Fatal Accident or Framed for Murder? The Trial of Karen Read | Forensic Files

[Music] this is a case that captivated the nation last year but I never did like a
proper crime junkie Deep dive because it was going to trial and I thought okay things are going to wrap up we're going
to have a conclusion right I have never been so wrong the trial of Karen Reed for the murder of John o'keef was a six-
week spectacle that had more twists and turns and theatrics than most legal dramas on TV and it all ended with a
mistrial so it's happening again so I'm going to catch you up I want to tell you
everything we know about the death of joh O'Keefe so that you are fully prepared for this second trial that's
starting super soon but before we go back to court I'm going to present you the two versions of the same story that
we heard last time and you get to decide which one is true these are the stories
of the death of John O'Keefe here's what we know for sure about January 28th and 29th
2022 on January 28th 41-year-old Karen Reed met up with her 46-year-old boyfriend of 2 years John O'Keefe they
met at this bar in Canton Massachusetts called CF McCarthy's now surveillance video shows Ken walking in greeting John
at 8:51 p.m. and they're drinking there for about 2 hours hours until they walk over to another nearby bar the waterfall
where they meet up with a group of people that John knew some of whom Karen knows is but some of them were law
enforcement just like John who is a Boston cop now everyone's having a good time like mingling talking know one
person standing out more than another video from that night shows that Karen was throwing back drinks at one point in
the night she actually seemed to be like ordering shots and then pouring them into her mixed drink I guess to like
make them stronger actually I just watched the documentary that came out on HBO she says like it was a drink she
didn't like and so she got a shot and was pouring it in there I don't know either way shots and drinks and listen
it's not like everyone else is sober this is a group that can put a few back and no one's ready to call it quits
around midnight when the bar is closing despite the fact that it's already snowing and New England is about to get
walloped by a nor Easter John even still has a cocktail glass in his hand when he
leaves the bar with Karen and they move the party over to a house about 5 minutes away at 34 Fair viiew
Road becomes Infamous at some point now the house belongs to a couple in the group this other Boston cop and his wife
so Brian and Nicole Albert now it was their son Brian Jr's 23rd birthday and I guess Brian and Nicole basically invited
everyone back to their house to join whatever like party he was having now despite the copious amounts of alcohol
that has been consumed Karen climbs behind the wheel of her Lexus JN in the passenger because she's going to drive
them over now John didn't know Brian Albert super well but he did know someone else in the group well a woman
named Jen mccab and she is actually sisters with Brian's wife Nicole so Nicole Albert who owns the house so John
and Jen exchange calls and texts along the way it's now shortly after midnight January 29th at 12:4 John texts Jen
McCabe where to and then less than a minute later she calls JN back and they have this like 44 second conversation
presumably like giving getting directions 4 minutes after that at 12:18 JN calls Jen for 36 seconds likely he's
like getting some clarifying directions or whatever because by this point everyone is starting to arrive at the
house and like Jen is expecting JN and Karen too but they don't come rolling into the house after everyone so Jen
goes to the window and looks out she actually sees a dark SUV that might be Karen so she texts John at 12:27 here
when he hasn't replied 2 minutes later she calls him again John answers the call it's a quick 8 seconds and then he
hangs up but he still hasn't come in at 12:31 Jen texts John hello at 12:40 she texts him again pull behind me at 12:41
Jon gets two Miss calls from Jen and Jen texts where are you 12:43 JN gets a missed call from Jen 12:45 Jen text John
hello 12:46 Miss call from Jen to John 12:47 missed call from Jen again 1250 missed call from Jen now no one but the
people who lived this story knows what happened next but there are a few things that we do know for certain we know that
Jon got out of Karen's car and Karen's car data shows that she put her car in reverse and backed up at some point then
she drove off eventually ending up at John's place for the night and she drove off pissed yeah wasn't she leaving like
really really angry voicemails like that whole night well not the whole night but
like after she left like most certainly yeah and I actually want to play some of
them for those who don't know what we're talking [Music] about John I'm going home I cannot leave
you f your need I need to go home you you me another girl he sleeping next to me you're
loser so she's mad she is also firing off texts at this point telling John that she's going back to her house in
Mansfield she's leaving his niece and nephew Home Alone Now John's niece and nephew both actually live with him
because he took them in after his sister and his brother-in-law both died in short succession of one another and
listen she's not actually going to end up leaving them alone but this is what she's threatening to do
so she stays at John's and eventually falls asleep on the couch until about 4:30 in the morning when she wakes up in
a panic now it's Karen who alerts people in the morning that JN never came home like she first wakes up his niece asking
her to call Jen McKay because Jon didn't come home she needs to find him but she
doesn't have Jen's number and she's reported to have sound panicked and she was talking maybe about a fight that
they'd gotten in and when she finally gets on the phone with Jen at 4:53 in the morning Jen says she doesn't know
where Jon is but she will help Karen look for him so Karen is going to meet Jen at Jen's place and in the meantime
she calls another friend Carrie Roberts Carrie wasn't in the group that went out
the night before she's just a good friend of John's but Karen just wants more people to for more people helping
and and trying to get figure this all out right so on the phone with Carrie she is so panicked that she's saying she
thinks Jon is dead so while Carrie makes her way to meet up with Jen and Karen she is also calling like non-emergency
police lines to ask if there's like been any snowplow accident she's calling local hospitals but no one has any intel
on John O'Keefe now once all three women are back together they drive back to John's in that new documentary I told
you I just watched Karen says it was actually Jen's idea for them to go back and look which didn't make sense to
Karen she said but I don't know like they didn't fully look she said I was there he wasn't but like I think Jen's
probably thinking like he could just be passing out somewhere right so they go back to his house they look around he's
nowhere to be found so they head over to where Karen says she last saw him outside of the Albert's home now at this
point it's around 6:00 a.m. snow is still coming down they've all had very little sleep and Karen is in a
full-blown panic in the back seat presumably made even worse when Jen says they never saw Jon the night before and
Karen starts going on about how drunk she was the night before and that she doesn't remember anything and that her
tail light on her SUV is cracked and Jen and Carrie find themselves being asked by Karen could I have hit him did I hit
him and when they near the Albert's house Karen begins literally like kicking at the door shouting there he is
he's right there but Jen and Carrie can't see anything I mean they just see snow until Karen like launches herself
out of the car and runs over to a spot in the Albert's lawn like near this flag pole they have where sure enough after
like brushing away about 6 in of fresh snow they find John and Karen throws herself on top of him and is like
lifting up their shirts to try and exchange body heat warming him up she makes a comment in the new documentary
that she like pulls a piece of glass out of his face which like it's the first time she mentions this by the way but
like pulls a piece of glass out and he's bleeding and she's just freaking out trying figure out what to do and this is
when Jen calls 911 at 6:04 in the morning no pleas s line what is emergency um yes I need someone to come
to 34 uh 34 Fe viiew Road and Canton Map There's a man pass out in the snow 34 Fair View yes there's a man unresponsive
in the snow okay is he uh you yeah you've got to get here okay okay what's going on is he face
down we we just flipped him over okay and who's that in the background is that someone related that's that's his his um
girlfriend his name is John okay how old is he John is um 46 years old 46 how long has he been
outside I don't know um I I don't know he got out of the car and a couple of hours is he carry is he
I don't I um I I um I I don't I don't know if he's breathing there are two women trying to
heat do his body heat and they're hysterical okay can you just try to asking I know it's tough but we already
have the fire department going I just got to know if he's breathing is he breathing you guys no I doesn't seem to
be breathing okay do they know how to do CPR do they want to attempt CPR you guys
carry get can you guys do CPR no I guess he's gone okay they don't feel comfortable doing so no I think
he's passed away okay okay all right we got the fire department and the police department on the way if everyone's to
planing CPR then I can't I'll hang up with you and U if anything changes you can give us a call back where are you
guys outside oh right out front you it's a car I know I know I'm on the phone with
the ambulance I know I know I know I know honey I know Carrie you got to get off him honey
Carrie you got to get off of him oh my God this is a you know if there was any uh alcohol or drugs involved
stop he he he they had been out um they had been out they've been out yes I but I'm talking hours about
maybe and I I said I don't know how long he's been in the snow okay is there any
bleeding or anything maybe hit his head hit his head out yes possibly there seems to be bleeding in the face okay
bleeding from the face all right yes and how big's the pool of blood if there is
any um something's coming out of his not and one of the on is doing CPR okay one
of woman is doing CPR yes they're both working on him all right if she's doing CPR just let me just give us a call back
if he becomes response right but we're on the way okay thank you now I know that audio is a little
hard to make out but Karen is obviously panicking in the background I mean to the point that the dispatcher actually
asks who he can hear in the background while he's trying to get all the details of what's going on and Jen tells him
it's John's girlfriend so we know it's Karen that's y in and Jen also tells the dispatcher that they don't think Jon is
breathing and the dispatcher tells them to start CPR so Karen starts that until Canton Police and paramedics get there
which is like a few minutes later and they're all probably shocked to find out that the man lying in the snow is one of
their own now John isn't Canton PD like I said he is a 16-year veteran of the Boston Police Department but he lives in
Canton and Canton is a small town where like most everyone knows each other so the pressure is on to try and save John
they Rush him to the hospital and Karen is actually brought to the hospital too because she is threatening that she
might take her own life if Jon Dies but try as they might John can't be saved and by 7:50 in the morning authorities
deliver the heartbreaking news that Jon has died and the investigation into his death officially kicks off with a man
named Michael Proctor at the helm and boy would that turn out to be a mistake [Music]
at the scene where Jon was found Canton police officers battle continued snowfall as they try and sift through
the inches of white powder on the ground to look for and collect evidence now meanwhile state trooper Michael Proctor
has already began talking to people and he's hearing bits and pieces of a fuzzy story but the outline is there
everyone's been drinking it's a snowstorm people are drinking and driving in a snowstorm he's told that
Karen dropped JN off but JN never made it in he needs to talk to Karen I mean lots of people are talking about Karen
about what they say came out of Karen's mouth that morning but Michael needs to talk directly to Karen right because at
one point she's not just asking if she hit him like she says she did hit him right so according to a paramedic yes
they say they actually heard her say it three times I hit him I hit him I hit him but cops don't know that yet now by
this point Karen has been released from the hospital and they did a blood test while she was in there and the results
were that her BAC was 07 to like 8% which at that point is around the legal drinking limit and mind you this
is hours after she reportedly stopped drinking but she's been released by this point she's at her parents' place like
she had actually gone there after first going to Jon's house I mean that was basically her second home but Jon's
family was all there and she said like when she got there she did not feel welcome so like Mom and Dad's house it
is so that's where Michael Proctor finds her and her SUV which they seiz as part
of their investigation she tells Proctor and another sergeant that he's with that
she and John were fine now they did get into an argument that morning on the 28th over like what she gave his teenage
niece for breakfast like one of those dumb fights that couples have and then that night she and John met up at the
bars she dropped JN off at the Albert home made a 3o turn and then headed back home and then in the morning she spotted
a broken tail light on her car but wasn't sure how it happened now we know that this first meeting with Karen fed
into investigators Brewing theory about her culpability and the investigation Proctor leads over the next week or so
only feeds the fire even more back at the scene other officers had begun finding physical evidence around the
area where Jon's body had been when he was carded off he was missing one shoe but that got found nearby along with his
hat a cocktail straw and pieces of glass that they believe came from that glass he was holding when he left the bar they
also find pieces of red and clear plastic consistent with Karen's tail light on Brian Albert's lawn so 2 days
later on January 31st an autopsy is performed on JN and the medical examiner finds that Jon suffered a lot of
injuries now he's got several abrasions on his right forearm small cuts above his right eye and on the left side of
his nose a 2-in laceration on the back of his head multiple skull fractures that caused brain bleeding and two black
eyes now aside from the abrasions on his arm from the neck down he does not have
a single broken bone or fracture But ultimately they find that he died of blunt force trauma and hypothermia so
Proctor looks at all of this evidence that police found the tail light the autopsy results the way Jon was ejected
from his shoe the same way he's seen so many cases of vehicular homicides before
and it is his belief that all of it points right to Karen and the idea that she backed into John in her Lexus SUV
and left him to die in the snow so on February 1st police arrest Karen at her home in Mansfield she is arraigned the
next day on charges of manslaughter motor vehicle homicide in leaving the scene of a deadly crash when that
happens Karen retains attorney David yannetti first and local press catch him coming out of the courthouse where he
gives the public their first real insight into the case and what's to come Karen's going to fight he says she has
no Criminal Intent and that she loved Jon and she is innocent Karen was let out on a $50,000 bail that day and yti
started to prepare what at first felt like a pretty straightforward defense but then on February 2nd Yanti
gets this very strange call from an anonymous tipster that takes this seemingly straightforward case and
transforms it into one of the biggest conspiracy cases I have ever come [Music] across according to Boston Magazine on
this call this Anonymous tipster says something to the effect of your client is innocent JN was beaten up up by Brian
Albert and his nephew they broke his nose and when O'Keefe didn't come to Brian and a federal agent dumped his
body on the front lawn who was the federal agent so the the federal agent is someone they were out with drinking
at the bars that night someone that went back to their place too now to be fair we don't know for sure this is who the
anonymous tipser was talking about but like the federal agent we know was at the house that night was Brian Higgins
which I'm sure his the name you're familiar with but he's an ATF agent Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms and
explosives and he's going to become Central to this story that's why you know his name yeah and he's actually one
of the only people who knew Karen really well in that group but back to this call
so this tipster ends up recanting everything he said apparently police track him down and when they interview
him he says like JK none of it's true but his tip has already gotten Karen's wheels turning she says in an interview
with Nightline that after the tipster came forward she went on Facebook and started finding photos of the police who
were investigating the case with people who were in The Albert's house that night now it's unclear what exact photos
she is talking about in that interview but we know now that Michael Proctor is in multiple social media posts with
members of the Albert family so she starts to wonder if all of these people are connected and if she's being framed
in some sort of cover up for something they did and if that's the case she knows that she needs a topnotch defense
team so in September she sends an email in which she says quote I am fighting for my life against a blue wall and that
email goes to Alan Jackson not Alan Jackson the country singer to be very very clear was my first thought but this
is a high-profile defense attorney from Los Angeles and this idea that she's putting forward this catches his
attention now he has a couple of follow-up questions but it doesn't take much he's in and no one's been able to
say why exactly this next thing happens for sure is it because Karen seemed to be gearing up for a fight and they were
hoping to intimidate her push her into a deal or was it just because they continued digging and felt like the
circumstances of the case had changed you tell me but by June 2022 a grand jury had indicted Karen on upgraded
charges of second deegree murder manslaughter while operating under the influence of alcohol and leaving the
scene of personal injury or death Karen again pleads not guilty and post bail again this time it's
$100,000 and this is really when the madness begins not when this thing goes to trial no no no that is not happening
for two more years at this point the pre-trial hearings and what played out on the internet was a spectacle on its
own enough so that we all knew what each side's case was before even going to trial or before the first Witnesses ever
even even took the stand I mean we already knew the prosecution side right though they do fill in the story a
little more with details along the way basically they say that Jon and Karen's relationship was on its way out Jon's
niece had even heard him say as much like his relationship with Karen had like run its course and the day they all
went out JN seemed pretty fed up with her in one text he told her he was tired of arguing all the time but I mean we
know they also met up at the bar and he was trying to convince her to stay over for the weekend so like talk about mixed
signals yeah but it seems like Karen might have had one leg out the door too because she was texting another guy and
not just any other guy that ATF agent Brian Higgins they had been pretty flirty over text even shared a kiss
pretty recently at Jon's house when Karen walked Brian Higgins to the door and listen new fear unlocked when this
thing does get to trial Brian has to take the St hand and read these texts out loud under the fluorescent lights of
the courtroom streamed on court TV and I have never suffered from secondhand embarrassment the way I did watching
that day of trial and I need everyone to know exactly what I mean the fendant responded you're
hot I responded are you serious or messing with me the fender responded no I'm serious I
responded failing is mutual is that bad when were you interested Defender responded I don't
know you're just my type I responded you think you can handle me yeah that's the
type of embarrassment that like wakes you up in the middle of the night 7 years later and you just continue to
cringe yes so relationship status complicated for sure now even though everyone at the bar said that the couple
seemed fine the theory is that they began fighting about something thing in the car so that by the time Jon gets out
of Karen's SUV Karen is pissed exhibit a her voicemails is that the real reason she
didn't get out and go with him I don't know it's hard for anyone to know why Karen didn't get out because Karen's own
story about why she didn't get out has changed over time more proof to the prosecution that she's lying
like at one point she says oh she didn't get out because she had a stomach ache and then at another Point she says it's
because she didn't know if she and John were actually invited so she sent him in
to kind of like sus out the vibe either way she doesn't go in instead the prosecution alleges that Jon got out of
the car and when he did Karen intentionally backed up into him which they say is proven by a few things one I
mean first and foremost everyone in the Albert home home says that John never came inside hard stop two there are no
footprints in the snow leading from the Albert's house to Jon's body so it seems
like no one from the house walked anywhere near where John was found but it was a blizzard like would we even
expect there to be footprints in the snow yeah I don't think so it's just like pointed out so I felt like I had to
throw it in here but like no I don't know number three we have the data from Karen's SUV so they have data from
Karen's SUV that shows she backed up for 60 ft driving 24 mph that morning but the vehicle's data doesn't specify
exactly what time now number four they've got surveillance video that shows Jon leaving the bar like I said
earlier with a glass in his hand and they say that they find that glass shattered next to his body on the lawn
so they think that he was holding it when she backed up into him and then of course number five which is like the
prosecutions Clincher you have her broken tail light found in the snow which they reconfigure back together to
show it was hers and the prosecution says that they even find pieces of plastic from the tail light like
somewhere within his clothing the sixth thing they point to is they've got a hair on the back of Karen's car that
when tested is found to be consistent with Jon's DNA and then finally they have the autopsy he suffers blunt force
trauma after as the prosecution says being hit by Karen's car and then she drives away leaving leing him to get
hypothermia and die because no one knows he's out there pretty cut and dry right
yeah if only I know so in one of the early pre-trial hearings Karen's defense attorney Alan Jackson announces how he's
going to defend Karen by exposing a cover up and a far-reaching conspiracy to frame Karen and just to be
clear when I say conspiracy I mean we are talking about the legal definition of of a conspiracy one or more people
conspiring with one another to carry out a criminal act and man whether it is truth or just a combination of very bad
police work and coincidence what comes out is [Music] mindblowing so I need to address the
turtle in the room H the turtle so there is this blogger who goes by the handle Turtle Boy real name a Carney and don't
worry if you don't like calling him turtle boy he has given an alternate option dubbing himself journalism Jesus
so do with that what you will but basically this guy covers what he calls anti-establishment news now he's from
the area so he hears about Karen's story and I didn't know at first like how he really like latches on to this but again
I just watched the doc this morning and I found out it was actually someone from
Karen's like family friends team what ever actually reached out to him they had like followed him liked what he did
and was like hey you should pay attention to this they are the ones that actually Point him in this direction and
he like fully leans in he is fully bought into the conspiracy and it basically becomes his whole personality
as seen from his website and for better or worse he is a really big reason why this case took off as much as it did
somehow this guy was coming out with a ton of Insider information on the case well turns out somehow sometimes it was
because Karen was leaking stuff to him like there was a state police affidavit that reveals that over the course of a
few months in 2023 Karen spent like 40 hours on the phone with him allegedly feeding him confidential information and
listen I'm all about independent journalism and alternatives to mainstream news but he did a lot of
things that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way which is why he has been such a polarizing presence in this case he
showed up at Jen McCabe's kids soccer game and recorded himself asking her inflammatory questions and his so-called
Turtle Riders did a rolling rally where they went house to house in a caravan of
cars using a bullhorn and shouting about their coverup allegations outside Witnesses homes which to be clear like
those people have never been charged and at this point they were all considered Witnesses in the case which is why he
ends up getting charged with witness intimidation down the line and this group's protests are popping up all over
even out of state but there is nowhere that they are more intense than right outside of the courthouse during trial I
mean it is wild turtleboy and his fans go in hard on the free Karen Reed movement they're wearing turtleboy
branded fkr merch and holding rallies outside the courthouse like to the point that the judge has to put up a 200t
buffer zone and on that document on HBO someone had said that like I don't know if this is true or not but they claimed
that the jurors could actually like hear them like chanting free Ken Reed while they were trying to deliberate like I
don't remember like even if you didn't watch every minute of trial like I did like this was all over the news it was a
mad house and our reporter spoke with one of John's closest friends and he told us that free care and Reed
protesters were actually calling people cop killers on their way into court and a bunch of officers and Jon's friends
had to escort Jon's mom into the courthouse like this guy were talking to is a marine veteran and he said the
scene outside the courthouse reminded him of being in a combat zone in Iraq and the chaos of all of this made
everything 10 times harder for John's grieving family and I was just trying to rewatch some footage to like really like
wrap my mind around what was happening like like a reminder almost cuz it does feel like forever ago at this point and
it was wild the way that you know you see this like we saw this with OJ the way that people like wrap themselves
around this and they get so like you forget why we're all here and how tragic like like a disconnection or
dissociation with reality tailgating this trial and people were outside on lawn chairs like watching it and
chanting and it has become something so much bigger than the reason we're here and the reason we're here is getting
lost so you can understand why state of offals don't give much Credence to this blogger and I say blogger I know he says
journalist but there is a difference between like anything he hears just goes up online like the vetting process
doesn't seem to be there and it's also no surprise really that the prosecution thinks that the defense's idea of a
conspiracy is Bonkers I mean the norfol da Michael morresy makes a bold move and
even issues a video statement saying that there's a reason people are tried in court and not on the internet which
is like that I agree with but he also uses this video as an opportunity to defend the one and only Michael Proctor
truper Proctor had no close personal relationship with any of the parties involved in the investigation and had no
conflict and he had no reason to step out of this investigation every suggestion to the contrary is a
lie well not so fast my guy Internal Affairs is isn't so confident in how he's handled this case they end up
opening an investigation in the Proctor's conduct and it turns out someone else is looking into his conduct
too while everyone is so busy saying the coverup theory is outlandish and some scheme cooked up by the not country
singer Alan Jackson incomes an unprecedented and I do not use that word lightly unprecedented bombshell
[Music] while attorneys are getting ready to call witnesses for the trial someone
else is reaching out to those same Witnesses the FBI that's right the feds are getting involved and they have their
own case that ends up kind of giving the defense a leg up because all of a sudden
they've got access to like 3,000 pages of documents that the feds have collected in their investigation about
this stuff and it's like almost every suspicion the defense has had gets confirmed and some and like I don't even
know where to start but like high level the defense's theory is that Karen and John drove to the Albert's House John
goes in Karen leaves there's some kind of altercation in the house specifically involving John Brian Higgins Brian
Albert and Brian Albert's nephew Colin Albert now they think there was some kind of altercation in the basement of
the home and then they put him out in the front lawn where he died and if you believe this Theory and everything
that's to come they knew he was going to die but let me really break it down so here is the defense for Karen Reed so
they say that even if Karen and John were fighting earlier that day they're fine by the time they get to the first
bar the people who were with them even testified that they seemed like they were getting along so Karen and John
meet up with everyone else at the waterfall they get invited back to the Albert's house now when they get there
by like the time of trial and stuff the defense is going with Karen's later story that she just didn't know if they
were really invited or welcome so she waits in the car while Jon goes in for a Vibe check she doesn't see him go in
like she doesn't actually watch him go in the door but he he gets out of the car she assumes he goes in right but
then he doesn't come back out and she gets pissed and leaves him there this is when Karen says she makes a three-point
turn to turn around and go home and the three-point turn I think is like her excuse for the date of the prosecution
has saying that she backed up this is also when and why they say she left those nasty voicemails and they think
it's actually more proof that he went [Music] inside John I'm going home I cannot be
you f in need I need to go home you you another girl he sleeping next to me you're
loser the voicemail sound to me like she thinks he's with another woman yeah like
she's clearly upset that he's not back upset that he never is like like isn't responding to her did she but she did
she like do that on purpose like right like you got both but there so many yeah I don't know but you can see where the
defense is coming from in this I've heard there's like a another woman who apparently like Liv near the Albert's
house that maybe John like knew or dated or something at some point and so I don't know if she had a fear that maybe
he like went there would have walked there and like again this maybe this is where the plow thing comes in like she
never says that explicitly but maybe or maybe she's just like super jealous and like thinks he's capable of anything and
that's why he's she's calling him a pervert over and over again yeah and so she thinks he's like out I don't know I
don't know I don't know right now before she makes those calls and pulls off though there's something I want to talk
about at about 12:23 a.m. a guy named Ryan Nagel pulls up outside the Albert's house with friends to pick up his sister
Julie Nagel and they get there right around the same time as Karen's SUV they actually pull up right behind it now
Ryan says in court that he didn't notice any obvious damage to the car mainly right we're thinking about the tail
light but he also notes that it's late he's been drinking now he says he's out there for for a few minutes and he
doesn't see anybody walking away from Karen's SUV toward the house and he also doesn't see anyone laying in the lawn so
Julie ends up coming out but for some reason she decides now that she's going to stay even though she called him to
pick her up and he made this big trip to like come get her but now she's going to
say whatever so Ryan and his friends leave and as they pull like alongside Karen's SUV Ryan clars that the interior
light is on and there is a woman in the driver's seat she is like looking ahead with her hands on the wheel and this is
the important part he says that she's alone and all that means is that according to what Ryan saw and what he
testified to in court at 12:23 John wasn't in Karen's car but he also wasn't dead on the lawn and from what he knows
Karen's tail light wasn't cracked at 12:36 a.m. that's when Karen's phone data shows that she connected to the
Wi-Fi in John's house and in one of the voicemails that she's leaving him like yelling at him specifically one at 12:42
a.m. you can hear her walking on hard floor so this puts her at his house 12:36 to 12:42 is and this is important
because Witnesses at the Alberts who saw a black SUV say that they saw it take off at around
12:45 and that's the time that the prosecution alleges she hit Jon but it's not possible if she's at John's house by
12:36 right and listen that doesn't mean that everyone's Recollections are perfect we're off by like 10 minutes
it's not huge but it is worth noting if this is the prosecution's case now initially everyone said they saw nothing
outside and I will say to be fair you've got this blizzard condition it is late everyone's been drinking where Jon is
found on the lawn is like over on the side of the yard towards the road and where everyone's driveway and where I
assume their cars would be are like in the driveway so I you know I'm like bundled up my coat face down when I'm
like going out in an Indiana winter I don't think they're looking for things but still no one says they saw anything
when they were leaving that morning and JN should be laying right there not yet covered in snow now eventually Julie
Nagel does say that she saw something she ended up like I said staying and then gets a ride back with actually Jen
mccab and their family and she says that she maybe saw a 5 to 6ot Long Black blob
near the flag Poole maybe maybe right but if she did see that blob she doesn't mention it to anyone she's in the car
with she doesn't mention it to Jen mcabe or her husband Matt McCabe who are in the car she just doesn't say anything
and speaking of Jen Jen's story was that she and her husband dropped them off and
went home and Jen says that she stayed up for a little bit she was like on her phone looking up a local basketball team
that her daughter might be joining and then she went to sleep in fact everyone was supposed to have been asleep until
Karen started waking people up to go look for John but the defense got their hands on everyone's phone records and it
gets really freaking weird so Jen mcab is the one communicating with John when they left the bar right right calls
texts directions directions all of that parked behind me so at 12:29 a.m. she called John and the call lasted 8
seconds and then after that point all of her calls to him go unanswered and she makes her last one to him at 1250 and
wasn't Karen calling John like a million times too during that time oh yeah she called him like 50 times that night but
anyways everyone has left the Albert house by like 2: a.m. most to go home to sleep but around 1:30 Brian Higgins
actually goes to the Canton Police Department remember he's not Canton PD he's ATF but he actually works out of an
office at Canton PD except he's not on duty that night still even though it's 1:30 in the morning and he's been
drinking he decides now is a good time that he's going to go like knock out some administrative work and or move his
cars that he's been asked to move so that the parking lot could be plowed he doesn't stay super long ends up going
home eating something going to bed so everyone should be home sleeping but that's not what phone records show at
2:22 a.m. on January 29th Brian Albert calls Brian Higgins and then 17 seconds later Brian Higgins calls Brian Albert
back and the call is answered that call lasts about 22 seconds now both men testified that they had been asleep at
this time so this is a problem right because it shows at least one of the calls was connected but both men under
oath claim that this was just a butt dial both men have iPhones by the way I have butt dialed plenty of time what I
haven't what I haven't seen is a butt dial that goes answered and then a butt dial that calls back and then that gets
butt answered while everyone is asleep the butt answer is the question mark I have while you're asleep you're not even
claim to be like moving around or walking it does not add up but they're not even the only ones whose phones I
will say are up and around and moving at this time at 2:25 a.m. two outbound texts are made from Jen mccabes phone
now it's not clear to who or what they say and is it weird that we don't know that information in 2022 and everything
is recorded on a cell phone well yes yes it is yeah I don't know why we don't have this but I do know for sure that
when police finally get her phone she has deleted a huge chunk of calls from the 29th which I think is super weird
and just calls not text right so that text is as far as I know that text is still there but she does delete
something else so at 2:26 she deletes two screenshots and then a minute later at 22 27 she does an internet search
which she later deletes the infamous internet search hos long to die in cold yep now everyone believes it's supposed
to be how long to die in cold but how got mistyped to hos and this goes on to be so heavily debated Jen says that she
didn't search that at 227 I mean she shouldn't be no one knows JN is out in the cold yet she's asleep
right well maybe not like this could be like as she's like winding down she basically says that when she went and
found JN the next morning with Karen Karen asked her to search how long does it take for hypothermia to set in or
like some version of that question and she goes to type that into a browser that she said she opened at 2:27 a.m.
and this turns into like a battle of the experts when it comes to trial because each side has experts who take the stand
and claim something different if you ask the defense that search itself was made
at 227 if you ask the prosecution that's just when Jen opened the tab I don't understand how we can't no like this
feels like the data should be solid right what am I not getting out of this it's so messy to me like the the defense
says that the prosecution whoever they were using to like analyze the data was like looking at the the wrong like
version of iOS or something and so like the way they see it they're like you're not wrong based on how you see it but
like you're analyzing it wrong or something to that effect and I don't think there is it does feel like it
should be black and white but I don't think it is because come this second trial the judge is going to allow both
sides to use their experts again so I don't think there is a definitive right answer yet the defense also says that
they have data to back up a claim that Jen deleted the search but Jen swear that she never deleted it so I don't
even know I don't even know what to think of that what we do know is that the defense expert who said the search
itself was made at 2:27 a.m. like I said is going to be allowed to testify in trial number two so the defense theory
has to be that this is evidence of them planning to put him out in the cold right cuz like they allege he's not even
out there based on luy testimony right ah lucky okay so as I've said a thousand times it's snowing hard in these early
morning hours the snow is basically like one of the leading ladies in this story
but because it's snowing so hard plow trucks are getting out there early like really early and the defense found the
plow driver who was on the Albert Street that morning now it doesn't seem like the cops went looking for him during
their investigation to confirm their Theory apparently they reached out to the town to see like who was plowing in
the area that night but they didn't go too far down that investigative Avenue so I mean this is again where people ask
like conspiracy or just like bad police work I don't know but what the defense finds by talking to Lucky is that
sometime between 2:30 and 3:00 a.m. Brian lucky lochran is on the Albert Street now he doesn't just know the
street he knows the Alberts though honestly everyone in Canton does but lucky went to school with Brian's
brother Chris and he used to deliver pizzas for Chris's restaurant so like knows them knows the street knows the
house and guess what he sees that [Music] morning lucky testifies that there was
nobody in the front lawn when he's out there which shouldn't be possible if the state is right and Karen hit John at
12:45 so my dad plowed snow like a lot of winters growing up and I feel like if you've never been in a snow plow it's
hard to describe you can hardly see like what's right in front of you let alone like or like the road like what's off in
a lawn next to you that's not anything you're troubled with so this is something that the prosecution actually
brought up and it gets argued like you're up high and it's not like he was in the road right like he's in the lawn
so they're like you just missed him but no no no no no lucky says because he's in a truck that is called the Franken
truck a reference to Frankenstein since it has a lot of different parts and he says that his seat was actually raised
up on the truck and that he had outfitted it so it would be like quote driving with a spotlight so he is
certain if there was a body there he would have seen it what he did see though he says was a vehicle parked
outside the Albert house lucky testifies there was no body in the front lawn when
he's out there which shouldn't be possible if the Commonwealth is right and Karen hit JN at 12:45 lucky says
that when he first passes the Albert's house at 2:45 a.m. there's no vehicle parked out front but then when he comes
back like 30 or 40 minutes later he sees a Ford Edge parked on the street right in front of where John's body was found
now this is relevant because the Albert say that no one else was at their house that night after everyone left the party
so if this is true whose car was that now there's a pretty quiet couple of hours between like 2:30 and 4:30 in the
morning morning where there's no phone activity 4:30 is when Karen wakes up John's niece she asks her to call Jen
cuz she didn't have her number and then she eventually calls Jen directly and that's made at 453 and after that Jen
does try to call Jon at least once at :4 and some of those calls after that were
part of the bunch that Jen deleted now why is Jen calling the simple explanation is that she just got news
that her friend is missing and she's trying to reach him right right but then why delete the calls right like looking
for your friend is a good thing yeah so the defense who believes that she searched how long to die in cold at 227
they think she knows exactly where her friend is and maybe she was doing it because she wanted to make it look like
she was concerned then again I ask like why delete the calls right and I know a big Theory online is that she was
calling to find John's phone so then they could like plant it outside near his body I heard that too but then like
why stop calling from 12:50 or like whatever her last call was till 5:00 a.m. like it doesn't totally add up for
me but like you'll see nothing in this story totally adds up right okay so Karen calls Jen again at 505 but doesn't
get through Jen calls her right back they talk for 43 seconds presumably making plans to meet up to look for John
both of those call logs are also deleted by Jen and apparently on that deleted call Jen and Karen agree that Karen will
go pick her up so Karen gets into her SUV which was parked in John's garage and his home security system catches her
on surveillance backing out at 50:07 a.m. now John's SUV is in the driveway and as she is backing out his car moves
ever so slightly I mean like you got to zoom don't blink but it's right as Karen's car would be getting close to
his and if Karen's car hit Jon's it would have been her right side tail light that hit it the same right side
tail light that police alleg she hit John with so hard that it was cracked and Left Behind the Albert's house was
it already cracked before she ever even pulled into the garage would love to tell you but there's no video footage
from Jon's ring camera showing Karen pulling in to Jon's garage that night why is there no video you may ask
because the footage is missing how how another tech question that somehow there is no answer to the prosecution has
insinuated that Karen deleted that part of the video from The Ring app sometime like the day of Jon's death though there
is no data backing this up they just like pose this hypothetically while the defense alleges that investigators
deleted it before handing the video over to them also no proof of that cool so whatever okay no problem there's
probably more footage right somewhere along her drive home home all we have to do is show the tailight is crack before
she gets to John's that morning and there is no debating this like case over well they found a camera on a local
library that would have been on the exact route she took to John's house it would have shown the right side tail
light and everything and police even collected it in time to get the footage from the time Karen would have been
driving by on the 29th but but when that footage was turned turned over to the defense it's missing a crucial 2-minute
window that would have shown Karen's car after leaving the Alberts now the prosecution says well that's just what
we got and we just turned it over how it was turned over to us and we're just supposed to like believe all that like
that twice the exact footage we need including one from a local library is just uh-oh missing sorry that's what
they're telling us so back to our timeline Karen pulls out at 5:07 to go looking for Dawn on her own for like 20
minutes before she like goes to meet with Jen and Cary and I think like there's even video of her car like going
in the direction of the waterfall bar which is like confusing to me because she leaves him not there not there like
what are you looking for there do you think he could have gone back there and it's really interesting because there is
this moment in the trial where the first trial where Jen McCabe is on the stand and she even says that in one of her
like first conversations with with Karen she's asking her like what happened or whatever and Karen's like oh I like I
left him at the waterfall bar and Jen's like no you didn't like you left together we saw you outside of my
sister's house so I don't know if that is like like what what Karen believed like like all her stories now are she
like reme remembers going remembers him going in there so like was she making up
a story did she not remember in the early days is everything a blur like is everyone drinking so much that
no one knows what's going on I don't know but she goes looking for 20 minutes at least like in the we've got her going
in the direction of the waterfall but then she like makes it back to Jen where they meet up Jen meanwhile in this time
tries calling John's phone a few more times 508 509 both deleted later from 514 to 5 32 there are a bunch of calls
between Karen's phone and Jen's phone and Jen to John's phone those all get deleted as well in Jen's call log and
Karen also tries to call John a few more times by 5:46 the three women are at Jon's house still trying to call his
cell with no luck and so they all head out at 552 they get to the Alberts and at 6:04 Jen makes the call to 911 now
First Responders get to the scene fast and this is when some of them say that they allegedly heard Karen say I hit him
I hit him I hit him or like some variation of that but interestingly the defense makes a big point in court to
show that nobody put any of this in their reports from that [Music] day not the police not the paramedics
this confession that everyone remembers so vividly only gets spoken about later which does feel odd that like nobody
mentions a confession of any kind they're not arresting her for admitting that she hit him well and if it's not in
any notes it's we're using this confession as that it actually happened not a misremembering of what she said or
what she could have said and they like pick at this at trial they're like this isn't like just like a a small detail
you have someone confessing to the crime how does that not make it into any report and they're just like I didn't
think it was relevant or or like there's a zillion reasons why they say they didn't put it in but like they're they
swear on the stand it happened but the defense is like did it now the defense says Karen never said that at all when
Karen talks to 2020 she says it was preceded by did and was a question did I hit him but I'm like getting confused
about this to begin with because this seems like one of the things like she has admitted to like she admits on 2020
even in the beginning of this HBO doc like she talks about it but then towards the end of the doc like I got all
twisted or I think she's all twisted because she's like you know I wonder if if I even said that like it's been so
many people stories and I you know I so much was going on it was so chaotic like
maybe I just kind of I don't know if these words are her words exactly but like internalized it and made that my
story so I'm like wait we all agreed that's what like you asked did I hit him and now we're trying to say and now
we're deciding now we're talking about if the words even came out of your mouth at all yeah it was it's weird I don't
know you have to watch it I don't know what to make of it well and didn't she like really early on like tell Carrie on
the phone like I think he's dead like right off the bat she goes immediately to John is no longer alive maybe he even
got hit by a plow or something she suggests a plow which is like Ultra specific yeah to me like that's not
where my head would go I'd be like oh he passed out at the place that I left him
they've been drinking all night is he sleeping it off somewhere yeah she said like she says when she's asked about
this like she just knows that there's no world he would not come home to his niece and his nephew because she
specifically like made the threat I'm not coming home and she knows he's responsible and like wouldn't leave them
so she says like if you if he didn't come home it has to mean something terrible happen but she's also kind of
accusing him of maybe being with another woman in those like in those voicemails
right like it doesn't it doesn't sense it doesn't make sense but again back to our
timeline Jen makes some additional calls that like don't make a lot of sense with
the story we've been told and then she makes two searches at 623 how long does it take to digest food
which was like I think an autopop populated search as she's trying to type how long to die and then it like and
then she has one that's like how long TI die and kicked like again they're all typos it's freezing and she's trying to
type but the the question is the same but neither of those searches are hos long to die in
cold which is important here I think so so they're out on her sister's lawn with
her friend dead on the ground at this point it makes sense to notify the people inside the house right yeah so
she calls her sister Nicole Albert at 607 and 608 both calls are answered but only last a few seconds both are deleted
from Jen's phone log and this is interesting because Brian and Nicole never come out of the house like the
whole time ever and according to all their statements they were supposed to have been asleep until Jen came into
their room to wake them up at 6:35 a.m. so who's answering the calls at 6:07 and
6:08 Jen says it's just all wrong and those calls weren't answered wait they were or weren't Jen says they weren't
the data says they were pick your favorite okay I know even after they were awake though like I reiterate they
never came out they never came out even after we know they were awake right and like some say that they didn't want to
be in the way I mean Brian is an officer himself right like better to stay put let police come to you except they like
don't I mean it's Canton PD that is called to the scene that morning and Sergeant Michael Len is one of the first
guys there and he finally goes to talk to the Alberts after Jen McCabe wakes them up but like I don't even know if
you could call what he does an interview cuz he talks to them for a few minutes with Jen there he doesn't record any of
it and he doesn't like do any kind of search of the house of according to L's report he talks to Jen again at 9:00
a.m. when she calls him back and is like hey by the way I forgot to mention that
I heard Karen say she hopes she didn't hit JN if you asked Jen though she called him back over to say hey I
actually heard Karen say I hit him I hit him I hit him either way everyone's doing this at 9:00 a.m. either way how
does no one remember this the right way like this feels extra critical I know I know I mean and again I go back to
there's a lot going on it feels like something I would remember I have never been in this scenario true now fun fact
I haven't mentioned you might already know this a lot of people might know this but Brian Albert's brother Kevin
Albert is on the Canton PD Force but if that wasn't already a conflict of interest enough Len who is the first one
on the scene that day he has his own deep ties to the family in 2002 when he was off duty he allegedly got into a
fight with two other people that Brian's other brother Chris Albert was having problems with and Chris Albert by the
way is Colin Albert's dad so like these are all the same people we're talking about so like link knows this family but
they do eventually recognize there might be some conflict so they recuse themselves but also still help out and
this is when they call in the State Police so enter Michael Proctor who we covered at the top and he has his own
lengthy lists of conflicts of interests but like I said canton's still being a pal so even though the state police
barracks are closer when Karen's car gets seized that day it is actually taken to Canton PD sallyport apparently
police say there was like more room there it had heating whatever they have picks it all adds up nicely pieces of
the tail light missing from the SUV match pieces of the tailight in the snow by John it's remember the prosecution's
proof mhm but we also have the def saying that she hit her tail light in John's driveway and what Karen told
everyone was that she had a broken tail light not like a fully busted tail light
and all the video footage that could or should show that this is true doesn't exist it's gone oh darn well that's okay
police say we have a video of when we process the car in the sally port of Canton py you'll see that we never even
go close to the tail light so we didn't like break it and plant evidence which is fully the defense Theory by the way
that the tail light evidence wasn't found at the scene at the time of John's body they don't find it until like 5:30
or 6 that night when like an emergency response team comes to help with the search like there's a little bit of
conflicting reports on like what time they find the tail light but the first crime scene photos documenting pieces of
it in the snow show that it's clearly dark outside and this is like January New England so like it set the sun sets
around like 455 that day but it takes kind of a long time before pieces are found and they're found over the course
of like the next few days so the defense theorizes that the reason they didn't find it earlier is that they had to wait
until they had Karen's car in their possession to get the tail light pieces and then plant them so the defense has
always thought it was planted but again police are like oh my God you guys are being like so dramatic look for
yourselves they even play the video in court to show that no one ever goes near the right tail light except in the
actual most dramatic Oh My God moment I've ever seen in like a real life trial the defense team notices that the
writing on one of the cars in frame it's not even Karen's car it's like this one
that no one's paying attention to the writing is backwards which means that the entire video has been like flipped
oh like mirrored inverted yeah so when it appears that Proctor is seen standing behind Karen's left tail light it's
actually the right tail light it's the right tail light oh my God now the problem still is you can't see what he's
doing because the camera is on the other side and there is a camera that would show what he's doing over there don't
tell me the video is missing part of the video is missing of course it is of course it is but here's the thing why
would Michael Proctor frame someone sure he knows the Alberts but like he doesn't
know Karen that's a huge lead he wouldn't have anything against her H like he shouldn't have anything against
her yet that federal investigation found some legit terrible conduct on his behalf in relation to Karen and the
stuff that they found was like just the stuff he put in writing like he had texts with his sister talking about the
case very early on and in one he said that he hopes Karen would die by Suicide and he wasn't just talking to his family
here is Michael Proctor reading text that he sent about Karen and Brian Albert to a group chat that he had with
his high school buddies and he's reading it here on the stand yep so these came for me from all
accounts he didn't do anything wrong she's a whack job and here he is reading a text that
he sent to his bosses while supposedly searching Karen's phone for evidence uh no news so far no nudes so
far correct correct and you said that to your bosses yes sir Alan Jackson hammers
Proctor over these texts which were sent well before Karen's been charged by the
way and they are the worst this guy is the worst and I think we all should be making a big deal about these text
messages from a law enforcement official who has got the lives of people literally in his hands but for me me
personally I did have to roll my eyes a little bit for one reason in [Music] particular the person who was lecturing
Proctor about the way he viewed women the way he viewed Karen Reed was maybe not the right person to stand on that
Soap Box like I think maybe Alan Jackson should have like left that part to his co-counsel Yanti or even like there were
other like lawyers they working with them too because it was a little hard for me to really buy his outrage and
disgust when it wasn't all that long ago that Allan Jackson was defending Harvey
Weinstein right so like tip for trial number two maybe leave the grand standing to someone who hasn't been on
the wrong side of history when it comes to the me too movement I don't know what
do I know I'm a podcaster still Proctor defends his investigation he calls his text juvenile and regrettable which says
that they didn't have any impact on how he investigated John's death but Proctor's own texts implied that he
didn't really look at anything objectively I mean when a friend asked him if the homeowner meaning Brian
Albert will quote receive some Proctor responded nope homeowner is a Boston cop too and only 17 hours into his
investigation when one of Proctor's friends text him she's right he replied correct but Proctor testifies that he
meant the quote over overwhelming amount of evidence end quote already showed by
then that Karen hit John Proctor's texts weren't the only thing Jackson called into question Proctor had testified
under oath that he didn't know any members of the Albert or McCabe families but when Jackson asked him directly
Proctor admits that the Alberts have been over to his parents house before and that he's even been at his parents
house when the Alberts were there oh and just fun fact Colin Albert was once the
ring bearer in Proctor's sister's wedding oh yeah and again like it goes deep Proctor even asked Brian Albert's
sister-in-law Julie to babysit his son as recently as 10 days before JN died so like they are clearly more than just
even acquaintances like you're trusting with your kids they're kind of like just
in the same Circle I know and even after that Julie and the Proctors like keep talking so like it gets kind of weird 3
days after JN died there are texts between Proctor and his wife in which his wife says that she just ran into
Julie and she writes quote Julie said when all this is over she wants to give you a thank you gift she want and like
it's like she wants to give you dot dot dot a thank you gift and apparently Proctor responded that the gift should
be sent to his wife and not him so that is who is doing the investigation and the people who collected all the
evidence that they wanted to use to like prove this case that this investigator is making honestly they didn't do much
better this part is less conspiracy and more just sloppy to get to Jon and all the
evidence they used a leaf blower I'm sorry what yeah they used it to like blow off all the fresh snow and get down
to like like the layer like they presumed it was all on like the ground I don't know where John died which like
yes I get it but no I don't and it's on the ground where they find all those like clear pieces of glass which they
later assume is from that cocktail glass that he walked out of the bar hold they also find some like blood in the
snow obviously they want to collect all of this as evidence right like oh no they don't have any evidence bags so for
some reason they go knocking on a neighbor's door not even the door of the homeowner whose lawn they are on who let
me remind you is a cop no they just go knocking on some random neighbor door and apparently they ask if they have
anything they can use to collect evidence and that neighbor gives them a like sealed package of red Solo cups
that they start using to like scoop everything up in like red Solo cups like beer pong cups fully but like don't
worry once the evidence is in those cups they store the cups super securely because they put them inside a brown
paper grocery bag from a Stop and Shop wonderful yeah I know and so while we're on the topic though of evidence let's
talk the autopsy so just a reminder from earlier so the medical examiner found that John suffered a lot of injuries we
have several abrasions on his right forearm cuts to the left side of his nose and above his right eye 2in
laceration on the back of his head multiple skull fractures that caused bleeding in his brain two black eyes now
he has those injuries on his arm but he doesn't have any broken bones or fractures from the neck down and the
ruling was that he died of blunt impact injuries to his head and hypothermia this is what I could never like wrap my
head around like how are all the injuries so high up if she hit him assuming he's standing like with her car
well at the time the prosecution or at least in the first try was like I think arguing that Karen hit him this sent him
like flying back and he maybe hit his head on the ground like that is what would cause the gash on the back of his
head in the documentary I've seen some other people not the prosecution specifically but other people saying
like another theory could be that like she hit him the tail light breaks and like that caused like abrasion in his
arm and then he's like disoriented and moves around and then Falls so I don't know what we're going to hear in the
second trial if that's going to play into it or if they're going to stick with what they did the first time but
the defense says that the reason it doesn't look like other cases where a person was hit by a vehicle was because
he wasn't hit by a vehicle some of their last witnesses that the defense calls are crash reconstruction experts who
will honestly become a very hot topic down the road here these experts had been part of the federal investigation
and they were presented at the time as impartial Witnesses in this case meaning they said on the stand that they weren't
paid by the defense for their testimony it was completely like unbiased right so
these experts testify that Jon's injuries were not consistent with being hit by a vehicle the defense argues that
Jon's head injury and black eyes come from some sort of fight and that the marks on his arm weren't caused by being
hit by a car at all dog bites the dog bites yes according to another of their witnesses an expert in emergency trauma
the injuries on Jon's arm they say are likely teeth or claw marks in their opinion Jon had likely been mauled by an
animal possibly a large dog which the Alberts had a German Shepherd mix right Chloe so Jackson argues that at some
point that night before during or after whatever altercation happened at the Albert's house Chloe the dog attacked
him and I feel like that's what like has fed into the conspiracy stuff is like they got rid of the dog I mean as a dog
person that's impossible to understand I know so the Albert say that they didn't
rehome Khloe until four months after all of this though and not because of anything related to John they say they
said that they sent Khloe to live in Vermont because she had gone after like another neighborhood dog or or multiple
neighborhood dogs and I think it's worth noting that like apparently labex did not find any can9 DNA on swabs from J's
sweatshirt with like which had tears through it in the spots like the same spots as the arm which like you know if
like a dog is like coming at you there slobbery is all get out right so that doesn't really help the dog by argument
but they did find Pig DNA so experts who testify a trial say that that could have come from a food
product like maybe a pork-based dog treat okay on aside you or another friend like messed up a doggy DNA test
for the reason like it came back like completely Bine oh that wasn't me yeah someone did like a dog DNA test and the
test came back as like not dog because they had to give their dog a treat to do the swap no way mhm oh interesting yeah
so like that like in my mind like Bears some Credence but also the Alberts sold their home around the same time too
which like the combination of the two things the defense I think finds pretty suspicious yeah Nicole says Nicole
Albert says that they had planned to move before John's death and they had reached out to a realtor in like
2021 and then the sale was finalized in 23 so again like weird coincidence they say and I don't know what to make of
that there but there's there's a lot of things I don't know what to make of right so like the federal investigation
and I think that we can like label this like area of episode stuff I think is weird but didn't know where to fit in
the episode question marks so there's just like little bits of things I want to hit on at a high level and I'll just
give you like the bullet points cuz we got got a trial to get two people and I don't want to keep you here till
tomorrow so here are some fast facts one the feds found out that Brian Albert destroyed his cell phone a day before he
received a protective order to preserve that phone and its contents now he says this is just a coincidence he was due
for an upgrade so he traded it in okay fine been there Brian Higgins the phone stuff is harder for me to digest so he
apparently asked another federal agent for advice on extracting phone data and then months later drove to a military
base disposed of his phone and destroyed his SIM card he claims this was because
the target of an unrelated investigation had his contact info seems like you could maybe just like change your number
not destroy your phone on a military base that state officials couldn't get access to but like whatever yeah
obviously at some point they had all stopped texting and like calling each other constantly but the defense alleges
that this group of conspirators was still in communication in the early days to coordinate and quote get their story
straight and they use one example in particular so on the stand Jen reiterates the big beats of the case
that we've talked about already but during her cross- examination something new comes out Jen says that on January
30th so this is the day after JN died she was with Carrie Roberts who reminder she's the third woman who was there when
John was found Carrie and Jen go to drop car's daughter off at a friend's house a
friend whose father is Canton py Sergeant Michael link who testified about evidence collection at the scene
and apparently when Carrie and Jen go to the house L's wife came out to talk to Carrie and she got into the car with
them and stayed in the car for an hour talking to them about Jon's death so this isn't like a quick little chat no
not at all and Jackson points to that like he says this is something that Jen never even mentioned until a pre-trial
meeting in the DA's office now Jen claims that this is just a situation where two friends Carrie and Len's wife
were talking about a traumatic event that just occurred but the defense views this as another example of conversations
that Jen and others were having in the aftermath of Jon's death where they might have all been trying to like get
on the same page and I want you to remember the defense doesn't have to prove what happened right like the
burden of proof is fully on the Commonwealth but I think that Karen and her team knew that they needed to put
forward an alternate Theory because her hitting JN feels like the obvious answer
to most people so their Theory as I told you before revolves around the allegation that some sort of fight
ensued between Brian Albert Brian Higgins and Colin Albert and at first nobody says that Colin Albert was even
at the house house that night and there's no phone data putting him there at the house that night though that
might be because investigators never collected his phone data but eventually he tells police that he was there
earlier in the night but he says that he never saw John and here's another weird
little diddy like I told you from the get Prosecutor's theory is that Jon never entered the house right like
that's been everyone's consistent story right no one saw him after he left Karen's car so here's this weird thing
so apparently when Brian Higgins testified before the Federal grand jury he said that he might have seen a tall
darkhaired man come into the Albert's house and johon O'Keefe was a tall dark-haired man so a lot of people think
that Higgins was describing seeing John in the house that night like just in case it comes up that he was there so he
didn't like lie in front of a grand jury but later when Higgins gets grilled about this on the stand he says that he
could have been talking about maybe the brother of somebody at the party when he
said that but anyways back to Colin at the time of John's death Colin was still in high school by the time it goes to
trial he's in college and he comes to court to testify and says that he had gone to his uncle Bran's house that
night at around 10:30 or 11: to celebrate his cousin's birthday he had a few beers again like we're at a cop's
house he's in high school like not awesome but whatever he said he listened to some music hung out and then he
texted a friend for a ride home and he left around 12:30 a.m. that friend who picked him up was Jen McCabe's daughter
Ali McCabe Ally says that she picked Colin up before any of the adults got back from the bar and that she was home
from dropping him off by 12:30 but Karen's lawyers have pulled data from the app Life 360 which I don't
know if you use that for your kids but like I'm very familiar with it yeah like every crime Jun knows Life 360 right you
should anyways it basically like track it's a tracking app for teens or whatever and this app shows that Ally
was driving around until like 1:30 now in court she just offers like well maybe her excuse is like the data
is off she's like I wasn't connected to Wi-Fi at the time but that can't be the excuse for everything the data isn't
wrong those calls weren't answered the data is wrong like I wasn't driving around like the data is like know that's
just a blank an excuse at this point I know this is what I'm saying about this case like you can make sense of like one
or two things that are like wonky or like weird but like all the footage can't be missing all the data can't be
wrong and it like all at the same time well and I can't figure out why like I still don't get the motive and I I don't
know I think it's because there isn't a strong one I mean they bring up those texts between Karen and Brian Higgins
they kind of suggest that maybe Brian Higgins might have felt like Karen was blowing him off that night it got under
his skin like they they've been having this like flirtation over text they even kissed like it felt like all of this was
building to something but then Karen shows up at the bar he's at with his friends with John and then she doesn't
pay much attention to Brian though I mean worth noting on the stand when they ask Brian about all this he's like
whatever like yeah we texted but like no hard feelings it wasn't serious like I don't know so maybe feelings are just
like bubbling under the surface more than anything and again I don't even think they're like thinking this is
motive like he was going after John I think they're just trying to show some like animosity like why would he maybe
jump into something else that happened though they don't say that explicitly they focus mostly on Colin as the
possible like Catalyst to all of this and it's important to note that Colin had reportedly had issues with Jon in
the past Colin's family lived near Jon and in the spring of 2020 Jon's security alarm went off and when he woke up and
he went downstairs he found Colin and several other teenagers in his front yard and Colin yelled at JN and like
apparently had some Choice words for him now JN never called the police but Karen
says that there was bad blood between Colin and John after that now Colin says that they never had any beef but it's
the defense's position that Colin had a history of being a hotthead and was part
of an assault on John that happened inside the Albert house and that the Brian then after this brought
JN out into the snow and to like try and like form this picture Jackson actually
pulls up what he insinuates is proof that Colin threw some punches that night he binds a photo of Colin out with his
friends like weeks after Jon's murder in which you can see that his knuckles are
like red and raw now Colin says that he had slipped on ice which like everyone's
like at the time I remember when this like came up in trial everyone's like how do you when you fall like you fall
down I've never fallen Knuckles first right doesn't make sense to me I don't know and I have a
problem with this like alternative Theory like we know that part of what contributed to Jon's death was
hypothermia and I know like a ton of people aren't on board with what I'm about to say but like I have a hard time
believing that a group of people who were either friends with or like barely knew a guy would like take him out to
the snow to let him die if something else happened but I also like don't get me wrong that I'm saying like everything
I like I totally believe everything that they're saying because like I think it's
very clear that people are lying so then the question to me more than anything is
like what are you lying about well and didn't they make like a big deal about the Apple Health Data during the trial
like John's specifically like where he moved and when he moved and all of that yes I I mean I think everything
they put forward about that like a lot of stuff in this case could go either way because what the data shows is that
after 1220 around the time Karen says that she dropped him off it says that Jon took 80 steps which is like half a
football fields distance and then either went like up or down three floors and that could be because he entered the
house the problem with that is GPS data from his phone apparently shows that he was in the car a half mile away from the
Albert's house when that movement was actually logged honestly like I probably should have known this already but like
I feel like Tech isn't nearly as reliable as I thought it was for tracking stuff like this like this case
has made it like scary to me and it's like almost like a beware ye future jurors not just on this case but like
any well and I was thinking when you were saying like this the steps and how long it was like my devices think that I
am running a marathon because we're doing this and talking when I'm knitting because my hands and wrists are moving
and it's like yeah oh wow you're getting your steps in and I was like oh dear I know I am not oh one of the other pieces
that I think is worth mentioning because like it it's huge when it comes to the prosecution's case it one of the things
I brought up in evidence that they point to is the hair that they found on Karen's car that they said links to John
right like this is proof that she hit John with her car right well a lot of people are wondering like Is that real
or is this more proof that evidence was planted because it is a singular hair attached to like not even like on top of
the bumper but like the side like back of her car and everyone's like okay she hits him she drives to his house in a
blizzard then drives like all over looking for him and then to also still in a blizzard also still in a blizzard
and then she's driving to Jen's house and then she's back at his house and then she's there and then she's at her
parents house and then they tow her car to the sallyport and in that time yes maybe the hair froze on but then they
also bring it to the heated sallyport garage so everything can melt off and that's the picture they have of the hair
is like it's on the car and so that's the one thing that didn't melt off like it just seems so unlikely it seems like
magic it's not impossible clearly but like but is it I don't know is like what does the data mean how does it all come
together how does this puzzle fit if it does yeah because like I've spiraled every which way I can about this case
like did he go into the house and something happened call it a fight call it an accident whatever and then maybe
like did they tell him to like get out of here not realizing how bad off he was and then he collapsed in the snow but
like that doesn't explain all of it did Karen really hit him accidentally or otherwise and then the investigation was
super sloppy Maybe even corrupt Proctor trying to make like an easy win and then
everything else was about covering up the nonsense but that also doesn't really explain everything nothing
explains all of it so if I were a juror I don't know what happened in the we morning hours of January
29th but the way this has unfolded has left so much room for reasonable doubt if an investigating agency can do
everything I just talked to about and secure a conviction honestly that's the scariest freaking idea to me it's scary
to let someone get away with killing someone too don't get me wrong but like my God we have to set some kind of
standard right like yeah so many jobs have a like bare minimum requirement like if you are going to put someone on
trial and take their entire life away you should have to at least do your job the right way like am I am I am I crazy
no like it's it seems like of an easy ask but but I don't but I don't think I don't know that everyone
agrees I want to say some people might but not everyone because a jury didn't fully agree with me so after receiving a
fire hose of information for nearly two months the jury ends up telling the judge that they cannot reach a verdict
they send a note to judge Beverly kenon saying that they are deadlocked after 3 days she doesn't accept the first one
she's like this is 3 days we've been here for 6 weeks get in there and try it again they send a few other notes they
send one asking a question and then on July 1st 2024 after deliberating for less than a week they send a final note
to the judge that says despite our rigorous efforts we continue to find ourselves at an impass and kenon quickly
declares a mistrial citing a hung jury so prosecutors say that they fully plan to go after Karen again I mean
clearly there were some people on the jury who saw what they saw we'll see you back in court basically but after this
some people from the jury were like whoa whoa whoa that's not the whole story in
the weeks after the trial Jackson says that at least five jurors approached him indicating that the jury wasn't hung on
all three charges in fact they had agreed to equit Karen on two of the three murder and leaving the scene with
injury or death it was just the manslaughter while operating under the influence of alcohol charge that they
couldn't agree on so after they come forward to Jackson and the media Karen's lawyers moved to have those charges the
ones that they agreed on thrown out claiming that like the jury had unanimously agreed on those to acquit
her specifically of those charges and trying her again would constitute Double Jeopardy obviously that's not cool with
the prosecution and this fight goes to the state's highest court but the ruling is the same no matter how far far up
they go the issue is that the jury never wrote that down and submitted that as a
verdict so it wasn't an official it didn't count right so judge Beverly kon's ruling stands AKA anti bevs
Because by the way we haven't even gotten into that potential conflict of interest that atie Bev might have in the
case there's been a lot of talk alleging that she's also cozied up to the Albert
and mcabe families and listen there are some maybe receipts here so first off according to the Vanity Fair
article on Reed's case Bev's brother represented Brian Albert's brother when he went to trial for a motor vehicle
homicide case and then he went to jail for like 6 months and then there are these screenshots of a text combo
between turtle boy he's back again and who he says was Jen McCabe's brother-in-law Shawn McCabe apparently
turtleboy asked Shawn if the mccabes had direct line to the judge and Shawn allegedly responded by saying quote atie
Bev who cite Cottage do you think we're going to bury your corpse under later end quote now the alleged conflicts run
so deep that the defense actually asked anti Bev or judge kenon to recuse herself from the case altogether but she
wouldn't step aside she says that she did not know Shawn and that she had never socialized with any of the
Witnesses in this case so there was no lack of impartiality this is so much it is but in the end she declared a
mistrial right so here we go again and even in this new trial judge kenon will be the judge again and here's the thing
post this last trial and pre this new one stuff has been just as wild as the last time around as of this recording
Karen's lawyers are still trying to argue the double jeopardy claim in federal court Karen
also been busy she has been meeting with supporters across the country she's hoping to raise money for blood and DNA
testing to be done on carpeting that was thrown out of the Albert's home after it
was sold and her defense team has found themselves in the hot seat as well judge
kenon expressed what she called grave concern over the fact that prosecutors say they found evidence that two what we
were told were impartial Witnesses the one who said that Jon's injuries weren't consistent with being struck by a car
well they were actually paid around $23,000 by the defense even though one of them who people online are calling
crash Daddy he said on the stand that the defense hadn't paid him anything now technicality maybe because I guess he
was paid a month after he testified to that but he was paid nonetheless so like I'm side eyeing everyone in this case
you guys including Michael morisy the da bringing the charges against Karen it's
worth noting that this isn't the only case that his office has handled that people are questioning he and his office
are getting a lot of heat for how they handled the death of Sandra burchmore and I could go on for hours about her
case but like quick Cliff Notes Sandra was part of the police explorers program oh mhm what you're going to hear me
mention if you come on tour and in this program she met a cop who allegedly groomed her when she was a kid had a
sexual relationship with her when she was under 16 well he is now accused of killing her while she was pregnant with
his child and the accusation is that he staged her death to look like a suicide Morris's office ruled that it was a
suicide but Federal authorities stepped in years later and indicted the officer on charges that he killed Sandra so her
case is one of like the most egregious examples of abuse connected to the police explorer programs like this will
be I'm like like vowing this will be an episode one day but like I continue to look into it but anyway morisy has been
under pressure from all angles as both of these cases unfold in Canon for Karen's retrial the prosecution has
brought in someone new Hank Brennan is coming in to lead the team now this guy represented Infamous Boston mob boss
Whitey buer during his federal trial so to say that he's a heavy hitter is an understatement and it's clear that they
plan to to come out swinging in October prosecutors requested records from Karen's Dad's cell from around the time
of John's death which they say shows alleged proof of her calling her dad at around 1:30 in the morning the night
that John died now police had gotten a search warrant for Karen's phone earlier but investigators were working on
removing I guess like privileged like conversation she was having with her lawyer before handing the records over
to the prosecution so that's why this is just coming up now and while we were finalizing this episode prosecutors
dropped the list of who they plan to call to the stand in trial number two and Karen's dad is now on the list this
time so it seems like they might zero in on those calls now the federal investigation into Jon's death and the
handling of the case was closed as of March 4th 2025 the federal investigation loomed over Karen's case for more than a
year but it did not result in any charges which I think might be something for the prosecution to use however the
internal affairs investigation into Michael Proctor wrapped in January and then he went in front of the
Massachusetts State Police trial board three times and in March while they waited on the trial board's decision his
family like broke their silence they really had not been talking this whole time but his wife Elizabeth Proctor and
Michael sister Courtney Proctor released a statement saying that even though his
texts were regrettable same word that he used he was just venting to friends like
during a stressful situation they say that their family has been tormented and harassed since those texts went public
and they think the attention on Proctor has been the defense's attempt to distract from the person who's actually
on trial and that's Karen Reed in the end I don't think the statement helped because on March 19th Proctor was fired
State Police said that the trial board recommended that they fire him and then the state police agreed citing those
very texts about Karen and drinking on the job his family said that by firing Proctor the trial board was unfairly
exploiting and scapegoating one of their own and I think like no we probably should just hold people accountable just
a thought now we reached out to a whole lot of people in this case like scrolling through our reporter Taylor's
call log it looks like scrolling through a Boston area phone book but the only one who responded was Greg
who is representing Brian and Nicole Albert and their kids he said that he would send us a statement and he did so
Bren I'm going to have you read it the Alberts identified a real estate agent and prepared to sell their home
months before the death of Jon O'Keefe this information along with the location and history of their dog was provided to
and investigated by law enforcement including the US attorney's office the Alberts had nothing to do with the death
of Jon O'Keefe there's no conspiracy any suggestion otherwise is fabricated now we've told you a lot
about the case against Karen Reed in this episode but I do want to make sure that John's name isn't forgotten like
this is becoming about Karen so much and about the police department as a whole but at the center of all of this where
this all started was with Jon's death and no matter who killed Jon or how he died there is a loving family that
misses him and that actually is one like beautiful part of the documentary early
on in episode one they play home videos of him and like I feel like I got to see
who he was in like a completely different way than this like 2D version we've gotten of him so far so before we
wrap up I want to tell you a little bit more about John so John known as Johnny or JJ by
his family and friends grew up in brain tree massach assetts he's one of three children in a middle class Italian and
Irish family in a middle class Italian and Irish town just outside of Boston he graduated from Northeastern University
in Boston and then he went on to earn his master's degree in criminal justice from UMass and he was the kind of guy
who never missed opening day at Fenway Park John had been a Boston police officer for 16 years and was loyal to
his fellow officers and he especially loved being an uncle to his niece and nephew and he became their guard
Guardian after his sister died of brain cancer and then their father died of a heart attack John's niece and nephew
have been left to mourn another parent figure and they're now being raised by John's parents who after the mistrial
filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Karen they also filed it against the waterfall bar and CF McCarthy's seeking
$50,000 in Damages for pain suffering an emotional distress but a judge has put all of that on hold until Karen's
Criminal trial is over at its core this is a case that presents the question of whether a crack in an SUV tail light is
cut and dry evidence of murder or if it exposed a crack in the system A system that was ripe for a coverup that spanned
agencies across Massachusetts now I've talked a lot about the details in this case and how those details have been
interpreted by a million different people a million different ways I know there's a lot to process I mean even the
actual jury on this case couldn't see a clear path for forward and listen I know
crime junkies always love to go a layer deeper and I want us to be like locked in together on this retrial which is set
to begin on April 1st so to do that I want to do something new over on YouTube we've set up a new page crime junkie
jury we are going to be streaming the trial and discussing what's going on every day with you so we've got Brandy
Churchwell like I said she's almost become an expert in this case don't feel like you have to know the ins and outs
to like step in this is the whole idea she'll like walk you through it help you know who you're supposed to know help
you know the backstory and this is one you're going to want to follow because I have a feeling we are in for another
long ride [Music]

John O’Keefe, a 16-year veteran of the Boston Police Department, died of blunt force trauma and hypothermia on January 29, 2022, after being found on a fellow Boston Police Officer’s front lawn during a blizzard. His girlfriend, Karen Read, is charged with allegedly backing into John with her SUV, and leaving him to die in the cold after a night of drinking. But her defense team poses a different theory – a massive cover-up spanning law enforcement agencies across Massachusetts. Karen’s first case ended in a mistrial on July 1, 2024. Her second trial is set to begin in April 2025.

Join us in watching the trial and get daily recaps on @CrimeJunkieJury hosted by Brandi Churchwell, only on YouTube. We know you are following this case as closely as we are, and we can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the second trial!

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Check out these other great crime channels covering the Karen Read Trial: @CrimeJunkieJury Crime Junkie Jury Reaches a SHOCKING Verdict! | The Trial of Karen Read https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvdHXF7ApHk @FormanLaw Top LAWYER Reveals Shocking Truth About Karen Read Case https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Q9uWS_WKg @LawyerYouKnow Real Lawyer Reacts: Judge Holds Brennan's Feet to the Fire! #karenread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUVYLayXKmA @LawAndCrime Bryan Kohberger Court Docs Reveal Disturbing New Info in Idaho Murders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB4Mk4Kxsy4 @LawAndCrime Prime Crime: Karen Read Accused of Killing Boyfriend After Night of Partying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Hz9hHitWE @Kimbyrleigha What REALLY Happened To Nikki McCain?! Updates & Everything You Need To Know! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-20kL846C48 @CoffeehouseCrime Streamer Brutally Robbed, another Murdered While Livestreaming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyxOtcFC9Es

Brief Summary

Karen Reed's trial for John O'Keefe's murder reveals twists, evidence disputes, and conspiracy theories, culminating in a mistrial after jury deadlock.

Key points

The Night of the Incident. Karen Reed and John O'Keefe's night out ends in tragedy, leading to a frantic search.
Emergency Response. The frantic 911 call reveals the chaos as Karen and friends try to save John.
Madness Begins. The madness surrounding the trial escalates even before it begins, with pre-trial hearings becoming a spectacle.
Chaos Outside the Courthouse. Protests outside the courthouse create a chaotic atmosphere, reminiscent of a combat zone.
The Mysterious Phone Activity. Jen's phone activity raises questions about her involvement in John's disappearance.
Conflicting Testimonies. Witnesses provide conflicting accounts of what happened the night John went missing.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I've never been so wrong.

Reflecting on the trial's unexpected twists.

0:13WatchMar 31, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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