Kim Wall /// Part 2 /// 240 | Forensic Files

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[Music] % welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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is enough of the business thank you Captain everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
crime [Music] in August of 2017 30-year-old Kim wall disappeared after boarding the uc3 Nautilus
submarine with a man named Peter Madson now we discussed that they had found Peter Madson he claims they he had
dropped Kim off and then later they find the submarine and they find evidence to
suggest that something very bad had happened to Kim wall while on board the submarine but at this point they've
still not found Kim wall police in an effort to do so reconstructed the travels of the Nautilus on August 10th
and 11th using radar signals from other ships traffic that night and they conducted extensive searches of the
waters the Nautilus navigated so a huge effort made but they do not locate Kim well on August 21st a cyclist biking at
3:40 in the afternoon on a major Island near where the Nautilus went down he found a naked mutilated torso floating
on the Island's Shoreline so they find her body 11 days after she went missing the Torso which had a belt strapped
around it with several pieces of metal piping tied to the Belt as if to weit it down the corpse was sent to the
Department of forensic medicine at the University of Copenhagen where DNA analysis confirmed that this was Kim
wall Peter then embellished his story about the accidental death to try to account for the discovery of this naked
torso all right so let's let's hear what the dickn had to say well some of these
details about his story came out in the Press uh despite a court gag order put in place so that the lurid details would
of what happened to Kim didn't become tabloid fder well when they placed the gag order I think U Peter started
playing flicky flicky again in a September hearing to determine whether there was sufficient evidence to
continue to hold Peter pending further inves investigation of the case Peter told the court that he slipped when in
the subs Tower and tried to hold the hatch but it fell down Kim who was on her way up the tower was hit in the head
by the hatch she fell down the ladder and bled from an open skull fracture this is what he said he explained that
the accident horrified him and he panicked he then hauled him up using a rope which resulted in her clothes being
pulled off specifically he stated that her stockings and underwear came off as a result of his pulling her up by the
legs he then dropped her body into the sea and intended to commit suicide because he was so distraught from what
had just occurred soon after Kim's torso was found the prosecutor changed the charges against Peter mats into
manslaughter now just just to be clear in Denmark this is a greater charge not a lesser charge as it is here in the
United States in Denmark this is the equivalent of intentional homicide or premeditated murder the autopsy results
and of course they were shocking they concluded that Kim had been stabbed 14 times in and around her vagina along
with at least one other stab wound on her rib cage and others on the body it was determined that these wounds were
inflicted quote around or shortly after her death end quote the the autopsy could not determine whether she was
strangled but there were signs of mechanical xixia caused by either strangulation or slit throat Kim's limbs
they could determine were likely removed with assault mhm now danish military divers continued to look for the rest of
Kim's body and the water around where the sub sank this was an incredibly complicated effort requiring
oceanography experts in currents and Tides analyzing likely flow of the waters they used meteorologists to
analyze the weather patterns effect on the water in the area and Recreations of some of the exact sailing routes of the
Nautilus using that radar that we discussed earlier right and again this is 11 days after she went missing or
last time she was seen so they have to do this math and this research for the last 11 days well once investigators
determine where the body likely was they used special cadaver dogs from Sweden who were trained to sniff through water
these these amazing dogs can smell a dead body 30 m down even after the passage of time mhm finally nearly 2
months after Kim went missing divers found her head clothing and sneakers and a knife in separate plastic bags in the
waters about 6 miles from where her torso was found they also found both legs all of these body parts were
weighted down with pieces of metal piping or tubes as they were described the being similar to that that
was used in the Nautilus in the submarine well there's so many cases that we cover that law enforcement will
screw something up or the investigation get screwed up or you even feel like there might be just lack of effort and
then in this case you see law enforcement and you see this team of people gather around together and and
really go above and beyond well despite these discoveries Captain Peter stuck to
his story that that uh Kim had been hit in the head by the heavy hatch and died and he disposed of her body yeah uh he
denies killing her he denies dismembering her however a postmortem examination of Kim skull conducted once
her head was retrieved from the bay showed no sign of any kind of fracture or violence to the skull meaning his
story is not true it's a it's a lie but not only is a a lie but we also have evidence that shows that you're watching
videos where it's vagina's being stabbed and then her vagina's stabbed 14 times like that's
what kind of coincidence is that MH well and the interesting thing too is as we mentioned not only sticking with his
story that he didn't kill her but also that he didn't dismember her and this is even after divers found a saw with a
blade consistent with whatever tool that was used to dismember Kim Kim's body right so so sometime in late October
2017 the Copenhagen police reported that Peter now was ready to change his story
once again regarding that night in August now alleging that Kim died from carbon monoxide poisoning he said he was
up on the deck of the Nautilus and a carbon monoxide leak down below where Kim was caused by a sudden drop in the
subs air pressure this is what killed her and he states that a vacuum effect kept him from being able to open the
hatch to go down and save Kim by the time he was able to open the hatch he said I found her lifeless on the floor
and I squat next to her and tried to wake her up slapping her cheeks Peter claimed he tried for an hour to lift
Kim's body out of the sub but finally gave up and decided that the only way to get her off of this submarine was to cut
her up so at this point two months after Kim's Death Peter finally admitted to dismembering her body in the bathroom of
the Nautilus using quote whatever tools were around he told the court that he then weighed down and dumped Kim's body
parts and changed his clothes so soon after this partial confession the police found an arm and
coob again it was weighed down with pipes and 8 days after that found another arm in the full indictment of
Peter Manson Pro prosecutors alleged that on August 10th as part of a plan to kill Kim wall Peter brought on board the
submarine the following a saw knife sharpened screwdrivers straps zip ties and pipes there are also reports that
the indictment mentioned a video camera which was missing a memory card and stating Peter bound Kim by the head arms
and legs and then repeatedly Beat hit cut and stabbed her before killing her possibly by choking or cutting her
throat the indictment said right now the trial Captain would begin on March 8th 2018 let's hold up real quick because
how many times how many stories has he told so far four or five uh he's let's say four four seems right is he going to
keep changing the story cuz I mean this show is only an hour long well but this is pretty common place especially with
these kind of Maniacs with these kind of monsters right this guy's a psychopath well what they do is okay they're
they're presented the a story okay this is what what happened and we need an explanation so he offers one up yeah he
goes what happened was and then he just starts lying out of his stupid [ __ ] mouth right that's all he
does right well when evidence is later found and presented to him he Chang then right then he changes the story I mean
let's just go back to the one where he freaked out and didn't know what to do again you call 911 you you you ask for
help you do whatever you can you don't then to say hey well you know now his story basically is you know he must
think that everybody on this Earth is so stupid that they're going to believe this idea that oh well she just she died
and then I I kneeled down beside her and I couldn't do anything so I decided Well
you know that saw that I brought on the boat today let me dismember her uh tie her body uh tie pipes to her body uh
parts so that that they drown and nobody can find them and then I'll never mention her when when they when they
rescue me after I fake drowning My Submarine the fact that this [ __ ] believes that anybody's going to believe
his story I mean it's just and that shows how crazy this individual is well I don't know that he believes anybody
will believe him he doesn't have any other options at this point I mean when when he offers up a story and then they
give him I mean other than confessing yeah it's called you're you're going away for life I'm guessing they don't
have the death penalty no and actually I don't know that they their life in prison might not be the same as our life
in prison this is a don't tell me that this is a country and in a lot of countries out there uh they believe in
Rehabilitation and yeah don't don't believe in that well our country tried that at one point and it didn't work out
very well for us so we don't believe in Rehabilitation as much as we advertise that we do and I think it's for Lessons
Learned well this trial Captain was presided over by one professional judge and two lay judges this was an option
Peter Matson chose and as opposed to a jury trial uh this seems reasonable seems like a likely option for him if he
were to be Tried by a jury they would probably be immediately shocked and horrified what they would learn about
this individual and to be a quick guilty verdict so he's going to take his chances with the judges yeah and just
when I praise him I think I praised them yesterday for putting forth great eort effort and now you're
telling me that this guy could get out of prison well apprehension effort you know
apprehending somebody the effort made forth than that is one thing holding them for the rest of their lives is is a
different thing um we we have to keep in mind too captain we're also might not be
dealing with a normal typical situation and what I mean by that is one we already I can tell I've been listening
we already discussed the incredibly low murder rate in the area where and I'm not trying to I'm not
trying to downplay this or their effort in any manner but in other areas of the world when some when something goes
unsolved for a bit of time the detectives working that case catch another murder case at some point
another file lands on their desk another investigation is to be had and we see that a lot with cases that we've covered
here in the United States and that's why sometimes case go cold because there's just not enough manh hours or people to
work those cases yeah but I mean but this this incident is especially different yeah because I mean it shows
you I mean just shows you how messed up the whole world really is that's the that's the sick thing it's not the whole
world it's not the whole world there's there's a small part of the world a small percentage of people tell me where
right right right but it's everywhere it's happening everywhere well of course right but so just tell me the place that
it's not happening and let me go there well you have to go where there's no people okay well tell me where that's at
cuz I'm going I'm on the break well that's some people are attempting to go to Mars at some point and live and
occupy that space while see in Mars then yeah but if there's more than if there's
some people there at some point there's going to be a Mur great I mean look it's
it's I'll keep doing the show until there's a murder on Mars everywhere that there's cats and birds
a cat kills a bird that's just the way that the world Works what are you trying to say about cats it's the way that the
world works okay so we talking about the trial here Peter stuck to his story about Kim perishing from carbon monoxide
poisoning aboard the submarine but on the stand he was almost seemed delusional at times he was referring to
himself in both the first and third person and frequently switched between Pres present and past tense saying
things like Kim was having the time of her life and Peter is talking a lot and he is happily sharing his dreams with
Kim per the indictment prosecutors argued that Peter had planned the murder furthermore the prosecution intended to
show that Peter intended to make a snuff film directed by him and starring what would later be the victim there were 35
Witnesses in this Tri which lasted 5 weeks so do they believe that he was just faking this nonsense on on the stand or
was this something that they think was happening naturally I think this was happening
naturally I don't have any of their opinions on on this and um this is not a trial to determine his State of Mind
this is simply a trial to determine his guilt and in this situation where you have a guy that appears to be very
guilty and there's evidence as such it's also more important as to what he is in
fact guilty of he's guilty of something what in fact was that and keep in mind it's the premeditated murder that they
are accusing him of so Peter now has an answer as to why there are stab wounds on the Torso and he states that when in
panicked when he was trying to get rid of the body he stabbed the Torso to release the natural gases that would you
know allow the Torso to sink so it wouldn't float up and be found easily found well that's going to make it could
make it difficult for the prosecution to determine how she was killed or if in fact she had died from that carbon
monoxide poisoning as Peter was suggesting what they could find is we have scientists who would testify during
the course of this trial and they would testify stating that there were no toxic
fumes found in the lungs of Kim wall meaning she didn't she didn't breathe anything in that would kill her and they
also testified that while an event like that is possible the event that Peter described is possible one we have to
keep in mind the guy practically built by himself this submarine I mean with the assistance of the the company that
he found founded he built the submarine so he fully understands the way that this thing would operate as well as the
way that defects would take place and accidents could occur so when he gives you a detailed statement of this is how
she died because this happened well he's going to give you something that is likely or or that is a possibility at
least let's say so while the scientists would agree with that possibility the thing that they pointed out is for that
event to have occur heard the way that he stated that there would have had to been some kind
of extreme heat event on the submarine meaning a fire an explosion or something of that nature causing the heat to rise
to such a level that that event occurred well the problem with Peter's story is when they look at the submarine and
evidence found on the submarine it would be obvious if that kind of event occurred to begin with to to to have the
cause effect the domino effect of having this carbon monoxide event take place so
there was no heat there was nothing destroyed by extreme amounts of heat on the submarine so they're able to
practically rule that whole thing out regardless of Peter sticking to his story this show is sponsored by better
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Captain so as the uh trial went on the prosecutors weren't able to fully establish nor prove exactly how Kim wall
died okay now what they could conclude was that at some point air to the lungs stopped so that could be the result of
several different things however all the other evidence Point toward her being murdered by Peter Madson and these
things were as follows one we have people co-workers of his that would testify that those items that the
prosecution states that he brought on board the the saw the screwdrivers knives zip ties things of
that nature all those items that they listed those co-workers suggested and said on the stand these are not items we
would expect somebody to bring onto the sub these were items that you would expect someone to bring if they were
going to murder maybe torture and dismember somebody right so we have that testimony as well as we have the
prosecution who would focus on those the clips from the snuff films the torture porn whatever you want to call it m they
would focus on those clips so people in the courtroom the judges and the journalists that were there they were
forced to watch some of these clips now after a while the judges said hey you you got to stop this we can't just keep
showing these things all day long one us as judges can't sit through this and the
journalist can't handle it as well yeah and and then everybody had to put on boots because Peter kept drooling so
much while they're watching these clips well it's going to be a lot of this kind
of stuff that would lead to the unanimous decision that found him guilty uh and he was guilty on all counts in
the indictment good good so the three major charges were premeditated murder aggravated sexual assault and
desecrating a corpse the judge declared the sentence without hesitation or delay
saying this is a cynical and pre-planned sexual assault of a particularly brutal
nature on a random woman who in connection with her journalistic work accepted an invitation for a sailing
trip on the accused submarine explaining the rare decision to hand down Denmark's most severe
sentence life in prison now again no possibility of pearl well I again it their system is not the same as ours
just to be completely clear this is a rare decision to give out a life sentence and and where I said earlier
that I didn't think he got life what I mean by that is we know even in this country life does not always mean life
right right so even that it's unusual for a life sentence to be handed down for the murder of a single person in
Denmark it's rare because what mean we mean here is prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment serve an average of 16
years they are then entitled to periodic reviews of their sentence beginning at 12 years and usually only serve 16
Denmark places heavy emphasis as we said earlier on Rehabilitation there are currently only 25 inmates serving life
terms in that country and Peter Madson was only the 15th person in 10 years to receive that sentence now there is
another option that may keep Peter mson behind bars for longer this is a term called safe custody so this would be a
legal alternative which would keep him behind bars indefinitely as long as he is deemed dangerous that he cannot be in
society with anybody else so I don't really want to put an estimate on how long Peter will be in prison I don't
feel comfortable or confident in an answer for that because I don't fully understand their sit their system yeah
okay and but I'm just always going to think it's sad that somebody could take somebody's life and then only spend that
short amount of time in prison I just think that's always going to be ridiculous to me well hopefully in this
situation life will mean life and let so let's talk about this for a minute because where we have a country that
really firmly believes in Rehabilitation let's examine our subject the the person that is now serving life
in prison and we know MH we can't say 100% what this guy did we have a pretty darn good idea all right we've we've
we've nailed it down pretty good I think yeah but even if parts of his story are
true that the initial something initially happened that was you know to cause her death which I
don't believe at all but if let's just say that is true then his warped sick mind decided that it'd be better to cut
her up and then again type type Hypes around her body parts to try to make him sink yeah nobody believes his story or I
I don't even think people believe parts of his story and the the sentence and the guilty verdict shows that
so in regards to him and what drove him to this level of Madness yeah was it nature or was it nurture and that's
always been the argument in most of these cases and I think if we for me to give my full opinion on
that I need to tell you a little bit more about Peter Madson um and what we do know about him
we do know that he was raised by an alcoholic abusive father it seems as though though that Peter might not have
been the object of that abuse meaning there were Step Brothers that he had that seemed to receive quite a bit of
abuse as well I'm sorry as where Peter was not abused by this man who was his actual father and we have these
statements by him as well as his family members but the relationship between him
and his father was weird and so was that of him and his mother mhm the mother left his father because of the abuse to
the children to her other three sons and she took her three sons and protected them and they went to live with her she
left Peter with with his father where Peter's father Carl encouraged Peter's fascination with rockets submarines and
balloons even building him a workshop at their home Peter began experimenting with explosives when he was just 6 years
old and by the time he was 15 Peter was devoted exclusively to his projects foregoing his studies and social life
this is when he started his own company Danish Space Academy to which he took to
stating studying engineering now he studied engineering but he quit once he determined that he
already knew enough to build submarines and Rockets and we would see this type of behavior from Peter throughout his
earlier years where he would go into like these apprenticeships for welding Refrigeration engineering things that he
would need to know and learn to further his creation of submarines and Rockets well in every situation he would
determine at some point that he knew more than the mentor that he was learning from I love these guys are
smarter than everybody the smartest guy in the room all the time well eventually
in 2004 Peter and a former NASA contractor founded Copenhagen suborbitals so this was set up so that
they could build submarines and they started this off in a rusty hanger Peter actually moved into the hanger where he
lived and worked on these projects fulltime suborbitals built its first submarine uh the Freya which was a minor
success but then they went on to build this uc3 na Nautilus that we had discussed so
many times right the submarine the privately funded this is basically a a a DIY submarine mhm so we see this company
that he founded have great success in 2004 this is what makes him that local minor celebrity that we talked about but
in 201 Copenhagen suborbitals they launched the heat 1X rocket now this made Peter a
much bigger celebrity Peter became known as Denmark in Denmark as Rocket Madson by all accounts the attention and praise
made Madson even more strange so look the basics of this is Captain this dude he was already a little weird but
this dude quickly became more strange and more weird and not in a good way right so when he had his first success
back in 2004 this is when he also became heavily involved in group sex BDSM and swinger events and he also described
himself at that time as a stist and Auto erotically active whatever that means but in
2014 I'm sorry 2011 with this new success and as stated he's becoming even more strange he's starting to get into
arguments and not getting along with any of his colleagues or business partners the success went to his head he's an
egomaniac okay and he starts alienating himself from his colleagues and he accused his business partner of
prioritizing his family over their work projects so in 2014 when he had a falling out with the
suborbitals partners they booted him out of the company so in retaliation he started his own competing company rocket
Madson space lab in a hanger across the pave lot from Copenhagen suborbitals right so in August of 2017 Peter was
they're competing all right both of them are trying to launch a space rocket at about the same time but Peter's married
at this point right yes he he had an open marriage mhm and I don't know that he spent a whole lot of time with his
wife right so we have both she was open to not sleeping with him well we have both of these companies competing to be
the first to send their rocket into space MH okay and in 2017 in August leading up to the murder of Ken Wall
Peter starts experiencing some setbacks with his projects so the launch of his new rocket the alpha was planned for
August 26th this was supposed to mean a significant victory for Peter over his Rivals suborbitals but cash flow
problems and other problems stopped the launch suborbitals was also testing a rocket at that same week so a huge
emotional setback extremely upsetting for Peter an egomaniac and his company appeared to his old company anyway
appeared to be getting the better of him yeah and he's right there to see it well
after this cancellation many people would describe Peter's Behavior as manic and then we have a situation that
on August 10th the same day that Kim wall gets on the submarine with him earlier that day he's doing an interview
with a woman named Emma Sullivan who is interviewing him for a documentary she described him as having a quote strange
energy and during the interview Peter stated that he might be Psychopathic what I'm getting at with
all of this Captain is we see this individual and we've seen this from other individuals that would go on to
commit serial murder we see a guy that obviously has fantasies that involve violence and sex at the same time very
violent sexual acts and this is a these are fantasies that we can trace back as early as 2004 per what is found on his
computer and phone right but let's come on let's just assume that he was having some of these before he started looking
stuff up on that computer and phone well probably something drove him to that but
I I don't need to assume anything cuz we know at the very least 2004 and then we
have 13 years of this continued behavior of these fantasies building and building
inside of this guy as well as something else that's occurring during this time his world that he spent so much time to
create it's kind of falling apart and he is obviously unraveling people see this
it starts with him losing the company that he co-founded with another individual right and then it starts then
it continues with the failure of his new company the only way his new company was
going to be successful in his mind was if it defeated his old company right and when that came
into into the vision of I'm not going to beat these guys there are things that I
can't get over this is the trigger this is the trigger that they often talk about when we have people that have
violent sexual fantasies that there's something that will trigger them it's it could be a divorce could be a loss of a
loved one or Breaking Point a breaking point exactly and this I think was his breaking point and what we see here is
that at some point in August he starts inviting women that he had met kind of randomly you know per chance people that
wanted to interview him people that he met while he was out walking around or out in public that he barely knew these
people he's inviting these women by themselves on the submarine with him by himself and I think think what we see
here is where Ted Bundy had his Volkswagen uh VW Bug and and we talked about that being as much of a murder
weapon as any of the other weapons that he used to kill these women MH this is the making to me of a serial killer this
is Peter Madson who has already decided that his life is worth a lot more than yours and mine and everybody else is out
there that's cuz he's smarter than everybody his sexual fantasy are that important that they mean more to him
than you me and everybody else out there and if he can get you on his submarine and get you a loan and unfortunately Kim
wall was a very smart driven person she was on that submarine because of her work because of her passion and it's a
SI it's a situation of unfortunately she was in the wrong place at the wrong time
well what sucks too is that she talked to him before She interviewed him before earlier that day
and and thought he was acting strange yeah straight up says he's weird pretty much to to her boyfriend and
unfortunately this guy this this monster in the making was casting a net time and
time again and hoping to catch something and he got her alone on that submarine and I tell you what if he if he could
have got away with this there's no doubt no doubt in my mind 100% he would have attempted to do the same thing time and
time again until he was caught well and because of the stress and because of these different breaking points I also
and also you know people that were saying that he's possibly manic or some level of manic that's probably what got
him caught and so we should be thankful for that because you know to create these things and go on these Endeavors
you have to be somewhat intelligent and so I think if he was if Peter was in his
right mind and maybe not manic and he knew he could actually plan it out better this is a individual especially
with the tools of having Rockets having submarines that this individual could probably get away with multiple murders
before getting caught and I believe because of his the stress level and His Manic states that that's probably what
led him to getting caught and thank God he wasn't good at murder because like you like you said and like I said he
would have continued to do this now there are a lot of people law enforcement included that after he was
put away that they started looking at Old cases to say hey was this just one that he really screwed up and we caught
him for has he been doing this before and they couldn't find much of a connection there was one that did uh
that they thought could possibly be connected but it would have been from when he was about 15 or 16 years old my
just thought thoughts my general thoughts here of what I can see on the surface is he didn't do a very good job um with
this one MH and I don't think I don't think he had the ability like you said and that's what got him caught he didn't
have the ability to to cover this up and thank God for that right but his mental
health could have been more intact when he was 15 maybe wasn't having any signs of manic episodes and and could he
possibly do something where he could get away with it for that long I would say possible well my hopes are that when
they give him his first review after 12 years and then again every time he gets a review after that please keep in mind
that had he gotten away with this he would have continued to do this and therefore that makes him that fall into
that quote safe custody category where he is a danger to society and he needs to be kept from Society well and if he
is having manic episodes those don't always go away they can go away so but if he keeps showing signs of that
talking about himself in third person um you know talking about situations where
he was there but as if he's not there I think those are going to be deterrents on letting him
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Kim Wall /// Part 2 /// 240

Part 2 of 2

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August 2017 - Denmark; A very strange disappearance leads to an arrest and a gruesome discovery. Kim Wall is a smart, driven young woman with a passion for journalism. She travels the world in search of her next big story. She has been to some very dangerous corners of the earth. No one knew that the greatest danger she would find was living in her extremely safe neighborhood. This case has been called “the most spectacular murder case in Danish history.” Tonight we supply some answers to this strange case and offer up some questions of our own. Beer of the Week - Lorelei Barrel Aged Extra Maple by Omnipollo Brewing Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of

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Brief Summary

Kim Wall's murder by Peter Madsen is examined, detailing the investigation, trial, and shocking evidence against him.

Key points

Kim Wall's Disappearance. In August 2017, Kim Wall vanished after boarding a submarine with Peter Madsen.
Discovery of Kim's Torso. A cyclist found Kim's naked torso 11 days after her disappearance, leading to a police investigation.
Evidence Against Peter Madsen. Prosecutors presented evidence of premeditated murder, including a plan to kill Kim Wall.
Trial Begins for Peter Madsen. The trial for Peter Madsen began in March 2018, focusing on premeditated murder charges.
Peter Madsen's Conflicting Stories. Peter Madsen changed his story multiple times regarding Kim's death, raising suspicion.
Peter Madson's Guilty Verdict. Peter Madson was found guilty of premeditated murder, aggravated sexual assault, and desecrating a corpse.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This beer is amazing!

Beer review

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Tension

75/ 100High tension

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