James P. Watson: The Bluebeard Killer | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

wait guys serious question did you get your invite to our next weirdos audio book club no oh my God I'm so sorry well
consider yourself invited this time you guys we are covering the audible title Blue Beard a suspenseful radio style
dramatization of True Life events leading to the capture of Infamous the infamous Blue Beard Watson who conned
and killed countless women in the early 1900s join us in a special guest on Friday the 13th of December while we
talk about this title join the conversation on Instagram Friday December 13th weirdos audio book
[Music] club cute way of talking you got the B ideas does he actually say the baddest ideas or I
don't know that song you don't know that song is it old yeah it is I love how you're like
songs isn't it old you must know it hold on you got a cute [Music] way you know what I'm not good you've
seen it before you'll sing a song and I'll be like I don't know what that song is and then I'll listen to it and I'm
like oh I know this song you absolutely I'm just not going to like catching it when someone else sings it it's the one
that's like You Make Me Feel Like Dancing I'm going to dance the night away you make me feel like danc
M and Pua definitely played this song Please Hold You Make Me Feel oh I think I have heard this I I
don't think it played often in our house though this does not hit a Nostalgia button at all for me I love that song
like I think maybe I've heard that like once wow you have to say hey weirdos oh yeah hey weirdos I'm Molina I'm Ash and
this is morbin and you make us feel like dancing [Music] I don't know why I thought he said you
have the baddest ideas when he says you got the better of me your interpretations of lyrics are incredible
thank you it's a specialty of mine what the pecan pie oh it's they're so and the
um uh ice queen Ice que oh that's one of my best we've told them that one but the
have we told them the uh is that Empire of the Sun yes it's not walking on a dream is it yeah it is is it yeah now I
have you got me feel like dancing in my head so I can't think of my version hold
on when he says is it real now when two people become one I say is it grandma is she making PE and Pie and
then I say can I have some can I have some PE pie if you listen to it you can hear the grandma a little bit Yeah it
Trails off a little I think the the the pean pie was like a joke felt right at the moment yeah it that was for the bet
that was for the plot for the plot for the plot and that's lyrics with ashel thanks for tuning in folks I love it
thanks how are you you got the baddest ideas you got the better of me when you were singing that I was like what cuz
you like it's old I was like I feel like that wouldn't be what they would say no
when I was thinking that I also was like that's definitely not it but it just felt good you commit and like baddest
now is good like you're the baddest [ __ ] you got the baddest ideas and it's kind of like oh you got the baddest
ideas girl you know what I mean you know what I mean oh my God you crazy girl oh
here we are I put a lot of coffee creamer in my coffee today so she's on a different level I'm in like Baja Blast
Terr excuse me bajaa blast territory it's true I become unhinged and we love it thank you we've got an unhinged case
that we're going to talk about we do we cuz we're going to be covering James P Watson the Blue Beard killer oh and then
uh we're going to be following this up with the weirdos audio book club honey heyya so we're covering the case and
then we're going to read the title and we're going to discuss it with a special guest a special guest we're not
announcing yet but I think you know him and I think you love them and we do too and of course we do too of of course
he's stuck with us forever it's true he knows be yeah yeah he said he's happy being stuck with us forever so who do
you think it is not John or Drew but they're also stuck with us forever uh so this story is very complex
yeah there are many names quite like the kind of like the one that you were doing
yeah the murder of Carol Thompson yeah that would that had a lot of names very um so many criminals see and this
is just one criminal who is goes by many names oh we have another Alias kind so many aliases I love so many an alasi an
alas did they become alasi this is a a wild one so we're going to start out a place and then I'm going to take you to
the beginning when Katherine wacher suspected her husband Walter Andrew of having an affair in the spring of 1920
she hired um you know a private detective she was she was on her [ __ ] she was like I'm not letting this just
go Queen also back in 1920 in 1920 she hired a private detective to follow him on one of his many out of town trips
that he would take and they had only been married for a short period of time and he had been on many out oftwn trips
so she was like something's weird here yeah but rather than follow Walter out of town like the private detective
thought he would be doing he tracked the man less than a mile away from his home
with Catherine what in Hollywood where he discovered that Walter had had indeed been carrying on a relationship with
another woman he was having an affair but that was the Le Beast of Catherine's issues here oh No in fact his real name
was James Watson and that was not the only name he was known by uhoh so let's go back to the beginning who the [ __ ] is
James Watson cuz what are you doing sir yeah is what I say yeah a less than a mile away from your home that's CRA and
all that time she thought he was like going Here There and Everywhere out of town L than a mile away but right under
her nose he was going out of town sometimes because that was not the only thing he was doing oh I'm I don't so
scared to know what he was doing as you should be um in the interviews he gave just after his arrest because he would
be arrested later uh Watson claimed to have very little memory of his early life that tended to be his uh go-to
thing when when he didn't want to talk about something he go you know it's crazy I just don't remember he pleed the
fifth a lot good um he would go so far as to tell a reporter that he grown up in an orphanage and couldn't remember
which state he resided in okay um he only knew that it was in the south now when asked what he knew of his parents
he again claimed he really didn't have any memory of either his mother or his father uh but he did have vague memories
apparently of both parents appearing at one point or another to claim him at the
orphanage okay he said in an interview it appears that a man came and they said they must hide me for they didn't want
him him to have me and I think I heard someone say he was my father it seems to me they put me under the bed or in the
closet just before he came and I stayed there until he went away and do we think
this is true oh uh survey says that's a lie okay so yeah no one really knows why
Watson told these stories at this time especially yeah they were basically all lies like he just kind of bullshitted
his whole life I guess it makes his life sound more interesting yeah he's very um
he's HH homes esque to he's got that it had that Vibe yeah where he lies a lot he embellishes a lot he goes by many
aliases to get away with different things like all very Fantastical lots of marriage is happening here um but he
would also claim that he couldn't remember details of something when one he wanted to get away with something or
just be a dick but he also they found that he would do this when the reality of the situation was too painful so he
did have some trauma yeah I was going to say that's definitely a trauma response
and this would make sense for him because again his early life was definitely not great there was a lot of
abuse a lot of neglect it was he did not grow up in a loving home yeah he feel for the kid version of him now James
Watson was not born James Watson had a feeling uh he was born Charles Gillum in car great name why change it Charles
Gill I love the name Charles he was born in Carol County Arkansas on July 3rd 1871 uh his father was a dick and
abandoned the family when Watson was just an inant infant just took off great um and his mother was also a dick uh she
was super volatile uh and would honestly direct all her rage and anger at her only son awesome yeah when James was
still very young his mom remarried and changed his first and last names yeah relatable yeah rechristening
him as Joseph Holden oh okay so she maybe like maybe to have a more holy name I guess I'm not really sure I I
think just just shenan on her part yeah moms that change their kids' names are weird yeah it's a little strange now at
the time of his mother's remarriage his stepfather already had several children of his own and neither parent made any
effort to integrate James into that new family he was just kind of kicked to the
side yeah uh so his mom's a complete piece of [ __ ] and his new stepfather was also a complete piece of [ __ ] yeah [ __ ]
him um yeah they just didn't do it instead they just kind of used him as a scapegoat for whatever went wrong and
would just kind of like torment and abuse him his entire childhood why why have children so those two are [ __ ]
[ __ ] um when he was just 12 years old he left home for good wow took off was like I'm good with this this [ __ ] he
must have seen and experienced by 12 yeah to leave to leave permanently yeah he left home for good he drifted around
the Southern United States taking jobs wherever he could find them um in his version of events and remember you have
to take all what he's saying as a grain of salt because he's a liar a true true liar right um but I mean I guess it
wouldn't really serve him too much to lie about this part but who knows you never know yeah um in his version of of
events he was adopted and his new family traveled around the South working as Farm laborers according to Watson and
his mid- teens he spent a long period in Kansas working on a farm with a man who
served as the area's blacksmith um he told the a reporter for the Los Angeles Times he used to make me
work on the farm if I didn't do my work I didn't eat and then he said good the blacksmith was physically abusive and
would often hit and whip him for things he didn't realize he had even done wrong
Jesus yeah what is wrong with all these adults truly according to Watson he ran away from the blacksmith's farm for
about a year and then he changed his name again to Dan Bolton Okay uh from this point he continued traveling
through the South as kind of just like working as a laborer whatever he could do eventually he made his way up to
Canada and he settled in a place that I didn't know existed and I love the name of it Moosejaw Saskatoon hell yeah Moose
Jaw Saskatoon oh hey where are you from uh I come from uh moose Moosejaw cat what Moosejaw Saskatoon I come from
Moosejaw Saskatoon it has a very nice mouth feel when you say itas sason it's the Saskatoon of it all yeah it's very
smooth CU you do the and then the C and then the T and then the and the O I like
the Saskatoon yeah yeah and Moose Jaw is just great I feel like you know how people like call their animals crazy
things I could see you calling your dog Saskatoon oh hell yeah come here you little SAS come here you little
Saskatoon I love it oh that was the Bubba was gination station oh yeah for a long time she was many many things but
gation station was a station I just call my cat sexy man and she was like that's
weird he's like and I'm like whatever so so here he goes he settles in Moose ja Saskatoon in 1912 and he
changed his name again that's when he changed it to James Watson okay now in the year that follow followed he found
work at a mill in Calgary and then from there he traveled to Vancouver he went into business for himself and operated a
collection agency you're in a place of Canada lately I am in a place of Canada lately I get it it's fun I mean Canada
Canada am I right right now in 1913 Watson met and married Katherine Cruz in Nelson which is a small City in
the mountains of Southern British Columbia there's not a lot known about Catherine but um through like some
articles Publications they list her as either his first or his fourth wife oh big difference there yeah and and you as
you'll see it's there's countless so it's really it's hard to keep it track in a letter to a friend Katherine wrote
James certainly knew about how to get married quickly we were married without any of our friends knowing about
anything about it my parents did not know of it until sometime afterwards oh that's really sad and when she says
James certainly knew how to get married quickly that's an understatement oh yeah
yeah now as a collection agent Watson would have to spend a lot of time traveling you know to collect on debts
do all that kind of stuff yeah so on his frequent trips away from home he was doing something that didn't seem
suspicious to Catherine at the time like that he travels for work yeah like it wasn't hard to convince her sure so he
would what was a little suspicious was he would was he would come back from these trips a lot of time with women's
clothing and jewelry that's upsetting and he would tell his wife these items were seized payment of overdue debts or
mortgages and so now you get them and she was like okay but she was like [Music]
weird now because Watson was a consumate liar who by the end of his life couldn't
even tell which parts of his own history were true and false like he muddled his
own memory so much that's scary yeah it's really difficult to know where his habits went from bigamy to murder like
where exactly it happened um between 1915 and 1918 he was juggling several marriages at the time marriages too not
just like women like girlfriends marriages like how and some of those his wives would just disappear Without a
Trace oh no yeah and as a result it's impossible to know precisely when his murder spree began or even identify his
very first victim okay um but specifically since he frequently claimed to have forgotten so many details it
gets very muddled um it should also kind of be noted that while he did confess to
many murders there's no exact list of how many wives he even had or how many of them were victims like there could be
more many more um even the details of those that are known to have been killed are so obscured and vague it's kind of
difficult to put everything together it's not impossible to put together like an accurate chronology of the events at
least like to some extent yeah but I guess even like modern sources will tell you like it's difficult to put dates and
names with victims to a tea like things get muddled in here now in October 1917 while he was still married to Katherine
Cruz Watson going by the name Charles Newton Harvey now Jesus Christ oh yeah we're only at the tip of it he he was
married to Katherine Cruz yes now he is going by the name Charles Newton Harvey and he's married marrying another woman
now while he's married to Katherine named Alice Lon in Port Towns in Washington it's worth noting that he was
technically still married to Katherine Cruz but he had abandoned her several years earlier oh like maybe even as
early as 1914 just abandoned her nice yeah with the exception of maybe Cru it looks like Watson's method of meeting
women was typically placing an ad in the Lonely Hearts section one of those people uh he would advertise himself as
a wealthy man looking for a wife and this was exactly the kind this was the advertisement that he placed under the
Alias HL Gordon a gentleman need appearing of C of courious disposition well connected in a business way has
quite a little property and has connected several Corp corations his b his nice bank account has nice bank
account as well as considerable role of government bonds would be pleased to correspond with refined young lady or
Widow objective matrimony this advertisement is in good faith all answers will be treated with
respect which you can see why people responded to that he seems nice he's got money he's got property he's looking for
marriage he's going to give you a chance no matter what yeah all right I'm saying
I'd answer back then once the advertisement would get some responses he would evaluate each one and he would
pick out the wealthiest women it's like a game for him it absolutely was and once he picked out that list of wealthy
women he would start a rapid fire courtship and urge a very early marriage with them scary after the marriage he
would ask his new wife for a list of her closest friends her closest relatives saying he wanted to make sure he knew
who was close to her so he could notify them in case of emergency uhhuh from that point forward he said about you
know fleecing them of money essentially property various other assets by either asking for small to bigger size loans or
claiming you know what why don't we just combine our assets together roll our wealth into each others and that would
give him free access to their money you know what this makes me wonder I wonder when prenups started I know I'm going to
Google that really quickly cuz that's a good call it popped into my head now in the early Decades of the 20th century
and for many decades later the concept of a Serial or spree killer was still unfathomable like I mean yeah serial
killers spree killers were not a thing that people were studying or thinking could even happen and the majority you
know of Americans were naive to the fact that men would prey on women to the extent that Watson did it just wasn't
something that happened yeah like all the time so it never occurred to any of Watson's wives that Not only was he only
marrying them for the money but he also intended to kill them once they were no longer of any use or value to him right
that never crossed their mind it wasn't like they were looking at this ad being like Oh I wonder if he's a murderer like
we would yeah like like modern women probably would immediately be like but this guy could be a serial killer yeah
like probably most likely never crossed their mind of and shouldn't have because
it wasn't a big thing it just wasn't a thing that they had to worry about and also being married was like a a huge
thing back then like that a thing you were looking to get married you were looking to like combine assets you were
looking to and it was place of St that was your societal standing exactly and by the way um prenups actually go back
to ancient Egypt wow which is crazy yeah according to uh AI on Google uh prenuptual agreements also known as
marital contracts date back to ancient Egypt where some of the earliest known prenups were written on uh papus Scrolls
over 2,000 Papyrus Papyrus Scrolls excuse me 2,000 years ago but I think the prenup as we think of it like the
more kind of legal document legal document became more popular in the 1980s oh okay but that's so cool to
think about that there was some kind of discussion of like what we're going to divvy up or what we keep and you get
yeah and if you think of it too like in like more medieval times it was like dowries and stuff like that was your
kind of their version of like a prenup yeah it was like leading up to the more formal one yeah interesting but yeah
these women back they didn't have any reason to really be thinking that this is what they were encountering here in
fact many of the women looking for love and companionship and newspaper were older and more socially established
already so it made their pool of potential suitors a little smaller not only were they less likely to be
suspicious of a man who seemed pretty psyched to move into like forward with the relationship quickly but they were
also sus susceptible to the Grand romantic gestures that Watson made and the promises of exotic vacations you
know they had already been through this rigoll so there's like another one let's
go yeah unfortunately for many of Watson's wives those exciting and exotic vacations would turn out to be their
last MH starting with Alice ludwigson in 1917 according to his confession later the two of them took a fishing trip on a
river in Idaho and while out on the water in their small rowboat the boat became jammed up against some logs that
had been SEC like secured to the riverbank and Watson said he claimed that Alice started to push against the
logs with her hands and he was pushing with his feet and when the boat finally like dislodged she lost her balance and
fell from the boat oh and he said his first impulse was to rush to one of the logging camps in the vicinity and asked
for help but he was a stranger in the neighborhood and fearing that he might be suspected of being the cause of the
woman's death he finally decided to say nothing about the matter I feel like this went differently he definitely
murdered her yeah absolutely like drowned her most likely her body was never recovered and her death only came
to light after he was arrested wow yeah it was definitely a murder like for sure
yeah um but he claimed it was an accident and he claimed that it gave him the idea that he could oh conveniently
get rid of his wives once he secured access to their finances and then he could move on to a new woman you know
using the Lonely Heart section of the newspaper and keep doing it right the next several murders happened in quick
succession all in a very similar manner to Alice um there was beatric Andre wartha a widow who was described as
having a particularly lovely disposition oh um Watson married her in Tacoma Washington in the summer of 1918 under
the name Harry Lewis they took a trip to Lake Washington a few months later where
beatric drowned under mysterious circumstances so he likes to drown people yeah he changes it up a little
bit okay um Agnes Wilson he married in September 1918 now remember 1918 that's the same year same year so his previous
beatric drown he marries Agnes in the same year damn and in the same year she met the same fate in Lake Washington the
same exact Lake when she fell from the boat quote unquote and drowned in the Rough Waters of Lake Washington Bertha
Goodrich also referred to in some sources as goodnik um she married Watson and also quote unquote fell from a boat
on Wake Washington one afternoon when they went out on the water according to Watson he said she tried to travel from
the Stern to the center of the craft and lost her balance and fell mhm but later
he slipped up because he referred to this death explicitly as a murder wow yeah so it's like how could that be a
murder if she just slipped he would just forget what he referred to as an accident when he didn't of course now
initially Watson framed the deaths of these wives like I said as accidental drownings and he said he just you know
he would capitalize on it by taking control of the women's Estates but in interviews with investigators after he
was arrested he would claim he was quote impelled to do these acts by some dominating force that he could not
understand he said that the impulse to kill would come upon him and that he would feel that some mighty power was
instructing him and forcing him to commit murder okay yeah now according to him he
would resist the urge for a little period of time until he was no longer able to control himself and he would
kill and after that he said he would always feel a sense of relief a feeling he described as having done well okay so
he's a straight up murderer yeah like he was made into a monster and he like very
much enjoys it does it because he wants to and I think the money is just like a happy thing he also likes it during it
right now the deaths of these women seem to have been committed opportunistically
so far yeah or at least orchestrated to appear as accidents at some point in early 1919 though only the following
year after all those it seems that the kind of accidental nature of these deaths was no longer sufficient to
satisfy his need to kill uh this is evident in the murder of Marie Austin who Watson married in Calgary very
shortly after the wedding they honeymooned in cordelan and on a trip to Lake cordelan he struck her on the head
with a rock holy [ __ ] and drowned her in the lake oh my God after she was dead he
waited her body down with rocks and sank her to the bottom of the lake my God so
he really escalated yeah her death was followed quickly by the death of Eleanor Fraser whom Watson married in Seattle in
the same exact year early 1919 for their honeymoon the couple visited the waterfalls in
Spokane while looking out over the falls the waterfalls admiring The View Watson
came up behind Eleanor and hard pushed her into the waterfall holy [ __ ] and she
drowned and when he told detectives of this later he said there was no controversy just an Impulse to kill so
he was like there was nothing wrong we weren't fighting I just pushed her over and she's just having this moment where
she's probably thinking like wow what a beautiful life I'm living I'm on my honey moon and he pushes her into the
Falls holy [ __ ] so although it's difficult to pinpoint the specifics of names and dates you know it's very clear
that he is increasing in violence as he goes uh a few months after Fraser's death Elizabeth prior who Watson married
as Milton Lewis in cordelan uh on March and that's an Idaho on March 25th 1919 this is the same year um so
he's now on wife three for year and we are only in March which is insane uh she died a similarly violent death according
to Watson's confession shortly after them U they got married they got into a little argument and in what he called a
house near Olympia Washington and he said prior attacked him with a hat pin okay and Watson claimed that he pushed
her away violently and she fell to the floor but hit her head on the corner of a box based on the amount of blood
Watson assumed she was dead but to make certain he said he got a hammer and struck her in the head with it now
that's not entirely true okay he didn't just hit her on the head with a hammer he literally crushed Elizabeth's skull
with a sledgehammer a sledgehammer what the [ __ ] the way that he just started drowning people and and like pushing
them over Cliffs like that's almost passive in a way you know what I mean but then to beat somebody about the head
with a sledgehammer and for him to claim that she fell and hit her head first that's I think that's [ __ ] because
you could never tell that that was he crushed her skull there was no way to tell that she had hit her head before
that my God and after killing her he placed her body in a large hole in the yard in the yard from a um and it was
like a large hole that was from a tree that had been uprooted and then he covered her over and buried her with
dirt he went back to the house and he said he found the room was so covered with blood that he could not possibly
clean it all up so he just set the house on fire I have a feeling that's what he
was going to [Music] do in the three years leading up to Elizabeth prior's death Watson estimated
that he married about 20 women I love that even he's not sure yeah he's not he's like it's probably like ballpark 20
and some estimates are as high as 40 really yeah holy [ __ ] some of them disappeared some of them were murdered
and it occurred to Watson that it was getting a little risky to operate in the Pacific Northwest now so he packed up
his things abandoned his many wives without any words cuz you're just like taking out everybody everywhere and he
traveled Southwest to California settling in San Francisco in the fall of 1919 we are still in 1919
just hello yeah once there Watson met and married Nina deloney um as well as two other women great so we married
three women right off the bat whose names he claimed to have forgotten by the time he was arrested he probably did
so crass and like awful but I believe it yeah nah deloney arrived in California from Montana in November 1919 and on
December 5th within weeks of her arrival she was married to Watson who she knew as Charles and Harvey on January 12th
1920 they registered at a hotel in Santa Monica and they spent their honeymoon there on January 26th only like a week
later they left Santa Monica for a camping trip near Signal Hill Hill in Long Beach don't go on camping trips no
with these men just don't do it at some point during the trip nah became suspicious that her husband was having
an affair because he was with many other women so many women because and she found several letters from other women
in his possession yikes the two got into a heated argument and after losing his temper entirely he struck nah in the
head with a hammer then smothered her with a blanket oh after smothering her he struck her several more times with
the hammer just to make sure she was dead yeah oh just the brutality yeah the violence is insane that night he wrapped
Nina's body in a blanket and drove South to the Imperial Valley and buried her in
a shallow grave along a Mountain Road about a month later one of Nina's friends in Kentucky received a telegram
from her saying she was in Tijana stop it so he would also and we find out later he would follow up with letters to
all their family members to try to make sure they thought they were alive so which is why he asked for those contacts
these are like multiple multiple women that he's killing and maintaining relationships with their family members
as them he had to have been kept keeping like crazy logs of whose family was who
he did and he kept all their letters I love that he can't remember certain Wom names that he was married to somehow was
able to keep track of all all of that for someone who has a shitty memory later in life he was able to
hold many different people and I can't even remember people's names who I literally just shake their hands true I
forget names immediately and it's not because I don't give a [ __ ] it's because
I just don't hold a name some people just don't have I don't have that ability and this guy is literally
holding all these facts with people maintaining communication with their family members and then later is like
yeah yeah my memory is just crazy I'm like no that doesn't make any sense now among the more uh Curious aspects of the
case for investigators and the public honestly was how Watson was able to do just that how was he able to manage
multiple wives at one time like logs married couples see each and logs are one thing but married couples see each
other most days see Drew like every day it's crazy like you pretty much live with your spouse like that's something a
lot yeah so juggling as many as four or five wives at once would require uh a lot of absences yeah for each of them
yeah Watson's solution was to tell each wife that his job required him to travel
often either as a collections agent or a secret service or other government agents of course he's like I'm in the
CIA yeah to the ordinary American in the early 20th century those jobs were familiar titles they that wasn't weird
like collection agent you know um but they were vague enough that no one was going to like pry any further and in the
event that one of the wives would become suspicious he would just quickly pack up
his and usually her things and disappear or just murder her yeah those were his two options steal all her [ __ ] and
disappear or murder her yeah now the latest of C Watson's wives Katherine Wacker you may remember from the
beginning I do indeed became suspicious when her husband whom she knew as Walter
Andrews had been gone for extended periods of time and during one of those extended periods of time that was when
he murdered and married nah deloney okay so he had left being like I'm going out
on business and married and murdered a woman and then wrote letters family members Catherine was a dress maker from
Spokane Washington who married Watson in late 1919 were still in 1919 how many people did he marry in 1919 my God so
many and before he left the area and relocated to California and at the time of the marriage he told his new wife
that he worked as a federal agent and required they required a lot of traveling around yeah to investigate
thefts uhhuh despite this impressive and you know what you would presume to be a
lucrative employment you know yeah Watson seemed particularly interested in Katherine's finances and within weeks of
their marriage he was asking her for loans of several thousand no I'd be like I thought you had a good job why you
need my money yeah Katherine soon grew tired of this whole thing and was like you're gone a lot and I think it's weird
and in early 1920 she followed him to California herself showing up unexpectedly at his residence she's a
badass how scary though to think what he could have done to her I true and with Catherine unwilling to return to
Washington without him he had no choice but to set up a new resonance with her in Hollywood she was like I'm not
leaving so incredible figure it out incredible so the new apartment in California didn't do a lot to settle her
anxieties about him though he still disappeared for long periods of time he seemed more secretive than he had ever
been and among the more sensitive topics that she would get into with him was the
large Black Satchel that he carried with him everywhere he went and the bag was always locked it had a lock on it and he
was Cy and sometimes combative when she would ask him what was inside of it it's
shocking that he didn't just murder her as quickly as he murdered these other women especially because she's asking
questions question some of these other they're just looking out over Cliffs and he pushes them off a cliff or hits them
in the head with a Hammerly for literally nothing actually kind of on to him she is so assuming her husband was
carrying on an affair with another woman that was like the most she was upset about Katherine hired Nick Harris who
was an LA private detective love PD right and she was like follow and this is 1920 too so it seems very uh and she
was like follow my husband find out what he's up to and chain smoke while you're
at it exactly like Catherine Harris assumed the case was you know infidelity like pretty simple it's going to be
straight sure he dealt with that a lot yeah and he began following Watson in early April and when he that's when
Watson had told Catherine he had to go out of town to investigate a diamond smuggling ring shut in Northern
California do you ever notice how these guys who do this [ __ ] they always overinflate yes they always turn into
like I I have to investigate a diamond smuggling ring like there so he's like I'm a CIA agent it's like oh my God
you're just a stupid murderer you're just an [ __ ] in a waste of space so gross uh but rather than follow him to
Northern California as he was expecting to do since that's where he told Catherine he would be going the
detective assigned to the case G JB Armstrong followed Watson to a small house less than a mile away where he
watched Watson go inside and not come out until the following morning oh he's got a
girlfriend Armstrong waited until Watson left the house for an extended period and then he contacted the Sheriff's
Office and was like yo I need your help breaking into this house it's unclear what grounds they were able to enter
that home on without consent uh Shaky Ground for sure but an article published a few days later stated that Walter
Andrews James Watson was suspected of complicity in the recent attempt to burglarize the Hines Banks which
theoretically could have given them cause Okay probable did they make it up maybe I don't know they might not have
though maybe they had some evidence here uh but once inside they did get inside the men located Watson's face is black
bag oh he left his b he left it I'm so scared what what in the bag BR they broke the lock and discovered three
marriage licenses under three different names including a marriage to nah deloney as well as jewelry money and
other valuables believed to be from women he had married abandoned or killed and he's just he's got all this walk
around with it yeah and also in the bag was a list of 20 women with whom he had been cons corresponding 20 along with
some of the letter letters from those women indicating he had no intention of stopping he was on to the next big shot
yeah he was just on to the next 20 women he was corresponding with I can't answer
a text you can't and this man is corresponding with 20 different people couldn't be me and Via snail mail
couldn't be me no we honey it could never be never be me like holy [ __ ] back at the Sheriff's Office the deputies
with the help of the Harris agency sent telegrams to law enforcement officials in the area where the marriage licenses
had been issued and it was from those agencies that investigators learned their suspect who they knew as Walter
Andrews had quote deserted his wives after they had given him sums ring ranging from $600 to
$4,500 damn based on the multiple marriage licenses the Sheriff's Office got a warrant for Watson's arrest on the
charge of bigamy yep and on April 9th they returned to the house to arrest him and return him to San Diego to be
questioned for other crimes including the death of Nina do um delone because her marriage license was in there
however when they arrived at the house and announced that they were going to be arresting him for several crimes he
pulled out a pocket knife from his pocket and cut his own throat no yeah but he lived because he he says [ __ ] he
was rushed to the nearest hospital for treatment and while they awaited word from doctors they started investigating
and unraveling the giant puzzle that was James Watson's [ __ ] life it took some
time but using the information contained in the bag and the additional documents
and information provided by Katherine Wacker queen queen investigators in California were able to connect a lot of
the dots from one alien Alias and wife to another because there's so many aliases and wives so they put together a
truly shocking picture by the time he had been stabilized a few days later detectives had connected Watson to at
least 17 wives officially like at this point my God including several who had gone Miss in under mysterious
circumstances also they were surprised to find his activity extended far beyond the borders of California and included
wives in States up and down the west coast and several in Canada my God because most had been taken for various
sums of money and were [ __ ] pissed like a lot of them had just been taken for money and abandoned yeah all of the
wives that police in California were able to connect contact had no hesitation talking to them they were
like let's go sit down let me tell you everything according to Elizabeth Williamson
Watson's wife in Sacramento her husband who she knew as Richard Hurt was a quote
woman hater and resorted to many marriages as revenge on women as a sex for sufferings caused to him by a few
beginning with his mother so she's saying always goes back this is him being a [ __ ] woman hater his mom
[ __ ] him up and he's angry at women and he's going to punish us all she pretty much hit the nail on the head
according to William she had arrived at the conclusion based on many states statements he had made to her about
women she's like he's a piece of [ __ ] yeah now within a week of Watson's arrest investigators had found
additional evidence connecting him to several other women much of which was stored in a safety deposit box in San
Diego so now he has all different [ __ ] storage things it was at this time that he was also connected to
Bertha Goodrich sometimes referred to as goodnick um and Alice Linson the the ini
like accidental quote death victim pretty much also by this time investigators had identified several of
the names Watson had used in his marriage schemes including but not limited to Walter Andrews Walter Andrew
Watson Charles Newton Harvey Harry leis Lewis a Hilton Andrew hurt James Wood Cen Harvey Edward Huff Dan Holden James
R ruitt and HL Gordon that's 12 and that's all that's like not limited yeah as they followed the clues from one wife
and Alias to another it was coming increasingly clear that there was more to the story than simple bigamy and
financial fraud right in a storage unit in La rented under the name Cen Harvey detectives found a large amount of nah
delone Furniture oh as well as typewritten letters from several of Watson's wives which it would later be
learned that he used to fool family members into thinking their loved ones were still alive and they were all a lot
of them were like stored in this box that's like a that's like something all on its own
like convincing their family members that they're still alive sitting down and writing as that person to convince
them that's a whole other layer [ __ ] up exactly yeah one of those letters signed by Alice lingon informed her
family that she would be taking a long trip to South America and wouldn't be able to contact them for some time oh
[Music] they also began assembling a large file of newspaper clippings uh where Watson
was Finding and meeting his wives as well as several marriage announcements including one from
1913 announcing the marriage of James Watson to Katherine Cruz H finally they also discovered a bloodstained map of
the barago valley which investigators believe would lead them to where nah delon's body was and it was Blood
Stained that's so horrific to think about while law enforcement officials worked cooperatively which is nice to
hear cuz there are so many of them that have to work together and this could have been an absolute [ __ ] show of Egos
and [ __ ] yep we've seen that happen oh yeah they they worked very cooperatively to just disentangle this
whole thing nice um headlines and papers across California and the Pacific ific Northwest were full of stories of who
they were now referring to as a modern day Blue Beard that's a reference to the 17th century French folk tale of of a
wealthy man who murders his wives it's also got pirate Vibes it does and we all agreed with that me Mikey and Ash were
like I thought this was a pirate yep 100 thought this was a pirate as soon as I heard about Blue Beard I was like oh a
pirate right like it feels piratey yeah i' had never heard of that Grim fairy tale is Blackbeard a pirate Blackbeard's
got to Blackbeard's a pirate maybe that's a pilot too maybe who knows it's Blackbeard right yeah that's why we I
think that's where we were all yeah going just you know colorful beards he was an English pirate yeah I knew it so
there you go we're not far off no um but each day with this case seem to bring more reports of another wife and you
know more disturbing details and new questions about the missing women as well MH but what seemed to baffle the
press and police alike was how very little Watson seemed to fit the description of somebody they thought
could be a murderous Maniac who was also Charming all these women yeah um especially back then too like they're
like they don't understand this whole concept they're not seeing it so rather than being the stereotypically Mad
killer they expected doctors and detectives found Watson to be a quote gnome like
fellow a gnome like fellow a gnome like fellows tricking all these ladies a gnome a gnome like fellow who whined
and dined his prospective Brides at fancy restaurants and even endeared himself to the widowed ones with
children which is so [ __ ] up oh I hate that he was one journalist wrote a man of average looks and build well spoken
and intelligent so he was just your everyday gnome like fellow you know a gnome a g like fell G sent me almost two
weeks into their investigation police and La were notified about the discovery of Elizabeth prior's body in Plum
Station Washington it didn't take long for the news to hit the papers and soon after it made its way back to Watson
that they had found her body he was still in the hospital recovering from that self-inflicted neck wound he heard
the news and he made another attempt to end his life by cutting his wrists wow but the hospital staff stopped him this
is so crazy that I actually forgot that he slid his own throat yeah upon arrival
much happening I was like wait what happened I was like oh wow he SL his own throat and then he heard that they found
Elizabeth prior's body and he tried to slice his wrists but the hospital staff was able to intervene good so for weeks
Los Angeles County district attorney Thomas woolwine had been interrogating Watson trying to get him to confess but
they'd made very little progress with him at this point he was frequently claiming he had no memory that was it
pleading the fifth I I I just can't remember yeah and following the discovery of prior's body in Washington
though Watson probably accepting the fact that he had no [ __ ] way out of this at this point asked to speak with
woolwine and in the course of a few days he confessed to killing four of his wives by four yeah that was just the
beginning but by the time the case was closed he had confessed to killing at least nine of his wives at least that
was only what he confessed to oh he said he told wol wine something just told me
to go and marry them and yet Something Told Me Not to yet I would go do it and it seemed all at once an Impulse came
over me to go someplace and make away with them it seemed like I had done something I was ordered to do that's
scary cuz you're like like what the and obviously back then there was not really
any way to like psychologically evaluate him to I mean they they tried to for sure like they always I mean like like
how they could in modern times as now and there's so many things that didn't even have names yet so thing you just
wonder what what he was what he had yeah after giving his confession he led detectives to the mountain in El Centro
where he buried Nina delone but he couldn't remember exactly where the grave was but they did eventually find
and exume her from the shallow grave um his confession was published in Parts in
papers across the country and people were demanding he be executed for his crimes both those he' confessed to and
those he was assumed to have been committing but in exchange for his confession and directions to nah delon's
body W wine offered him a sentence of life in prison you can understand that hon
I'm sure Nina's family would have rather had their loved one back than another person de exactly on May 3rd 1920 just
before leading police to nah delon's body James Watson made a public statement through his attorney J Morgan
marmaduk like sir nobody wants that no also marmaduk right and he tried to defend himself as mentally ill he said
he does sound mentally ill he does but when you when you hear the statement you're like you're like real self-aware
like I'm like I like that seems pretty self-aware well it's also like he seems mentally ill but he's also able and like
yeah has the wherewithal to keep track of most of this thing he's I think he's mentally ill but I think he is sane and
knows what he was doing knows it was wrong I don't think he should be put in a institution or a hospital I think
completely agree yeah so he said is it even reasonable to think my acts are the work of a sane man who was in a position
to control himself my Every Act shows I am to be pied more than to be blamed disagree [ __ ] off yeah no I don't pity
you at all you're a fool but I don't pity the fool and then he urged the public to consider the circumstances
before passing judgment he said if they will do this I believe the public will not ask that I should receive the same
punishment as if I were a normal person like do don't no yeah you're definitely not a normal person but you you kept
logs like let's not pretend that you were like oops I did that and now I'm moving on that's the thing like you were
sayane enough to make sure you didn't get caught for a long time the fact that you were using aliases tells me
everything I need to know you made a new identity so you wouldn't get caught right which means you understand can't
claim to be insane or not understand the consequences of your actions now exactly
that [ __ ] you yep uh on May 6th he appeared in Superior Court of Los Angeles where he pleaded guilty to the
murder of Nina deloney four days later he was back in Superior Court where judge Frank Willis handed down a life
sentence to be served at s quent in prison he was like he said your crimes as recorded in this court are the most
heinous in the annals of criminal jurisprudence and he told Watson though he acknowledged that he does think he
was mentally ill he believed that the district attorney had made the right decision in offering a plea deal he was
like you do not belong in a hospital I think you are me and he was kind of saying what we were I think you're
mentally ill but you knew what you're doing saying on May 18th he arrived at San Quinton to begin serving his
sentence and that's a rough pris good luck there Jamesy poo yeah so for months the story of James Watson dominated
newspapers across the country but when he entered prison in May most people were assuming it was just going to kind
of come to a stop and for the most part it did but at San Quenton the guards and
other inmates were baffled by this man they were like this is the guy who woed more than 20 up to 40 women this gnome
looking [ __ ] what this gnome looking [ __ ] s Quenton Warden James Johnson told a reporter in 1946 I
had to turn away a number of women who had no legitimate reason for calling but faked excuses in the hopes of getting a
chance to see him which ladies I have to say let's get it together okay let's make a collective promise to each other
to get it the [ __ ] together what are we doing what are we doing did y watch it
ladies he's killing wives he's killing wives and taking their money or he's just straight up abandoning them after
robbing them blind what the [ __ ] do you want to see this man you know what it is
it's the I can fix mentality no one can fix this man you can't do it he hates women is it worth it no Queen fix
yourself no he was a gnome likee [ __ ] he's no no no but while in prison he took up writing and tried to
get his poetry published in papers around the country oh just what we need a tortured man's poetry no one was
interested in it so they didn't get a published uh he did find another way to keep himself in the Limelight though
beginning in 1925 he began a correspondence with Los Angeles journalist W Cliff Hill and he convinced
that reporter that he'd hidden his Treasure of more than $50,000 somewhere in Los Angeles I'm so sure over the
course of 5 years the newspaper Hill worked for published a series of Stories That Sent the public running all over
California deserts digging around for the treasure what are you doing believing this guy he duped countless
women and you are all running around looking for his treasure well and also his treasure is stolen from murdered
women yeah you want that so if you find that treasure you going to feel good about putting that in your goddamn bank
account hello like what are you doing that he literally stole that that's stolen money this is a Wendy eventually
it really is a at this point ma'am this is a Wendy this W eventually it came to light that the paper had agreed to pay
Hill $20,000 for the story and the series came to an end with most believing the story about the money was
like most things about James Watson a [ __ ] lie yep an article in the Los Angeles Times denounced Hill and the
newspaper for having duped the public writing incidentally Watson is very proud of the way in which he trapped
those he now considers his enemies so he did that just for fun he all fell for it
did and that's the thing it's like he's sitting behind bars just Laing yeah you can't let him have that power back there
[ __ ] nman and Lain oh in 1930 Hill sued Watson for $25,000 for causing him to waste 5 years of his life on Wild
Goose chases well you're stupid for doing that then Watson counter sued for $50,000 in Damages alleging Hill defamed
him you're in prison and in 1932 a judge threw both the cases is out and both of
them they would have to wait until Watson was freed from prison to pursue their [ __ ] cases that's the other
thing I'm like what the [ __ ] are you going to do with the money in prison he was like stop wasting my goddamn time
you idiots he was like I got better [ __ ] to do [ __ ] off in his life at San Quenton James Watson became a model
prisoner because what the [ __ ] else is he going to do he's a gnome likee [ __ ] and even became an
assistant to the chief medical officer at the prison who allowed that not I in 1939 he died bye of pneumonia at age 69
pretty early rest and distress and was buried in San quent's Boot Hill Cemetery in a grave marked only with his
[ __ ] prisoner number loves it see you later James [ __ ] Watson what a wild gnome likee [ __ ]
truly gnome like [ __ ] I'm never moving on from The Gnome of it all he's a gnome likee [ __ ] who [ __ ] that
guy truly a gnome likee woman hating [ __ ] and [ __ ] all honestly screw all the women that were like I'm going
to marry him while he's in prison I'm going to call him and view him like you guys suck tooa and his parents suck yeah
everybody everybody sucks except Catherine and all the women that he married yeah damn [ __ ] that guy what
shout out to Catherine though one cine girl unravels this motherfucker's entire years long scheme she said not on my
watch I don't think so I don't think so I do not think so one you're definitely not going to cheat on me and two here's
all the documents that I can provide to the [ __ ] investigators to take your ass down and three
what the [ __ ] is in your Satchel yeah what's in that goddamn Satchel she found
out she [ __ ] around and she found out but it worked out did but she saved lives she did she literally did
Catherine saved more lives I love it yeah I love I love a woman coming out on top hell yeah well and you know good
good on all these I will say good on all these um investigative agencies that work together cuz that could have that
could have been a big cluster show absolute [ __ ] show we probably never would have had the story had it gone the
other way it's true and crazy I had never heard of this before until audible was like hey check out this this title
and you said [ __ ] all right and I said wow that sounds absolutely thrilling okay audible okay so yeah uh you will
catch us and our special guest outside outside how about that or on the next episode where we discuss the title yeah
so check out Blue Beard on Audible and we will see it's a bonusy bon bonus EP you'll still get your two in your one
yeah uh so yeah we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you travel the
nation duping women everywhere what are you that guy from Sister Wives with the crunchy hair I'm trying to be an HH hes
[ __ ] but you're a gnome likee [ __ ] yeah what's that guy's name from Sister Wives Cody Cody Cody with
the crunch hair don't beat him don't beat him [Music] [Music]

When Kathryn Wombacher suspected her husband, Walter Andrew, of having an affair in the spring of 1920, she hired a private detective to follow him on one of his many “out-of-town” trips that he’d taken in their short marriage. However, rather than follow Walter out of town, the private detective tracked the man less than a mile from his home in Hollywood, where he discovered that Walter had indeed been carrying on a relationship with another woman—but that was to be the least of Kathryn’s worries.

Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!

References

Associated Press. 1920. "Police search for Montana girl is commenced ." Miles City Star, April 1: 1.

—. 1920. "Alleged wife believes Huirt 'woman hater'." San Francisco Chronicle, April 15: 1.

—. 1920. "Nine 'wives' killed by Bluebeard." Saskatoon Daily Star, May 11: 7.

Cameron, Jim. 2014. "The horrifying marriage career of James "Bluebeard" Watson." Cranbrook Daily Townsman, October 31.

Dowd, Katie. 2019. "'Object, matrimony': The forgotten tale of the West Coast's first serial bride killer." SF Gate, October 4.

Hoag, Ernest, and Edward Williams. 1922. "The Case of J.P. Watson, the Modern Bluebeard." Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 348-359.

Los Angeles Evening Express. 1920. "Huirt's latest wife here to clear mystery." Los Angeles Evening Express, April 14: 1.

Los Angeles Times. 1920. ""I'm crazy!" Bluebeard cries to the public." Los Angeles Times, May 4: 15.

—. 1920. "Watson confesses four wife-murders; married nearly a score of women." Los Angeles Times, April 30: 1.

—. 1920. "Watson's real name Boyd?" Los Angeles Times, April 27: 17.

—. 1920. "Watson's story of early life." Los Angeles Times, April 30: 1.

—. 1920. "Whoesale bigamy bared." Los Angeles Times, April 11: 1.

Rasmussen, Cecelia. 1997. "Quiet man left trail of dead wives." Los Angeles Times, August 31.

Sacramento Bee. 1920. "Watson given life sentence for murder of Nina Lee Deloney." Sacramento Bee, May 10: 1.

San Francisco Chronicle. 1920. "Burying ground of 'Bluebeard' thought found." San Francisco Chronicle, April 20: 6.

Whitaker, Alma. 1930. "Bluebeard's treasure hunt blows up--bang." Los Angeles Times, November 30: 19.

Zdeb, Chris. 2014. "Serial killer, bigamist had ties to Edmonton." Edmonton Journal, May 10: 2.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

James Watson, the Blue Beard killer, married and murdered multiple women, evading capture until his wife exposed him.

Key points

The Infamous Blue Beard Killer. Exploring the life of James P. Watson, a man with many aliases and dark secrets.
A Life of Lies. Watson's history is filled with deception and multiple identities.
The Complexity of His Crimes. Watson's murders and marriages are shrouded in mystery and confusion.
The Mysterious Deaths of Watson's Wives. Watson's wives drowned under suspicious circumstances, raising questions about his involvement.
Escalation of Violence. Watson's methods became increasingly brutal, culminating in a sledgehammer murder.
Watson's Arrest. After a series of murders and bigamy, Watson attempted suicide when confronted by police.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This story is very complex.

Introducing the case of James P. Watson.

4:45WatchDec 17, 2024

Tension

85/ 100High tension

More from Morbid | Podcast

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.