Elliott Smith ////// 307 | Forensic Files

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oh Steven Paul Elliot Smith known simply as Elliot was born in Omaha Nebraska on
August 6th 1969 an only child his parents were Gary Smith a then student at the University
of Nebraska Medical Center and Bunny K barryman Elementary School music teacher seemingly Elliot followed his mother's
creative footsteps with a shared passion for music he went on to become a acclaimed singer
songwriter and a skillful instrumentalist Ellie was just 6 months old when his parents got divorced
following this his mother uprooted to Duncanville Texas with her infant son it was there where she met her new partner
Charlie Welsh and began what was reportedly an agonizing chapter in Smith's Young Life Elliot was said to
endure a turbulent relationship with the stepfather he claimed his childhood was
tainted by cruelty and sexual abuse his allegations have been denied by Welsh though Charlie is reference and Elliot's
songs including flowers for Charlie and no confidence man despite his hardship Elliot found a
positive outlet he started playing piano at the age of nine soon after he was introduced to the acoustic guitar a gift
from his biological father around this time Smith wrote fantasy original piano piece winning him a prize
in an Arts Festival at the age of 14 Elliot went to live with his father who was working as a psychiatrist in
Portland Oregon adolesence was a period where Smith found his artistic style he started to experiment with recording and
played clarinet in the high school band adding to his repertoire of instruments he too sang in the Bands
murder of crows and Stranger Than Fiction build as Steven Smith or Johnny panic but Elliot was venturing down a
darker path within a circle of friends drugs and alcohol were prevalent this Behavior was considered a coping
strategy a way to help navigate the inner demons of its youth after graduating from Lincoln High
School as a National Merit scholar Smith dropped the name Steven choosing instead
to be called Elliott he attended Hampshire College in Elmhurst mass in 1991 he graduated with a degree in
philosophy and political science it was in Hampshire that Elliott formed the band Heat
Miser the band made three albums before being signed to Virgin records and releasing a final album in
1996 that same year Elliot moved to Brooklyn New York as an artist Elliot's known for his soft almost whispered
vocals and complex yet simple Melodies fans of his work have praise His intensely personal lyrics though
there are themes of sadness anger and self-destruction throughout these are layered with a Bare Bones vulnerability
the writing can be interpreted as both relatable and cryptic in nature in 1997 Elliot would be
approached by director Gus VanZant van an wanted Elliott to be a part of the soundtrack for the upcoming movie
Goodwill Hunting the soundtrack featured two songs from the albums Roman candle and either or with the third song Miss
Misery following the film's outright success Elliot received a nomination for Academy Award for Miss Misery despite
being an all of the Oscar's experience he was quoted to have described the event as real and
otherworldly in the background Elliot was believed to be struggling with heavy drinking and the use of
anti-depressants major label DreamWorks signed Elliot in 1998 the album EXO was released the most
profitable accomplishment of his career sadly it was at this point Elliott's mental well-being began to
decline he spoke openly of suicide and reportedly made at least one serious attempt to end his own life when highly
intoxicated Elliot plan to jump to his death his fall was broken by a tree which left him injured but
alive in the early 2000s Elliot's mental health became a serious concern he was likely
experienced paranoia and delusions adamant that a vehicle was following his every move and that his label DreamWorks
was plotting against him breaking into his house and stealing songs from his computer it's noted that Elliot may have
gone days without eating or sleeping and plans to produce a follow-up album to XO
were dissolved reports state that Elliot complained about the intrusion of his personal life as well as poor promotion
of his previous work he apparently begged the label to renounce all ties therefore ending his contract or else he
threatened to take his own life in 2001 Elliot was said to be smoking up to $1,500 of heroin and crack cocaine daily
and may have tried to overdose as a result of his suicidal State his disheveled appearance was unrecognizable
during the occasional performances he managed to attend he was known to exhibit alarming
signs of awkwardness and memory loss to the point of forgetting song lyrics in late 2002 Elliot and his girlfriend
Jennifer Sheba were involved in an altercation with the Los Angeles Police Department outside a music
concert allegedly Elliot was trying to defend a man who was being harassed by the officers in question this resulted
in a brawl and Elliot being arrested concerned over Elliott's appearance emerged he was described as looking out
of control after Elliott's arrest things were looking more promising in January and February of
2003 he achieved two sellout acoustic shows at the Henry fond the theater in Hollywood outwardly it appeared he was
aiming to regain his Integrity as a performer it's been speculated that Elliot had attempted rehab several times
to no avail I couldn't do the first step he stated I couldn't say what you're supposed to say and mean
it after his 34th birthday though Elliott cut out alcohol and ended his long-term term use of psychiatric
medication he also gave up caffeine red meat and refined sugar hopeful of recovery after many years of unease he
began to reemerge himself into recording exploring different styles and recording
techniques Elliot played red Fest at the University of Utah on September 19th 2003 his closing song was the Beatles
long long long this would be Elliott's final performance on October 21st 2003 paramedics were called to Elliott's home
in Echo Park California his girlfriend Jennifer who shared the home with Elliot made the
call Elliot was found with two stab wounds to the chest and he could not be revived at 1:36 p.m. Elliot Smith was
pronounced dead in Jennifer's account following an argument with Elliot she took a shower
locking the bathroom door hearing an unnerving scream she opened the door to find Elliot standing
with a knife in his chest on impulse she pulled the knife out causing him to collapse she promptly called 911 at 1218
p.m. a suicide note written on a Post-It was rumored to be nearby the note read I'm
sorry love Elliott God forgive me was this the result of Elliott's inner pain an act that he's been threatening
for a long time or is there something more to the story suicide or homicide there are unanswered questions
and Mysteries surrounding the events of October 21st 2003 what really happened to elot
Smith [Music] all right there's a lot to unpack here and the question becomes suicide or
homicide and because of the inconclusive autopsy ruling the Los Angeles Police Department's investigation remains open
on this case so even though most people say it's a suicide why would the investigation
remain open yeah this is a tricky one because we have a situation here where there seems to be some kind of argument
and it seems like it was a big argument yeah um and then later what we have is we have one man dead and then the only
person that is there to tell us what could have happened or what led to this individual's death is somebody that you
might suspect could have a reason for killing this man so it's it's very difficult when you only have this one
let's call it eyewitness to to talk to um you have to go off of what their statements are and based off of the
scientific evidence that's out there now his girlfriend Jennifer Sheba what she claims is that they were in an argument
for several hours now this is backed up by neighbors hearing yelling hearing door slam hearing cabinet slam so that
part of the story we could believe what Jennifer is saying because it's backed up by other Witnesses mhm so there are
many points of speculation and many things that point to suicide or homicide so we want to dive
into each one of those points the first one being that there is no hesitation wounds so what that means is normally
when somebody commits suicide by knife which is a very small percent of all suicides normally and they actually put
this in the same category a stabbing or cutting like somebody cutting their wrist mhm they put this in the same
category that that is still a very small percentage of all suicides now normally
when somebody stabs thems there's hesitation wounds right meaning there's a couple marks around the actual area
where they stab Elliot was actually stabbed twice which is also unusual mhm now here's where it gets a little
convoluted because the hesitation wounds could actually have been destroyed by him actually stabbing himself so there
could have been hesitation wounds but because he was stabbed twice those could have got rid of the evidence of the
hesitation wounds so these two stab wounds that that led to his death these are deep stab wounds so what you're
saying is there could have been a one or two quick little stab marks that that you cannot detect now because these two
are so big yeah and when I originally heard of Elliot Smith suicide I remember hearing that the
rumor was cuz I was a big Goodwill Hunting fan and to know Elliot through that movie basically that's how I knew
of his music I remember the rumor was that Elliot Smith oh that super depressed singer songwriter guy yes he took his
own life how did he take his own life he stabbed himself in the heart with a spoon that was the rumor that I heard
for years and then I started thinking well maybe it wasn't the doll end the spoon it would been the handle of the
spoon but now having the time to investigate it you go okay he stabbed himself twice in the chest or that's
what the speculation is um so the other strange thing about there being no hesitation marks is the majority of the
people that actually stab themselves do so not through clothing so if they have a shirt on they'll lift the shirt up or
unbutton the shirt and so when they go to stab themselves it is knife through skin and that is it not the case and
Elliot Smith's death he stabs himself through the shirt and so you're going to stab yourself twice through the shirt
another thing that points more towards homicide than suicide well and some people might be thinking well that's a
crazy thing to say stabbing through a shirt is very uncommon but straight from the autopsy report here here's what we
have from their own words is there are several aspects of the circumstances that are atypical of
suicide and raise the possibility of homicide these include the absence of hesitation wounds stabbing through
clothing and the presence of small in sized wounds on the right arm and left hand possible defensive wounds so he was
stabbed with a kitchen knife with a regular one um you know just a blade on one side one sharp side kitchen knife
all right so the first point the no hesitation wounds I'm going to say we don't know if they were there or not so
to me that doesn't Point either way to Suicide or homicide yeah oh yeah I agree 100% the other thing here too is I could
see a situation where there was there was never going to be any hesitation wounds right you know
if we have if we have this guy let's say he's just angered out of his mind MH we
know they're in an argument we know they're in an argument he picks up what's readily available a kitchen knife
from his kitchen and boom one in and boom another one so according to the coroner report to the autopsy right uh
the cause of death is stab wounds to the chest each Stab Wound is considered fatal per se you know meaning if this
were to be untreated for any length of time this guy's going to die right and they say that um the second wound
appears to have been deeper than the first because they're saying that there is a periphera wound to the heart
associated with Stab Wound number two wow and the situation that gets difficult here is like you said the
there they cannot find any hesitation wounds on this individual so I'm with you it it could go either way when you
when there is a an offender stabbing a victim you typically will not see any hesitation wounds because they are
attacking the individual right so on the second Point him stabbing himself through a
shirt to me that doesn't seem super likely not impossible obviously but you know the coordinator is even saying hey
this is this is something that we look at this leads more to the side of homicide so i' go okay no no hesitation
marks I don't know what that means so we can lean on the side of suicide there but with the stabbing through the shirt
I'd go to me that leans homicide yeah and that's exactly what they are saying in their report in the
medical report that this is one of the reasons to point toward homicide rather than suicide so I'll agree with that as
well uh the difficult thing here is the shirt is described as a black T-shirt again I could see a situation
this guy's so angered out of his mind that there's there's no cooling down going on for this guy yeah I agree that
it could be pick up pick up the readily available knife through the T-shirt you know taking off the shirt may have
provided a cooling down down period to go wait a second what am I doing what am I what what's going on here right and
that's I think so we both agree that we'll lean towards homicide on that point yeah but but but it's not
impossible not impossible but I'm going to agree with the expert opinion here yeah the other one too is that there's
actually um bone breakage or or damage to the bone with the stabbings and there's two again this is difficult
because it's not situation where he's home by himself and and he's just depressed and decided that's it he's in
an argument but most of the time when they see a suicide by stabbing or cutting or cutting there is they're not
hitting bone well a lot of that time I'm I'm guessing from The Cutting situation
would be cutting at the wrist and and you're not going to hit bone there likely I think here which would make the
percentage way lower much much lower and I think that the situation here is very
difficult to really get a grasp on what the percentage would be here because of the location of the stab wounds so the
location of the stab wounds it would be very difficult not to hit or break bone right in that location so but I do want
to point out one thing while we're you know talking EXA about these stab wounds is they do point out in the autopsy
report that the stab wounds are cons consistent with self-infliction okay so what they mean
by that is the angle of these stab wounds it would not have been impossible for him to have
done this himself right so it it's not we're not talking about aami Malik type autopsy report where there's a a gunshot
wound to somebody you know in their back or the back of the head in in a weird location this is a location these two
stab wounds are right to the chest to the chest cab cavity and he could have done this you know from this angle he
could have done this himself or it could be also consistent with somebody lunging
at him with a knife well and then you have the angle of the blade mhm and the rumor that I heard is that the angle
that the blade was at is more consistent with homicide than suicide but with it being such a small blade I wonder if
that even matters or if that should be something that we even take into play that is too difficult for me to get
a grasp on from looking at the autopsy report I cannot figure out if these are vertical or horizontal right wounds um
the there is a diagram on there now people can find portions I couldn't find the entire autopsy report but you can
find portions of this and it looks to me judging by reports that read in the past
and what I can see on the the papers I have here my guess is that this autopsy report is probably anywhere from 14 to
21 pages long wow but I could find five pages of of the actual autopsy report so
the one page that I have that has the diagram of of his body and where they're marking out the wounds
it's the two wounds that they have here it looks like they're indicating that these would be vertical stab wounds but
I can't say 100% because of the way that this is drawn out and the the notes that
were taken on this diagram are all written in Shand yeah and so it's it's difficult for me to say what what the
medical examiner was um was trying to convey here in this diagram because you know for her
M it's it's very very likely especially if she she determines that it's suicide it's a document that is only necessary
for her so it's not like it has to be typed out um they would type these out typically and more detail right but that
page is missing from what I could find so I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that they haven't closed
the investigation or it might just be the website where I got this from is not okay so it's not like a typical website
where you would go hunting for autopsy reports they this just might be the portion that they decided to release on
their website if that makes sense right right so they're they're taking a bit of
creative control here and decided look a lot of this is is medical mumbo jumbo uh
and it won't be of interest to our readers so we will we will present the the pages that are of most interest or
what we think that they will find most interest interest in but like you were saying if if in fact these are vertical
wounds I mean trying to make the motion myself with my right hand or left hand that does make it a little more
difficult I could I could see if they were horizontal wounds it being easier to stab myself in the chest and and give
more Force thrust right and I think unless you're coming across the chest like as if you're like beating your
chest mhm I could see that being more vertical and but to your point is that if these are in fact vertical wounds
that would be more consistent with a homicide with somebody you know lunging forward and attacking
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today all right back to the open investigation of Elliot Smith suicide or homicide the other thing that is strange
here is like you said there's defensive wounds and right when you hear the term defensive wounds you go
aha yeah aha got him but these defensive wounds it's not that simple there's not a lot of
defensive wounds on the hands where you would think somebody that was trying to defend themselves would be marked up
more again though it's also hard to figure out because it's not like we have the knife in front of us and if it's
just like a more of a a dull kitchen knife you might not see as many defensive wounds as you would with like
a sharp butcher knife mhm yeah and they're not saying for certain that these are in fact defensive wounds
because if they were 100% on that they're going to go okay this is not only an undetermined death right this is a
homicide this is a homicide and we we need to look at this or further investigate it into to the point to
where we can say it's not a homicide so the thing with these two wounds um and it may be more than two but it says the
presence of a small insed wounds on the right arm and left hand mhm and then they say possible defensive wounds so I
could see you know obviously with the hand you the in a lot of times when there are attacks you see several cuts
to the hands where the person is able to fend off the attacker for a decent amount of time until till they end up
they end up being attacked to the point of their death but I don't I don't think
I fully understand the the wound to the right arm yeah it's it's more like towards the chest area right or towards
the shoulder area am I right about that or you could be from from this report though again
this is in shorthand so I don't know what this this Mark is indicating here on the right arm it looks like it could
more than halfway up the arm right and this is where it gets strange for me too because we have reports of them slamming
doors and slamming cabinets and we all know one of our friends that have got in an argument and punch something you know
whether it was a refrigerator or a door or and so I wondered is it possible that
Elliot was upset and tried to punch something or and and and maybe there's no evidence of him I I once punched a
skillet it was the dumbest thought but at the time you you're just in an argument you're
upset punch you you normally punch something that you shouldn't punch and so I just wondered if any of these
wounds to the hand would be something that would happen from from that the way that it's described sounds almost like a
some form of cut though right which would go to the thought of defensive wound because of the the knife being the
what ended up killing Elliot Smith I think the the difficult thing here is I we don't have Jennifer I don't
know anything about his girlfriend right I don't know where they line up sizewise
compared to one another if well he was bigger than her but but not you know right and what what I'm getting at here
is that I think that we I feel like I would see a situation if this was a homicide that there would be many more
defensive wounds I agree to Elliot Smith because I think he would have been able
to fight her off or fend her off for a good amount of time and keep in mind we know let's let's pretend he was attacked
okay let's pretend for a moment this was a homicide we know that he would have been attacked straight on face to face
right cuz that's where the wounds came from yeah it's it's not like we have a situation where we can think that he
would have been attacked by from behind and it was a bit of a sneak attack or anything like that this would be a
situation where he would be able to defend himself for a decent amount of time and I think for me the small amount
of speculative defensive wounds points to maybe those are either self-inflicted or caused from something
else well and she claims that you know they're arguing for hours and hours and finally she's like this is
nuts right I'm going I'm going to take a shower and I'm going to get away and then once she goes in he's now telling
her to come out you know basically hey if you don't come out you know I'm going to kill myself he's threatening to kill
himself according to her right and again we don't know her but we know his life and somebody that has talked about
suicide as openly as he did for one but too we've seen it time and time again where he would threaten this hey you
don't want me you don't want to let me out of my record contract mhm I'll kill myself MH that's on record so at least
we can say hey there is some evidence that backs up what Jennifer is saying I go to the
bathroom uh we're in this argument and then it becomes you know come out or I'm going to kill myself now she says she's
only in there like 5 to 10 minutes for this 5 to 10 minutes is Elliot walking around with the knife you
know does he you know accidentally cut himself in the hand or does he does he purposely do it um who knows we we won't
we just don't know but I believe that part of her story because we have evidence to back that up so it would be
interesting to know which side the blade was on the sharp side of the knife per his wounds and I say that because with
with where this wound is on the uh arm right I I could see that that maybe because if he did stab himself he
stabbed himself twice in the chest at least right and so we know the knife was removed from the body and then entered
the body again I almost wonder if the the wound to the hand or to the arm if it's a possibility depending on what
side the blade was on could that have been from the knife being removed and the other thing we should keep in mind
too is she Jennifer when she finds Elliott he's still awake and according to her report is standing at the time
that she finds him she removes the knife from his chest yeah so let's unpack this
this part of the story a little bit more well real real quick here but just before before before I forget this
thought completely my where I'm going with this too is could this have been could he have put his hand to his
chest grasping at the pain and she removes a knife and then that that knife upon that removal could cause the wound
to the hand there's ways that these could be right these wounds could have occurred without them being intentional
by him or her well yeah and part of that story is that she pulls the knife from him he
collapses look at the the the one chest wound or the shoulder wound whatever we're calling it is it possible when she
pulls the knife out that he falls into the knife so because he does collapse so that's a possibility to explain away
some of those what's very difficult is Jennifer was trained extensively in first aid and so
she would have known that you do not pull the knife out you you just add pressure you call 911 you add pressure
you do not take the knife out because sometimes pulling the knife out causes more damage than it does going in there
are some people that she has worked with that have came forward and said hey I went to the classes with her she knew
she knew better but then on the flip side the argument becomes yes that's when you're in a
controlled environment there's no Panic there's no blood you know she comes out of the
bathroom because she hears this agonizing scream he turns around there's a knife
in him she pulls it out now people that are going to say hey this is homicide well what a great way to cover
it up oh he stabbed himself or I stabbed him I'll just tell everybody I pulled the knife out M that explains why my
fingerprints are on this knife yeah that explains why my hands are bloody when you when the authorities show up right
and so it's kind of weird to me that people that she worked with would come forward and say hey we took these
classes together she knows better so to me that part it's again it's tough It's that gray area because there's a part of
me that goes yes she knew what to do in class but you've been in a heated argument with somebody that you love or
somebody that you live with somebody you're connected with somebody that has had a lot of
issues and and so then you freak out and you pull out a knife you do something you're
not supposed to do but she did call 911 yeah so the the words of the medical examiner are this Additionally the
girlfriend's reported removal of the knife and subsequent refusal to speak with detectives are all of concern so
this is not our opinion that the removal of the knife is a concern it's the opinion of Los Angeles County right now
I did I did find something sorry because I'm I'm reading as we are doing this because I was looking for more
information on these other what we were talking about just before the possible defensive wounds well we also o wanted
to cover this a little different we want to have it be more of like a off the Record just kind of a open discussion
Captain wanted me going into this blind let's say yeah uh with very little information or knowledge about the case
so according to the body examination from Los Angeles County a small slight laceration is noted to the palm of the
left and right hand and another slight laceration is noted under the upper right arm as well so under the upper
right arm that's a little that's away from the heart so that that's likely not caused
by what I thought of possibly removing the knife after the first stab and then stabbing myself again but the the thing
that's tricky here is but if she removed the knife and he collaps forward the knife could have hit him under the right
arm the small slight laceration is noted to the palm of the left and right hand which is
possible if he's using both hands to stab himself mhm it could have slipped on the second stabbing yeah so
that that's a possibility but again it's strange but also consistent with me putting my hands up trying to stop an
attack but I would expect there where they say small slight laceration if I've put my hands up and in a way to to stop
someone from attacking me and I'm hitting the Palm with with that knife I'm expecting to see there's going
to be Force there's going to be power behind that blade and I would expect there to be these to be deep wounds to
the Palms I mean you could almost Envision a scenario where he's picking up a knife and test it real quick on one
hand right cuz you I mean if if he's determined to do this he's going to grab a sharp knife and like you said the the
the other hand could have simply been from slippage from now we have we have blood entered into the equation we got a
slippery situation his hand could have slipped for the second Stab Wound and mind you we do
know that based off of the the how deep these two wounds are that very likely the second Stab Wound was with more
power with more Force which is strange to me because to me that leans more homicide
than suicide because you would think after the first stab he would be weakened he'd be
weakened but again adrenaline I mean you know yeah you you it's you know it's such
a what's also sad about this is here's a guy that went through all this stuff and
obviously had some Trauma from his younger days and wrestling with with a lot of
stuff but seemed like he was tur turning a corner and even afterwards his girlfriend said it
didn't make any sense because he was so healthy that this was probably the healthiest he had been since the time
she had known him right but that doesn't mean that he didn't relapse because you
know I think with depression or at least everybody deals with depression differently but I've always with friends
or family members that don't really understand depression or or or or you know you know I've had people tell me
I've been depressed a couple times but I don't understand a a daily depression or
or you just live with depression throughout your life well to me it's very similar to like alcoholism or
something where it's like you wake up and you need to do certain things every day to kind of keep yourself uh above
that low level and and so so is it possible that he was eating better and exercising and and staying away from
drugs and and all that kind of stuff and then he just but he still had a relapse
of things aren't going so well today and we just happen to get an argument and that just pushes him over the edge well
so we have a couple things here and this is from Jennifer's statements we said that you know according to the report
that her refusal to speak with detectives is of concern which should be but in her statement what she stated to
either law enforcement or to the medical examiner I believe this would be to law
enforcement is that Jennifer stated that the deant has suffered from depression all of his life
he had a history of multiple narcotics addiction heroin crack and alcohol abuse although he had been clean for over one
year he engaged in self-mutilating behavior and would burn himself with cigarettes he has a history of one
possible suicide attempt but they go on to say that it's unknown details or time
frame or circumstances and has a consistent history of verbal suicide threats right
uh the decedent sought treatment for his depression from several psychiatrists and was being treated with multiple
prescription drugs and according to the toxicology report the only substances they found in his system at the time of
his death were all prescribed medications to these are therapeutic medications or or or or that's what
they're right prescribed for there's no traces of illegal substances or alcohol mhm because what's not clear is we go
hey these these medications were prescribed what I would like to know is when when would they prescribe and not
just saying like I'm talking about when was the initial hey we're going to put you on X drug to help you with
depression was that 6 weeks ago was that he's been on it for a year because sometimes they have reverse effects and
I've had friends that have had a mild case of depression never having suicidal thoughts and then getting on
anti-depressants instead of it working now they have Suicidal Thoughts mhm and so again I wonder is this some were they
trying something out cuz sometimes it takes weeks and weeks for these to take effect in a good way or a negative way
so that could be a a possible um reason why this person that was now clean and get in their stuff
together and the healthiest quote unquote he's been since Jennifer knew him that he would be in the state that
he would want to stab himself not once but twice well and medications are such a difficult thing and and I do not I do
not care for doctors that just kind of willy-nilly prescribe things to people I know that that it seems like the medical
profession that people are getting better about that doctors are getting more strict about that and policing
themselves as well their patient right but that's what happens when law happen yeah but I I can recall two situations
for me once I was prescribed Ridin and I was on it for several months it made me
incredibly like I can't even explain how depressed I was right and that's the only I don't know 100% that it came from
the Ridin but that was the only thing that was different in my life at that time right and so I you know finally got
smart and quit taking it and then another situation I had where I was going through some U anxiety stuff and
asked my doctor for to prescribe something and I cannot recall the name of what I was prescribed but I took it
on a Sunday and this was like a narcotic though this was one of those deals where
you get the prescription and it has to have like the stamp like the it's written on special paper and uh so I got
this thing and I called my doctor on Monday uh the day after I took one and I said we got to we got to get some other
kind of prescription here and she said what's the problem I said I took one of these and I felt like I shotgun eight
beers like I was I was effed up like I mean I was he was effed was I was effed in the F right so the the medication
left in the a a difficult thing but according to the autopsy report and according to statements from his
girlfriend Jennifer he was clean for over a year now she stated in this report too that she knew him for four
years yeah and that they were only together for one year and they were living together at the time I wonder is
this a situation where maybe they liked each other and she's like look dude you're you're on some hardcore drugs
right clean your [ __ ] up and we might be able to have a relationship yeah I mean or this is you
know somebody she admired and went you know he's really talented but that doesn't mean you want to be in a
relationship with a talent talented drug addict cuz that's what he was yeah and as you said Jennifer pulled the knife
out of the decedent's chest and saw two cuts on his chest I find that a strange statement a little bit strange that she
he's wearing a black T-shirt we can assume there's quite a bit of blood involved I don't know how the shirt
would have been tore from those from those two two uh stab wounds right but I think to visibly and to immediately
notice two wounds seems a little strange to me well right but let's okay let's unack this a little bit because she he
did collapse right yes so it's one of those things where it's like she goes well I pulled the knife out then I saw
these two stab wounds he walks away from her after she pulls out the knife and then collapses collapses but but then at
some point she calls 911 and she she then goes over and tries to help him right she she called 911 immediately
according to her statement and performed citizen CPR and first aid with operator
assistance until paramedics arrived right and so on the 911 call we'd have at least uh evidence of that or
evidence of her faking that yeah cuz we have seen situations where people were like no he couldn't have killed his wife
he clearly performed CPR on her you can hear it on the 911 call and then scientifically they determine later that
the the husband faked you know just pretended to be doing the chest compressions or any form of C but again
when she goes over calls 911 and maybe she saw the two stabo then just making the statement that you saw two stab wons
they're claiming that she's saying it right away I pull the knife I see the two stab wounds according to their
statement according to their statement what I'm saying as though as you know before the paramedics get there if she
noticed that there was two stab wounds I want to think that was too odd right because we do know that she I if if
she's to be believed she was performing CPR on him at some point would have noticed if she didn't notice them
immediately she would have definitely noticed the two stab wounds then I would guess yeah and and so then the
paramedics come and then they take him to the hospital and he's yeah he he he's alive at this time he's not awake he
can't speak to anybody but he technically passes away at the hospital again I think this points more toward
suicide because somebody that has this knowledge quote unquote this knowledge of first
aid if somebody was going to commit homicide and try to cover it up why don't you wait a little bit
longer to call 911 yeah yeah and so so it's you know because again when you hear stories I mean the first story that
I heard was he stabbed himself with a spoon I remember thinking at the time cuz I was pretty
young and and being an artist or or trying to be an artist thinking what a artsy way to go the guy stabbed himself
with a spoon and then you come to find out it was not well that's like the telep game you know what I mean it get
or or some guy who goes fishing the fish gets bigger every time he tells the story yeah well that's also that's also
like fandom though right like yeah fans are going and and rightfully so this was
a very talented individual and you can see a situation where where fans are going he was not a
regular man he can't have regular means of death right right even though he threatened suicide multiple times he
would never have taken his own life I and if he did it would have been with a spoon or something something dramatic
yeah although this certainly in itself let's say let's let's pretend it is 100% suicide yeah this is very dramatic a
very dramatic fashion so but but again I think some of that is maybe not so much
dramatic as it is adrenaline and impulsive yeah and very impulsive and I and I think somebody that strugg L
obviously he's impulsive I mean he was a crackhead at one point so I think that is evidence of impulsivity and so you
have a situation where he can't control this he's had a hard time controlling himself okay now I can control it by
taking my life or or you know and and look for all we know he was going I'm I'm going to do it I'm going to stab
myself and she could have said go ahead go ahead and stab yourself and a lot of people would go well then she's
responsible on some level mhm I would argue that this is probably not the first argument they had and I'd also
probably argue this is probably not the first time that they were an argument that he probably threatened to kill
himself he seems like somebody I mean if you're threatening to kill yourself to your record
label how many other people or have you tried to use that right and one thing I do want to clear up too make sure that
we're clear on this is in her statement where she says so in in the County of Los Angeles in their investigators
narrative what they're saying here is he has a history of one possible suicide attempt but they go on to say unknown
details unknown time frame unknown circumstances that's because this is just simply her
Jennifer saying yeah I I think he attempted suicide on one other occasion but she's unable to provide any details
of such so they're they're being very clear with their statement of that is that they're not definitively saying
that he has a history of suicide attempts right again and it could be some fandom
but the the rumor for the longest time was that he tried to kill himself and a in a tree broke the fall which left him
injured but he wasn't dead M and then there was also reports that he actually ODed multiple times on drugs and then
that becomes did he just OD because he was using heroin and using he try to OD or or was it on purpose so when you have
somebody that ODed multiple times then you go okay well- which one is it and then you could also make an argument
that how much do you value your your life if you're constantly using these drugs that can possibly kill you mhm
every time that you use them this this is a difficult one for me because I I've I just always heard these
rumors and this was one that was actually brought up by listeners several times and it would be random it just be
and it wasn't multiple it was never multiple times it was never like I got an email that said check out Elliot
Smith suicide and and let me know what you think I think there was something more
there well again first looking at it you start going suicide homicide well I think LAPD has it right right now just
open because they don't know for sure yeah and I think they're leaving that open in hopes that if it was homicide
that maybe um Jennifer will say something maybe she'll slip up and tell somebody something and then that is will
lead them down to the charging her with something mhm I don't think that's going
to happen um and I don't know if this case will ever get close just because there's so many things that point to
homicide other you know rather than suicide but I think the suicide note for me and I think that's the the last point
but to me the biggest point there is a suicide note yes it's only on a posted note right now the
rumors for a long time was that you know it says uh let me read it again doesn't
have much to it but uh a possible suicide note written on a posted note it read I am sorry love Elliot God forgive
me now the name Elliott there was rumors that it was spelled wrong cuz Elliot he
spells it with two T's and in the coordinator's report it was spelled with one t well that's all it was it was
misspelled on the corin's report by somebody other than Elliot Smith right so it it wasn't misspelled on the posted
note it was spelled correctly on the posted note but in the coordinator's report it was it was spelled incorrectly
so that was a rumor again something that I heard for years that oh yeah well there was this suicide note and it's
kind of weird that it's on a posted note and they spelled Elliot wrong well and here's here's their exact statement a
copy of a suicide note was provided by LAPD detective King original will be provided on
10233 so at the time that this document's created they've not received the original and they just have a copy right
and what they're saying is the note was handwritten on a Post-It and stated quote I'm so sorry love Elliot with one
t God forgive me the note is not dated right so here's here's where it gets weird though so detective King could
have wrote this out and handed it to him and said this I'll get you the I'll get
you the original again for years I heard that there was a suicide note but the name was spelled wrong now now we know
that that was just it was just a m pilot error yeah so here's where it gets weird weird
cuz you go okay they believe or at least all the speculation that I've seen is that this
note was written by Elliot Smith I am sorry love Elliot God forgive me I would like for them to examine just
the God forgive me because I am I'm so sorry love Elliot how many fights were they in that week that led to a bigger
fight and is it possible that he just wrote that out and he went for a walk one day yeah just left it yeah and
didn't write God forgive me but again everything that I've seene says this note was written by Elliott now if this
note was written by Elliott Jennifer would have walked into the perfect situation we're in this
argument he's uh he's out of control I can't stand I can't stand him anymore I want him
dead I'm going to stab him and oh look he left this little possible suicide note mhm so now I can stab him
twice pull it out I'll wait a little bit but not too long and I'll call 911 again I I I think it's more likely
this guy that threatened suicide multiple times was in a state of panic and state
of acting erratic couldn't control the situation probably was making threats the person
on the other end of the threats probably thought they were Hollow threats because
they were hollowed threats before he writes this note it's simple but he wrote it and then he stabbed himself twice and
she comes out and yes she should not have pulled the knife from his chest but again she called 911 when she could have
wait waited just another 5 minutes or another 10 minutes or another you know what I
mean well and another another note regarding the note um it states here that once the decedent was taken to the
hospital police officers arrived and questioned Jennifer about this incident during this questioning she was seated
at the kitchen table and noted for the first time a Post-It note that appeared to be a suicide note left by the
decedent mhm Jennifer recognized the handwriting on the Note as that of the deant and had not seen the note before
that moment the knife the knife the decedent used to stab himself was a regular kitchen knife that immediately
prior to this incident had been sitting out on a cutting board in the kitchen right so the the note according to
detective King and according to these police officers it's not believed that she saw that note
beforehand right so they're questioning her they're talking to her they're trying to figure out what's going on
well he's being taken to the hospital right and she then notices the note but they're there and look these guys are
trained to read people and they're reading somebody see this note for the first time well and the thing here too Captain
is that the way that this autopsy document reads it sounds like the detectives the
exact words are detectives believe this death is possibly suspicious it sounds to me like they
were suspicious of this whole incident as soon as they arrived on the scene right now the problem then becomes the
person that that's dead you can't speak to them they can't give you their account of what
happened now we have this other person we only have two people in this apartment
at the time that this incident occurs yeah so if they are immediately suspicious they have to figure
out is this person who's giving this statement Jennifer is she truthful well we can't determine some of her
truthfulness right here during this questioning because we need scientific fact we need evidence and stuff like
that to tell us if she is being truthful about the exact incident but what we can
figure out is as a whole do we generally walk away from this conversation and believe her statement as a whole to be
truthful so what they're going to look for are things like okay so according to this document it does not say in here
that that she took a shower but for instance that's something they would use because according to the statement is
she took a shower and then heard the scream this leads me to believe that she had to end her shower abruptly and go
out to find him well first off when I'm talking to this individual does she look
like she recently took a shower is her hair still wet right does she look like she was in a shower that was interrupted
okay we've spoke to the neighbors yes they heard shouting they heard some kind of argument so what they're going to do
is if they are suspicious of this person they are going to look for reasons to feed their suspicion or look for reasons
to believe her story or her story is being truthful about points of the story so again if she were to have attacked
him we know this would have been a face-to-face attack this would have been a head-on
attack we see very few possible defensive wounds and then on top of that they're going to be looking at her and
saying does she look like she had just been in a fight does is there any marks or scratches or anything on her that
would lead me to believe that she's recently been in some type of altercation or some type of fight where
she attacked this man right and I think if they would have seen those if that would have been obvious to them or if
any points of the shower or the neighbors didn't you know confirm the argument they would have backed all that
stuff up and they would have piled it up against her to leave to to have the suspicion meter to built more toward
homicide right so that it could be further investigated as such so I think here what I'm going to go off of is
similar to you I my determination from the outside looking in would be yes there is cause to question this right as
a suicide but for me there are more things that point towards suicide as well as the 911 call if if in fact it
was placed immediately that really points to me like she was just doing her best to try to save him and then on top
of that I'm going to factor in the the responding officers they don't seem to know anything in this report that they
believe that she was in some type of fight before this this occurred so I think that I think that
there's a lack of evidence to point towards homicide here [Music] would' like to hear your opinion suicide
or homicide go to True Crim garage.com and go to the blog and let us know your thoughts there also if you're
looking for old episodes download the Stitcher app they're all available for free on the Stitcher app and our weekly
show off the record on Stitcher premium is available just just go to our website
and click on the off the Record link and if anybody wants to learn more about Elliot Smith this great artist you can
find a lot of his music and videos on the internet I would recommend Son of Sam is a good one as well as his
performance in the late 90s on Saturday Night Live if anybody's looking to check
out more of Elliot Smith's good good stuff that he did give to us while he was here I recommend doing that all
right until next week be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] you can start your day off right when
you find a professional on Angie to get your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals
to get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you
Angie that

Elliott Smith ////// 307

Part 1 of 1

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On October 21st 2003 famous singer and songwriter Elliott Smith was found dead following an argument with his girlfriend. At the young age of just 34, Smith died from two stab wounds to the chest. The mystery is whether the wounds were self-inflicted or the result of a homicide. Beer of the Week - Ninja vs. Unicorn by Pipeworks Brewing Company Garage Grade - 4 1/2 bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

Elliott Smith's life and mysterious death are examined, exploring addiction, mental health, and the debate over suicide versus homicide.

Key points

Elliot Smith's Troubled Life. Elliot Smith faced a turbulent childhood and struggled with mental health issues throughout his life.
The Mysterious Death of Elliot Smith. Elliot Smith was found dead with stab wounds, leading to speculation about suicide or homicide.
The Investigation Continues. The investigation into Elliot Smith's death remains open, with many unanswered questions.
Defensive Wounds Dilemma. The presence of defensive wounds complicates the narrative of suicide versus homicide.
The Role of Medication. Medication effects can complicate mental health outcomes, especially in crisis situations.
Prescription Struggles. The speaker recalls feeling incredibly depressed while on medication. "I can't even explain how depressed I was."

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I'm sorry love, Elliott. God forgive me.

Elliot's suicide note found after his death.

13:48WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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