Jeffrey MacDonald /// Part 2 /// 465 | Forensic Files

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what I heard was acid is groovy kill the pigs and I believe I heard that twice at
first that was the first thing that I remember hearing but it's very jumbl because that's mixed up with my wife
screaming Jeff help me and my daughter screaming she looks fly we have a triple homicide we have a
man in the hospital the sole survivor of an attack that went down by four Intruders according to his account what
we have too Captain is a crime scene that does not provide us any obvious signs for a motive we have no signs of a
Breakin right when MPS responded to Jeffrey McDonald's call explaining that his family had been stabbed they arrived
on scene and they found the front door to the apartment locked and secured they found the back door open and if and if
you believe that there was Intruders you go well okay that makes sense but if you
believe there wasn't an intruder it still makes sense because the weapons were found discarded in the backyard one
thing that I do like about this case and it's funny to say you like anything about a triple homicide what I like
about this case from an investigative standpoint is you only have two options okay so if you are out there
listening to this case you maybe you've never heard of this case before and you're thinking what the hell could have
happened here let me clear it up for you real quick one of two things happened either four people entered this home
attempted to murder four people only successfully killed three of them and fled the scene MH or Jeffrey McDonald
killed his family staged the scene and provided law enforcement with a story to cover why he's alive and the three other
members of his family are dead those are your only possibilities here so don't let your imagination run wild it's
either a or b and if you're going to come to a conclusion you have to pick a side and you only have those two sides
to choose from so either The Intruders entered through this back door attempted to kill everybody in side and then fled
leaving the back door open or Jeffrey McDonald killed his family and the instruments that he used to kill them he
opened up the back door tossed them outside and then called the police right and all the weapons that were used like
you said before were found with inside the house they don't believe these were weapons that were taken to the scene of
the crime but again still possible if you have forign Intruders that they use weapons that they they could just be
breaking in they they might not have been planning on murdering anybody and then they go okay well we're here might
as well and we have let's see what we have as weapons that so that could apply for the Intruder Theory also implies for
the husband killing his whole family and you really question again a crime scene
that leaves us with no obvious signs for a motive it doesn't leave us with any obvious signs of a motive that Jeffrey
killed his family I mean this was a family man his children were five and two he had been married for a while this
was okay so maybe his daughter wet the bed we know for a fact that she did wet his side of the bed that's that's an
absolute fact what he decided to do when he noticed that is one of two things either he gets in an argument loses
control and kills his family or he goes to sleep on the couch as he said but when it comes to The
Intruders we don't have a robbery that took place we don't have missing items from the home the only evidence that we
have of anything of motive as far as Intruders would go is this the word pigs Written in
Blood on the headboard Jeffrey McDonald and his family represent the man and and
represent whatever these people have an issue with with society and maybe they're trying to they're trying to
carry out Manson family type murders and attacks MH that really are I mean at the
heart of the Manson family murders was to instill fear and create these race riots and we wouldn't necessarily learn
that 1970 but it's almost these senseless murders right that they're that they're
one and the same as a similar thing that went down in California is now going down in North Carolina these drug crazed
cult hippies are they're willing to break into anyone's home and kill anybody just because and I don't want to
get into a big debate because we're not covering the Manson case but that's not what I believe in the motive was and
that murder let's get into Jeffrey McDonald's description of the four Intruders because as said this only went
down one of two ways the four Intruders did it or Jeffrey McDonald did it this is from his 1970 interview he describes
these four individuals as follows the most famous of the suspects here would be the lone female Intruder she's the
one that people who have followed this case or if you have any awareness of this case you've heard about her she is
really one of the centerpieces of of this case so he describes one blonde female wearing a floppy hat high boots
and a short skirt he says he could not recall the color of the boots although I've seen statements not by McDonald but
I've seen statements put out there that the boots were were either white or brown he says he cannot recall the exact
color of the boots he said that they were wet when he saw the boots that that they were shiny or they appeared to be
wet and that this woman was holding a candle or flashlight in front of her face and she was the one saying that
acid is groovy kill the pigs someone was saying hit him again and he said it might have been the female Intruder who
was saying hit him again this lady he describes as Caucasian female 16 to 25 years of age 5'2 to 5'4 in tall
approximately 110 to 130 lb long light blonde hair hanging to the middle of her back wearing a large floppy hat dark
colored high brown or black fake leather boots possibly either a short skirt or shorts medium build and again holding a
lit candle in front of her body or flashlight the male Intruders he says one was a Caucasian male 18 to 25 years
old 5' 10 in tall 70 to 180 lb medium build wearing a tan jacket clean shaven wearing a cross on a chain around his
neck another one of the male Intruders also Caucasian again 18 to 25 years of age 5' 7 in tall 140 to 150 lb dark hair
slight to medium build Thin Mustache deep set eyes with pock marks on cheeks and Chin wearing a sweatshirt with Hood
dangling down in the back the other Intruder he describes as a black male age 18 to 24 years of age approximately
5' 10 in to 5' 11 in tall 160 to 180 lbs medium build medium complexion he had black hair cut close
to the head and was where well kept wearing an army fat jacket with Sergeant E6 stripes the man was clean shaven and
had a chubby face that's the Brilliance of this case captain again it's one of two things either these four Intruders
killed this family or Jeffrey McDonald killed his family the thing here though Captain that's so fascinating to me
is it's a very detailed account per McDonald what happened that night and who is responsible mhm not only is it
picking one side or the other but you're going to if you believe the Intruder Theory his account is so so
detailed I think that that's where you run into trouble as an investigator on this case because you go he gave such a
detailed account of The Intruders and what went down that night how could he be lying how could he make it up but
then it's also the details are are so much so there that that could be his downfall as well yeah but it's also the
way and we talked about this we talked about this after recording yesterday's show was the way he presents the
evidence it's it's almost like he blurs it well and I think I I did this and I think at that point I was going in and
out of Consciousness and even when he talks about hearing his wife scream that he then thinks he hears his daughter
scream but it was all jumbled it's almost like by blurring the lines a little bit it's setting up a get out of
free jail card so if you tell him well that the the forensic evidence doesn't back that up he can go well I don't know
if my details are 100% correct there's also a problem with that part of his account in my opinion to to say that
there were only four Intruders and that he hears his wife screaming Jeff why are
they doing this to me at the same time that he's being attacked by the four Intruders seems a little difficult to
put that all together if in fact there were only four people that broke into his home that night while we're talking
about the crime scene Captain I want to point something out here and and I want to take something out from the
investigation because I think that this case gets very confusing when you start overlapping all of the evidence the
wouldbe evidence or evidence that nothing is there there and one thing is the footprints okay so one thing that
the MPS immediately questioned in their investigation and Jeffrey McDonald's account of what went down that night is
it had been raining all night when these four Intruders came into the home and McDonald's account as well says he
believed the boots the female boots that he saw were wet soaking wet why were there not wet foot prints all over the
house why was there not mud muddy Footprints and debris you know gra grass and stuff like that inside the home well
this is also a bloody scene so where's the bloody Footprints of of these there was one bloody footprint found inside
the house mhm and it was Jeffrey McDonald's footprint um where he had stepped in Blood and you could see his
his footprint was found there which makes sense going off of his account he woke up after he was attacked he goes
room to room looking to help his family so obviously you would expect to find that there the reason why I say let's go
ahead and toss out the footprint Theory because I don't think that you can conclude that there were Intruders or
not Intruders based off of well we didn't find any wet or muddy Footprints inside the house and I say that because
we have a statement from the military police themselves 14 military police were inside that crime scene while they
were investigating securing the area trying to get help to these four people who were attacked and their own
detectives say we didn't find any Footprints from the MPS so if you didn't find any Footprints from the MPS it's
also logical that you may not find any Footprints from The Intruders correct so I think we can go ahead looking at the
crime scene toss out Footprints or no Footprints as it doesn't help us decide if there were Intruders or not the other
thing I want to go ahead and throw out as well are fingerprints because we have statements
in court documents that make it sound like there were probably some Intruders in the
house because we had 30 30 unidentified fingerprints found inside the McDonald apartment oh that's a lot of a lot of
unidentified fingerprints if you go into most people's homes you are going to find unidentified fingerprints in most
people's homes one thing that's very interesting about this is the daughters they failed to fingerprint the daughters
in their investigation so it's whoopsie isn't it conceivable to believe that two young
people that lived in this house house every day probably left some of their own fingerprints in that house in you
have 30 unidentified fingerprints because you failed to fingerprint two of the people that lived inside of the home
and possibly other acquaintances of the family correct so there again I don't think that
fingerprints with or without them helps us decide if there were Intruders or not
that night so toss out the footprints or lack of footprints toss out the fingerprints and we'll continue through
the evidence and while we're on the suspects here Captain the description of The Intruders provided to us by Jeffrey
McDonald one thing that has really confused this case and made it extremely difficult is that the woman he described
the woman in the floppy hat as she is famously known this woman was found this woman was located a Woman matching that
description was located and questioned and said that on the night of the murders that she had gone out for a ride
with three of her friends her three male friends and they were so far out on drugs that she could not tell you what
she did that night or where she was she could have been at the McDonald House she doesn't know that is what led to the
article 32 hearing of dismissing the cas against Jeffrey McDonald the Army said basically look there's not enough
evidence to try this man right and second of all there's been a woman located that matches the description of
the woman in the floppy hat she cannot account for her whereabouts that night she was on drugs now mind you the Army
kind of decided that whoever committed these triple homicides that they were either mentally insane or hopped up on
drugs right LSD yeah or or what have you tune in so tune in and that's what gets
Difficult about this case Captain they found this woman named Helena stokeley who she matches the description because
she says that she borrowed a hat from a friend a floppy hat borrowed a blonde wig from one of her friends because
Helena stokeley does not have blonde hair she has very dark hair and apparently doesn't own a floppy hat she
says that that night her and her three friends they were out doing drugs and she was so hopped up on drugs can't tell
you exactly what she was doing but she knows she was wearing that blonde wig and that floppy hat then we have
witnesses coming forward that start telling police that Helena stokeley told them that she was somehow involved in
these murders that she was at the McDonald house that night that she had seen how it went down yeah I think
there's a clip of her saying that she at one point yelled assd is groovy kill the pigs she also says that
she believed that she said hit him again once or twice while she was inside the home right which is
two things that Jeffrey claims that these Intruders said mhm so then you go look most of the evidence doesn't point
to their being an intruder most of the evidence points to this dude is guilty he's a piece of [ __ ] for killing his
family right mhm but this is a big piece we we we now we now have this lady that
he's claiming was there when he was attacked and when the murders took place and she's going oh yeah by the way I
borrowed a hat borrowed a wig I was there now I'm telling people Not only was I there but this is what I said now
again I wonder where she could have got this information from is it possible that she got this information from press
releases and there were dozens of witnesses saying that she told them that she was there that night yeah this was
before she was being looked at before her name was known to this case and in the papers well and that gives it more
weight to me because if she was only making statements after she was arrested in question then it to me it would just
be like well here's here's maybe some druggie that's looking for their 15 minutes of fame but she's telling people
this before she's identified as one of The Intruders so in 1970 was the year of the murders and the
year of the article 32 hearings that were conducted by the US Army to decide if we're going to try and and and Court
Marshal Jeffrey McDonald even though it was dismissed it sounds like they wanted to
look at this Helena stokeley person figure out her possible involvement in this whole thing but at the same time
Jeffrey McDonald was still considered a suspect in this case even though they dismissed the case right like I said cuz
the majority of the evidence really points to him so shortly after he gets out of these article 32
hearings he starts doing media interview TV shows uh you heard it there in the trailer in some clips there he goes on
and he starts telling what happened uh on live TV or on these different TV shows and remember Freddy cassab his
father-in-law cassab stood by Jeffrey McDonald however he starts seeing his son-in-law on these TV shows and he
starts hearing the stories that McDonald's telling on these TV shows and he's saying wait a second this isn't
matching up with what some of the stories we've heard from McDonald before there's all these slight variations of
these stories well I'm also assuming that he had some private conversations Jeffrey had some private conversations
with his father-in-law and probably told him some details too so absolutely both
Freddy and Mildred cassab the inlaws Colette's parents testified on Jeffrey McDonald's behalf at the article 32
hearings saying that that they were more emotionally invested in this case than anyone else in the room and neither of
them considered Jeffrey McDonald to be a suspect and I think that that rang loud
and clear to the persons at that article 32 hearing right because essentially they're victims right so you
have victims saying hey we don't think this is the guy so it was their daughter it was their granddaughter right because
a lot of times let's say you have just a little pile of evidence and you go but we don't know if this is enough to
convict him but sometimes those jurors are going to weigh in favor of let's at least charge this guy let's put him on
trial because we have these victims and they need justice but now you have live victims in the courtroom saying we don't
need Justice cuz this isn't the guy what you also have is Jeffrey McDonald moves
out to Long Beach California very quickly after the article 32 hearings are dismissed play on player now we have
Freddy cassab who's starting to see his son-in-law on TV going these his stories
are different he's starting to explain different injuries that he sustained during these attacks that he did not
sustain that cassab knew Jeffrey did not sustain right and so he keeps calling his son-in-law La this is over the
course of months and months and months McDonald's out in California and cassab is getting him on the phone constantly
saying we need to find these four people that killed our family in particular cassab wanted a he wanted to have a copy
of the 2,000 page transcript of the article 32 hearings now cassab wanted this and we would learn this later
Captain but cassab wanted this because he wanted to see what McDonald's statements were to MPS that night he
wanted to see what uh Jeffrey had told investigators all along and compare it to What Jeffrey told him and what he
sees Jeffrey telling in the newspapers currently and when he was on these TV shows he wants to compare all this
Jeffrey McDonald keeps telling cassab that that's not a document that the Army is willing to hand out I've contacted
them multiple times I've asked them for this document it's 2,000 Pages roughly they're not willing to give it to me
right well Freddy cassabs he wasn't born 10 minutes ago eventually he decides to
contact that make him a really young father and grandfather he decides to contact the Army himself and they do in
fact provide him with a copy of the transcript of the article 32 hearings yeah and my issue with this is look you
know you're you're the father-in-law it's not about so much the infidelity whether you think married people should
hook up with other people it's the lying about it right if if if jeffy's wife was
okay with it who am I to say what they do in their marriage but when you're lying about it you're doing something
that she doesn't want to do and then now on top of that his father-in-law is catching him in another lie so all that
all I'm stating is that now we know he's a liar so what else is he lying about Freddy and Mildred cassab wanted to
carry on a family type relationship with Jeffrey McDonald after Colette and the kids were murdered they wanted to carry
on a relationship with their son-in-law he's out in California he kind of he responds to their calls talks to him on
the phone but he doesn't really want much to do with them is what cassab would tell us cab keeps saying we've got
to find out who did this well McDonald tells Freddy we don't have to worry about Colette's murder anymore we don't
have to worry that the police have not found anyone have not arrested anyone because me and a couple of other Green
Beret we tracked down one of the men that was responsible for the murders that night we found him in Texas and we
went there and we did some Street Justice that night we we took care of him you killed him I broke my arm in the
process but me and a couple of guys from the Green Berets we took care of one of
the guys so Freddy cassab you don't have to worry about Colette's murder anymore
we're taking care of it here's my big problem with this again we know he's a liar you know that your son-in-law's a
liar so I don't buy this bag of horseshit Story one bit right right Jeffrey McDonald is not some tough guy
and what it seems to me is you go motive was the motive his daughter taking a piss in his bed no no no no the motive
was he didn't want to be married he didn't want to have kids and he wanted to just sleep with whoever he wanted to
and not have to answer anybody and we have now extra evidence of that what does he do does he try to stay in the
area and try to get Justice for his wife and his daughters no and for his unborn
baby no what does he do he goes out to LA he wants to try to act like a Playboy well he says he goes out there Captain
because he just couldn't continue to live his life the way he was when he was married and when he had children that
that being around his in-laws talking with his in-laws only brought up all of the pain full memories and all of the
nightmares that he was having so he says in his own defense that that is a big portion of why he moved out to
California and why he didn't want to look into the murders the way that Freddy cassab wanted to look into these
murders now when was Freddy cassab born Captain uh not yesterday not 10 minutes ago we don't we didn't have it in our
timeline for when he was born but we know it wasn't 10 minutes ago because he contacts Jeffrey McDonald's employer out
in California remember McDonald told him he took a trip out to Texas with some of
his Green Beret buddies and they took did some Street Justice yeah he told him what dates that he was in Texas cassab
speaks with McDonald's employer and finds out no he was in California and he was at work on those days that he
claimed to have been in Texas solving the murder of his wife wife and daughters yeah yeah liar liar pants on
fire now now hear me out though too think about how how this makes zero sense at all by the way you don't have
to worry about the murders anymore cuz we already took care of one of the pieces of [ __ ] if you're willing to get
a couple of Green Beret and go to some prison Justice and possibly put be put into prison for the rest of your life
for murder you're not going to stop at one of The Intruders you're going to make sure that you find every single one
of The Intruders and you make sure they're dead have you ever seen a Liam niss movie when he he went after the
kidnappers and he killed one and said okay well I know there's another three out there but movie's over folks get
your popcorn and get the [ __ ] out of the theater no that's not what happens Liam
niss gives you a call and says I'm coming for you and he comes after all of them and kills them
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addicts cheers to you and cheers to the goat the colonel Hallelujah to the people on the back some people like to
call you the baby goat I see some of you back there nodding off wake up you know
who I'm talking about yeah Captain I believe that it was Freddy cassab that really was spearheaded this
investigation to finally bringing charges against Jeffrey McDonald the way that this works is McDonald is he's
discharged from the Army so if he would have remained an officer in the Army this would have been an army problem
right they would have had to take this thing to trial and do it their way but once he's discharge he becomes a
civilian again and now it becomes the problem of the local law enforcement agency we have Freddy cassab who he
starts setting up meetings with different Detectives and explaining to them things that they
missed things that Jeffrey McDonald is saying to him that he knows not to be true saying to them why they should be
charging his son-in-law with the murder of his daughter and two granddaughters it's not until
1979 okay they were killed in 1970 the article 32 hearings were in 1970 but in 1979 they finally take Jeffrey McDonald
to trial and he's charged with three counts of murder again because you have the victims pleading for justice correct
what's interesting here is the opening statements by the prosecution they talk in at length about that magazine the
remember the magazine articles that we were talking about in yesterday's show about the Manson family murder
and how Jeffrey McDonald was having a conversation with his friend Lieutenant Harrison about can you believe what's
going on in California can you believe these crazy hippie Cults that are killing people well they discussed that
Esquire magazine at length in the opening statement because they said what happened was Jeffrey McDonald flew off
the handle lost it there was an argument between him and his wife that turned violent at some point McDonald strikes
her in the head with that piece of wood or the club and then he goes on to kill his wife and his two
daughters when he had to come up with a reason of what happened he remembered back to the magazine articles about the
crazy Cults that are breaking into people's homes the drugged out uh insane hippies that are looking for blood acid
is groovy man he remembered those articles and he set up the scene to make it look like that is what went down and
he had the story The Alibi already written for him it was in the Esquire magazine the March 1970 Esquire magazine
issue yeah and it seems believable because it just happened and the trial hasn't even happened yet in the mans and
family murders so if it could happen happen out west why couldn't it happen out east it could happen anywhere
anywhere where there's young people doing drugs that that want to do violence for no reason at all I would
just say it's less likely to happen on Fort Brag or any army facility Well this was not a closed army base this base was
actually open to the public some of them are closed and that that's one thing that you you go okay well if if it went
down the way McDonald's said on a closed base they would have they would have found the people that did this that
night mhm but that's not the situation here I'm just saying what they're going to go on to present Captain is evidence
that McDonald's story it's just not right it's a little hor there there are problems with his story and again you
only have one of two outcomes here he's he's laid the groundwork for us he told us the story the alternative story of
what happened to his family if you don't believe that he killed them you got to believe the other one so they start
tearing apart his story I I don't like the fact that all the weapons or all the instruments of
murder came from with inside the home I also don't like the fact that we have no
Footprints and we have no evidence of fingerprints being from any of these Intruders quote unquote Intruders uh the
other piece of evidence that I really think works against him is he claims that there's this struggle on this fight
and he's being attacked and stabbed inside the home in the family room and they find zero of his shirt
fibers in the family room yes so remember his description of what went down he says at some point his pajama
top must have been pulled up over top of his head it's around his forearms in his
hand and he's using this to fend off the attacker and there's all of these puncture holes in his pajama top he says
that he's using this to fend off them trying to strike him with the ice pick or with the knife he doesn't know it's
kind of a blur You Know It All Happened very quickly but what the captain's pointing out is that attack per Jeffrey
McDonald went down in the living room or family room what have you yeah there are
no fibers torn off fibers from that pajama top found in the living room where you do find pajama top Jeffrey
McDonald PJ top fibers are in the bedrooms right where Colette was killed in the master bedroom
and his daughters who were killed in their bedrooms well and I have an issue with something and it's not really
pointed out in a lot of arguments that you see online but him taking his daughter that wet the bed and putting in
putting her into her bed I know that times were different but a lot of the times you have to clean the kid up
because if not they can get rashes and stuff and so for him to be a doctor and to go okay well I'm going to move her
out of the bed but there's pee and I don't want to clean it up so I'll just sleep on the couch you still need to
clean up your daughter and he's very detailed about so many parts of the story but he never says why I picked up
my daughter and then then I cleaned her off and then I put her to bed well let's
take that fiber evidence a step further because there's something else that lines up with that fiber evidence MH he
says that he was struck in the head with that club or that piece of wood in the living room mhm well we know that some
of the other victims Colette in particular were struck in the head or neck area with that club or that piece
of wood they found splinters little pieces of fragments of the piece of wood right of the club
where did they find those not the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle's father they found them in the bedrooms not in
the living room where he says he was attacked so therefore it didn't happen so again the physical evidence is not
lining up with his story liar liar pants on fire the other issue is he says that
he administered mouth-to-mouth resuscitation on the three victims inside the home yeah this is a good one
that you're pointing out on break out of the three other victims two of them both of his
daughters were found in their beds anybody that's done mouth the mouth even just somebody like me who's just trained
in in CPR and first aid MH I'm no doctor right this guy's a surgeon but you are a
colonel the two daughters are found in their beds and they're found found lying on their sides if he had administered
mouth the mouth to them one would think being a doctor he would know that you're
you should lay them out flat you're going to have to move or manipulate the body once you find them in their
bedrooms lay them flat and administer mouth to mouth that way right makes zero sense so it just doesn't look like he
did what he said that he did let's take it a step further law enforcement the detectives were able to determine that
the pig that was written in blood colets blood on the headboard in the master bedroom mhm whoever wrote that used two
fingers to smear the blood to make the letters and wore gloves when they applied the blood to the headboard mhm
they could tell this because there were no fingerprints they take that a step further they found pieces of surgical
gloves in the master bedroom covered in Colette's blood M they found surgical gloves in the
cabinet in the kitchen that matched up with the pieces of the surgical gloves found in the master bedroom so if you
are willing to believe that four individuals broke into this home or found the door locked unlocked out back
and entered the home managed to go through the home and find the murder weapons pick their weapons while they're
at the scene they also managed to find surgical gloves and decided to put them on after they've already been inside the
home doesn't make a lot of sense does it no it doesn't make any sense and if you
want to take this a step further well and hold on a second CU I want to point out something in this story like I said
I I think this individual Jeffrey smart enough to know how to blur lines mhm I think he's a chronic liar I think he
probably would lie about things that he wouldn't even need to lie about but when
he said in his story something to the effect of that he could tell that one of the the attackers had gloves on now he's
not stating what kind of gloves but he knows he knows that he used surgical gloves wear these and smear the blood so
they can't get my fingerprint but I also have to establish that I know that one of The Intruders have gloves on them at
the trial Captain two very important things happen in this case that stand out from the others one we talked about
all that that evidence we just discussed but he hires a really good defense team
you know this is on par with maybe not the Dream Team like OJ had but these are he's got a whole team of
lawyers and they kind of set up camp together so they're all working day and night on Jeffrey McDonald's defense the
defense team decides to hire Joe mcginness they wanted a an author Joe mcginness was a wellknown author at the
time and they hired him because they wanted to at some point tell the story Jeffrey McDonald's story of how his
family was killed and tell it from the defenses perspective so they hire this author and
have him hold up with their defense team while they're building their case to defend Jeffrey McDonald the other thing
that happens is that the defense team presents a woman to the court Helena stokeley Helena stokeley and they
present witnesses that say that Helena stokeley told them that she was at the crime scene that she was at the McDonald
House and knows what went down that night yeah that she was all hopped up on assd wearing the blonde wig wearing the
floppy dong hat stokeley when she testifies she basically says I don't know where I was that night
I was on drugs me and my friends were on drugs it was not the first night nor was
it the last night that I cannot recall anything that I did that night I'm a golden God I'm on
drugs however the defense is able to point out that she matches given the wig that she would have been wearing given
the floppy hat that she borrowed from a friend she would have matched the description provided by Jeffrey McDonald
but we also don't know exactly when she borrowed that wig or borrowed that hat according to her statements and this was
not presented at court but according to her statements later she says that she borrowed the wig and the hat for the
outing that night and what's weird about Helena stokeley is her story is going to change
and it's going to become more much more difficult as she tells story she starts filling in some of the blanks and then
you start to wonder man it sounds to me like these four Intruders really did enter the house and did carry this out
the short of it is Jeffrey McDonald is convicted of killing his wife and his two daughters convicted of three
homicides but what we would hear throughout time is all of these Witnesses come forward Helena stokeley
told me she was there that night oh her boyfriend at the time was considered to be some kind of violent maniac and he
matches the description of one of the men of the three that could have been with Helena stokeley that night but of
the three that could have been with her is any of them dead well that's what's difficult Helena stokeley the best that
she can provide to anybody for the longest time was I was there that night but I cannot implicate the other three
that were there with me I was there that night I saw what went down but I will not tell you who the three
people were with me that night what one of my problems with her in general is why would you say anything to anyone
about these murders or even say that you were there yes you're saying hey I'm I I
I can't um tell on the others but if these other individuals or these derange druggy Psychopaths they're going
to find you and they're going to kill you you see what I mean mhm I almost feel like yes she doesn't know if she
was there or not and yes she probably has said multiple times asked it his groovy man but I think some of it is
just we see especially in the 70s 7s and the 80s the popularity of these individuals I mean Charles Manson at one
point had to be in the top five icons of the world personalities of the world where everybody has heard that name has
seen his picture could it just be that this individual wanted some kind of notoriety
and it didn't really matter how it was because when push came to shove when when she's being talked when she's
talking to reporters she seems like she's more confident that she was there and that this murder took place when
she's talking to people that matter cuz they could put her in jail seems like she clams up a little bit this case is
very difficult to go through for me to to sit in my chair and try to stay neutral or to try to keep a a level head
because I look at this case and I see appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal filed from the McDonald
Camp I start to wonder how much and how long and how how costly has keep Jeffrey McDonald B to to the state and
then you take it a step further and you go or is this a huge Injustice did these Intruders kill
his family because then you have you have everybody that that are are McDonald backers that say how can you
have multiple Witnesses multiple people come forward that say they believe Helena
stokeley and I I say this to those people it doesn't mean that what she is telling you is the truth just because
you believe her or she told you something it doesn't mean that that is in fact the truth it just means that
that's what she said with Helena stokeley she has always kind of been a big issue a big problem and also a big
reason why the McDonald Camp has so many things to question and to appeal in this
case we talked about the unidentified fingerprints okay well that's a problem for the prosecution we got into the
fibers and the splinters that were not good for McDonald that made him look very guilty however when he was tried it
was agreed upon that there were at least two hairs or two locations inside the crime scene where they found hair that
they could not matched anyone one of those was a blonde synthetic hair a fake hair see that's that's the Helena
stokeley's story was that she borrowed a blonde wig and entered the home that's the problem with this damn story is like
it this is why it's the great debater right is because again you go okay the word Pig Was Written in Blood using
gloves mhm that a surgeon would wear that you found in the house it's more likely that the surgeon that killed
family would know where those gloves were and then he used that as a way to cover up these murders and to then say
it was this this hippie satanic group or whatever right so a piece of evidence like that goes oh well he's definitely
full of [ __ ] right and then they find something like fake hair blonde now here's my my issue with that is that
that seems like a aha aha we guide moment right and if you found that that blonde strand of hair that would come
from possibly a wig then he is totally innocent but you have two daughters and how many Barbies do they have how many
you to me you would have to test that fiber that synthetic hair yeah yeah that synthetic hair against every single My
Little Pony Barbie doll or whatever yeah this is true the other thing that looks really bad for McDonald
and this this is I understand that this case is you know heavily debated I get it the master debator case I can I can
understand why however I think that what we have here and I think it's something
very unique to any of the you know we've covered so many cases Captain I think this is very unique situation where we
have what I can only describe to everyone out there as divine intervention and what that is in the
McDonald case is that you have a family of four and you have a statistical anomaly something that's
extremely rare where each member of the mcdonal family they have a different blood type Colette is a Jeffrey is B
Kimberly is AB and Kristen is O what did they find at the crime scene a lot of blood a lot of the victim's blood when
they figured out and test all the blood in the house they found that the victim's blood is located in places that
it should not be if Jeffrey McDonald's story is correct right so if they found some of his daughter's blood in the
master bedroom that doesn't line up with the story correct the bigger problem for
Jeffrey McDonald is they found his blood in places that it should not be according to his story
another problem is they did not find his blood where it should have been if you were to believe his story and that's
what I call a little bit of divine intervention that we had a situation that is so extremely rare like this
where you could debate it till you're blue in the face but at the end of the day that's God telling us this is what
went down this man murdered his family and he's not going to get away with it so let me rather than go hold on hold on
a second because hold on a second I know what you're saying but if we find blood
like if we found the daughter's blood in the master bedroom one would assume well
his story just doesn't make any sense but it's like but he wouldn't have known what was happening in those rooms and
it's very possible that when they were attacking when The Intruders were attacking the mother that one of the
daughters ran in you see what I'm saying like right and that's why I don't want to go through all of the locations of
where the three dead victims blood was found right because one it would take us an hour to do so and this is information
that is available to anyone out there if you're so inclined to go looking for it
plus would sound like super nerd but I'm going to point out some places that are
just downright obvious where the blood should not be and it you can't explain it away by one victim walking into
another victim's room okay so the most damning place that you're going to find dead victim's blood in this case is in
the living room where he says None of the victims were where he was attacked by himself by three men and a woman is
watching these three men attack Jeffrey McDonald the problem with his story Captain is the location of the victim's
blood so this is Kimberly McDonald's blood and Colette's blood their blood was found on the March 1970 issue of
Esquire magazine why is that such a problem for Jeffrey McD Donald in his story the magazine was sitting on the
coffee table there's supposed to be this big huge struggle between this military
man and three other men in this living room however the only thing that was disrupted in this entire room was the
coffee table it was knocked over when you knock over the coffee table the and police did this test over and over again
it was very difficult for them to get a situation where the coffee table fell on
top of the magazine and pinned the magazine so the magazine is between the edge of the coffee table and the floor
right now they did this reenactment multiple times and it was like one out of out of dozens of times did they get
the coffee table to fall in a way that the magazine fell between the floor and the coffee table okay so it can happen
it could happen right however according to him he's already under attack in the living room that coffee table would have
been knocked over while these men were attacking him mind you nothing else was Disturbed in the living room their blood
is found on that magazine that was pinned to the floor by the coffee table so that what that tells you is their
blood had to have been placed on that magazine before the coffee table was knocked over that just means his story
is is wrong it's a lie what I'm pointing out here is is what I think believe happened is after he murdered his family
he came in there and knocked over the coffee table he he staged the living room to make it appear like he was
attacked in that room and in the process of staging the room he because he's the
murderer and has blood on his hands he's now transferred the blood from his wife
and from his daughter Kimberly onto the magazine itself yeah it could have been him sitting there and pondering well
what the hell do I do and where the when the blood was transferred and then he goes okay well now I need to Stage this
room and you know where his blood was found where it should not have been this is very troubling for Jeffrey McDonald
as well his blood mind you he's attacked in the living room none of his blood is
found in the living room at all only his wife and daughter Kimberly's blood is found in the living room on that
magazine in the living room his blood is located in the bedroom where Colette was
killed and his blood more importantly that's because I mean they find him lying next to her of course they're
going to find his blood there but a place where his blood should not have been found was located on the floor in
the kitchen right in front of the cabinet that was housing the surgical glove that's that's not good for so if
we are to believe the blood evidence it appears that let and Kimberly were killed he goes into the
living room to Stage the living room to make it look like he was attacked transfers blood to the the
magazine then at some point he realizes I'm going to have to I'm going to have to put some superficial wounds on myself
or nobody's going to believe that four people broke in killed these three people and did nothing to me so after he
harms himself after he cuts himself he then went into the kitchen kneel down opened up the cabinet got out the
surgical gloves went back into the bedroom and putting on the gloves cuz he can't use his bare fingers to write Pig
on the headboard because then his fingerprints would smudge in the blood so he puts on the surgical gloves dips
his fingers and Colette's blood and writes Pig on the headboard yeah that's a ring ring ring D is gone D's Nuts
got him Helena stokeley passed away quite a while ago in fact and a lot of people have continue to believe her
story there's some problems with her story because when she agreed to be filmed and interviewed by two
individuals she told a story of what happened that night she said that her and three males went to the McDonald
House the apartment he was a Target they knew he was a doctor they targeted him because they knew he
was a doctor they found the back door unlocked they went into the home and they confronted Jeffrey McDonald in the
living room they were trying to get drugs from him obviously he's not going to have
drugs to give them at his house so they allowed him to use the kitchen phone he makes a phone call he can't get whatever
they're looking for and then the men attack him she says it was out of her control she didn't know anybody was
going to be attacked that night she just knew they were going to go they targeted
this guy and they were going to get drugs from this guy when that didn't happen she said the three men she were
was with became angry they thought they could physically force him to get what they were looking for and this became
the attack and then because they were all on drugs and out of their minds according to the woman in the floppy hat
they went on and killed McDonald's family there's some issues with her story okay
again nobody received a phone call from Jeffrey McDonald that night his account does not say that the attackers made me
call somebody made me use the phone and second of all when asked what the men were using to attack Jeffrey McDonald
were they using a club a piece of wood a knife an ice pick nope Helena stokeley says they were using their fist yeah I
think sometimes it's hard for people to believe that anybody would come forward and I I don't think that like I said
when it matters when she's talking to a law enforcement she's not giving them these piece of pieces of evidence to
lock her up and throw away the key mhm and it seems like she's giving more details or maybe changing those
details when there's some publicity involved I don't know what would motivate somebody to say they were
involved in the murders of an innocent wife and a pregnant wife and two beautiful young
daughters I don't know what would possess somebody to say those things it happens a lot of time where they exclude
themselves and what does she do in all every single one of the stories she excludes herself I was there we're
probably there for drugs and yeah maybe I said this or maybe I said that but uh I didn't kill anybody that was that was
the other ones but we've also seen some people because they've been on drugs confess to
crimes that it was impossible for them to commit so I I think some of it is um it's just really hard to believe her
especially with the amount of drug use that she had well and this was national news from Jump Street this was
Big Time national news immediately after the murders of these three individuals and so there are crime scene photos in
the newspapers Jeffrey McDonald's story of what he told the authorities was in the
newspapers she could gather a decent amount of information straight from the media to corroborate some of McDonald
story but in the end she couldn't cooporate the whole thing 100% what's interesting to me is once we go to trial
she comes forward and refuses I mean she testifies but refuses to testify that she was there that night she's telling
all these other people that she was and what what people would say and and what the claim ended up being is that the
prosecutor sat her down and threatened her and that's why she refused to testify that her and her friends killed
the McDonald family what was the threat that they claimed the prosecutor threatened her with
they say that he threatened to put her in prison if she testified that she was there that night that she was involved
in the murders what kind of I don't understand why anybody would fault a prosecutor for threatening
that right if isn't that their job like of course if you're dumb enough to not understand that if you murder someone
you could go to prison uh I'm just here to remind you of that that's not a threat that's the way of the world
that's the way this [ __ ] works to basically he's saying hey if you confess in the court of law to this murder which
will then get this guy off and he goes free well guess who we're going to charge then the person that we have on
record in court confessing to the murder that's correct and let's top that off with this here Captain because for years
and years and years McDonald and his Camp have filed appeal after appeal 10 minutes ago no they've been filing
appeals up until I think 2009 2012 MH he was convicted uh tried back in 1979 they've been jamming up the courts
with this with this nonsense for decades well one of their claims was that an unidentified hair that was found in the
hands in the grip of Colette it it's been unidentified for years McDonald said that hair belonged
to the killer to Colette's killer and for years and years and years it remained unidentified then and
2006 March 10th to be exact 2006 DNA results confirmed that the hair found in Colette's right hand was her
own and a hair found in Colette's left hand belonged to Jeffrey McDonald so he tried to use those two hairs to say I've
been wrongfully convicted when again once we figure out what this evidence actually is it only
points back to him and one thing that I find so absurd and so strange bizarrely funny to
me is Jeffrey McDonald you finding something funny he claims one that he's innocent and then he went on to sue Joe
mcginness the guy that was hired to write the book write the Jeffrey McDonald story he sues mcginness because
mcginness writes a book called fatal vision and in that he explains that McDonald is in fact guilty just like the
courts found him and he explains why he believes that McDonald was guilty he said that it was a it was The Perfect
Storm it was a all of this lack of sleep the working the 24-hour shift and then working again this complete lack of
sleep McDonald's taking diet pills or some kind of pills that mcginness discovered and possibly taking other
drugs well one of the side effects was going into a rage so you combine that with W with his
stresses and his lack of sleep and this side effect and he says that you know this is the perfect storm that led to
this man that that otherwise you don't believe would would be capable of something like this yeah but what I find
bizarrely funny in this case is McDonald sues Joe mcginness and then he tells the
Press he says you know this man betrayed me he was one of my best friends my girlfriend you know obviously after the
murders my girlfriend that I had at the time not obviously cooked for him cooked
for Joe mcginness he I was betrayed by one of my best friends well guess what Jeffrey McDonald there is no bigger
betrayal in this world than killing your wife and two daughters okay so I guess I don't have to ask I I love
I love the he betrayed me w w sorry out of all the criminals that we've discussed on the on this show in
the garage Jeffrey McDonald is one that I hate he he's he's up there for me Captain he's he's on my uh do not
resuscitate list yeah so I I guess I don't have to ask this but if you're a betting man your bet goes towards
Jeffrey McDonald being guilty of killing his I will stand up on this table and shout it as loud as I can this man is as
guilty as I've ever seen I don't it's one of those cases I understand why it gets confusing there's all these little
there's all these little things that can then muddy the water Des scent yeah there's there's these little things that
you go wait a second but what about this what about this what about this what about this no push them all aside
because only one of two things happened either he killed them or The Intruders did and his blood evidence tells us he
was moving and manipulating that crime scene because he had to because he killed them yeah what was it that Denzel
Washington said it's the little things that get you [Music] caught thanks for tuning in thanks for
letting us be a part of your week we love you make make sure you follow us on Facebook Twitter Instagram @ True Crime
garage Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful people this week Captain we are
recommending American Justice great crimes and trials by two of my favorites Paul bag and Martin Pho this is an oldie
from 1993 and this is an amazing introduction into True Crime American Justice features 28 different well-known
True Crime cases and the authors are not only fantastic True Crime authors but Paul beg and Martin phto Pho we have
recommended some of his other works on the show before but these two are two of the most incredible ripperologist ever
plus old fans of the great TV series American Justice will love this book and we have this great title as well as
other great titles that you will love on our recommended page available for your
viewing and reading pleasure only at at true Crim garage.com and until next week
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Jeffrey MacDonald /// Part 2 /// 465

Part 2 of 2

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This week Nic & the Captain tell the story of one of the most litigated murder cases in American criminal history. Doctor and Army officer Jeffrey MacDonald was convicted of murdering his wife and two children. The man says he is innocent. Jeffrey claims the murders were committed by four intruders in the middle of the night. He says they tried to kill him as well. Join the guys in the garage for a beer and hear one of the most debated murder cases to date.

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the triple homicide of Jeffrey McDonald's family, evidence, and conflicting accounts leading to his conviction for murder.

Key points

Crystal Farms Commitment. Crystal Farms sources dairy from family farms, ensuring quality and community support.
True Crime Garage Introduction. Join Nick and the captain for a deep dive into true crime stories.
The McDonald Case Overview. A triple homicide raises questions about intruders versus family murder.
Helena Stokeley's Involvement. A woman matching the intruder's description claims she was present during the murders.
Freddy Cassab's Investigation. Freddy Cassab spearheads the investigation against Jeffrey McDonald, seeking justice for his family.
The Alibi Unraveled. Prosecution reveals Jeffrey McDonald's alibi was crafted from magazine articles about cult murders.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Either four people entered this home or Jeffrey McDonald killed his family.

Explaining the two theories

5:45WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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