Heather Dawn Church /// Part 2 /// 340 | Forensic Files

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round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] it took almost two years to find the
remains of Heather Church and the crime scene where the remains were found offered no clues as to who the
perpetrator of this abduction and murder could be the daily Sentinel ran an article with the headline girls remains
found after two-year search this from The Associated Press the article labeled Timothy belbek the man who found her
skull and reported his findings as a transient camper and states the death was ruled a homicide and the coroner's
report indicates Heather suffered blunt-force trauma to the head this article has some interesting pieces of
information in here as well it goes on to say Heather was last seen wearing white cotton pajamas and no shoes she
had laid out an outfit for school and her bedding was rumpled as if she was asleep until something had awakened her
enter Lou Smith who is Lou Schmitt captain he's a detective that likes to climb in and out of windows he's
probably best known for his involvement in the JonBenet Ramsey case I think he's
on the smaller side to captain that might make give him the the extra super ability of climbing in and out of
windows you think so I don't think he looks small to me but hey I didn't either but I read some story where he
decided when he first became a police officer he needed to bulk up because he was like I want to say he was like five
six to maybe five seven but like a hundred and fifty pounds when he first started on the force he got into some
situation where he said a large woman was attempting to drag him across the street and she was having some success
and that's when he decided I got to start going to the gym I got a beefed-up if I'm gonna be yeah I
think that was my mother well you know I like to use the term super cop Lou Schmitt is certainly a super cop in his
career he worked on more than 200 murder cases in which a suspect had been arrested and tried for
their crimes he was a detective with the Colorado Springs Police Department he joined the force way back in 1966 and
worked his way all the way up to the rank of detective Lou helped to get the arrest and conviction of spree killer
Freddie Glenn in his accomplice Michael Corbitt Glen was found guilty of murdering three people in 1975 yeah one
of them being a Karen Grammer that's correct this including the killing of Karen
Grammer younger sister of actor Kelsey Grammer he was also involved in the arrest and conviction of Michael Corbitt
this was Freddie Glenn's accomplice so together we have Glenn who was found guilty of murdering three
people in 1975 Glenn and Corbett together were responsible for a total of five deaths in and around Colorado
Springs back in 1975 so now I would like to introduce you to another man John Anderson now I'm not talking about money
in the bank and seminal wind John Anderson no I'm talking about the John Anderson who I will deemed to be another
super cop Anderson was sworn in in January of 1995 as El Paso County's new sheriff and with him came loose mitt
Anderson wanted two things one for loose mitt to take over as captain of detectives in El Paso County and two to
solve Heather church's case which by this time 1995 was looking like it would never be
solved in the over three years of the case law enforcement really only developed per the evidence in interviews
a few suspects some of the members of Heather's church at one point turned on one another
Heather's Sunday school teacher and a family friend were questioned extensively as were Heather's parents
everyone police in the FBI looked at either had an ironclad alibi passed a polygraph test or both again
this included Heather's parents Diane and Mike definitely a lot of suspicion towards the parents I think when you
have a case like this where you have no leads no clues that's kinda where the direction that it just naturally takes
on yeah now in 1995 Lou Smith took over as captain of detectives and he took over the Heather Church investigation
Lou is pretty old-school and he said that regardless of what other people thought that they knew about the case
Mike and Diane church were not suspects he said he knew very early on in his investigation then they together or
separate were involved in any way after meeting them both and speaking with them
separately Schmidt believed they were truly victims and far too good of people to do something so terrible it's not
clear whether or not they took polygraph tests and passed or not right the information I have that came from the
Sheriff's Department states that they did okay now Smith also offered up after speaking with the parents he offered up
some of his expert opinions on the case to the parents of Heather he told them he would catch the man that killed her
he said he believed the perpetrator was an intelligent male and that his name was already in the case file he also
believed unlike the FBI that the motive behind why the perp entered the church home may not have been sexual Schmidt
wanted to start his investigation at the very beginning in reviewing the case he
noted the recovery of fingerprints from the crime scene captain Schmidt recognized that although the prince had
been forwarded to both the FBI in the CBI he was aware that there were in fact ninety two separate automated
fingerprint identification systems or atheists for short so here we are once more captain
at the latent fingerprints left on the master bedroom window screen from inside Heather church's house yeah it seems
like that's the biggest piece of evidence we have forensics expert Thomas Kearney was the man who educated Schmitt
on the trouble with the fingerprint systems in fact Kearney he came from Miami he worked in law enforcement in Miami he
was the first person to compile a list of the Atheists systems in the United States Canada and Mexico and Short North
America as said this number as of 1995 was 92 of these systems Kearney put together ninety two sets of
black-and-white photographs of the prints that they found on the window screen and this was to be mailed off to
all 92 automated finger printing identification systems in March of 1995 they got the call they were waiting on
for years so sound the trumpets captain we're still working on the trumpets he heard the crash that was good taking
lessons that was good but I mean we need some actual real trumpets they got a match in fact they got two matches one
in California and one in Louisiana so ninety-two of these different places they send off these photographs two of
them call back and say hey we got a match for you on those fingerprints that you sent us mm-hmm
the fingerprints were matched to 42 year old felon Robert Charles Brown who lived
at one six six six zero Easton Ville Road and he was one of the churches nearest neighbors
he lived in a double-wide about a half a mile from the church's home where he lived with his wife brown worked a tree
farm located on his property where he lived Brown was arrested for burglary and vehicle theft in Louisiana
where he served ten months he was also charged with something in California and I
believe he may have served a little bit of time there but his record he has a record but it's for nothing nearly as
heinous as abduction or murder in 1987 his parole was transferred from Louisiana to the state of Colorado the
fingerprints found inside the crime scene at the church's house were submitted and resubmitted over the years
to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation but for whatever reason when Brown when his parole was transferred his prints
were never entered into the CBI system so even though they're checking them there's nothing there to match them to
four days after they got the match they arrested brown outside of a store in town and brought him to the station for
questioning the first thing that they wanted to know of course did brown know the churches he said no in fact he said
he was a loner and he and his wife did not socialize much though we know their neighbors give a he lives a half a mile
away right so again it's when we talk about these different cases it's important to always kind of keep in mind
the lay of the land they owned that big property he owned a decent sized property as well he was what I believe
is reported to be their nearest neighbor but that's half a mile away they really
wanted to know had he ever been to the church's house and this would be for any reason at all right no he said in fact
the closest to their home that he had ever been was when he assisted a delivery truck that broke down on the
side of the road near the churches long driveway out to the road that is exactly
what they wanted to hear got him got him captain right got him yeah because if if this guy was known if
Robert Brown was known to do like handiwork in the area and they go hey were you ever in their house oh yeah
while I was I wasn't friends with them but I did some painting for them Wow where
did you do the painting at Oh master bedroom the other but you know I mean right then it put that gives you a that
gives a reason why the fingerprint should be there or could be there yeah and really that that is so key to this
case as you just stated he has given no reason at all for his fingerprints to be
there let alone be inside of the home well mind you that's a dumbass where where the prints were found were found
technically inside the home because the here's the thing is they ask you about your neighbors you you know that this
girl was abducted right so if you just start lying and saying well yeah you know I went over there a couple times
mm-hmm and and I'm sure they asked the family and I'm sure they didn't but I don't know they'd be covering your ass a
little bit let's get into that a bit because the this part of the story is quite
interesting I think really when they arrested him at this store that was not their intention they actually wanted to
set up they wanted to catch him meaning they wanted to get him in a conversation
asking him questions about the church homicide and and catch him that way but catch him off guard meaning that that he
doesn't know that they are looking specifically at him right so once they get the match on the fingerprints their
idea is okay let's send a handful of officers and detectives out into the area and let's knock on everybody's door
again and let's ask these sets of questions that way he thinks it's all this is just all routine you know we're
we're doing a research routine questioning of everybody in the area we're not specifically looking at you
right this is where they were hoping that he would say I've never been to their house and the problem was when
they sent all the officers out into the area he was already under surveillance at that point he
left to go shopping and at some point they got nervous the law enforcement got nervous and said we have to arrest this
guy they were really worried that when they place him in cuffs and say look you're
being arrested for the murder of Heather dawn Church right they as you said he's
a dumbass that he would wise up and go oh yeah I was there to do yard work or whatever yeah I babysit him
yeah because even even if the churches said no that's not the truth now you had she said you yeah you have
his word against theirs yeah now the reason why police believe that he wasn't smart enough to come up
with something like that ya know actually they think that that he was so convinced that he never left his
fingerprints there meaning they believed that he was wearing gloves during the abduction and he may have taken them off
very briefly to replace the the screen right and very likely he's being questioned about this three years later
he remembers that he wore gloves to the crime scene but doesn't remember taking them off for a very brief time yeah that
makes a lot of sense so he's so surprised by this whole deal of him leaving fingerprints there that he tells
them straight up he's he's without a lawyer at this point in the questioning and he's telling them there's no way
possible that those are my fingerprints he said I don't doubt that you found fingerprints there I doubt that they're
mine and they say well we have your fingerprints back from when you were arrested in Louisiana and we rechecked
them they got a match in Louisiana we got a match with your old fingerprints in California he goes well that's well
and good but people make mistakes my fingerprints could have been mixed up with somebody else's you know what you
put we're testing our pictures he's saying take my fingerprints right now and test them again because I'm telling
you my fingerprints were not there right that's how adamant he was and they did so and they checked it again right so
now you have that in your back pocket as the detectives are questioning Robert Charles Brown yeah and during all of
this remember he's asking for to be tested again take new fingerprints they're doing all this to test it again
and while they're doing this they talked him into a polygraph test yeah and later
he's told he failed the test and he's told again it doesn't matter how many times we fingerprint you and run the
test they are still matching the set that we found on the window screen at the churches home right the other thing
too captain is during these interviews while they're being conducted the police were at Browns home they're searching
the place they already had a search warrant before they arrested him there they found girls clothing and girls
jewelry stuffed into a pillowcase he has no children this is a bit unexplained what this stuff was or where it came
from what is explained is that none of it belonged to Heather they also know it it's probably trophies of some kind yeah
so they found stolen items from another home that was another residence that was
kind of nearby mm-hmm so these could have just been things that they don't have to be from another
murder victim they could be things that he stole from somebody's home they found
this is just straight-up bizarre I've never heard of this before but I do know people steal these types of things I've
just never found one in any of the cases we've covered they found a stolen Bobcat
earthmover machine worth $18,000 now captain you and I both know that is not a small machine mm-hmm that's a large
thing to have stolen from someone apparently I don't know why he stole it he must have used it for some kind of
work keep in mind he had that tree farm he had a big plot of land there's some suspicions as to what he could have used
it for but his his wife was aware that he stole this large machine she said he used it the only thing that
she knew that he used it for was he dug a big hole with it drove the machine into the hole and then attempted to
cover it up attempted to bury it or just cover it up bury the machine as said they found
stolen items from another house or other residences in the area this is you know
the some of the more alarming stuff they found newspaper clippings a lot of them
are guarding Heather church's case mm-hmm he was in fact arrested that day and charged with murder he would be
offered eventually actually pretty quickly after the arrest he was offered a deal an offer to his public defender
this would be so he could avoid the death penalty and this likely may have been the best-case scenario for the
investigators seeing that at this point when they make this offer all they have as far as evidence goes is his
fingerprints right later on they did get Brown's wife to admit that he was not home
the night Heather vanished so we have a fingerprint and we have no solid alibi correct now he brown maintained his
innocence when he spoke with the police but he did ultimately end up playing guilty to murder this so he could avoid
the death penalty and trade he got life in prison this move was quite interesting the prosecutor they didn't
really think that that brown or his attorney would take the bait take the plea deal right
because again such little evidence they really made a strong push and what they did was they were vetting this guy they
were calling where they knew he was from this guy had moved around a lot they called his home town where he lived for
a long period of time and realized that former neighbors of his one of them had gone missing and one of them was
murdered okay both of those cases unsolved in fact the missing mamani on top of on top of Heather church's case
correct yeah and so what their threat was we'll call it a threat their threat to the
defense attorney was he he should probably hurry up and plead guilty to this before we find another body right
so ultimately that's what took place the prosecutor did check with Heather's parents first to make sure that they
were okay with them making an offer Heather's mother Diane said if he is willing to plead guilty she is willing
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[Music] all right welcome back cheers everybody Cheers she must be Colonel ooh cheers to you
through the glasses at Krispy they've separated us I feel like I'm in solitary confinement well that's where you belong
all right I can't see you all I do is hear voices mm-hmm so while Robert Brown never confessed to the detectives and
never confessed in court it's believed that he confessed to Susan Lawrence this was his placement counselor and
what he told her she passed along to authorities so let's go through this what what she told the authorities he
said to her she said that he Brown enjoyed roaming his neighborhood at night looking for houses to burglarize
sometimes he would take things sometimes he wouldn't when he went to the church's
residence there were two lights on inside the house and no cars in the driveway and he did not think that
anyone was home he was surprised by Heather Church inside the house and killing her he says was unintentional
Brown said that he did kill Heather inside the home he placed one hand over her mouth and one hand on her neck he
demonstrated this to miss Lawrence when he's telling her this story and said he recalled doing this for only a couple of
seconds he thought but now believes it must have been for a longer period of time he assumed that he had strangled
her because she was dead when it was over mm-hmm now mrs. Lawrence asked Brown if it was possible that he had
broke her neck and to which he replied that that was a possibility yeah because I mean Browns a pretty big guy he's like
6-3 roughly yeah you know Robert Brown said he placed Heather church's body in the back of
his pickup truck and drove to the mountains where he disposed of the body he denied having any sexual contact with
Heather Church alright so BAM boom bang case closed yep get my coat yeah I'm to tip my hat
and ride no pure you locked up you're right captain that is not it because there's much more to this story in 1996
Robert Charles Brown who is supposed to be rotting away in his cell and Colorado
state corrections he receives a letter this is an anonymous letter the letter says you got screwed and here's why
there was something wrong with Colorado state law and from July 9th to September
20th of 1999 I was good up to September 20th of 1991 Colorado was without a death penalty this is truly bizarre
we've never come across anything like this in any of her cases mm-hmm so what that means is when tonight when she was
abducted when Heather was removed from the home technically the state of Colorado for that very brief time period
less than 90 days didn't have the death poem does not have the death penalty so the offer then of hey plead guilty and
we take the death penalty off the table it was never on the table because it didn't exist during the the timeframe in
which she disappeared [ __ ] offer yeah so this gets pointed out to him and now we have the appeals process
whoever's pointing it out to this scumbag yeah why this is also a scumbag let it be he got screwed well good right
unless it was one of those things where the guy was trying to rub it in his face
you know like you're so something you didn't know this yeah I mean but you know what got screwed because the case
took so many years to apprehend somebody right I don't think that the prosecutors did
anything malicious here I don't think they were aware either no like you said it was a small window like 90-day window
yeah it's just one of these weird inconsistencies one of these weird little glitches that was that was going
on there unaware of it so anyway now we have the appeals process he's got a pretty damn good appeal when you think
about it hey I pled guilty to something that only because the death penalty was being thrown in my face in the face in
the face well the current prosecutor the the one that now has to face these appeals comes up with a great plan he
says to the court system look she was abducted on the 17th this whole thing with with the no death
penalty expired on the 20th that's just a couple days later mm-hmm he's also saying it took us all this time to solve
the case she was found over 20 miles away from her home where she was abducted we the Prosecutor's Office believed that
the crime was sexual in nature that the motive was sexual nature and based off of all of that evidence in theory and
thought it is our argument that we cannot say for certain that her murder occurred on the 17th that it's very
likely he may have kept her for a couple of days and the murder occurred on the 20th or even later to this the appeals
courts at least two of them that I could find they agreed with that they said look you can't prove the date of when
she was killed and if you do you know he's in all kinds of trouble and all kinds of mess here because now if you go
back to he proves what day she was killed then he proves that he killed her and he boom he still ends up with life
in prison Brett so I I think that's just truly fascinating and the prosecutor later came out and said look I thought
my argument was a good one but a weak one it was intelligent argument but it was a very weak one he thought that they
would lose turns out that they win this thing got all the way up to I believe the Colorado
Supreme Court state Supreme Court to which I think they tossed it out and said we don't even want to look at this
thing truly when you have a child killer nobody wants this guy to get out on some
kind of technicality well yeah and on top of that you think he's possibly linked to other crimes that's correct
and that's still not the end of our story captain because on March 30th 2008 brought sent an unsolicited letter to
the 4th Judicial District Attorney's Office in Colorado Springs the letter was addressed to whom it may concern
inside this letter and I don't have the full letter itself I don't know if the full letter has ever been released to
the public but there is within this letter a statement from Brown this says this is very cryptic seven sacred
virgins entombed side-by-side those less worthy are scattered wide the letter taunted investigators claiming the score
is you won the other team 48 the obvious reference here being that he was arrested tried and convicted of the
murder of Heather Dawn Church they scored one the other team must be him Robert Brown he's got a score of 48 so
obviously he's implying that he's involved in other crimes possibly other murders another statement included in
this letter says if you were to drive to the endzone in a white Trans Am the score could be 9 to 48 that would
complete your home courts fear let's go so real dumbass Brown closed the letter by demanding that he not be contacted
now there was a second letter that was sent well so he sent a letter and then he said don't contact me and here's
an ugly letter they sent another letter yeah the second letter for my understanding I believe even less of
that letter has been reported over the years maybe maybe even some of the statements I just read could have been
from the second letter itself it's all very cryptic his writings and what has been released is it's not clear if it's
if some of the letters are just short and they were released in their entirety and then other letters were longer and
only bits and pieces were actually released but what we do know with the second letter there that one included a
map and we would later learn that the map was he took a piece of paper put it over over a map like in an atlas and
made the outlines of several different states and so he outlined the state of Washington California Colorado New
Mexico Oklahoma Texas Arkansas Mississippi and Louisiana and inside each one of those states that he
outlined he put a number this number totaling up to 48 so almost indicating that with inside this state for instance
state of Washington he wrote the number 1 I've killed one person in the state of
Colorado he put the number 9 in Louisiana the number being the highest of all the numbers was 17 mm-hmm this
captain I believe probably would have went nowhere because he's writing to the district attorney's office in Colorado
Springs they don't seem to have any interest in corresponding with inmate Robert Brown turns out then about two
years later a man named Charlie Hess is going to send a letter to Robert Brown he doesn't know that Robert Brown has in
fact sent these letters already to the district attorney's office Charlie Hesse is a former CIA agent and
he was working with a guy and I say working they were kind of doing this as as a hobby but Charlie has along with
some other individuals were working with Lew Schmitt all these guys were pretty much retired by this time what they
would do is they would get together about once a week they would hang out they would eat pastries drink coffee
smoke cigarettes and they would talk about old cases mm-hm and really what they were focusing on was they were
wanting to take on some cold cases all of these individuals were involved in law enforcement or the CIA at some time
this would be a good group of people to volunteer to take on a cold case now during some of their discussions it
comes up that one of the individuals wants to know hey Lou or anybody here in our group as anybody worked in putting
away a murderer that they believe was truly a very dangerous person that was was a serial killer was one of these
people that had numbers you know multiple murders that they had committed Lou Smith says to his group I always
felt Robert Charles Brown was a serial killer and so much so that when we were working to put him away we were aware
that way back in Louisiana a neighbor of his one went missing and another neighbor was found dead was found
murdered so there's already a bit of a connection I've seen a lot of people cover this portion of the story and a
lot of people have done a good job in doing so but what is usually lost in this Heather churches case is usually
kind of a by the way or a way to kickstart the whole story of Robert Brown and his communications with these
cold-case volunteer investigators right and often it's reported that Lou Schmitt
just had some kind of sixth-sense that he was was a gut feeling that he had been
working the these types of the cases so long that he just had a sixth sense that
Robert Brown was a serial killer he had a he had a sense that Robert Brown was a
serial killer because they were aware of a missing former neighbor of his and a murdered former neighbor of his doesn't
take much to you know you don't have to have a sixth sense to come up with that heathered on church was a neighbor of
his as well so you see a similar type of mo it's really a bit of a shame that when we talk about these cases from
Louisiana I find it strange that within just a handful of months these two cases
take place we have a murder somebody goes missing both of these individuals were neighbors of his but they were
neighbors within the same apartment complex as him and further Robert Brown worked as the maintenance man for this
apartment complex his brother I believe was the owner or the landlord of these apartments it's really strange to me
that they weren't able to make any type of connection I think with the missing woman with her case that the husband was
under suspicion and that would make an obvious reason why you wouldn't connect them but with with the missing woman she
apparently had the doors had the locks on her doors changed the day before by the maintenance man of the apartment
complex who in fact was Robert Brown it seems like there would have been a connection to some of these individuals
yeah and even though Robert Brown claimed that he didn't want to be contacted there'd be a bunch of
corresponding emails for years yeah well letters right and so it's almost like Charlie has kind of befriended Robert
Charles Brown and got him to open up we have a man who says he doesn't want to talk it is in Charley's Arsenal though
that he is aware that look this is the guy that opened up the dialogue he started the
dialogue on some psychological level he does want to talk and so I'm going to work that angle and see what I can get
from him it's interesting that you have a guy a serial killer locked up and I will I will say serial killer because I
believe him to be just that but we have someone like we've seen so many times before now he's coming out playing this
game of I know more than you know and here's all the other bad things that I've done but I'm not going to tell you
all the bad things that I've done I'm going to hint and nudge and wink you through it and you got to figure it out
on your own mm-hmm it's all really truly I mean it's a lot of it I feel is [ __ ] and I don't really want to
waste anybody's time here by going through all of the correspondents because as you said this goes on for
quite some time and really all Charles Hess wants to do is he wants to sit down and speak with Robert Brown face-to-face
that's what Charlie has did in the CIA back in the day of the Vietnam War he was somebody that interviewed people
during wartime he gave lie-detector tests during wartime he is extremely good at
communicating with people getting people to open up getting people to tell the story tell the truth and figuring out
what are the truths and what are the lies with inside their story he eventually through befriending or at
least letting Robert Charles Brown believe that the to our friends got brown to allow him to speak with him
face to face and this all it did was open up correspondence because Brown was giving little hints and winks and nudges
saying I've killed roughly like you said captain I've killed 48 people 47 of them
you don't know about and some of their talks and correspondence he had the number as high as 51 but he was really
giving them nothing to go off of he's like look I um they keep telling him you got to tell
more if you want us to clear any of these cases we can't do anything with this and if you don't give us more
information we don't think you're serious we think that either you're making this [ __ ] up
or you've lost it and you believe it to be true and it's not true at all mm-hmm eventually they get him to talk
and give more details on some of these cases where he will go you know maybe give a nickname of an
individual maybe give a spot where he dumped the body so on and so forth and this leads them to throughout months and
years of working on this this leads them to starting to complete some of the story
now mind you all of the states that he listed that he drew on that map he did live in those states and they could find
evidence that he in fact lived in those states at one point and the three states
that he listed as having the highest number of kills interestingly enough are the three states where he spent the most
time so there was some stuff there was some meat on the bone in the beginning for these investigators to believe that
there could be some truth to Robert Browns story now we know with these Psychopaths and these narcissists none
of this would come without him getting something in return for offering up this information he was unhappy with the way
that he was being treated he did not like where he was being housed and he also didn't feel that he was receiving
proper medical treatment basically he wanted to transfer and again Charlie has pushed him and said we can't help you
unless you help us eventually through a lot of back and forth and through a lot of working and a lot of hard work what
we end up getting is we get another solved case because in July of 2006 Brown pled guilty to the murder of rocío
Sperry this he was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole for 40 years now unfortunately this did not
come without Brown getting some in return Brown was then transferred to the state of Minnesota to serve out his
time there what's very weird here captain is I found an interview with Heather church's father Mike and I believe it
was from 2015 or 16 where he had a complaint and a very valid complaint he's saying because of Browns
manipulation of the system because he's working these deals to get moved and and
plead guilty to an unsolved case that he did not know where the killer of his daughter was being housed and he felt
that that was unfair and I agree 100% because at some point Brown was moved and it wasn't public knowledge to know
where he was located I found a letter that is believed I have plenty a reason to believe that it was written by Robert
Brown where he states the at that time he was housed in Florida in the state of Florida and there he is complaining that
they reneged on the plea agreement that he was supposed to be in Minnesota and after being in Minnesota for four years
they transferred him to Florida where he does not want to be and I hope he stays
where he does not want to be welcome to Florida the thing captain that we have here and I do want to say I am very the
thing that I want to say here captain is that I think that is great the work that
Charlie has Lou Smith and all of their little cold-case volunteer work that they did is fantastic yeah I don't want
to say it's all [ __ ] and it's all for naught because they did get a conviction in the rocío speery case and
that was so important not just to get another case off the books not just to get some answers but for so many years
her husband was thought to be the one that was guilty of her disappearance and we now know that that's not true
mm-hmm and that guy was a victim himself not just from being the husband of a murder victim but he was a victim of
being thought of as being guilty of her disappearance and her murder for so many
years so I'm very glad and very happy that they got that one off the books I do think that a lot of Browns
communication and a lot of what he hints at we talked about a number of 48 possible victims I think that that's
total bogus bogus I think it's a bogus number that he came up with we're talking about he's saying this in the
early 2000s and at the time I believe a number of 48 would put him at the highest number for a serial killer
that's who he wants to be he's never been anybody important he wants to be somebody important and he
does not mind the attention why because he is so guilty of heathered on church's
murder and now he's locked up in a place he does not want to be for life and he has nothing to do he is to put it
quite frankly he is bored everything that he did when he was on the outside a lot of it being illegal a lot of it
being perverted deviant behavior he cannot do now and so he's come up with some kind of game to pass the time he's
come up with a number that makes him important when he is not I also think that part of this game is he feels
screwed by the prosecutor by the District Attorney's Office of Colorado that because he as you said was dumb
enough to one not give a good reason why he would have been at the church's house
two didn't lawyer up three agree to a polygraph test in which he failed and then four please guilty so he can avoid
the death penalty yet there was no death penalty yeah so welcome to Florida dumbass I think he feels tricked because
he was he was an idiot he was stupid he was a [ __ ] he feels tricked and now his way of retaliating is to
send them on this wild goose chase keep in mind who did he direct his letter to he didn't send it to the media he didn't
send it to the El Paso County Sheriff's Office he sent it to the district attorney's office the same district
attorney's office that was able to put him in prison for life for the death for the murder of Heather Don Church now I
do believe with inside this 48 this magical number of 48 captain I do believe that there are some other
victims in there of note of of note of ones that he actually provided some detailed information this would be the
murder of Katherine Hayes from Louisiana Wanda Hudson and face self also of Louisiana melody Bush and Nydia Mendoza
both from Texas and then Lisa Lowe who was killed in Arkansas so while I do feel that a lot of his stuff is probably
[ __ ] I would love to see some further movement on some of these other cases where there was some detailed
information provided by Robert Brown unfortunately loose mitt has passed away he passed away he had cancer and by the
time the cancer was found it spread to his entire body yeah but I agree a lot of good work here and Robert Charles
Brown deserves any bad thing that's coming his way the other thing about his if you want to try to call them
confessions regarding these murders even the ones where he offers detailed information what you will see is him
minimizing his involvement him minimizing his role in the murder of these individuals I personally believe
that most of his murders if not all of them were sexual in nature they they seem to be that that was the
the driving force for his actions I don't know about when he set out to enter the home to heathered on church's
house but what I will say here regarding his [ __ ] confession that he offered up to his placement counselor what do
you see there straight up minimizes his involvement in the whole situation it makes it it's all
so confusing to him he killed her he didn't even really know why he killed her he didn't he didn't intend to kill
her and I think that is absolute BS I think that there's a lot of evidence that will show that there was no reason
for him to remove her from that house his confession somewhat makes it sound like she surprised him and he reacted
and before he could realize what was going on she was dead there's evidence to suggest that she may have been
sleeping when he came upon her that night great and if he was afraid or got scared all of sudden because he entered
a home that he thought was empty and he reacted and that was the result you just
can't believe that because if she was sleeping he had the opportunity to be afraid and then leave the home after he
was in the home and when he left there the only thing that was missing from that home was that little girl
[Music] whatever struggles you are facing from depression and anxiety to trauma and
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slash garage a lot of really good sources for this case here captain one of the better ones is the newspaper The
Gazette they covered this case pretty extensively over the years and did a very good job one of the best sources is
this week's recommended reading it's a book titled the devil's right-hand man the true story of serial killer Robert
Charles Brown you can write that title down now so you can pick that up and find out more if you're busy just go to
our web site later go to our recommended page go to true crime garage com we will
have that title there for you so you can make that selection and add that to your
library we want to thank everybody for listening we want to thank everybody for the wonderful 5-star reviews and we want
to thank you all for telling your friends about true crime garage until next time be good be kind don't let it
[Music]

Source: https://www.podbean.com/eau/pb-c64sd-c1c712

Heather Dawn Church /// Part 2 /// 340 Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com September 17th, 1991 Heather Dawn Church vanishes. She was abducted from her home in Black Forest, Colorado. Join as we go year by year through the investigation. Beer of the Week - Killer Cupcake Panda by Flying Monkey Craft Brewery Garage Grade 4 and 3 quarter bottle caps out of 5 We have the best sponsors and it’s time that you experience the awesomeness! www.Everlane.com/Garage - get FREE shipping on your first order! www.Bombas.com/Garage - get 20% OFF your first purchase! www.BetterHelp.com/Garage - use code GARAGE for 10% off your first month!

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Brief Summary

Heather Church's murder leads to Robert Charles Brown's arrest and confessions, raising questions about additional victims and unresolved cases.

Key points

The Search for Heather Church. It took almost two years to find Heather Church's remains, leading to a complex investigation.
Detective Lou Smith's Involvement. Detective Lou Smith took over the investigation in 1995, determined to solve the case.
Fingerprint Match Leads to Arrest. A match on fingerprints leads to the arrest of Robert Charles Brown, a key suspect.
Bizarre Findings at Brown's Home. Police discover strange items, including girls' clothing and a stolen earthmover, at Brown's residence.
Plea Deal Offered to Brown. Robert Brown pleads guilty to avoid the death penalty, trading it for life in prison.
Bombas Comfort Innovations. Bombas socks feature innovative designs for ultimate comfort and durability.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I got to beefed-up if I'm gonna be a cop.

Lou Smith's motivation to get fit.

5:20WatchOct 2, 2019

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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