Las Cruces Bowling Alley Massacre /// Part 2 /// 410 | Forensic Files

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[Music] Captain we went through the case and much of the details of the case and
covered it pretty well yesterday what I want to get to today is we have several things way to give yourself a bat on the
back oh you're welcome you know you're welcome world we really did a great job well there are several things that I
want to get through today and get your opinion on and kind of dissect them a little bit because there are a lot of
question marks in this case in this still unsolved case when we went through the details one thing that we were
talking about is how fast the gunmen moved and all the actions that they took to get in there get whatever they were
looking for or presumably get the cash that they were seeking out flee the area after afterward one thing I've often
wondered about this case were the gunmen waiting for 9:00 a.m. to make their way
into the bowling alley we know that we have employees inside of the bowling alley and they're active and they're
working at 8:00 a.m. but the bowling alley was not scheduled to open until 900 a.m. I wonder with the short amount
of time and given how close we were to 9:00 a.m. were the gunmen outside waiting for that 9:00 hour to hit
and as soon as those doors were to be unlocked make their way inside No I say I say nay I say these individuals knew
what time the employees arrived and this crime happening in 1990 I would guess if this happened
today what you could do simply is go back through your surveillance footage for the last couple weeks because I
believe these individuals would have been there would have been around that area would have been casing this bowling
alley for quite some time to have this information yeah I think a couple of possibilities could be likely here and
of course we there's no way to know for sure until we bust these guys until these guys are apprehended we may not
know why they did what they did or exactly how they planned what they did but what I think we see here is what we
talked about yesterday it appears that they already decided on the plan because they're moving very fast Through the
Motions to get back out and to flee the area the thing that I think that we we might be looking at some possibilities
you know often when these businesses are hit a lot of times you want to hit them
when they're closed because you don't want to have the added risk factor of additional people being inside the
building customers so often what these offenders will do is they will hang around outside of a place and they will
wait for things that will cause the doors to be open or unlocked you know deliveries or employees coming and going
from the building to a car often what an offender or robber will do is wait for someone simply to take out the trash
jump them stick a gun in their side out in the parking lot and walk back into the establishment with them take the
money that they're looking for and then flee the area right I think we could have one of two things either yes maybe
they were waiting for 9:00 a.m. seems like they arrived a little early to just be standing around a place that you are
going to eventually Rob right but if they were standing there waiting around to rob the joint maybe they saw Steve
CAC enter and then exit the building both times without having to use a key or locking the door behind him right and
thought you know what as soon as this dude pulls away we're going to walk in to the place and take it over or maybe
it was as simple as they were going to walk up and knock on the door and if the person opened up shove a gun in their
face and work their way in to me if it if it were me trying to pull this thing off I would want to avoid that 9 a.m.
when there could be additional people coming in in and out of the building with the customers and the doors being
open and the business being in operation at that time well maybe not so much if it was a Monday or Tuesday but this is a
Saturday this is going to be a lot busier of a day for the bowling alley that's why I think the level of
sophistication of these criminals is very high I would I'd even look into somebody that had some military
background I'd also like to know if there was a set schedule of who open cuz we know that the daughter opened up so
I'm assuming some days the daughter open up and some days the father would open up or possibly her brother which again
if you're two men with a gun it's less likely of a risk that somebody's going to fight back if they're female mhm
right or if they did fight back you have a better chance of controlling the situation so did these perpetrators know
that there was a schedule there was a system and and that's again that would be little things that I think you could
find out if they had the surveillance footage of this buling alley right and just to throw a little tidbit of
information in there on what you were talking about one thing that's interesting is the
owner he Ronald cak at the time he was living in the bowling alley but he was not there that weekend he was in I
believe he was in Era Iona on a golf trip that weekend well and think about this there there possibly are people
that could connect these individuals to the owner or to the bowling alley or to other people that
they knew but but they're dead so we we don't have that evidence again that would be more motive of why did they
they didn't have to kill these individuals MH but if you were connected to the owner or you're connected to the
bowling alley if these people could identify you any way shape or form then that that's motive to get rid of all of
them right and then speaking to that you know you have two suspects according to
the survivors and what we know about the case and eyewitnesses and such these suspects did not wear mask or gloves
right when I look at this case I go why wouldn't you just put on a freaking mask
and some gloves and go in there Rob The Joint make off with whatever money you can and not hurt anybody yeah but which
eyewitnesses are saying that they didn't wear gloves the survivors in the bowling
alley that were robbed and shot by these two guys mhm and we also have Steve CAC outside
who says you know I didn't they weren't in mask or gloves when he saw them either well no I buy the fact that
they're not again in mask cuz again maybe you know that these eyewitnesses are going to be able to identify you
whether you're wearing a mask or not MH the glove part doesn't make a lot of sense to me you'd think how militant
they were that they would wear some protections because that's a identifying factor is your fingerprint well that
also leads us back to a big question that we've been circling around for a portion of yesterday is could this have
been some type of of inside job okay if these guys either one of them had worked
at this place before they would have been busted by now so nobody's speculating that you know because that's
typically what you get with some of these robberies where it's a former employee and they know the daily
routines and operations of that business right here what I mean is did we have somebody feeding them some kind of
information because it does seem like you pointed out that the two gunmen knew some stuff about the Saturday
operations of the bowling alley right it appears to me judging by what the set of
events that we have during the commission of that robbery and the murders it appears to me based off what
the survivors are saying and how things went down that these guys knew the general location of the employees well
let me run something by you that kind of stuck out to me but maybe I'm crazy well we know I'm crazy but so we
have a situation where we have the employees at the bowling alley they're all female until the brother shows up
mhm so the brother shows up but then he leaves mhm I wonder if these individuals
knew that all the all these women are going to come in to start the day and that we have a technician that's going
to come in and he's male so once they see that this male entered the building now all the people that are
going to be there before it opens are now in the building mhm so then they get out to start approaching the building
and he comes walking out they go well now now this is a lot easier because we knew that the technician coming in was
male so there I'm guessing that these uh perpetrators believe that that was the technician but now he's leaving okay
well that's easier for us let's walk in mhm why they didn't lock the door behind
them I don't know but again I'm assuming that they believe that everybody was now
in the building but they just saw that guy leave and drive off and then that's why they would have been surprised by
the technician showing up yeah that's a good question why wouldn't they have just flip the
lock themselves but they but that's my belief is they they believe that uh the brother was the the the technician and
he already left so we don't have to worry about him now well my other guess though too would be that you need a key
regardless on what side of the door that you're on to lock the door because you don't want some jackass kid going out
there and locking your door in the middle of business so um or some non jackass kid for that matter yeah he was
just trying to be safe you're call you're calling name I'm sorry po poor child poor jackass kid but so the thing
that really kind of upset me here was the the location of the employees right how quickly they move inside the gunman
and then very quickly one of them knows to go into the kitchen immediately like they knew before they got in the
building to expect an employee to be inside that kitchen working right and that's very troubling to me and and
where I took that a step further and just really speculating and being suspicious of everyone was I was like
[ __ ] man this Steve cak he provides a description of this really kind of weird
story right he Des he describes the two gunmen or the people he believes could be the gunman mhm and then we never find
these guys so I wondered for a while like was he somehow involved if this was an inside job did he pull up in the
parking lot that day to one make sure that the guys that were hired by whomever were there and then he's like
oh maybe he found the door locked went in grabbed his book bag and purposely left it unlocked on his way out then the
he pulls off the gunmen make their way in I was very highly suspicious of the cak family and Steve cak and the owner
Ronald scac was he did he just happen to be out of town on the weekend that the right Mur place or was conviently out of
town yeah then we have the issue of Ida okay she was the one working in the kitchen she gives a description that is
very similar to what Steve gave and she survived the attack from the inside and was shot several times I don't think
that it's convenient I don't think that Steve put himself there to unlock the door for these gunmen I think that that
whole horrible weird coincidence of the door being unlocked was just just one of
those weird freak things that took place and these gunmen were going to do whatever they set out to do anyway
regardless of the the state of the lock on that door yeah well CU if he would have just went out to his car again and
just put his book bag back in his car and went back in these these murderers they're coming in no matter
what whether Steve's there or not mhm again I think they knew how many people were supposed to be there and whether
they're whether or not they're supposed to be male or female well the thing too is let's say they did have some prior
knowledge because if if they did have prior knowledge they could have been working
under the assumption that there was only going to be two employees there right we
would have the manager the day manager would be there regardless their duty is to open up the bowling alley for the day
m mhm it sounds to me like some form of kitchen employee or kitchen staff member
is going to be there on a busy Saturday prepping regardless if it's Ida a woman a man whomever so now we got two people
inside the building before 9ine I think where it gets a little iffy if you did have some Intel about what would be
going on that Saturday morning is Ron cak the owner being gone out of town that might be unforeseeable to whomever
provided that information also we have the two girls who were with Stephanie cak in the
office that morning I would bet you there's a good chance that these guys may not have anticipated one or both of
those girls being there now we do know that they were there to work that day they were going to run the daycare
center at the bowling alley that day we could also presume that if they expected
to be out before the mechanic arrived his his shift may not have started till 9: maybe he shows up early that day I
don't know but but the other thing is we they wouldn't anticipate him showing up
with two daughters with him they're not scheduled to work obviously they're little kids right so they might have
been surprised by how many people were at the bowling alley I think that they were I mean this is seven victims here
no no I think they were surprised by the technician but again the the other thing
that hurts us in this case is it's 1990 it's a bowling alley most of the transactions at that time would have
been cash cash money you know I used to go bowling all the time couple times a week and it was cash right and most
people would use cash in 1990 these these individuals they I believe wholeheartedly they knew all the ins and
outs they knew this was going to take them 10 to 15 minutes and we just have to be very um a matter of fact about it
and I think they were surprised by the technician and the fact that he brought his two daughters because because they
knew that there was a technician I just believe they they thought Steve was the technician these individuals probably
went bowling the Saturday the before so they would have known also that there was a daycare open but were they
expecting for there to be two children with the technician I think they were surprised by that yeah and that but see
that's the terrifying thing to me is that I don't feel like I can't look at anything in this case and go okay that's
the thing that set these guys off and then they decided to shoot all these people oh that was Prett meditated right
it's like they went in there going no matter what happens we're shooting them yeah you know like we we covered the
Lane Bryant case and you can point to oh the the perpetrator of that caught somebody on on the phone with 911 we
don't know for certain if that shooter would have shot them or not but what we do know is there was a 911 call that
took place and then the shooting started right we have no situation like that in
this case and we also don't have any eyewitnesses or any survivors saying that there was any discussion between
these these guys there's no all two guys huddled in the corner going now what do
we do there's seven people and that's what I'm saying this is this is a level of sophistication
these these guys aren't dummies that's also another reason why the case is not solved these guys aren't dummies they
knew like I said it's step by step by step right and it didn't matter that now you have
again I think um less level of sophistication less like again military MH somebody that has killed before once
those children are involved that's a whole another level but as as far as sick and
and twisted and level a piece of [ __ ] that you have to be so that's another level but they didn't hesitate oh now
there's children here get in the office by the way we're shooting you all and we're setting the goddamn place on fire
and they're setting the office on fire not the whole building they're we're we're our the purpose of the fire is to
get rid of the evidence and the ey Witnesses yeah yeah to get get rid of the evidence of the men being in that
office and to to confuse and convolute the whole me already me messy situation and the thing that drives me nuts is
this seems so familiar on so many levels to like the yogurt shop murders again a situation where we have
all female workers we're going to we're going to get into that bit of it here in
a minute and I'm glad that you brought that up but one thing I want to make sure that I point out before we move on
too far and I forget about it is Ida one of our survivors the the lady working in
the kitchen that morning she says and there are a couple other people too and I couldn't find people by name you know
reference by name having said this but what I found was Ida and others have said this that they think that they have
seen these two men in the bowling alley before and that weren't their bowling they weren't there shooting pool they
weren't really interacting with anybody they were just kind of sitting there looking around now that would explain
some of the things because you don't have to have Insider information from somebody that works there owns the place
or previously worked there to get an idea of the daily operations right you can you can go in there and you can sit
around and you can go you know what all right I see employees coming in and out of this room over here at this location
that must be like some kind of office or something oh and over there by the bar or by the tables I see employees coming
in and out of that room that must be a kitchen oh we got this huge bowling alley 32 lanes and that's really where I
see the majority of the workers congregating right those are our two places to be concerned with once we come
in here when there's no customers right and it's just like the guitar store I used to work at like we opened up every
day at 10: MH so all you have to do is show up a couple times when we open but chances are you would have seen if you
got there 10 minutes early the lights didn't even turn on till 5 minutes before we open mhm meaning these
employees haven't been there for the last hour sitting in the dark so if you're going to rob a place like that
you you wait till it opens at 10:00 and you also know that there's not a bunch of customers at 10:00 especially like on
Monday or Tuesday but in this case they're they 45 minutes roughly 45 minutes to 30 minutes
earlier than the doors were supposed to open so I mean this is this is again maybe it's not that they're getting
their uh Intel from Insider Scoops but it's them casing The Joint right and you know what you could case The Joint to
figure out where the employees are are spending most of their time to to have areas to focus on once you enter the
building you don't have to even go in on a Friday night to know that they're busy
you can drive by the parking lot and see how many cars are in the thing to know that hey they're busy they make a lot of
money on Friday nights now the difficult thing here is to know that the money that the cash from the night before is
going to be in the building the morning after that's the difficult thing because
not every business business operates that way some businesses do night deposits after the business closes you
could follow employees after a Friday night shift and go all right not a single one of them
went to the bank so they're not depositing the money but that makes it more difficult when the owner lives at
the bologo alley right that I don't know if there would be any way for them to know
that they were a former employee correct and again I I really believe if they were former employees this case would be
solved yeah unless there was something that the owner did that these guys had something on him and and this was like a
way of them showing him hey we're we're serious guys that you don't want to mess
with yeah but they shot his granddaughter and his daughter and his daughter even though she survived years
later she died from the injuries from that attack yeah so it's like I I mean what do you have on the guy that that he
doesn't go screw it I don't care what these guys have on me I'm telling the cops everything I know cuz they they
they tried to kill my family yeah and they killed little kids of people that I know so it you know I I don't really and
look here's here's the thing Ronald cak and there's people out there that know this case really well and they're going
to go Ronald cak's a suspicious dude he's look he's not a likable guy I'm not going to sit here and pretend like he's
a likable guy he's your favorite and you know we have people that in interviews say he's not a likable guy
the police didn't like him the police said you know this guy was out talking to everybody after the after the case
took place after the shootings took place he's out telling them stuff that isn't true they looked into Ron CAC and
whether you like the guy or not at the end of the day what we have is we have detectives saying we looked at this dude
super hardcore we put him under a microscope looked at every aspect of his business dealings and his life yeah we
spread his cheeks we looked inside and we couldn't find any illegal activity you know the guy was not a smart
businessman he had a successful bowling alley that he ended up losing it in an auction in a court-ordered auction I
believe less than a year or maybe one full year after the shooting but he was not a smart business
guy he was not a likable guy but if I really believe dude if he was anyhow involved in this or looking for some
kind of insurance scam or whatever that I think they would have found this cuz they really honed in on him something
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[Music] cheers mates Cheers Cheers Cheers I can't stop looking at this picture of the suspects
mhm these these uh composite drawings and just thinking Sharman Sharman charman all right Captain well I want to
discuss how did these two suspects make such a clean getaway they were basically
undetected yes they were seen fleeing on foot by one person but I've often wondered were they running to a vehicle
or were they running to a nearby house or building to kind of hide out for a little bit one thing that we talked
about when we discussed the I5 killer and it's weird to go into the story and say I5 killer but for those
that don't know the story the I5 killer was also a robber and he was a very experienced robber and in fact sometimes
he would go in and rob a place and not kill anybody but one thing that he learned along the way in his robbery
career was that a vehicle is a really good way to get detected to get identified and get picked up and
arrested for these robberies and in his case the killings so he learned very early on that it was not wise for him to
park his vehicle near the place he was robbing so he would often park it blocks and block walks away because this dude
was pretty athletic the I5 killer he would Rob the place sometimes kill the person and then he would flee on foot
and then get to his vehicle and then drive off I thought maybe that might be what these dudes were doing maybe they
want to flee on foot and then make a a dash for the Border but then we we have a very big
difference between these two different people the the I5 killer and the unknown gunman at Las
cruus the I5 killer was wearing a mask and gloves when he committed his crimes so he did not want to be detected or
identified where the Los cruus gunmen they're not wearing mask or gloves then you have to take it a step
further and go well how much do they really care if their vehicle is spotted right but see again that almost makes me
think maybe they didn't have a vehicle to to run to right but I I also wonder if my theory is correct that these guys
case the joint for a while that they would have thought the brother was the technician and that got and then maybe
thinking that the technician doesn't show up everybody else shows up around 8:00 technician shows up about
8:30 well we have an individual showing up in between that time so he would have
been early if he was the technician did that startle them so they weren't able to put on their mask or their gloves
they went oh there's a technician we got to go Oh you mean for the purpose of fleeing no I mean that they startled
them at the beginning so before they entered the building they didn't put on their mask or gloves yeah I I don't know
um I would think if they brought mask and gloves with them they would have put them on regardless of the
situation we do have a a statement by the LCPD they have stated in the past and this is pure speculation on their
part as well that they believe that the two gunmen may have had some type of help that someone may have sheltered the
two of them shortly after so they could lay low and then maybe flee the area at another time I have a hard time
believing that they just kind of hung around Los crues for the next 30 years because as said their pictures were
plastered everywhere and we have Steve cak saying that is exactly what you drew looks exactly like the two guys that I
saw and then we have Ida backing that up we have the other witness that says hey
people that look like that I saw them running from the area what's interesting is that kind of plays a part into this
next portion where a woman named Irma tiina comes forward at some point and says
hey I think that the two gunmen were staying with me when they committed the crimes she says that there were two guys
and I believe they were involved in some kind of illegal drug activity at the time that were staying with her and when
the helicopters were flying around looking for the two gunmen who fled the bowling alley she says one of them said
to the other one we're right under their noses and they don't even know it this is a little weird this is a really weird
portion of the story for me Captain because this Irma this Irma Tien she passes a polygraph but at some point the
police like she recants her statement saying that she was just looking to I'm a little confused by her
statement it it implied that she was looking for a way to score some drugs I don't know if that meant that she was
looking to provide false information to the police and hoping to collect some of
the reward money but the short of it is she had her demons she was uh involved with drug drugs and it seems like quite
a bit especially around this time I have in my notes here that she passed away in
2001 from a drug overdose what I do know is that at some point the police seem to
be not interested in talking to this woman anymore yeah could be I mean we've seen this in a lot of cases where
somebody comes forward with supposed information and then you find out nobody was even staying with her these guys
didn't even exist they just existed in our head or some of the things that she telling them they were probably able to
prove were not true right and so they're like well we we can't uh we can't let her steer our investigation because it's
uh nonsense one of the things though too that is often mentioned in this case is
that the locals the local rumor always seems to have been that there were drugs involved or
suspected drugs involved in this case and that eventually the two gunmen fled to
Mexico and I think there could be some truth to both of those portions of the story but a lot of that I think stems
from the idea that Ida says that she believes from the gunman's actions that they were looking for something else in
the office that day not just the money in the safe and the way that this portion of
the story goes down is that once they're aware of where the safe is or they have
access to the safe that they still continue to look through filing cabinet drawers and desk drawers like they were
all they were looking for something else not just the money in the safe well again this kind of goes to the idea of
what if the owner was doing something shady and these guys were like Hey we're going to come collect from you he
happens to then be out of town and then these guys again looking they get the money cuz maybe the owner
owes them money and maybe or maybe he was going to traffic some drugs for them and so the drugs are gone but he's never
paid them the money so they go in there steal the money look for any extra drugs
or these guys just hear a rumor a bad rumor that's not true that the place is full of
drugs right I mean that that does happen a lot I mean we got the the whole clutter family was murdered because they
thought $10,000 was somewhere in that house and there was no money in that house yeah or they're looking for money
but they're looking for something else that of value that isn't drugs but again a rumor by somebody well that's where I
bring in RJ cak he's another son of Ron cak and he's a known drug user in fact he passed away from a drug overdose as
well and I believe this was in 1997 or 1999 seems to stick out but it was in the late
90s he was a known drug user and I believe he was he was known to have maybe even dealt drugs he worked at the
bowling alley in some form or fashion most reports St state that he was a bartender now obviously he was not
working on that day on that Saturday when the place was robbed and these poor people were
shot but then you have to take it a step further is that does that become the Genesis of this bad rumor or is RJ out
there tell telling people on the streets stuff that's not true or was he did somebody know that he
was actually running drugs out of there or selling drugs at the bar and then they go in there looking for said drugs
and this money from the safe then I want to go to what you referenced earlier here Captain the
Austin yogurt sh shop murders we covered those in episodes 81 and 82 in 2017 when we covered this I was amazed
at how many people told me they have always wondered if these two cases these two absolutely horrific
crimes if they were possibly connected the yogurt shop murders is an open homicide case in Austin Texas this
took place on a Friday December 6th 1991 so less than 2 years later a very similar crime and what do I mean by
similar crime at a yogurt shop in Austin Texas the store was robbed the girls there were four of them present were
brutally attacked and the building was set on fire afterwards all four killed again it's a no one spared situation one
of the big difference though was they were robbed at night right and this was robbed in morning correct and we also
have the I mean they they were subjected to rape and all kinds of attacks yeah where the Los Cruz's situation is much
different where the guys the robbers killers were in and out rather quickly but wasn't there a eyewitness that saw
some guys in the yogurt shop earlier that night that possibly had Army fatigues or well that's the thing we
really did our best to try to lock in on two very who who we believe might have been the suspects and they were two
individuals that were spotted in the yogurt shop just before closing time that have never been identified
everybody else that entered the yogurt shop that at night as far as we know that were seen by other customers have
been identified to this date except for these two guys the description of these two guys would make them significantly
younger than both of our suspects here in Los Cruses MH and this case took place as said
after Los crues so that doesn't really track but one thing I wanted to look at real quick was the holdback information
now what is hold back information hold back information is what the police will hold back so that the public doesn't
know about this in case they get false confessions or if they get people that they think are serious suspects
information that they can try to pull out of them to make them even stronger suspects things that only the
perpetrators would know about the crime in the yogurt shop they held back 13 bits of information now we know what
this is because eventually this did go to trial that whole thing is a mess long story short it's still an unsolved case
but let's go through this real quick because I wanted to compare it to Los crues here are the items that they held
back at the yogurt shop one how and where the fire was started well we know that in Los Cruz's bull the key to the
front door that's interesting because I would think that the detectives would want to have held back the information
that the gunman found the door unlocked at the bowling alley mhm that wouldn't have been people in the public wouldn't
expect the door to be unlocked it was closed the business wasn't open yet right how much money was taken I think
that what we have here at Los Cruz is that they have held that information back all the reports State 4,000 or
5,000 or somewhere between 4 and $5,000 was stolen from Los Cruz and I'm guessing that they're getting that
number from what they think the business probably would have made the night before but we have no way of knowing how
much business how much cash the business left on hand or how much cash that the owner stored of his own cash in in the S
safe because that's where he was living well we have the day manager there there
doing the books had she already gone through everything from the night before and counted all the money right they
would know how much was missing now the rumor has always been that they didn't take all of the money and which has
always been weird because sometimes it's reported that they left some of the in the safe they didn't take all the money
from the safe or they didn't take all the money from the bowling alley which again maybe they already loaded one of
the registers and they just didn't check the register before they left mhm regarding all of the money and the safe
one thing I've always wondered about that Captain because people will point out well that is proof that they were
looking for something else I do believe they were looking for something else I don't think if they left money in the
safe it's proof of such especially if the one portion of the story is true where the girls where they put the
victims in charge of loading up the briefcases may maybe just out of fear or Panic they forgot one of the areas that
there was Cash yeah exactly or they were St startled by Steven teron who came in
unexpectedly yeah possibly or it's a situation I mean look I know it's Hollywood but you watch the town you
watch Point Break sometimes those guys have timers after this timer goes off now moving on
to the next thing no matter where we're at and in the process right there are several items on this list of 13 that
may not pertain to what we have here at Las cruus a lot of the he holdback information at yogurt
shop had to do with the Bindings that were used to tie up the girls and also some of the injuries sustained to the
victims but we don't have as far as we know the victims here weren't tied up and it doesn't appear that they
Unleashed any kind of violence on these victims before shooting them so that may
not have any relevance in this case unless they did and that is part of the hold back information in Los cruus but
we also have one interesting thing here there were two different caliber of guns
used in yogurt shop and it's believed that there were two guns used in Los Cruz Bowl as well we have reports that
one of them was likely a 22 but never any reports of the other caliber of guns so maybe that's a portion that has been
held back there's also a couple of references here out of the 13 items in Austin yogurt shop of additional items
that was taken from the shop that that was not money so you have to wonder was there anything else
taken from the bowling alley that has been held back from the general public well as fascinating as I
find this case and as fascinating as I find the Austin yogur shop murders and if you haven't listened to those
episodes you should check those out I really think it's that there's a control here and this one
and is it possible that these individuals robbed multiple places and started losing control as they went on CU this
happened in the in 1990 yurt shop I believe was 91 so did they lose control as they went
um I I just I I view them as different things I really feel like the yogurt shop murders it was a lot more chaotic
perpetrated by different kind of monsters yeah with with different agendas but that doesn't mean that that
but to me somebody that has this much control is capable of doing this time and time
again without almost any fear of being caught yeah so one article that I found that I thought was really intriguing
Captain this was from the Associated Press in December of 1990 in fact it was December 19th of 1990 where they were
talking to Fred Rubio he's the Las cruus police Captain the head of the Department's detectives at the time and
he's talking about you know hey I would hate to leave this profession without being here when they solve this I love
the optimism of when they solve this and he says this case still haunts us now at
this time we're talking it's only 10 months old but he says we're not used to having Unsolved Mysteries here in this
city and that is intriguing because not only only is he referencing that hey the
case was covered on Unsolved Mysteries but remember in 1989 they only had two homicides and I didn't go through the
entire year of 1990 to figure out how many homicides Los cruus had in that entire year but what I did find was two
interesting things by February 16th of 1990 Los cruus the city of Los cruus had seven homicides by February 16th where
the year before two for the entire year now of course we know that four unfortunately four died on February 10th
of 1990 right that leaves three other homicides we actually mentioned one of the other ones earlier in our coverage
of this case there was a man that was stabbed and he was found at 2:30 in the afternoon the same day as the shootings
they solved that they found the guy that did that so there's one that's down there was a stabbing that took place
place on February 16th where unfortunately a victim died they located the perpetrator of that
murder very quickly and apprehended them what we have here is almost at the end of 1990 on the 19th of December Fred
Rubio says we only have two homicide cases for the entire year of 1990 that remain
unsolved that is the Lost Cruz's B bowling alley Massacre and a gas station robbery that took place in January well
what's that case C all right Captain let me run this by you and you let me know your feelings here this is from an old
Crim Stoppers article it says that they are looking for information leading to the arrest and prosecution of the
persons involved in the Robbery Homicide that occurred on January 14th 19 1990 at
Ray's Shell station located at 2417 West Pico in Los cruus the Los crusis Police
Department was called to the scene at approximately 10:04 a.m. where they found the attendant Salvador Lozano
lying face down in the office area further investigation revealed that the victim had been shot one time in the
back of the head the victim's hands were tied behind his back the caliber or type
of firearm used has not yet been determined investigators believe there was more than one person involved in
this robbery murder investigating officers have been able to determine that a robbery did take place prior to
the victim being shot and I'm going to go off of article here for a second I did some further snooping and found that
it's believed that approximately $500 was stolen from the gas station before this man was murdered and then they go
on to say anyone with information please call the Crim Stoppers or call the New Mexico State uh police so what I'm going
where I'm getting at here Captain is that 30 years ago these two crimes took place less than a month apart in time
the distance between these two businesses both located in Los Cruzes is 3.2 miles from one another they both
took place on a weekend day in the morning this was on a Sunday at 10:00 a.m. well they found the victim at 10:00
a.m. this could have taken place at 8:30 or 9: a.m. but we have LA Los Cruz's bowl that took place on a Saturday and
we know that the murders were committed before 8:30 on that day there seems to be a lot of similarities here where they
shooting unnecessarily shooting the person who is attending the business that they are robbing shot in the back
of the head more than one offender both still unsolved after 30 years not just the two unsolved homicide cases from
1990 well definitely some very interesting similarities in those cases you almost have to wonder if either
police have reason to believe that they're not connected proof that they're not connected and we
just don't know about this or is this a situation where the gas station was not that big of a score
$500 roughly and you have to wonder were they looking for a much bigger score and
thought that Las Cruz's Bowl could be what they were after not just the money in the safe but maybe some kind of drugs
or a large quantity of Narcotics are on scene as well and then this horrific crime multiple murders on the same day
and now it's just too the the heat has been turned up they got to get out of Dodge it's it's a tricky situation
because you want both of these crimes to be solved and then you sit here and wonder is it the same perpetrators and
that's why neither of them have been solved for 30 years MH well again with the evidence being
destroyed with the fire mhm these individuals what we do know is how vicious they are and you would think
they're so vicious over even such small amounts of money that they would eventually get
caught yeah you yes or end yeah end up in prison for some other offense or even some other murder MH we do have some new
information that came out recently and this is very interesting and I and I hope and pray that this goes somewhere
somehow because we still have people that are hurting very bad and here's the other thing you got to keep in mind too
when we talk about there is no real closure in these cases and that is absolutely true and victims and family
members of victims will tell you there is no real closure in these cases but one thing that I think's important to
bring up here when you have a situation like this where you have multiple people
multiple victims some of them did not survive that day mhm and some of them did unfortunately the ones that were
lucky enough if you want to call it that lucky enough to survive that day they live in fear for the rest of their lives
because they know that these two gunmen are still out there somewhere or could be out there yeah could be out there
somewhere so when we talk about no real closure that might be some pretty significant form of closure for our
surviving victims well we hear a lot that that the family deserves answers and answers doesn't always mean closure
but answers are important knowing what happened and why it happened is important even if they're never going to
get closure yeah because you can't bring people back and that's the that's the sad sad truth but we've had the
30-year anniversary I guess if you want to call it that it's been 30 years since
these murders took place and that was of course in February of 2020 and we wanted
to cover this ideally we would have covered this right around the anniversary but we were busy doing our
Shaker Heights project at that time and it couldn't couldn't be put off any longer so here we are now captain and
I'm kind of glad that we waited a little bit because we wouldn't had this little
tidbit of information had we done this case back in February so what happened was on the 30-year marker we have Los
Cruz's Crime Stoppers upped the reward for information on the ID of the possible suspects this is to
$30,000 and around the same time we have ABC7 anchor her name is Stephanie Vil she said that around the 30-year
anniversary she received a call from a woman originally from Los cruus who gave her the name of a
man the tipster is certain is the younger of the two attackers the younger gunman right she claims that his family
knew or had a decent idea that he committed the crime but remained quiet about it all of these years this man
that she is implicating killed himself in 1997 we will see if this comes to be what comes of this information I'm sure
we'll find out here hopefully sooner rather than later the Los cruus Police Department still urges anyone with any
kind of information at all no matter how seemingly insignificant to please please call Crim
Stoppers at 1 800 222 [Music] 8477 thanks for listening thanks for joining us in the garage Colonel do we
have any recommended reading this week Captain I am very excited to recommend to the good garage people an incredible
B book this is one of if not the best True Crime book of 2020 so far the book is called the Garden State Parkway
murders a Cold Case Mystery by Christian bar the Garden State Parkway murders is
the true story of two College friends who were brutally knifed to death and their bodies left off the parkway the
author identifies several suspects including Infamous serial killers Ted Bundy and Gerald stano this wonderful
book is the result of 9 years of nose to the Grind investigative research and it's out of wild blue press a premier
publisher of True Crime books so you know it's good check out the Garden State Parkway murders and other titles
on our recommended page at true Crim garage.com yeah and with the holiday next week we will be off we have we'll
still have off the Record but we have something very exciting for you so make sure you're following us on Twitter or
Instagram or Facebook because next week there'll be some very exciting things happening with the garage we are going
to be hot and heavy as they say hot in the hot tub if you're not following True Crime garage make sure you get that
started today you don't want to miss out on next week everybody have a great safe
and wonderful 4th of July until next time be good be kind and don't [Music] litter
you can start your day off right when you find a professional on Angie to get your plumbing right
first connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well
visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that

Las Cruces Bowling Alley Massacre /// Part 2 /// 411

Part 2 of 2

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This week Nic & the Captain go through the details, updates and speculation of a horrific mass shooting. The Las Cruces Bowl shooting of 1990 is one of the most well known unsolved cases of the Southwest, but there is still hope. Investigators believe that after 30 years of searching this case is still very much solvable. Join the conversation and find out if the Garage agrees. Beer of the Week - Aztec Death Whistle Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of 5 Thank you to this week’s sponsors! Save some CA$H with our promo codes!

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the unsolved Las Cruces bowling alley massacre, analyzing suspects, motives, and recent developments in the case.

Key points

True Crime Garage Introduction. Hosts Nick and the Captain introduce the episode and their beer of choice.
The Bowling Alley Heist. Discussion about the unsolved case of a robbery and murder at a bowling alley.
Inside Job Speculation. Exploring the possibility that the robbery was an inside job due to the gunmen's knowledge.
The Bowling Alley Suspects. Witnesses claim to have seen two men at the bowling alley before the crime.
Irma's Confession. A woman claims the gunmen were hiding with her during the crime, but later recants.
Unsolved Mysteries Haunt Las Cruces. Fred Rubio reflects on the haunting nature of unsolved cases in Las Cruces.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I wonder if these individuals knew what time the employees arrived.

Discussion about the gunmen's knowledge of the bowling alley's schedule.

5:38WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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