Hate American Made ////// Oklahoma City Bombing | Forensic Files

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[Music] See dealer for financing details by an unspeakable act. The apocalypse would occur soon.
More white supremacist groups, more anti-government groups. David Caresh. Ruby Ridge siege. Timothy
McVey. More than 80 people dead. Bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City. Eight by an unspeakable act. There is so
little hope left. The following is from McVey, the inside story of the Oklahoma bombing. But I
don't believe that it is proprietary to that publication. I believe here, Captain, that this was in several
publications in the first in the late '9s and then made its way to book form later. But this portion reads right
here, April 19th, 1995, 5 minutes before the bomb ripped through the Alfred P. Mora Federal
Building and killed 168 people. Timothy McVey lit the backup fuse. McVey had pulled over in
front of an abandoned Firestone garage in downtown Oklahoma City, parking for a few minutes on the unused driveway by a
chainlink fence. Across the street stood the high-rise Regency Towers apartment complex. Inside a convenience store on
the apartment's ground floor, a security camera caught a hazy image of McVeyy's rider truck. The camera timestamped the
photo at 857 a.m. Inside the truck, McVey picked up a long green cannon fuse from the floor. It ran through the wall
in the back of the cab. He took it between his fingers and snapped a lighter to it. The fuse lit with a hiss
of sparks and smoke. He dropped the crackling fuse behind the seat. Knowing canon fuse burns at a steady rate of
about 30 seconds a foot. He put the truck into gear, eased back out, and drove up Fifth Street. A red light
stopped him at Fifth and Harvey. While waiting at the light, he lit another fuse, the primary, which he had about a
3minut burn. As a US Army doctorate dictated, the bomb now had two ways to explode. Waiting at the red light, smoke
billowing into the cab, McVey anxiously eyed the dark glass Alfred P. Mura building looming one block ahead. Then,
as we all know, Captain, at 9:02 a.m., on that morning, that spring morning in Oklahoma City, the bomb explodes in the
rider truck parked outside the Alfred P. Mura Federal Building. So, what we learn
here is that he took great efforts to make sure that the bomb that he and Nicholls had constructed would in factly
it would in fact do what it was planned to do. that he lit two fuses, a backup fuse to make sure that this bomb would
ignite and go off and destroy the building and whoever was inside. It's been stated that the original plan was
to blow up the truck in the parking garage portion of this building, which was located under
the building. Now, that would mirror some previous terrorist attacks like the I think it was
1993 with the attempt on the World Trade Center when a bomb a similar plan was hatched to drive a truck loaded with
explosives into the parking garage located underneath the World Trade Center. The story as it goes here with
Oklahoma City is that McVey failed to understand that the truck he was in was too tall to get into the parking garage
and that he actually had planned to blow up the truck at 11:00 a.m. rather than 900 a.m. But this 5 minutes that he has
is not only to put the truck into place, but also to give him time to get out of
there prior to lighting these the fuses. He had already planted a getaway vehicle. And so he basically pulls up
and locks the truck, gets out and starts moving quickly away from the vehicle, dropping the keys to the rider
truck a block or two away, and then he gets in his getaway vehicle and he drives off. Now, one thing that we
talked yesterday about here, Captain, was the debate on how many people were involved in this this plot, this
terrorist plot. How many people knew about it? How many people may have provided funding or encouragement to
McVey? Well, we do know that that Nicholls was involved in this. We we know that with 100% certainty. But one
thing that is interesting is the only person to ever testify as to seeing anybody leaving that rider truck does
not describe anybody that looks like Timothy McVey leaving leaving the rider truck. and in fact describes two people
saying claiming that they saw two people walking away from the truck. The interesting thing to me here, Captain,
is that doesn't necessarily mean that they saw two people in the truck, two people get out of this truck. And can
you imagine the amount of chaos that ensued at 9:02 a.m. that morning? I I I don't I don't know that anybody would be
thinking clearly just minutes after seeing something as normal as a as a truck driving down the street and then
parking somewhere parking near the front of this building. But you said we do have some of this stuff on surveillance
footage. So, does the surveillance footage show more than one individual or does it always You can't see anybody.
You can only see the truck. You can see the rider truck. And and truly as horrific of an act as this is, I mean,
this is the as far as casualties go, this is the worst act of homegrown terrorism that this country has ever
experienced and hopefully will ever experience. No, it the trial with Timothy McVey was built on
circumstantial evidence. There's there's no there's not anything other than a bunch of circumstances that we know to
be true that once you pile them up that you can say with a great deal of confidence that yes, Timothy McVey was
in Oklahoma City that morning, was in the rider truck, built the bomb, and was responsible for delivering the truck to
and parking in front of the Alfred P. Mura building. There's nobody that says they saw Timothy McVey
in the rider truck. There's nobody that says they saw Timothy McVey even in Oklahoma City that morning. But let's
get into some of the details of it here. As said, the bomb explodes at 9:02 a.m.
By 9:03 a.m., there's over a thousand 911 calls that are placed in Oklahoma City. And thi this is due to not just
the building in this act of terrorism but the the explosion itself captain was felt up to 4 miles away. And I've seen
people interviewed where they say, "Yeah, that morning I was working at X location in downtown Oklahoma City and
everyone's head at 9:02 a.m. Everyone's head turned in the direction of the Alfred P. Mura
building." That's no matter where you were working in that city that morning. It was felt and heard over four miles
away. And it actually registered on the RTOR scale at at a at a 3.0. So some people might have thought it was an
earthquake. Might have thought it was an earthquake. Definitely an explosion. The
other the the a very chaotic portion of this is hearing this maybe even being able to mentally identify this as a very
large explosion but not knowing where it came from. sometimes to try to wrap your
head around something and try to get a full grasp of the situation. It's very easy for us to look at
these horrific events and these crimes as we do here and and try to gather a full understanding of it or or believe
that we do, but you're doing that all in retrospect. So, with an event like this
and anytime we have a a true crime case where there's a manhunt or there's an investigation that follows, especially
the ones that kind of drag out, what you really want to do to get a full understanding of these scenarios is to
review what people were saying in the moments when they had no idea what the hell was going on. or to the great to
the grander scheme of things or the larger picture of what is going on. I thought that I had a good deal of
sympathy, sadness, and anger about this event, but then when I started reading through some of the details of things
that I had never even been able to consider, right? And and we're talking the seconds after this happened and and
the minutes after this happened, it's it's not just horrific, it's chaotic. And now you you already talked about the
number of casualties. And of course that that number is growing as the day goes along. But the people that survived the
explosion, there were plenty of people in that building, thankfully so, that survived that explosion, many of them
tell us that first it was confusion, right? So, one woman says that she was sitting in her office chair at her desk,
902 bomb explodes, and it throws her chair and all about 10 ft from her desk into the wall behind her. And as she is
pulling herself up and off of the floor, she looks around and nobody that was in
the room with her prior is there anymore. And she says that she first of all she had no idea what the hell was
going on. She almost thought like she's in a dream or maybe a nightmare. And her
first reaction was was like loudly but casually saying like, "Hey, where'd you where'd you guys go? Where'd everybody
go?" And not hearing anybody respond. For those of you that have not seen a picture of this and don't know what this
what this looks like, it it's beyond de devastating. Yeah, it blew the entire front off of this building. We talked
about it being a glass front that that I think the glass Yes, it aided in that, but I I don't think it had much to do
with it. That this bomb was so large. And we talked about the RTOR scale. We talked about people feeling it, seeing
it, hearing it four miles away. It blew a big portion of this building off. So this building, it it did nine floors
worth of damage, which is the entirety of the building, and it it blew off and just completely destroyed the front
portion of the building. And then I've read a few different descriptions of this and and they give varying sizes, so
I don't know what I'm hesitant to report what the actual size was, but the bomb also blew a giant crater in the earth
underneath the building. Some say it was 20 feet or or even 30 feet deep, possibly 30 feet wide. It was
so destructive that it that it did damage to all of the surrounding buildings. It did damage to nearly every
building, some form of damage to nearly every building in Oklahoma City, downtown Oklahoma City. It destroyed
cars that were across the street, cars that were parked down the block. I mean, it the amount of damage. And then some
of the people that were inside that were able to recognize what happened, they thought, well, holy [ __ ] there whoever
tried to blow this up or whatever reason why for the explosion, there's going to
be another one. I need to get out of here. Well, it's not so simple when half the building doesn't exist anymore.
Right. And we don't know what the devastation would have been. I'm assuming a lot more if Timothy was able
to put it in the location he wanted to originally. I think with the level of planning that I believe went into this,
I think he was going for the greatest effect, for the most destruction, the largest body count. And I think you're
exactly right, Captain. I think if that was his plan and if that if those were his goals, well then that was part of
his plan to achieve those goals. And so he had to have some thinking or thought that that's would be the way to do the
most damage. I read one story of a man who was on the ninth floor with no way for him to get out of the building
because oh the stairwell that that he would leave from his office from if if he were to take the stairwell that
wasn't there anymore. So now you're on the ninth floor standing in a room where it doesn't have four walls anymore. It
has one complete wall and two partial walls. and basically a ninestory drop plus the crater
below between you and the ground. And he said he made the decision in that moment
cuz he was convinced that there would be another explosion that would blow up the
the remaining portion of the building. He goes out on window ledges on the ninth floor and said that he did it out
of pure desperation because he was convinced he only had minutes to escape. And he had he did some [ __ ] like you
would see out of the movies, man, where he he gets to a part where there's no more window ledge for him to move along
to and he has to jump over a portion of the building that is no longer there so he can get his feet back to to the floor
and make it to the other side for that stairwell so he can get out of there. There's not just casualties, there's
also hundreds of victims that were just injured. Oh yes. Yeah, there were people
that were injured that weren't even inside the building. And then of course the most difficult part of this is is
the children that were killed there. It was a daycare center on the the second floor of the Mura building. Children of
all ages inside of that that daycare center. And it was I don't know that's it's
that's one of those parts of the story that later McVey and Nicholls would say that they didn't know that there was a
daycare center in there. Um but yeah, it seems like [ __ ] though. These guys are complete [ __ ] that they're
they're there's enough hate in their hearts that that their response to it was, "Well, we didn't care. Even though
we didn't know, we we didn't care." uh that that that anybody in that building was collateral damage for their greater
cause that they were or their their war that they decided they were fighting. Well, guess what? You weren't fighting
that war against the people like the ATF or the FBI or the US Marshall Service. No, you chose to while while those
agencies may have had some offices within that building, there were also offices that were filled with public
services and with other with the daycare, things that weren't part of the ATF and not part of the IRS or the
Secret Service. Ultimately, man, you're you chose to ignite a war or start a war
against the government or these government agencies, but but who did you ultimately attack? Civilians,
right? And children, just like Bill Clinton said, innocent children. You you went after innocent children. And so you
can you can [ __ ] and complain and try to rally the troops as much as you want and point and say that the ATF did this
to a bunch of kids inside of Waco. Well, then you're no more right than they are
than than the enemy that you came up with in your head. Now, we know there's a racial component to Timothy McVeyy's
ideology, but was there a religious component as well? Obviously in Waco there was a religious component to
everything and then I I think you could make an argument that there was some kind of religious or spiritual component
to Ruby Ridge. Could be. I feel like with Ruby Ridge that they the Weaver family was just more terrified of this
agency and that they that the Randy was going to be wrongfully incarcerated. Of course with
Waco there's absolutely a religious component. I mean, it's that's at the center of the story. And then with with
this one with McVey, I don't feel like there is. There's nothing really to suggest that coming from his words,
coming from his plans. As far as the race part goes, that gets a little more dicey to sort out because the Turner
Diaries that was such a big part of Timothy McVey and such a big part of his life. We talked about what that story
centered around. It was it was blowing up a federal building, starting a a war with the government, overthrowing the
government, and then it leads to a race war. What all McVey was hoping to achieve by blowing up this building is
in so incredibly difficult to try to deduce. I don't feel comfortable saying it. Number one. And number two, I don't
really at the end of the day, Kevin, I really don't believe that he knew 100%. I don't I don't think that his as much
as he claimed that he had this great war that he was fighting or this great revolution that he was going to lead, I
don't believe that he was smart enough to to to know any of that or to have any rationale to to what he was doing. Well,
we know that Timothy McVey was connected to Waco as as a civilian, right? He's not involved uh as any of the government
entities. He's not uh one of the Deinians, right? But correct. He's not a Devidian. Devidian, sorry. But if you go
back to Schnell, he's connected to him on on some level through the his racist ideologies, but Schnell is the one that
really came up with this idea to bomb this building in the first place. Yes. Yes. So, at one point, Snell and some
other cohorts had a plan to fire that rocket launcher from the back of a vehicle into the Alfred P. Mura
building. and Snell targeted this building because the IRS was there and because of because of
some of the offices in in much a similar way that Timothy McVey did because and McVey was right in in this part that
some of those agencies that had offices in the Mura building were not only a part of Waco, but but there were people
that worked inside the Mura building that were at Waco that were part of the siege. And so we it gets difficult to
say that what was the tie how and if there were ties between McVey and Snell, how how strong
were those ties? Because one thing we do know is that McVey had some interaction
with Elum City, which we know that Snell had not just interaction and worked with
some of the the groups that lived there, but also would stay there and considered
that Elom City his air quotes home base. Regardless of any of that, and we let's
circle back to that as we tear through some more of these facts here of the case. But interestingly enough, McVey in
his little getaway vehicle, he doesn't make it very far. So, the the bomb explodes at 9:02 a.m. At approximately
10:20 a.m., Timothy McVey is stopped by an Oklahoma Highway Patrol officer for a
very simple minor traffic infraction. He doesn't have a rear license plate. So, he's pulled over for having
no plate. And the officer is discussing and telling McVey why he was pulled over and
asked to see his registration, driver's license, what have you. And when McVey goes to reach for his driver's license,
the officer then says that he could tell that McVey was was packing, that he had
a gun. And so sure enough, he he he says to the driver, Timothy McVey, he says, "Are are you carrying a weapon?" And and
McVey says, "Yes, he is." And in fact, Timothy McVey was carrying a loaded Glock 45 caliber semi-automatic handgun
tucked under his shirt. And McVey is arrested by the trooper right there after being pulled over at 10:20.
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And cheers to you, Colonel. Cheers to you, Captain. As said, shortly after 10:20 a.m., Timothy McVey is arrested.
He charged with failure to display a rear license plate, failure to provide proof of vehicle insurance, unlawful
transportation of a firearm in a motor vehicle, and unlawful carrying a concealed weapon. McVeyy's weapon was
registered. From my understanding, it just wasn't registered in the state of Oklahoma. Regardless of that, we know
that of all these different infractions here, he is detained and he's transported to the Noble County Jail
located in Perry, Oklahoma. Now, of course, the trooper and the officers there at the Noble County Jail, they
have no idea who they just arrested. They don't know that they've arrested the guy that just parked this truck and
blew up the front of the Alfred P. Mura building, but he's going to be kept there. He's going to be he's going to be
stored there, if you will, at the county jail. And meanwhile, we have an investigation that
is going to try to get up and running amongst the rubble and the casualties. You know, one one other
horrific thing to try to I mean to try to sort out in the chaos of the explosion is even after they had
emergency personnel and services there at the scene, digging through, looking for survivors, hoping for survivors,
finding fatalities. Some of the victims were in such bad shape that when they would find uh when they would find a
victim, they would also collect some of the items that were around them, hoping that if they couldn't physically
identify the victim, that maybe the the items that were found around them would help to identify them ultimately, right?
you know, and some of the some of the people uh yes, were killed in their offices
and and that would lead to an easier way to identify them. But but even with the
children, they collected some of the toys around the children because they were so in such bad condition that they
wouldn't be able to identify them. and they hoped that maybe the parents or relatives or somebody would be able to
identify the toys that were found near these victims as well. And they c man they called in for and requested 300
body bags. This is after they already arrived on scene and a lot of times emergency services are arriving on scene
with body bags. Unfortunately, they called in and requested additional 300 body bags trying to sort through this
chaos, the wreckage, the explosion. But we have to have an investigation. And of
course because of the attack on the World Trade Center in 1993 and it being very similar in nature, the first
thought media jumped to this conclusion, law enforcement jumped to this conclusion. Probably American the
American public jumped to this conclusion as well that everybody thought that we would be looking for a
couple of Middle Eastern terrorists. I mean, that's who was responsible for the the attempt on the the World Trade
Center building. What really started this investigation down the right path was investigators discovered a large axle, a
large uh axle weighing about 250 lbs that was found about 500 ft from the spot of the lo of the explosion. due to
due to its condition, due to what the the experts were seeing, they're thinking this is
probably the axle of the truck that was parked here that that blew up and blew up the building. Think about that for a
minute. We I mean, we talked about the magnitude of this explosion, but this explosion was strong enough to lift this
axle, this particular axle that is 250 lb approximately, and send it 500 ft away. And actually, I s I've seen a
picture of where they where they found this axle, and it looks to me, I can't say this with any degree of certainty
here, Captain, but it looks to me like it this axle could have potentially been thrown further. I think it I think it
was stopped by another vehicle. Like it flew and smashed into a vehicle and then
just stopped there and was found uh where it laid to rest there after smashing into this vehicle. But they get
a partial VIN, a partial VIN or vehicle identification number off of this axle. So the the information they pull off of
it is PVA26077. Now I'll speed things along here, but after doing some work very
quickly, they are able to figure out. So a Vin, I believe, is 17 characters, at least 16. And I'm going off of memory
here, but 16 or 17 characters. And here we only have eight. So we have some sorting out to do with this, but they're
able to determine that this partial VIN belonged to a large truck, basically a large box truck. And
eventually they whittle it down even more that it was a rider truck and that it was a rental truck, a 20footer, a VIN
number, the vehicle identification number, it's 17 characters. So it could be a number or a
letter. Yes. Each one of those characters could be a letter or number, but within that sequence of 17, the
character the characters mean a lot of they provide a lot of different information. Yes.
Right. Like if you have a V in the in spot number eight, uh, or if you have a letter in in spot number seven, if you
have a number in this other spot, and I'm going off of hypotheticals here, but but it does it breaks down a lot of
information. One, when was the vehicle made? Two, what kind of vehicle is it? Three, what weight categories does the
vehicle fall into? for where was the vehicle made and and it goes on and on and on. So each one of those characters
provides a a a wealth of information about that particular vehicle. So once you have that VIN, you can start sorting
a lot of that out. So these we they have everybody working on this. I mean, this
this was the largest investigation in the United States, uh, second only to when they flew the planes into the World
Trade Centers. They very quickly determine that it's a rental truck, a box truck. The authorities learned that
the truck had been rented out for just $200. They track down the the city and the location of where the person where
this rental truck was picked up, right? Because you go in, many of us have have moved before, had to move. It's the
biggest pain in the ass ever. You and when you're doing it yourself, you you have to go and rent one of these trucks.
You go to a location to rent the truck. You spend your what feels like an entire
weekend moving all your crap from location A to location B, if not longer. Yeah. and just just get a dumpster.
Throw throw like twothirds of it away. Become a minimalist. Yeah. So they here's what they sort out. The quick of
it is this. They track down this truck to where it was rented and it was rented from, I believe, a body shop at a
location in uh in Kansas. So it was rented for just $200 to a one Robert Clling. So now they go to where this
vehicle was rented from, and they want to interview the people that that own the shop, the people that work there to
try to figure out what information they can gather about the person who rented the vehicle. This is going to be the
biggest breadcrumb in your breadcrumb trail. After talking to the people that work there, they get a decent
description. And what they learn is that the vehicle was rented out to this Robert Clling, described as a tall white
male, maybe 5' 11ish, described as skinny and possibly wearing camouflage or wearing green. On
April 15th, the customer paid for the truck up front because that was part of the contract. You had to pay for it up
front. And on April 15th at 9:00 a.m. is when they worked out the arrangements of
the truck. The uh people at the body shop explained that there was another man that was
there as well, but they don't know his name because he didn't have to fill out any of the paperwork. But they were able
to provide a description of this man who is described as a white male between 5'7
and 5'8 in tall wearing a baseball cap. Now, these two persons, because law enforcement has no reason to believe
that that the one man used his real name. In fact, I think they did some uh a very quick background check to
determine that the address provided and the name provided doesn't match up. That
person doesn't seem to exist. So, now we have a description of John Doe number one and John Doe number two. These two,
they put together composite sketches of John Doe number one and John Doe number two. And these go out nationwide very,
very quickly. They also learned that it was on April 17th that the rental truck was actually picked up by the customer,
Robert Clling, who had given a date of birth as 41970. And of course, we know the
Oklahoma City bombing took place on 419195. The report is that the man is now solo. He nobody arrived with him to
pick up the truck when he retrieved it on the 17th, but there was somebody with him when he made arrangements for the
truck on the 15th. This is going to lead authorities to a location of Junction City, Kansas. So, we have the
description of these two guys. Remember what we said? Everybody was thinking immediately after the attack. Well, now
they know they're not looking for Middle Eastern terrorists. Yeah. They're not looking for a foreign
terrorist. They're looking for a domestic terrorist, which I don't have it in front of me, but they all the they
sent FBI profilers out there right away. And the FBI profile that that they came
up with suggested that it would be a domestic terrorist uh Caucasian male in his mid to late
20s. is is the very basics of that um profile profile probably working with somebody else. So they go to this
Junction City, Kansas because the part in part the profile and some activities going on in this area led them here and
also it's very close to where the rider truck was was rented from. And now they're going to hit the streets. It's
the old shoe leather ban. the old shoe leather portion of the investigation. They are going around with the the
composite sketches with a picture of the rider truck, which it's nice that they have the rider truck, right? Because
it's it's going to stand out. It's something distinctive. It's something that people may remember. So now they're
going around looking to talk to anybody who may have seen somebody that resembles either one of these dudes and
or saw them with or without the rider truck or maybe just saw the rider truck. We need information on the truck. We
need information on these dudes. Well, they get information that a guy matching the description of Robert Clling of the
man using the Robert Clling alias stayed at a place called the Dreamland Motel and had parked a yellow
rider truck there in their parking lot and rented room number 25. Now, the registration card at the Dreamland Motel
filled out by the customer was made out to a one Timothy McVey or a Tim McVey. He had also
registered his car. If you stay at a hotel, a lot of times they want to know what kind of vehicle you'll be leaving
in their parking lot. Yeah. Sometimes they even want the license plate number. He provided to them that his vehicle was
a Mercury with Arizona plates L2C 034. Armed with this information, they get into their their So, anytime
somebody's arrested, information is supposed to be put into national database, NCIC. They get on NCIC and guess what?
They find out that a guy with a very similar name was arrested just less than an hour
and a half after the explosion in Oklahoma City. The guy that was arrested was Timothy James McVey. Well, according to
the registration card at Dreamland Motel, they're looking for a Tim McVey. Got him. So, now we got Yes. Now
we are getting on the phone with Noble County Jail and hoping and praying they didn't let this this guy out. Yeah. This
homicidal maniac out and and they got lucky. So this investigation is really impressive when it when you review it
how quickly everything moved and how quickly they were able to really start to figure out who
was responsible. When it comes to McVey, we t we talked about briefly about how nobody really was able to with their own
eyeballs put him in Oklahoma City. But now we have information that is telling us that he likely is the guy that was
using the alias Robert Clling who rented the rider truck. And part of that too here,
Captain, that is really a very fascinating aspect to this, even though we can't put him there. If you were, if
one were to drive from the Alfred P. Mura building and go the speed limit to the location of where Timothy McVey was
later arrested for traffic infractions an hour and 18 minutes later, it would put you right at that spot.
That's not 100% confirmation of anything, but that's just another piece of the puzzle. Another another piece of
evidence that is suggestive that you are you've got the right guy. Now, I do want to back this up a little bit, our
story up a little bit here, Captain, because one thing that took place just days before the Oklahoma City bombing on
April 19th, 1995, let's go 4 days prior, all the way out in Arkansas, which isn't ter
terribly far from Oklahoma, but you have Richard Snell, who was being held at the Tucker
Maximum security unit until April 15th when he's transferred to the Green Mile, the execution site.
His death sentence is getting closer and closer by the minute. He's scheduled to be executed on
April 19th, 1995 at the Cumins unit in Lincoln County, Arkansas. This is the same
day that Timothy McVey carried out the Oklahoma City bombing at the building that Snell and
some other guys had once plotted to blow up themselves 12 years prior. Right now, on
this day, Snell watched TV and watched TV reports of the Oklahoma City bombing. Now, we're going to have a portion of
our audience that's too young to remember this, or maybe they weren't even alive when the bombing took place.
I remember seeing it on TV. I We were on spring break at the time. I was a kid. I
was out riding bikes, riding bicycles with with my friends, and we we went inside to like grab a snack or something
or steal something out of the fridge, and it's all over the TV that morning. You couldn't turn on a TV in the 48
states and it not be on. And so we do know for a fact that Richard Snell watched the bombing, watched the the
aftermath of the bombing. And there are a lot of thoughts and theories and speculation about how much did Snell
have involvement or did he have any prior knowledge of this attack that was so similar to something that he had plotted
to do himself? And as the story goes, he had told some of the guards in advance that something that there was
going to be some some incredible event that would take place on the day of his execution. We know what kind of
horrible [ __ ] smart alec kind of dude Richard Snell is. He could have simply been being vague and talking
about his own execution, right? something incredibly important is going to happen on the day that that I'm
executed, right? But but it doesn't seem that way. It seems to No, it's too much
of a coincidence. Well, and there are varying reports about this. So, there are some reports regarding his reaction
to what he was seeing on TV. There are some reports that say that Richard Snell was in celebration mode, that he was
smiling and chuckling and and seemed to be getting some kind of enjoyment and satisfaction out of what he was seeing
on TV. There was other reports that are the complete opposite that that he seemed to be uh
upset uh or maybe even angered at what he was seeing. Now, what we do know is that he was executed on that day. And
when asked to if he had any last words, he chose to address the governor of Arkansas, who at that time was Jim Guy
Tucker. And his last words, his final words were quote, "Well, I had a lot to say, but you have me at an
inconvenience. My mind is blurred, but I'm going to say a couple of words. Governor
Tucker, look over your shoulder. Justice is coming. I wouldn't trade places with
you or any of your cronies. Hell has victories. I am at peace. All right, Captain. All of this is going to be
moving incredibly at lightning speed, right? Wararf, take us to warp speed. But what we have here is the address
that we now know that Tim McVey is a real name, right? They took it off of the Dreamland Motel registration card,
right? Well, there's an address that's listed as well. That address that they they tracked down doesn't belong to
McVey, per se. It belongs to Terry Nichols and Nichols brother when when McVey had lived with them.
Right? So if you're in law enforcement, you're like, we have the real name of the person. This might be a real address
that he lived at and maybe these people are connected on to this attack on some level. I mean, we do have eyewitnesses
that say we saw more than one person. Well, and on top of that, what we have here is again because the investigation
is moving so fast, so quickly, and they're able to call, right, other other branches of of the FBI, they're able to
get local law enforcement involved near and far. And so, the way that I recall this playing out is that they actually
served a search warrant at McVeyy's father's house where he had grew up. They serve that one
first, but then they it becomes known that they are looking for this Terry Nichols or looking for him and his
brother. And once word of that gets out, much to everyone's surprise, Terry Nichols turns himself in. And now he's
being interrogated by law enforcement and they execute a search warrant at Terry Nichols's place. right between it.
It takes a while to break down Terry Nicholls, but they eventually break him down and he starts telling them part of
the plot, part of his involvement, what McVey was up to. And then they find a whole bunch of physical
evidence where Terry Nichols is living. They find they find items that were the same as items used to construct the
bomb. They find written plans. They find a map that has marked on it the Alfred P. Mura building. Oh,
also marked on that map is where the getaway vehicle was parked or to be parked. Right. And so they find a lot of
physical evidence. They they even found some of McVeyy's blood, like two or three drops of blood that eventually
they determined belonged to McVey. So they have all these they have all these ties every a bunch of things tying these
two together and now you have Nicholls who is telling them what happened and and basically what he says here captain
is that he was there in Oklahoma. He he was there in Kansas with McVey. He was there with McVey when they went to go
rent the truck. He helped him construct the bomb in the back of the truck. He helped him outfit the the truck, but he
had left to return to his family instead of riding shotgun to deliver the mobile
bomb on that fateful day. They're going to figure out the connection to Michael and Lorie Forier,
who McVey had stayed with out in Arizona. In fact, Lori is one of the people that testifies against McVey at
his trial. Michael testifies as well, but Michael works out a deal with the authorities to make sure that his wife
gets immunity. And in the end, we can talk about how far and wide did this plot and plan go, who all was involved.
Well, we know that three people were involved and four people had knowledge of it. Michael and his wife, their most
of their involvement was having knowledge of it. Now, what we we do learn too, remember the Robert
Clling alias that Timothy McVey used to rent the truck. Well, that fake identification was provided to him by
Lori. So she made that identification for him to use so that he could rent the truck. But as we now know, she got
immunity because her husband worked out that deal and was willing to testify against his friend Tim McVey at his
federal trial. Timothy McVey was not charged with 168 deaths. He was not charged with a with a number
that equaled the death toll for Oklahoma City. He was charged with eight murders. And that was the that was
eight murders of federal employees, federal law enforcement officers that the US government could
take him to court for and charge him with their murders with capital murder because they they're at work. They're
essentially in the line of duty or performing their job duties and job task when they were murdered by this guy who
drove the bomb in there. I I do think that to the best that they could, I do think that Timothy McVey had good
representation and they put on a good case. They put on a a good presence in the courtroom trying
to provide an argument that there the accused was innocent. There was just too much evidence against this guy. And
behind the scenes, McVey seemed to want to be known as the Oklahoma City bomb bomber. He wanted to be known and he he
laid everything out for his attorneys. And unfortunately for the attorneys, and fortunately for the rest of us, that
information was put on paper and it it made its way somehow to the media prior to his
trial. To to the extent of the attorneys had to go on camera and say, "No, this is a these are these documents are fake.
They're a hoax." And in reality, it was a confession almost of uh to to his involvement. It it was
documentation that pretty much Captain started with the birth of Tim McVey and ended with him being arrested at 10:20
a.m. on the morning of the bombing. But it makes you wonder because the the real smoking gun of all
this is the truck rental. And you think if maybe I don't know if it was just laziness or or maybe he wanted some
link back to him, but you'd think that they could have come up with a better plan that we
wouldn't have to leave any of our information behind to rent this vehicle. Yeah, that's a big that's a part of it
that I had tried to to make heads and tails of is that one I have to believe that he didn't think that any portion of
the truck would survive. But even if you were to think that far ahead, wouldn't you also be thinking
that well rental trucks, they have to come back, right? They they have to be returned and this one is not going to be
returned. And they might be able to connect this truck not being returned to the bombing. And we do know that they
did capture a security camera in a nearby business at a convenience store did capture an image of that rider
truck. And then based off of eyewitnesses that would have been near the federal building at the time of the
explosion or shortly before, they may have all reported seeing this again very distinctive truck. I think that I think
that all roads would have led to McVey no matter what. It's just depending on if it would have been a crosswalk or or
a freeway, right? the amount of speed that they would be able to get and connect all of these items to the actual
suspect. And I don't I'm not convinced that McVey his motive is unclear, right? As as much as it's been discussed that
it that it his motive and even openly by him, in fact, he he didn't really push his appeals too far. He wanted to die.
He wanted to be executed even though he didn't seem to show any remorse at least
publicly for killing 168 people. He was executed 2001. He wasn't he wasn't sentenced until
1997. So this all moved very quickly. And one thing that I found to be very strange and almost haunting in a weird
way, and I'm not trying to get all mystical and tin hat. Put on your tin hat, please. Well, not no I'm not even
not even conspiracy because this wouldn't be conspiracy conspiratorial at all. But I'm not trying to get I'm
talking about like theology, man. Like I'm not trying to get like too crazy about this, but it
is almost a fact. Jesus was approximately 33 years old when he was crucified and killed. David Caresh was
33 years old when he died at Waco, Texas. Mhm. Timothy McVey was 33 years old when he was executed by the federal
government for being the man that killed all of those people at the Oklahoma City
building. Mhm. It's just it's all very weird, strange stuff. And and and to take it further now, let All right,
let's do get a little tin hat here. I keep mine with me in the garage. I got the beer in the right hand. tin hat sits
on the desk to my left. So, I always wear one on my penis just in case. Well, it's good to be have
be protected to be safe. It's better to be safe than But what I find fascinating and
terrifying is to me Timothy McVey had no direction. I don't think this is a plan
that he came up with. And so this plan to me goes all the way back to Schnel. And how did his plan get from him and
his people to Timothy McVey? Well, see, and that's interesting because that would have been something that was
something that was known within those communities. Hell, it was it was public knowledge because Snell was charged. him
and those other guys were charged with conspiracy to overthrow the government, but they they weren't able to get a
conviction on it in court. So, it was general public knowledge if if one were to go looking for it, even though it was
many years ahead of time. I guess McVeyy's biggest connection to the state of Arkansas where Snell was
executed, he was indicted, he was convicted, and we do know that he was charged with the conspiracy. We do know
McVey does have a connection to Arkansas because that's where they robbed that Robert
Moore of thousands of dollars worth of valuables that they were intended to use to fund the bombing. But let's circle
back to the the four tiers when he his time there when he lived with them in Arizona. You know, they're having their
fun with the drugs and McVeyy's got more going on than just drugs, right? He he does go and live on his own, but stays
he's practically like a neighbor of theirs for a while. He at during this time he doesn't have a home phone. And
so he would regularly use their phone. He would go over to Mike and Lory's house and use their phone. And this this
is a big part of the tin hat stuff. So if you want to get real conspiracy, real conspiratorial here,
you can't I think I think that I think there's enough meat on the bone to to to make you wonder.
So she says she tells authorities this. This is a matter of public record. This is
considered, I think, a fact in the courts. She says, "Well, I didn't mind him coming over all the time to use our
phone, even though he was making longd distanceance calls because he was using a a a phone card, a calling card."
Remember those those prepaid cards that you could get? I don't even know if they
still exist. Yeah. But you'd get these prepaid cards, load them up with money, and then you could call whoever, and
then they just take the funds off of that card, out of that account. It's essentially setting up
account and they would take the funds out of there to pay for the long-distance calls. Well, armed with
this information, look, the police and the federal government did not stop once they had Timothy McVey, once they had
Terry Nichols, once they had Michael Forier. They didn't stop once they had those guys. They believed that the plot
was much bigger and and spread far and wide that either people had involvement because having just having knowledge of
this is a crime. Having prior Yes. So they were looking for everybody that could be involved. Meanwhile, you
basically have Timothy McVey that's saying, "I'm I was kind of a lone wolf on this one. This one was me. I was, you
know, this was what I was trying to do." Uh but yet we know Terry, we know that Nichols was involved. We know that a lot
of people believe, and I believe the federal government believes this as well, that Nicholls brother probably had
prior knowledge of what was going on, but they weren't able to prove it. But now using that calling card account,
they were able to determine that Timothy McVey made phone calls to Elum City as as close to 2 weeks before Oklahoma City
bombing. So he made phone calls to Elom City. He made phone calls to the author of The Turner Diaries. What the hell was
that book about? Blowing up a federal building and inciting overthrowing the government and inciting a race war. Mhm.
Oh, by the way, they find a cocktail waitress working at a Tulsa, Oklahoma strip club who tells authorities
that on at least one occasion, Timothy McVey was in the establishment and telling her and anybody willing to
listen that pretty soon he was going to be famous. Now, the versions of that story change a little bit depending on
where you find the information. And there are some some that state that he said the name of the building or said
the date. I don't know how much I believe that. But I do believe that he was there saying that he was going to be
famous or everybody was going to know his name one day. Then we have this other very strange situation that is
difficult to know what level of truth there is to these claims. But we have Chvy Kho, who some of you may recall we
mentioned his name in our first Hate Made in America episode because he was an individual that lived at Ilum City
for a while. He was also an individual that was involved in creating one of these Aryan nation
groups. And he wanted to use this group and build an army of people to rob and commit violent
crimes. And he did. He un unfortunately he was successful in that. He was the um
part of the Aryan People's Republic militia. And as we said in our first episode of Hate Made in America, this
guy went on to kill. He was convicted of at least three homicides, gotten several
shootouts with police and state troopers. And oh by the way, when he was growing up in Washington State, he and
Israel Keys happened to be neighbors, which is a very strange coincidence. But after this guy is eventually locked
up and after Oklahoma City, so he lived in the state of Washington. And there is
thought that he may have had prior knowledge of the Oklahoma City bombing in April 19th of 1995. And where that
stems from is it's not a terrible leap to to suggest that maybe McVey and he and Kho knew one another. But what we
have is he he actually lived at this motel called the Shadow Motel which was located in Spokane, Washington. And the
manager of the Shadow Motel in Spokane has openly publicly made these statements and claims to have seen
Timothy McVey with Chevy Kho at that motel four to 6 months prior to the bombing. This same individual, the
manager, also claims that on the morning of the bombing, Chevy appeared at the motel office asking if the manager would
turn the TV to CNN and says that Chevy Kho became a static when the news of the bombing appeared. By an unspeakable act,
hate the apocalypse would occur soon. More white supremacist groups, more anti-government groups. David Caresh.
Ruby Ridge siege. Timothy McVey. More than 80 people dead. Bombed a federal building in Oklahoma
City. Eight by an unspeakable act. There is so little hope left. [Music] Hope. Now's the time for a great deal on
a new Honda. It's time to drive smarter with high-tech features and excellent reliability. Check out the Honda Civic,
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Hate American Made ////// Oklahoma City Bombing

Part 6 of 6

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

On the morning of Wednesday, April 19th, 1995 an ex-army soldier turned homegrown terrorist Timothy James McVeigh blew up the Alfred P. Murrah building in downtown Oklahoma City. He had conspired with others to carryout this horrific act against his fellow Americans. April 19th, is also Patriot’s Day. In 1995 it was the sad two year anniversary of the conclusion of the Waco Siege resulting in the deaths of many American citizens. This too, would be that day that the state of Arkansas executed Richard Snell. Snell was convicted of hate crimes, murder, and a man who once conspired to blow up the Alfred P. Murray building.

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Brief Summary

The episode covers the Oklahoma City bombing, McVeigh's actions, and the investigation that followed.

Key points

Chaos After the Explosion. Survivors describe the confusion and panic following the bombing.
The Oklahoma City Bombing. Timothy McVey orchestrated the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in U.S. history.
McVey's Arrest. Timothy McVey is arrested shortly after the bombing for a minor traffic violation.
Timothy McVey's Arrest. Timothy McVey is arrested for traffic violations, unaware of his connection to a bombing.
The Investigation Unfolds. Investigators discover a large axle linked to the bombing, leading to a breakthrough.
Richard Snell's Execution. On the day of his execution, Richard Snell watches the Oklahoma City bombing on TV.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Can you imagine the amount of chaos?

6:22WatchApr 16, 2025

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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