Heather Dawn Church /// Part 2 /// 340 | Forensic Files

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crime it took almost 2 years to find the remains of Heather Church in the crime scene where the remains were found off
offered no clues as to who the perpetrator of this abduction and murder could be the Daily Sentinel ran an
article with the headline girls remains found after 2year search this from the Associated Press the article labeled
Timothy belbeck the man who found her skull and reported his findings as a transient camper and states the death
was ruled a homicide and the coroner's report indicates Heather suffered blunt force trial trama to the Head this
article has some interesting pieces of information in here as well it goes on to say Heather was last seen wearing
white cotton pajamas and no shoes she had laid out an outfit for school and her bedding was rumbled as if she was
asleep until something had awakened her enter Lou Smith who is Lou Smith Captain he's a
detective that likes to climb in and out of window he's probably best known for his
involvement in The John Bay Ramsey case I think he's on the smaller side too captain that might make give him the the
extra superability of climbing in and out of Windows you think so I don't think he looks small to me but I didn't
either but I read some story where he decided when he first became a police officer he needed to bulk up because he
was like I want to say he was like five 5 6 to maybe 5'7 but like 150 lbs when he first started on the force he got
into some situation where he said a a large woman was attempting to drag him across the street and she was having
some success and that's when he decided I got to start going to the gym I got to
beef up if I'm going to be yeah I think that was my mother well you know I like to use the
term super cop loose is certainly a super cop in his career he worked on more than 200 murder cases in which a
suspect had been arrested and tried for their crimes he was a detective with the
Colorado Springs Police Department he joined the force way back in 1966 and worked his way all the way up
to the rank of detective Lou helped to get the arrest and conviction of spree killer Freddy Glenn and his accompl
Michael Corbett Glenn was found guilty of murdering three people in 1975 yeah one of them being uh Karen
Grammer that's correct this included the killing of Karen Grammer younger sister
of actor Kelsey Grammer he was also involved in the arrest and conviction of Michael Corbett
this was Freddy Glenn's accomplice so together we have Glenn who was found guilty of murdering three
people in 1975 Glenn and Corbett together were responsible for a total of five deaths in and around Colorado
Springs back in 1975 so now I would like to introduce you to another man John Anderson now I'm
not talking about money in the bank and simal wind John Anderson no I'm talking about the John Anderson who I will deem
to be another Super cop Anderson was sworn in in January of 1995 as El Paso County's new sheriff and with him came
Lou SMI Anderson wanted two things one for L smitht to take over as Captain of detectives in El Paso County and two to
solve Heather Church's case which by this time 1995 was looking like it would never be
solved in the over three years of the case law enforcement really only developed per evidence and interviews a
few suspects some of the members of Heather's church at one point turned on one another Heather's Sunday school
teacher and a family friend were questioned extensively as were Heather's parents
everyone police in the FBI looked at either had an ironclad Alibi passed a polygraph test or both again this
included Heather's parents Diane and Mike definitely a lot of Suspicion towards the parents I think when you
have a case like this where you have no leads no clues that's kind of where the direction
that it just naturally takes on yeah now in 1995 L SMI took over as Captain of detectives and he took over the Heather
Church investigation Lou is pretty old school and he said that regardless of what
other people thought that they knew about the case Mike and Diane Church were not suspects he said he knew very
early on in his investigation that they together nor separate were involved in any way after meeting them both and
speaking with them separately Smith believed they were truly victims and far too good of people to do something so
terrible and it's not clear whether or not they took polygraph test and passed or not right the the
information I have that came from the sheriff's apartment states that they did okay now Smith also offered up after
speaking with the parents he offered up some of his expert opinions on the case to the parents of Heather he told them
he would catch the man that killed her he said he believed the perpetrator was an intelligent male and that his name
was already in the case File he also believed unlike the FBI that the motive behind why the per entered the church
home may not have been sexual Smith wanted to start his investigation at the very beginning in reviewing the case he
noted the recovery of fingerprints from the crime scene Captain Schmidt recognized that although the prince had
been forwarded to both the FBI and the CBI he was aware that there were in fact 92 separate automated fingerprint
identification systems or aphis for short so here we are once more captain at the Laton fingerprints left on the
master bedroom window screen from inside Heather Church's house yeah it seems like that's the biggest piece of
evidence we have forensics expert Thomas Carney was the man who educated Smith on
the trouble with the fingerprint systems in fact Carney he came from Miami he worked in law enfor m in Miami he was
the first person to compile a list of the aphis systems in the United States Canada and Mexico in Short North America
as said this number as of 1995 was 92 of these systems Carney put together 92 sets of black and white
photographs of the prints that they found on the window screen and this was to be mailed off to all 92 automated
finger printing identification systems in March of 1995 they got the call they were waiting
on for years so sound the trumpets captain we're we're still working on the trumpets near at the garage that was
good taking lessons that was good but I mean we we need some actual real trumpets uh they got a match in fact
they got two matches one in California and one in Louisiana so 92 of these different places they send off these
photographs two of them call back and say hey we got a match for you on those fingerprints that you sent us mhm the
fingerprints were matched to 42-year-old felon Robert Charles Brown who lived at
16660 eastonville Road and he was one of the church's nearest Neighbors he lived in a double wi about a half a
mile from the Church's home where he lived with his wife Brown worked at Tree Farm located on his property where he
lived Brown was arrested for burglary and vehicle theft in Louisiana where he served 10 months he was also charged
with something in California and I believe he may have served a little bit of time there but his record he has a
record but it's for nothing nearly as heinous as a uction or murder in 1987 his parole was transferred from
Louisiana to the state of Colorado the fingerprints found inside the crime scene at the church's house
were submitted and resubmitted over the years to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation but for whatever reason
when Brown when his parole was transferred his Prince were never entered into the CBI system so even
though they're checking them there's nothing there to match them to 4 days after they got the match they
arrested Brown outside of a store in town and brought him to the station for questioning the first thing that they
wanted to know of course did Brown know the churches he said No in fact he said he was a loner and he and his wife did
not socialize much but we know they're neighbors yeah but he lives a half a mile away right
so again it's when we talk about these different cases it's important to always kind of keep in mind the lay of the land
they own that big property he owned a decent sized property as well he was what I believe is reported to be their
nearest neighbor but that's half a mile away they really wanted to know had he ever been to the church's house and this
would be for any reason at all right no he said in fact the closest to to their home that he had ever been was when he
assisted a delivery truck that broke down on the side of the road near the church's long driveway out to the road
that is exactly what they wanted to hear got him got him Captain right got him yeah because if if this guy was known if
Robert Brown was known to do like handywork in the area and they go hey were you ever in their house oh yeah
well I was wasn't friends with them but I I did some painting for them oh where did you do the painting at oh master
bedroom the other bed you know what I mean right like then it put it gives you a gives a reason why the fingerprint
should be there or could be there yeah and really that that is so key to this case as you just stated he has given no
reason at all for his fingerprints to be there let alone be inside of the home well mind you that's cuz he's a dumbass
where where the prince were found were found technically inside the home yeah cuz the here's the thing is they ask you
about your neighbors you you know that this girl was abducted right so if you just start lying and saying well yeah
you know I went over there a couple times mhm and and I'm sure they asked the the family and and I'm sure they
didn't but I don't know that'd be covering your ass a little bit let's get into that a
bit because th this part of the story is quite interesting I think really when they arrested him at
this store that was not their intention they actually wanted to set up um they wanted to catch him meaning they wanted
to get him in a conversation asking him questions about the church homicide and and catch him that way but
catch him off guard meaning that that he doesn't know that they are looking specifically at him right so once they
get the match on the fingerprints their idea is okay let's send a handful of officers and detectives out into the
area and let's knock on everybody's door again and let's ask these sets of questions that way he thinks it's all
this is just all routine you know we're we're doing a r routine questioning of everybody in the area we're not
specifically looking at you right this this is where they were hoping that he would say I've never been to their house
and the problem was when they sent all the officers out into the area he was already under surveillance at that
point he left to go shopping and at some point they got nervous the law enforcement got nervous and said we have
to arrest this guy they were really worried that when they Place him in cuffs and say look you're being arrested
for the murder of Heather Dawn Church right that as you said he's a dumbass that he would wise up and go oh yeah I I
was there to do yard work or whatever yeah babysit him yeah because even even if the church has said no that's not the
truth now she said she said you yeah you have his word against theirs yeah now the reason why police believe that
he wasn't smart enough to come up with with something like that yeah no actually they think that that he was so
convinced that he never left his fingerprints there meaning they believed that he was wearing gloves during the
abduction and he may have taken them off very briefly to replace the the screen right and very likely he's being
questioned about this 3 years later he remembers that he wore gloves to the crime scene but doesn't remember taking
them off for a very brief time yeah that makes a lot of sense so he's so surprised by this whole deal of him
leaving fingerprints there that he tells them straight up he's he's without a lawyer at this point in the questioning
and he's telling them there's no way possible that those are my fingerprints he said I don't doubt that you found
fingerprints there I doubt that they're mine and they say well we have your fingerprints back from when you were
arrested in Louisiana and we we checked them they got a match in Louisiana we got a match with your old fingerprints
in California he goes well that's well and good but people make mistakes my fingerprints could have been mixed up
with somebody else's you know what what you're testing are pictures he's saying take my fingerprints right now and test
them again because I'm telling you my fingerprints were not there that's how adamant he was and they did so and they
checked it again right so now you have that in your back pocket as the detectives are questioning uh Robert
Charles Brown yeah and during all of this remember he's he's asking for everything to be tested again take new
fingerprints they're doing all this stuff test it again and while they're doing this they talk him into a
polygraph test yeah and later he's told he failed the test and he's told again doesn't matter how many times we
fingerprint you and run the test they are still matching the set that we found on the window screen at the Church's
home right the other thing too Captain is during these interviews while they're being conducted the police were at
Brown's home they're search ing the place they already had a search warrant before they arrested it there they found
girls clothing and girls jewelry stuffed into a pillowcase he has no children this is a bit unexplained what
this stuff was or where it came from what is explained is that none of it belonged to
Heather they also probably it's probably trophies of some kind yeah so they found stolen items
from another another home that was another residence that was kind of nearby MH so these could have just been
things that they don't have to be from another murder victim they could be things that he stole from somebody's
home they found this is just straight up bizarre I've never heard of this before but I do know
people steal these types of things I've just never found one in any of the cases
we've covered they found a stolen Bobcat earth mover machine worth $188,000 now Captain you and I both know
that is not a small machine mhm that's a large thing to have stolen from someone
apparently I don't know why he stole it he must have used it for some kind of work keep in mind he had that tree farm
he had a big plot of land there's some suspicions as to what he could have used it for but his his
wife was aware that he stole this large machine she said he used it the only thing that she knew that he
used it for was he dug a big hole with it drove the machine into the hole and then attempted to cover it
up attempted to bury it or just cover it up bury the machine uh as said he they found stolen
items from another house or other residences in the area this is you know some of the more alarming stuff they
found newspaper clippings a lot of them regarding Heather Church's case MH he was in fact arrested that day and
charged with murder he would be offered eventually actually pretty quickly after
the arrest he was offered a deal an offer to his public defender this would be so he could avoid
the death penalty and this likely may have been the best case scenario for the investigators seeing that at this point
when they make this offer all they have as far as evidence goes is his fingerprints right later on they did get
Brown's wife to admit that he was not home the night Heather vanished so we have a fingerprint and we have no solid
Alibi correct now he Brown maintained his innocence when he spoke with the police but he did ultimately end up
pleading guilty to murder this so he could avoid the death penalty and trade he got life in
prison this move was quite interesting the prosecutor they didn't really think that
that brown or his attorney would take the bait take the plea deal right because again such little evidence they
really made a strong push and what they did was they were vetting this guy they were calling where they knew he was from
this guy had moved around a lot they called his hometown where he lived for a long period of time and realized that
former neighbors of his one of them had gone missing and one of them was murdered oh great both of those cases
unsolved in fact the missing woman on top of on top of Heather Church's case correct yeah and so what their threat
was we'll call it a threat their threat to the the defense attorney was he he should probably hurry up and plead
guilty to this before we find another body right so ultimately that's what took place the prosecutor did check with
Heather's parents first to make sure that they were okay with them making an offer Heather's mother Diane said if he
is willing to plead guilty she is willing to let him sit in prison for the rest of his
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freedom all right welcome back cheers everybody cheers crispy Colonel oo cheers to you through the
glass the crispiest they've separated us I feel like I'm in solitary confinement
well that's where you belong all I I can't see you all I do is hear voices mhm so while Robert Brown never conf
confessed to the detectives and never confessed in court it's believed that he confessed to Susan Lawrence this was his
placement counselor and what he told her she passed along to authorities so let's
go through this what what she told the authorities he said to her she said that he Brown enjoyed roaming his
neighborhood at night looking for houses to burglarize sometimes he would take things sometimes he wouldn't when he
went to the church's residence there were two lights on inside the house and no cars in the
driveway and he did not think that anyone was home he was surprised by Heather Church inside the house and
killing her he says was unintentional Brown said that he did Kill Heather inside the home he placed
one hand over her mouth and one hand on her neck he demonstrated this to Miss Lawrence when he's telling her this
story and said he recalled doing this for only a couple of seconds he thought but now believes it must have been for a
longer period of time he assumed that he had strangled her because she was dead when it was
over now Mrs Lawrence asked Brown if it was possible that that he had broke her neck and to which he replied that that
was a possibility yeah cuz I mean Brown's a pretty big guy he's like 63 roughly yeah yeah Robert Brown said
he placed Heather Church's body in the back of his pickup truck and drove to the mountains where he disposed of the
body he denied having any sexual contact with Heather Church all right so bam boom
bang case closed yep get my coat time to tip my hat and ride nope you're you're locked up you're
right captain that is not it because there's much more to the story in 1996 Robert Charles Brown who is supposed to
be rotting away in his cell in Colorado State Corrections he receives a letter this is
an anonymous letter the letter says you got screwed and here's why there was something wrong with Colorado
state law and from July 9th to September 20th of 1999 [ __ ] let's keep going I was good
up to September 20th of 1991 Colorado was without a death penalty this is truly bizarre we've
never come across anything like this in any of our cases mhm so what that means is when the night when she was abducted
when Heather was removed from the home technically the state of Colorado for that very brief time period less than 90
days didn't have the death penalty does not have the death penalty so the offer then of hey plead guilty and we take the
death penalty off the table it was never on the table because it didn't exist during the the time frame in which she
disappeared [ __ ] offer yeah so this gets pointed out to him and now we have the appeals process but who
whoever's pointing it out to this scumbag yeah is also a scumbag Let It Be man you got screwed well good right
unless it was one of those things where um the guy was trying to rub it in his face you know like you're so stupid you
didn't know this oh you know what I mean but you know what you got screwed because the case took so many years to
apprehend somebody right I don't think that the prosecutors did anything malicious here I don't think
they were aware either no like you said it was a small window like 90-day window
yeah it's just one of these weird inconsistencies one of these weird little glitches that was that was going on
they're unaware of it so any anyway now we have the appeals process he's got a pretty damn good appeal when you think
about it hey I played guilty to something that only because the death penalty was being thrown in my face
in the face in the face well the current prosecutor the the one that now has to face these
appeals comes up with a great plan he says to the court system look she was abducted on the 17th this whole
thing with with the no death penalty expired on the 20th that's just a couple days later mhm he's also saying it took
us all this time who solved the case she was found over 20 mi away from her home
where she was abducted we the prosecutor's office believed that the crime was sexual in
nature that the motive was sexual nature and based off of all of that evidence and theory and thought it is our
argument that we cannot say for certain that her murder occurred on the 17th that it's very likely he may have kept
her for a couple of days and the murder occurred on the 20th or even later to this the appeals Courts at
least two of them that I could find they agreed with that they said look you can't prove the date of when she was
killed and if you do you know he's in all kinds of trouble and all kinds of mess here because now if you go back to
um he proves what day she was killed then he proves that he killed her and he boom he still ends up with life in
prison right so I I think that's just truly fascinating and the prosecutor later came out
said look I thought my argument was a good one but a weak one it was intelligent argument but it was a very
weak one he thought that they would lose turns out that they win this thing got all the way up to I believe the Colorado
Supreme Court state supreme court to which I think they tossed it out and said we don't even want to look at this
thing truly when you you have a child killer nobody wants this guy to get out on some
kind of tech technicality well yeah and on top of that you think he's possibly linked to other crimes that's
correct and that's still not the end of our story Captain because on March 30th 2000 Robert Brown sent an unsolicited
letter to the Fourth Judicial District Attorney's Office in Colorado Springs the letter was addressed to whom
it may concern inside this letter and I don't have the full letter itself I don't know
if the full letter has ever been released to the public but there is within this letter a statement from
Brown that says this is very cryptic seven sacred virgins entombed side by side those less worthy are
scattered wide the letter taunted investigators claiming the the score is you1 the other team
48 the obvious reference here being that he was arrested tried and convicted of the murder of Heather Dawn church right
they scored one the other team must be him Robert Brown he's got a score of 48 so
obviously he's implying that he's involved in other crimes possibly other murders
another statement included in this letter says if you were to drive to the end zone in a white Trans Am the score
could be 9 to 48 that would complete your homec court sphere ah let go a real dumbass Brown closed the letter by
demanding that he not be contacted now there was a second letter that was sent so he sent a letter and then at the
end he said don't contact me and here's another letter they sent another letter yeah the second letter for my
understanding I believe even less of that letter has been uh reported over the years maybe maybe
even some of the statements I just read could have been from the second letter itself it's all very cryptic his
writings and what has been released is it's not clear if it's if some of the letters are just
short and they were released in their entirety and then other letters were longer and only bits and pieces were
actually released but what we do know with the second letter there that one included a map and
we would later learn that the map was he took a piece of paper put it over over a
map like in an atlas and made the outlines of several different states and so he outlined the state of
Washington California Colorado New Mexico Oklahoma Texas Arkansas Mississippi and
Louisiana and inside each one of those states that he outlined he put a number this number totaling up to 48 so
almost indicating that with inside this state for instance state of Washington he wrote the number
one I've killed one person in the state of Colorado he put the number nine in Louisiana the number being the highest
of all the numbers was 17 mhm this Captain I believe probably would have went nowhere because he's writing to the
District Attorney's Office in Colorado Springs they don't seem to have any interest in corresponding with inmate
Robert Brown turns out that about two years later A Man Named Charlie Hess is going
to send a letter to Robert Brown he doesn't know that Robert Brown has in fact sent these letters already to the
district attorney's office Charlie Hess is a former CIA agent and he was working
with a guy and I say working they were kind of doing this as as a hobby but Charlie hes along with some other
individuals were working with Lou SMI all these guys were pretty much retired by this time what they would do is they
would get together about once a week they would hang out they would eat pastries drink coffee smoke cigarettes
and they would talk about old cases mhm and really what they were focusing on was they were wanting to take on some
cold cases all of these individuals were involved in law enforcement or the CIA at some time this would be a good group
of people to volunteer to take on a cold case now during some of their discussions it comes up that one of the
individuals wants to know hey Lou or anybody here in our group has anybody worked in putting away a
murderer that they believe was truly a very dangerous person that was was a serial killer was one of these uh people
that had numbers you know multiple murders that they had committed L Smith says to his group I always felt Robert
Charles Brown was a serial killer and so much so that when we were working to put
him away we were aware that way back in Louisiana a neighbor of his one went missing and another neighbor was found
dead was found murdered so there's already a bit of a connection I I've seen a lot of people
cover this portion of the story and a lot of people have done a good job in doing so but what is usually
Lo lost in this Heather Church's case is usually kind of a a by the way or a way
to Kickstart the whole story of Robert Brown in his Communications with these Cold Case volunteer investigators right
and often it's reported that Lou Smith just had some kind of six sense that he was uh it was a gut feeling that he had
been working the these types of cases so long that he just had a sick sense that
Robert Brown was a serial killer he had he had a sense that Robert Brown was a serial killer because they were aware of
a missing former neighbor of his and a murdered former neighbor of his doesn't take much to you know you don't have to
have a a six sense to come up with that Heather Dawn church was a neighbor of his as well so you see a similar type of
Mo it's really a bit of a shame that when we talk about these cases from Louisiana I find it strange that within
just a handful of months these two cases take place we have a murder somebody goes missing both of these
individuals were neighbors of his but they were neighbors within the same apartment complex as him and further
Robert Brown worked as the maintenance man for this apartment complex his brother I believe was the owner or the
landlord of these uh Apartments it's really strange to me that they weren't able to make any type
of connection I think with the missing woman with her case that the husband was Under Suspicion and that would make an
obvious reason why you wouldn't connect them but with with the missing woman she apparently had the doors had
the locks on her doors changed the day before by the maintenance man of the apartment complex who in fact was Robert
Brown it seems like there would have been a connection to some of these individuals yeah and even though Robert
Brown claimed that he didn't want to be contacted there would be a bunch of corresponding emails for
years yeah well letters right and so it it's almost like Charlie H kind of befriended Robert Charles Brown and got
him to open up we have a man who says he doesn't want to talk it is in Charlie's
Arsenal though that he is aware that look this is the guy that opened up the dialogue he started the dialogue on some
psychological level he does want to talk and so I'm going to work that angle and
see what I can get from him it's interesting that you have a guy a serial killer locked up and I will I will say
serial killer because I believe him to be just that but we have someone like we've seen so many times before now he's
coming out playing this game of I know more than you know and here's all the other bad things that I've done but oh
I'm not going to tell you all the bad things that I've done I'm going to hint and nudge and wink you through it and
you got to figure it out on your own it's all really truly I mean it's a lot of it I feel is
[ __ ] and I don't really want to waste anybody's time here by going through all of the correspondence cuz as
you said this goes on for quite some time and really all Charles Hess wants to do is he wants to sit down and speak
with Robert Brown face to face that's what Charlie Hess did in the CIA back in the day of Vietnam War he was somebody
that interviewed people during wartime he gave lie detector tests during wartime he is extremely good at
communicating with people getting people to open up getting people to tell the story tell the truth and figuring out
what are the truths and what are the lies with inside their story he eventually through befriending
or at least letting Robert Charles Brown believe that the two are friends got brown to allow him to speak with him
face to face and this all it did was open up correspondant because Brown was giving little hints and winks and nudges
saying I've killed roughly like you said Captain I've killed 48 people 47 of them
you don't know about and some of their talks and correspondence he had the number as high as
51 but he was really giving them nothing to go off of he's like look I um they keep telling them you got to tell us
more if you want us to clear any of these cases we can't do anything with this and if you don't give us more
information we don't think you're serious we think that either you're making this [ __ ] up or you've lost it
and you believe it to be true and it's not true at all mhm eventually they get him to talk and
give more details on some of these cases where he will go you know maybe give a nickname of an individual maybe give a
spot where he uh dumped the body so on and so forth and this leads them to throughout months and years of
working on this this leads them to starting to complete some of the story now mind you all of the states that he
listed that he drew on that map he did live in those States and they could find evidence that he in fact lived in those
States at one point and the three states that he listed as having the highest number of kills interestingly enough are
the three states where he spent the most time so there was some stuff there was some meat on the bone in the beginning
for these investigators to believe that there could be some truth to Robert Brown's story now we know with these
Psychopaths and these narcissists none of this would come without him getting something in return for offering up this
information he was unhappy with the way that he was being treated he did not like where he was being housed and he
also didn't feel that he was receiving proper medical treatment basically he wanted to transfer and again Charlie H
pushed him and said we can't help you unless you help us eventually through a lot of back and forth and through a lot
of working and a lot of hard work what we end up getting is we get another solved case because in July of
2006 Brown pled guilty to the murder of Rosio sper this he was sentenced to life
without the possibility of parole for 40 years now unfortunately this did not come without brown getting something in
return Brown was then transferred to the state of Minnesota to serve out his time
there what's very weird here Captain is I found an interview with Heather Church's father Mike and I
believe it was from 2015 or 16 where he had a complaint and a very valid complaint he saying because of
Brown's manipulation of the system because he's working these deals to get moved and and plead guilty to an
unsolved case that he did not know where the killer of his daughter was being housed
and he felt that that was unfair and I agree 100% because at some point Brown was
moved and it wasn't public knowledge to know where he was located I found a letter that is believed I have
plenty of reason to believe that it was written by Robert Brown where he states that at that time he was housed in
Florida in the State of Florida and there he is complaining that they riged on the plea agreement that he
was supposed to be in Minnesota and after being in Minnesota for 4 years they transferred him to Florida where he
does not want to be and I hope he stays where he does not want to be welcome to Florida the thing captain that we have
here and I do want to say I am very um the thing that I want to say here Captain is that I think that is great
the work that Charlie H Lou Smith and all of their little Cold Case volunteer work that they did is fantastic yeah I
don't want to say it's all [ __ ] and it's all or not because they did get a conviction in the Rosio SP case and that
was so important not just to get another case off the books not just to get some
answers but for so many years her husband was thought to be the one that was guilty of her disappearance and we
now know that that's not true MH and that guy was a victim himself not just from being the husband of a of murder
victim but he was a victim of being thought of as being guilty of her disappearance and
her murder for so many years so I'm very glad and very happy that they got that one off the books I do think that a lot
of Brown's communication and a lot of what he hints at we talk about a number of 48 possible victims I think that
that's total bogus bogus I think it's a bogus number that he came up with we're talking about he's saying this in the
early 2000s and at the time I believe a number of 48 would put him at the highest number for
a serial killer that's who he wants to be he's never been anybody important he wants to be somebody important and he
does not mind the attention why because he is so guilty of Heather Don Church's murder and now he's locked up in a place
he does not want to be for life and he has nothing to do he is to put it quite frankly he is bored everything that he
did when he was on the outside a lot of it being illegal a lot of of it being perverted deviate Behavior he cannot do
now and so he's come up with some kind of game to pass the time he's come up with a number that makes him important
when he is not I also think that part of this game is he feels screwed by the prosecutor by
the District Attorney's Office of Colorado that because he as you said was dumb enough to one not give a good
reason why he would have been at the church's house MH two didn't lawyer up three agreed to a polygraph test in
which he failed and then four pleas guilty so he can avoid the death penalty yet there
was no death penalty yeah so welcome to Florida dumbass I think he feels tricked
because he was he was an idiot he was stupid he was a [ __ ] he feels tricked and now his way of
retaliating is to send them on this wild goose chase keep in mind who did he direct his letter to he didn't send it
to the media he didn't send it to the El Paso County Sheriff's Office he sent it
to the district attorney's office the same district attorney's office that was able to put him in prison for life for
the death for the murder of Heather Dawn Church now I do believe with inside this
48 this magical number of 48 Captain I do believe that there are some other victims in there of note of of of note
of ones that he actually provided some detailed information this would be the uh murder
of Katherine Hayes from Louisiana Wanda Hudson and F self also of Louisiana Melody bush
and Nidia Mendoza both from Texas and then Lisa low who was killed in Arkansas so while I do feel that a lot of his
stuff is probably [ __ ] I would love to see some further movement on some of these other cases where there was some
detailed information provided by Robert Brown unfortunately L Smith has passed away he passed away he had the cancer
and by the time the cancer was founded it spread to his entire body yeah but I agree a lot of good work here and uh
Robert Charles Brown deserves any bad thing that's coming his way the other thing about his if you want to try to
call them confessions regarding these murders even the ones where he offers detailed information what you will see
is him minimizing his involvement him minimizing his role in the murder of these individuals I personally believe
that most of his murders if not all of them were sexual in nature they they seem to be that that was the motive the
driving force for his actions I don't know about when he set out to enter the home to Heather Dawn
Church's house but what I will say here regarding his bullsh [ __ ] confession that he offered up to his placement
counselor what do you see there straight up minimizes his involvement in the whole situation it makes it it's all so
confusing to him he killed her he didn't even really know why he killed her he didn't he didn't intend to kill her and
I think that is absolute BS I think that there's a lot of evidence that will show
that there was no reason for him to remove her from that house his confession somewhat makes it sound
like she surprised him and he reacted and before he could realize what was going on she was dead there's evidence
to suggest that she may have been sleeping when he came upon her that night right and if he was afraid or got
scared all of a sudden because he entered a home that he thought was empty and he reacted and that was the
result you just can't believe that because if she was sleeping he had the opportunity to be afraid and then leave
the home after he was in the home and when he left there the only thing that was missing from that home was that
little [Music] girl a lot of really good sources for this case here Captain one of the better
ones is the newspaper The Gazette they covered this case pretty extensive Ely over the years and did a very good job
one of the best sources is this week's recommended reading it's a book titled the devil's right-hand man the true
story of serial killer Robert Charles Brown you can write that title down now so you can pick that up and find out
more if you're busy just go to our website later go to our recommended page go to truecrime garage.com we will have
that title there for you so you can make that selection and add that to your library we want to thank everybody for
listening we want to thank everybody for the wonderful festar reviews we want to
thank you all for telling your friends about True Crime garage until next time be good be kind and don't
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Heather Dawn Church /// Part 2 /// 340

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September 17th, 1991 Heather Dawn Church vanishes. She was abducted from her home in Black Forest, Colorado. Join as we go year by year through the investigation. Beer of the Week - Killer Cupcake Panda by Flying Monkey Craft Brewery Garage Grade 4 and 3 quarter bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

The episode details the murder of Heather Church, the investigation by detectives, and Robert Charles Brown's eventual confession and plea deal.

Key points

Quality Sleep with Ashley. Ashley offers top mattress brands at winning prices with special financing options.
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True Crime Garage Introduction. Join hosts Nick and Adam as they dive into this week's true crime story.
Heather Church Case Unfolds. It took almost 2 years to find Heather Church's remains, leading to a complex investigation.
Detective Lou Smith's Insights. Detective Lou Smith believes Heather's parents are innocent and vows to solve the case.
The Threat to Plead Guilty. A prosecutor warns the defense attorney to plead guilty before more bodies are found.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

He was a detective with the Colorado Springs Police Department.

Introduction of Lou Smith

6:42WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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