Kouri Richins found guilty | "48 Hours" Podcast | Forensic Files

We the jury unanimously find that the defendant Kouri Richins is guilty of aggravated murder.
There is a verdict in the [music] trial of Utah children's book author Kouri Richins, who had been charged with
murder and attempted murder of her husband Eric in 2022, along with insurance fraud and forgery.
>> [music] >> Kouri Richins was found guilty on all five counts as Eric's sisters and father
watched emotionally and reacted emotionally to the decision in court. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Natalie
Morales, and this is 48 Hours inside the Kouri Richins trial. Now, the state of Utah alleged that
Kouri Richins poisoned Eric with a lethal dose of fentanyl served in a Moscow Mule back in March of 2022,
after previously attempting to poison him via a sandwich on Valentine's Day of that same year. Before her arrest in
2023, she published a children's book about grief to help her kids mourn the loss of their father. Here with me to
discuss the verdict and the trial is Skye Lazaro, a defense attorney who represented Kouri Richins before the
trial, but she was there inside the Summit County courtroom for closing arguments. So, Skye, the decision really
came down after just a few hours once the jury went to deliberate. What was your reaction to then hearing the
verdict, and were you surprised? I was surprised by how quickly the jury came back.
Really, there was a lot of evidence that was presented in this case, and just, you know, from experience, I somewhat
expected the jury to go back, probably do a little bit of deliberation with the few hours they had, go home, get some
rest, and then come back the next day. >> So, the defense did make the decision not to call any witnesses and not to put
Kouri Richins on the stand. Was any of that a mistake in your opinion as a defense attorney? You hate to Monday
morning quarterback with somebody else does in trial. This is This is really difficult work, and these are decisions
that you make in real time. I understand why they did not. The state actually held back some
evidence. I think because they expected Kouri to probably testify and for the for the defense to put on a
defense. And the strategy really becomes do we put on what we have, and is what we have
enough to make a difference? Because what you do, the state gets a rebuttal in these cases. So, the state then gets
to come back because it's their burden of proof and put on even more evidence or more character evidence. So, really,
it gives a one more chance to send the jury back to deliberate or listen to closing arguments having heard even more
negative things about your client. It's always a really, really hard decision to
make. You never know which one's right. You second-guess everything you do, especially when you get a conviction,
then you then you really question it. But in this case, I think the state, to their credit, did a really, really good
job of painting a picture of Kouri Richins as someone who's capable of murder and and who did commit it. Let's
talk about the murder and attempted murder charges, and here's prosecutor Brad Bloodworth during his closing
arguments talking about the motive here. And the motive in this case truly was money. You know, Kouri was in over her
head in debt with her house-flipping business. Eric's estate was worth over $4 million
including a life insurance policy, which the prosecution alleged that Kouri forged to sign over to her to her name.
Let's take a listen to Bloodworth in his closings. The substance here happened to have been fentanyl.
Could have been any part of the illicit street drug that she bought. Happened to
be fentanyl that she administered in a Moscow Mule and a shot or a shot. But we know that's how she administered
it because it was in his belly. We know it was a lethal amount. The death certificate, fentanyl killed
him. That's the substance, lethal amount. Can be as small as 3 ng per milliliter.
And in this case, he had 15. Five times what can be a lethal amount. That, by the way, is not an accident.
That amount of fentanyl shows that Kouri Richins wanted Eric not only dead, but good and dead.
Well, that was Brad Bloodworth from the prosecution. Now, here is defense attorney Wendy Lewis. She insisted that
the prosecution did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Okay, so they have to prove that Eric or
I'm sorry, that Kouri Richins intentionally or knowingly caused the death of Eric
Richins. The state has not proven this. They haven't even proven that she obtained fentanyl.
They have not proven where the pills ended up or how Eric took them. State stood up here and argued, "Well,
it really doesn't matter what drug she purchased." As long as it was an illicit street
illicit street drug. It absolutely matters. Because what did he die of? He died of fentanyl.
There was no oxycodone in his system. There was no other drug in his system. They must prove that she purchased and
gave him fentanyl. So, Skye, the defense really leaned into the fact that the prosecution couldn't
100% prove that Kouri was the one who procured the fentanyl and put it into that Moscow Mule. The defense made the
case that Eric Richins was a recreational drug user, that he used to take gummies with
THC at night to help him sleep. Perhaps he got a a tainted supply of THC gummies
with fentanyl in it. So, in your in your mind, did the defense did not present that as as strong enough evidence to the
jury? I think with the jury's decision, it's clear that that it wasn't presented
strong enough, that there wasn't enough follow-up, that they didn't they didn't They put it on through
cross-examination, but maybe looking back at what should we have done differently or should we have put on a
defense, maybe those are the people you try to put on. Now, according to the prosecution, the key witness here is
Carmen Laub. She was a woman who worked with Kouri Richins as a cleaning person,
but also had a criminal history in dealing drugs and also admitted on the stand to having used drugs and having a
past with drug abuse, although she claimed she's clean now. But Laub said that Kouri had come to her on four
different occasions asking for drugs from her saying this was all for an investor, and then Kouri apparently
asked Carmen Laub for something even stronger than the painkiller that she had received in the past. Carmen talks
about her contact here when it came to buying those drugs. Take a listen. He said he had a a buddy that had some
fentanyl pills. What then did you do? I had text Kouri back and told her that I had a
a friend that could get them, but they were fentanyl pills. So, you told Kouri you had you you had a
a friend a hookup for the fentanyl pills. Yes. How did Kouri Richins respond? She said,
"Okay, go ahead and get." So, did you go ahead and get? Yes. So, Skye, I know Carmen Laub is somewhat
of a of a tough witness when it comes to the prosecution because even though she
is the key witness here, she also has a history with drugs, and she also seems to be according to the defense's side,
changing her story on multiple occasions, right? That's correct. The state really had a lot to overcome when
you pin your entire case on someone like Carmen Laub. We look back at the investigation, and we look at the
interviews that were done, and she does say that she sold Kouri drugs, but that wasn't fentanyl. And it wasn't
until several interviews later when the state investigators really pushing on her, "This is your get out of jail free
card." And remember, she's on probation for first-degree felony drug charges at the time. Those carry a potential
sentence of 5 years to life in prison. So, this is serious, and and that was played during the course of the trial.
They're looking to void your drug court deal and ask for 7 years on your two first.
5 years for the first the one felony and then a 40% portion for the second for 7 years.
The only exception to that and the only thing that they're willing to kind of help you out with is if you can help us
out with this. And by so, he he means like give us the details that will ensure Kouri gets convicted of murder.
And I want to talk about how the defense also went after Carmen Laub's testimony.
You know, they presented her with stacks of binders. I'm going to ask you to refer to these
as we talk. These are the transcripts of the interviews that you did in April and
May of 2023. So, in presenting those binders, it seems she's presenting the situation to
to Luber as this is all your testimony over the time and look how much it's changed, right Sky? That's exactly what
they did and they went after her pretty harshly. I I think at times she almost came across as sympathetic, which
didn't help the defense either. Because up till this point in the interview, you've said no fentanyl. I don't deal in
fentanyl. I didn't get her fentanyls. I got her Roxys. I got her oxy's. Oh, she asked for Michael Jackson drugs.
Oh, I guess I got her fentanyl. How else would fentanyl be in my head? Right? That's what's happened up to this point.
Correct. And the only person up to this point who has put the word fentanyl in your head are these detectives, correct?
Miss Luber, you're on the stand. At point, they are the ones that told you it was fentanyl.
They're the ones that told me that Eric passed away from fentanyl. They really did try to hammer on, you know, you
don't remember. You keep changing your story. You know, you were saying whatever the
state needed you to say. Now, one of the other big points for the prosecution is
some of the web searches made shortly thereafter Eric's death. Um queries about, for example, how to delete
information from your phone, if cops can force you to take a lie detector test, searches about life insurance and luxury
prisons for the rich in California, and also this query about a lethal dose of fentanyl. Did you think that that went
over with the jury in a compelling way enough so that it was it was convincing? I think it was confusing from what I saw
when those happened and I think that was really the important part of it. A search warrant was executed in April,
long after Eric's passed away and they take they search Corey's home, they take all of her electronics. Those searches
were conducted on her new phone. So, we know that those searches were conducted after she was given a copy of a search
warrant that said, we are investigating you, Corey Richens, for the homicide of Eric Richens and we believe he died with
a lethal dose of fentanyl. So, so those search warrants or those searches that were done I I think are
explainable when she's learning for the first time, I mean investigated for murder, they think I did it.
Um and you know, now they've taken my phone. I don't know what a lethal dose of fentanyl is. You know, actually I think
that could probably be spun in her defense. She didn't know what a lethal dose of fentanyl was. Had she killed
him, she would know what is enough. Let's talk about that walk the dog letter. Now, we had reported that on
this in our 48 Hours report. You couldn't talk to us really at length about that letter at the time. Now,
allegedly this was a letter from Corey to her mother giving her brother Ronnie instructions on what to say in terms of
how to present the case and her story. And this was written in September of 2023 and the jury was shown
this redacted version of of the letter and here is Detective Jeff O'Driscoll reading from that letter in the court.
Page one, walk the dog, but take vague notes so you remember. Here is what I'm thinking, but you have
to talk to Ronnie. He would probably have to testify to this, but it's super short, not a lot to
it. He will need to tell Sky at the meeting next week. Upon information and belief,
just like they say, a year prior to Eric's death, Ronnie was over watching football one Sunday
and Eric and Ronnie were chatting about Eric's Mexico trips. Eric told Ronnie he gets pain pills and
fentanyl from Mexico from the workers at the ranch. Not to tell me because I would get mad
because I always said he he just gets high every night and won't help take care of the kids.
There are pictures in my phone of Eric passed out on the floor or in the chair. So, this letter, I mean, how big a deal
is this letter? I mean, was it witness tampering from Corey Richens in this case? Is this Corey trying to set up her
story? What did you make of it? Because you're actually named in it. You know, Corey says, please tell Sky a couple of
times in the letter. Uh this letter was probably the single worst thing that probably could have happened to Corey.
It was published immediately uh by the District Attorney's office to the press that it it really set the scene
for Corey's a bad person and Corey will lie to get whatever she wants and use whoever she needs to.
The reality is and and I think this was discussed at a hearing that we had after
we talked on 48 Hours when I couldn't really talk about it was this letter was was found in her cell after they
executed a search and took a whole bunch of documents including things I had to fight to get back because
uh they were privileged. Um this letter was never given to anyone. There was never an indication that it
was going to be given to anyone or mailed. Corey knew that they read all her mail
that she sent out. There was no way she was getting this letter out without knowing. Uh so, you know, my perspective
on it still is it's thoughts on a page. It's not witness tampering. I certainly don't appreciate parts of it. Um
and and you know, would never cross any lines as an attorney. You know, the way she may hope, but Mhm.
uh it it reads really problematic. It it's always been a problem in this case. I expected it to continue to be a
problem and it it just it it in conjunction with everything else that was presented about her, it just really
does not help put her in a positive light. So, the prosecution really talked about
the financial motive, but they argued that Corey also wanted to start this whole other life with Robert Josh as he
goes by Grossman. This was the man that she was having an affair with. Now, when we spoke um Sky back in 2023,
that affair there had been rumors of it, but we didn't have confirmation of it. So, now we're seeing we have
confirmation of it and his testimony when he took the stand, he seemed somewhat nervous.
Um he seemed to really hate the fact that he was there. Even when he was taking the oath, he seemed
uh confused at times, would you say? I would agree with you and in your correct when we previously spoke on
this, there were it'd been kind of thrown out there that there perhaps was an affair. This other individual
existed. We now know and through text messages that have been in, you know, obtained and entered into evidence that
he does. His testimony was interesting uh for sure that was probably the first time he uh had seen Corey since the
relationship ended uh and and he was, you know, clearly upset by either having to be there or having to
testify against her or the relationship in and of itself. And the prosecution, they spent hours
with him and taking him through some of those text messages that they were sending to each other back and forth.
Now, these text messages showed both of them professing their love, but when Corey got arrested, he said that's when
he started feeling really guilty and that's when he said he actually went to Eric's family and he spoke to one of the
sister's husbands and then they had him meet with their private investigator and
Josh recalled that conversation also that he had with Corey soon after Eric's death. Did she ask you a question about
killing? She did. Asked me if I if uh Yeah. What sort what sort did she ask? She asked if if I had ever killed
anybody. And was that specific to killed anybody while serving in Iraq? Right. Did you respond? I did.
Did she ask a follow-up question? Yes. Sir, what was that follow-up question? She asked me how it made me feel or
something along those lines. The way it was presented in court, I think was really effective for the state. Uh
and and they talked about it again in their closing argument and said, it's not like she said, you know, have you
ever seen anyone die or has has a loved one or a close person to you ever died? It was, did you have you ever killed? Uh
it was it was really I think damaging to Corey. Did the defense have much when it
came to cross-examining Josh? You know, there really wasn't a lot there. I mean,
you know, the cross of Josh, I think really needs to be, did Corey ever tell you that she killed him? Did you ever
see her buy fentanyl? Did she ever ask you to get her fentanyl? Did you ever she ever have any conversation, you
know, about getting rid of Eric and what she would do? I know there was conversations about her wanting to just
be with Josh. You know, but really, you know, and if he can't provide any anything on that, then it's like, "Okay,
thank you." So, she had an affair. Mhm. But that affair, I mean, to the jury, you know, an affair does not make a
murderer, but in this case, it was just one more thing that you think was more damaging to Kouri.
I think so. No, an affair never makes a murderer. And this affair had gone had been going on and off for years. Uh and
actually, you know, if if as the state alleges that one of the reasons she killed Eric was to be with Josh, this
relationship, as he testified on the stand, really just fizzled out shortly after Eric
died. And so, it it really is kind of flies in the face of that theory, but I think, you know, when you couple it with
all of these other things, uh that that they just never were really able to the defense was never really able to
counteract and humanize her in a real effective way, it the circumstantial evidence just really really adds up. And
then finally, I want to talk to you about the book. Um this is the book, I think, that got everybody's attention.
It was a children's book about grief to her children, but it drew, I think, a lot of attention to this case. I want to
play some sound once again from the prosecutor, Brad Bloodworth, during the closing argument about the book. She
wrote it, had it written, and published it in early 2023, when she knew that investigators were investigating her for
the murder of Eric Richins. She promoted it. Her mother sent a book to investigators all to deflect attention
away from Kouri Richins. She also wrote it to make money. You see the emails, they're in evidence. She
thought she would sell 100,000 copies in 10 months at $5 profit a copy. That is not tethered to reality.
But it does provide insight into how desperate she was for money. As she betrayed
She betrayed on her sons and the death of her father to make money. The final thing that tells you about
Kouri Richins [clears throat] is that she wanted, as part of her facade, as part of her
appearance of success, privilege, and affluence, she wanted to be an author. But she didn't write it,
and you can see it from her writings and text messages, orange notebook, the notes, the walk the dog letter. Not only
did she not write it, she's not a good writer. But she wanted to appear as one. The appearance was what was important to
her. Bloodworth there is alleging that this was written by a ghostwriter, and this
was really, again, Kouri trying to put on appearances of that grieving widow, that grieving mom with her children.
What did you make of of that presentation of of Kouri? That was their entire theory of this was everything she
did, she did for attention. And he he came back to that numerous times in his closing argument talking about the
timing of why she did things or when she did them because they would get more attention
and or more sympathy for her. And they tied it to the book. And the book in and of itself, I
it didn't really sell that many copies. I know it was taken off. Probably would have sold a lot more
after if it'd been left up after she'd been charged. But Kouri at at all times, and you know,
maintained to investigators, to everyone, that she loved her children. You know, there was no
there was no evidence presented that she didn't love her children. I think that the timing of the book, I I'll concede,
was absolutely terrible. Please don't write books when you're under investigation for murder. But Yeah. you
know, it doesn't help things. But, you know, I think the state's idea of why she did it is is wildly
speculative, and I'm not sure there's really any evidence to back that up. Well, I know Eric's family was, of
course, very much relieved by the verdict. It is what they wanted all along. His sister, Amy, said she was
happy that they finally got justice for her brother. The sentencing for Kouri Richins is
scheduled for May 13th. What do you expect will happen then? What What do you expect will be the outcome of that
with all five counts coming back as guilty? There's two options the judge has on on count one, and I think,
regardless of what he does with counts two through five, probably don't matter. Count one, aggravated murder in Utah,
the sentencing possibilities are 25 >> [clears throat] >> years to life in the Utah State Prison
or life without parole. Uh that'll really be the decision the judge makes. On a 25 Even if he gives
her the lower end of that, the 25 years to life, whether or not he can, you know, add
consecutive sentences for the remaining charges, I I think really probably doesn't matter. It's going to be so long
before she's eligible for parole unless this case comes back on appeal for some reason,
uh that she's going to spend significant amount of time, if not the rest of her life, in prison. Well, I know the
defense had at multiple times asked the judge for a mistrial. The judge did not buy that.
But I imagine there will be an appeal. Is that your your understanding of what might happen next? I would expect an
appeal to come in this case without any personal knowledge. She was convicted of
aggravated murder and the remainder of the counts, I think there's there's no other option but to
file an appeal. There were enough rulings and pretrial litigation rulings, rulings
that the made the judge made during the trial that an appellate attorney will will pick this up and say, "Hey, look,
some of these, you know, were [music] were detrimental, and it should come back." You know, that that would be up
to our Utah Supreme Court as to how they're going to rule on those. >> Well, once again, Skyler Zaro, thank you
so much for your expert insight into this case, the Kouri Richins trial. Thanks for having me, Natalie.

Kouri Richins, Utah author and mother, was just found guilty for murder and attempted murder of her husband Eric Richins. The state accused her of killing him with a fentanyl-laced Moscow mule in 2022 after previously attempting to poison him via a sandwich on Valentine's Day. Monday evening the jury found her guilty on all counts including insurance fraud and forgery. In a special episode, "48 Hours" correspondent Natalie Morales speaks with Skye Lazaro, former defense attorney for Richins, about the significance of the outcome and the key moments in court that let up to the verdict. This episode was recorded on March 17.

CASE UPDATE: On May 13, 2026, Kouri Richins was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Kouri Richins was found guilty of murdering her husband Eric with fentanyl, raising questions about motive and defense strategy.

Key points

Kouri Richins Found Guilty. The jury unanimously found Kouri Richins guilty of aggravated murder and other charges.
Emotional Reactions in Court. Eric's family reacted emotionally to the verdict, highlighting the trial's impact.
The Financial Motive. Prosecutors argued that Kouri's motive for murder was financial gain from Eric's estate.
The Controversial Letter. A letter found in Kouri's cell raised questions about witness tampering and her intentions.
Affair Complicates Defense. Kouri's affair was presented as a potential motive, complicating her defense.
Kouri's Literary Aspirations. Kouri wanted to be seen as an author, but she didn't write well.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The state alleged that Kouri forged a life insurance policy.

Details of the charges against Kouri Richins.

0:23WatchMar 18, 2026

Tension

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