Keith Mann Jr. /// Part 2 /// 577 | Forensic Files

thank you [Music] [Music] thank you foreign garage wherever you are whatever you're
doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who
has only cried twice in his life once when he was seven when he was hit by a bus and then again when he heard that
little Sebastian had passed ladies and gentlemen the captain yeah little Sebastian your Ten Thousand Candles in
the wind it's good to be seen and good to see you dry your eyes thanks for listening thanks for telling my friends
[Music] today we are drinking Shiner Tex hex bruja's Brew IPA by the good Folks at
Shiner I'm told bruja means which so this is the Tex hex which is brew and this is one deliciously refreshing IPA
with cactus water feel the healing powers of the cacti my friends ABV 7 garage grade four and a half bottle caps
out of five now let's give some praise and thank yous to our good friends that helped us out with this week's show
first up a cheers to sue in Smithfield Utah and a big we like your jib goes to Linda
an Eastman Wisconsin next up we have a cheers to our friends and Parts Unknown and it goes out to Margie D cheers to
you another shout out to Jennifer V and Parts Unknown and make sure look if you have toe fungus
there's signs up don't take showers in the public shower stalls if you have toe fungus and we also have a cheers to
Paula M who is a big long time supporter of tcd and last but certainly not least
it cheers to our friend down south longtime friend of the show John H in Mississippi everybody we just mentioned
went to True Crime garage.com and they clicked on the Donate button and for that we are grateful yeah BW double
arguing get you some hey you want to support the show go to the store Page True Crime
garage.com click on the store Page buy yourself a t-shirt I'll fold it up myself I'll even give a little cuddle
before I send it out we got shorts for the guys and the gals and everything in between so check that
out at truecrime garage.com and Colonel that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair
grab a beer let's talk some true crime thank you foreign [Music] I have guilt feeling the thing that I
think most about is not being there to help Keith uh if something happened to him and
if he did pull this car over here um and he went with someone or whatever not being there to help him
you don't know how much guilt I have not being able to help him um as far as them polygraphing me or doing whatever
they need to do no I don't have a problem with it at all my motto is to find him I need to find him I'm I'm
almost 65 years old I've got health problems I want to find my son and I want to find it before I pass from
this Earth so no I don't have a problem with him whatever they want to do these new
polygraphs are different than what I took before uh you're hooked up different they've used a uh like a
computer like a laptop I think is what it was and then put something under your feet I don't
remember doing that on the first one I took but they asked they he just detective Laughlin the first one I took
they asked a lot of questions yes or no's and this last one's the same way yes or no but there was all five
questions that they asked us so he doesn't get into what I did on the first one but
these five questions they ask you if you I think that if you have something to do
with this disappearance or know something it's going to show my name is John Laughlin I'm a detective
with the Wichita Falls Police Department crimes against persons unit I'm currently assigned to the Cold Case
position which is how I got to know Keith's case and his family and while we're talking today I've been with uh
Wichita Falls this is my 26th year I've been in the crimes against persons unit this is my 14th year in this unit so
it's uh felony crimes against persons so Robbery Homicide sexual assault drive-by
shooting unattended deaths things of those nature uh those those kinds of cases are what
we investigate um I am the only Cold Case Investigator that our agency has and I am uh
still required or part of my duties is to pull a week of on-call in the Capers unit so whatever comes up then uh
capital murder or anything uh it kind of takes away of course the time needed to
work on these cold cases and uh this is a pretty voluminous case Keith's case has been ongoing since the original
report was made [Music] thank you there you heard it we have Keith's father Greg talking about the guilt that
he has experienced over the years after the loss of his son followed up by the current detective who is active on this
still unsolved case but again a very active not a cold case that is detective Laughlin with the Wichita Falls Police
Department explaining what it is that he does in the very difficult job that he has on the Cold Case squad for me here
Captain what I look at when I see this case and after the details that we've gone through it really boils down to two
points for me two points of interest for the colonel one being do we look at Chris and Michelle two people that we
know that were with Keith that night before he went missing maybe even one of the last people that seen him before he
went missing or do we look toward this quote unquote Meetup or this meeting that he had at some point that night
because what we have here sitting in front of us is the cold hard fact that we know that Keith did hang out
with Chris and Michelle that night we know that they went somewhere we know this because a we have Keith telling his
fiancee on the phone after work that he was meeting up with some friends he was going out with some friends
follow that up by we have the surveillance footage that shows the three of them at the gas station Keith
purchasing snacks using the fiance's Fina credit card Chris purchasing beer for the three of them and then later we
have Chris and Michelle's statements to police saying we dropped Keith off in front of his apartment in the parking
lot at approximately 11 45 p.m on that night we did not see him enter his apartment but we saw him walking up the
stairs to his apartment apparently at some point during that evening Keith told Chris and Michelle
that he was meeting up with someone that he had to meet someone at 12 15 a.m on May 11th and that is why he needed to
get home at a decent time so we have two points here of interest for me Captain either a we should be
looking in the direction of Chris and Michelle maybe they made up the meeting or B
whoever he was meeting that night wherever they were meeting that night whatever they were meeting about is
responsible for Keith's disappearance I know Keith is a younger guy but to me this is a very odd time to be meeting
somebody up at 12 15. so when we take a look at the situation after we know Keith to be missing
there are some other points that are very interesting to me here as well one the vehicle his vehicle that that he was
driving that night which was later found in the church parking lot near his family's home his parents home
approximately a mile away from his apartment that's a very interesting angle to this case the other interesting
angle is his apartment and we said that the apartment was found locked by Carrie
the following day according to the notes I have Captain the deadbolt was locked so somebody would have had to use a key
from the outside of the apartment to lock that door we also found the beer cans on the countertop
there were clothes on the bathroom floor the bed had not been slept in this all according to the police reports we did
ask the detective about that area specifically and his answer was this that the apartment complex this was not
a high crime area back in 1997 and still is not a high crime area to this day so
they do not believe that anything happened to Keith in the parking lot going into his apartment or coming out
of his apartment that night police seem to be really honing in on the idea that whatever happened to Keith is directly
that there is a direct connection from Keith to somebody that he knew I agree with law enforcement because one of his
friends dropping him off didn't see anything or see anybody that was suspicious it's a safe area
but also the car being moved into a different location is it clear whether or not his friends
saw the car parked at his apartment before they left that's a really good question and that is one
that that's what I'm here for right that's one that we spoke to the detective about and they they did not
recall seeing the vehicle however the thing that's weird about that is it sounds to me like that was not a
question that was asked of them right now this case is 25 years old and they've been interviewed several times
over this time period so if that question wasn't asked back then it gets really dicey on them having memory of
seeing the vehicle that night or not later when they're interviewed years later well again it becomes more tricky
too because if you drop me off at my house you know what my vehicle is when he's driving multiple vehicles from
the dealership that you might not even they might not even known what vehicle to look for correct and the other thing
here too is I gotta believe that Chris probably knew what kind of vehicle that Keith was
driving just because I could see that naturally coming up in conversation because they both worked at the
dealership you know he comes to pick him up in a Nissan Pathfinder from from the
dealership Keith was driving the Mustang that may have come up in conversation at
some point during the evening but again you're hitting on something there I I have a feeling that that vehicle must
have been in that parking lot when Keith returned because where I'm kind of left
sitting is trying to figure out did Keith drive that vehicle and place it in that
parking lot near his parents home or did something happen to Keith and somebody else drove it and left it there
what's really tricky here for me is there would be a limited number of people that would know that Keith would
use that parking space so that right there would already shrink your suspect pull a bit
but what doesn't make a lot of sense to me is if I did something terrible to Keith
clearly I'm trying to cover that up his body and remains have been so well concealed that nobody has found him for
25 years why would I place the vehicle in a place that I know that's going to be found and associated
with Keith unless I'm hoping that somebody locks onto the idea that maybe Keith moved it there
himself and that has a direct relation to this meeting that was going to take place
or possibly he's meeting some bad dudes and he doesn't want them knowing where he lives so hey I'll meet you at this
church and I think you might have something there Captain because his parents seem to feel the same way that
either somebody that knew he used to park there placed it there in a in some weird way to try to throw the
investigation off or like you said maybe Keith drove the vehicle there himself he doesn't want
these people to know where he lives for one reason or another and gets into their vehicle goes off
with them whatever happened to Keith happens later away from the vehicle but maybe he leaves it there as some
kind of signal to Mom and Dad that hey I I place this vehicle here and I went off
to do something and you need to come looking for me we should also touch on one thing before we move too far along
here today Captain one is that the all the things and facts that we know about after Keith disappeared so he goes
missing on that Sunday and it's all agreed upon by law enforcement and all involved that he's missing sometime
between 11 45 p.m on that Saturday night and before 6 a.m when his vehicle is first spotted in that parking lot on
Sunday morning later we would learn that Keith left approximately 100 in his savings account
and he did have paychecks coming from the vehicles that he sold leading up to the time of his disappearance so he had
money coming in those paychecks were never picked up we also know that he used his fiance's Fina credit card at
the gas station when he was with his friends during the evening before his disappearance but there has never been
any unaccounted for transactions on her account with that card since that night does that make you speculate that maybe
he was having some kind of money issues if he's using his girlfriend's credit card for a purchase he very well could
have had some money issues and that's something that we spoke to his parents and law enforcement about
and we kind of get a mixed bag of of answers here so the general thought is this he did have money coming in he was
having success selling vehicles at work but we have the idea that he didn't have
any cash on hand because he asked for a gasoline voucher and it's believed that he used that voucher to fill up the
Mustang's gas tank on that Saturday evening we know that he used the fina gas card to purchase some snacks
and a gas station that Saturday evening but he had money coming in the thing here though too is we say money problems
but Keith didn't have a whole lot of bills he didn't have a whole lot of obligations he didn't have a vehicle
that he had to pay for right because he's using the vehicles from the dealership his biggest expense was his
new apartment which was approximately about five hundred dollars a month so not a super Hefty rent
on his apartment and he doesn't really have any other bills remember he went to school on a
scholarship so while he might have had limited amount of money coming in he also had a
very limited amount of money going out and I don't know how his pay worked maybe it was one of those situations
where he's getting a very low dollar an hour wage and then Commission on top or maybe
he's just commissioning those things you know maybe only and those types of jobs sometimes only
pay out the commission once a month uh who knows so yeah money's coming in right now
so yeah he has a job and he's making money but when he's is he actually going to receive that money again I keep going
back to this very basic idea you got to cut these things down to the most simplest ideas sometimes and here I am
left with the idea that he hung out with Chris and Michelle and they said that he was meeting
someone at 12 15 so either one of two things happened in my mind here either Chris and Michelle made up this meeting
and they are responsible for his disappearance or they dropped him off exactly like they said that night at 11
45 pm Keith had some kind of mysterious meeting with who we don't know where that's a good question what's the
meeting about an even better question we don't know the answers to that if in fact Chris and Michelle are telling the
truth then we have to believe that this meeting is probably responsible for the reason why Keith vanished so we wanted
to know from detective Laughlin if the people that Wichita Falls Police Department have interviewed over the
years if they have been Cooperative with the investigation here's his answer yes
and that's a yes and no of course uh this is because it's such a voluminous list
um there's going to be there's lots and lots of people that have been Cooperative from the beginning the last
two people that were with Keith have been Cooperative from the jump uh they were interviewed separately without
hesitation uh took past the polygraph exam they didn't have anything to do with his disappearance or know where he
might be which is of course that's where everybody's going to look is uh who are
the last people to see him um but just because they may have been the last persons to see him or report to
the police that they saw him obviously if something nefarious happened to Keith then then technically they were not the
last people to see him whoever did something to Keith was the last person or persons to see him
so there have been uh more persons on this long list of people to go back over and talk to that have been
uh cooperative within the limitation of memory you know it's just something that um at that time
in their life or even now wasn't as significant incident or issue they'll tell you everything that they can
remember about it but there's just only so far that they could go but they're still willing to cooperate and then
there have been others that have not um they've either feigned cooperation that said yeah absolutely I want to help
you and then didn't follow through or follow up um so there's still more people to talk
to and there's still more work to be done I I do believe there are people um that were within this North Texas
community at the time that teeth that Keith went missing that know something um and it's just a matter of time before
we identify them and identify what if any knowledge they have or involvement they have so you think that Chris and
Michelle have been truthful but has there been anybody that can confirm their story about that night yes they
have been uh truthful and Cooperative from the beginning as I said um they would have been first persons at
the initial investigators talked with um and Then followed up with a polygraph exam which they uh agreed and um Chris
took one and once he took his and passed his he was Michelle was Chris's girlfriend and so she she knew Keith
because because Chris knew him and Chris would hang out they were co-workers they
worked together Chris and and Keith and so she would have known him through through that Arrangement and been around
him whenever he was around visiting with Chris so once Chris had passed his polygraph um and with the the reported
activity of them all three being together they they didn't even um ask or get Michelle to take a
polygraph it's not as if she wouldn't or she didn't it's just they didn't see a need once uh Chris had agreed taking his
and passed it they were able to cooperate what they said based on their timeline of activity of course
um just to make a quick rundown on I'm not sure how much of it will be covered in in your presentation but Chris and
Keith worked together at the Ford dealership that day I had previously I think I when I had spoken to you before
I may have even given you an incorrect timeline there that he'd worked from 9 A.M to 9 p.m he actually worked from 9
A.M to 6 p.m um and when he got off work at six he took this demo 96 red Ford Mustang home
to his apartment he only lived in that apartment it for less than a month he moved in in April so it's just a little
over a month hey had he been in that apartment and Chris took home this Nissan Pathfinder
as a demo and came over with Michelle to Keith's apartment and it would have been
around 9 30 9 40ish in the evening when they came over and it was a plan to get together they're going to go riding
around they're going to go uh stop by a few different parties and just hang out with you know young
people do this all the time again two colleges in our town It's Not Unusual at all for college kids or even uh
seniors in high school to run around and hang out hang out at different people's
places for different parties on the weekend so they stopped by a convenience store
and visional investigators found the charge receipt receipt that uh Keith had used there to make a purchase and they
found the video recording that he was there to make that purchase they bought some beer and they went riding around
when they took him back to his apartment they made the quick stop at a car wash to hose off all the mud that had been on
their uh their Pathfinder they went off-roading by the lake after they stopped by a party
they were hosing the mud off and at some point Keith makes mention to them during the evening that uh he
needed to be home because he was expecting to meet up with somebody later on and so
they took him back to the apartment uh they dropped him in the parking lot they saw him go up the stairs but they didn't
watch him go into his apartment and they left um later on when Carrie keeps girlfriend
at the time got to Wichita Falls and got to the apartment the next morning or next
afternoon uh she had found some beers on the counter just as Chris and Michelle had said Hey whenever we dropped him off
he took one that he was already had open and he took a couple more for later on she found those there in the apartment
um they she found clothing that had mud on it where he had gotten out of the truck
to help wash it off and gotten some mud onto his pants and stuff she found that there in the apartment and she noted
that the bed had not been slept in so the sheets the bed was made hadn't been pulled down there had been no
Impressions that somebody had laid in that bed or slept there and that's kind of where the whole thing
started once Carrie found that on the afternoon of uh Sunday May the 11th that's when she
started calling around and checking with friends and and talking to he's father and stepmother
and even you know even they at the time thought well he might have tied one on and slept it
off at somebody else's place whoever he met up with um you know it could have just been he
went out partying with somebody else and he had too much to drink so he stayed at
wherever he was at and they they checked at a few places they thought he might be
and didn't didn't find anybody that had seen him and didn't find him and it wasn't until
um the following morning which would have been Monday the 13th that it's like okay
you know Keith would have at least checked in by now he's got to be at work today
um we're concerned and that's when the police got notified [Music] thank you [Music]
[Music] all right we are back thank you for the support make sure you subscribe to the
podcast and cheers to everybody and make sure that you join us back here in the garage next week because we are going to
have a very special and exciting announcement on next week's show so you will not want to miss that trust me
and before we draw any of our own conclusions here in the garage we wanted to present to you some more answers from
the active detective on Keith's case and a follow-up question to the previous question was that we know according to
law enforcement that Chris Michelle and Carrie his fiancee as well as Keith's family have all been Cooperative with
the investigation as far as law enforcement is concerned we wanted to know if there were other people other
friends other acquaintances that were involved in his life around the time of his disappearance if they were in fact
Cooperative with police and their investigation this would include anybody that would be in the Wichita Falls area
that was a friend or acquaintance of Keith's also former High School buddies of his yeah though yeah when the ranger
when DPS got involved they uh they were able to locate a good chunk of all the different folks that know him even since
I've had it as a follow-up case I've I've talked to some of his friends um yeah there hasn't again there's
there's been a handful of people that are either difficult to track down or locate doesn't mean they're
uncooperative we're just having a hard time finding them there's been others that we have located that are no longer
cooperating um so there there are folks from Keith's past that whether they know something
and they're just not sharing it or they had some kind of involvement in it it's still yet to be determined and still be
an investigated there's a couple key pieces of information that are kind of hidden in those answers a little bit and
we'll make them clear right here so when they're doing their investigation when Wichita Falls Police Department are
digging through Keith's life and the timeline leading up to his disappearance one thing we learned in one of those
answers is that the timeline that's been available to the public might be different
than the actual timeline of the events that we know that went down or that law enforcement knows that went down the big
difference being that it's always been reported in the public forum that Keith was at work from 9am to 9 00 pm on that
Saturday and then he goes missing after he hangs out with his friends what the detective said there which changes that
big time is that he is saying their information shows that Keith was at work from 9am to 6 p.m so we now have an
additional three hours of that evening that we don't know exactly what was going on we don't have answers to fill
in the blanks of what was happening between that time period of 6 pm and 9 30 p.m when he was picked up by Chris
and Michelle there are a couple of things that we do know that occurred that day but it's hard to feel confident
about the time the time the times when these events occurred on that day knowing that our
times have shifted already on that day so we know that after work that he gassed up the Mustang and we also know
that he spoke with his fiancee at some point via a telephone call so we know those two things happen it just gets
very difficult Captain to put a Time marker on both of those items when we now have an additional three hours to
fill in that timeline on that Saturday what we have to remember about Keith is that he went away for college but now
he's back so he's back at his old stomping grounds four years of high school there playing sports doing well
pretty popular guy so now that Circle of individuals that we have to look at is getting even bigger and we know that
when he was back in town he was hanging out with guys he used to hang out with in high school yeah and that's really
interesting to me here Captain because again it sounds like law enforcement believe Chris and Michelle's version of
the events and that's that they dropped him off and he had a meeting with somebody after they dropped him off who
could that person be we don't know but now that we know that police have these other people that they are aware that he
was hanging out with that he was probably going out with in the evenings that now they have people that they can
look at to see who he possibly was meeting with that night and again I still think that this boils down to
either a Chris and Michelle know what happened to Keith or the person or persons that he was meeting after
they dropped him off know what happened to Keith well let's throw a little wrench into this whole scenario though
this could be a big Wrench It depends on who you talk to well yes I agree so the rumor was that Keith was starting
to gamble it's not really clear with who correct that's a really tricky thing here
because what we are told is that his parents this is something that they were not aware of they didn't know that Keith
was gambling on basketball that's the detail that they're able to fill in that Keith was gambling on basketball around
the same time that he went missing you brought up a good point we don't know with who was this going on with people
he knew from the car dealership at Ron Roberts Ford was this going on with his friends that he's hanging out with in in
the evenings after work or is it going on with both groups it wouldn't be unheard of for a young
man to be gambling on sports with his friends or gambling with his co-workers on Sports especially when we're talking
about a car dealership or sales people that's kind of it's a bit of a gamble itself that occupation when you're
living off of a commission check do we have any speculation on how much money he was betting well one thing that's
really interesting to me when when we're trying to figure out the details of this
idea because now you bring in to a whole separate mix of people that he could have been meeting with
that night after Chris and Michelle dropped him off could this meeting have to do simply with his gambling could it
have been a friend of a friend or somebody that he didn't really know or a bookie somebody that he was going
through to make these bets we know that it's been reported that he was betting on basketball and again his
parents didn't learn this until quite some time after he went missing the police found this during the course of
their investigation and interviewing people that knew Keith one thing that we do know that took
place is that at some point Keith tells his fiancee that he had made a wager on on some basketball
bats or a basketball bet he had placed a wager or Wagers and that he was going if he won he would have
enough money to pay their rent for a couple or a few months it's a little unclear 25 years later what his exact
words were that could be a lot of cheddar this brings up the obvious question of how well do we think that
the people that worked with Keith at Ron Roberts Ford were interviewed and vetted
at the time when this investigation first kicked off we do know from law enforcement that they really took a good
hard look at these individuals in 1997 and then in 2002 when the state got involved in the investigation as well we
wanted to hear it from the detective how well were these individuals at Ron Roberts Ford interviewed early in this
investigation yeah I trust uh implicitly that the investigators that worked before me I do not question any of their
work and and what they did with their interviews and the people that did take and pass polygraphs back then and how
they vetted that I I'm confident in in what in their work um but I will do just as I as I was
telling Mike I'm going to go back over this list again and if there's anybody on there even if they've already spoken
to someone I'd like to hear it myself and I'd like to go back over it to make sure that I'm not missing anything
and we do have something new that's going to help us in our investigation as the 25-year anniversary of the day that
Keith went missing is approaching can you fill us in on that detective I have met with our Crime Stoppers coordinator
and he met with the board of directors for our Crime Stoppers and they have agreed to raise the reward for
information leading to the whereabouts of teeth as confirmed through DNA analysis to twenty five thousand dollars
I mean this is a very difficult missing person case because we have timeline that's altered we have
individual stories that are incomplete at best you know we hung out with this guy all night he was supposed to meet
somebody after we dropped him off who was this person he was supposed to meet I don't know I don't remember you have
the new job you have the new fiance you have the new apartment you have him driving different Vehicles again that
that makes it a lot more just the fact that he drove multiple Vehicles makes it that much more
difficult of a case to figure out I think chances are if you're meeting somebody that late at night
it's not for the best of reasons and if what his fiance is saying is true and he could have won a bunch of money
that meant he bet a bunch of money it didn't seem like he had it in his own pocket at the time
so then does he become collateral damage because he can't pay up well I'd like to say captain that
you hit the nail on the head I can't though because the problem here in this case and it's something you're pointing
out right there very astutely there's too many damn Nails in this case when you look at somebody who goes missing or
they are a victim of a homicide you first want to take a look at what is going on in their life that may be
different from when everything was peaches and cream right and you hit a lot of those Nails on the head the new
apartment the fiance moving in the new job he's running around with some of his old friends from high school and he's
gambling on basketball these are all things that were relatively new in Keith's life that were new leading up to
the point of his disappearance we know that because all of these things took place after he moved back home from
college in January so five months earlier within the last five months all of these things are new
there's a lot of moving pieces and parts in Keith's life and it gets really difficult to narrow
down on what direction we should be looking at so I look at this case and I see just what you said captain could
this this has to do with one of those pieces in my opinion it has to do with either the new job the new apartment the
gambling hanging out with the old crew now let's go to the gambling for a little bit because lucky for all of us
here in the garage we have somebody that's pretty well has has a good experience doing that on
both a legal and illegal front and if law enforcement is listening trust me I have gambled on uh Sports illegally but
it was so long ago that the statute of limitations would never hold up all the charges have expired it was back in
1907. that's correct I lost a fortune now basically they're the the reason why Sports gambling in a casino is so much
better than going through a bookie is because in a casino it all happens the same way you don't have to guess what
the guy is up to how his system is what your costs are what your fees are it's all laid out there for you black and
white you can look at the numbers you can read the newspaper you can find the numbers online and you know exactly what
you're going to pay you know exactly what you're going to win it's very easy you go in you place your bet there's no
problems you go back and you cash in your ticket or you throw it away depending on the outcome of the game and
the outcome of your wager if you are going through a bookie now they all have a slightly different
system but the usual system in the usual way that this works is you're basically
doing a double or nothing gamble every single time so to break it down and make it simple to those that have never
experienced this let's say you were to gamble on a basketball game this afternoon and you liked the Chicago
Bulls Alright you're going to give up some points if you go through a bookie if you go to a casino you can bet the
money line which no points are involved or you could get the points involved that's neither here nor there what we're
going to focus on is the illegal aspect of it because of what law enforcement and his family are saying he was
gambling illegally Sports gambling in 1997 was not legal in the state of Texas so going through a bookie you're
basically going double or nothing so if you were to wager 100 dollars you risk losing all 100
for the chance at winning two hundred dollars now if you lose you have to pay juice
and juice is typically 10 to 15 percent 10 percent being the majority of the time ninety percent of the time you're
gonna pay ten percent juice so you can make a 100 wager with the hope to win two hundred dollars or you can lose your
100 and have to pay an additional ten dollar fee for placing the bet with the bookie makes sense pretty simple right I
am picking up what you're putting down let's go back to Keith's words because when we look at this and and we say all
right maybe this gambling is what caused his disappearance I'm not going to rule
that out completely but I'm just trying to add a little more information to that angle his words to his fiance
was that if I win this bet I'll win enough money to cover the rent for a few months
right she never says what dollar amount he thinks that he's going to win but his words were that I could pay the
rent we won't have to worry about the rent for a few months we know from his family that he was
paying approximately 500 a month for rent so let's use his words we won't have to
pay the rent for a few months three months four months that's fifteen hundred dollars to two
thousand dollars at best that means that his wager with a bookie would have been
for 750 cash or one thousand dollars cash double or nothing plus the juice if he loses what I'm getting at here to me
that does not seem like the amount of money to take someone's life usually these individuals are dead set on
collecting the money it gets really difficult for them to collect the money from you if they kill you
and you don't have that money on your person Keith had money coming in from his job and he was doing good at his job
so my thought goes to maybe the reverse maybe it's not a situation where he was losing this wager and someone came to
collect but what about the reverse where the money is doubled he won and he won and he went to collect and all of a
sudden somebody's not such a good bookie and they don't want to pay him maybe an
altercation breaks out I guess the same would be true on the reverse of that as well but we
should also look at this at the idea of maybe he won that wager I have a difficult time believing that this had
much to do with a basketball bet because it was May 10th when he went missing easy enough for us there's not a whole
lot of basketball that's being played on May 10th it's the NBA playoffs and that's it there's no college basketball
there's no regular season games on May 10th it's all playoff basketball well on that day on Saturday the Bulls
played the Hawks at noon the Jazz played the Lakers at 2 30 P.M this is all Wichita Falls Texas time
one thing that we do know that happened that day again we can't put a Time marker on it because our timeline has
altered based off of the detective's words he called his fiancee spoke with her via telephone after he was off work
on that Saturday that could have been as early as 6 PM could as could have been as late as 9 30
p.m before Chris and Michelle picked him up the problem with that phone call then
becomes this if his words are if we win I can cover the rent for a few months the problem with that statement
regardless of what time we put that phone call at six o'clock at the earliest or 9 30
p.m at the latest both of those games are over for the day so he must have been talking about a
wager that he was going to make on Sunday which doesn't make any sense that it would have anything to do with him
going missing because he went missing Saturday night so the gambling thing certainly throws a
wrench into it but I wonder if it's just a red herring that has nothing to do with why we don't know where he is right
one also makes it again more difficult because it's not like we have somebody coming out and saying we know for a fact
that he was meeting with his bookie or meeting with somebody that was involved in this gambling
and because he went to high school there he has a bunch of old friends that he could have met up with
a bunch of old acquaintances he could have met up with and who's to say he didn't meet up with
a female that night you really have to leave everything on the table here in this case until you can start Crossing
some of them off and that's why I wanted to try to and I know that I didn't completely but try to cross off maybe
this gambling the thing that's difficult though here too captain and I trust detective Laughlin he's got a stellar
record he's a Cold Case detective who has cleared four cases which I don't know that the general public know how
difficult clearing cold cases are but this man and his unit have cleared four and we say unit and he says you know
I've done this with the help of my fellow men and women that I work with but at the same time you hear him say in
his introduction I'm really the only one in this unit so he's done a damn good job over the years clearing these cold
cases but one thing that I have a difficult time with is when I hear that Wichita Falls Falls has cleared
that's kind of his words that we've moved on past Chris and Michelle who we know that he was
seen with that night the reason why I can't move on from Chris and Michelle is the fact that we are told that Chris
took a polygraph test and passed and he's been Cooperative Michelle has been Cooperative but she was never asked to
take a polygraph test don't email me and tell me what big batch of [ __ ] polygraph tests are I understand what
they are what I'm saying is if you are using them to eliminate people then we need to look at it as such one took one
one was not asked to take one the problem with that is if you are going to believe the one that took one
that both of their stories are right based off of that polygraph and their cooperativeness
well then the other person should have taken one too who's to say that this Chris fella that he worked with at Ron
Roberts is in some kind of closeted psychopath that has the ability to untruthfully answer these questions and
pass the polygraph test and the reason why I Circle back to that is because the only people
that say the only people in Keith's entire life that say that he was meeting anyone at all that night was Chris and
Michelle we need to figure out how truthful that item is because if that is truthful then
that means Chris and Michelle had nothing to do with it and whoever Keith was meeting had something to do with his
disappearance now Chris and Michelle would have had the ability to Stage his apartment to make
it look like he had returned that night again it's only Chris and Michelle's word that they dropped off Keith and
that he was walking up to his apartment but we never saw him go in they say he had the meeting they say
they dropped him off the evidence at the room at his apartment makes it appear like Keith came back to the apartment
that night but the problem with that becomes what is the evidence that the door was
locked that there were beers on the counter that there were clothes there were clothes on the bathroom floor the
bed wasn't slept in uh me and the captain could lock that door Place beers on the counter and put
clothing on the bathroom floor or on top of that because there's two of them hey
uh meet me down at the church let's move his vehicle and we have his parents who
said that Chris would have known that Keith parked Vehicles there at that spot now I want to be clear not trying to
point a big giant finger at Chris and Michelle I'm just simply saying that I don't think that we can move on from
either of them yet I think that a good follow-up would be to keep them on the possible list because until until both
have been polygraphed if that's going to be your method of clearing people then we need to polygraph both of these
individuals again I do feel confident in what the detective is telling us so I don't want to stay on this too much the
other outside Factor here is what was going on at Ron Roberts Ford we know that he had worked there for about about
eight weeks before he went missing and there have been rumors about this dealership
throughout Wichita Falls for 25 years for the entirety time for the entire time that Keith has been missing
some of these rumors include that some of the individuals working there were involved in Narcotics were involved in
the movement of drugs maybe even using those vehicles to transport drugs there's even been rumors that when they
built or renovated the place that Keith might be buried at the location these things throw a whole nother big
wrench into this story could it be as simple as Keith took the wrong car that somebody had stashed a
bunch of something in that trunk of that car and Keith signed it out not knowing that
he had taken someone's stash or moved something that he wasn't supposed to move or something that somebody needed
access to right away it's a very difficult case and again there's too many nails to hit the right
one on the head the thing that I can't get over is the movement of the car I'm supposed to meet somebody up again not
clear if it was supposed to be at his new apartment or if he's going somewhere to meet them up but to me oh I'll meet
you at the parking lot of the church that well that's a good place for you to pay me my money or for me to pay you the
money but I don't think he had money he was working at this job for not a long time
these are commission-based jobs or at least a portion of your pay is commission based and so it seems like he
was in some need to get some fast money and whether that was to do a job of moving
drugs or that was through this gambling but I think the movement of the car is really important and because there
are so many different avenues that this investigation could take that is why Wichita Falls Police Department needs
your help that is why more importantly Keith Mann's family you heard his father and his stepmother you heard the emotion
the Heartbreak in their voices that is why his family Keith's family needs your help
because law enforcement is convinced and I am as well and so is the captain that
it's been 25 years and that somebody whoever is responsible for what happened to Keith on that night
they've probably told somebody and there are other people that weren't responsible for what happened to Keith
that know what happened to Keith that they've heard rumors or been told stories and for whatever reason
they've not felt comfortable coming forward with that information Now's the Time it's 25 years later give
the family some hope allowed this father to bring his son home after all of these
years make a phone call or submit your tip online the reward has been increased to
twenty five thousand dollars simply for the location of Keith's remains they don't even have to bring charges
against somebody to pay out that reward they just want to bring Keith home and before we close out
we'll have detective Laughlin tell you the best place to send your information okay straight to me is my my phone
number is 940-761 7762 and that's to the CIS secretaries and then they will transfer the call to
me they can email me my email address Mike you we've exchanged emails so you have
that just john.laughlin wfpd.net and then if they want to remain anonymous uh there's two things they can do they
can call our Crime Stoppers um which is three two two nine eight eight eight or if they're calling uh long distance
the toll-free number I think is uh 1-800-322-9888 we also have a Crime Stoppers website that is WF
crime.com it's always good when we can talk to individuals involved in the cases whether it's law enforcement or
family members so we want to give both of them thanks in this case somebody saw something somebody knows something
somebody heard something please come forward with information [Music] thank you so much for joining us here on
the garage and thank you for being quiet during the taping of the show so everybody else can hear us out there
if you need more True Crime garage for your earballs check out our bonus show it's called off the Record
LeBron James gives it two thumbs up Kristen wig says it's not only smart but it's also sexy so thank you for that
nice compliment get that bonus show on Stitcher premium five dollars a month people and you get
some extra goodness but Colonel do we have any recommended reading for this week uh yes we do
Captain this week we got some recommended listening please listen to the criminology podcast we did this last
year Captain when we teamed up with the missing persons pod when in the same week to bring as much awareness to a
case as we possibly could well we here at the garage and the missing persons pod both covered the page coffee missing
persons case out of the Greater Cleveland area unfortunately Paige is still missing and we still very much
need the Public's help in that one this week check out the criminology podcast hosted by the two mics good friend of
the show of our show Mike Morford he's the Zodiac the man that knows all things zodiac they will be releasing an
in-depth look at the case that we just covered the Keith Mann missing persons case so please please check that out
check out out our friends at the criminology podcast you can find that recommendation and many more on our
recommended page at truecrime garage.com thank you so much for listening make sure you subscribe and until next week
be good be kind and don't live [Music] foreign

Keith Mann Jr. /// Part 2 /// 577

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

20 year old Keith Mann Jr. went missing in the middle of the night. His case is a strange one because of many factors. Keith lived alone in an apartment. There are signs that he was meeting an unknown person that night. His vehicle was found in a strange location but completely undisturbed. Did this meeting really take place? This is just one of the questions that needs to be answered. Keith has been missing now for 25 years. He’s been missing now for more years than he was with us and the Wichita Falls Police Department is determined to bring Keith home for his family and a proper burial. There is a reward in this case for information leading to the finding of Keith’s body. With the 25th anniversary of the date he went missing fast approaching Crime Stoppers has increased the reward to $25,000. Information and tips can be submitted by calling WFPD’s CIS @ 940-761-7762. Or if you wish to remain anonymous you can call Crime Stoppers @ 800-322-9888. Information and tips can also be submitted anonymously online @ WFcrime.com

Beer of the Week - TexHex Bruja’s Brew by Shiner beers

Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of 5

Our show - True Crime Garage “Off the Record” is available only on Stitcher Premium. For a FREE month of listening go to http://stitcherpremium.com/truecrimegarage and use promo code GARAGE

Brief Summary

Keith Mann went missing in 1997; his case remains unsolved, involving friends, gambling, and a cold case investigation.

Key points

A Father's Guilt. Greg expresses deep guilt over not being able to help his son Keith.
The Mysterious Meeting. Keith was supposed to meet someone at 12:15 a.m., raising questions about his disappearance.
The Vehicle's Location. Speculation arises about why Keith's vehicle was found in a known location.
The Investigation Deepens. Law enforcement is revisiting interviews with Keith's acquaintances as new leads emerge.
The Missing Timeline. New evidence suggests Keith's timeline on the night of his disappearance is altered.
Gambling Secrets Revealed. Keith's gambling habits were unknown to his family until after he went missing.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I want to find my son before I pass from this Earth.

A father's desperate plea to find his missing son.

4:10WatchOct 24, 2022

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.