. Julie Murray, Maura's sister, shares her memories and insights about Maura's life and disappearance.
Leaving West Point. Maura voluntarily left West Point after her second year, realizing it wasn't for her.
The Lip Gloss Incident. Questions arise about Maura's theft of lip gloss and its implications.
Switching Schools. Maura transferred from West Point to UMass, pursuing a nursing program instead.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

We knew so little. We don't know her motive for going up there.

Julie discusses the intrigue of Maura's disappearance.

10:41WatchJan 29, 2020

Tension

70/ 100High tension

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