Hunting Humans /// Part 2 /// 498 | Forensic Files

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[Music] thank you [Music] where we left off from yesterday Captain is we have a young woman who was
abducted and managed to escape her attacker when she tells police and detectives about what happened to her
she is able to give them detailed information that lead them to a man named Robert C Hansen do you know what
the C is for it stands for oddly enough Christian is Robert Hansen's middle name
now Robert Hansen the general thought or what is known of this guy around Anchorage Alaska he's a family man a
businessman and he on the surface everything the investigating officers know about Robert
Hansen is telling them he wasn't their guy and when I say he wasn't their guy meaning
he might have been involved in this incident regarding Cindy Paulson but he's probably not their guy for the
other missing women and for the bodies that are turning up Robert Hansen is a family man and a successful local
businessman he owned a bakery and when the detective ran Robert Hansen through their computer system which we need to
point this out it's very important to point out that at this time in our timeline that this very moment the
Anchorage police were in the process of switching to a new system so when they type in his information
into their computer system the system tells them that Robert Hansen was clean he didn't have any police record at all
and when the detectives started to ask around what they end up learning is that Hanson
was known around town as a an expert Hunter and in fact he held several very impressive hunting records several world
records for bow and arrow hunting in fact he held the world's top Mark for taking down a doll sheep by bow and
arrow this was in 1971 for killing a Ram with a 42 inch horns he held the number two record for
Caribou the number 12 ranked in the world for mountain goat the number 13 ranked doll
sheep and the 34th ranked black bear I'm like 197 for killing a big ass spider so
this is a hunter's paradise and he's a very skilled Hunter well and all we can assume is that their law enforcement
system is not connecting them to other counties especially during this time so basically what they're saying is he's
clean once he moved to Alaska he's clean and he's been a good upstanding citizen
yeah the trouble the short of it Captain will be that they were in the process of
setting up their computer system it wasn't quite finished yet and so some of the records had not made their way to
that system well if they need again so they were not able to find them at that very moment when they're looking this
dude up whose vehicle and plane put him at the Airfield of where this Cindy Paulson escaped from so a quick
background on Robert Hanson he was born in Iowa in 1939 his parents with whom he
had a difficult relationship with were very strict and often made him work long hours at the family-owned Bakery during
his childhood he was often bullied for his stutter and severe severe acne in school he had no close friends after
graduating high school in 1957 he enlisted in the U.S Army Reserve where he became a skilled Marksman serving one
weekend a month and working at the bakery the rest of the time sometimes volunteering as an assistant
drill sergeant at the police academy in the town of Pocahontas it was in the Army Reserves one weekend that Hanson
lost his virginity to a working girl then in 1960 he fell in love with and married a local girl soon after Hanson
burned down the school bus garage of the local high school why well it's her reason to he ever tell
us did he ever say the reason so this is a really kind of long and weird story so
he's working at the bakery and now mind you by this time he's graduated high school he's in the Army Reserve
and he's an adult but he's a young adult he must be about uh 18 ish 19 at this time at this point he's a officially in
charge of making Cinnabons yeah well this is 1960 so he would be 21. he's actually a couple years older than what
I thought he was he's look he's working for Mom and Dad at the bakery and so when you think
about like these local mom and pop shops you have a lot of teenagers that tend to
work these jobs right so he's working with a couple of kids that are still at the high school they're still active in
the high school 17-ish 18ish and he is kind of because he's older than these guys they think of him
differently much differently than what his classmates thought of Robert when he was attending High School right his
classmates thought of him as a giant pimple well and at the bakery he's a bit of a somebody right he's the owner's son
he's an adult he's gone off to the Army Reserve he has life experiences he's a part-time drill sergeant at this Police
Academy yeah so now he's missed her pimple head so he kind of creates this little Clan amongst
the young men that worked there 16 17 18 year old boys you know they're all very
rebellious want to raise a little hell he convinces them hey like we could go out and do some stuff
in this little town in Iowa where there's nothing to do you know we could go out and shoot at things shoot at stop
signs we can uh set things on fire there's ways that we can have fun be rebellious and you know cause problems
yeah jerk off some goats so he convinces a couple of the guys that work there at
this bakery that you know what let's get together and we'll stake some places out and we can
do this or that or the other thing check out some goats a couple of the guys are
smart enough to weasel their way out of these arranged Hangouts that are after hours you know they're smart enough to
know hey if we end up doing something bad it could be bad for me so I'm not going
to put myself in this situation one night he and one of the boys that he convinced to go with them they go to
this garage that houses the buses that drive the kids to school so this is school property
and he decides Robert Hansen decides to set fire to the building now there's some conflicting stories here obviously
because we have two people that went there and they both have a somewhat different story of what happened but
after the building burnt down and the the vehicles inside were practically destroyed as well I mean this is a big
deal with a lot of damage a lot of a lot of cost involved in this damage well because these other guys are teenagers
well what do they do they they run their mouth you know they're at parties or they're at school telling people hey I
know who did this or I was involved or I was almost involved and so they're kind
of telling the story to these other people of what happened the police and the school system really
had no clue what happened other than they knew that it was not an accident that it was set it was an arson well
word starts to get around town that Robert Hansen was involved in this and the kid that was with him on the night
that they set the fire he becomes a witness and testifies against Robert Hansen so in court speak
Robert Hansen willfully and maliciously set fire to a building this occurred in Iowa in 1961. for this he gets a
three-year sentence in prison remember he's already married at this time his wife decides to stick with him because
she believes going off of what Robert's telling her and everyone else hey this group of kids did it and they're trying
to blame it on me and because somebody's willing to testify against me I'm taking
the fall for these guys right his family believes him and his wife believes that he's innocent
but eventually he ends up confessing to her and to his mom and dad this is while he's serving out that
three-year prison sentence well and also you know the family business he's set to
make some dough well you asked why it's believed that Hanson burnt down the building in retaliation for his unhappy
high school years or it was because he hated the school's superintendent who just so happened to be good friends with
his father Hanson's father and a regular customer at the family bakery either way
Hanson ends up serving 23 months in a Reformatory and then is released and then successfully completed parole
one year later so he got out early for this arson that he committed right in 1963 he remarried because what happens
is once he confesses to his wife and to his parents she believing him this whole
time now she knows not only did he set this fire not only is he an arsonist but he's managed to lie to me for over a
year now she don't want anything to do with him those two split up so after he gets out 1963 he gets married again to a
woman with whom he had two children with a girl and a boy in 1967 the Hanson family of four moved
to Anchorage Alaska now in Anchorage Alaska this is reported that you know Hanson was well liked by the people that
knew him and following in his Father's Footsteps Hanson opened a bakery and the business was a success now Hanson always
had a hobby of target shooting and was pretty skilled at this and he was always somewhat a casual
Hunter back in Iowa but Alaska is a Sportsman's Paradise so Robert Hansen became an avid Hunter well just to be
clear it's spelled h-a-n-s-e-n not son like the famous um but multiple talented group Hanson
either way it makes me think of that song and we need to have their beer on the show called um hops a funny side
thing was I was at the grocery last week and that song came on and I don't care what anybody think
that's not my cup of tea that you know their style of music but that song regardless puts me in a fantastic mood
every time I hear it that was their Style music when they were younger there they've got they've gotten much better
if you haven't listened to new Hanson you you might be surprised I've been trying to talk about Hanson for almost
500 episodes once in Alaska as we already pointed out he becomes an avid Hunter breaking several hunting records
setting several hunting records which we already listed some of his ranked records but when the detective
started asking other detectives because keep in mind still at this point he's looking at this guy going this guy's got
a clean rap sheet why all of a sudden out of the middle nowhere this guy picks up a woman at gunpoint handcuffs her and
does all these horrible things to her we didn't go into detail and I didn't think
it was necessary but it was a lengthy assault that he committed on this woman according to what she's telling the
detective so the detective is going yeah you don't just go from being a a nice guy Family Man businessman it's a brutal
rape yeah one day to being a monster the next so he starts asking the other detectives like hey what I'm hearing
about this guy and what I can see on paper isn't adding up I mean there was a hammer involved about Robert Hansen
and he's at some point when he's talking to these old skilled seasoned detectives that
have been around for a long time he's starting to get less stories about Hansen's hunting records
and more stories about Hanson's police record right because we said that for whatever
reason those records hadn't made their way to their now computerized system right one detective that he asked
immediately referred to him as bad Bob Hansen AKA man who jerks off goat so the records having not been fully
transferred yet tell a very different story about this family man we and the successful Baker
We already mentioned this arson fire okay but then we have a story out of 1972 or 73
where Robert Hansen got into some bad trouble this was for two separate incidents one for attempting to rape a
housewife and he was also caught for raping a sex worker now it's a little convoluted but
but things seem to fall apart pretty quickly in both of these cases as they were trying
to charge Robert Hansen with these two different crimes from my understanding Captain they are very different crimes
especially the housewife crime because this is a weird situation and this might be his if you want to use some air
quotes here his first sexual attack we do not know for sure but in this situation he stops off at This Woman's
house and he says that he needs to use her phone for whatever reason that he that
he gives her and I believe she allows him to use the phone and then he leaves without incident
he comes back to her place like 30 minutes later yo I think the Rouge was that you know because his head's a big
pimple is that he convinced her that a bee stung his face and that's why his face looked like that
so he needed to call the hospital the using the phone ruse might be to make sure that she's alone in the house yeah
or that and so he comes back 30 minutes later knocks on the door she opens up boom he's sticking a gun in her face and
he's attempting to attack her and rape her whatever ends up going down again those
both those stories are a little convoluted but what we end up happening at the end the result turns out to be
that they dropped the rape charge and then reduce the attempted rape charge to an
assault charge which Robert Hansen pled guilty to so the short of it is somehow this all
got reduced and now Robert Hansen who has two incidents that point to him being a violent sexual offender
he's now only serving six months in prison that's because the system tends not to believe females so this ends up
being a conviction for assault with a dangerous weapon that's [ __ ] it was supposed to be a five-year sentence so
they didn't let him off easy on the sentence itself but it was a five-year sentence with a
recommendation that Hanson received psychiatric treatment it was after the six months after serving six months that
he was transferred to a halfway house and placed on a work release program one year later Hanson was released on parole
and parole was terminated after approximately three years yeah again two big crimes that he basically gets a slap
on the wrist yeah more of the victims are probably traumatized for the rest of their
freaking lives now remember this required him to receive psychiatric treatment during his time in prison
and so during this psychiatric treatment the court ordered psychiatric treatment
what we learn is this was this was carried out by a Dr J Landon stated that Robert Hansen
suffered from a dissociative mental illness and suggested that Robert Hansen's criminal activity stemmed from
that illness and stated that Hansen's type of disorder was difficult to treat successfully but a subsequent letter
from Dr Alan Parker filed eight months later indicated that Hanson had made sufficient Improvement through therapy
to Warrant his release on parole unbelievable so you have one doctor saying this guy's got some issues
that we find are going to be very difficult to treat successfully and then another doctor saying at a later date
he's been treated successfully yeah we can send him out to parole I fixed them now there's one thing that is left out
of that little statement and that that's actually these are statements what I just read were found they're from court
documents what wasn't in those court documents is a statement that he made during the course of the psychiatric
evaluation where he told the doctor that during his teenage years and of course I think he's
being a little deceptive here but he says during his teenage years he he often fantasized about doing all sorts
of harmful things to girls and women who rejected him yeah he seemed stable that's not the end of his police sheet
here captain because in 1977 Robert Hansen stole a chainsaw from a store in Anchorage for
this Robert Hansen entered a plea of guilty to larceny in a building he was sentenced to five years incarceration
with the provision that he be eligible for parole at the earliest possible date and that he received psychiatric therapy
to case his transition back into the community now hold on a second I just want to point this out
assault with a deadly weapon five years stealing a chainsaw five years you can't
even begin to compare those crimes correct and keep in mind had that been had the
theft been his first charge you know the first time breaking the law he would have got a lot less for
that he probably would have got probation maybe one year Max but because he had had multiple offenses
and you know they they were aware of that they're going to give him the five years for that theft charge they should
do shock therapy on his book the way that that I want to go through that that theft charge because we have some
detailed information on how that went down based off of the court records so this took place while Hanson was
shopping at an Anchorage department store when a store security guard observed Robert acting suspiciously and
the store's Sporting Goods section he watched Robert place an old sales receipt on a chainsaw box and leave it
leave the store with it the guard apprehended Robert in the parking lot Robert Hansen described his thoughts
leading up to the shoplifting as follows quote I looked at them and remembered about five weeks previous
my father and I had been cutting wood for our fireplace in his remarking three or four times how much he would like to
have one meaning a saw my folks live in Oregon and were visiting us for four weeks he wanted us
all to use when he and my mother go camping along the coast I told my father that he would be more than welcome to
take mine but he refused I thought of this and all the presents my parents had given me through the years and how
wonderful it would be if I could give him a saw for Christmas I also thought of course about my life at that time my
wife and I had just bought this summer a new home and put everything we've had saved for more than nine years into that
home I guess many many thoughts went through my mind as I looked at the salts I wanted almost more than anything to
please my father and could just imagine the expression on his face on Christmas Day if I could give him that saw
I walked around the store some more and out the front door outside a man had just had a heart attack the police fire
department and paramedics were there to give him treatment my father is 69 years old and has had
one heart attack and is very overweight again I thought of the chainsaw and how pleased he would be to receive it at
Christmas I walked back into the store again to the Sauls I thought there was a young man watching
me but then he seemed to disappear on the one box that I picked up there was a sales receipt I guess this is when
I first really seriously thought about taking the saw it seemed like nobody would know if I paid for the saw or not
if they saw a sales receipt on the box I took the saw and walked out the door and I was apprehended and arrested
I know what I did was wrong and I am very sorry for doing so Robert Hanson was 37 years old at the time of the
offense and he had children he's married his family has this Bakery he's successful
he could afford to buy his father a saw I was going to say not successful enough
to buy a saw maybe not but the way I see it Captain is I'm seeing a guy who is manipulating those around him
when he's fired right when he's caught when he's innocent whatever he's a man who cheats and he's a liar
when he was caught for burning down the building he was able to convince his parents and his wife hey I'm just the
Fall Guy didn't really have anything to do with this convince them so much so that once they
put him behind bars they still believed him now he's standing in front of a judge at 37
giving him this sad story about his father's in bad health and what a miracle it would be if I could just give
my father this one gift on Christmas morning like he's Tiny Tim from Charles Dickens
Christmas Carol or something yeah it's just too bad you can't give your dad a new son
[Laughter] that's right Christian so what we see here I believe is a guy trying to tell this and sell this sad
story to a judge the judge didn't believe it and that's why he ends up getting the five years
[Music] foreign [Music] we switched over to some Uma hops tasty thank you Hanson Brothers this was
go ahead I was gonna say you know they're they're kind of similar to us because they have they have a garage
themselves I believe their company's got three door garage or something or three-car garage or something like that
so I was gonna laugh because I think most people own garages but what do I know so well it's not a chainsaw right during
this during this prison sentence and it ends up getting reduced and he doesn't have to spend the full five years but
what ends up happening here we did state that you know he has to undergo another
psychiatric evaluation during this time and this is when Robert Hansen is diagnosed with bipolar disorder
and of course we got to keep in mind this does not mean what we're going to end up learning about him that's not
typical of bipolar disorder and also given the time frame we're talking about the 70s so a lot has
changed and fortunately we know more about things like this now than we did back then at the time he was prescribed
lithium which I don't know if that's still something that they hand out I don't I don't know much about it
he wasn't required by law to actually take it but this will have this will be interesting because
we said that he owned a plane right he owned that plane that the victim led the officers to at the Airfield right
so he owns this plane but he was denied a license due to this medication that he
was prescribed again no one knows if he was actually taking the medication I couldn't find anybody to say either way
if he was actually taking it but the way that he comes about buying this plane is
pretty interesting because in the early 1980s Robert Hansen reported a burglary at his
home he says that thirteen thousand dollars worth of items were stolen from his family's home
it wasn't too long after this it's a lot of chainsaws that he purchased the piper
Super Cub bush plane yeah this is a very very tiny plane so the thought is maybe he used this money
that he received from the insurance policy on the burglary to his home to buy the plane that's a big part of
the story so now we're going back to the investigation is he responsible we have
this sex worker that we found in handcuffs a truck driver founder is he responsible for this
he's saying no he's saying I don't know her I've never seen her before and he he I believe he has an alibi as
well yeah he has two alibis so this makes it very difficult for the police because
if we're going to take this thing in front of a judge and say that this guy abducted and and assaulted this woman
but she escaped well if you put this thing in front of a judge or even a jury of his peers you
run the risk of going well it's this Working Girl's word against this successful Family Man businessman
who says he doesn't even know her never met her and he's got two other people that are considered to be good
upstanding citizens that are saying well he couldn't have done that because he was with us that night the police are
smarter than that though they know how things work and even though they can't bring it in front of a judge yet they're
going to still work on Robert Hansen and so they're going to question him they want him to slip up they want him to
give them information that they can work with to build a case against him at the same time while they haven't
officially filed any charges against him for the attack for the rape and the Abduction of Cindy Paulson another body
turns up this is a couple months later and this is Paula golding's body turns up so the police are really concerned
number one that they got this violent guy out that they believe are 100 percent to be guilty of what Cindy
Paulson said this guy did there's too much evidence to them leading them to him the problem is The Alibi
and Hanson doesn't really admit anything when they first interview him in fact he's a little bit rude
when detective flothy asked him about the attack and the sexual assault Hanson says to flothy you can't really
rape a prostitute can you well flothy fires right back and says in this state you can so they're looking at
this guy well I mean that statement right there shows you what kind of respect he has for women
well in particular the victim here in this case right and maybe the other victims that you're seeing as well the
missing women and the bodies that are turning up so what we have here Captain is more bodies turning up a guy that's
looking really good and you got a couple detectives that are saying you know what
look at this guy's past he was a violent sexual offender before that's what he still is today we believe he abducted
raped and was going to kill Cindy Paulson but she was able to get away we think he's responsible for a lot of
these other ones the other thing too that made Robert Hansen interesting to them is that he owned a plane because at
least one or two of the bodies were described and we went through those articles described as inaccessible in an
area that was inaccessible however if you had a plane those areas were accessible right but
also think about it this way investigators are going okay yes we know that she's a sex worker but parts of her
story line up I went to this guy's house and then we went to a plane this is the guy and he has those items
now you have these two Alibis so that's when the investigators are going to go hey somebody's lying so
we're gonna we got cracked down on somebody and like I said her story is making some
sense so they're going to go after his Alibi well and keep in mind too I mean yeah when they find her when police find
her she was still handcuffed she was still beat up yeah the scene to me is like the
end of Texas Chainsaw Massacre the first one where she runs out onto the road and
she's screaming and yelling and comes across that uh semi truck driver the problem though too then becomes people
that are familiar with cases such as this one well not such as this one but such as the Cindy Paulson case of her
Escape let's say there are plenty dozens hundreds thousands of cases where a dancer or a working girl gets beat up by
a boyfriend or a pimp and blames it on someone else that happens happens all the time police don't suspect that here
but that's where it could easily go to in the minds of people that are tasked with the duty of determining Robert
Hansen's guilty or not right guilt or not and you have these other people that are saying well he couldn't have because
he was with us that night we'll get into that in a minute but what we're going to
have here is very interesting because the police decide well let's build a case against Robert Hansen he's our guy
if we all think that he's our guy let's surveillance him let's watch him let's build a case against him well what do we
need to do let's forget about the the rape and the abduction as far as Cindy Paulson's concerned we can always Circle
back to that let's try to connect him to the murdered victims or to any of the missing women so let's build our case
against him that way one thing that they do is they reach out to the FBI in Quantico and they actually didn't think
that they were going to have any good result with with this they just made a simple phone call and said hey this is
what's happening here in Anchorage we got these women missing turning up dead this is how they're found oh and by the
way we got a guy that we like for this Roy Hazelwood who we reference in the trailer
was the man that picked up the phone the FBI agent that picked up the phone he tells the officer the detective he says
don't tell me anymore I don't want to know who your guy is tell me about the victims and how you're finding them Roy
Hazelwood starts to shoot off back and he says I bet you your guy is like this and I bet you he does this and he's
about this age and this is where he lives he's probably married he's probably successful he's probably known
in the community he's telling them everything that they already know to be true about Robert
Hansen Hazelwood says you know what take this to the local FBI get them to sign off on it and we will
send you some agents okay so this next part is from the Criminal Minds fandom page which is an odd and unexpected
source for this week's case but turned out to be a very good source the information is real good and laid out
nicely so I was happy to find it there's a paragraph that says the Alaskan investigators began looking into Hanson
again and contacted the FBI who sent in their profilers this was according to the site here Captain says John Douglas
but some sources say it was Roy Hazelwood they profiled that the killer would have low self-esteem a history of
rejection by women and be an experienced Hunter they also correctly predicted that he
would take souvenirs from his victims and would have a stutter so let's examine this for a bit and
clear up any of the Douglas versus Hazelwood bit as well for the record the Phantom page is citing sources so they
don't have anything wrong they are just simply citing other sources right so they included both
which I think is very responsible they say it was either Roy Hazelwood or John Douglas that helped the Anchorage police
and the state police the Alaska state police with this case yeah I agree it's good that they put both of those in
there so first off anyone that has listened to the show for a long period time know that John Douglas and Roy
Hazelwood are the two FBI agents that we have talked about more than any others by far yeah Hazelwood was my nickname in
high school we referenced quoted and explored their Works countless times they are both ogs when it comes to the
FBI's BSU they work together and relied on each other's work at time and expertise plenty as have we I can see
why this part is confusing and the short answer is because they both worked on the case
so it makes sense that you would see Douglas's name and or Roy hazelwood's name the other truth about the FBI's
profile is that in this case the FBI was only brought in after local law enforcement already identified who
they believed to be the Killer which is pretty rare right the in this case the Alaska State
Troopers and the Anchorage police pretty much knew or had that gut feeling that Robert Hansen was the one that was
killing women again in fact they were calling him bad Bob Hansen but they needed some experts to help
them secure a search warrant for bad Bob this would be to search his home his plane and his three vehicles that he
owned at the time so FBI agents John Douglas and Jim horn were sent from Quantico out to Anchorage
to assist the Alaskan authorities attempted on more than one occasion to get a search
warrant for Hanson but needed more ammunition as the D.A wanted to make sure that the courts
wouldn't find that the police were going on a fishing Expedition right saying hey we think this guy's killed
all these people we're just going to go in and toss his house and search the plane and hope to find stuff that lead
us to building a case against him right so John Douglas and Jim horn shipped out
to Anchorage brought in to put together a psychological and behavioral profile of
the offender well one of the things that I think about Hanson and it's such a a t-ball shot you know put the ball on
the tee and hit it out of the park because we we know that he's a hunter and that he collects trophies and he
collects uh parts of the animals as trophies so if he's killing multiple women why wouldn't he keep souvenirs or
trophies of those kills as well well and really what they wanted was to say you know what we brought in these
outside experts who on their own put together their own psychological profile of who the offender would be what his
behaviors would be personality would be and then we can take that and say you know what they created this
independently we're telling the judge hey look this matches Robert Hanson this matches the guide that we've been trying
to go after and we can't get a search warrant for and so once they have that they also
want something else from the FBI these guys have worked these type of Serial cases
so these guys can put together a list for them a very specific items that they need to include on their search warrant
when they go looking for items at his home so in general that was really the main
job of John Douglas and Jim horn to put together the search warrant information items they were searching for and the
profile on the suspect that would commit these types of crimes this all works and
the D.A goes for the search warrant judge grants the searches they're going to go
hunting let's say at Robert Hansen's house now where Roy Hazelwood comes back into play Not
only did he answer the call and encourage the local authorities to pursue the FBI to get involved was at
some point during this case John Douglas he's hospitalized and this is for quite some time
and it took place during the Robert Hansen case Douglas nearly died from stress and you texted me a couple weeks
ago and said hey I'm seeing stuff saying that they're working on season three of
mine hunter look at the time frame that we're talking about here yeah this would line
up with where they kind of left off on season two they might start working the Hanson case in season three and we'll
see Douglas's character in the hospital at some point yeah again so Douglas is nearly down for the count so Roy
Hazelwood is sent in to cover for Douglas and what he's going to do is he's going to prepare the detectives
that will be interviewing Robert Hansen after his arrest he's going to be telling them hey these are the tips and
things that you can use to try to get a confession from him or if you can't get him to willingly confess
here's some tactics that you can use to get him to slip up and give you information that you need
unwillingly Captain before we move on too far while we're passing around some credit we need to make sure that we give
a big batch of it to Alaska State Trooper detective Glenn flothy an Anchorage PD officer Greg Baker both
flothy and Baker were extremely determinated to catch whoever it was that was killing these women and burying
them out in the woods determined these were the guys that suspected Hanson was the right guy when others were
dismissing him and they didn't treat the victims alive or otherwise any differently than they
would any other citizen of the community here's what they wanted to do Captain and this is genius because they're like
you know what if we can find items that are rape and assault victim says she saw in this man's house
the gun that he used on her and other items that he used on her that's going to be enough for us to really take this
to the next level the next level is put this case in front of a grand jury that's where those false Alibis will
come back into play and we'll Circle back to that but the other thing that they wanted to do detectives aren't
stupid they see that this guy he filed this insurance claim for thirteen thousand dollars and then in pretty
quick turnaround buys an airplane uh okay well when you submit your report to the insurance company
you have to submit an itemized list of everything that was stolen from your property
you now have an abduction and rape victim who says I was in the basement and she's describing items that he had
put on that list of things that were stolen from his home so now you have an insurance fraud
charge that you can bring against this guy so when you have trouble convincing a
room of people that this man is a serial killer who's killed dozens of women what what is the best thing for you time
time will be on your side but you're afraid he will be killing other women in the process or could be destroying
evidence in the process so if we can lock this dude up on anything the insurance fraud charge the rape charge
the abduction charge let's get him on that put his ass Behind Bars and build a case against him while we have him
locked up sure enough they get into his home they start seeing things that he says were
stolen from his house that he received insurance money for yeah I mean this goes as a criminal on multiple levels
he doesn't really care for anybody's concern other than his and make sure that he's getting ahead
the thing they really wanted to find was that 223 Ruger Mini 14 which is the gun
that they found the shell casings near a couple of the buried bodies so they were hoping to find that in this
search they would eventually find it and the other thing that comes about is now
they are taking this case to a grand jury so they can go back to those two guys who say that I was with Robert
Hansen that night he couldn't have abducted and raped this woman and they can say you know what you told
us that story now here's your subpoena you go tell it to a grand jury and if later we can prove
that you are lying you will be doing time yourself well how quickly they change their
stories neither of those men were with Robert Hansen that night liars pants on Fires I
want to say that they got a couple search warrants and looked through things and didn't find anything and then
they went got a couple different search warrants and went back because they didn't find anything like
just like out in the open I think they were coming up empty most of the time and then they found
like some kind of hidden area in his addict or something like that well you're you're exactly right
um now but it's a little confusing because think about the search warrants in general they are seeking items that
would be involved in different charges related to different incidents things that took place at different times right
so some of the items they are finding out in the open these would be the items that he claimed were stolen during the
burglary the house burglary right because he's he's very fond of his trophies his hunting trophies and a lot
of the valuable items that he says were stolen from his home are in fact those hunting trophies that he's got mounted
to the walls so not only were they out in the open they were on display and he was proud to show them off so they find
those right away but all that's going to get you in court is a charge for this insurance fraud they want charges of
murder rape and abduction and you're exactly right they're not finding the the guns and the torture weapons or
dirty shovels or anything like that out in the open that would lead them to be able to bring forward those types of
charges what they end up finding and it's a weird situation because and it's really great that Roy Hazelwood was able
to kind of school these detectives and and prosecutors and how they should be communicating and
talking and interviewing Robert Hansen because what they do is they bring him in
for interrogation at the same time that they're searching his home his property and his Vehicles well it's a great time
to bring him in because he would know that they're searching so he's going to be constantly worried the whole time
that they're asking him questions what are they finding well and the stutter and I don't want people to email me I
don't know the science of any of this but in this situation what they're going with is that the man's stutter seems to
be directly related to how nervous he gets how out of control a situation gets for him and when he's uncomfortable when
he's nervous when the stakes are high he stutters he can't control himself he reacts
and so what they wanted is just what you said captain let him know we're searching his
properties let's bring him in let's question him at the same time while the the heat is already cranked up to 10.
and what they get are some information because as you said they're turning up empty-handed with the items that would
lead them to the more severe charges the charges that they're really they really
care about they don't really care about the insurance fraud other than to jam them up long enough to bring these other
charges they end up finding through some of his own words Robert Hansen's own words that he has a false wall at some
at some place in his home it might have been the basement might have been the attic might have been both
and inside of that false wall he had hid things like guns that he had used and things that he had used to
rture some of these women they also found an aviation map which was really interesting because it
had several things marked on this map and I believe it was about 21 or 20 or so things marked on the map
having found this they already know where some of the bodies were recovered the bodies that they've recovered are
matching up with some of the marks that Robert Hansen made on this map they know Robert Hansen made these marks
on this map because he said he told him where to find the map and where to find these other items they're in the false
walls the gun they were looking for is this uh 223 Ruger Mini-14 that they know was
used to kill a couple of the victims they didn't find it in any of the properties that they were searching
because it was in his boat which was in fact on his property but they didn't have a search warrant for the boat this
so that's where they had to go back and get a search warrant for the boat they couldn't afford to anything being found
in the boat to be thrown out of court at a later date so this [ __ ] turd had a plane and a boat
yeah but keep in mind it is Alaska so like plane ownership is a lot more common there and these smaller planes
and they're small it was a small boat it was like a yacht no it's still a [ __ ] turd
in the end when they find the gun and run ballistics they are able to come back and tell him you know what this gun
your which was his prized gun which oddly enough the profilers said he would have this very close relationship with
the the murder weapon and he would value this over many many other items in his possession
he would treat it with a certain high intensity level of care when they said to him look we've we've
connected the bullets from your favorite gun to four of the victims that's when they get a confession
from Robert Hansen and it's a pretty long one but I have reviewed it and the short of it is
basically he's saying that women that work the streets women that work as dancers they're not good people and so
it didn't really matter that he killed them that he should be allowed to do whatever he wanted with
them because they're not the same as you and I or everybody else so they don't have the same rights as he
does oddly enough he doesn't consider himself to be a bad person or didn't at the time of his arrest which is
completely bizarre giving his police record and what he was out doing all those years yeah but it was fixed
with therapy and he would end up pleading guilty to this in the court of law and he ended up receiving a life
sentence plus 461 years so he was never going to get out and then part of that plea bargain now
Alaska does not have the death penalty so that was never going to be an issue but part of that plea bargain was he was
going to have to tell the officers where they could expect to find the remaining
victims right but but he would never be charged with those crimes he could only be charged with the four murders correct
that he was confessing to he was charged with four murders convicted of four murders one of them
is including Annie who's never been identified he doesn't know who she was or claims that he doesn't know who she
was and he was also charged and convicted of the insurance fraud as well as the abduction and assault on Cindy
Paulson so that's how you get a life sentence plus 461 years he confessed to 17 murders overall they recovered all of
those bodies there still are some bodies that have not been recovered uh and I'm getting a little confused I
shouldn't say they recovered all of the 17. police believe that he's probably responsible for 21 or more murders
and they think that the reason why he wouldn't confess to some of the other murders goes back to his original
confession that some of the women weren't working at a show bar or weren't working the streets right and therefore
for whatever reason we've gone through this time and time again with these serial killers their confessions don't
always make a lot of sense sometimes they make up higher numbers sometimes they really downplay it down and I'd
also say possibly in this case there would be victims closer to the age of maybe 12 to
14 and a lot of times you'll see serial killers not willing to admit that they they killed a child
yeah the missing women that they have that are still outstanding to this date are of the age range of the the previous
victims that we've already discussed part of that you wonder if they were just left out in the open or tossed into
the river which is a little bizarre that he didn't use that time and time again these other crimes he was not willing to
confess to those for whatever reason detectives were also very concerned and remember we saw this in the BT key the
BTK case as well how can you have this serial killer operating for years and years and years
living with his family and nobody else knows about what he's out doing and so one thing that they had to do was
Interview his wife extensively not telling her what they're going to charge him with because they wanted to
be able to determine if she had any clue of what old bad Bob Hansen was up to what they discovered is that she
traveled a lot she was a good person she had no clue of what he was doing he was
doing almost all of this while she was away on travel with the kids in fact in a lot of these murders he
called them his summertime projects which she would be out traveling for the summer I believe she was a teacher or
something and had the Summers off but she also even tried to help the police once she was aware of what he was
guilty of once he confessed she even helped them try to locate some more of his items that he may have concealed
somewhere or buried on their properties so she was just another victim in this long story of Robert Hansen but this guy
again he's you know he's Beyond a monster because not only was he raping these individuals to take it individual
out and give them a head start here I'll give you a knife or maybe I don't give you a knife
maybe I'll leave you handcuffed maybe I take the handcuffs off but I'm going to hunt you down like an
animal that's what they really should have done they should have got him to confess and then they should
have said hey by the way we're going to take you out to the field where where we found a body and they should
have just said hey uh Robert we're going to give you a Little Head Start and uh we'll be coming for you well and that's
one thing that they were able to determine Captain was in the earlier murders he was killing the victims
elsewhere and then bringing them to the burial sites in the later murders he's all wrapped up and in love with
this hunting it's like well why not combine the couple things that I love the most right
abduct this woman a lot of the physical attacks the the rapes and such sexual assaults took place at his home and then
the the ruse of oh I take these women to the cabin out in the middle of nowhere that's he's just putting them in a plane
so he can land that thing and go hunt them out in the wilderness and then bury them where he kills them
and I want to be very clear about this we told this story in the trailer about General Zaroff who if you were able to
elude him for three days and get away from him and his hunting dogs that he would set you free and he gave them a
knife and some food and a three-hour Head Start that's not the case with Robert Hansen no he's he's hunting women
who he lets out of his airplane who in many cases are naked still handcuffed and sometimes even blindfolded so it's
not like this guy was giving them any type of fair situation at all to get free he was setting up a system
and stacking the deck against them so he could hunt them for fun with no worry that they were going to get away
no sickening exactly and I think some of the words from The Trial really sum up Hanson the best and this is from the
closing statements before he was sentenced to that lengthy prison sentence and this is coming from the
prosecuting attorneys and they're talking about the victims and Robert Hansen and they say 17 may not be the
end of it meaning there could be more victims we feel from what we've learned that there might be more bodies out
there and then the prosecutor points to Robert Hansen and says before you sits a
monster an extreme aberration of a human being who has walked amongst us not even his wife of 20 years had any
inkling of his dark evil side his crimes numb the mind Alaska serial killer Robert Hansen who
killed as many as 21 women maybe more died around 1 30 a.m August 21st 2014 at an Anchorage Hospital the cause
of death appeared to be that he died of natural causes Glenn flothy a retired Alaska State Trooper who was
instrumental in Hanson's 1984 capture said quote on this day we should only remember his many victims and all of
their families and my heart goes out to all of them as far as Hanson is concerned this world is better without
[Music] foreign [Music] thank you so much friends for joining us here again in the garage
I'm getting right up in your ear if you need more True Crime garage check out our other show our bonus show called off
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recommended reading this week this week we are recommending death on Ocean Boulevard inside the Coronado Mansion
Case by Caitlin Rother this is perfect timing as well to recommend this book because this case is coming up on the
10-year marker now this unfortunately is one of those True Crime Mysteries was it
murder or was it suicide Rebecca zahau's family believes she was murdered as investigators found conflicting evidence
of Foul Play in this book author Caitlin Rother explores all the theories that point to Foul Play and brings out some
new details about the case check out death on Ocean Boulevard find that title and many many more on our recommended
page at truecrime garage.com again friends who can't thank you enough for joining us here every week in the garage
and until next week be good be kind and don't let it [Music]

Hunting Humans /// Part 2 /// 498

Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

In the famous short story “The Most Dangerous Game” General Zaroff hunted shipwrecked sailors. The Zodiac killer used lover’s lanes in Vallejo, a lakeside park and the streets of San Francisco to shoot young couples. In the 70’s and 80’s someone was hunting the young women of Anchorage, Alaska. This week we explore the story of Alaska’s most cold blooded killer - Robert Hansen the Butcher Baker.

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Brief Summary

Robert C. Hansen, a serial killer, was convicted of murdering at least 17 women in Alaska, evading justice for years before his capture.

Key points

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Hosts Nick and Captain introduce the show and thank listeners.
The Abduction and Escape. A young woman escapes her attacker, leading to the investigation of Robert Hansen.
Robert Hansen's Clean Image. Initial investigations reveal Hansen as a family man and successful businessman.
Hansen's Criminal Past. Hansen's history of arson and sexual assault comes to light during the investigation.
Contradictory Psychiatric Evaluations. Two doctors provide conflicting assessments of Hansen's mental health and treatment.
A Father's Gift. The narrator reflects on wanting to give his father a chainsaw for Christmas.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

He might have been involved, but he's probably not their guy.

Discussion about Robert Hansen's initial investigation.

3:41WatchNov 7, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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