Elliott Smith ////// 307 | Forensic Files

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talk some true crime [Music] Stephen Paul Elliott Smith known simply as Elliott was born in Omaha Nebraska on
August 6 1969 an only child his parents were Gary Smith a den student at the University of Nebraska
Medical Center and bunny Kay Berryman elementary school music teacher seemingly Elliott followed his mother's
creative footsteps with his shared passion for music he went on to become a claimed singer songwriter and a skillful
instrumentalists Elliott was just 6 months old when his parents got divorced following this his mother uprooted to
Duncanville Texas with her infant son it was there where she met her new partner
Charlie Welsh and began what was reportedly agonizing chapter and Smith's young life Elliott was said to endure a
turbulent relationship with a stepfather he claimed his childhood was tainted by
cruelty and sexual abuse his allegations have been denied by Welsh though Charlie
is referenced and Elliott's songs including flowers for Charlie and no confidence man despite his hardship
Elliott found a positive outlet he started playing piano at the age of nine soon after he was introduced to the
acoustic guitar a gift from his biological father around this time Smith wrote fantasy original piano piece when
in him a prize and an Arts Festival at the age of 14 Elliott went to live with his father who was working as a
psychiatrist in Portland Oregon adolescence was a period where Smith found his artistic style he started to
experiment with recording and played clarinet in the high school band I didn't to his repertoire of instruments
he too sang in the bands a murder of crows and stranger than fiction billed as Stephen Smith
or Johnny panic but Elliot was venturing down a darker path within a circle of friends drugs and alcohol were prevalent
this behavior was considered a coping strategy a way to help navigate the inner demons of its youth
after graduating from Lincoln High School as a National Merit Scholar Smith dropped the name Steven choosing instead
to be called Elliott he attended Hampshire College in Elmhurst mass in 1991 he graduated with a degree and
philosophy and political science it was in Hampshire that Elliott formed the ban
heat miser the van made three albums before being signed to Virgin Records and releasing a final album in 1996 that
same year Elliott moved to Brooklyn New York as an artist Elliott's known for his soft almost whispered vocals and
complex it's simple melodies fans of his work have praised his intensely personal
lyrics though there are themes of sadness anger and self-destruction throughout these are layered with the
bare bones vulnerability the writing can be interpreted as both relatable and cryptic and nature in 1997 Elia would be
approached by director Gus Van Zandt Van Zandt wanted Elliott to be a part of the
soundtrack for the upcoming movie Good Will Hunting the soundtrack featured two songs from the album's roman candle and
either/or with the third song miss misery following the film's outright success Elliott received a nomination
for Academy Award for Miss misery despite being in all of the Oscars experience he was quoted to have
described the event as surreal and otherworldly and the background Elliott was believed to be struggling with heavy
drinking and the use of antidepressants major-label DreamWorks sign Elliott in 1998 the album EXO was released the most
profitable accomplishment of his career sadly it was at this point Elliott's mental well-being began to decline
he spoke openly of suicide and reportedly made at least one serious attempt to in his own life when highly
intoxicated Elliott planned to jump to his death his fall was broken by a tree which left him injured but alive
in the early 2000s Elliott's mental health became a serious concern he was likely experienced paranoia and
delusions adamant that a vehicle was following his every move and that his label DreamWorks was plotting against
him breaking into his house and stealing songs from his computer it's noted that
Elliott may have gone days without eating or sleeping and plans to produce a follow-up album to EXO which dissolved
reports state that Elliott complain about the intrusion of his personal life as well as poor promotion of his
previous work he apparently begged the label to renounce all ties therefore ending his contract or else he
threatened to take his own life in 2001 Elliott was said to be smoking up to $1500 of heroin and crack cocaine daily
and may have tried to overdose as a result of a suicidal state his dish of 'old appearance was unrecognizable
during the occasional performances he managed to attend it was known to exhibit alarming signs of awkwardness
and memory loss to the point of forgetting song lyrics in late 2002 Elliott and his girlfriend Jennifer
Shiba were involved in an altercation with the Los Angeles Police Department outside a music concert
allegedly Elliot was trying to defend a man who was being harassed by the officers in question this resulted in a
brawl and Elliot being arrested concerned over Elliot's appearance emerged he was described as looking out
of control after Elliot's arrest things were looking more promising in January and February of 2003 achieved to sell
out acoustic shows at the Henry Fonda Theatre in Hollywood outwardly it appeared he was aiming to regain his
integrity as a performer it's been speculated that Elliot had attempted rehab several times to no avail
I couldn't do the first step he stated I couldn't say what you're supposed to say
and mean it after his 34th birthday though Elliot cut out alcohol and ended his long-term use of psychiatric
medication he also gave up caffeine red meat and refined sugar hopeful of recovery after many years of unease he
began to re-emerge himself into recording exploring different styles and recording techniques elliot played red
Fest at the University of Utah on September 19th 2003 his closing song was the Beatles long long long this would be
Elliott's final performance on October 21st 2003 paramedics were called to Elliot's home in Echo Park
California his girlfriend Jennifer who shared the home with Elliot made the call Elliot was found with two stab
wounds to the chest and he could not be revived at 1:36 p.m. Elliot Smith was pronounced dead and Jennifer's account
following an argument with Elliot she took a shower locking the bathroom door hearing a unnerving scream she opened
the door to find Elliot standing with a knife in his chest on impulse she pulled
the knife out causing him to collapse she promptly called 911 18 p.m. a suicide no written on a post it was
rumored to be nearby the note read I'm sorry love Elliot God forgive me was this the result of Elliot's in her
pain and act that he's been threatening for a long time or is there something more to this story
suicide or homicide there are unanswered questions and mysteries surrounding the
events October 21st 2003 what really happened to Elliot Smith [Music] all right there's a lot to unpack here
and the question becomes suicide or homicide and because of the inconclusive autopsy ruling the Los Angeles Police
Department's investigation remains open on this case so even though most people say it's a suicide why would the
investigation remain open yeah this is a tricky one because we have a situation here where there seems to be some kind
of argument and it seems like it was a big argument yeah and then later what we have is we have one man dead
and then the only person that is there to tell us what could have happened or what led to this individuals death is
somebody that you might suspect could have a reason for killing this man so it's it's very difficult when you only
have this one let's call it eyewitness to to talk to you have to go off of what their statements are and based off of
the scientific evidence that's out there now his girlfriend Jennifer Chiba what she claims is that they were in an
argument for several hours now this is backed up by neighbors hearing yelling hearing doors slam hearing cabinets slam
so that part of the story we could believe what Jennifer is saying because it's backed up by other witnesses so
there are many points of speculation and many things that point to suicide or homicide so we want to dive into each
one of those points the first one being that there is no hesitation wounds so what that means is normally when
somebody commits suicide by knife which is a very small percent of all suicides normally and they actually put this in
the same category as a stabbing or cutting like somebody cutting the wrists they put this in the same category that
is still a very small percentage of all suicides now normally when somebody stabs himself
there's hesitation wounds right meaning there's a couple marks around the actual
area where they stab Elliot was actually stabbed twice which is also unusual mm-hmm now here's where it gets a little
convoluted because the hesitation wounds can actually have been destroyed by him
actually stabbing himself so there could have been hesitation wounds but because
he was stabbed twice those could have got rid of the evidence of the hesitation wounds so these two stab
wounds that that led to his death these are deep stab wounds so what you're saying is there could have been a one or
two quick little stab marks that you cannot detect now because these two are so big yeah and when I originally heard
of Elliot Smith suicide I remember hearing that the rumor was because I was a big Good Will Hunting
fan and to know Elliot through that movie basically that's how I knew of his music I remember the rumor was that
Elliot Smith oh that super depressed singer-songwriter guy yes he took his own life how did he take his own life
he stabbed himself in the heart with the spoon that was the rumor that I heard for years and then I started thinking
well maybe it wasn't the doll into the spoon it would been the handle of the spoon but now having the time to
investigate he okay he stabbed himself twice in the chest or that's what the speculation is so the other strange
thing about there being no hesitation marks is the majority of the people that actually stabbed themselves do so not
through clothing so if they have a shirt on the lifter shirt up or unbutton the shirt and so when they go to stab
themselves his knife through skin and that is it not the case and the Elliot Smith's death he stabs himself through
the shirt and so you're gonna stab yourself twice through the shirt another thing that
points more towards homicide than suicide well and some people might be thinking well that's a crazy thing to
say stabbing through a shirt is very uncommon but straight from the autopsy report here's what we have from their
own words is there are several aspects of the circumstances that are atypical of suicide and raise the possibility of
homicide these include the absence of hesitation wounds stabbing through clothing in the presence of small
incised wounds on the right arm and left hand possible defensive wounds so he was
stabbed with a kitchen knife with a regular one you know just a blade on one side one sharp side kitchen knife
all right so the first point the no hesitation wounds I'm going to say we don't know if they were they're not so
to me that doesn't point either way to suicide or homicide yeah oh yeah I agree 100% the other thing here too is I could
see a situation where there was there was never going to be any hesitation wounds right you know if we have if we
have this guy let's say he's just angered out of his mind mm-hmm we know they're in an argument we know they're
in an argument he picks up what's readily available a kitchen knife from his kitchen and boom one in and boom
another one so according to the coroner report to the autopsy right the cause of
death is stab wounds to the chest each stab wound is considered fatal per se you know meaning if this were to be
untreated for any length of time this guy's going to die right and they say that the second wound appears to have
been deeper than the first because they're saying that there is a periphery a ting wound to the heart
associated with stab wound too well and the situation that gets difficult here is like you said the there they cannot
fine hesitation wounds on this individual so I'm with you it could go either way when
you when there is a an offender stabbing a victim you typically will not see any
hesitation wounds because they are attacking the individual right so on the second point him stabbing himself
through a shirt to me that doesn't seem super likely not impossible obviously but you know the coroner is even saying
hey this is this is something that we look at this leads more to the side of homicide so I go okay
no no hesitation marks I don't know what that means so we can lean on the side of
suicide there but with the stabbing through the shirt I go to me that leans homicide yeah and that's exactly what
they are saying in their report in the medical report this is one of the reasons to point toward homicide rather
than suicide so I'll agree with that as well the difficult thing here is the shirt is described as a black t-shirt
again I could see a situation this guy's so angered out of his mind that there's
there's no cooling down going on for this guy yeah I agree that it could be pick up pick up the readily available
knife through the t-shirt you know taking off the shirt may have provided a cooling down period to go wait a second
what am i doing what am i what what's going on here right and that's I think so we both agree that we'll lean towards
homicide on that point yeah but but but it's not impossible not impossible but I'm going to agree with the expert
opinion here yeah the other one too is that there's actually bone breakage or damage to the bone with the stabbings
and there's two again this is difficult because it's not a situation where he's home by himself and and he's just
depressed and decided that's it he's in an argument but most of the time when they see a suicide by stabbing or
cutting or cutting there is the they're not hitting bone a lot of that time I'm guessing from the
cutting situation would be cutting at the wrists yeah you're not gonna hit bone they're likely I think he should
make the percentage way lower much much lower and I think that the situation here is very difficult to really get a
grasp on what the percentage would be here because of the location of the stab wounds so the location of the stab
wounds it would be very difficult not to hit or break bone right in that location
so but I do want to point out one thing while we're you know talking about these
stab wounds is they do point out in the autopsy report that the stab wounds are consistent with self-infliction okay so
what they mean by that is the angle of these stab wounds it would not have been impossible for him to have done this
himself right so it's not we're not talking about a Fahmy Malak type autopsy report where there's a gunshot wound to
somebody you know in their back or the back of the head and in a weird location this is a location these two stab wounds
are right to the chest to the chest cavity and he could have done this you know from this angle he could have done
this himself or it could be also consistent with somebody lunging at him with a knife well and then you have the
angle of the blade and the rumor that I heard is that the angle that the blade was at is more consistent with homicide
than suicide but with it being such a small blade I wonder if that even matters or if that should be something
that we even take into play that is too difficult for me to get a grasp on from looking at the autopsy report I cannot
figure out if these are vertical or horizontal right wounds the there is a diagram on there now people can find
portions I couldn't find the entire autopsy report but you can find portions of this and it looks to me judging by
reports that I've read in the past and what I can see on the the papers I have here my guess is that this autopsy
report is probably anywhere from 14 to 21 pages long Wow but I could find five pages of the
actual autopsy report so the one page that I have that has the diagram of of his body and where they're marking out
the wounds it's the two wounds that they have here it looks like they're indicating that these would be vertical
stab wounds but I can't say 100% because of the way that this is drawn out and the the notes that were taken on this
diagram are all written in shorthand yeah and so it's it's difficult for me to say what what the medical examiner
was was trying to convey here in this diagram because you know for her it's it's very very likely especially if she
she determines that it's suicide it's a document that is only necessary for her so it's not like it has to be typed out
they would type these out typically and more detail right but that page is missing from what I could find so I
wonder if that has something to do with the fact that they haven't closed the investigation or it might just be the
website where I got this from is not okay so it's not like a typical website where you would go hunting for autopsy
reports they this just might be the portion that they decided to release on their website if that makes sense right
right so they're they're taking a bit of creative control here and decided look a
lot of this is is medical mumbo-jumbo and it won't be of interest to our readers so we will we will present the
the pages that are of most interest or what we think that they will find most entrance interest in but like you were
saying if if in fact these are vertical wounds I mean trying to make the motion myself
with my right hand or left hand that does make it a little more difficult I could see if they were horizontal wounds
it being easier to stab myself in the chest and give more force and thrust right and I think what I'm gonna cross
the chest like as if you're like beating your chest mm-hmm I could see that being
more vertical and but to your point is that if these are in fact vertical wounds that would be more consistent
with a homicide with somebody you know lunging forward and attacking him [Music]
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of Elliott Smith suicide or homicide the other thing that is strange here is like
you said there's defensive wounds and right when you hear the term defensive wounds you go
aha yeah AHA got him but these defensive wounds it's not that simple there's not
a lot of defensive wounds on the hands where you would think somebody that was trying to defend themselves would be
marked up more again though it's also hard to figure out because it's not like we have the knife in front of us and if
it's just like a more of a doll kitchen knife you might not see as many defensive wounds as you would with like
a sharp butcher knife yeah and they're not saying for certain that these are in fact defensive wounds because if they
were 100% on that they're going to go okay this is not only an undetermined death right this is a huh this is a
homicide and we need to look at this or further investigate it into to the point
to where we can say it's not a homicide so the thing with these two wounds and it may be more than two but it says the
presence of a small incised wounds on the right arm and left hand and then they say possible defensive wounds so I
could see you know obviously with the hand you the in a lot of times when there are attacks you see several cuts
to the hands right where the person is able to fend off the attacker for a decent amount of time until the till
their end up they end up being attacked to the point of their death but I don't I don't think I fully understand the the
wound to the right arm it's it's more like towards the chest area right or towards the shoulder area it am i right
about that or you could be from from this report though again this is in shorthand so I don't know what
this mark is indicating here on the right arm it looks like it could be more than halfway up the arm right and this
is where it gets strange for me too because we have reports of them slamming doors and flaming cabinets and we all
know one of our friends that have gotten in an argument and punched something you
know whether it was a refrigerator or a door or in so I wondered is it possible that Elliot was upset and tried to punch
something or and and and maybe there's no evidence of him I once punched a skillet it was the dumbest thought but
at the time you're just an argument you're upset punched he you don't really punch something that you shouldn't punch
and so I just wondered if any of these wounds to the hand would be something that would happen from from that the way
that it's described sounds almost like a some form of cut though which would go to the thought of defensive wound
because of the knife being the what ended up killing Elliot Smith I think the the difficult thing here is I'd we
don't have Jennifer I don't know anything about his girlfriend right I don't know where they line up size-wise
compared to one another if well he was bigger than her but but not you know right and what what I'm getting at here
is that I think that we I feel like I would see a situation if this was a homicide that there would be many more
defensive wounds I agree - Elliot Smith because I think he would have been able to fight her off or fend
her off for a good amount of time and keep in mind we know let's let's pretend he was attacked okay let's pretend for a
moment this was a homicide we know that he would have been attacked straight on face to face right because that's where
the wounds came from yeah it's it's not like we have a situation where we can think that he would have been attacked
but from behind and it was a bit of a sneak attack or anything like that this would be
a situation where he would be able to defend himself for a decent amount of time and I think for me the small amount
of speculative defensive wounds points to maybe those are either self-inflicted or caused from something else once she
claims that you know they're arguing for hours and hours and finally she's like this is nuts right I'm going I'm gonna
take a shower and I'm gonna get away and then once she goes in he's now telling her to come out you know basically a if
you don't come out you know I'm gonna kill myself he's threatening to kill himself according to her right and again
we don't know her but we know his life and somebody that has talked about suicide as openly as he did for one but
- we've seen it time and time again where he would threaten this hey you don't want me you don't want to let me
out of my record contract I'll kill myself that song record so at least we can say
hey there is some evidence that backs up what Jennifer is saying I go to the bathroom we're in this argument and then
it becomes you know come out or I'm gonna kill myself now she says she's only in there like five to ten minutes
for this five to ten minutes is Elliott walking around with the knife it you know does he you know accidentally cut
himself in the hand or does he does he purposely do it who knows we we won't we just don't know but I believe that part
of her story because we have evidence to back that up so it would be interesting
to know which side the blade was on the sharp side of the knife / his wounds and
I say that because with with where this wound is on the arm right I I could see that that maybe because if he did stab
himself he stabbed himself twice in the chest at least right and so we know the knife was removed from the body and then
entered the body again I almost wonder if the the wound to the hand or to the arm if it's a possibility
depending on what side the blade was on could that have been from the knife being removed and the other thing we
should keep in mind too is she Jennifer when she finds Elliott he's still awake and according to her report is standing
at the time that she finds him she removes the knife from his chest yeah so let's unpack this this part of the story
a little bit more well see real quick here but just before it before before I forget this thought completely might
where I'm going with this too is could this have been could he have put his hand to his chest grasping at the pain
and she removes the knife and then that that knife upon that removal could cause
the wound to the hand there's ways that these could be right these wounds could have occurred without them being an
intentional by him or her well yeah and part of that story is that she pulls the
knife from him he collapses look at though that the one chest wound or the shoulder wound whatever were calling it
is it possible when she pulls the knife out that he falls into the knife so because he does collapse so that that's
a possibility to explain away some of those what's very difficult is Jennifer was trained extensively in first-aid and
so she would have known that you do not pull the knife out you just add pressure
you call 9-1-1 you add pressure you do not take the knife out because sometimes pulling the knife out causes more damage
than it does going in there are some people that she has worked with that have came forward and said hey I went to
the classes with her she knew she knew better but then on the flip side the argument becomes yes that's when you're
in a controlled environment there's no panic there's no blood no she comes out of the bathroom because she hears this
agonizing scream he turns around there's a knife in him she pulls it out now people that are gonna say hey this is
homicide but what a great way to cover it up oh he stabbed himself where I stabbed
him I'll just tell everybody I pulled the knife out that explains why my fingerprints are on this knife yeah that
explains why my hands are bloody when you when my authorities show up right and so it's kind of weird to me that
people that she worked with would come forward and say hey we took these classes together she knows better so to
me that part it's again it's tough it's that gray area because there's a part of
me that goes yes she knew what to do in class but you've been in a heated argument with somebody that you love or
somebody that you live with somebody you're connected with somebody that has had a lot of issues and and so then you
freak out and you pull out a knife you do something you're not supposed to do but she did call 911
the the words of the medical examiner are this additionally the girlfriend's reported removal of the knife and
subsequent refusal to speak with detectives are all of concern so this is not our opinion that the removal of the
knife is a concern it's the opinion of Los Angeles County right now I did I did find something sorry because I'm reading
as we are doing this because I was looking for more information on these other what we were talking about just
before the possible defensive wounds we also wanted to cover this a little different we want to have it be more
like off-the-record just kind of a open discussion captain wanted me going into this blind let's say yeah with very
little information or knowledge about the case so according to the body examination from Los Angeles County
a small slight laceration is noted to the palm of the left and right hand and another slight laceration is noted under
the upper right arm as well so under the upper right arm that's a little that's away from the heart so that that's
likely not caused by what I thought of possibly removing the knife after the first stab and then stabbing myself
again but the the thing that's tricky here is but if she removed the knife and he collapse forward the knife could have
hit him under the right arm the small slight laceration is noted to the palm on the left and right hand which is
possible if he's using both hands to stab himself hmm it could have slipped on the second
stabbing yeah so that that's a possibility but again it's strange but also consistent with me putting my hands
up trying to stop an attack but I would expect there where they say small slight
laceration if I've put my hands up and in a way to stop someone from attacking me and I'm hitting the palm with with
that knife I'm expecting to see there's gonna be force there's gonna be power behind that blade and I would expect
there to be these to be deep wounds to the palms I mean you could almost envision a scenario where he's picking
up a knife and test it real quick on one hand right because you I mean if he's determined to do this he's going to grab
a sharp knife and like you said the the the other hand could have simply been from slippage from now we have we have
blood entered into the equation we got a slippery situation his hand could have slipped for the second stab wound and
mind you we do know that based off of the the how deep these two wounds are very likely the second stab wound was
with more power with more force which is strange to me because to me that leans more homicide than suicide because you
would think to the first stab he would be weakened he'd be weakened but again adrenaline I
mean you know hmm you know it's you know it's such a what's also sad about this is here's a guy that went through all
this stuff and obviously had some trauma from his younger days and wrestling with
a lot of stuff but seemed like he was turning turning a corner and even afterwards his girlfriend said it didn't
make any sense because he was so healthy did this was probably the healthiest he
had been since the time she had known him right that doesn't mean that he didn't relapse because you know I think
with depression or at least everybody deals with depression differently but I've always with friends or family
members that don't really understand depression or you know I you know I've had people tell me I've been depressed a
couple times but I don't understand a daily depression or or you just live with depression throughout your life
well to me it's very similar to like alcoholism or something where it's like you wake up and you need to do certain
things every day to kind of keep yourself above that low level and and so is it possible that he was eating better
and exercising and and staying away from drugs and and all that kind of stuff and
then he just but he still had a relapse of things aren't going so well today and
we just happen to get an argument and that just pushes him over the edge well so we have a couple things here and
this is from Jennifer statements we said that you know according to the report that her refusal to speak with
detectives is of concern which should be but in her statement was she stated to either law enforcement or to the medical
examiner I believe this would be to law enforcement is that Jennifer stated that the decedent has
suffered from depression all of his life he had a history of multiple narcotics addiction heroin crack and alcohol abuse
although he had been clean for over one year he engaged in self-mutilating behavior and would burn himself with
cigarettes he has a history of one possible suicide attempt but they go on to say that it's unknown details or
timeframe or circumstances and has a consistent history of verbal suicide threats right the decedent sought
treatment for his depression from several psychiatrist and was being treated with multiple prescription drugs
and according to the toxicology report the only substances they found in his system at the time of his death were all
prescribed medication those you know these are therapeutic medications or that's what their right price for
there's no traces of illegal substances or alcohol mm-hmm because what's not clear as we go hey these these
medications were prescribed what I would like to know is when when were they prescribed and not just saying like I'm
talking about when was the initial hey we're gonna put you on X drug to help you with depression was that six weeks
ago was that he's been on it for a year because sometimes they have reverse effects and I've had friends that have
had a mild case of depression never having suicidal thoughts and then getting on antidepressants instead of it
working now they have suicidal thoughts and so again I wonder is this some were they trying something out because
sometimes it takes weeks and weeks for these to take effect in a good way or a negative way so that could be a possible
reason why this person that was now clean and getting their stuff together and the health
yes quote-unquote he's been since Jennifer knew him that he would be in the state that he would want to stab
himself not once but twice what and medications are such a difficult thing and I I do not I do not care for doctors
that just kind of willy-nilly prescribe things to people I know that that it seems like the medical profession that
people are getting better about that doctors are getting more strict about that and policing themselves as well
have their patient right but that's what happens when the lawsuits happen yeah but I I can recall two situations for me
once I was prescribed Ritalin and I was on it for several months it made me incredibly like I can't even
explain how depressed I was right and that's the only I don't know 100% that it came from the Ritalin but that was
the only thing that was different in my life at that time right and so I you know finally got smart and quit taking
it and then another situation I had where I was going through some anxiety stuff and asked my doctor for to
prescribe something and I cannot recall the name of what I was prescribed but I took it on a Sunday and this was like a
narcotic though this was one of those deals where you get the prescription and it has to have like the stamp like the
it's written on special paper and so I got this thing and I called my doctor on Monday the day after I took one and I
said we got a we got to get some other kind of prescription here and she said what's the problem I said I took one of
these and I felt like I shot gun eight beers like I was I was athle up I mean I was so the medication has been a
difficult thing but according to the autopsy report and according to statements from his girlfriend Jennifer
he was clean for over a year now she stated in this report to that she knew him for four years yeah and that they
were together for one year and they were living together at the time I wonder is
this a situation where maybe they liked each other and she's like look dude you're you're on some hardcore drugs
right clean your [ __ ] up and we might be able to have a relationship yeah I mean
or this is you know somebody she admired and when you know he's really talented but that doesn't mean you want to be in
a relationship with a talent and talented drug addict because that's what he was yeah and as you said Jennifer
pulled the knife out of the decedent's chest and saw two cuts on his chest I find that a strange statement yeah a
little bit strange that she he's wearing a black t-shirt we can assume there's quite a bit of blood involved I don't
know how the shirt would have been tore from those from those two stab wounds right but I think to visibly and to
immediately notice two wounds seems a little strange to me well right but let's okay yes a little bit because he
did collapse right yes so it's one of those things where it's like she goes why I pulled the knife out then I saw
these two stab wounds he walks away from her after she pulls out the knife and then collapses but but then at some
point she calls 911 and yes she then goes over and tries to help him right she called 911 immediately according to
her statement and performed citizen CPR and First Aid with operator assistance until paramedics arrived right and so on
the 9-1-1 call would have at least evidence of that or evidence of her faking that yeah cuz we have seen
situations where people are like no he couldn't have killed his wife he clearly performed CPR on her you can hear it on
the 9-1-1 call and then scientifically they determined later that the the husband faked right you know just
pretended to be doing the chest compressions or any form of C but again when she goes over calls 911 and maybe
she saw the two stab wounds then just making the statement that you saw two stab wounds they're claiming that she's
saying it right away I pulled the knife I see the two stab wounds according to their statement
according to their statement what I'm saying is though as you know before the paramedics get there if she noticed that
there was two stab wounds I want to think that was too odd right because we do know that she if if she's to be
believed she was performing CPR on him at some point would have noticed if she didn't notice them immediately she would
have definitely even noticed the two stab wounds then I would guess yeah and and so then the paramedics come and then
they take him to the hospital and he's yeah he's alive at this time he's not awake yeah I can't speak to anybody but
he technically passes away at the hospital again I think this points more toward suicide because somebody that has
this knowledge quote/unquote this knowledge of first-aid if somebody was going to commit homicide and tried to
cover it up why don't you wait a little bit longer to call 9-1-1 yeah yeah and so it's the you know because again when
you hear stories I mean the first story that I heard was he stabbed himself with
a spoon I remember thinking at the time because I was pretty young and and being
an artist or trying to be an artist think he knew what a artsy way to go the guy stabbed himself with the spoon well
then you come to find out it was not well that's like the telephone game you know what I mean against right or some
guy who goes fishing the fish gets bigger every time he tells the story yeah well that's also that's also like
fandom though right like yeah fans are going in and rightfully so this was a very talented individual and I you can
see a situation where where fans are going he was not a regular man he can't have regular means of death right right
even though he threatened suicide multiple times he would never have taken his own life
and if he did it would have been with a spoon or something dramatic oh yeah although they
certainly in itself let's say let's let's pretend it is 100% suicide you know this is very dramatic a very
dramatic fashion so but again I think some of that is maybe not so much dramatic as it is adrenaline anywhere
else oh yeah and very impulsive and I and I think somebody that struggled obviously he's impulsive I mean he was a
crackhead at one point so I think that is evidence of impulsivity and so you have a situation where he can't control
this he's had a hard time controlling himself okay now I can control it by taking my life or or you know and and
look for all we know he was going I'm I'm gonna do it I'm gonna stab myself and she could have said go ahead go
ahead and stab yourself and a lot of people would go well then she's responsible on some level I would argue
that this is probably not the first argument they had and I'd also probably argue this is probably not the first
time that they were an argument that he probably threatened to kill himself he seems like somebody I mean if you're
threatening to kill yourself to your record label how many other people have you tried to use that right and one
thing I do want to clear up to make sure that we're clear on this is in her statement where she says so in in the
County of Los Angeles in there investigators narrative what they're saying here is he has a history of one
possible suicide attempt but they go on to say unknown details unknown timeframe
unknown circumstances that's because this is just simply her jennifer saying yeah i I think he attempted suicide on
one other occasion but she's unable to provide any details of such so they're they're being very clear with their
statement of that is that they're not definitively saying that he has a history of suicide attempts right again
and it could be some fandom but the there the rumor for the longest time was that he tried to kill himself
in a tree broke the fall which left him injured but he wasn't dead and then there was also reports that he actually
od'd multiple times on drugs and then that becomes 2d just OD because he was using heroin and we're using tried out
or was it on purpose so when you have somebody that it's od'd multiple times then you go okay well which one is it
and then you could also make an argument that how much do you value your life if
you're constantly using these drugs that could possibly kill you every time that you use them this this
is a difficult one for me because I I just always heard these rumors and this was one that was actually brought up by
listeners several times and it would be random it'd just be and it wasn't multiple it was never multiple times
there's never like I got an email that said check out Elliot Smith suicide and and let me know what you think I think
there's something more there well again first looking at it you start going suicide homicide well I think LAPD has
it right right now just open because they don't know for sure yeah and I think they're leaving that open in hopes
that if it was homicide that maybe Jennifer will say something maybe she'll slip up and tell somebody something and
then that is what will lead them down to the charging her with something I don't
think that's gonna happen and I don't know if this case will ever get close just because there's so many things that
point to homicide other you know rather than suicide but I think the suicide note for me and I think that's the last
point but to me the biggest point there is a suicide note yes it's only on a post-it note
right now the rumors for a long time was that you know it says let me read it again doesn't have much to it but a
possible suicide note write it on a post-it note read I am sorry love Eliot God forgive me now the name Eliot there
was rumors that it was spelled wrong cuz Eliot he spells it with two T's and in the coroner's report it was spelled with
one T well that's all it was it was misspelled on the coroner's report by somebody other than Elliot Smith right
so it it wasn't misspelled on the post-it note spelled correctly on the posted note but in the coroner's report
it was it was spelled incorrectly so that was a rumor yeah something that I heard for years
that oh yeah well there was a suicide note it's kind of weird that it's on opposed to note and they spelled Elliot
wrong well and here's here's their exact statement a copy of a suicide note was provided by LAPD detective King original
will be provided on 1020 303 so at the time that this documents created they've not received the original and they just
have a copy right and what they're saying is the note was handwritten on a post-it and stated quote I'm so sorry
love Elliot with 1t God forgive me the note is not dated right so here's here's where it gets weird so detective King
could have wrote this out and handed it to him and said this I'll get you the I'll get you the original again four
years I heard that there was a suicide note but the name was spelled wrong now now we know that that was just it was
just a myth Tyla error yeah so here's where it gets weird cuz we go okay they believe or at least all the speculation
that I've seen is that this note was written by Elliot Smith I am sorry love Elliot God forget
I would like for them to examine just the God forgive me because I am I'm so sorry love Elliott how many fights were
they in that week that led to a bigger fight and is it possible that he just wrote that out and he went for a walk
one yeah just left it yeah and didn't write God forgive me but again everything that I've seen says this note
was written by Elliott now if this note was written by Elliott Jennifer would have walked into the perfect situation
we're in this argument he's uh he's out of control I can't stand I can't stand him anymore I want
him dead I'm gonna stab him and oh look he left this little possible suicide note so now how I can stab him twice
pull it out I'll wait a little bit but not too long and I'll call 911 again I I I think it's more likely this guy that
threatened suicide multiple times was in a state of panic in the state of acting
erratic couldn't control the situation probably was making threats the person on the other end of the threats probably
thought they were hollow threats because they were hollowed threats before he writes this note it's simple but he
wrote it and then he stabbed himself twice and she comes out and yes she should not have pulled the knife from
his chest but again she called 9-1-1 when she could have waited just another five minutes or another 10 minutes or
another you know I mean well in another another note regarding the new it states
here that once the decedent was taken to the hospital police officers arrived and
questioned Jennifer about this incident during this questioning she was seated at the kitchen table and noted for the
first time a post-it note that appeared to be a suicide note left by the decedent Jennifer recognized the
handwriting on the note as that of the decedent and had not seen the note before that moment the knife the knife
the decedent used to stab himself was a regular kitchen knife that immediately prior to this incident had been sitting
out on a cutting board in the kitchen right so the the note according to detective king and according to these
police officers it's not believed that she saw that note beforehand right so they're questioning her they're talking
to her they're trying to figure out what's going on well he's being taken to the hospital right and she then notices
the note but they're there and it looked these guys are trained to read people and they're reading somebody see this
note for the first time well in the thing here to captain is that the way that this autopsy document reads it
sounds like the detectives the exact words our detectives believe this death is possibly suspicious it sounds to me
like they were suspicious of this whole incident as soon as they arrived on the scene right now the problem then becomes
the person that that's dead you can't speak to them they can't give you their account of what happened well now we
have this other person we only have two people in this apartment at the time that this incident occurs yeah so if
they are immediately suspicious they have to figure out is this person who's giving the statement Jennifer is she
truthful well we can't determine some of her truthfulness right here during this
questioning because we need scientific fact we need evidence and stuff like that
to tell us if she is being truthful about the exact incident but what we can figure out is as a whole do we generally
walk away from this conversation and believe her statement as a whole to be truthful so
what they're going to look for are things like okay so according to this document it does not say in here that
that she took a shower but for instance that's something they would use because according to the statement is she took a
shower and then heard the scream this leads me to believe that she had to end her shower abruptly and go out to find
him well first off when I'm talking to this individual does she look like she recently took a shower is her hair still
wet right does she look like she was in a shower that was interrupted okay we spoke to the neighbors yes they heard
shouting they heard some kind of argument so what they're going to do is if they are suspicious of this person
they are going to look for reasons to feed their suspicions or look for reasons to believe her story or her
story is being truthful about points of the story so again if she were to have attacked him we know this would have
been a face to face attack this would have been a head-on attack we see very few possible defensive wounds and then
on top of that they're going to be looking at her and saying does she look like she had just been in a fight does
is there any marks or scratches or anything on her that would lead me to believe that she's recently been in some
type of altercation or some type of fight where she attacked this man right and I think if they would have seen
those if that would have been obvious to them or if any points of the shower or the neighbors didn't you know confirm
the argument they would have backed all that stuff up and they would have piled it up against her to leave - to have the
suspicion meter tilt more toward homicide right so that it could be further investigated as such so I think
here what I'm going to go off of is similar to you I my determination from the outside looking in would be yes
there is cause to question this right as a suicide but for me there are more things that point towards suicide as
well as the 911 call if in fact it was placed immediately that really points to me
like she was just doing her best to try to save him and then on top of that I'm gonna factor in the the responding
officers they don't seem to know anything in this report that they believe that she was in some type of
fight before this this occurred so I think that I think that there's a lack of evidence to point towards homicide
here [Music] we'd like to hear your opinion suicide or homicide go to true crime garage calm
and go to the blog and let us know your thoughts there also if you're looking for old episodes download the stitcher
app they're all available for free on the stitcher app and our weekly show off the record on stitcher premium is
available just go to our website and click on the off the record link and if anybody wants to learn more about
Elliott Smith this great artist you can find a lot of his music and videos on the Internet I would recommend Son of
Sam is a good one as well as his performance in the late 90s on Saturday Night Live if anybody's looking to check
out more of Elliott's myths good good stuff that he did give to us while he was here I recommend doing that all
right until next week be good be kind don't live [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Source: https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-akt3j-b2b73b

Elliott Smith ////// 307 Part 1 of 1 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com On October 21st 2003 famous singer and songwriter Elliott Smith was found dead following an argument with his girlfriend. At the young age of just 34, Smith died from two stab wounds to the chest. The mystery is whether the wounds were self-inflicted or the result of a homicide. Beer of the Week - Ninja vs. Unicorn by Pipeworks Brewing Company Garage Grade - 4 1/2 bottle caps out of 5 Show some love to our awesome Garage sponsors! www.ThirdLove.com/Garage - Find your perfect fitting bra and get 15% off your first purchase Search and subscribe to The Dark Side Of on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcast or visit www.Parcast.com/DarkSide

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Brief Summary

The episode examines Elliott Smith's life, death, and the debate over suicide versus homicide in his case.

Key points

Elliott Smith's Troubled Life. Elliott Smith faced a turbulent childhood marked by abuse and addiction.
The Mysterious Death of Elliott Smith. Elliott was found dead with stab wounds, raising questions of suicide or homicide.
The Dark Side of Beloved Institutions. Exploring the hidden tragedies behind Hollywood and music icons, revealing shocking truths.
Elliott Smith's Mysterious Wounds. Investigating the strange circumstances around Elliott Smith's wounds and the implications of defensive wounds.
The Complexity of Mental Health. Discussing Elliott's history with depression and the impact of medication on his mental state.
The Autopsy Report Revealed. The autopsy report indicated he was clean for over a year before his death.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you.

Host Nick welcomes listeners.

0:53WatchMay 28, 2019

Tension

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