Flora Fire ////// 538 | Forensic Files

thank you [Music] [Music] thank you foreign garage wherever you are whatever you're
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that's enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab
a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] four young sisters who all died on a
fire at their family home [Applause] foreign still unclear how the fire started investigators were looking at the first
floor electrical system the girl's mother injured along with two police officers who tried to save the
sister's lives [Music] such an early age such a heavy loss [Music] she was a single mom working very hard
and like I said her babies were her angels I can't imagine what she's going through
I [Music] foreign [Music] ly on November 23 2016 the Carroll County Comet ran the
following Report with the headline Four Sisters perish and floor of Fire the article read in part
an early morning fire Monday November 21st 2016 in Florida claimed the lives of Four Sisters ages 11 9 7 and 5 and
sent their mother and two police officers to the hospital the victim's names have not been
released 9-1-1 was called at 3 35 a.m to a two-unit apartment building located at
103 East Columbia Street when emergency Personnel arrived Flames were visible according to Florida Town
Marshal Paul Redmond the victim's families resided on the main level which also includes an
upstairs bedroom where the girls slept officers and volunteer firefighters removed the girls who were not breathing
from the residents Redmond said they worked hard to resuscitate them but could not
the victim's mother was airlifted to an Indianapolis hospital for treatment a County Deputy was flown to a Fort Wayne
hospital for treatment of smoke inhalation and burns to his hands and face a floor police officer was
transported to a Lafayette hospital for treatment of smoke inhalation the couple occupying the upstairs
apartment escaped unharmed fire units from Delphi Camden Burlington and Cutler also responded according to
Redmond the fire was knocked down quickly also helping at the scene where the Carroll County Sheriff's Department
Indiana State Police and other police units the Indiana Department of Homeland Security and State Fire Marshal along
with local authorities are conducting an investigation as to the cause of the fire
Redmond said the victims were students at Carroll Elementary School Carol's counselors as well as others from nearby
School corporations and local Ministry were available at the school to help students and staff cope with the tragedy
the comment will run dozens of articles about the fire and fatalities for the weeks and months to come we have covered
several house fires and arson stories on True Crime garage and unfortunately there were fatalities in those fires as
well but stop and really think about it for a while there are a few things more terrifying than a house fire
imagine waking in the night the house still dark the smell of smoke is strong you jump out of your bed with one
thought my children you rush from the room only to be confronted with a wall of black smoke so
thick your eyes water your throat burns and your lungs seize up the heat searing
your skin to the point where you are sure that you are on fire screaming is impossible as you are
overtaken by coughing and you stagger out the front door choking and gasping for air
and your children are still inside this is what happened in the middle of the night on November 21st 2016 in
Florida Indiana later we learn that this deadly house fire was no accident this is true crime garage and this is
the floor Fire case foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] in November of 2016 little girls keone
Kiara Kiana and Carol lived with their mother Galen Rose in a rented apartment inside a duplex in the Tiny Town of
Flora Indiana the house was situated on a corner right next to downtown Florida this is a town of just one square mile
occupied by 2 000 residents the small town of Flora is located in Carroll County Indiana the house Galen and her
girls lived in located at 103 East Columbia Street was divided into two separate Apartments the family of five
our family that we're discussing lived in one half and other tenants a mom and her two kids occupied the other half of
this duplex Galen and her kids slept on two different floors of the home the girl slept in bedrooms upstairs and
Galen occupied a room on the main level the force sisters were normal little girls who loved to play outside and were
big time into cheerleading and that is an understatement I cannot emphasize that enough big time into cheerleading
they were on various competitive cheering teams and they ranged in age from 5 to 11. so preschool age up to the
sixth grade neighbors would later tell the media that the kids were always playing outside they were very nice and
polite children they said the mom was friendly and would say hello the girls love to play with other neighborhood
kids dogs and we're always smiling and dancing one Florida resident said they were so joyous they were very happy
girls I've never seen them not smiling always on the front porch waving at everybody that went by they didn't know
a stranger well let's get to the details of this tragic event okay Captain so on
the weekend of November 18th through the 20th 2016 the girls had a cheer competition on that Saturday afternoon
on Sunday Kiana who was big into basketball she had a game so the five members of this family went to the
grocery store and went home to eat dinner after this basketball game and after dinner it would be bedtime for the
girls on Sunday night this is the 20th the girls all went to bed around 10 p.m upstairs in their room Galen slept alone
downstairs so she says that she went to bed around the same time as well but around 3 30 a.m Galen wakes up here's
what happened per Fox 59 News it says everyone was asleep the girls were upstairs and Galen was in her bedroom on
the main floor until she said intense smoke woke her up the whole entire house was full of smoke I couldn't really see
gay Alan said I pretty much tried to save my babies by running up the steps I got halfway I couldn't breathe and I
just ran out of the house to try to help now Galen stood in the front yard in her
nightgown screaming but other screams could be heard as well coming from inside the house a neighbor one of many
awakened by the sounds of the distraught mother called 9-1-1 the first to respond
was Carroll County Sheriff's deputy Drew Yoder he rushed into the house when Galen screamed at him that her children
were still inside he was quickly forced to retreat from the burning structure second to respond was Flora police
officer Josh dissinger the two officers attempted to enter the home several more
times but they had to pull back each time on another attempt dislinger had to pull Yoder out of the home because the
smoke was so dense the Flames so hot later Yoder said to the Journal and Courier the third time is when things
went bad all I remember is waking up in the ambulance with this singer standing over me telling me that everything was
going to be okay firefighters were able to be on the scene very quickly by the time they arrive we have smoke and
Flames that are billowing from the house Galen Rose stood on the front lawn screaming hysterically the two law
enforcement officers were down by this point injured by their repeated attempts into the home right so shortly after 3
30 a.m We have an EMT who lived next door to the family her name is Angela Francis she was awakened by the
screaming she ran out to help and was immediately you know thrown into the situation where she's helping and
assisting anyone that she can including the ambulances that are now arriving on the scene we also have neighbor Chasity
Fox her and her husband also went outside of their home that night and watched horrified as as sadly the First
Responders failed to save the children per Fox 59 Galen Rose recalled the ambulance man
told me that my babies was no longer here and after that moment I don't remember anything
Galen was sedated and airlifted from the scene to a hospital in Indianapolis her
condition was listed as critical but stable she was in the hospital for nearly a week the floor of firefighters
were eventually able to put out this fire one by one EMTs brought out four little bodies on stretchers Deputy Yoder
suffered Burns to his hands and face and smoke inhalation he was airlifted to a burn unit in Fort
Wayne where he stayed for several days he wrote a handwritten note to officer disinger that read quote you saved my
life Josh he later says he has no recollection of writing this note dissinger was treated
at the Lafayette hospital he too had smoke inhalation but he was released Monday night the two men had done
everything in their power to try to save all four girls Unfortunately they just failed that the smoke was too bad the
fire was too big I just think I have little fires at my house you know outside you know little bonfires
you're moving around those firewoods and boom you get hit with some smoke and you
start coughing and choking immediately and that's of a little fire and you're surrounded by fresh air can you imagine
how you'd react or how the body would react when you're hit with smoke and when you're gasping for air all your
body is getting is more smoke the residents of the other half of the home remember we have a woman with her two
children that live there she was able to escape that night without any injury at all luckily her
children were not home with her that night Carroll County coroner JD Cree announced that all four girls had died
of asphyxiation due to smoke inhalation manner of death was listed as accidental
this was obviously devastating to the family but also all the firefighters that were involved in trying to save
these girls lives and devastated the whole community so they held the funeral at the local high school this is one of
those horrible situations that we hear about Captain where the First Responders are now traumatized for months and even
years to come the funeral itself must be unbearable we're talking about four children here the Carroll Elementary
School provided grief counselors for the students who all knew the girls so students created banners and cards and
posted them all along the walls of the school and a candlelight vigil was held on Tuesday evening of that week
afterward people delivered meals to Galen Rose and her family and fundraisers and sales from a cookbook
raised money for her to help try in some way to rebuild her life Deputy Yoder who
we have already talked about who was on the scene and tried several times to get
back in the house he was obviously devastated by the incident as was everyone he when he learned that the
girls had not been saved he was crushed he says you know I know these girls I drove through Flora all the time for
work and I would see them he says quote those girls were always outside on a nice day dancing around and
the greatest thing is they would all stop smile and wave as you pass by he had often spoken with Galen who was a
cashier at a gas station in town so he knew her as well this is one of those situations it's a small town not a lot
of people and he shows up and he's responding trying to save people that he knows people that he has seen in his
everyday life well First Responders get to know gas station attendance a lot because they stop in and get coffee at
all hours of the night and in a small town if you're a cashier anywhere you really get to know a lot of people in
the community these four girls were absolutely beautiful girls absolutely beautiful and
Captain you know 20 years ago I worked at a gas station and I've always recommended here if you work at a gas
station offer free coffee to all the officers to First Responders get those people in your stores and take care of
them on that Monday captain this was like 3 30 in the morning on that Monday so now we have all this tragedy that
happens in the middle of the night and we have fire investigators who are going to have to begin the process of
sifting through the debris rubble and Ash to try to determine the point of origin because we have four fatalities
here we have an investigation that has to happen exactly so we have assistant chief of the Burlington Fire Department
Derek Jackson has said it's just a fire that happened at night people were sleeping and didn't wake up in time
right but it was not really that simple as we know the Indiana State Police they
were the official lead investigative Agency on the case the actual on the scene fire investigation would require
experts the fire would be investigated by the Indiana State Fire Marshal's office which is part of the Indiana
Department of Homeland Security and this would be well a rather extensive and ongoing
investigation and the first few days fire investigator Dennis Randall would only say that the fire was categorized
as undetermined pending review of the structure by an electrical engineer most house fires and even business fires
are electrical at the point of origin right and so I'm assuming that that's what they were
thinking they could be looking at here in this particular fire and it's also older building that's correct throughout
the years the electric codes change and part of the house possibly wasn't up to code and so after a few days of
Investigation they were not really sure what caused the fire they were still listing the official ruling as
undetermined even at that time they were able to determine that the fire had started in the kitchen possibly
behind the refrigerator and there are other reports out there that say that the fire started at the back of the
house on the ground floor I want to be clear about something here it's not been we're going to go through
this along our timeline here and even in these early stages of their investigation the first couple days in
we're getting conflicting reports about the origin of the fire where it started they've not officially released to this
day where that fire started so when you hear us reading off different points of where the fire could have started right
just know that nothing is absolutely official on those statements these are from reports that have come out since
the investigation has been going on well a lot of people think that it's possibly
it was started behind the oven as well you you hear that on several reports the sad fact is they're renting this house
this is a mother a single mother of four trying to put her kids in the best situation that she can they're renting a
house without smoke detectors yeah the the official statements that I have or at least the reported statements that
were coming out early on was that no foul play was suspected that a canine Officer on the scene had found no
presence of accelerants and further investigation have found that a smoke detector at the top of the
stairs on the second floor had no batteries in it and it was melted from the heat of the fire and there is a a
portion of this statement here captain that says there were no working smoke detectors in the part of the house where
the family lived right by early December the Federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms had officially joined the
fire investigation it's not clear whether their assistance was requested or if they decided to jump in to this
investigation the case went quiet shortly after that as the investigators did their thing
and that is the end of any normalcy in this tragic case from here on out it goes kind of Haywire in my opinion a
little wonky donkey two months after the fire on January 28th there was big news
so remember we've been told already by this point in our timeline that there was no reason to suspect Foul Play right
and that there were no detected accelerants by the canine officers that the girl's deaths were still listed as
accidental at this point and so on but now as of that January 28 2017 a press release from the State Fire
Marshal's Office stated that the fire was the result of arson again we have fire investigator Dennis Randall he said
in a statement released on that Saturday quote the November 21st 2016 Flora Indiana fire has been ruled incendiary
at this time there are no suspects investigators determined the fire to be incendiary after accelerants were found
in several locations of the structure end quote so as you can imagine Captain this is huge news accelerants are found
in several locations based off of this statement yeah and this is several locations inside the house occupied by
Galen and the girls so the fire is no accident or the result of faulty wiring or even electrical
short this we're now being told is a fire that was deliberately set for young sisters who all died on a fire
at their family home [Applause] [Music] unclear how the fire started investigators are looking at the first
floor electrical system the girl's mother injured along with two police officers who tried to save the
sister's lives foreign such a heavy loss I miss them [Music] she was the same Mom working very hard
and like I said her babies were her angels [Music] I can't imagine what she's going through
[Music] foreign we're back and we just want to take a quick minute to wish all of you guys and
your family a happy turkey day a happy and safe Thanksgiving to everybody out there tall cans in the air right Cheers
Cheers now for anyone who's paying attention to our cases that we cover here in the garage and the dates and
locations that we have discussed so far you may realize something pretty significant Flora that little town abuts
another small town in Indiana that was rocked by a crime in which two girls were murdered Abby Williams and Libby
German were murdered on the monan High Bridge Trail in Delphi Indiana on February 13
2017. this was literally just three months after the floor of Fire so now we have six young girls
who have all died under suspicious circumstances in just a period of three months and about a distance of eight
miles away all in Carroll County Indiana Again these budding counties they share Community they share
community events but they also share family members so you have one County re grieving and now you have another one
grieving as well it's it's a very tragic time for that region and then you have the effect that this was going to take
some of the resources away from the floor of fire investigation that being the Delphi investigation so for one
thing as we know newer cases always get the most attention from law enforcement but some people have wondered whether
this was a race related issue and if the four daughters that were killed in the Floor of fire were white some have said
that the investigators would have continued their investigation with more Vigor yeah I don't know how much Vigor
it had but the investigation definitely continued so the Four Sisters case got no televised press conferences no
national news exposure no public outcries that the culprit would be brought to Justice in fact Robert Ives
the Carroll County prosecutor at the time somebody who we've quoted here before when we've talked about the
Delphi case right says he wasn't even notified that arson was suspected six months after the fire he told Fox 59
Labs tests have been done lab results have come back but I haven't received anything like a final police report not
one suspect had been brought to his attention he said and he goes on to say quote the floor of fire has had as much
investigation put on it as many people involved as much serious consideration as probably any other case I've ever
been involved in except for the Delphi murder obviously it's going to be investigated by law enforcement but this
investigation is going to be trumped because it's going to be investigated by the firefighters as well but I think one
of the reasons why it didn't get as much coverage initially is because the reports was
this is an accident okay if it's an accident it's a tragic event we're going to talk about it and and now we're gonna
have these funerals the community is going to come together and now let's start working to move past this if it
came out the night of the fires or the next day that no we believe this is a hundred percent
arson then you're looking at a murder investigation right away and I think that's one of the reasons that didn't
get the coverage that it deserved yes this is a horrible horrible situation nobody's denying that neither nobody
should even be comparing which situations more tragic they're equally tragic and I think you're spot on here Captain
a part of the reason why we have less information or at least less news coverage and National outcry for justice
here is the fact that you just said it was originally ruled or thought to be either undetermined or accidental
and so that takes a little bit away from that sentiment from everybody to begin with but the other thing too I don't
know that it's really truly fair to kind of compare the investigations or the efforts put forward on
these two cases it doesn't feel to me like we're comparing Apples to Apples it's a little more apples to oranges
here because very few we've been doing this a very long time I have seen very few cases that have received as much
attention as the Delphi murder cases yeah well look it it'd be like every child that is murdered saying it's not
fair that JonBenet Ramsey's case got covered more than theirs that's a good example and then on top of that in the
True Crime podcast Community a lot of the creators we know are more likely to cover unsolved murder case than
unsolved arson case they're just not covered as much in the True Crime world yes and I feel like with the Delphi case
really the there's only a handful of cases that I think have received as much or more publicity
than the Delphi case and I mean we're talking JonBenet the O.J Simpson case there's very few out there now what I do
believe here in this case for the floor Fire case is I would have liked to seen more eyes and ear balls on this from the
get-go because I do think that there's somebody out there that might know something but
the investigation itself has been a little weird and that's why I said earlier that that's going to be the last
of the normalcy in this case in in this investigation yeah because we what we have here is first off arson is very
difficult to determine and investigate right now the other problematic thing for the
investigation itself is Most states and cities do not have a high clearance rate
when it comes to arsons to clearing arson cases meaning most of the time they don't make an
arrest or get a conviction in the arson case like you said it's a tough investigation because
smoke destroys evidence fire destroys evidence similar to a crime happening and the victim being placed into water
that water is going to destroy so much evidence and before we move on too far into the investigation Camp then I want
to make sure that I point something out too that really kind of ticked me off as
I was going through my research and looking into this horrible Fire case here at some point when there was no news of
a good suspect or finger-pointing to people outside of the home at some point some members of the public started
pointing their finger at Galen Rose the mother of the three girls and I found that incredibly
I think disgusting is the best word I understand that their suspicion and that when there has been no answers and
you cannot find the culprit of something so horrific as this that you want to find somebody to blame
that you want to point the finger and say I think that's why I think that's the person that did it and that's why we
don't have the answers I get that end of it but everything that I can see she does not make a good suspect other than
the fact that we know she was in the home that night I see a woman here that has been destroyed absolutely destroyed
you think that Community was destroyed by this event her life has been it's been hell I'm sure every day for her has
been hell and now we're coming up on five years since that horrible night well my issue is that she's a she's a
victim in this tragic event law enforcement know that firefighters and their investigators know that to me
you have a duty to investigate this hard and fast and if you can rule her out initially again you didn't say it was
arson right away so it gets less coverage with less coverage less people talking about it less likely you're
going to have somebody talking and and have somebody confessing to a friend or something of of that nature but also
would you know that she was home rule her in or out very quickly and that's law enforcement you know
three days into their investigation if they know that she is not a suspect you come out and you stand hard that she is
not a suspect and if you do that then you stop the rumor meals and you stop having people online speculate and throw
blame on this lady that is already suffering so I said that the investigation itself was a little weird
and I think everybody will agree with me because what we have here is remember the press release that we just went
through where they are now changing the undetermined status to arson and so essentially if it is arson these four
girls were murdered now the problem with that statement with that press release was
we said Indiana State Police is the lead on this case they were unaware that that
press release was going to be issued this was not agreed upon by all of the investigating agencies that hey we're
ready to announce the public that we've made a determination of arson here in this case and then in June of 2017 we
have arson investigator Dennis Randall who abruptly resigned from his position he was the one that released that press
release saying that the fire was deemed arson after accelerants were found in several locations in the house now he is
on record saying time and time again that this disagreement between the agencies had nothing to do with him
resigning you know some people work at a job for a very long time or have a career we all retire at some point but
one thing that we should note here is some of this disagreement came about because there was a senior fire
investigator from Michigan working for an insurance company on the Fire case he did not agree with Randall's assessment
of the accelerants or how the investigation was being conducted so in February of that year he wrote a
critical email to the Indiana Department of Homeland Security director and the Indiana State Fire Marshal stating the
following the January 28 2017 press release by the State Fire Marshal about the conclusions of their investigation
are not correct and completely based on speculation and not evidence also the press release statement about
accelerants being discovered in several locations is absolutely not based on any
evidence discovered at the scene during the investigation and the investigator Dennis Randall was not performing a
proper origin and cause investigation based on the current procedures of the NFPA 921 2016 Edition this report filed
and press release given by Dennis Randall is truly unfortunate and potentially a grave in Justice for the
four little girls that perished in the fire well Colonel what's your opinions on this I think what we have here
Captain is a situation where we might have too many cooks in the kitchen we have about seven agencies involved in
this investigation and it seems to me like communication wasn't great between these different agencies
and I think at points in the investigation some of their findings seem to be contradicting themselves
along the way or other agencies findings right so I think everything was set up with good
intentions of working this thing together in the beginning but again you have about seven agencies that are
involved in this investigation I kind of feel like it was going to go wrong at some point given the number of
people involved we have seen in many arts and investigation where one expert states that this is a hundred percent
definitive that it's arson and then years later they come back and say no this is clearly accidental this was
faulty wiring it becomes very convoluted and very hard to determine because we're
not experts ourselves in this field no and we've seen that expert opinion change throughout the years this is a
science that they're still working on that they're still working to perfect like everything else and so where we
have cases that we've looked at that are 20 30 years old we look at them now in hindsight and go I don't know if they
got it right based off of the way that we see the science today right and we could break down each point of this
investigation but it would take us hours upon hours there's a lot of minutia but
maybe Colonel you can just break down the major points of this well sadly captain in its simplest form what we are
being told by the experts the ones leading this investigation members of that seven agency team is at first it
wasn't Foul Play undetermined next it was Foul Play accelerants were found in multiple locations inside the home then
uh hold up it might not be Foul Play We are still investigating to going back to eventually it was in
fact Foul Play It Was arson but accelerants were only found in one spot in one location and we're not being told
exactly what that location was yeah and when you have the community crying out for hey if this is arson where are the
suspects tell us who these guys are is there somebody that we should be afraid of in our community
but this investigation can't get on the same track on if it was an accident or arson to begin with well in
2017 in design in December they did a peer review which I always like when these agencies do a peer review so the
Indiana State Police requested that the Indianapolis Fire Department send in experts to investigate the evidence that
was collected at the Flora fire and we have on record Sergeant Kim Riley anyone familiar with the Delphi case will know
Kim Riley he says quote it's a good practice to have fresh eyes review an investigation and since this case is
believed to be arson the Indianapolis Fire Department was asked to conduct the peer review by the end of January of
2018 the report from the Indianapolis investigators was in they confirmed that the fire was intentionally set however
accelerants were found in only one location in the home not several in the wake of this report the Indiana State
Police announced that the criminal investigation would continue so as things started to look promising when we
have Doug Carter again people familiar with the Delphi case know Doug Carter he's the Indiana State Police spokesman
he spoke with local news stations at this time and he said over time people were starting to talk to us about that
place about that home about that area and around the home what might have been some of the activities in and around
that residence in the days weeks and months leading up to the fire he said police were not yet in a place where
they could make an arrest but quote I believe that we will and quote since that finding by seasoned arson
investigators over three years have passed with no arrest no publicly named suspects and really no new information
so here we sit five years after the fire and all we figured out by this point is
that it was intentionally set it is an arson fire there was four fatalities and accelerants were found in one
location regarding this fire but we're not getting a lot of information from investigators so maybe we can get some
information from the lawsuits in this case yes captain in May of 2018 Galen Rose's attorney filed a federal
lawsuit claiming that her landlords this is birch tree Holdings were negligent because there were no working smoke
detectors in the part of the house occupied by her and her children they also made a product liability claim
against Sears and Whirlpool the documents filed claimed that an oven and range manufactured by whirlpool and sold
by Sears was the cause of the fire because it was defective fire investigators had removed the range for
testing this part of the lawsuit however was dropped in 2020 this after extensive testing revealed
that the stove was not defective Galen also alleges in her complaint that the house also had a back door that had no
functioning lock and some outlets in the kitchen that did not work repairs to the
outlets took place just a couple of weeks before the fire obviously arson mitigates the fault on the part of the
landlord but the reality is the non-working smoke detectors present a huge huge problem for the landlords yeah
I feel like they're still that's still neglect and again you have a situation you have a single mother raising four
children she's in a situation where again trying to provide the best home environment for
our kids this might just be what she can afford and then sometimes you don't feel
like you have a leg to stand on to go well the house doesn't have this and the house doesn't have that and you need to
make these changes because you're afraid well if they evict you for whatever reason that you might
not be able to find a better situation yeah and we have the mother and family who have stated over and over again that
they kind of feel like this case isn't being worked as hard as it possibly could be that maybe it's
been shoved under the rug since so much time has gone by we do have the Indiana State Police that have pushed back on
that idea a little bit they have outwardly said you know we don't have any suspects in this case or we've not
named a suspect in this case they've said we have Persons of Interest we have people that we would like to talk to
people that we'd like to track down and speak with that we've not been able to do yet so a little pushback coming from
Indiana State Police and in fact we have some words from Doug Carter the spokesman that addresses some of that he
said too that he was frustrated by the stagnated investigation but he also said that the family has failed to provide
critical information to move forward the investigation saying quote I'm hurt that
they think we haven't done anything Indiana State Police investigators have taken trips to Illinois Kentucky
Ohio and California in the hunt for Clues Carter hinted that the investigation had stalled because of a
lack of cooperation he said that while Galen spoke with investigators after the fire she has avoided conversations with
investigators about who had access to her home Carter said quote it's very important that we understand who's been
at the house who had been at the house what those Dynamics were and people who did visit the home and right now we
don't know what those answers are we have to get access to the entire family period end quote well again all First
Responders to this whether it's an accident or it was on purpose the end result is four dead children that
shouldn't be dead and those First Responders are going to have to live with that for the rest of their lives
and to think that doesn't affect them or that these the law enforcement doesn't want to solve this case
is just I I can't believe that that is the case no I'm with you Captain I don't think that that is the situation here I
think that this arson investigation is a difficult one I'm not going to sit here
though and pretend that I don't think that they have made some stumbles the investigators themselves along the way
and there's been a little bit of controversy in regards to the original fire investigator and the investigation
as it were that Dennis Randall that we've talked about his wife uh was stealing money at one point we're
talking thousands and thousands of dollars from attorneys right and she was eventually sent to do some jail time
some prison time for that theft so there was already kind of a budding of heads between the Indiana State Police Carroll
County and the fire department because while some of this investigation is going on they're also deposing Dennis
Randall to talk to him about his wife's misdealings and to see if that he is in anyhow involved or knowledgeable about
what she was up to now in the end to be perfectly clear they ruled that he had no knowledge of his wife stealing money
so while she was out doing these wrong Deeds he doesn't seem to have any awareness of it right at least off of
the based off of their findings but it's not a good look from The Outsider looking in that's going look it's been
five years what happened here well you can't deny that he was distracted correct because of this investigation
and to his you know let's just say how it is it's a dirt bag wife and I don't want to call the Delphi double homicide
case of distraction but it certainly doesn't help keep your focus on this horrible situation which has been deemed
a crime it's been deemed an arson right now as far as suspects go I think we can
touch on that a little bit here because that's one thing that's missing from a lot of the news reports I think it's
fine right it's been five years Indiana State Police I've had your guys's back for a long time when we've talked about
Delphi and in many other cases but sadly in Indiana state is just like any other
state there are many cases that are unsolved but I cannot I'm not going to shy away from my frustration that I'm
starting to have with Indiana State Police and their poor record so far of clearing these very important cases well
let's just say how it is we have six victims and then thousands of victims that are connected to they become
victims because they're connected to the murdered victims yes and those murdered
children there's six murdered children that you have no goddamn answers for come on they're they're batting a zero
right now and I feel like I'm still gonna have their backs for a while I'm gonna give you another opportunity here
Indiana State Police but the sad truth of it is in regard to these two cases it's not been a good look and if you
were on my baseball team we probably would have cut you a long time ago well if they don't get their [ __ ] together
I'm cutting their funding well I'll tell you that I'm not going to send any more
beer fund money their way since very few people were talking about suspects let's
try to talk about some suspects here and again this is going to be speculation on
our part as we are not on the inside of this investigation and they've not allowed really anybody on the inside of
this investigation so a man named Mike virgin is one of the people who has been on the inside of this investigation and
been inside the house since the fire he runs his own fire investigation company he was hired by the mother of the 4 four
girls and her attorney he has not worked with them for months by this point but he has said on the
record that he still thinks about the house and the case often he said that he spent more than 15 years
as a certified fire investigator with the ATF before starting his own company so this dude's legit right he knows what
he's doing he's been to more than one thousand fire scenes and investigated this one just weeks after it happened
there are still things that he does not want to share even while we're at the five-year marker here here's an exchange
from an interview with him and a news team the reporter here is Stephanie Zeppelin basically Captain he's saying
no relation to lead he is saying that where he thought the fire started is where it started okay so his initial
suspicions whatever his initial suspicions were right when he got there and conducted his investigation his
suspicions were confirmed Zeppelin goes on to push him and say and that is where
and virgin says I can't really say right now because if we get to a point in the
investigation that they make an arrest the only people that should know where the fire started is the person who said
it and the investigators right he says that he believes that the fire was an arson
but that the goal was not to kill the children he is also not sure whether everything
possible is being done to solve the case if it's not to kill the children then what it was it for why was the fire
started he does he's he's being vague on purpose because he thinks that the answers to these questions
would lead you to the person or or may confirm once you have the correct suspect
across from you at the interview table right well because the Delphi case has been covered considerably more than this
case there are people out there that have tried to connect the Delphi murders to
the florifier I think it's fair to do so we're talking about time and proximity to the two cases are relatively close
and the victimology is very similar we're talking about young girls here in all the situations but to me Captain I
look at this and I go in the Delphi case those girls were absolutely targeted now how premeditated
that was is Up For Debate right but here at the Flora Fire case you could almost say that the house
was targeted and I say that because I did quite a bit of research on serial arsonist
and a lot of times they will start setting fires to structures that are not occupied right and then they will
graduate for a lack of better word to structures that may have occupants inside of them some of them get so bad
and so deranged at some point that they are purposely seeking out a structure with occupants to set fire to one of the
things I start questioning too is like like you said maybe the house is the Target and not the individuals in
it because we have it's a it's a duplex a lot of these older houses they were at
one point a single family home and then converted into like a duplex or to Shared living
so again it could just be as simply as well there's no lock on the back door so this
you know droopy dookie dung bucket found an entrance Point into this uh residency if the fire was set inside and
that's the interesting thing there to me because if you have a ruling of arson right typically in these situations and
again it doesn't have to be a Serial arsonist but that's the statistics that are available for us to review so that's
the route that I went here and what you have with a Serial arsonist typically they are only setting fires to
structures from the inside when they are doing that to structures that they know
to be unoccupied right they're not going into a home or into a business and setting the fire from inside now the
ones that quote graduate to setting fires to structures that are occupied typically they're setting those fires to
those structures on the outside and often if it's a home it would be to the porch area either the front porch or
back porch maybe a garage so something that's attached to the home but not necessarily inside of the home well
again like you said you have to look at the victims surroundings the the people that they're
involved with in their lives but it's again shared residency so not just one side's relatives
and their connections but the other side's relatives and connections as well and one thing that is certainly a
possibility here that could leave the door open for not only the house was itself was
targeted but the occupants were somewhat targeted whether they were known by name
or or what have you is look there is a potential that this could be a hate related crime that this
is some type of hate crime yes we have a small population of people but we only have about point three percent of them
being African-American and four right and this is no I want to be clear here this is no direct disrespect to the
people of Flora because you can have an outsider come in and commit a hate crime
in your Tiny Town and then leave right but it's something that we should examine you could Target that house by
saying well I know that African-American people live there and so that is something that has been
speculated on and unfortunately until we have somebody standing in front of a judge
we won't know what the motivating factor was here for the person that set the fire I want to use the words of the
investigators from what little words that they've released to us that I think might provide some insight to who may
have carried out this crime again everything that I'm seeing captain and I think you might agree with me points to
the words that they're saying make it sound like the fire started inside the home that they believed that it was
started inside the home yeah I agree and I think what backs that up is they're looking at the the range and the stove
they're also talking about we we heard the rumors or early statements that the fire may have started in the kitchen we
hear the mother complaining about Outlets not working in the kitchen area and I'm with you I feel like a Serial
arsonist does not feel likely here but I did spend a decent amount of time looking into that because for some
bizarre reason Flora has a terrible record with house fires and has a what I have to believe is a higher than normal
fatality rate due to house fires at least in the months in the Years around this Flora case so I went looking into
those because sadly once one thing that is not terribly uncommon when you have a
Serial arsonist is that it is in fact a first responder in fact I'll give you a quote here 94 of cereal arsonists are
male very few are caught 16 approximately are caught but set maybe 30 or more fires before being caught
First Responders set fires premeditated with intent to return to the fire in a professional capacity that's beyond
strange to me it's not likely but it's not terribly uncommon and like you said not a high success
rate in this town I mean you're having a lot of house fires again some of that is
going to be due to just older buildings and not buildings that are kept up I mean when I lived in
Richmond Indiana the thing that I was really shocked by you know where I come from in Columbus when you're renting
you're normally renting an apartment or apartment unit when I lived in Richmond if you're renting you're probably more
likely to be renting a house a single family house or a single family house that they turned into shared living and
again not a great success rate anywhere in this country at solving these arson fires but to give you some kind of
background here on what we may be looking for as far as a speculation into a physical description profile of of a
likely offender if it was somebody that was setting an arson fire that didn't have any ties to the family
that wasn't inside the home or was not invited into the home then what we're probably looking at here captain and
these are just National statistics 44 of the arsons that are cleared in this country are committed by white males
under I'm sorry 44 of the arsons that are cleared in this country are committed by individuals that are under
18 years of age and 64 percent are under the age of 25. males makeup as we said earlier that high
percentage number of offenders and 75 percent of those arrested are white 23 percent are black so if you're
going to put a number if you're going to play a numbers game here on the physical
description of a likely offender again if this is an arson not tied directly to the mother or anyone in the family
we're probably looking for a rather young guy or somebody that was 25 or even let's even go 29 and under at the
time of this fire and given the makeup of the general area and the statistics that we see
nationally it's highly likely that it might be a white male they committed this crime
where the thing gets tricky is again back to those words makes it sound like they believe that the point of origin to
be somewhere inside the structure which then takes away from the probability of it being a Serial arsonist
that makes you go back to what doug Carter has said that they don't believe that they've been given full access to
the family or full access to the Dynamics and what was going on in and around that home leading up to the fire
meaning let's say it didn't have a faulty lock we would want to know things right like
who had a key who had access to the home who frequented the home what would they do while they were there
these are all things that the Indiana State Police would like to know especially if they believed that the
fire started inside and if they believed that it was through the use of accelerants they've probably identified
the accelerant now you said something off Mike that is very important to remember people keep accelerants
around their homes they're part of our everyday life this is one of those cases right where
we have very little information and unfortunately it doesn't sound like they feel like they can come off of any of
that information because later a conviction might Teeter on the idea of who knows what but also the public is
really kind of handcuffed here where we can't offer much help because we don't know one who they're
suspicious of what kind of accelerant we should be looking out for who was coming and going
from that area and if they're even right if the investigators are even correct that it might be somebody that is tied
to the family well again I want to go back to the possible connection with the Delphi I just sent you a picture through
text message it was one of the it was just a news article talking about the floor of fires
it was talking about local businesses donating stuff to the family and you see a worker that looks like he is coming
down the steps and he was probably in charge of boarding up the windows at the time
and this picture kind of sparked a lot of online detectives armchair detectives going
like well look at this guy he kind of looks like Bridge guy and kind of looks like he's wearing the same jacket as
Bridge guy kind of has that dumpy pouch look in the front of the jacket like he almost has items in his front
pockets or something of the jacket and look I don't I don't know how much weight there is to this but I I really
think it's just simply it was a picture and an image this guy caught this person's eye or caught these
sleuthor's eyes and then use this as a possible connection between Delphi and florifiers it feels
to me like anybody with eyeballs somebody somebody that can see has made these comments I feel like Bridge guy a
lot of people look like him obviously that's one problem that Indiana State Police have had in that investigation so
many side by side so many people giving tips that are simply this guy looks somewhat like him I don't even think
that we have a great picture of Delphi of the bridge guy to begin with correct uh so I think that that's caused a lot
of confusion and a lot of problems I see two very different cases here um me too based off but I just wanna I
just wanted to point out that like yeah when you see this picture and somebody goes oh well that's happened right by
the Delphi and doesn't that guy look a little bit like Bridge guy somebody could go oh well I could see somebody
going down a rabbit hole and trying to figure out who this individual was and how are they connected not just to the 4
horrifiers but how they're connected to Delphi but I think it's a it's just a rabbit hole well speaking of rabbit
holes one that I found myself in in regards to the serial arsonist or first responder arsonist angle to it
this is a very weird portion of the story and I want to make sure that I cut everyone off at the pass here rather
than them contacting me and saying did you look at this Josh dislinger the officer that was one
of the good officers that was trying to help trying to get victims out of this house
who was sent to the hospital himself oddly enough this is not the first time that he's responded to a house fire that
has ended in fatality right from the information I could find Captain this is the third situation in
about six seven years where he's responding to a fire uh and running inside so I want
to make sure that we are clear here that we're not throwing him under the bus because this would be two very different
people that we're talking about one this guy's running into burning buildings trying to save people that's a much
different guy than our suspicions of a first responder serial arsonist right I want to be very clear about that I also
want to make sure that we point out here while the florifier that we're discussing today has been deemed an
arson the other two fires that I could find that he was one of the First Responders to in fact I believe he was
the first responder to the other fires they were deemed yeah one was electrical yeah one was an electrical fire and the
other uh they know the cause of so we're not talking about a situation here where
he's report repeatedly showing up to arson fires yeah I could see somebody have even a suspicion that oh you start
this fire and then you show up and then you save the individuals and then you become a local hero because of it but
again anybody that would do anything like that is deranged in my opinion one thing I do want to point out and give
kudos to a web sleuth or for you know I don't want to I don't wanna get too heated at the whole web sleuth
or Community here I like the web sleuthor community and yes maybe they come up with some
far-fetched ideas sometimes but the more that people are looking into these cases
the more that people are talking about them the more pressure we have on law enforcement to actually solve these
cases I personally I find that the internet has a lot of far-fetched ideas in these
cases as far as the actual web sleuthers go right I feel like they're a lot more
spot on or more realistic and logical in their pursuit of Justice in these cases
so I want to make sure that we point out here something very different from somebody just going oh this guy looks
like that guy um well I do want to point out that true crime garage it's been it's a proven
fact that true crime garage listeners are one the best web sleuthors more knowledgeable on on crime in general and
the best looking and best smelling listeners of all True Crime podcasts and that's a fact that is a fact that's
backed up by science science and Edison research this is something that's gone unreported or I don't know if that's the
correct word here not reported however you want to put it but one thing that I think that's interesting here is that
three weeks before the fire a man named John tayden filed for divorce from Galen
Rose and again there are literally no reports in any of the media about this or her even having a husband at all
right the only reason we know about this is because a Savvy web sleuther user found the marriage disillusion petition
so I'm not saying that there's any that this is any way connected to one another
but it is fact it is something that did happen so we know that John filed for divorce on October 31st of 2016.
and the court website listing the parties to the petition as John's address was listed in Texas so we don't
know where he was in relation to Flora Indiana I mean he very likely could have been at his home
in Texas and had been there for weeks and months and months but that is something that we did uncover when
looking into this case well again this case is very confusing and you want to know why law enforcement is saying that
she's the mother of these four children why she's not being as Cooperative as they think they sh that she should be it
also could be a situation hey she's going possibly through this divorce is she afraid to come forward and and to
tell law enforcement to look into different individuals we don't know that could she not trust the investigation
itself is where I think that we might stand here and I think that would make the most sense because look you're not
coming out right away saying whether it's arson or an accident she was very Cooperative in the early parts of this
investigation well and maybe her lawyer is saying look because the law enforcement has flip-flopped back and
forth maybe they're going to flip back eventually and say oh you know what more findings we don't think this is arson
well part of it and will that affect a later lawsuit a civil lawsuit down the line part of it too though Galen lives
in California now which last time I looked at a map is nowhere near Indiana and so where the investigation beside it
may have stalled and where we have Indiana State Police on record saying we don't feel like the family's being
overly Cooperative with us at this point in our investigation I I would like to know why are are we to believe that who
is at fault because of that is it simply that she doesn't live in Indiana anymore
and we've not made a great deal of effort to speak with her or is it simply the fact that she was a
mother of four children that died in a fire and some people don't recover from that
well that's why she moved to California she said you know early on the the the community and she has thanked the
community time and time again her and her family have thanked the community for their handling of this tragic
situation and the way that they treated her and her family afterwards and try to
lift them up in any way that they possibly could but you know she said I couldn't live there anymore I I lived
there with my four children I drove by that house it's near downtown Flora she's like I would pass that house in my
my life would be ruined over and over again I'm waking up to the same nightmare every day well and think about like her
job like you said if she's a gas station attendant the amount of locals she's seeing every day you know if I went into
that gas station I I'd want to give her a hug out I'd want to tell her hey I'm sorry for your loss
hearing that hundreds and hundreds of times a day as as heart felt as it might be
it's just it's like a dagger every time and sadly what I'm worried about here Captain as more time passes
we know how all these cases go be it arson or otherwise it just becomes less likely
that we will get Justice for these four girls and that we will get some answers this is such a tragic
case take the time to go to our Instagram or Twitter or Facebook we'll be posting
pictures of these four beautiful girls and other photos that are related to this case you
can find those again True Crime garage wherever Twitter Facebook Instagram Indiana State Police
are still investigating this sad and tragic case they are still looking for the person or persons responsible they
would like information leading to the arrest of those persons or the person responsible for this fire remember four
young girls were killed in their Flora Indiana home on November 21st 2016 this was determined to be an arson fire there
is a reward for information if you have any information please please reach out to the Indiana State Police you can call
them at 1-800-382-4628 foreign [Music] thank you so much for listening thank you for letting us whisper in your ear
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week be good be kind and don't litter thank you [Music] foreign

Flora Fire ////// 538

Part 1 of 1 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

The headlines were horrific. One read - “4 sisters perish in Flora fire.” On Monday, November 21, 2016 the tiny town of Flora, Indiana woke up to a terrible tragedy. At 3:30 AM a family of five woke up in a nightmare. Unfortunately only one member of the family made it out of the house that morning. Later it was determined that the fire was intentionally set and the reason that four beautiful little girls lost their lives was arson. Now it’s been five years and here in the Garage we are getting very frustrated with the handling of this case. The investigation involves multiple agencies, overseen by the Indiana State Police. An agency that we have always had a lot of faith in. But we have been told by the ISP that this investigation is a “full court press” to find justice for this family and the community. After five years that is simply hard to believe.

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Brief Summary

The Flora Fire case resulted in the tragic deaths of four sisters, leading to an arson investigation with no suspects identified.

Key points

Tragic Fire Claims Four Sisters. A devastating house fire in Flora, Indiana, took the lives of four young sisters.
Fire Ruled as Arson. Investigators determined the fire that killed four sisters was deliberately set, not accidental.
The Delphi Murders Connection. The case in Flora, Indiana, is linked to the Delphi murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.
Investigation Challenges. The investigation into the Flora fire faces scrutiny over its handling and communication issues among agencies.
Stalled Investigation. Five years after the fire, the investigation has not led to any arrests or new information.
Federal Lawsuit Filed. Galen Rose's attorney filed a lawsuit claiming negligence against her landlords after the fire.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

this deadly house fire was no accident.

Revealing the nature of the fire

6:49WatchNov 1, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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