The Boy Who Killed His Twin | Post Mortem | Forensic Files

[Music] Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, 48 Hours correspondent Ann Marie
Green. And joining me today to discuss the season premiere episode of 48 Hours is 48 hours correspondent Aaron Morardi.
Erin, how many seasons has it been for you now? >> Okay, I was trying to count and I think
it's 35, which means isn't this your first full season? So, you have a little bit to catch up with me.
>> All right. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. I still with all those seasons under your belt. This is quite
an episode. I don't know if you've done anything like this one before. It's the perplexing case of Ben Elliot. He
murdered his twin sister Megan in 2021. They were both just 17 years old at the time. Now, Ben maintains his innocence.
He admits that he stabbed his sister, but he says he was sleepwalking and he did not intend to harm her. So, this is
one of those episodes, Aaron, that throughout the hour, my mind kept on changing about whether or not, you know,
I felt it was intentional. I felt that, you know, whether or not he was guilty. I just I couldn't really decide. You
know, Amarie, I'm with you. I was conflicted as well when I first started on the story. I thought, well, that's a
novel defense. Um, you know, but I thought of it as a defense, but I have really gone 180. The problem here is our
judicial, our criminal judicial system that is based on adversarial uh sides. Uh, the courts want to find guilt or
innocence, guilt or not guilty. Um, in this case, we know he did it. He, you know, Ben Elliott admits he stabbed his
sister, but we don't know why or if he intended to. And the other problem with this case, which you and I will talk
about, is this is a young man who never shows a lot of emotion. >> Absolutely. We will get into his
demeanor, but before we even sort of get into the case, we'll just remind people
that if you haven't actually listened to this episode of 48 hours, you can do so.
You can find the full audio version just below this episode that you're listening
to in your podcast feed. Go take a listen and then come on back for this conversation. Okay. You actually have a
pretty unique perspective here. Um, you are a twin, which I'm just learning. >> I am a twin. I have a twin sister. We
are not identical, but we are very close. And so this case hit me hard. It was hard not to look at this case as a
twin. I can't in a million years imagine hurting my twin. It's the person I knew
before anybody. Um, and in this case, there didn't seem to be any problem between these two people. So, how do you
make sense of that? Yes, the prosecution argues that Ben intentionally killed his
sister and that he wasn't sleepwalking, that this was just sort of an excuse, something that he made up. but they
never really established a motive. And me as the viewer/jur watching this, that bothered me. What was so troubling about
this case is that not only was there no evidence of a motive or a problem between these twins, everyone uh that
the prosecution talked to said that that Ben loved his sister and and loved being
her protector. she was she had been diagnosed um as autistic and he according to the witnesses wanted to
protect her. But here's something else to think about. They couldn't find any evidence um on either one of the twins
phones. You would think if there was a problem between the two there'd be some kind of text uh trail. Uh another thing,
this is a young man who used his phone all the time. if he was just going to use sleepwalking as a defense, an
excuse, wouldn't you think he'd do some research? They didn't find any. Uh, so I found
this all so troubling because again, the prosecutors say he's a danger to society. That's why they charged him
with firstdegree um and and fought to get him convicted of firstdegree murder. And yet there's
no evidence other than the act itself, which is pretty awful. Uh that that he really intended to do this.
>> Mhm. I I think that though that that would have helped me as I was watching the hour if they could give me a re the
why even though they don't really have to. Um but the other thing that I kept on thinking about as as I was watching
the hour is just how much do you know about sleepwalking? I think immediately what comes to mind is sort of this
visual of this person walking with their eyes closed and their arms out sort of zombie like not you know somebody doing
sort of complicated tasks but I have to say I have heard some crazy things about
people you know could be an urban myth but I mean cooking a turkey while sleep walking and that all that sort of stuff.
>> Well you know it's not crazy for someone to to actually cook while they're sleeping. I learned that. Um so just so
that people understand what it is there's a large category uh called parasomnio and sleepwalking is one of
those um so is sleep eating or if you want to say sleep cooking um and it really happens and it's more common than
I realize it is. Uh but crimes committed uh while you're sleepwalking is less common although it does happen. Here's
the real problem Amarie and it was a problem reporting on this. There are no usually no witnesses to somebody
sleepwalking and so they sometimes have to kind of guess about what happens during those episodes. So we have
experts because they were used in the trial uh both on the defense side and on the prosecution side and both sides
agree that parasomnia sleepwalking does occur. They also agree when it occurs it
it occurs during a period of your sleep which is nonrem slowwave sleep. Um and it's when you're almost like in a
twilight zone between sleep and being awake. But then the experts disagree. And here's the problem. You have the
defense witness saying that there are pockets of memory and that's why Ben Elliot could remember stabbing, but the
the states witness says there are no pockets of memory. The fact that he could remember stabbing his sister meant
he was not sleepwalking. And you know what we're talking about here too is not just sort of like stumbling around your
bedroom, right? We're talking about a very violent act. I I do the experts have any opinion on what might cause
someone who's normally not violent to act out violently in their sleep? Dr. Pressman, the prosecution sleep expert,
said that something has to happen to the sleepwalker. somebody has to interfere with their movement. Uh but again,
because in most of these cases, there are no cameras, no witnesses, they don't know exactly. We don't know what
happened in that bedroom. Did Megan wake up? Did she put a hand up to try to stop
him? We don't know. Dr. depressment. Um he said something along the lines of, you know, he knew that he wasn't
sleepwalking because he came out of it quickly. And I just sort of thought, how did he know how quickly he came out of
it? Because there were only two people in that room and it certainly wasn't the expert.
>> Exactly. He's claiming that the fact that Ben said, "I remember stabbing her," meant that he had come out quickly
to have that kind of memory. Uh Dr. Presman says he shouldn't have any memory of it. The prosecution actually
used uh the fact that Ben had some memory against him by saying that Ben had actually killed his sister earlier
and had time to come up with uh a story. Uh and then calling 911. >> Again, as you point out, Emory, there
were no cameras. There were no witnesses. We don't know and the experts don't know. Mhm. So, here's kind of like
my journey uh with Ben, right? Initially, I just thought, you know, his presentation is a little odd. And it
starts with that 911 call. At this point, you've listened probably to hundreds of 911 calls. You know,
sometimes people are frantic and yelling. Sometimes they are very measured and controlled. They want to
get the information out. Ben had this soft whispery voice. It just was a little odd.
>> Well, and it was odd to the prosecutors. That was part of the trial. The in fact,
the prosecutor imitated the phone call in front of the jurors and was whispering. And that's fair to an extent
because certainly when you listen, as you did, Amory, it does sound like he's whispering and he may have been. But I
also want to point out that when I met Van Elliott in the jail and interviewed him, he is very soft-spoken and he
doesn't show a lot of emotion. And what he said to me was uh that he wasn't whispering. That that's how he talks.
>> But then why didn't he scream out to his parents? That was the other thing that
kind of bothered me. I thought like why is it that the parents are finding out what's happening, you know, when the
like cops are showing up? Like why wouldn't he say, "Oh my god, help me." >> Well, you know what, Emry, that is such
a good question and it's certainly what the prosecution pointed out. Like why did he call 911? Why did he keep his
voice down? He didn't want his parents to know. And that's possible. But can I just point out here's where my
experience as a twin comes in. Uh so when you are a twin, whether you're identical or not, you have a real
closeness. That is who you share everything with. And I just want to throw out that possibility that as a
twin, he was calling 911 because he was thinking of his sister and then didn't think about calling his parents until
the 911 operator asked him to. It's a possibility. As a twin, I see that as a possibility. I think the other thing
that really surprised me about this episode is just how many people are familiar with sleepwalking because I
kind of went through it's nowhere close to sleepwalking but my husband talks in his sleep and when we first met it would
be sort of this mumbly stuff that I couldn't understand but it's definitely progressed over time but I mean one of
the prosecutors was a sleepwalker her children jurors knew sleepwalkers I I was like how many people are
sleepwalking and then I also thought could that have an impact on, you know, whether the not they thought he was
guilty or innocent because I don't I don't know. Do you know if their familiarity with sleepwalking had an
impact on how they decided this case? >> I think Emory, it was a double-edged sword. In one hand, it helped the
defense because because you had jurors who knew that sleepwalking exists and they heard during the trial that Ben
seemed to have a a history of sleepwalking. The other side of that uh sword is though that committing a crime
while sleepwalking is very rare. Uh none of the people who were familiar with sleepwalking knew someone who committed
a crime. And I think that's hard for someone to believe that even jurors who knew that people sleepwalk to believe
that someone could actually commit a terrible crime like this. Uh they also heard testimony for do from Dr. Presman
who says that >> during sleepwalking you can't have conscious thought um and made a big deal
that in order for Ben to have stabbed his sister he had to pull his knife out of the sheath and Dr. Presman testified
that that was too much of a conscious thought. Uh and yet you and I know um that there have been cases where
somebody has driven uh and then committed a crime while sleepwalking and the jury acquitted that
person of murder. >> Welcome back. Uh let's dive into the really chilling body cam footage. When
first responders arrive on the scene, Ben is giving Megan CPR compressions. His parents, uh, Michael and Kathy, they
are there. They are distraught. They are confused. They ask police what has happened to their daughter, Megan. Well,
Emory, at first glance, when you see that body cam footage and you see these parents asking and the police are
saying, "We're not going to tell you." It seems cruel at first glance, but you have to realize that they're walking
into that house not knowing what happened, who exactly was involved. They just know someone inside that house was
involved. Maybe they all were. And so until they could really understand what happened, I they did not want to share
any information. They didn't want anyone in the house sharing stories, getting a
story together until they could figure out exactly what did happen. It really makes more sense when you look at it
from the vantage point of these investigators walking in cold. It It does make sense, I imagine, for
Michael and Kathy though, as this whole thing sort of continues to unfold, they then decide that they're going to
call a family friend who happens to be an attorney. Now prosecutors use that decision a little bit against them,
frame it like it's a very suspicious thing to do. Well, and we see this over and over
again in these cases, Amarie. So the family wants to know what to do most of the time. They've never been involved in
a situation like this. So they had a friend who was a lawyer and and in fact that lawyer helped them find out what
happened to Megan. That's how they found out that their daughter had died. But then at trial it was used against uh the
family by the prosecution. And we see that happening over and over again in cases. Um the prosecutors said that the
family um had conducted a cover up from the and I'm quoting the get-go, you know, from the very beginning because
from the prosecution's viewpoint, if you have nothing to hide, why are you calling a friend who's a lawyer? So
Ben's family, you the his parents, they're already going through this heartbreaking experience. But now part
of the prosecution's narrative is and they're involved in a cover up. Their head must have been spinning. Well, can
I just tell you this was one of the most emotional interviews I've done with parents as you can imagine. They have
lost a daughter. They are they feared they'll lose their son. They for the first time I found out that they thought
maybe he had schizophrenia. They really seemed and they said to me that they really wanted to know what happened. So
they were very upset with the idea that anyone would accuse them of a cover up. And they point out that Ben was willing
to talk to the state's expert, sleep expert, but that the state sleeps expert did not want to talk to Ben. uh that
expert felt he had enough information by looking at the reports and and every evidence in the case and did not need to
talk to Ben was what what he said to me. So the family was devastated with the claim that they were trying to cover up
because that's not how they saw it. The jurors really got to see Ben Elliot's police interrogation.
I'm curious as to, you know, what they felt about his demeanor and what you felt about his demeanor because you
spoke to him. >> That's the hard part, Emory, in these cases. Um, we are judging people by how
they act under the worst moments of their lives, but we've never met those people before. So, it's a very tough
part of any criminal trial to try to figure out how do you judge the demeanor of somebody. The Ben that I saw on
police cam footage was very similar to the Ben I met uh when I saw him in the jail. uh he was a little more animated
with me because apparently his grandmother was and is a fan of mine. Um uh and so he did say to me kind of that
his grandmother under different circumstances would be happy to know that that I was the one who interviewed
him. So I saw more of a open talkative Ben. But through most of the interview, the Ben we saw in police cam footage was
pretty much the same guy I interviewed and his parents told me the same thing that that is who he is. I did talk to
him about um his affect and the fact that he was talking about things that seem so unrelated to what had just
happened to his sister. You see him during the interview with the the detective talking about, you know, he's
just been taken from his home after stabbing his sister and he's talking about taking his SAT. That struck me
when I saw it and he said to me that he had just shut down. He didn't want to believe that he had done what he had
done to his sister and he was trying not to think about it. So Erin, the other thing that really jumped out at at me
that bothered me, tell you the truth, is that he calls his home, he calls it a crime scene. Did Did you get a chance to
ask him why would you call it a crime scene? Well, I did. Um, and his answer was because it was a crime scene. I
mean, we hear him in 911 saying he's dad killed his sister. So, um, he clearly thought it was a crime. Um he said he
knew that they would cordon it off. I mean he kind of knew what the police would do. Um so he did not find the fact
that he had used that term unusual. So you know that was just some of what the jury um had to consider. Um but there
were other pieces of evidence that swayed them. What were kind of the big pieces of evidence for the jury?
>> Well, you point out demeanor was a big one. the number of stab wounds because
the prosecution did make a big deal about it and one of those wounds was very deep and the prosecution said that
that goes to the idea that he intentionally stabbed her. >> The prosecution also talked to the
jurors about the fact that according to the prosecution there should have been blood spatter. She was stabbed in the
neck and the prosecution, and this is all just their theory. There was no proof of it, but the prosecution
argued that the pillow that was near Megan had been used by Ben to keep her from yelling and that kept uh blood
spatter from hitting the wall. But Ben had said he used the pillow, but he says he did it to try to stop the bleeding.
>> Mhm. >> Near the end of it was during their closing, the prosecutors told the
jurors, "Well, we have no motive, but you never know what goes on behind closed doors." And I think that really
struck the jurors. So, the jurors initially were split uh seven to five, but then ultimately they all come around
and it's a unanimous decision, right? that they find Ben Elliot guilty of firstdegree murder. I just thought like
maybe a lesser charge would have been more appropriate like manslaughter or something like that instead of
first-degree murder. >> Yeah. I should also point out so when you say seven to five, it was seven
people initially were for guilty and five for not guilty. Um when you see that these are young people and a young
defendant, you might think, well, do you really want to do first-degree murder? This is his twin. But what you have is a
17-year-old teenager who's dead and you have two stab wounds. And I think the prosecutors, they believe he had the
intent to kill her and that's first degree and that's why he was charged with that. Um, and I should also point
out with the jurors that even though there were five initially who thought that Ben might not be guilty, they all
came around to a unanimous decision of guilt and were satisfied with that decision at the end. Well, you say that
um we know that prosecutors wanted a sentence of 40 years, but this might give us a little window into what the
jury was grappling with because a member of the jury asked for leniency. It makes you wonder. Well, leniency
according to the juror because he felt so bad for the parents. >> But I I do want to leave you with this
idea of what Ben said to me which I thought was interesting. Ben believes that some of the jurors did have
reasonable doubts. Um, and he points out that the judge could have sentenced him
to 40 years, but instead chose to sentence him to a much shorter period of time. And he said to me, if people
really thought that he had killed his sister in cold blood, wouldn't they want him locked up for the rest of his life?
We'll remind people he got a prison sentence of 15 years. That makes him eligible for parole in 2032. He will
still be a young man, uh, 28 years old if he if he does get parole at that time.
>> And I do want to add, Emory, that um, Ben is appealing this verdict. >> How are his parents and her parents as
well, how are they coping? I it occurred to me that they probably barely had a moment to sort of get over the shock of
Megan's death and and even begin grieving for her before they had to pivot and think about Ben.
>> I have not spoken to them recently, but I did speak with them this summer, and
they are, as you can imagine, just devastated. When you speak with them, you can feel their pain. Um, and and
they're a little bewildered to this to this day, wondering why there wasn't in their mind more of an attempt to find
out what really happened in the early morning hours uh to Megan. They miss Megan. They worry about Ben. They have
an older daughter. And I noticed through the interview, they just held hands through the whole thing. And so I said,
>> "Oh my gosh, you guys, you're getting through this together. this and they said we couldn't have gotten through it
without each other and that was very touching to me. >> Absolutely. Well, this is unlike one
that I've seen so far on 48 hours. Uh I think you're going to take the viewers on kind of a bit of a roller coaster and
I'm curious to see where everyone lands once they watch it. Thank you so much Aaron.
>> Thanks so much Emory. I think we're going to have this in our hearts for a while too.
>> Indeed. Before we leave, Aaron, you have another podcast. Can you tell us about
it? >> It's called 15 inside the Daniel Marsh murders. Um, this is again one of those
cases that it's really hard to shake. This was not only a thrill killer, but he was just 15 when he killed two people
that he did not know, two strangers just to know what it felt like to kill someone. Uh, so it raises all kinds of
of important questions about what do you do when you have a 15-year-old killer who then is diagnosed as a psychopath?
Um, do you keep him in prison the rest of his life? What do you do? And the impact on the the victim's families.
It's it's a a very moving and chilling podcast. So, you can find 15 on your favorite podcast app. If you like this
episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcast or on Spotify.

Join "48 Hours" correspondents Anne-Marie Green and Erin Moriarty on "Post Mortem" as they discuss the case of Ben Elliott, who admits to stabbing his twin sister when they were teenagers, but has an unusual defense: he was sleepwalking when he killed her.

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Ben Elliot claims sleepwalking defense after stabbing his twin sister, raising questions about intent and family dynamics during the trial.

Key points

The Perplexing Case of Ben Elliot. Ben Elliot admits to stabbing his twin sister but claims he was sleepwalking.
Conflicted Feelings. Both hosts express their uncertainty about Ben's guilt throughout the discussion.
The Role of Sleepwalking. Experts discuss the complexities of sleepwalking and its implications in the case.
The Emotional Toll on Parents. Ben's parents face accusations of a cover-up while grieving their daughter's death.
Jurors' Dilemma. Jurors grapple with the evidence and ultimately reach a unanimous decision of guilt.
Ben's Sentence. Ben received a 15-year prison sentence, eligible for parole in 2032.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

We know he did it, but we don't know why or if he intended to.

Discussion about Ben's admission and the uncertainty of his intent.

1:48WatchOct 4, 2025

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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