Fred & Rose West (Part 4) | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is [Music] morbid this is more bid y ah oh we're almost done everybody oh my
goodness what a terrible guys this is a terrible case it really is but you know what we're on the last part of it okay
okay and we're going to at least get a little bit of something at the end we'll get a resolution I like that that's all
we're looking for in life you know was a resolution cool yeah do you have any any
um [ __ ] for the top not really I'm really excited to see uh the ghost movie that's exciting theaters
that is exciting in June I'll be with you so excited about that very psych isn't there's like a big reveal people
are saying everyone's assuming there's going to be a reveal of what's happening to
Papa um cuz we're going to get some lore in there of course what is happening to
big p I'm dying to know what's happening to Papa it did say in the trailer this is not a story about death and I was
like like what the [ __ ] does that mean rebirth so that's I'm who knows who knows I'm I'm here to know when I'm
supposed to the lore runs so deep it's so deep yeah I'm constantly learning new lore and you're constantly like I'm like
wait what I'm constantly sharing new lore with you that I found sometimes I'm like wait who is the dad it's very
creative it is really creative and it's cool that it's like a band like yeah like it's fun cuz it's not like a
typical band it's fun to tell love I love how much you love it I love how much I love it your little eyes are so
bright right now they're twinkling I don't I was like your little [ __ ] eyes your little beady [ __ ] eyes are
just twinking your little beady [ __ ] eyes no um but what do you got you know what I'm on a Sourdough
Journey as everyone in my life knows it's on a Sourdough it's overtaken my life Drew went to his mom's yesterday
and he was like yeah Ash's on a bread journey and she thought that was the funniest thing a bread Journey a bread
Journey but I wanted to shout out like all the weirdos for helping me because I had this beautiful loaf that I made and
then I cut into it and I said oror or what happen here cuz it's it's so involved but one weirdo in particular I
don't know if I should say their name or not cuz they like didn't say if I could
you know who you are sent me an entire video on like how she does her my God s and she's a fellow Massachusetts girly
what a badass [ __ ] and it was so nice like she was like okay let me me tell you what I do and she explained it so
like like cohesively and then another weirdo who's a like a head Baker at a bakery was like like walked me through
this whole process sent me like this massive message of like epth what to do and it was like so helpful and that was
among like 50 other messages that I got from people like just trying to help see
that's the that's the nice part of social media it is and that's the only part that I pay attention to that's the
only part I like to be honest much when things like that happen you're like well [ __ ] this is what it's for
let's come together over bread come together over bread sour dough with me but yeah I I'm really excited so I I
tried again I love that and I have two loaves in the fridge right now but I proofed them last night on the count
don't worry guys for close to like 11 hours cuz I keep it pretty cold in my house so it's okay to bulk ferment for
that long listen to meing terms and stuff just being a do girly it's really fun I if you want to go on a little
journey with yourself and like you have the time it's [ __ ] fun like and you have the
time takes time time a lot of time yeah I was like I don't think I'll be able to
do this when I have children but we'll try but you know what who knows give it a shot you know um and then in other
news pretty soon we're going to be releasing our bonus episode so get ready for that we have been listening to the
audible original title desperate deadly widows with four women authors so like which is so [ __ ] cool and different I
love that yeah and it like when I saw four different authors I was like wow like what was that process like but
listening to the to the title it's so cohesive is it feels like it was written by one person it's like they became a
super author together they became Mega author and it's like Mega desk and on the office Mega off Mega author I love
it and they all just created this cohesive Tale and like each each woman in the book is
like just like has like such a distinct personality like I feel like it's almost
like like it's not the same subjects at all but it's almost like sex in the city
where you're like oh I'm a Miranda yeah you can like pick out who you are in this yeah so we're going to be
discussing that like way more at length um adnauseum if adium like book club style yeah and we're going to have a
special guest who you guys know and love yeah you know them already you love them
it's going to be a lot of fun they are like the perfect guest for this title literally the perfect guest and I love
them so much I'm sorry if you guys hear my stomach growling she she's been loud she has what I said something earlier in
your stomach was like you also might be able to hear my chest rumbling um it's like crackling
yeah you're still going through it yeah I woke up this morning and I thought I was much better and then well I am yeah
but my every time I cough like afterwards it's like a a r crumbling like settles like rum it's like a
thunder clap yeah it's like a it's like a crackle in of my chest you know it It's Hard Out Here in these streets in
the world is it is everybody's getting sick it's cold and flu say and you know what me this story is not going to help
anybody from not feeling sick because you're going to feel sick but it's the end it's and it's
there's a resolution at the end at least some kind of resolution it's not like they
I'll tell you right now they don't get away with it and go riding off into the sunset never to be heard from again so
don't worry about that they don't somehow get off on a technicality no one's getting out of jail good so good
good good so don't worry about that they're gone bye [ __ ] that's what it is I was trying to think of the the Jack
mannequin lyrics of the resolution song GL in the dark as I search for the resolution that's how I feel I love it I
need some light in the dark yeah I'm not going to give it to you for a little while so I apologize for that so when we
last left you uh we were talking about the really um horrific murder of Shirley andne Robinson yeah and um I had said
that it was it was over a year before they next killed again because again they would go through these long periods
of time where we assume they didn't do they didn't kill anyone but uh nobody's entirely convinced of that yeah I can't
say that I am yeah and also it sounds like like police were starting to kind of like they were at least they were
there more often so I'm sure it was harder to for sure but I wonder if there's other areas that that we could
find victims in yeah I agree now like so many of the other victims of Fred and rosemary West 16-year-old Alison
Chambers 16 had come from a troubled upbringing and had actually spent her early years
living between her parents who had separated when she was very young and she ended up going into different like
facilities where she would be living that's so sad yeah now Allison was described as a vulnerable girl from a
disturbed background that's how all the media described her and when she was 15 and a half years old she was placed at
Jordan's Brook um now according to soon Allison quote frequently withdrew into a
fantasy life and she composed romantic poetry and liked to draw pictures of an image imaginary Farm where she dreamed
of living that's so which is just so gutr devastating just like ret readed into that world I want to be clear again
once again I'm going to say it before all of these um entries into this series a lot of uh trigger warning for a lot of
sexual sadism and you know sexual assaults um murder with sexual assaults I mean it's really bad and in this one
in particular we're going to get a little bit into their own children oh try I'm not tapping into a lot of those
details for my own stuff but I mean you can honestly you can read um the book that I gave you we're going to we're
going to um link it here and Marie book I encourage you to read that to get it right from her because she's the one who
lived it right I'm not going to go into the nitty-gritty of everything but I am going to let you know something because
they end up murdering another one of their children so that will be in here God um now so
she so Allison was sound s like she was just living this you know tough life tough upbringing and she was just
retreating into a fantasy world right you know and and the fact that she had this very specific Farm like imaginary
farm that she had where she just dreamed of it being a reality and she lived there is just gut-wrenching it really is
um and what's even worse is Fred and rosemary West specifically pre on that one aspect of
her life that makes a lot of sense that they did but because she would ret treat
often into her fantasy world and she would write poetry which honestly is a sign of intelligence and like Beauty and
you know everything right in the world a great personality to be around kids are
are usually pretty rough so she was ruthlessly bullied and mocked at the um live at the girls' home the other girls
would mock her which I'm like girls let's be nice to other girls yeah you're all going through it so exactly look get
through together instead of against each other this left her leaving even more isolated and More Lonely um so she
unable to make friends at school she did have one friend okay who was a teenager
named an and this teenager lived at 25 Cromwell Street yeah now since Allison was you know Wicked lonely PR prone to
Fantasy she was easy prey for Fred and Rose who had a knack of knowing exactly what to say to manipulate girls just
like Allison who had gone through what she had gone through on her various visits to the house Rose would tell
Allison that she could relate she knew exactly how this this girl felt she gave her gifts at one point she gave her a
gold colored necklace with her name on it and showed the girl a picture of a farm and told her that she and Fred
owned that farm and Allison could live there once she moved out of Jordan Brook what the [ __ ] now it turned out that
that photo was just an image from a Real's brochure but they knew it was enough to
draw Allison even deeper into their world and Fred was equally as [ __ ] up and you know manipulative and his regular
self leaving her you know he would lavish her with praise and attention he would give her a lot of attention which
is what she was looking positive attention she wasn't getting that anywhere else and when she would go back
to school she would tell the other girls she'd met an older man who gave her all
kinds of gifts and they were in love oh no now from the moment they'd met her Fred and Rose had made all kinds of
promises to Allison and the things they would give her and do for her when she turned 17 and could leave Jordans Brook
one day in early August 1979 just days before her 17th birthday Allison quietly packed all her belongings and ran away
from Jordan's Brook oh no presumably to 25 Cromwell Street she wrote a letter to
her mother before she left and she explained that she'd been invited to live with quote a very homely family I
look after their five children and do some of their housework they have a child the same age as me who accepts me
as a big sister and we get on great the family owns flats and I share with the oldest sister oh my God to think that
she thought that she was finally going to get this life that she's wanted for almost 17 years and that they went out
of their way to convince her of that and to prey on the little hopes and Fantasies that she had they're so [ __ ]
up it's beyond comprehension it really is now when Allison's body was later exhumed from the garden at 25 Cromwell
Street there was a large purple belt wrapped around her head and under her jaw oh God the prosecutor told the jury
at Rose's trial quote the belt found around her head clamping closed her jaw can only have been placed in position to
stop her screaming oh my God the purpose of such restraint must have been to permit abuse of the type experienced by
the others oh it's so dark like the others Fred had kept several of the small bones from Allison's hands and
feet now when Allison failed to show up for work the following day at the training
school a missing person's report was filed and it listed Allison as quote an absconder from care an investigation was
opened but when Allison's mother told them she had gotten a letter from Allison that said she'd gone to work as
a Livin Nanny with a lovely family investigators didn't ask any questions and they closed the case right now while
the victims of Fred and Rose West like the outside victims of Fred and Rose Mary West they've been the focus of
every story rightfully yeah of this it's worth keeping in mind at this point that
after the murder of Charmaine they still had four children living at home with them and sometimes that can you can
forget that just because there's so much other awful [ __ ] going on you can't fathom that there's children here no but
there are four as the daughter of Fred and Reena and Marie received the brunt of the horrific physical emotional and
sexual abuse but the others were completely aware of it and often saw bore witness to it and also had to deal
with it and they also had to be witness to Rose's sex work or the abuse of other
children yeah they saw a lot and they experienced a lot themselves they went they all went through a lot hell and
Marie's story I'm warning you right now is one of the most horrific things I have ever read in my entire life I
believe hands down Bar None you read her book read it but I'm telling you right now
she I can't I can't explain I can't explain to you what it's horrible it's horrible and I can't believe that she
was able to even put pen to paper to talk about it like I give her a lot of credit for being able to it was like
some kind of healing experience or I hope it was I don't know how you can heal from all of that but hope that it
was some kind of cathartic experience like I'm sure it was painful but I hoped some kind of like help came out of it
for her um I mean there was a very big inappropriate Focus on like very deviant and very like demonic sexuality in that
house you know what I mean like it was it's not like there was like a they were living a different lifestyle you know
what I mean than like than the like the mainstream you know what I mean like this was s like sadistic [ __ ] yeah it's
like this is not this is totally inappropriate totally beyond the the you could ever think and it was incredibly
damaging to these children incredibly damaging these are their parents no matter what like
things it's just like they they will like also in some ways think this is just how parents are well yeah you know
it's like they it's very hard to for kids to understand that like their situation with their parents is not what
everybody else is going through yeah you just assume they're just some of it they're looking at like I just have to
deal with this until I leave that like this is just life and then like you know they manipulated them so hard that like
some of them were like trying to like defend them later like but they're their kids you know I mean like it's one of
those things it's like that's just such a different situation I can't even fathom it I really can't no I really
can't but their daughter May wrote later if Dad had any ambition at all for any of his daughters it was simply that we
should breed and have at least as many babies as he and Mama had done and like why like yeah you don't victim yeah yeah
he I mean they got to they got to make their own victims essentially wow yeah now once anarie was old enough she had
moved out of the house and Fred's eye shifted towards his younger daughters Heather and may he would often make
comments about their bodies or joke about and this is awful quote it being a father's right to take his daughter's
virginity oh my God that yeah you want to throw up the girls thought this was a joke because he was so crude and he was
so crass and so lewd and so disgusting all the time and he would say these disgusting things and they would just be
like oh that's just like who whatever like he just says this disgusting [ __ ] God oh my God but eventually they
realized he was serious oh he was sexually abusing like he was a horrible [ __ ] Predator monster yeah um and
like he when he was saying that he meant it when they were in their teen years Fred began treating his daughters
basically as he would treat any other girl around him or woman or young woman around him uh especially when he was a
teenager cuz remember we said any woman that was near him he would just grab and
grope at them he would do that with his daughters oh my God now may did her best
to hide the abuse and the emotional effects from the world she just tried to retreat into herself but Heather seemed
to have a much harder time with it yeah obviously like I I don't even know how any of them were functioning and by the
time she was in her mid teens Heather had become very withdrawn and very Sullen she never smiled or laughed like
she just didn't have joy how could you and eventually she started acting out at school and when she turned 16 years old
she had left school cuz she had found a job working as a um on a cleaning crew at a Holiday Camp okay not a glamorous
job not well-paying but the location of the camp meant that she would be able to
get the [ __ ] away from Fred and Rose so it was her ticket out and it would be for a few months so she was like get me
gone I don't give a [ __ ] what you need me to do just get me out of this house and it was probably some kind of plan
where she was thinking like I can save up this much money and go on to the next thing now unfortunately the day before
she was about to leave for the camp the job fell through no and she was devastated devastated well you must just
she must have just been sitting there being like what the [ __ ] is this life and she must have been sitting there
before it fell through being like thinking fantasizing about this new life she could have away from them yeah you
start picturing just like think something's coming you exactly like Allison with the farm it's like and and
we can all relate to the idea of like when you think you something's happening and you're like oh I'm so excited for
this thing and then it falls through it's awful and it's in most of us only know that on like the most micro of
scales of so bummed oh like I get to meet this cool you know like I get to meet my idol like you know I mean and
you're like oh I'm so excited it's going to be so much fun and then all of a sudden it falls through and you're like
oh like I pictured myself meeting this doing this thing but then you think of all the weight that came like with this
of like it's my escape from my of the incredibly abusive toxic hous measurable trauma that I've been facing my entire
life it's her ticket to like personal autonomy yes and it's like like when I read that I was like I feel it in my gut
yeah like the gut punch of that oh I feel so bad now the next day June 19th 1987 may say said goodbye to Heather and
left for school when she came home she expected to find her sister still upset but Heather was gone now may asked her
parents where she went and Fred told her that Heather had received a call from the camp and the job was back on so
Heather packed up a few things and got the [ __ ] out of there now this was supposed to be a positive thing but may
said something didn't hit right for immediately these kids as much as like you know they're their parents and they
just kind of dealt with this stuff they know their parents too they know what their parents are all of them had their
parents numbers every single [ __ ] one of them well and they've also seen people come on as like nannies and then
just [ __ ] disappear forever and they've heard [ __ ] they've heard [ __ ] there's no way they're not hearing
screaming screaming crying like horrible stuff they know what their parents are capable of they've experienced it
they've seen it they've witnessed it they've heard it they've they experienced it personally right and
they're probably so much more connected than even like a typical sibling Duo because they have that shared experience
tra and so may knew immediately something's wrong here her she said her father seemed almost cheerful about
sharing the news but she said Rose seemed very upset about Heather leaving that's her daughter which Fred explained
away as her being just disappointed that Heather that you know like she thought Heather was going to be staying but now
she's not so she said that she's leaving was Rose involved with the sexual abuse
of her kids in way of participating or was that just Fred um she definitely she was involved in at the very
least like a bystander okay of letting it happen because like and again some of the things that were done to some of
these kids and like an Marie in particular was out in the open open for everybody to see okay and it was
horrific I mean how do you not step in and protect your kid cuz you're a [ __ ] monster Rose is a monster she's
a monster right along with Fred she gets no nothing I'm just like how do you not
have that motherly Instinct after carrying a baby in your womb for nine [ __ ] months I don't get it and then
to let a man do that and to stand there and do nothing like yeah I mean like that's your kid cuz I didn't I didn't
read too far into like how she participated yeah but she certainly is not at the very least she didn't stop it
and she's certainly not a a passive person in any of that she's very much actively at least in some way shape or
form that's so heinous she's [ __ ] terrible um so the West children had spent again their entire lives being
manipulated lied to and abused by their parents especially their father so even though they knew he wasn't telling the
truth about Heather they knew this was a lie but it's just like what can they do
they also knew you don't push himh so we're not going to push him cuz then you'll be in the same position yeah and
they're like who knows what's going to happen now in the days and weeks after that Fred and Rose went out of their way
to reinforce their story that Heather had simply gone away and would be coming back she was going to be coming back
like you said it was only mon this is forever they would receive phone calls in the night apparently from some
drunken woman that they claimed was Heather and then they would get an an argument on the phone and hang up with
her and the children were like okay I guess she's all right and she's going to be home like they couldn't figure out
they were playing a twisted game but after a few months they became concerned that Heather was not going to be coming
back and in an attempt to quiet their concerns Fred and Rose continued the charade that simply Heather had decided
not to come home now she she went to this this camp and now wants to stay for longer and you know in fact she's so mad
at us now like she's had enough of this house apparently she's like they decided
to [ __ ] all over and be like she's just like you know she's turned on us whatever she's turned on us and now she
doesn't want to have any contact with us at all gee I wonder why if that was actually the case may knew this was a
lie but what was she going to do but but and she was like honestly all my parents
did was lie to me right like they just lied and manipulated so she's like what else is new I can't say anything I don't
know what to say to anybody like all the kids were handling it differently so they all had to retreat in themselves
now Heather never came home obviously and may never saw her sister again and in time May and her siblings would learn
that their sister didn't leave for a job in 1987 but was in fact killed by their
parents now in this in his interview with police Fred told investigators that he's such a [ __ ] [ __ ] this is
their new story he told investig ators that they thought that their daughter was actually a lesbian and was planning
to leave with a woman on the night she went missing so he said Heather told him and he quotes if you don't let me
[ __ ] go I'll give all the kids acid and they'll all jump off the church roof and kill
themselves seems legit seems legit right and Fred's claimed that that sent him into a rage and he grabbed her by the
neck and began to choking her and he told detectives I can't even remember what happened what happened but the next
minute she's blue that no incorrect yeah he then said when she was dead he dismembered hea
Heather's body and buried her remains in the garden his daughter dismembered his
daughter now may says she never believed that story for a [ __ ] second also now
I'm just trying to tally it I'm pretty sure he's killed three of his kids at this point or two because he didn't kill
Charmaine but he's killed um Shirley was pregnant and an and an yeah um so the fact that we can't even tally up
how many of his own children that he's killed several pregnant with his child and like
we're talking like eight months pregnant with brutally tortured and murdered in fact in in both cases he waited very
long the pregnancy yeah yeah that's a whole different pathology yeah that's something that should be studed that's a
something's something's happening there wow yeah wow now may never believe this story either no and neither did
investigators investigators were like [ __ ] off detectives had two theories as to Heather's death both e easily
plausible in the first they believe Fred attempted to sexually assault his daughter and which she resisted he began
choking her yep um this theory was supported by the fact that Heather was buried naked uh like the other victims
she had no clothing no clothing was found in the grave also like the other victims there were several bones missing
from her hands and feet as well really the second theory is that Heather had become a liability and they feared that
she would or maybe she threatened to tell someone about the abuse that had been occurring in the home for well over
a decade right now regardless of what the motive for her murder was Heather would be the final body buried in the
west garden and it would be her disappearance that would actually bring an end to their Killing Spree okay now
it's unclear why and this is really wild there was an 8year Gap in the murders between Alice
aliceon Chambers and Heather really eight years and what they think is it's entirely possible that they killed other
women and buried them elsewhere because they also were frankly running out of room at their own place run out of room
in the basement and we're now filling the garden and I don't I don't know like what the neighbor situation is like how
close they are to other they're pretty close so it's like they don't have a ton of space so I would bet a lot of money
that there are other victims around that they will eventually hopefully find now
what is clear though is that Heather's murder was definitely different from the other victims as well like Anna McFall
it seems that Heather was likely killed in their eyes to solve a problem that they saw you know being discovered they
didn't want to be found out right um this was an entirely like one of their sexual sadist like killing for sexual
gratification murders um whenever anyone would ask about Heather in the years after this Fred and Rose would give some
variation of the unexpected employment or the lesbian lover story which typically satisfied whoever was asking
and then The Disappearance was just never truly investigated at first it really is so awful that that was their
way of like obviously it's not degrading to be a lesbian I'm not saying that their view they're like oh let's let's
say She's a Lesbian cuz that's a bad thing like you can tell that's why they're doing it be like oh she's just a
[ __ ] lesbian yeah they were like uh and he's basically saying she was a lesbian and she was violent yeah and
like I had to kill her to save us all like I had to get rid of this ridiculous this violent lesbian and it's like it's
like you're degrading her even in death yeah like no now Fred and Rose had gotten away with so many horrific crimes
over the years that they probably assumed Heather's murder was just one more girl that no one was going to miss
their own child shaking my head right now that might have been true had it not been for the courage of one of Fred's
sexual assault victims who eventually came forward with her story and began an in investigation that would literally
unearth the secrets of 25 Cromwell Street in the spring of 1992 just a week a few weeks after the death of Fred's
father a 13-year-old girl who lived in the neighborhood divulged to a friend that Fred West had sexually assaulted
her but she didn't want to go to the police 13 years old he's a [ __ ] monster I hope he wherever he is I hope
he is just living in a cyclic Loop Purgatory [ __ ] brutal torture I really do that he doesn't enjoy yeah exactly
well he didn't I don't think he enjoyed it I think he enjoyed inflicting um but this girl's friend sat
with the information for a few days before eventually going to her mother who in turn informed a local police
officer now the tip about the wests prompted an investigation which was led by veteran detective Hazel Savage which
is such a cool name love it um who this this investigator this detective had experience working sex crimes and crimes
involving children so perfect person to get involved in this wow at first the case seemed a little straightforward you
know a single incident of sexual assault horrific crime but one that they could easily just go forward with yeah but the
more she dug into the family's background the scarier and stranger that the story became but it all started with
a story told by one of the West's children now when the complaint against Fred and Rose was initially made the
children were immediately removed from the home and placed in foster care which I was like my God that should have
happened a long time ago yeah for real while they were there one of the children told one of the social workers
that their father often threaten them with violence saying if you ever talked about what went on in the house they
would be killed and buried under the patio just like their sister Heather so he would literally say that to his
children like I'll [ __ ] kill you and bury you under the patio like Heather oh my God these poor kids I can't the your
brain can't even like put that together of you will be buried next to your sister my daughter whom I killed
who I killed like yeah my brain is just all over the place right now and also to me that puts a lot
more wait on the idea that Heather might have said I'm going to I'm leaving and I'm telling or they had some weird idea
that she was going to Ked absolutely I agree with you now Fred would later claim that was just a
joke you know a funny dad joke you know and he explained that Heather had run off with a female lover she was a
lesbian everybody that's what he keeps trying to claim but by then the story had changed so many times and the
comments about the patio made everything seem way more suspicious so in her initial interview Rose was Cy about
Heather's disappearance and whenever she was asked directly why she hadn't reported her daughter missing yeah she
would answer I don't know or I don't remember she's a I can't like [ __ ] off she's an [ __ ] after repeated
questioning Rose finally said I can remember now why I didn't pursue Heather because things pointed to her being a
lesbian meanwhile [ __ ] Rose herself is interested in women too so like what is your [ __ ] problem here that's what
it is it's all this [ __ ] up Loop of being of hating themselves yeah and taking that hate out on other people
yeah it's totally putting it out on other people it's just making me so mad that
they're like they're putting that on her afterwards and acting like it's a bad thing when Rose very much came on to
other women like in aggressively so like such an aggressive Manner and like I'm just like and now you're saying like oh
I didn't report her missing cuz she was a lesbian well it's literally a mother saying I didn't report my child's
missing because she was a lesbian yeah oh I'm sorry do you think that makes you look better right you [ __ ] [ __ ]
like [ __ ] you Rose and and sitting there both yeah sitting there saying not knowing full well what happened to her
for her whole life how she was killed and where she is yeah like she's under [ __ ] porch you wake up every single
morning over your daughter's dead body like you [ __ ] pig yeah a true Pig like I'm so mad right now Pig like true
[ __ ] Hogs Pig just it's so filthy it is that's the thing it just gets worse and worse now
throughout the rest of 1992 and most of 1993 investigators continued building their case against Fred and eventually
he was charged with three counts of rape of a minor with rose being charged as an
accomplice wow but they remained free on bail pending the trial a rapist a child rapist a child rapist on
three [ __ ] counts where are they yeah like What's happen [ __ ] county is this now in the meantime the Department
of Social Services continued their search for Heather West interviewing the children as they went for more inter
information and the process was very slow goinging and at first it was yielding very little information but
eventually they had gathered enough testimony from the children because that's also a delicate process it's a
slow process you don't want to re-traumatize them right you're to go about it in the right way to personally
give you a testimony and a narrative of what they've gone through that's a lot even for grownass adults to do like
that's a lot and you're doing it while their life has just been like offended in so many ways exactly uh but they had
eventually gathered enough testimony from the children as well as other Witnesses and they strongly suspected
that there was vital evidence of Murder in the house on cromr Street yeah so in late February 1994 Hazel Savage applied
for a warrant that would allow investigators to search the West House and Garden for evidence of Heather West
and the application was granted Hazel Savage forever [ __ ] Savage now with the search
weren't secured it seemed only a matter of digging in the yard but investigators
had no idea where to look and the process was further Complicated by all the alterations that Fred had made to
the house and the extensive Stone workor in the backyard also when detectives came to
the house to present the warrant Rose and several of the older children did everything they could to stall the
investigators which would buy them enough time for Fred to come home and stop the search make a big fuss out of
everything again very clearly you have to know these are these older children remember what they' G they've abused
their whole lives and brainwashed and doing what they been taught to do like you know like absolutely right and they
and they probably did not believe for a second any of these claims you know they're terrified they've been scared
since they came into the world they've lived nothing but fear and horror and sadness and loneliness and isolation and
pain and just any horrible thing you can think of they've lived it their entire lives from the two people who are
supposed to provide the safest place for them yep so I give I put nothing on them
to have the kind of average reactions that any of us would have at all now despite their protests Rosen Fred's work
did begin on the west backyard on February 24th we have a [ __ ] warrant yeah they [ __ ] you
we're um and they began with the hole dug in the back corner and they were going to just slowly move forward the
work was very slow but they were very methodical about it and it was kept getting stalled and interrupted and
[ __ ] up and by Fred and Rose because they kept interfering and arguing with investigators whenever they could like
they just kept trying to [ __ ] it up I like okay cool why don't you go sit in jail then and await your [ __ ]
sentencing for your [ __ ] thing that you're on bail for right now you're interfering with an investigation you
should be arrested go sit in the [ __ ] jail cell but after a few days it did seem to have dawned on Fred that he
wasn't going to be able to stop this search and that they were going to discover a lot lot and he was like
they're also going to move into the house they have a warrant for the house as well so they're going into that
basement and they're going to find that so given that it probably seemed no use in keeping up the charade so Fred went
to detective Savage and told her they may as well bring him in and they hadn't found anything yet and he was like you
know what you might as well I mean they were going to as they LED Fred from the house now that he walked up to Hazel
Savage and said you might as well bring me in because you're going to find [ __ ]
and she was like awesome okay they led him to the H from the house to the police car and he made a large public
spectacle protesting screaming and being like I didn't kill her like acting like
he didn't just walk up to somebody and say you might as well bring me in cuz there's going to be a ton of stuff here
acting like it's not going to come out very soon when they're done with this whole excavation process that there are
however many numerous bodies outside and then when they move inside however many
bodies are inside that the basement is literally filled the point that you ran out of room like I don't really know
what you're doing here because all of this is coming to Light Within weeks well also they got him in the car closed
the door and he immediately confessed to murdering Heather yeah so there you go so he all the way to the car I didn't
kill her how dare you I didn't kill her gets in the car and he's like I did I killed her can you imagine and then he
literally looked at Savage and he said detective Savage you're digging in the wrong
place what A pompous [ __ ] what a [ __ ] [ __ ] and also like what the [ __ ] is wrong with you now it's possible
that Fred thought he could prevent the discovery of the other bodies if he confessed to the murder of Heather and
pointed detectives away from the other Graves he thought maybe they'll stop after they get heather yeah totally but
by then the stories had changed so many times and there was so much circumstantial evidence that detective
Savage and the others definitely thought that Fred wasn't telling the whole truth
so they were not going to stop at that um and at this point they have no idea what's in anyway what is in store for
them they're looking for Heather so he that's why he thought they'll stop after that how could they ever know that I
have 12 other bodies in this house meanwhile it's like dude what if they don't even find Heather first and they
find someone else well he was trying to lead them right to Heather so that they would stop like how do you even remember
now whatever Fred's motive his plan didn't work investigators continue digging in the back backyard obviously
because if you can kill your own child you are capable of a lot you [ __ ] idiot obviously also imagine living next
door to this and being like that was there the entire time how many 12 B I wave to all my neighbors constantly like
hey hey hey being like I just wave to that man every [ __ ] morning as he walked out and stood on top of his child
literally and countless other bodies and dismembered all these people too like their neighbors are probably sitting
there being like in that house at night sometimes when a light was on they were sawing a part a body yeah sometimes
their own child right and I was just going to sleep it would be so hard to stay like your house isn't even where
the horrors happened I feel like I would have such a hard time staying in my own
house after that I would have trouble staying in that neighborhood I would have trouble there was a lot of people
that had a lot of that was a that was a big source of just really bad vibes and really bad stuff like after this like
people were horrified that it was standing they were I mean looking at that house afterwards I can't imagine no
just knowing the horrors that happened there it's it's so dark dark isn't even the word for it because it's not just
murder it's sexual assault it's rape it's child abuse it's child sexual assault I mean that the things that were
found in that house are Beyond Comprehension and that just the energy surrounding the entire Place must have
just been abysmal yeah but the investigators kept digging up the backyard and within a week they
discovered not one but two sets of remains in the west backyard and a day later a third was discovered and the
third set of remains were identified as Heather West so they didn't even find Heather find her first now on February
27th 1994 Fred and Rose West were arrested for murder when the discovery in the garden was announced to the press
the police and missing persons Bureau was flooded with calls from around the country all with people loved ones who'd
gone missing and they were like potentially are they in that back have to make that call is my loved one in
that Garden like I can't even think of it how do you Bureau DET uh director Christopher Dre told the Press we have
been inundated with calls we have 19 lines and during yesterday they were engaged constantly as the search kept
going local residents watched in absolute horror these neighbors as one body after another was taken from this
home they just watched being like what the [ __ ] and at the same time stepen and
one of the other siblings West siblings began speaking to reporters to try to defend their
parents and in the interview with the Gloucester Echo Steph repeated the story about Heather running off and insisted
she was still alive and he said we would not live here if we thought they had murdered her no of course that tells you
the depth of yeah of how they're being manipulated abused here like they have been taught to be this way and they're
probably just desperate to think I would never have been in this house if I knew she was back there if I
knew that they killed my sister like but as the days went on it was getting harder to defend Fred and Rose and by
the end of the first week of March the ninth body had been removed from the west house and investigator and this was
within only a couple weeks my God and investigators expected to find more in the basement so that was just the
backyard nine bodies in the yard by that Point Fred had been forly charged with the murder of Heather and the murder of
former lodger Shirley Anne Robinson but detectives fully expected that there were going to be way more charges to
come the growing number of bodies and the very slow identification process led to a great deal of speculation
especially around The Disappearance of uh Mary basol many years earlier Mary's brother Peter said and this is so sad he
said quote in some ways it would be a relief if police identify her as it would stop the wondering and we would be
able to hold a funeral for her yeah oh like to have to think like that's I guess our best case scenario at this
point like that's so awful by mid-march all the bodies had been removed from the
house but there was still a lot of work to be done to identify all of them in the meantime Fred must have realized
that things were looking pretty bad because he started speaking to investigators wow mistakenly believing
that he could explain away the 12 dead bodies discovered in his house huh um but Fred's statements would eventually
prove pretty useful in the identification process luckily like through no he didn't mean to it just
happened um but he was really stupid he was not intelligent and he was really a bad liar to be honest like he was able
to lie to vulnerable people but when somebody's trying to detect one and looking for it as a trained in pretty
bad it um so his interviews were really vague they were sometimes confusing very
frustrating interviews he's also not dealing with younger people ex younger people who have already been through
things and are vulnerable and right will will believe a lot more because they've
been through a lot more these are seasoned investigative adults now by the end of March Fred had
been charged with nine murders and by the end of June when the victims had finally been identified he was formally
charged with 11 counts of first-degree murder 11 now while Fred kept talking to investigators about the women found in
the house Rose had also started talking to detectives and at that point interviews with the West's extended
family and several of the children revealed that she was not a [ __ ] unfortunate victim she was trying to
make herself that yeah the extended family and all the children were like uhuh no she's been time Rose was a very
willing participant in the violence um in she was the one that initiated it yeah she was just as bad now sensing
that she was soon going to be under investigation herself Rose turned on Fred wow which tells you exactly who she
is wow and started giving investigators any information that they asked for and hope that she might be spared this
really is so akin to my Myra immediately turn like wow which you're like cuz you're not [ __ ] human
you don't have human emotions you don't love each other that's not what that is you don't know what love is you're out
for number one and Rose's betrayal created further fractures in the family um as Steven responded the son Steven
responded to her betrayal by going to a reporter from the news of the world and giving an exclusive interview about what
he experienced and what he saw on June 30th Fred and Rose West appeared before a judge in Gloucester magistrates Court
um the first time they'd seen each other since Fred's arrest in February they were jointly charged with nine counts of
first-degree murder among other things why only nine if they found more bodies I think they were still trying to
identify people oh okay they were jointly charged with nine counsel a first-degree murder among various other
things and Fred was charged with the additional murders of Reena and Charmaine oh okay because he did those
his on his own presumably on his own well actually Rose killed Charmaine right that's what we think but but he
ended up I think he ended up I me not that I'm like should Char Char I'm just like wait a second I think it was just
going off of evidence but um as the and also remember he was the one who disposed of charmaine's body and
dismembered her yes so there was that I don't know what the lead up and again we
don't know the details of the leadup to that we presume that Rose rage uh killed that little girl oh
now as the summer turned to fall it must have occurred to Fred that things were really bad for him at this point yeah no
matter what he told investigators about supposedly consensual sexual encounter relation they all dead in your garden
dude accidents he kept saying they were all whoops you're so unfortunate yeah it's wild um but no matter what he was
saying he'd left a trail of bodies in three locations and no lies or excuses were going to be enough to spare him the
absolute harshest penalties available like he wasn't getting out of there like what are you even thinking at that point
yeah now it was it hit him I mean he knew right there's no getting out of I'm going to get the worst what whatever
they can give me I'm going to get it so on the afternoon of January 1st 1995 just before 1 p.m. a prison officer at
Winston green jail in Birmingham went to check on Fred and found him hanging from
a noose that he'd fashioned from his own shirt that makes me so angry that [ __ ] should have been on 247
surveillance before he got to do anything well so medical Prof Personnel tried for 30 minutes to revive him but
their efforts were useless he was dead uh but Fred had been on suicide watch since the hearing in July but in
December those restrictions had been lifted he was no longer deemed highrisk so he had been on suicide watch for
months and then the second he got off it the second it was lifted in fact the asshol seemed to be
in High Spirits the night before his death he played pool he was celebrating the new year with the other inmates he
celebrating his last [ __ ] day on Earth the guards told reporters he seemed completely normal it was just
like any other day wow now this is this is the only thing that's good I guess is
that the news of Fred's death was met with resounding cheers from nearly everyone who'd been affected by his M so
that is good so as long as they're they look at it as that's good enough for me Allison chamers mother Joan Owen said
this is the best news I've heard for a long time after all the evil things he did that supposed be the only good thing
he ever did anyone who can do what he did and then walk around and act as if nothing happened is truly evil
absolutely and Marie's husband Chris Davis was very enthusiastic about the news calling Fred suicide a great result
and saying he will rot in hell for what he did he deserves everything that's waiting for him and I say agreed here
here Chin Chin here here now although Fred Su aside meant that he was not going to be legally held accountable for
the crimes he committed nearly everyone seemed to take the news well including those who worked in the justice system
to be honest well and if you think about it it's like he's able to sit there in [ __ ] jail and play pool and shoot the
[ __ ] with other inmates like he shouldn't have that ability now he canot rotten hail yeah rotten hail now the
massive investigation had taken a huge financial toll on Glo I always say this wrong and I apologize I'm going to try
to say it right gloustershire gler justice system I hope I said that right for you guys and was an immense
strain on the min IP Al's resources I mean they were struggling through this so if nothing else it saved everyone a
lot of time money and heartache well that's good so everyone involves seems see you yeah honestly everybody involves
seems fine with it so I'm so that's all that I'll take at first I was like come on but well and that's and that's
honestly I see why you said that because there is a part of it that you're like [ __ ] he didn't face the mus well and
also his death presented a big problem for the crown prosecution service because they were intending to prosecute
rose with Fred unable to corroborate any of the statements he' made regarding her
participation and the murders there was they weren't admissible in court anymore
his statements and they would have to rely on Rose's statements alone so that's not good so that sucks now
despite pressure to drop the charges against Rose which would save obviously a lot of
time and money detective superintendent John who was in charge of the case reassured the families that the case
against Rose was going forward that's a real one right there he said whilst financed must always be a consideration
with any investigation or inquiry it is always secondary to the result of any of
the inquiries we have undertaken we are totally committed to the care of the victim's families with this case that's
incredible now Rose's trial began October 3rd 1995 at Winchester Crown Court in Hampshire before Justice
Charles mantel I like justice Charles M to you have to wonder where that other Justice was that like threw out the
first sexual assault case I'm like where are you cuz let's smack him in the face
a little bit but I'm glad we have a Justice now that we like here he's good now arguing for the crown was prosecutor
Brian leveson while Rose's defense team was led by Richard Ferguson Ferguson in the months leading up to the trial the
defense made a lot of attempts to get it thrown out completely wow which I'm like
how do you [ __ ] sleep at night I'm sorry I know we've gone through this and I know I'll get a ton of messages that
are like that's our job I know that I realize that one though you're like this one I don't understand I know it's their
job I get M's Not Innocent though but like I personally don't I could never Mama's not innocent and I'm sorry but
y'all don't believe that she is but they were trying to get it thrown out on The
Logical idea that given the intense and lurid press coverage since the arrest there was no way that Rose was going to
get a fair trial well but the judge said hm disagree and the case was allowed to
proceed which I love that the judge like huh yeah that nope I don't think so I think it's good maybe you don't be
involved in murdering that many people and you'll find a fair trial oh oh you won't actually have to have a trial yeah
cuz you about that now in his opening statement to the jury Justice mantel reminded them that they were expected to
leave behind all preconceptions Prejudice and sentiment they that they had about the defendant and base their
decisions entirely on the case as it was presented in court yeah so he did his due diligence he says enter upon your
very heavy responsibility in a clear cut way unaffected by anything you may have
read about this case which certainly has its Sensational aspects can you imagine
sitting on this jury no with his statement out of the way the clerk read the charges against Rose and the most
significant of which those um of those charges were the 10 counts of first-degree murder for the deaths of sh
because she was eventually charged with Charmaine good Charmaine West Linda gof Carol Cooper Lucy Partington theres seen
thaler sh hubard Wanita M shirleyanne Robinson Allison Chambers and Heather West you hear all the names it's like
horrifying it is and these are all young girls who had their whole lives ahead of
them in his opening statement Brian leveson laid out the facts for the jury in Grizzly detail emphasizing the fact
that Rose had been a very enthusiastic and active participant in the brutally violent sexual T torture
and murder of at least 10 women wow he said the picture which I shall described revealed by the evidence and
the material including photographs you will see is in places horrific and harrowing I do not do this to shock or
provoke sympathy but so that you have an entire picture against which to decide the case now leveson began uh his story
with the murder of Heather West and then he worked backwards okay he provided details on all the other nine women Rose
was accused of killing and he said for the rest their last moments on Earth where as objects of the sexual depravity
of this woman and her husband yep which I think is a perfect way of describing it and it is so bone chilling and so
[ __ ] gut-wrenching but it's the truth and it Paints the picture of like look at this [ __ ] monster sitting before
you she treated them as objects and she very much did I mean the fact that they covered their faces the way they did and
she was part of everything yeah one after another the expert Witnesses told the evidence collected in the west home
this um included several homemade torture devices are you kidding me and sexual props and also a variety of
pornographic materials that included the abuse of children's children and animals
oh my God they're the wor you can't think of something worse than them no it's every gross horrific nasty thing
that exists that was their thing also forensic experts and several Pathologists were called to the stand
all of them did their best to explain the evidence discovered on the bodies exuded from the graves at both the West
homes and the field where an McFall and Reena West were buried now arguing in Rose's
defense Richard Ferguson claims Rose was innocent and was as much a victim of Fred as anyone else please he said he
abused her as he abused everyone else in his evil life and he said it is because
of him that she is before the court no it's not testifying in her own defense girl bye Rose told the jury about her
difficult upbringing and her own experiences with sexual violence that had led her to trust a man like Fred
West he she said he promised me the world he promised me everything because I was so young I fell for his lies he
promised to love and care for me and I fell for it okay girl sure that's how you entered into this with FR exactly
I'll give you that y but you became what the [ __ ] are you doing now burying another child and murdering it yeah what
the [ __ ] are you doing now exactly and what are you doing in a house with child
abuse images and animal abuse images torture devices that you made together your daughter in the backyard cuz you
had a tough upbringing like plenty of people have a tough upbringing people in the courtroom somebody raised their hand
did you have a tough upbringing did you do this like shut the [ __ ] up Rose no that's absolutely
ridiculous to claim a she was in tears she cried I bet she was and if it scored any points with the jury we don't know
because she then had a very combative attitude under cross-examination by the prosecutor and that didn't help her at
all and they I'm sure that's when they saw the real rose that's when she came out for real Rose had portrayed herself
as a scapegoat for Fred's crimes saying I'm the one now in the spotlight Fred Russ is dead and I've got to be made
responsible for what he has done [ __ ] please leveson though said [ __ ] off Rose
he didn't hesitate he fired right back saying it's not everyone dumping everything on you it's you dumping
everything on Fred you fully participated in each and every murder didn't you yep and it's possible that a
1995 jury could have been sympathetic to the argument put forth by the defense AB
of course but the problem was there was like no evidence or testimony to back up
any of the claims she had of being an innocent victim right Fred and Rose had developed very few social relationships
outside of themselves at least very few that weren't built on sexual exploitation so there was almost no one
who would testify on her behalf like no one anybody who testified was testifying
against her there was no one that was going to sit up there and say she was anything but a [ __ ] monster and also
in the years since the arrests were first made the family had fractured and parted even more right with nearly
everyone abandoning Fred and Rose well because at that point it's like everything coming to light and they're
probably at this point processing their own traumas now that they have time to be away from their parents Mon moners
and the result of her very tearful performance GP pretty ineffective yeah so she really wasted give a [ __ ] for all
those girls crying in fact you you couldn't even see it you wrapped their head in plastic tape while they cried
underneath that so [ __ ] you so [ __ ] you Rose but further complicating matters
was the multiple Witnesses and living victims who testified that they had been sexually assaulted and abused by both
Fred and Rose at their home on Cromwell Street so she wasn't going to get I don't know what she good try that's the
thing you there's still living people that you've affected that are going to come out and say [ __ ] you you were part
of the thing exactly good when leveson confronted rose with the violent sexual assault on Caroline Owens in
1972 Rose responded by saying are you ready for this no her response to this no it was a oneoff it was the one
mistake I made in my life I regret it now the one mistake you killed anold you killed a [ __ ] 8-year-old
you sat by and watched your [ __ ] husband kill your daughter you sat by and you [ __ ] participated in how many
other murders and you want to sit there and call it a oneoff it was This Woman's violent and brutal and horrific
and traumatizing sexual assaults and torture was a wof it's one mistake I made a mistake is like oh [ __ ] I just
got in like a fender bender oopsie a mistake is oops I put someone on an email I shouldn't have yeah that's a
mistake oops my bad this the fact that her mind works that way that she's like it was a one-off like why are you even
bringing that up a one call that a oneoff nobody else's one mistake in their life is violently torturing and
sexually assaulting a woman sorry that's not that's not what anybody can describe
as a one-off oops a mistake no no no no no no no but and the thing was he wasn't
a oneoff since the jury had just heard testimony from a number of other young women who told the court about their
assault by Fred and Rose West it was never just Fred none of these women were getting up there saying oh yeah and Rose
was just you know around the house or something no rose actively participated doing the same things now in this in his
closing statement Richard Ferguson the defense um shut up reminded the jury that they should find his client not
guilty no bye that didn't mean the murders like they said if you find my client not guilty that doesn't mean the
murders go unpunished he said Frederick West provided his own solution his death
has ensured that the relatives of the victims need not worry that the their deaths have gone unpunished so that's a
weight that's been lifted from your shoulders if that woman didn't sit in [ __ ] prison those families would have
been absolutely outraged don't even pretend for a second this man stood up there and said she didn't do anything
and then Said Fred Rose took care about everybody why are you being such [ __ ] about it he literally sat there and was
like what he killed himself move on he got punished he that's exactly what he he literally was like he killed himself
pun why are we here that's literally what he's saying here is like what you don't have to worry anymore oh I don't
have to worry how about all these the problem is sitting up here and you're telling me that she could walk how about
all these women that are sitting here oh yeah telling me their experiences also what if she were to meet somebody as
equally depraved you're going to tell me that going happen again she'll go find it she [ __ ] has a type clearly well
and as he had done as he had done through most of the trial he used his closing arguments to put all of the
responsibility on Fred and reminded the jury that the case was almost entirely circumstantial and then he warned them
not to get caught up in the details about Fred and Rose's quote unquote unconventional sex
life I was like you sir unconventional honestly my antenna's up on you if that's what you call this like I'd be
like somebody needs to go search his [ __ ] hard drive what's going on there unon unconventional sex life is what
you're calling this that man practiced like I know you got a job I know you got a job to
do wow youed you Ed the phrase unconventional set you could have omitted that one he practiced that in
his closing arguments before standing up there in front of everybody you could have omitted that somebody probably
signed off on that and was like yeah good call yeah that's fine what the actual [ __ ] [ __ ] blew my mind
unconventional in the end the jury was thankfully pretty unmoved by Ferguson's argument thankfully yeah I mean you
never know how something's going to go but like in this I mean you're like come on my guy yeah and on November 22nd 1995
Rose West was found guilty of all 10 murders with the judge passing sentence the very same day good and judge mantel
said the sentence is one of life in prison if any attention is paid to what I think you will never be released and I
was like let's go yeah honestly judge Manel imposed the maximum penalty Allowed by
the law sentencing her to at least 25 years but in 1997 Home Secretary Jack straw citing the brutality of the case
because it is quite clearly above and beyond most cases 100% he imposed a whole life tariff meaning Rose would
spend the rest of her life in prison I've never even heard of that well this was only the second time the sentence
had been imposed on a woman in UK history wow and it's because it's so brutal they were like you can never
leave like we can never let you out that's crazy I want to look up the first person who got it I know I didn't I
didn't look it up I should have but yeah if you will look it up now Rose maintains her
innocence get so [ __ ] [ __ ] into the sun rose truly [ __ ] off but since her failed bid at an appeal in 1996 the year
that Ash came into this world hey she's declined to pursue any further appeals because one she knows she's guilty as
[ __ ] and two she knows she's not getting out interesting actually Myra Henley End
up wonder if it was Myra she's not the only one I think I wondered if it was Myra there's Myra and then there's
Joanna Deni oh okay I'm not sure I wondered if Myra was going to be in there so Fred and Rose West are among
clearly the most prolific and shocking and horrific and brutal and sadistic serial killers in the in UK history
definitely and their story and those of their victims honestly remains as horrifying and appalling today as it did
when they were first arrested and that's some 30 years ago but while Rose has been in prison since her sentencing the
story has continued to evolve in 1996 anarie Davis the West's oldest daughter alleged that her uncle John West had
sexually assaulted her more than 300 times between 1975 and 1980 oh no that's her
uncle according to anarie when she complained to Rose about the abuse her mother laughed and told her don't be
stupid don't don't be stupid about what John West was arrested and was facing a trial himself when he hanged himself in
his garage in November 1996 what yeah same fate wow now two years later in the spring of 1998 Fred's cousin William
Hill was arrested and charged with sexually assaulting four young girls in his home in M Markle in
1976 he was only 24 years old at the time oh my God what happened to this family this family is just has like
disgusting [ __ ] running deep he was questioned at the time and denied any involvement but and he wasn't arrested
until 1997 when more victims came forward oh no the this a pathology throughout this
family it is and while there's no question that Fred and Rose killed the 12 victims referenced in the court
documents investigators do believe there's more victims abut including Mary basol and efforts to recover their
bodies have been ongoing as recently as 2021 wow and recently investigators in Gloucester have been digging at several
sites around the city where Fred was known to have visited worked hung out anything but as of now they have yet to
find any additional victims you really I mean you hope that like there aren't any
Logics you that he didn't go that long like these these year periods and even like at one point there was an
eight-year period I just don't buy with how sick and twisted they were that they
didn't yeah that's you don't want there to be additional victims obviously but you also if they're missing persons that
are victims of them you want them to be found and identified yes exactly it it really is such a double-edged sword yeah
it just doesn't make sense that they're going these long periods of time but you
know I mean it happens strange I just feel like because of their pathology yeah they seem frenzied frenzi very
frenzied and very um it was almost like instinct to them like yeah it was like a
kneejerk kind of thing yep absolutely yeah it just seems like they wouldn't have taken that time but yeah who knows
but I'm glad that we got through the whole thing and that we were able to I feel like you did a really good job of
like telling each victim's story and like I feel like like I've said I've heard this case covered before but I
don't think I heard as much detail about each girl no thank you and honestly Dave
is a absolute I'm going to canonize him I think like he's a saint for for helping me with this because he was just
as like elbow deep as I was and I think we're both just like okay bye and he was so good at that and you
guys if you're looking if you do want to read anarie West's book is is out of the
Shadows we'll link it in the show notes and it's harrowing truly harrowing sounds like she went through so much
more than any of us could ever even imagine yeah it's truly unbelievable all right well you promised to do something
spooky yooki or like oh yeah I'm I'm taking a little bit of a turn we got something spooky coming from you next
yeah um and I think we'll have a listener Tale in between this and the next episode so that will be a nice
little pallet cleanser pal answer and in the meantime we hope you keep listening
and we hope you keep it weird you know I'm not going to tell you not to keep it this weird because that would be so
silly of me to say cuz I know you won't keep it us fa no by bye [Music] [Music] [Music]

Part four focuses on Fred & Rose West's final crimes, and the events leading up to their arrest. Their subsequent trials would become the focus of the nation as people learned of the atrocities performed at their home.

Thank you to the wondrous Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for Research!

References Amis, Martin. 2000. When darkness met light. May 11. Accessed March 21, 2024. https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2000/may/11/features11.g2.

BBC News. 1998. Fred West 'admitted killing waitress'. March 25. Accessed March 19, 2024. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/69928.stm.

—. 2001. How many more did Fred West kill? September 27. Accessed March 19, 2024. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1567038.stm.

—. 2021. The 12 victims of Fred and Rosemary West. May 27. Accessed March 18, 2024. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-57182844.

Bennett, Will. 1995. Step-daughter Charmaine was first to die. November 22. Accessed March 19, 2024. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/stepdaughter-charmaine-was-first-to-die-1583071.html.

Birmingham Evening Mail. 1974. "Missing girls theory." Birmingham Evening Mail, January 7: 1.

Birmingham Post. 1968. "Missing waitress mystery deepens." Birmingham Post, January 23: 2.

—. 1974. "Student missing for six days may return ton university-police." Birmingham Post, January 2: 2.

—. 1968. "Yard detectives join search for Gloucester girl." Birmingham Post, January 9: 1.

Campbell, Duncan. 1995. "How a string of girls came to die in depraved and appalling circumstances." The Guardian, October 7.

Duce, Richard. 1995. "West's suicide avenged killings, QC tells jurors." The Times, November 16.

Duce, Richard, and Bill Frost. 1995. "Court told of depravity at 25 Cromwell Street." The Times, October 7: 4.

Evening Post. 1968. "Helicopter joins hunt for Mary." Evening Post, January 8: 1.

Evening Standard. 1974. "Have you spotted this girl?" Evening Standard, July 4: 18.

Frost, Bill. 1995. "Cromwell Street murders case man is dead." The Times, Janaury 2.

Frost, Bill, and Richard Duce. 1995. "I'm being made a scapegoat, says West." The Times, November 2.

—. 1995. "No place for sentiment, West jurors are told." The Times, October 4.

—. 1995. "West: I fell under Fred's spell." The Times, October 31.

Gloucester Echo. 1994. "Did builder know Mary?" Gloucester Echo, March 8: 3.

—. 1994. "Graden bodies: Who were they?" Gloucester Echo, March 2: 1.

Gloucestershire Echo. 1995. "From angelic child to coldest of killers." Gloucestershire Echo 5.

—. 1995. "Fred West found dead." Gloucestershire Echo, January 2: 1.

—. 1995. "I'll see you in court, Rose." Gloucestershire Echo, January 4: 1.

Knight, Adam. 2014. Fred West's brother denies incest claims. November 7. Accessed March 17, 2024. https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/11587578.fred-wests-brother-denies-incest-claims/.

Lee, Adrian, Tim Jones, and Damian Whitworth. 1996. "Fred West's brother hangs himself." The Times, November 29.

Ovington, Paul. 1974. "Hunt steps up as fear grows for Lucy, 21." Western Daily Press and Times, January 4: 1.

Sounes, Howard. 1995. Fred & Rose: The Full Story of Fred and Rose West and the Gloucester House of Horrors. New York, NY: Open Road Media.

United Press International. 1995. "British jury convicts West of 10 murders." UPI Archive, November 22.

West, Mae, and Neil McKay. 2018. Love as Always, Mum: The True and Terrible Story of Surviving a Childhood with Fred and Rose West. London, UK: Seven Dials Press.

Williams, Martin. 1994. "'Our sister is still alive'." Gloucester Echo, February 26: 1.

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Brief Summary

Ash and Elena discuss the horrific crimes of Fred and Rose West, detailing their victims and the investigation that led to their arrest.

Key points

Sourdough Journey. Ash shares her experience with baking sourdough and the support from her community.
Horrific Family Dynamics. The discussion shifts to the abusive environment faced by children in a troubled family.
Unexpected Job Loss. Heather's plans to escape her abusive home fall through at the last moment, leaving her devastated.
Heather's Disappearance. May learns that her sister Heather is missing, leading to a troubling family dynamic.
Fred's Disturbing Claims. Fred West's bizarre explanation for Heather's disappearance raises serious suspicions.
Investigation Begins. A young girl comes forward, prompting an investigation into the West family.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's Hard Out Here in these streets.

Elena comments on the current state of sickness going around.

6:10WatchMay 27, 2024

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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