James Byrd Jr. /// Part 2 /// 164 | Forensic Files

explore today's musthave Trends and Innovative Styles at Mrs be's clearance and outlet shop oneof aind finds in
today's musthave Trends explore wall to--all deals Furniture flooring mattresses Home Accents seasonal
favorites and more discover unique new home decor pillows accessories and more there's something perfect for your style
and budget there's new inventory every day add up to 80% off suggested retail discover the style and savings of Mrs
be's clearance and Outlet when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands
at winning prices and with special financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your
mattress purchase helps give the gift of better sleep to children in need and US
Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today and make every snooze count financing is
subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] details [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that spent
the weekend playing reindeer games ladies and gentlemen the man that is guiding our flying garage ship he is the
captain it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
[Music] friend tonight we are drinking circus City IPA by Big Top Brewing Company
garage grade 3 and 3/4 bottle caps out of five hoppy mty and smooth and I would say it's a little sweet as well 6.8 ABV
check out big top Brewing Company and this week's beers is brought To Us by our good friends first up we have Meg in
Colchester UK no and Brooklyn we have our buddy Scott next we have John and cut a hey Wisconsin John says the West
Memphis 3 did it well I guess everybody has an opinion next up we have now from Hayden Lake Idaho I want to give a shout
out to our friend Sarah P and her husband two Buckey down in Benton Kentucky and last but not least a shout
out a longdistance shout out to Bianca listening in Beijing China so thanks to everybody for filling up the fridge for
this week's show if you want to help us out with next week's show go to True Crime garage and click on the Donate
button like I said yesterday the we like your jib shirts are going fast so they're going to sell out soon so if you
want one of those get those today at true Crim garage.com don't disrespect the captain make sure you get your shirt
that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
crime [Music] [Music] he was beating it was down this road here by the bridge and this road going
around here and they bought him out there and they started dragging him drug him up down the road and lost his keys
down there that's where they got all these circles was in the road and lost piece of Flesh there
and all down this road all way to the graveyard and that's where they unhooked me
at they lost the head before you got to the gray yard on the right that's all I see well I didn't see
that but I saw the little flesh out there [Music] on Saturday June 6th 1998 49-year-old
James Bird Jr he spent the day hanging out with his friends and family he attended two different parties and after
the second party he left there quite late that night about 1 to 1:30 a.m. that evening now he was walking home his
apartment was on the other side of town and this is when he encountered three men in a pickup truck who had offered
him a ride the next day at 7:00 a.m. on Sunday his body was found located on the
road and in very bad condition his head and his shoulder were found almost a mile away way where we left off we were
in the middle of the investigation and they were getting ready to bring in the FBI and this is
when they are talking to Shawn Barry now Barry was one of the three men believed
to have been in the pickup truck that evening James Bird Jr had been spotted by eyewitnesses in a pickup truck matching
that description well when the sheriff's department when they have Shawn Barry and the other two men in custody and
they're talking with them remember we said that we they were probably trying to get them to turn on one another right
it was it was becoming clear to the to the sheriff that these three men were very likely involved in this murder and
that they had committed it together if you can get these guys to start turning on each other you're going to get
information that can help you put together a case and take these dirt bags to trial yeah and they believe that this
was a hate crime and that's why they wanted to get the FBI involved and and once once they started telling the
suspects that that's when we get Shawn Barry who gets the encouragement that he needed to tell us what he what happened
according to him his side of the story as to how this murder took place well Barry states that they saw he was
traveling with the other two men Bill King and Russell Brewer and that they had saw James Bird walking that night
and this this was like we said in the early morning hours this would be about 1:30 2 a.m. right and he was heading
across town back to his apartment sha Barry says that it was he in fact that had offered James bird a ride James Bird
accepts the ride there's a little bit of the communication between the two that seems a little strange to me um the way
that Barry puts this years later is that he offered he said hey do you want us to
drive you home mhm and to which he says James Bird Jr said well I'll ride around
with you guys for a while and we talked about James and his character and who he
was he was he was a happy guy he was in a good mood he liked to socialize with people he was known for being kind of a
good timing guy right and sometimes you you have individuals you're you're one such individual that sometimes when you
get going mhm in your party mode you're not going to stop you know so it could have been as simple as yeah you could
drive me home or what are you guys up to so Shawn Barry said that he had stopped
and offered the ride to bird early reports speculated that uh James bird and Mr Barry may have known each other
because I guess they had the same parole officer the Associated Press reported that this was a possibility now Sheriff
rolls I believe it was he that that said at one point that the two could have seen each other at you know when they
have to go visit their parole officer mhm um according to sha Barry he claims that he did not know James Bird but he
did in fact recognize him as someone who frequently walked around the town of Jasper
Texas Bill king after James bird is in the truck Bill king became upset and be he began cursing so bill is upset with
Shawn for giving James bird a ride mhm the men sto stopped at a convenience store and this is when Bill King is
going to take over the driving so he drives the men down a dirt road all four men are back in the truck
at this point during this short drive Bill King says to Barry that he is about to scare
Mr James Bird so instead of taking James Bird Jr home Barry Brewer and King they drove
East out of Jasper and they stopped at a small clearing in the woods now this is
where investigators believe that there was some kind of fight in this clearing because of the upturn grass the
Disturbed dirt the broken beer bottles right according to Shawn Barry Bill King and Russell Brewer opened up James
Bird's door and they were trying to pull him out of the truck James was hanging on to the door with both hands trying to
keep himself inside the truck right I won't repeat all that was said according to Shawn Barry as far as you
know what what the other two men were saying at this time but at some point Bill King has announced to the group
that he would like to kill James Bird right the group according to sha Barry's story at this point should be well aware
of what very likely could happen next and even more horrifying and terrifying is that James bird is now aware of what
this guy's intentions are mhm Barry says that he was he was horrified and he was
helpless and he sat there and he watched as the two men pulled James bird from the truck once James was out of the
truck sha Barry he got he got between Bill King and James Bird telling Bill King to stop what they were doing Bill
King then threatens sha Barry's life sha Barry says that at this point in the story James bird is very intoxicated
he's he's very drunk the other two men took James Bird to the back of the truck sha Barry says there was no problem
getting bird to the back of the truck I mean he's once they get him out he's being overpowered by two people and
according to Barry James bird is very intoxicated so this this would make sense that
they're able to easily overpower the man Shawn Barry does not explain how the men
got James Bird to the ground I don't think he knows for certain but he does say it was no trouble for the men to get
him to the ground so there's a possibility it's not just two onone it's it's a good possibility there's three on
one and we're just not getting the full story so James bird is now he's on the ground now
and Bill King is stomping him and we have Russell Brewer is kicking him like straight on right and sha Barry says the
two men are laughing while they are doing this James bird was now trying to get he's attempting to get up so he's
like on all fours but he's still down and Russell Brewer got a can of spray paint out of the back of the
pickup truck he then sprayed James bird in the face with it James Bird said nothing when this
happened he he almost didn't even react to it right Russell Brewer then kicked him in the head very hard and it was at
this point that Shawn Barry says that this was the last time that he saw James Bird move sha Barry says he was
petrified to the point that he wet his pants this next part is a bit unclear but at
this point either one of two things happened and and I'll explain this Shawn Barry is either inside the truck or sha
Barry had run off but for whatever reason he is not he's not in a location where he can
see what's going on at this point in his story right this is again what he is claiming yes this is what he's telling
the investigators so he says that he at this point this is when they must have chained James Bird up to the truck
because he for whatever reason did not see this take place so let's go through this statement
a little bit here um not not this direct one but but all parts of it okay so so this statement is backed up with some of
the evidence that we spoke about with some of the evidence that was found you we spoke about in the clearing the
investigators found several items that could have um let's say fallen out of a truck maybe while someone was trying to
be pulled out of that vehicle right um we also saw evidence of a struggle that took place so Shawn sha Barry does tell
us these things in his story and some of the evidence that was found backs portions of this story up and we also
have the witness statements saying that they saw James bird in the truck as well okay so at this
point the unfortunately James bird is has been he's been beat up and he's been chained to the back of this truck mhm
they started dragging him down a dirt road now Shawn Barry says that the truck was so loud that he didn't hear anything
so so now he's back in the truck with the other two individuals correct he says that at one point Russell Brewer
looked back behind the truck and he said look he's rolling and he said look he's bouncing
up and down referring to James Bird behind the truck right Sha Barry says that the other two
men seem to be having fun at pointing out what was going on he said the the truck then greened
around a bend and James B Bird's body swung off the road this must be when it when his body struck the the Ragged edge
of this Culvert this is what severed his his right arm his shoulder his neck and
head from his body sha Barry says that King continued to drive for a little ways and then he
stopped the truck he got out of the vehicle and and he untied Bird's lifeless body he then threw the chain in
the back of the truck mhm so James Bird Jr he was dragged to um Huff Creek Road which would be roughly about 3
miles approximately from the location where police belied that this this fight had it had ensued MH so we have King
Barry and Brewer they they dumped James Bird's mutilated remains and apparently they went to a
barbecue of some sort I don't know if this was at the the girlfriend of um Bill Kings you know at her house or what
but this would be pretty late yes well or early depending on how you look at it but so they they go to a party
afterwards yeah this this could be you know you never know with with some of these stories you may when when you have
somebody say yeah they showed up here at 4: in the morning right well what was it
well it was a barbecue at one point or it was a party at one point and now it's just 4 in the morning leftover you know
flops on the floor right well okay so there was a lot of questioning going on early in this investigation at this
point in the investigation one it was not known how long James bird was alive during the dragging but Brewer claimed
that Bird's throat had been slashed before he was tied to the truck and then dragged later we would learn that for
forensic evidence suggests that bird had been attempting to keep his head up um when he was being dragged trying to keep
his head up off of the road uh an autopsy suggested that James bird was alive for much of the dragging
and died only after his head shoulder and right arm were severed from his body from hitting the Culvert at this
point you know the the investigators are not only shocked at what they've heard but it's also backing up kind of what
their theory was from early in the investigation as to how this went down not no not necessarily that um sha Barry
you know he didn't participate in this thing he just happened to be there in P his pants not that part of it it's just
backing up their thought that these three are the ones that are in fact responsible for this horrible crime yeah
and these three alone well with that information now they're going to have Shawn Barry lead
them to the chain he will take them that day on that Monday to find the chain that was used to tie James Bird Jr to
the back of that truck right the one that the possum King put back into the truck yes and I guess they find this
chain in the in someone's backyard that they must have they must have drove around afterwards and dumped it
somewhere right um but he with his help they are able to locate this chain so think about this for a second here
Captain we have James Bird Jr 49 full of life out with friends and family on Saturday a
good a good guy just regular good dude walking home gets offered a ride and within hours his body's found you're
talking about 700 a.m. on Sunday morning people were getting up and they're they're starting their day they're
cooking breakfast they're they're going getting dressed and going off to church you know they're starting their day and
people people found this body people found his body these people that were getting up to start their day the last
day of their weekend well right and if if James doesn't get in that truck maybe he's waking up and getting uh going to
church himself and just and just within hours of the location of this of finding
the body MH we have our first suspect rounded up his two idiot friends are are gobbled up by police quickly after that
right they're interrogated for quite some time which they we have a bunch of evidence at the scene yes we've located
a bunch of evidence and then by Monday morning we have a confession and by by I believe it must have been around noon on
Monday one of the suspects took them to find the chain so this is happening very
quickly right which but that's the murder weapon basically yeah and this is why you know I was I you know in in the
last episode I kept saying how much I like this Sheriff rolles um and this is why he is dealing
with think about this for a second small town yeah small Sheriff's Department according to his interview this might
have been only his second murder investigation in his tenure right you know these things murders don't happen
very often in this town this type of crime doesn't happen that often in the entire nation yeah in the world yeah and
so we're talking about a guy that really could have you know when you want to when you want to talk about experience
and sometimes we talk about in these cases where well they they botched the investigation and they bungled the
investigation because they're not experienced because they're just some small town Keystone Cops M well that's
not the case here and that's why I love this Sheriff rolls he's dealing with something that no Town should ever have
to experience a crime that never should have happened and he's in there's no textbook on this and he's investigating
this thing and things are happening very quickly and I think they're handling it I mean this they they could write a
textbook on this yeah and the the problem here is if you don't get this right if you mess this up um this is
this is very bad if you mess this up you know it's one thing if you you know botch something here here or there but
this is a horrific crime these are horrific individuals and you need to make sure that you cross every te dot
every eye to make sure that these guys never see the light of day ever again and Sheriff rolls when asked you know
why did you contact the FBI he said very bluntly you know I I didn't know the definition of a hate crime right but I
knew this was one right he didn't have to to know that to to get the FBI involved yeah so after all this goes
down after the questioning and after locating the chain and the evidence that you spoke of the sheriff's department
they do charge Shawn Barry uh who is 23 years old Bill King who is 23 as well and Lawrence Russell Brewer 31 at the
time with murder now the district attorney called for adding kidnapping charges to these
charges this would make it a capital crime so once we have we know that chain was involved we know that they're
chaining a man up and they're taking him away that's kidnapping and now we have it we
have the situation where we have kidnapping and murder charges facing these three
guys this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues
this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even anxiety about it but adding something
new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings therapy can be a bright spot something
to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to manage everything going on if you're
thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com Garay to get 10% off your first month that's better help
hp.com garage explore today's must have Trends and Innovative Styles at Mrs B's clearance and outlet shop one-of aind
finds in today's musab Trends explore wall to- wall deals Furniture flooring mattresses Home Accents seasonal
favorites and more discover unique new home decor pillows accessories and more there's something perfect for your style
and budget there's new inventory every day at up to 80% off suggested retail discover the style and savings of Mrs
be's clearance and Outlet dreaming of overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family
from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and
voice feedback technology are GameChanger dive into 25 Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a
kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to
rosettastone.com now and save 50% all right we're back cheers mates cheers Captain well holding three
capital murder trial is a costly Endeavor for any County but keep in mind we're talking about a small County in
this particular case yeah this forced officials to raise local property taxes by
12% that's a that's a huge hike when you think about that well this results in Mr
Bill King's lawyers asking that his trial be moved arguing that the tax increase would make it impossible
possible to draw an impartial jury Bill King is going to be the first of these three guys that is brought to
trial regarding the James BG Jr murder possum King and it was Judge Joe Bob golden of State of the State District
Court that ordered that the trial go ahead that that we're not going to move it to another venue there's not going to
be a change of venue we're going to continue with it here in this County and the prose uters they said publicly that
they were confident that they would be able to get an impartial panel uh of jurors that could be found for this
trial mhm they were able to come up with a jury of 12 this ended up being seven men and five women and it was 11 of
these members were white the sole black member of the jury was a corrections officer and in fact strange thing here
is he would have been about the same age as Bill King and I believe that they may
have attended um one of the same schools together at some point in their lives here's a weird thing here captain
and I don't know that it I don't know that it weird is the right term it's more that just I think this is something
that's lesser known MH or maybe lesser accepted there's no way of me saying this without getting somebody sending me
a rotten email but um I'll send you one look here's the thing I'll send you a nice one when when we do these shows
when we sit here in the garage and we and we retell these stories when we when we pull together all this information
and we're telling you about these cases about these real life events that happened uhhuh we can't sit here worried
about whether what's how it's going to be received what we say we can't sit here and worry about okay somebody's
going to come down upon us for saying this or they're going to come down upon us if we say this way so really what you
just do is you just report the truth okay so when you send a rotten email keep in mind that we're reporting the
truth to you first of all and second of all these are not the captain and I did not drive to jper Texas interview a
bunch of people and put this story together to report it back to you no we are piecing the story together through
you didn't want to go with me so we're piecing the story together through Court documents as well as newspaper articles
that were written by other people and some of them being local reporters now this is something that I have heard and
read before in other cases but it certainly translates to this one you know we said that they wanted to get
impartial jurors obviously on this panel well a problem that you have when you have a case of this magnitude and it's
this is a death PTY casee okay let's be very clear about that mhm what you tend to see happen is when
you're trying somebody and the penalty the possible penalty is death well you have to interview these potential jurors
and you have to decide if they fit on the panel what tends to happen in a lot of
these cases you know you ask well why is is 11 members of the jury white and only
one of them African-American well one it just May so have happened to work out that way you know we don't we don't know
the details but in a lot that's probably what the prosecution wanted well in a lot of these
cases what ends up happening is they dismiss a lot of African-American potential jurors because what tends to
happen is they don't they're not as um let's say enthusiastic about the death penalty as as uh white people may
be okay um and this could be this is due to several factors um one one it's the religious aspect and two um
unfortunately in this country predominantly when we see somebody that is has been charged and convicted
wrongfully of a crime it tends to be African-American people so they they have a better understanding that it's
not a perfect system it doesn't work 100% 100% of the time therefore unfortunately you know we know this has
happened and it and it breaks your heart but there has been at some point some innocent person wrongly convicted and
then sentenced to die and They carried out that sentence right and I think that that's something that um can get lost on
some people and that's why you see in these death penalty cases that it tends to be a little more white people on the
group now the sole the sole African-American member of the panel was actually elected as the foreman of the
jury okay now some things that came out in trial here keep in mind this is Bill king that's being tried
first one thing that came out was the the forensic pathologist Tommy Brown he he brought to court and testified IED as
an expert witness stating that James bird was alive and writhing in pain until he was struck till he struck that
Culvert that decapitated him yeah um he stated that there was evidence that proved that James Bird had fought to
survive while he was chained by the ankles to the truck and being dragged he said this would have taken place for
about 2 miles along that paved Country Road stating he was attempting to keep his head off of the paved
and he was C he was conscious during this time now brown was the one that performed the official autopsy on bird
and he said that Bird's elbows and knees were Ground to the bone as he tried to prop himself up off of the road he
stated that the victim would have been very tired uh very worn out trying to do a lot of things trying to keep the pain
from being so severe he probably would have been SW spping one portion of his body for another trying to get pressure
off of other areas bird's head and right arm and shoulder were torn from his torso when
he struck that concrete drainage covert as the truck swerved from side to side the path pathologist said it's his
opinion that bird was alive up until that point so one thing I want to point out here that the pathologist said
they're dragging this guy and they're they're they're weaving this truck as they're doing this going down this
street they found remains of James bird in 81 places along that stretch of road Bill King's
defense well it was a little different than the other two defendants that would later have their trial dates his defense
was basically that he wasn't there that this crime went down and it was not committed by him because he was not
there his evidence to prove that is he states that there was a phone call he was during this time that James Bird Jr
was killed that he was on the phone with his girlfriend making arrangements so that he would end up there later that
that you know we keep saying later but it's so early in the morning it's confusing
if if you're saying the right terms there so that's his statement um well that does not go with the evidence
they've that they found they determined that he was on the phone closer to around like 4 in the
morning and this would have been well after James Bird Jr had been killed so the timeline's not matching up to start
with MH other evidence against Bill King is obviously we have Shawn Barry's testimony we also have um a cigarette
butt that was found at the location where the body was eventually located right and that DNA DNA evidence this
cigarette but uh was it was Bill Kings and we have the lighter that was Bill Kings yeah the posum king lighter so his
defense regarding those two items was simply this one that the lighter had been stolen from him about a week before
the murder had been committed yeah and two that the the truck if if it was in fact Shawn Barry's truck that was used
and he was not present with Shawn Barry that it's likely that he had put out a cigarette at some point in Shawn Barry's
ashtray and that when these men were removing James bird from the truck when that struggle went down that the astray
would have been kicked and knocked to the ground leaving cigarette butts and leaving this uh evidence behind at the
scene right what police and what the prosecutors were able to lay out out to the jury is that there's some other
problems with this story because remember we said that they were at a party before they got angry about
somebody being at the party and they left right well people at that party said no we saw Bill King using that
lighter that night so he had it with him during this party so so days after he says it was stolen from him and then
second of all we have um Sean barries he we have his statement and we have this backed up by some other people
that the truck had been recently cleaned it had been recently cleaned out and sha
Barry's statement was that the ashtray had been emptied and cleaned out prior to that day's events right so it it'd be
a cigarette from at least that day yeah and here's the other thing okay let's say be let's say Bill King you were able
to confuse us and and convince us that you weren't there using these these other stories which we know are not true
right remember we said that he had been kicking James Bird Jr right and he had also walked and trampled all over the
the crime scene yeah they found DNA evidence they found DNA evidence of James Bird Jr on his Footwear on Bill
King's Footwear right so let me just go over this real quick so we have eyewitnesses putting them all three
together that night mhm uh just a little bit before uh James would have been picked up we have DNA evidence of the
cigarette butt yes uh that was found there we have the lighter that was found there um which probably has his DNA
evidence on it too and now we have James Bird's DNA evidence on um possum King's
shoes correct or boots so it only took the jury of 12 it only took them it was like 2 and a half hours mostly white
people yeah that decided that uh Bill King a white supremist should die by lethal injection for the murder of James
Bird junor so found guilty and sentenced to die and after the death sentence was
announced um there was a priest that had read a statement from the this is from Bill King's father okay that said please
pray for the bird family who have endured an unimaginable pain and loss please pray for these jurors who have
shouldered a terrible burden please pray for our town of Jasper a community that
remains strong though scarred by this unspeakable act now the younger Mr King uh Bill King
who was on trial also left a written statement behind and as he was taken away to
prison he left this statement that said though I remain adamant about my innocence it's been obvious from the
beginning that this community would get what they desire so I close with the words of Francis Yaki the promise of
success is with the man who is determined to die proudly when it's no longer possible to live proudly and it
was signed sincerely John W King and that was from Francis [ __ ] yeah yeah well on his way out of
the courthouse when they were taking Bill King out of the courthouse and onto prison um well yeah he okay so he's
asked by reporters if he has anything to say to the bird family at this point Bill King smirked and he responded with
an Obin um what did he say um I I would prefer not to say it myself if you want to you can go ahead
the thing is I don't know what he said well then you'll have to locate that he said something extremely rude to the
family of of a murder victim whether he's guilty or not okay um well St let me stop that and you tell me all right
we're back magic of podcast uh so what he said when ask if he had anything to say to the bird
family he said um you can suck my dick is what he said yeah and you know I hesitated to tell that story in its
entirety because because of this um look cuz you're a good boy well Bill King is
is a horrible man and if there if there is a hell I hope he gets there okay but the thing is Captain you know we got to
tell the whole story like we just said we got to tell the truth and to be perfectly clear he was in an interview
and I think this would have been two or three years after the crime or two or three years after he was sentenced
anyway during this interview he was asked why he would say that to his victim's family right and he stated that
he had while he had nothing nice to say to the bird family in this interview he was clearing up that that was not he was
not directing that comment to the bird family right they were escorting him and as they escort such a pile of dog [ __ ]
that people in the crowd are going to yell stuff at him yeah there the the crowd is taunting him he's just been
sentenced to death he's being walked off to prison and they're taunting him they're saying horrible things to him he
was responding with something horrible back at one of those persons to which then a reporter jumps in front and has a
microphone and says you got anything to say to the bird family and it that's how
according to Bill king that's how that went down who knows again but this this is very similar to him explaining away
like pieces of evidence oh just happen stance you know yeah like no you're you're a giant pile of [ __ ] well the
thing is if you if you want to look at it from the opposite direction and say that that's what his intentions were
that he did intend to say that um you you obviously have plenty of evidence to believe that he would have said that
because of we've we've seen look and when we say there's some people that are hearing about this case for the first
time today and they're going well white supremist how do you how do you know he just said some things how do we know
what really happened no they found plenty of evidence in his dwelling that he was not only a white supremist but he
was wanting to start an organization that was going to do horrible things to African-Americans um you have tattoos
all over your body about it yeah there's no question of who this guy was and so when you see how dumb and ignorant he
must be to have those beliefs and to want to organize such a group then it's very quick and very easy to believe that
he would have been dumb enough as he's being carded out of court to say something that stupid to the public
regarding his victim's family knowing that he would have appeals to face knowing that you know what in the in the
end the people that that sentence you to death is the community yeah in the end and if if you upset them
and if you piss them off and you do a crime this bad and you show No Remorse absolute absolutely no remorse for what
you've done this community is going to make sure that death sentence gets carried out well and this is not the
sentence he should have got anyways I mean if you're going to have the death penalty right then I say go full out now
I don't believe in the death penalty because of the idea that there could be a innocent person that is uh tried and
sentenced to death and then that's carried out and just one innocent person dying from something is too much in my
mind but if you're going to have it it's the idea of eye for an eye and so if you're going to do that then the
possum King you know uh let me get some guys from Jasper or let's round up some of my buddies and let me stop and kick
the [ __ ] out of this guy and chain him to the back of a truck that's what should happen to this individual we
still have two trials to get through and as I said Bill King's defense was a little bit different than what Shawn
Barry's would be and Russell Brewers would be let's go over Brewers first yeah because he was actually tried
second so Bill King's defense was he was innocent he was not there he didn't he didn't you know right liar he didn't
have anything to do with this murder well Russell Brewer his statement is going to be that well yeah he was there
but he didn't take he didn't participate in any of the actions that led to James
Bird's death so he's going to be similar that he was just yeah that he was just there he was he was in a situation that
he couldn't control and things got out of hand and he was a witness to this not a participant right but we've heard this
story before haven't we yeah and so let's go let's go into that we're going to kind of mesh these other two trials
together because they're very similar in this sense okay Shawn Barry his defense
was pretty much the same thing yes he was there he was a witness to the situation he was not a participant in
the situation so in both trials what you end up having Captain is you have Shawn
Barry repeating the story that I told you earlier that he told to investigator right uh he's going to put the blame on
Russell Brewer and Bill King and then you want to flip that over in the other trial you're going to have Russell
Brewer who's going to put all the blame on Shawn Barry and Bill King right right
right so the only difference between the two that I noticed right away uh would be that that Russell Brewer did get a
change of venue for some reason um and then Shawn Barry did not so two of the trials were held in Jasper and the other
one was not well it could have had something to do with those two guys were Jasper res residents for a while so
maybe that's what it was and maybe because Brewer was from a different County he could have had a different um
address or something and maybe the lawyers could do some wiggling or finagling so they could get to a
different venue I think that in Brewer's case and I'm I'm going off of memory this didn't make it to my notes here but
I think in Brewer's case the reason why they were able to get the change of venue was because it was the trial that
immediately followed Bill Kings right where and because Bill King was guilty and very obviously guilty um I think
Brewers attorneys were able to present that it was going to be very tough for him to get a fair trial there now with
Barry's case with Shawn Barry's case I think because he was whether he's telling the 100% truth or not we will
probably never know however he was the one that showed some ability of helping out and
assisting the police in their investigation by telling them some kind of story by Leading them to the chain
where I think because of those actions the judge was pretty certain he was going to get a fair trial well the
conclusion to these trials Russell Brewer he was found guilty of murder and kidnapping and he too would be sentenced
to death now John Barry the jury decided that they were not going to uh they were
going to spare him the death penalty in his trial we had the situation where we have Russell Brewer who testified that
Shawn Barry had cut James Bird's throat before bird was tied to the truck right the jury decided that there was not a
lot of evidence to support this claim so therefore you know like we said we have
each guy basically the same picture they're just taking themselves out of the picture yeah I don't know one thing
I could not get to the bottom of in this case Captain was was his throat actually
cut because this was this was kind of a big deal in the trial whether that it pointed towards more guilt by Shawn
Barry than than what he came forward with I couldn't find anything that definitively said that that had happened
now unfortunately um as as we know given the the the factors of the crime they may not have been able to determine that
right and I think a couple things here I think one it's possible that uh Brewers
defense basically just mimicked what they could get from Barry's defense mhm um and if that's the case then they're
just going to you know um Barry saying that the throat was cut so therefore we're going to say that it was Barry
yeah um who knows I would and this is going to sound awful but uh there's a part of me that doesn't want to
believe um and I I don't want to believe that he was alive when he was being draged right
right right yeah yeah it sounds awful but when you put thought into it it's it's it's a thought of Mercy in a way um
the thing here is they found you know whether you want to believe Barry's story or Brewer story or whatever I do
believe without Shawn Barry caving like he did and telling them what happened or
at least his version of what happened I think it would have been a little tough to would been harder yes it would have
been harder to get Bill King convicted it would have certainly been harder to get Russell Brewer convicted now however
I say that but they did find DNA evidence of all three of these guys at the crime scene and this would have been
on cigarette butts and and beer Bott 98 right I mean our our understanding of DNA technology was wasn't that great
then mhm so as far as the jury was concerned maybe they wouldn't and indict these guys they were also able to prove
that tire marks found in the area did in fact come from the tires on Barry's pickup truck so there's a lot of
evidence that that points to the guilt of these guys unfortunately we only get berries
version and Brewers version of what actually happened in all likelihood you know I I they did present people at
Barry's trial that said he wasn't a racist I don't believe that um maybe he wasn't at one point in his life I I
don't know how that works to be honest with you um but I think that I think all three of these guys were absolutely
involved in this horrible crime I think we're not getting the full story from either bear or Brewer right and King's
not talking I mean it's it's a mixture you know in every one of these cases that we cover Captain they they break
your heart okay they break your heart first and then after that they break your brain they break your brain because
you're trying to figure out how are people even capable of doing such horrible things to one another yeah and
in each one of these cases because of of the Heartbreak and because of of the pain that that that I have to take in
from from looking at these cases I'm looking for I'm looking for a little tidbit a little morsel of something that
can make me smile at some point during this case I was able to find a big one of those later and we'll talk about that
a little bit later but while we're on our way to that the F the the first tidbit that I found that made me smile
was that when Bill King was transported I don't know how many facilities actually handle the executions of these
inmates and it may be more than one but the facility that he was transferred to there is an
intake facility for all of the death penalty uh death row inmates and the name of that intact
um the name of that facility is James Bird Jr um it would have a different middle name but there's a little bit of
uh that's odd it's odd and it has the the the name has no relation to are victim um but it it kind of I don't know
it's it's almost a wink it's a little wink a wink and a nod yeah yeah it's almost but it's almost a little wink
from uh James you know in heaven looking down and and going hey I got you you know so so two of these guys were
sentenced to death uh one of them has actually been executed his appeals ran out um and this was Lawrence Russell
Brewer he was killed in September 21st of 2011 um he he is known for something else as well as committing this horrible
crime he listen well listen to this this is you know where we had that wink and Nod to feel good about for a second
there he he gave an interview shortly before he was sentenced before he was put to death and in this interview
Brewer expressed No Remorse for his crimes and in fact he told a Houston newspaper or Houston News Channel I'm
sorry that as far as any regrets I have no regrets no I'd do it all over again to tell you the truth yeah piece of [ __ ]
so he just took away our wink and our nod but but know that his sentence was carried out before his execution though
Brewer ordered a large meal you know we've talked about this before you get your last meal when you're on death row
and he ordered a large meal that included get ready for this I'm ready um it included two chicken fried steaks a
triple meat bacon cheeseburger a large bowl of fried okra a pound of barbecue three fajitas a meat lovers Pizza a pint
of ice cream and a slab of peanut butter fudge with lots of crushed peanuts in it
however he did not not eat any of this he ordered all of this food and ate none of it just when you think you couldn't
dis like a guy anymore well what this prompted was the Texas prison prison officials they ended the 87-year-old
tradition of giving special last meals to condemned inmates so look I'm not going to lie as a true crime fan uh I
enjoy talking about the last meal yeah it's weird it's of those guilty pleasures where you're like I shouldn't
enjoy this enjoy it but I do but I find it fascinating what people would come up
with their last meal but but there's a part of me that just goes hey you know these animals don't deserve to pick
their last meal you know their last meal they should go hungry let them feel hunger for a while and nothing against
the Texas prison officials but with an order like this come on we know something's up here you know like
shouldn't it be like okay you get this you get this plate and it's 15 by 12 and whatever you can fit on it that's it you
know or or you have a dollar amount so now nowadays the um before an inmate is executed in the state of Texas now they
just eat whatever the other inmates eat whatever the meal is yeah right why why should they treat you any different you
know so the other two guys are still in prison we have uh Bill King who at some point will be executed for this
uh murder he still has some pending appeals um he's running out of them we have Shawn Barry who is in prison life
in prison um but he is he's actually eligible for parole and this won't be until June of
2038 you're not getting out no no no he's not getting out and if you get out somebody's going to kill you I I
wouldn't I wouldn't and well you you talk about somebody killing him he's actually in protective custody in prison
I don't know if it's still to this day but for a lot of the early portion of his sentence uh he was spending 23 hours
per day in a 8x6 foot cell with only one hour a day for exercise uh and this is obviously to protect him against like
you said Somebody's somebody he's got a Target on him for the rest of his days well as well as he should there was a
moment of reconciliation for the town of Jasper and this came when they they knocked down a rickety old fence that
for more than 100 years had separated the black Graves from the white graves in the Jasper City Cemetery yeah uh so
this was a segregated cemetery and they finally removed that they they did have a little ceremony and they had a prayer
vigil that went along with this ceremony to you know to to mark this occasion I do want to point out however that James
Bird Jr's grave site it does have a fence around it and that's not to keep him segregated from anybody else in the
cemetery it's because of this disturbing fact that at some point some teenagers they desecrated the grave you know they
I believe they kicked over The Headstone and there was some kind of damage done to the Grave I think they even spray
painted some things on the stone itself so that that fence was simply put up to protect that memorial for that man and
to stop people from doing that type of behavior well because you know this is a this is a hate crime and this was done
by three racist individuals and uh ignorance will breed ignorance and there will be some [ __ ] out there that will
go to James BG's grave and desecrate it in the in the name of white supremacy you know mhm so Captain you've been
you've been calm you've been pretty good uh trying to be in the garage I know you
you might be holding back a little bit is there anything you want to add uh well I think it's sad that if
that this case isn't as known as you know maybe it should be mhm I think to shed a light on something this
is these kind of murders took place very often for a long period of time and I think
this is a reminder of that and it's a horrific crime um especially to somebody that
seemed to be a good guy that lived by the Golden Rule he treated others like he wanted to be treated MH and then you
get these weak minded and weak individuals that come along with these weak and um
ignorant ideas on how the world should be and they carry out this horrible crime and then they go on and they lie
about it or some of them lie about it and the fact of the matter is that whether is Brewer or Barry when somebody
is trying to pull out James from the truck if one person jumps in now it's two against two at least it's a fair
fight but you didn't want it to be a fair fight cuz you're weak mhm and then if both of them are claiming well it's
the other guy or this well but if you both jump in to help James out now it's three against one and this murder never
takes place but you're weak and you're a giant pile of [ __ ] and like I said if if
you're going to have the death penalty then these guys should have been tied up to a truck and drugg down the street for
miles and that's what should have happened and if you're in that situation you know I look the captain's
absolutely right each one of these people are weak they're they're weak to together as a group they're weak as
individuals but even in this situation if you're in this situation and you're afraid or you're
scared at least go and get help at least go and get somebody at least go and tell
somebody what is happening or what may be about to happen so that you can put an end to this somehow in some way and
save a good guy's life this was a guy that was about the community this was he was somebody that was known he was a
fixture in the community well he's human and and it doesn't matter if you're black white yellow or red he's a human
right and and the and the fact of the matter is you either stand for something but or you fall for anything is that
what it's called right something like that but it's like you got to stand up and and I think
this should be a lesson to all of us I mean it's not just when a crime is going down or some uh brutal beating is
happening that's not when you need to stand up you need to stand up every time there is ignorance and anytime that you
see ignorance because if you don't if you don't say anything if you just turn the other cheek that is that is one of
the lessons here the here's these two guys that put the blame on other people I I think they put the blame on other
people because they wanted to save themselves I wanted I think they wanted to think you know maybe more so uh Barry
than Brewer because Brewer had no remorse and you know didn't want you know you're not even going to apologize
yeah you wouldn't change anything you know uh I think the what I'm trying to get at is it doesn't matter if it if
it's a violent attack or just a violent attack with words it is your duty or at least I think it's our duty as uh humans
to speak up and protect others and and it's just um it's just a horribly sad case and it's just not one that has been
talked about enough u in the True Crime Community I do want to talk about what I
thought was that tid bit of of joy and peacefulness that I needed when looking at this case and that was the bird
family I mean I could not say enough good things about these people regarding their their their class their um their
integrity just who they are as people a as individuals and as a group and I'm talking about James Bird's parents I'm
talking about his ex-wife I'm talking about his children Renee Ross and jimie I see I see a group of people that
are they don't they're not looking for revenge for their loved one's death right they they are looking to be strong
and to try to heal from this and try to this this is what makes them such great people even during their grieving
process they were trying to help their town and their Community heal from this as well and I think we could all learn a
lot from the bird family from from his parents from his children and how we should carry ourselves in our everyday
lives because I tell you what you know a a person's character is best judged in the time of tragedy and I can think of
no bigger tragedy than what we talked about today and then how this family conducted themselves afterwards yeah cuz
it'd be easy to to take um you know the hatred and the ignorance of these three individuals and then take that and
internalize it and then release that back onto the world mhm and and you know the bird family decided not to do that
and to be above that and I don't I don't know that I could and that's why I look
it I look at the bird family and I remind myself these are people that are they're smarter than me they're better
than me they're they're good people and there's things that I can learn from them you don't give don't don't beat
yourself up so you're not you're not that bad I mean you're pretty bad but here's where I will Pat myself smell
funny here's where I will Pat myself on the back and this is what I hope everybody else does just accept that
there's things that you can learn from good individuals like this accept that and try to learn from these people
that's what you do that's what a good person does we all have flaws we we can all work on them yeah one of the things
for me is um and and I think we both heard about this case back in 1998 uh but I was listening to I want to
say Like This American Life and um this case was just briefly mentioned uh in a rap lyric which reminded me of the case
and then I dove a little bit back into it and just felt that it was important important like I said to cover but one
of the things that talk about a u positive moment was for whatever reason like it's like I
didn't know James Bird but I but I know James Bird if that makes any sense I worked at a recording studio for many of
years and there was multiple artists that would say I'm going to put you on the map you know not
not that they're going to put Columbus on the map or anything but they're going to put me as a producer on the map and
uh so when you hear over and over uh these stories of James Bird telling everybody I am going to put
Jasper on the map and I just wonder if there was just some intuition that he had and his death doesn't have to be in
vain and it's up to us to carry on on not the legacy of his murder but what he was in his life and that would be
treating people the way you would want to be treated all right Captain I want to
thank you for everything this week thank you Colonel all right everybody thank you for joining us in the garage until
next time be good be kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause] [Music] explore today's must have Trends in
Innovative sty St at Mrs B's clearance and outlet shop one-of aind finds in today's musthave Trends explore wall
toall deals Furniture flooring mattresses Home Accents seasonal favorites and more discover unique new
home decor pillows accessories and more there's something perfect for your style
and budget there's new inventory every day at up to 80% off suggested retail discover the style and savings of Mrs
be's clearance and Outlet

James Byrd Jr. /// Part 2 /// 164

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.TrueCrimeGarage.com)

The Crime was unspeakable: June 7, 1998; 49 year old James Byrd jr. was picked up by three white men in Jasper, Texas. They took him to the woods where they beat James and chained him by his ankles to the rear bumper of their pick up truck. He was dragged three miles along country roads. His head was severed from his torso by a roadside culvert. Tonight we discuss a horrible senseless murder that shook the nation and forever scarred an East Texas town. Beer of the Week - Circus City by Big Top Brewing CompanyGarage Grade - 3 and 3/4 bottle caps out of 5

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

The episode details the murder of James Byrd Jr. and the trials of his killers, highlighting the investigation and courtroom proceedings.

Key points

The Discovery of the Chain. The chain used to tie James Bird to the truck is located with the help of a suspect.
James Bird Jr.'s Tragic Encounter. James Bird Jr. was offered a ride home, leading to a horrific fate.
Sheriff's Quick Action. The sheriff's department swiftly investigates the murder, leading to a confession.
Bill King Sentenced to Death. Bill King, a white supremacist, was found guilty of the murder of James Bird Jr. and sentenced to die by lethal injection.
Bill King's Controversial Statement. After his sentencing, Bill King made a rude remark to the victim's family, showcasing his lack of remorse.
Trial Outcomes. Russell Brewer was found guilty of murder and sentenced to death, while Shawn Barry avoided the death penalty.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

James Bird Jr. was found in very bad condition.

5:18WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

85/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.