Either/Or | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

Phoebe Judge: This episode contains a description of a very violent sexual assault and is not
appropriate for everyone. Please use discretion. Carl Anderson: I'm Carl Anderson, Deputy Chief, Anderson County Sheriff's Office.
I'm over at the Criminal Investigation Bureau. Phoebe Judge: Carl Anderson began his career with the Anderson County Sheriff's office
in Anderson, South Carolina, 46 years ago. He was the county's first African-American officer.
We met with him in his office at the Sheriff's Department in a building that's named after
him, and sits on a road that's also named after him, Carl Anderson Way. What do you think, after doing this for as long as you've been doing it, what's made
you a good detective? Carl Anderson: Well, number one, I'm not a big talker. I'm a listener, observer.
I observe everything and I listen and, not patting myself on the back, but I think I'm
pretty good at what I do. I love it, and you have to love it. I'd rather work a good homicide than eat when I was hungry.
Phoebe Judge: Really? Carl Anderson: Oh, no doubt about it. No doubt. Phoebe Judge: We went to Anderson to talk to him about a sexual assault that took place
in a Days Inn Motel in 1983. This is a disturbing story, so much so, that the people involved remember it remarkably
well, more than 30 years later. Carl Anderson was asleep at home when he got the phone call just after 2 a.m.
He got dressed and drove to the motel, where he found 23 year old Elizabeth Daniel.
Carl Anderson: It's amazing. It's just a miracle that she survived because the injuries are horrible, horrible.
Phoebe Judge: She'd been raped by three men. She knew one of them, Roscoe Brown, very well.
They'd had a child together, although Brown was married to someone else. When she went to the motel that night, she thought she was meeting only him.
Carl Anderson: And he wanted to break it off. And I think maybe she was asking for child support.
So, I think he did this to discredit her so that she was a person that would just go out
with anybody. And he didn't intend for it to go that far, but everybody got drunk.
And then the other boys, they just went berserk. Phoebe Judge: In what you want to, can you just talk a little bit about what they did
to her? Carl Anderson: Well, they forced her, they had sex with her. Then they had a half a gallon of whiskey and, I can't remember what kind it was, but they
had a half a gallon bottle. And after they finish raping her, then they stuck the bottle in her vagina.
The room was just, when I walked in, it was just bloody, blood all over the place.
But see, they left and she managed to get enough strength to make it to the lobby of
the hotel and sat in a chair there. And it was just soaked, soaked with blood. She almost bled to death.
Phoebe Judge: Elizabeth Daniel lost four pints of blood and was burned all over her body
with cigarette lighters. Newspapers described it as a six hour act of 'unbelievable brutality.'
She was in the hospital for five days. Anderson is a small town. The 1980 census put the population just under 28,000 people.
It's actually gone down since then. And it didn't take long for detectives to locate the three suspects: Roscoe Brown, Mark
Vaughn, and Michael Braxton, all in their 20s. Two of the men, Brown and Vaughn were still in town and very easy to find.
Michael Braxton had gone to Florida. Carl Anderson: Braxton went to Sarasota, Florida.
And we found out that's where he was going, we alerted the authorities there. And actually, they had him in custody and he still had on
the bloody clothes when he was arrested. And I went to Sarasota, picked him up, and extradited him back to South Carolina.
Phoebe Judge: You were driving him? Carl Anderson: I drove. Mm-hmm. I was driving.
He slept all the way back, slept all the way, the entire trip. Theo Mitchell: Well, I was contacted by Michael Braxton's mother.
Phoebe Judge: This is Theo Mitchell, a former South Carolina state representative and a
longtime attorney. He's still practicing today, at age 77. Theo Mitchell: She was a very pleasant lady.
A very nice lady. A very concerned lady, a mother. Her child was in trouble and she sought to get assistance for her child.
And I certainly gave a second thought as to whether I was going to represent him.
But there was no question about the fact that number one, it was stupid. And as such, the way it was done, there's no excuse.
There was no excuse, and there still is none today, for the attack on this young lady who
almost bled to death, literally almost bled to death. Phoebe Judge: Theo Mitchell did agree to represent Michael Braxton.
The other two defendants had their own attorneys. All three men were deemed mentally competent and agreed to plead guilty.
By all accounts, it should have been a straightforward ending to a very gruesome crime.
Carl Anderson said it should've been a self-player, like a self playing piano, but that's not
what happened. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Theo Mitchell: That was no way shape, form, or fashion for that have been a trial by a
jury. It was a plea negotiated. Phoebe Judge: Why do you say there's no way that this could be a jury — was it just
so clear cut? Theo Mitchell: I think it was very clear cut that they were participants.
They were co-conspirators. And it was on the hands of all, under South Carolina's doctrine.
And we had searched all of it, there was no defense. There was no defense. So that story settled on the court's mercy.
I think a jury would have been much more harsh than Judge C. Victor Pyle Jr. So we had worked with the solicitor in negotiating what we thought would be a fair disposition
of the case. George Duckworth: All right. My name is George Duckworth. I was the 10th Circuit Solicitor back when this case happened.
I was the solicitor from 1981 to 2001. The solicitor, most folks don't know what that is, that's like the District Attorney
in South Carolina. Phoebe Judge: He worked with Theo Mitchell and the other defense attorneys on the terms
of the plea. George Duckworth: All three of them ended up pleading guilty. And the judge that took the guilty plea asked for a pre-sentence report.
And then Judge Pyle was a separate judge who actually did the sentencing. And it was, I mean, nobody really expected that sentence.
I mean, we weren't prepared for that sentence. Phoebe Judge: Here's what happened.
First, Judge Pyle told the court it was the worst rape case he'd ever seen. And then, he gave the men a choice.
They could serve 30 years in prison — that was the maximum at the time — or spend no
time in prison, and undergo surgical castration. George Duckworth: There was just dead silence in the courtroom for a moment when he handed
that down. And I think a lot of people looked at each other, wondering if they'd heard it right.
But then after a short time of silence — and there was a lot of talking, going back and
forth, then, a lot of people really surprised at the sentence. Phoebe Judge: Were you surprised?
George Duckworth: I was not totally surprised because I had talked with the judge earlier
and he'd read the pre-sentence report. And I didn't know the judge that well, it's the first time we'd had him.
And I asked him if he'd decided on a sentence yet for the people. And he mentioned then that he thought about castration, and I didn't say anything else.
I didn't know what to think of it. I thought he was kidding at that time, but when I heard it in the courtroom, I knew he
was not kidding. Phoebe Judge: Have you ever been in a courtroom where you've had such an odd choice given,
anything odder than that? George Duckworth: [Chuckles.] No, I don't think so. No.
But Theo Mitchell was probably the first one to say something. He jumped up and objected to the sentence and said it was unconstitutional and he probably
remembers better than I do about that. Theo Mitchell: We all were shocked. Phoebe Judge: Theo Mitchell.
Theo Mitchell: [Laughing.] Castration or 30 years, it's to that extent. Looked at him and said, "Your Honor?"
Phoebe Judge: Had you ever heard anything like that before? Theo Mitchell: No, that was the first one I'd ever heard.
[Laughs.] It was a shocker. And I said, "My God." He said, "That's my sentence."
He said, "Bailiff, take them away." Phoebe Judge: Do you remember what Braxton said to you after the word 'castration' was
used? What his initial reaction was? Theo Mitchell: He looked at me. I was a little shorter than he.
He looked at me, he said, "Castration?" And I said, "Yeah, that's what he said. That's what he said, the judge."
If I'm not mistaken, I said, "Judge, you can't do that." [Laughs.] Braxton questioned me, I questioned the judge, the judge said, "That's my sentence."
And he banged the gavel. Once they bang the gavel, that's it. Shut up, and get out.
Phoebe Judge: Or they'll take you away. Theo Mitchell: That's right. Nancy Jo Thomason: So in 1983, I would have been in the 9th grade.
Phoebe Judge: This is Nancy Jo Thomason. Her father, Glenn Thomason, represented defendant Mark Vaughn.
Her father has since passed away, and Nancy Jo has taken over his law practice in Anderson.
Nancy Jo Thomason: But I knew something had happened when he was on the six o'clock news
that night, and came home. "Let's turn on the news, Dad's on the news." And then the phone started ringing.
And the vision that I have, the visual every time I think about this, is the phone on the
wall in the kitchen. Getting up frequently to answer the phone. And it was ABC News, NBC News, CBS News, The New York Times.
And I thought that something had happened and my dad had become a superstar of sorts.
I mean, I just remember being amazed at this media attention because it had never happened
before. And so I did quickly come to understand what was going on in the case, talked to my dad
about it. "What's going on? Why is this? What does 'castration' mean? You know, what does that even mean?"
Phoebe Judge: Nancy Jo's father, along with Theo Mitchell and the other defense attorneys,
immediately began an appeals process. Her father told The New York Times, "What Judge Pyle is advocating here is physical
mutilation of the men. No court can stand for that." Nancy Jo Thomason: And so the next step in the process was waiting for the South Carolina
Supreme Court to hear the case. Phoebe Judge: Initially, there was some confusion about what surgical castration entailed.
Some said it would make it impossible for the men to ever have sex again, and praised
the judge for handing down a biblical sort of punishment, an eye-for-an-eye situation.
But the surgery does not necessarily prevent a person from having sex. It diminishes sex drive, due to a significant reduction in testosterone.
It also prevents a man from getting a woman pregnant. Defendant Roscoe Brown told reporters, "It comes down to 30 years in jail, or the rest
of your life without children." The criticism was widespread. The president of the National Organization for Women called the sentence barbaric and
said, "It reinforces the notion that rape is a sexual act and not an act of violence."
Others were concerned that the castration option just wasn't enough, it let the men
off the hook and back out into the world. We made several attempts to talk with Judge Pyle for this story, but he declined.
Nancy Jo Thomason: I don't think he likes to talk about the case very much. But, I remember a lot of the controversy of the time, a lot of the things that I was reading
in the newspaper articles that were being written about it, the magazine articles that
were being written about it, the things I saw on TV, was that there was this argument
or this idea: Was this rape an issue of sex? Or was this rape an issue of violence?
And if you took away the urge for the sexual desire in a man, would you take away the urge
for the violence? And was there a way that you could prevent someone from potentially being harmful to
somebody else in the future without having to just lock them up and throw away the key?
I remember those being the issues or the ideas that were being thrown around at the time.
I can't attribute any of those to Judge Pyle. But knowing the type of judge that he is, and I've had court in front of him many times,
I have to say that I feel certain that it was well thought out, that it was well-intentioned.
He is not the type of man, lawyer, judge, just to try to make a name for himself or
showboat or any of those sorts of things. I truly believe that he had some reason to think that he was doing something innovative,
but in a just way. Phoebe Judge: This was the sentiment expressed by everyone we talked to.
That Judge Pyle was a fair, good, and thoughtful judge. Here's solicitor George Duckworth.
George Duckworth: He's an excellent judge. I had him many times after that, and he was always very good to work with, always did
a good job on his sentencing and everything. And he took his job very seriously.
I think it was just such a horrible crime, and I don't think he expected them to take
that option. But he thought that was a good way of expressing how serious he thought the crime was.
Theo Mitchell: I think he was trying to send a message. Phoebe Judge: And Theo Mitchell.
Theo Mitchell: That these types of crimes will not be tolerated. He sent a darn good message.
And I think the message was heard by a lot of people. Phoebe Judge: I don't know if I have a right to answer this question because I'm a woman,
but it seems to me that maybe the idea of castration over 30 years in prison, I mean,
why wouldn't they take castration as an option? 30 years is such a long time. Theo Mitchell: Long time, but one thing about it is when you deal with the manhood...
Well, let's put it this way, when you deal with a man's manhood, sometimes pride is something
that you're willing to adhere to, more than looking at time. [Reflective guitar music.]
Phoebe Judge: As time went on, all three men eventually tried to drop their appeals and
elect for castration. Roscoe Brown actually submitted what's called a writ of mandamus, essentially asking the
court to immediately authorize his castration. But by then, it was too late. The case was already before the State Supreme Court.
And they found Judge Pyle's sentence to be cruel and unusual punishment. Nancy Jo Thomason: This is the South Carolina Supreme Court decision.
It was in 1985. "Castration is a form of mutilation and is prohibited by Article 1, Section 15.
Accordingly, we remand all three cases to the lower court for resentencing in accordance
with this opinion. Brown's petition for writ of mandamus is denied." [Reflective guitar music.]
Phoebe Judge: Today, some states do have castration on the books, but it's so-called 'chemical
castration.' In 1996, California became the first state to approve it. At least eight other states have versions of chemical castration in their laws as conditions
of parole. Individuals receive monthly injections of the same hormone women take for birth control,
Depo-Provera, to lower their testosterone levels. That process is reversed when the injections stop.
Roscoe Brown, Mark Vaughn, and Michael Braxton began their 30-year prison sentences.
But because of South Carolina's old parole guidelines, they were let out early. Very early.
Again, solicitor George Duckworth. George Duckworth: I mean, back then, you could get a 30-year sentence and you were eligible
for parole in a third of that time. And then you got credit for good time and that sort of thing.
And as time has gone on, we now have the 85% rule where you have to do 85% of the sentence,
and then we have life without parole, too. So, you can get a much more severe sentence now than you could back then.
Phoebe Judge: Did that frustrate you ever, I wonder, in the job as solicitor, prosecutor,
district attorney, seeing that there were these crimes going on that really had punishments
that weren't strong enough? And George Duckworth: Yeah, I saw that a lot. I had a real interesting thing happened to me, one time.
I was in a restaurant eating and a fellow came up to me who I had tried and gotten a
life sentence on. And he introduced himself to me. And I said, "I was thinking you got a life sentence."
He said, "I did, but I've already done my sentence. And now I'm out." He'd done about eight years on a burglary that he'd gotten a life sentence on and he
was out. Fortunately, he was a very nice fellow when he got out. Phoebe Judge: According to Anderson's local newspaper, the Independent Mail, two of the
assailants, Roscoe Brown and Mark Vaughn, "went on to lead lawful lives." But the third, Michael Braxton, had been permitted to finish his parole in Tennessee.
And just two years after they'd let him out, he was convicted of raping another woman.
For the last 20 years, he's been serving his sentence for that crime in Tennessee.
Nancy Jo Thomason: The way that this all came back to the surface is, about two or three
months ago, I got a phone call from one of the reporters from the local Anderson Independent
newspaper. And he says, "Nancy Jo, do you remember that case your dad had about 30 years ago, about
that castration case?" And I said, "Of course I do. I was all over that." And he started asking me questions.
I said, "Why on earth do you care about this case now? What on earth could possibly be happening with this case now?"
And he said, "Well, one of the guys that was convicted is coming back to court for something.
He's got a bond hearing." And I said, "What are you talking about?" And he said, "I'm not real sure yet, but there's a bond hearing on Monday."
So I went to the courthouse on Monday to try to figure out what was happening. And 20 years ago, South Carolina Triple P — Probation, Pardon and Parole — gets
notice that he's been — that their parolee has been arrested in another state, so they
issue a parole violation warrant for him. So there's been this warrant for his arrest for violating his parole for 20 years, sitting
in a drawer somewhere, waiting to be executed. So he finishes his sentence in Tennessee.
He's getting ready to be released in Tennessee, they have a hold on him that says he now needs
to go to South Carolina. So he gets brought to South Carolina, they bring him to the Anderson County Jail.
And now he has to answer for violating his parole, which, obviously, committing another
crime at all, but certainly committing another rape, is a violation of the parole that he
had here. Phoebe Judge: On January 20th of this year, the parole board voted unanimously to revoke
the original parole Braxton was given after the rape of Elizabeth Daniel in 1983.
Elizabeth Daniel passed away in 2010. Nancy Jo Thomason: He's starting the second half of his sentence now, more than 30 years
after the original sentence. If he had done the entire time, he'd be out of prison by now.
So that's, to me, the interesting piece of the case is that, here we are, 30 years later
with him starting over, finishing the sentence that he was given way back when. George Duckworth: It's not unusual at all that his parole was revoked.
Phoebe Judge: But even 20 years after the fact? George Duckworth: Yeah, even 20 years after the fact.
Phoebe Judge: George Duckworth. George Duckworth: This guy has shown that he cannot live in society.
That if he gets out, he's going to do it again. I mean, he's already done it twice, you'd think he would have learned his lesson after
the first time. Phoebe Judge: Michael Braxton is now incarcerated at Kershaw Correctional Institution in Kershaw,
South Carolina. His scheduled release is May 10th, 2021. We sent him a letter, but haven't heard back.
Just a few weeks ago, an Alabama state representative, Steve Hurst proposed a bill that would require
surgical castration for sex offenders who'd committed offenses against children under
the age of 12. They'd also have to pay for the surgery themselves. [Shimmery, intense music.]
Criminal is produced by Lauren Spohrer and me. Audio mix by Rob Byers. Special thanks to Alice Wilder and Chelsea Korynta.
Julienne Alexander makes original art for each episode of Criminal, you can see it at
thisiscriminal.com. We're on Facebook and Twitter @CriminalShow. Criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public Radio, WUNC.
We're a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collective of the 13 best podcasts around.
Shows like The Allusionist, Song Exploder, and The Heart. The Heart has a new series out called "Ghost."
It's a collection of stories and essays about what love leaves behind. Speaker, from The Heart: Someone once said to me, memories are like tapes playing on
a loop over and over in your head. Click, press play, pause, rewind. The hum barely heard beneath the noise of our everyday, but every time I press play,
the tape seems to have warped, or maybe I have. It's like being visited by a ghost, a ghost from your past.
Phoebe Judge: Go listen. Radiotopia from PRX is supported by the Knight Foundation and MailChimp.
Celebrating creativity, chaos and teamwork. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Jingle: Radiotopia.
From PRX.

Undergo castration or serve 30 years in jail? These are the options Judge C. Victor Pyle presented to three men in South Carolina back in 1983. These three men were ready to plead guilty to the violent sexual asault of Elizabeth Daniel before their defense attorneys struck a very unique and controversial plea deal. We dive deeper into this case on this episode of the Criminal Podcast.

Music in the episode: “Zither Sprague” by Blue Dot Sessions “You Know Who You Are” by Alan Singley “Nervous Whisp” by Podington Bear “Emergency B-Side” by MADS “Coffee & Cigarettes” by DR

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Episode 39 originally published 2/18/2016 https://thisiscriminal.com/eitheror-3-18-2016

Brief Summary

A 1983 sexual assault case leads to a controversial sentencing involving castration, highlighting legal and ethical debates around punishment.

Key points

Carl Anderson's Dedication. Deputy Chief Carl Anderson shares his passion for detective work, stating he'd rather work a good homicide than eat.
The Shocking Sentence. Judge Pyle offers a shocking choice: 30 years in prison or surgical castration for the rapists.
Controversial Punishment. The South Carolina Supreme Court finds Judge Pyle's castration sentence to be cruel and unusual punishment.
The Heart's New Series: Ghost. A collection of stories about what love leaves behind.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I'd rather work a good homicide than eat when I was hungry.

Carl Anderson reflects on his passion for detective work.

1:11WatchNov 14, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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