James Byrd Jr. /// Part 2 /// 164 | Forensic Files

[Music] [Applause] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that spent the weekend playing reindeer games
ladies and gentlemen the man that is guiding our flying garage ship he is the captain it's good to be seen and it's
good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling my friend [Music] tonight we are drinking circus City IPA
by Big Top Brewing Company garage grade three and three quarter bottle caps out of five hoppy multi and smooth and I
would say it's a little sweet as well 6.8 ABV check out big top Brewing Company and this week's beer is brought
To Us by our good friends first up we have Megan Colchester UK Nova in Brooklyn we have our buddy Scott next we
have John and Cudahy Wisconsin John says The West Memphis Three did it well I guess everybody has an opinion next up
we have Nell from Hayden Lake Idaho I want to give a shout out to our friend Sarah P and her husband two Buckeyes
down in Benton Kentucky and last but not least a shout out a long distance shout
out to Bianca listening in Beijing China so thanks everybody for filling up the fridge for this week's show if you want
to help us out with next week's show go to True Crime garage.com and click on the Donate button and like I said
yesterday the we like your jib shirts are going fast so they're going to sell out soon so if you want one of those get
those today at truecrime garage.com don't disrespect the captain make sure you get your shirt that's enough of the
business everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
[Music] [Music] yes beaten if we found this road here by the bridge and just going around here
and he brought him out of there and they started dragging him drug moved down the
road lost his keys down there that's what he got all these circles in the road and
lost piece of finish there and all down this road all the way to the graveyard just waiting on hooked me
lost the head before he got to the graveyard on the right that's all I said well I didn't see that
but I saw a little flesh out there [Applause] [Music] on Saturday June 6 1998 49 year old
James Byrd Jr he spent the day hanging out with his friends and family he attended two different parties and after
the second party he left there quite late that night about one to 1 30 a.m that evening now he was
walking home his apartment was on the other side of town and this is when he encountered three men in a pickup truck
who had offered him a ride the next day at 7 A.M on Sunday his body was found located on the road
and in very bad condition his head and his shoulder were found almost a mile away where we left off we were in the
middle of the investigation and they were getting ready to bring in the FBI and this is when they are talking to
Sean Berry now Barry was one of the three men believed to have been in the pickup truck that evening
Jamesburg Jr had been spotted by eyewitnesses in a pickup truck matching that description well when the sheriff's
department when they have Sean Berry and the other two men in custody and they're
talking with them remember we said that they were probably trying to get them to
turn on one another right it was it was becoming clear to this to the sheriff that these three men were very likely
involved in this murder and that they had committed it together if you can get these guys to start turning on each
other you're going to get information that can help you put together a case and take these dirt bags to trial yeah
and they believed that this was a hate crime and that's why they wanted to get the FBI involved and once once they
started telling the suspects that that's when we get Sean Berry who gets the encouragement that he needed to tell us
what he what happened according to him his side of the story as to how this murder took place
well Barry states that they saw he was traveling with the other two men Bill King and Russell Brewer and that they
had saw James Byrd walking that night and this was like we said in the early morning hours this would be about 1 32
a.m right and he was heading across town back to his apartment Sean Berry says that it was he in fact that had offered
James Byrd a ride James Bird accepts the ride there's a little bit of the communication between
the two that seems a little strange to me um the way that Barry puts this years later is that
he offered he said hey do you want us to drive you home and to which he says James Bird Jr said
well I'll ride around with you guys for a while and we talked about James and his character and who he was he was he
was a happy guy he was in a good mood he liked to socialize with people he was known for being kind of a good timing
guy right and sometimes you you have individuals you're one such individual that sometimes when you get going in
your party mode you're not going to stop you know so it could have been as simple
as yeah you could drive me home or what are you guys up to so Sean Berry said that he had stopped and offered the ride
to bird early reports speculated that uh James bird and Mr Barry may have known each other because I guess they had the
same parole officer the Associated Press reported that this was a possibility now
Sheriff rolls I believe it was he that that said at one point that the two could have seen each other at you know
when they have to go visit their parole officer um according to Sean Berry he claims
that he did not know James Bird but he did in fact recognize him as someone who frequently walked around the town of
Jasper Texas Bill king after James Byrd is in the truck Bill king became upset and became
he began cursing so bill is upset with Sean for giving James Byrd a ride the man stopped at a convenience store
and this is when Bill King is going to take over the driving so he drives the men down a dirt road
all four men are back in the truck at this point during this short drive Bill King says
to Barry that he is about to scare Mr James Bird so instead of taking Jamesburg Jr home
Barry Brewer and King they drove East out of Jasper and they stopped at a small clearing in the woods
now this is where investigators believed that there was some kind of fight in this clearing because of the upturned
grass the Disturbed dirt the broken beer bottles right according to Sean Berry Bill King and
Russell Brewer opened up James Bird's door and they were trying to pull him out of the truck
James was hanging on to the door with both hands trying to keep himself inside the truck right I won't repeat all that
was said according to Sean Berry as far as you know what what the other two men were saying
at this time but at some point Bill King has announced to the group that he would
like to kill James Byrd right the group according to Sean Berry's story at this point should be well aware of what very
likely could happen next and even more horrifying and terrifying is that James Byrd is now aware of what
this guy's intentions are barry says that he was he was horrified and he was helpless
and he sat there and he watched as the two men pulled James bird from the truck once James was out of the truck Sean
Berry he got he got between Bill King and James Byrd telling Bill King to stop what they were doing
Bill King then threatens Sean Berry's life Sean Berry says that at this point in
the story James bird is very intoxicated he's he's very drunk the other two men took James Byrd to the
back of the truck Sean Berry says there was no problem getting bird to the back of the truck I mean he's once I get him
out he's being overpowered by two people and according to Barry James bird is very intoxicated
so this this would make sense that they're able to easily overpower the man Sean Berry does not explain how the men
got James Byrd to the ground I don't think he knows for certain but he does say it was no trouble for the men to get
him to the ground so there's a possibility it's not just two-on-one it's it's good possibility
there's three on one and we're just not getting the full story so James bird is now he's on the ground now and Bill King
is stomping him and we have Russell Brewer is kicking him like straight on right and Sean
Berry says the two men are laughing while they are doing this James bird was now trying to get he's attempting to get
up so he's like on all fours but he's still down and Russell Brewer got a can of spray
paint out of the back of the pickup truck he then sprayed James bird in the face
with it James Bird said nothing when this happened he he almost didn't even react
to it right Russell Brewer then kicked him in the head very hard and it was at this point that Sean Berry says that
this was the last time that he saw James Bird move Sean Berry says he was petrified to the
point that he wet his pants this next part is a bit unclear but at this point either one of two things
happened and and I'll explain this Sean Berry is either inside the truck or Sean Berry had run off
but for whatever reason he is not he's not in a location where he can see what's going on at this point in his
story right okay again what he is claiming yes this is what he's telling the investigators
so he says that he at this point this is when they must have chained James Byrd up to the truck because
he for whatever reason did not see this take place so let's go through this statement a
little bit here um not not this direct one but but all parts of it okay so so this statement is
backed up with some of the evidence that we spoke about with some of the evidence
that was found and we spoke about in the clearing the investigators found several
items that could have um let's say fallen out of a truck maybe while someone was trying to be pulled
out of that vehicle right um we also saw evidence of a struggle that took place so Sean Sean Berry does
tell us these things in his story and some of the evidence that was found backs portions
of this story up and we also have the witness statements saying that they saw James Byrd in the
truck as well okay so at this point the unfortunately James Byrd is has been he's been beat up
and he's been chained to the back of this truck they started dragging him down a dirt
road now Sean Berry says that the truck was so loud that he didn't hear anything so
so now he's back in the truck with the other two individuals correct he says that at one point Russell Brewer
looked back behind the truck and he said look he's rolling and he said look he's bouncing up and
down referring to James Byrd behind the truck right Sean Berry says that the other two men
seem to be having fun at pointing out what was going on he said the the truck then careened
around a bend and James Bird's body swung off the road this must be when it when his body struck the the Ragged edge
of this culvert this is what severed his his right arm his shoulder his neck and
head from his body Sean Berry says that King continued to drive for a little ways and then he
stopped the truck he got out of the vehicle and he untied Bird's lifeless body he then threw the chain in the back of
the truck so Jamesburg Jr he was dragged to um Huff Creek Road which would be roughly about three miles
approximately from the location where police believe that this this fight had had ensued
so we have King Barry and Brewer they they dumped James Bird's mutilated remains and apparently they went to a
barbecue of some sort I don't know if this was at the the girlfriend of uh Bill Kings you know at her house or what
but this would be pretty late yes well or early depending on how you look at it but so they they go to a party
afterwards yeah this this could be you know you never know with with some of these
stories you may when you have somebody say yeah they showed up here at four in the morning right well what was it well
it was a barbecue at one point or it was a party at one point and now it's just four in the morning left over you know
flops on the floor right well okay so there was a lot of questioning going on early in this
investigation at this point in the investigation one it was not known how long James bird was alive during the
dragging but Brewer claimed that Bird's throat had been slashed before he was tied to
the truck and then dragged later we would learn that forensic evidence suggests that bird had been
attempting to keep his head up um when he was being dragged trying to keep his head up off of the road
uh and autopsy suggested that James bird was alive for much of the dragging and died only after his head shoulder and
right arm were severed from his body from hitting the culvert at this point you know the the investigators are not
only shocked at what they've heard but it's also backing up kind of what their theory was from early
in the investigation as to how this went down not no not necessarily that um Sean
Berry you know he didn't participate in this thing he just happened to be there and
pee his pants not that part of it it's just backing up their thought that these three are the ones that are in fact
responsible for this horrible crime yeah and these three alone well with that information now they're
going to have Sean Berry lead them to the chain he will take them that day on that
Monday to find the chain that was used to tie James Byrd Jr to the back of that truck right the one that the possum King
put back into the truck yes and I guess they find this chain in the in someone's
backyard that they must have they must have drove around afterwards and dumped it somewhere right
um but he with his help they are able to locate this chain so think about this for a second here Captain we have
Jamesburg Jr 49 full of life out with friends and family on Saturday a good a good guy
just regular good dude walking home gets offered a ride and within hours his body's found you're
talking about 7 A.M on Sunday morning people were getting up and they're they're starting their day they're
cooking breakfast they're they're going getting dressed and going off to church you know they're starting their day and
people people found this body people found his body these people that were getting up to start their day the last
day of their weekend well right and if if James doesn't get in that truck maybe he's waking up and getting uh going to
church himself and just and just within hours of the location of this of finding
the body we have our first suspect rounded up his two Idiot Friends Are gobbled up by police quickly after that
they're interrogated for quite some time which they have a bunch of evidence at the scene yes we've located a bunch of
evidence and then by Monday morning we have a confession and by by I believe it must have been around noon on Monday
one of the suspects took them to find the chain so that was happening very quickly right which but that's the
murder weapon basically yeah and this is why you know I was I you know in in the
last episode I kept saying how much I like this Sheriff roles um and this is why
he is dealing with think about this for a second small town right small Sheriff's Department
according to his interview this might have been only his second murder investigation in his tenure right
you know these things murders don't happen very often in this town this type of crime doesn't happen that
often in the entire nation in the world yeah and so we're talking about a guy that really could have
you know when you want to when you want to talk about experience and sometimes we talk about in these cases where well
they they botched the investigation and they bungled the investigation because they're not experienced because they're
just some small town Keystone Cops well that's not the case here and that's why I love the sheriff roles he's
dealing with something that no Town should ever have to experience a crime that never should have happened right
and he's and there's no textbook on this and he's investigating this thing and things are happening very quickly and I
think they're handling it yeah I mean this they they could write a textbook on this yeah and the the
problem here is the if you don't get this right if you've messed this up um this is this is very bad if you mess
this up you know it's one thing if you you know botch uh something here and or here or there but this is a horrific
crime these are horrific individuals and you need to make sure that you cross every T dot every eye to make sure that
these guys uh never see the light of day ever again and Sheriff rolls when asked
you know why did you contact the FBI he said very bluntly you know I I didn't know the definition of a hate crime
right but I knew this was one right he didn't have to to know that to get the FBI involved yeah so after all this goes
down after the questioning and after locating the chain and the evidence that you spoke of the sheriff's department
they do charge Sean Berry uh who is 23 years old Bill King who's 23 as well and Lawrence Russell Brewer 31 at the time
with murder now the district attorney called for adding kidnapping charges to these
charges this would make it a capital crime so once we have we know the chain was involved we know that they're
chaining a man up and they're taking him away that's kidnapping and now we have it we
have the situation where we have kidnapping and murder charges facing these three guys
thank you foreign all right we're back cheers mates cheers Captain while holding three capital
murder trials is a costly Endeavor for any County but keep in mind we're talking about a small County in this
particular case yeah this forced officials to raise local property taxes by 12 percent
that's a that's a huge hike when you think about that well this results in Mr Bill King's lawyers asking that his
trial be moved arguing that the tax increase would make it impossible to draw an impartial jury
Bill King is going to be the first of these three guys that is brought to trial regarding The James Bird Junior
murder possum King and it was Judge Joe Bob golden of State of the State District Court that ordered that the
trial go ahead that we're not going to move it to another venue there's not going to be a change of venue we're
going to continue with it here in this County and the prosecutors they said publicly
that they were confident that they would be able to get an impartial panel uh of
jurors that could be found for this trial they were able to come up with a jury of 12. this ended up being seven
men and five women and it was 11 of these members were white the sole black member of the jury was a corrections
officer and in fact a strange thing here is he would have been about the same age
as Bill King and I believe that they may have attended one of the same schools together at some point in their lives
here's a weird thing here captain and I don't know that it I don't know that it weird is the right term it's more that
just I think this is something that's lesser known or maybe lesser accepted there's no way of me saying this without
getting somebody sending me a rotten email but um I'll send you one look here's the
thing I'll send you a nice one when we do these shows when we sit here in the garage and we and we retell these
stories when we when we pull together all this information and we're telling you about these cases about these real
life events that happened we can't sit here worried about whether what's how it's going to be
received what we say we can't sit here and worry about okay somebody's going to come down upon us for saying this or
they're going to come down upon us if we say it this way so really what you just do is you just
report the truth okay so when you send a rotten email keep in mind that we're reporting the truth to you first of all
and second of all these are not the captain and I did not drive to Jasper Texas interview a bunch of people
and put this story together to report it back to you no we are piecing the story
together through you didn't want to go with me so we're piecing this story together through court documents as well
as newspaper articles that were written by other people and some of them being local reporters now this is something
that I have heard and read before in other cases but it certainly translates to this one
you know we said that they wanted to get impartial jurors obviously on this panel
well a problem that you have when you have a case of this magnitude and it's this is a death penalty case okay let's
be very clear about that what you tend to see happen is when you're trying somebody and the penalty
the possible penalty is death well you have to interview these potential jurors and you have to decide if they fit on
the panel what tends to happen in a lot of these cases you know you ask well why is is 11
members of the jury white and only one of them African-American well one it just may so have happened to work out
that way you know we don't we don't know the details but in a lot probably what the prosecution wanted us well in a lot
of these cases what ends up happening is they dismiss a lot of African-American potential jurors
because what tends to happen is they don't they're not as um let's say enthusiastic about the
death penalty as as uh white people may be okay um and this could be this is due to
several factors um one one it's the religious aspect and two um unfortunately in this country
predominantly when we see somebody that is has been charged and convicted wrongfully of a crime
it tends to be African-American people so they they have a better understanding that it's not a perfect system it
doesn't work 100 100 of the time therefore unfortunately you know we know this has happened and it breaks your
heart but there has been at some point some innocent person wrongly convicted and then sentenced to die and They
carried out that sentence right and I think that that's something that um can get lost on some people and
that's why you see in these death penalty cases that it tends to be a little more white people on the group
now the soul the sole African-American member of the panel was actually elected as the foreman of the jury okay now some
things that came out in trial here keep in mind this is Bill king that's being tried first
one thing that came out was the the forensic pathologist Tommy Brown he he brought to court and testified as an
expert witness stating that James bird was alive and writhing in pain until he was struck
till he struck that Culvert that decapitated him yeah um he stated that there was evidence
that proved that James Byrd had fought to survive while he was chained by the ankles to the truck and being dragged he
said this would have taken place for about two miles along that paved Country Road
stating he was attempting to keep his head off of the pavement and he was cautious he was conscious during this
time now brown was the one that performed the official autopsy on bird and he said
that Bird's elbows and knees were Ground to the bone as he tried to prop himself
up off of the road he stated that the victim would have been very tired uh very worn out trying to do a lot of
things trying to keep the pain from being so severe he probably would have been swapping one portion of his body
for another trying to get pressure off of other areas bird's head and right arm and shoulder
were torn from his torso when he struck that concrete drainage Culvert as the truck swerved from side to side the path
pathologist said it's his opinion that bird was alive up until that point so one thing I want to point out here
that the pathologist said they're dragging this guy and they're they're they're they're weaving this truck as
they're doing this going down this street they found remains of James Byrd in 81 places along that stretch of road
Bill King's defense well it was a little different than the other two defendants that would later
have their trial dates his defense was basically that he wasn't there that this crime went down and it was not
committed by him because he was not there his evidence to prove that is he states that there was a phone call he
was during this time that Jamesburg Jr was killed that he was on the phone with his girlfriend making arrangements so
that he would end up there later that that you know we keep saying later but it's so early in the morning it's
confusing if you're saying the right terms there so that's his statement um well that does not go with the
evidence they've that they've found they determined that he was on the phone closer to around like four in the
morning and this would have been well after James Bird Jr had been killed so the timeline's not matching up to start
with other evidence against Bill King is obviously we have Sean Berry's testimony
we also have a cigarette butt that was found at the location where the body was eventually located right on that DNA DNA
evidence this cigarette butt uh was it was Bill Kings and we have the lighter that was Bill Kings yeah the possum King
lighter so his defense regarding those two items was simply this one that the lighter had been stolen from him about a
week before the murder had been committed yeah and two that the the truck if if it was in fact Sean Berry's truck
that was used and he was not present with Sean Berry that it's likely that he had put out a cigarette at some point in
Sean Berry's ashtray and that when these men were removing James bird from the truck when that struggle went down that
the ashtray would have been kicked and knocked to the ground leaving cigarette butts and leaving this uh evidence
behind at the scene right what police and what the prosecutors were able to lay out to the jury is that
there's some other problems with this story because remember we said that they were at a party before they got angry
about somebody being at the party and they left right well people at that party said no we saw Bill King using
that lighter that night so he had it with him during this party so so days after he says it was stolen from him and
then second of all we have um Sean Berry's he we have his statement and we have this backed up by some other people that
the truck had been recently cleaned it had been recently cleaned out and Sean Berry's statement was that the ashtray
had been emptied and cleaned out prior to that day's events right so it'd be a cigarette from at least that day yeah
and here's the other thing okay let's say bear let's say Bill King you were able to confuse us and and convince us
that you weren't there using these these other stories which we know are not true
right remember we said that he had been kicking James Bird Jr right and he had also walked and trampled all over the
the crime scene yeah they found DNA evidence they found DNA evidence of James Byrd Jr on his
Footwear on Bill King's Footwear right so let me just go over this real quick so we have eyewitnesses put in them all
three together that night uh just a little bit before James would have been picked up we have DNA evidence of the
cigarette butt yes uh that was found there we have the lighter that was found there
um which probably has his DNA evidence on it too and now we have James Bird's DNA evidence on
um possum King's shoes correct or boots so it only took the jury of 12. it only took them it was like two and a half
hours mostly white people yeah that decided that uh Bill King a white supremacist should die by lethal
injection for the murder of James Byrd Jr so found guilty and sentenced to die and after the death sentence was
announced um there was a priest that had read a statement from the this is from Bill
King's father okay that said please pray for the bird family who have endured an unimaginable
pain and loss please pray for these jurors who have shouldered a terrible burden
please pray for our town of Jasper a community that remains strong though scarred by this unspeakable Act
now the younger Mr King Bill King who was on trial also left a written statement behind and as he was taken
away to prison he left this statement that said though I remain adamant about my innocence it's
been obvious from the beginning that this community would get what they desire so I close with the words of
Francis Yaki the promise of success is with the man who is determined to die proudly when it's no longer possible to
live proudly and it was signed sincerely John W King and that was from Francis bukaki yeah
yeah well on his way out of the courthouse when they were taking Bill King out of the courthouse and on to
prison um he okay so he's asked by reporters if he has anything to say to the bird family
at this point Bill King smirked and he responded with an obscenity um what do you say
um I would prefer not to say it myself if you want to you can go ahead the thing
is I don't know what he said well then you'll have to locate that he said something extremely rude to the family
of of a murder victim whether he's guilty or not okay um well let me stop that and you tell me
all right we're back magic of podcast uh so what he said when asked if he had anything to say to the bird family he
said um you can suck my dick is what he said yeah and you know I hesitated to tell that story in its entirety because
because of this um look because you're a good boy well Bill King is is a horrible man and if
there if there is a hell I hope he gets there okay but the thing is Captain I you know we got to tell the whole story
like we just said we got to tell the truth and to be perfectly clear he was in an interview and I think this would
have been two or three years after the crime or two or three years after he was sentenced anyway during this interview
he was asked why he would say that to his victim's family right and he stated that he had while he had nothing nice to
say to the bird family in this interview he was clearing up that that was not he was not directing that comment to the
bird family right they were escorting him and as they escort such a pile of dog [ __ ] that people in the crowd are
going to yell stuff at him yeah they're the the crowd is taunting him he's just been sentenced to death he's being
walked off to prison and they're taunting him they're saying horrible things to him he was responding with
something horrible back at one of those persons to which then a reporter jumps in front and right has a microphone and
says you got anything to say to the bird family and it that's how according to Bill king that's how it went down who
knows again but this this is very similar to him explaining away like pieces of evidence I'll just a
happenstance you know yeah like now you're you're a giant pile of [ __ ] well the thing is if you if you want to look
at it from the opposite direction and say that that's what his intentions were that he did intend to say that
um you you obviously have plenty of evidence to believe that he would have said that right because of we've we've
seen look and when we say there's some people that are hearing about this case for the first time today and they're
going well white supremacist how do you how do you know he just said some things
how do we know what really happened no they found plenty of evidence in his dwelling that he was not only a white
supremacist but he was wanting to start an organization that was going to do horrible things to African Americans
um we have tattoos all over your body about it yeah there's no question of who this guy was and so when you see how
dumb and ignorant he must be to have those beliefs and to want to organize such a group then it's very quick and
very easy to believe that he would have been dumb enough as he's being carted out of court to say something that
stupid to the public regarding his victim's family knowing that he would have appeals to face knowing that you
know know what in the in the in the end the people that that sentence you to death is the community
yeah in the end and if if you upset them and if you piss them off and you do a crime this bad and you show No Remorse
absolute absolutely no remorse for what you've done this community is going to make sure
that death sentence gets carried out one this is not the sentence he should have
got anyways I mean if you're going to have the death penalty right then I say go full out now
I don't believe in the death penalty because of the idea that there could be an innocent person that is uh tried and
sentenced to death and then that's carried out and just one innocent person dying from something is too much in my
mind but if you're going to have it it's the idea of eye for an eye and so if you're going to do that
then the possum King you know uh let me get some guys from Jasper or let's round up some of my buddies and
let me stop and kick the [ __ ] out of this guy and chain him to the back of a truck that's what should happen to this
individual we still have two trials to get through and as I said Bill King's defense was a little bit different than
what Sean berries would be and Russell Brewers would be let's go over Brewers first yeah because he was actually tried
second so Bill King's defense was he was innocent he was not there he didn't he didn't you know right liar he didn't
have anything to do with this murder well Russell Brewer his statement is going to be that well
yeah he was there but he didn't take he didn't participate in any of the actions
that led to James Byrd's death so it's going to be similar that he was just yeah that he was just there he was he
was in a situation that he couldn't control and things got out of hand and he was a witness to this not a
participant right but we've heard this story before haven't we yeah and so let's go let's go into that now we're
going to kind of mesh these other two trials together because they're very similar in this sense okay Sean Berry
his defense was pretty much the same thing yes he was there he was a witness to this situation he was not a
participant in this situation so in both trials what you end up having Captain is
you have Sean Berry repeating the story that I told you earlier that he told two
investigators right uh he's going to put the blame on Russell Brewer and Bill King and then you want to flip that over
in the other trial you're going to have Russell Brewer who's going to put all the blame on Sean Berry and Bill King
right right so the only difference between the two that I noticed right away uh would be that that Russell
Brewer did get a change of venue for some reason um and then Sean Berry did not so two of
the trials were held in Jasper and the other one was not well it could have had something to do with those two guys were
Jasper residents for a while so maybe that's what it was and maybe because Brewer was from a different County he
could have a different address or something and maybe the lawyers could do some wiggling or
finagling so they could get to a different venue I think that in Brewer's case and I'm going off of memory this
didn't make it to my notes here but I think a Brewer's case the reason why they were able to get the change of
venue was because it was the trial that immediately followed Bill Kings right where and because Bill King was guilty
and very obviously guilty um I think Brewers attorneys were able to present that it was going to be very
tough for him to get a fair trial there now with Barry's case with Sean Berry's case I think because he was whether he's
telling the 100 truth or not we will probably never know however he was the one that showed some
ability of helping out and assisting the police in their investigation by telling
them some kind of story by Leading them to the chain where I think because of those actions the judge was pretty
certain he was going to get a fair trial well the conclusion to these trials Russell Brewer he was found guilty of
murder and kidnapping and he too would be sentenced to death now Sean Berry the jury decided that
they were not going to uh they were going to spare him the death penalty in his trial we had the situation where we
have Russell Brewer who testified that Sean Berry had cut James Bird's throat before bird was tied to the truck right
the jury decided that there was not a lot of evidence to support this claim so therefore you know like we said we have
each guy basically painting the same picture they're just taking themselves out of the picture yeah I don't know one
thing I could not get to the bottom of in this case Captain was was his throw actually cut because this was this was
kind of a big deal in the trial whether that it pointed towards more guilt by Sean Berry than than what he came
forward with I couldn't find anything that definitively said that that had happened now unfortunately
um as we know given the the factors of the crime they may not have been able to determine that right and I think a
couple things here I think one it's possible that uh Brewers defense basically just mimicked what they could
get from Barry's defense um and if that's the case then they're just gonna you know
um Barry's saying that the throat was cut so therefore we're going to say that it was Barry yeah um who knows I
wouldn't and this is going to sound awful but uh there's a part of me that doesn't
want to believe um and I it I don't want to believe that he was alive when he was being drunk right
right right yeah it sounds awful but when you put thought into it it's it's a thought of Mercy in a way
um the thing here is they found you know whether you want to believe Barry's story or Brewer's story or whatever
I do believe without Sean Berry caving like he did in telling them what happened or at least his version of what
happened I think it would have been a little tough to have been harder yes it would have been harder to get Bill King
convicted it would have certainly been harder to get Russell Brewer convicted now however I say that but they did find
DNA evidence of all three of these guys at the crime scene and this would have been on cigarette butts and and beer
bottles 98 right I mean our our understanding of DNA technology was wasn't that great then so as far as the
jury was concerned maybe they want it and indict these guys they were also able to prove that tire marks found in
the area did in fact come from the tires on Barry's pickup truck so there's a lot
of evidence that that points to the guilt of these guys yeah unfortunately we only get get berries version and
Brewer's version of what actually happened in all likelihood you know I I they did present people at Barry's trial
that said he wasn't a racist I don't believe that maybe he wasn't at one point in his life I don't know how that
works to be honest with you um but I think that I think all three of these guys were absolutely involved in
this horrible crime I think we're not getting the full story from either Barry or Brewer right King's not talking I
mean it's it's a mixture you know in every one of these cases that we cover Captain they they break your heart okay
they break your heart first and then after that they break your brain they break your brain because you're trying
to figure out how are people even capable of doing such horrible things to one another and in each one of these
cases because of of the Heartbreak and because of of the pain that that I have to take in from from looking at these
cases I'm looking for I'm looking for a little tidbit a little morsel of something that can make me
smile at some point during this case I was able to find a big one of those later and we'll talk about that a little
bit later but while we're on our way to that the the first tidbit that I found that made me smile was that when Bill
King was transported I don't know how many facilities actually handled the executions of these inmates in Texas
right it may be more than one but the facility that he was transferred to there is an intake facility for all of
the death penalty uh death row inmates and the name of that intact um the name of that facility is James Byrd
Jr it would have a different middle name but there's a little bit of a that's odd it's odd and it has the the
name has no relation to our victim right um but it it kind of I don't know it's it's almost a wink
it's a little wink a wink and a nod yeah yeah it's almost but it's almost a little wink from uh James
you know in heaven looking down and and going hey I got you you know so so two of these guys were sentenced
to death uh one of them has actually been executed his appeals ran out um and this was Lawrence Russell Brewer
he was killed in September 21st of 2011. um he he is known for something else as
well as committing this horrible crime he listen well listen to this this is you know where we had that wink and Nod
to feel good about for a second there right he he gave an interview shortly before he was sentenced before he was
put to death and in this interview Brewer expressed No Remorse for his crimes and in fact he
told a Houston newspaper or Houston News Channel I'm sorry that as far as any regrets I have no regrets no I do it all
over again to tell you the truth yeah so he just took away our wink and our nod but but know that his sentence was
carried out before his execution though Brewer ordered a large meal you know we've talked about this before you get
your last meal when you're on death row and he ordered a large meal that included get ready for this I'm ready
um it included two chicken fried steaks a triple meat bacon cheeseburger a large
bowl of fried okra a pound of barbecue three fajitas a meat lover's pizza a pint of ice cream and a slab of peanut
butter fudge with lots of crushed peanuts in it however he did not eat any of this he
ordered all of this food and ate none of it just when you think you couldn't dislike a guy anymore well what this
prompted was the Texas prison prison officials they ended the 87 year old tradition of giving special last meals
to condemned inmates so look I'm not gonna lie as a true crime fan uh I enjoy talking about the last meal yeah it's
weird it's one of those guilty pleasures where you're like I shouldn't enjoy this
enjoy it but I do but I find it fascinating what people would come up with their last meal but but there's a
part of me that just goes hey you know these animals don't deserve to pick their last meal you know their last meal
they should go hungry let them feel hunger for a while and nothing against the Texas prison officials but
with an order like this come on we know something's up here you know like shouldn't it be like okay you get this
you get this plate and it's 15 by 12. and whatever you can fit on it that's it you know yeah or you have a dollar
amount right so now nowadays the um before an enemy is executed in the state of Texas now they just eat whatever the
other inmates eat right whatever the meal is yeah right wise why should they treat you any different
the other two guys are still in prison we have uh Bill King who at some point will be executed for this uh murder he
still has some pending appeals um he's running out of them we have Sean Berry who is in prison life in prison
um but he is he's actually eligible for parole and this won't be until June of 2038. you're not getting out no no no
he's not getting that if you get out somebody's gonna kill you I I wouldn't I wouldn't and well you you talk about
somebody killing him he's actually in protective custody in prison I don't know if it's still to this day but for a
lot of the early portion of his sentence uh he was spending 23 hours per day in an eight by six foot cell with only one
hour a day for exercise uh and this is obviously to protect him against like you said Somebody's somebody he's got a
Target on him for the rest of his days yeah as well as he should there was a moment of reconciliation for the town of
Jasper and this came when they they knocked down a rickety old fence that for more than 100 years had separated
the black Graves from the white graves in the Jasper City Cemetery yeah so this was a segregated cemetery and they
finally removed that they they did have a little ceremony and they had a prayer that went along with this ceremony to
you know to to mark this occasion I do want to point out however that James Byrd Junior's gravesite it does have a
fence around it and that's not to keep him segregated from anybody else in the cemetery it's because of this disturbing
fact that at some point some teenagers they desecrated the grave you know they I believe they kicked over The Headstone
and there was some kind of damage done to the Grave I think they even spray painted some things on the stone itself
so that that fence was simply put up to protect that memorial for that man for James and to stop people from doing that
type of behavior well because you know this is a this is a hate crime and this was done by three racist individuals and
uh ignorance will breed ignorance and there will be some [ __ ] out there that will go to James Berg's grave and
desecrate it and the in the name of white supremacy you know so Captain you've been you've been calm you've been
pretty good uh trying to be in the garage I know you you might be holding back a little bit is there anything you
want to add uh well I think it's sad that if that this case isn't as known as you know maybe it should be I think
to shed a light on something this is these kind of murders took place very often
for a long period of time and I think this is a reminder of that and it's a horrific crime
especially to somebody that seemed to be a good guy that lived by the Golden Rule
he treated others like he wanted to be treated and then you get these weak minded and weak individuals that
come along with these weak and um ignorant ideas on how the world should be and they carry out this horrible crime
and then they go on and they lie about it or some of them lie about it and the fact of the matter is that
whether it's Brewer or Barry win somebody is trying to pull out James from the truck
if one person jumps in now it's two against two at least it's a fair fight but you didn't want it to be a fair
fight because you're weak and and then if both of them are claiming was the other guy or this well
but if you both jump in to help James out now it's three against one and this murder never takes place but you're weak
and your giant pile of [ __ ] and like I said if if you're gonna have the death penalty then these guys should have been
tied up to a truck and Drug down the street for miles and that's what should happen and if
you're in that situation you know I look the captain's absolutely right each one of these people are weak
they're they're weak together as a group they're weak as individuals but even in this situation if you're in this
situation and you're afraid or you're scared at least go and get help at least go and
get somebody at least go and tell somebody what is happening or what may be about to happen yeah so that you can
put an end to this somehow in some way and save a good guy's life this was a guy that was about the community this
was he was somebody that was known he was a fixture in the community well he's human and it doesn't matter if you're
black white yellow or red he's a human right and and the fact of the matter is you either stand for something
but or you fall for anything is that what it's called right something like that but it's like
you gotta stand up and and I think this should be a lesson to all of us I mean it's not just
when a crime is going down or some uh brutal beating is happening that's not when you need to stand up you need to
stand up every time there is ignorance and anytime that you see ignorance because if you don't if you don't say
anything if you just turn the other cheek that is that is one of the lessons here the here's these two guys that put
the blame on other people I I think they put the blame on other people because they wanted to save themselves I wanted
I think they wanted to think you know maybe more so uh very then Brewer because Brewer had no remorse and you
know didn't want you know you're not even going to apologize yeah you want to change anything
you know uh I think that what I'm trying to get at is it doesn't matter if it if
it's a violent attack or just a violent attack with words it is your duty or at least I think it's our duty as uh
humans to speak up and protect others and and it's just um it's just a horribly sad case and
it's just not one that has been talked about enough uh in the True Crime community
I do want to talk about what I thought was that tidbit of of joy and peacefulness that I needed when looking
at this case and that was the bird family I mean I cannot say enough good things about these people regarding
their their their class their um their integrity just who they are as people as individuals and as a group and
I'm talking about James Bird's parents I'm talking about his ex-wife I'm talking about his children Renee Ross
and Jamie I see I see a group of people that are they don't they're not looking for
revenge for their loved one's death right they they are looking to be strong and to try to heal from this and try to
this this is what makes them such great people even during their grieving process they
were trying to help their town and their Community heal from this as well and I think we could all learn a lot from the
bird family from from his parents from his children and how we should carry ourselves in our everyday lives because
I tell you what you know a person's character is best judged in the time of tragedy and I can think of no bigger
tragedy than what we talked about today and then how this family conducted themselves afterwards yeah because it'd
be easy to take um you know the hatred and the ignorance of these three individuals
and then take that and internalize it and then release that back onto the world and and you know the bird family
decided not to do that and to be above that I don't I don't know that I could and
that's why I look at I look at the bird family and I remind myself these are people that are
they're smarter than me they're better than me they're they're good people and there's things that I
can learn from them ah you don't give don't don't beat yourself up so no but you know you're not that bad I mean
you're pretty bad but here's where I will Pat myself oh funny here's where I will Pat myself on the back and this is
what I hope everybody else does just accept that there's things that you can learn from good individuals like this
except that and try to learn from these people that's what you do that's what a good person does we all have flaws we we
can all work on them yeah one of the things for me is um and and I think we both heard about this
case back in 1998 uh but I was listening to I want to say Like This American Life
and um this case was just briefly mentioned uh in a rap lyric which reminded me of the case and then I
dove a little bit back into it and just felt that it was important like I said to cover but one of the things that
yeah I was talking about a positive moment was for whatever reason like it's like I
didn't know James Bird but I but I know James Bird if that makes any sense I worked at a recording
studio for many of years and there was multiple artists that would say I'm going to put
you on the map you know not not that they're going to put Columbus on the map or anything but
they're going to put me as a producer on the map and uh so when you hear over and
over um these stories of James Bird telling everybody I am going to put Jasper on
the map and I just wonder if there was just some intuition that he had and his death doesn't have to be in vain
and it's up to us to carry on not the legacy of his murder but what he was in his life and that would be treating
people the way you would want to be treated foreign I want to thank you for everything this
week thank you Colonel all right everybody thank you for joining us in the garage until next time be good be
kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause] [Music]

James Byrd Jr. /// Part 2 /// 164

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.comThe Crime was unspeakable: June 7, 1998; 49 year old James Byrd jr. was picked up by three white men in Jasper, Texas. They took him to the woods where they beat James and chained him by his ankles to the rear bumper of their pick up truck. He was dragged three miles along country roads. His head was severed from his torso by a roadside culvert. Tonight we discuss a horrible senseless murder that shook the nation and forever scarred an East Texas town. Beer of the Week - Circus City by Big Top Brewing CompanyGarage Grade - 3 and 3/4 bottle caps out of 5

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode details the murder of James Byrd Jr. and the trials of his killers, revealing a brutal hate crime and its aftermath.

Key points

The Tragic Story of James Byrd Jr.. James Byrd Jr. was brutally murdered after accepting a ride home. His story highlights the horrific nature of hate crimes.
Sheriff's Quick Action. Sheriff's department swiftly investigates the murder, leading to a confession and evidence recovery.
The Death Penalty Case. A deep dive into the complexities of a death penalty case involving racial bias.
Bill King's Defense. Bill King's defense claims he wasn't present during the crime, but evidence contradicts him.
The Jury's Decision. The jury took only two and a half hours to convict Bill King of murder.
Bill King's Final Words. Bill King left a statement insisting on his innocence as he was taken to prison.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you.

Host introduction

1:00WatchNov 27, 2022

Tension

85/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.