Ed Gein: The Butcher of Plainfield (Part 3) | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Elina I'm as and this is [Music] morbid sorry I don't know that was a
great addition I liked it what if I just responded to everything you said today was that would be I I don't know if that
would be encouraging or if it would be I feel like probably not lightly frightening later we should pause cuz
your mail truck just got here and your dog's going to go [ __ ] nuts I think I like this
little I love doing that to Drew just randomly cuz he [ __ ] hates hate that I think it's so funny I do love he
seeing people do it to their dogs though have you seen that like people just like
laughing the dogs like what the [ __ ] I will fight you no Drew will just be like
saying something that like we have to do and I'll be like okay I think I like this he hates it so much he's like
stop I hate that as well I'm with through sometimes I'll just go up into his ear
and do it oh that's terrible Terri Mike's like assault assault and battery it's a lot
to live with me but he chose it he did he chose this little life full cir full cir uh so so hey
guess what uh I there's a sequel to The Butcher and the ren called The Butcher game wrote it wrote it I read some of it
ready to go she's coming out September 17th Mark your [ __ ] calendars you can pre-order it now and pre-orders are
awesome they help me out a lot so if you want to do it that's great if you can't
you want to wait until September that's fine too do what you want do what you want to do okay but pre-orders are great
um and Barnes & Noble has a 25% off on the butcher game if you use the code butcher game 25 to5 I love coupons
butcher game 25 and it goes through September so if you want to wait a little while to pre-order that's cool
too man you can still use that 25% off at Barnes & Noble or get it anywhere else you want to get a book wow okay
this is deeply exciting cuz one de love books two I love you my God three I love
coupons did I say thats I'm just really excited about this all I also excited I think I like this
little life I think I like this little life U but you guys have been awesome awesome and also like uh you're just
really great and you are really being kind and supportive and I appreciate you and if you're not I'll come and find you
but like everybody's kidding and but you've like I put out like that little video and I was like I'm actually
getting like kind of emotional I'm not even kidding made emotional you've been so kind so supportive so wonderful and I
appreciate you and it's because of you that this gets to keep happening so thanks a lot I appreciate it and go
pre-order it if you want to it's long and it's snarly so it's everything you could ever want you know party party but
you know what is not everything that you could ever want I know exactly what is not everything I could ever want um Ed
gin yeah Ed is is really nothing you could ever want or need or con or fath or conceive of really exactly um and I
know these episodes are pretty gnarly uh so if you need a pallet cleanser you can
also go over to the rewatcher we've been having a lot of fun over there I love that show we literally laugh so hard
that we get that like uh scratchy throat kind of thing that happens God last week's episode I think it's last week's
at this point I think in the darkn the darkn you should just go listen we were crying laughing crying go if you need a
little pallet cleanser but you still want to hang out with us which we hope you do uh come on over to the rewatcher
it's getting funny over there and if you've never watched the show that's okay exactly so you just watch it as you
go go go go go go go there you go in the dark the dark angel so yeah so if you need a palet cleanser head on over there
but we are at the conclusion of the G Saga oh and we got through the worst of it I would say this is really the wrapup
this is what happened afterwards this is kind of where he fits in into um kind of
Pop Culture at this point how that evolved um we told you I told you all the terrible stuff the last episode that
was for sure the heaviest one which is why we needed a little bit of a there for this one um when we last left you uh
he had been found and caught and was not super forthcoming about what was happening every once in a while he would
spill spill his guts a little bit but he was he was pretty tight lipped but that
led to a lot of people speculating there was lots of cannibalism necrofilia talk
all these rumors none of them were substantiated at the time they were just rumors because of the maab and very
ghoulish reality of that house and what they found they weren't really going very far to
find these rumors it was just kind of naturally occurring out of this because no one had ever seen anything like this
before and probably never did again yeah I mean this is a very and I think that's
why this case and I'll talk about it later but I think this why this case is so enduring it's because it's
just what the [ __ ] it's like all over the place what the [ __ ] and especially
at this time in period it's like this was like what the the [ __ ] and in the midwest it's like you know America's
Heartland tiny little town where nothing Happ tiny little town and everybody and
everybody knew this guy that was the other thing it's not like this it wasn't the weirdo that no one ever talked to
and no one knew anything about him they knew everything about this guy they grew
up with him right you babysat their kids Jesus stop telling me that I know I can't help it as these rumors of
cannibalism and necrophilia are spreading like wildfire investigators were working very diligently in an
attempt to get just a little bit of the truth or as close to the truth as they could from Ed himself during his initial
interrogation he he had a lot of trouble remembering things or so he said and he
frequently struggled to answer questions but in the days that followed that he was becoming a little more forthcoming
at least as far as the grave robbing was concerned at first they weren't getting
a lot out of him about that but he started to open up more um also while he didn't seem like he was being particular
like boastful or proud of what he' done like he wasn't like oh yeah like this is
what I did he also didn't have any remorse like he wasn't sitting there like being like
crying and being like I can't believe I did this I'm so ashamed he was by no means being prideful about it but there
was no emotion attached to it very matter of a fact very just this is what I did wow like it was just very robotic
that's interesting yeah and he spoke about his quote unquote collecting in a very matter ofct way and that's what he
called it his collecting okay yeah um what a [ __ ] way to very detached like very detached very like I'm not really
understanding why everyone's freaking out here kind of thing um Ed confirmed that to the best of his Recollections he
had taken the bodies from the cemetery and had used various organs and pieces of the bodies to make trophy items and
he explained that sometimes he would open the grave and take the entire body home while other times he would just
take parts of what he wanted and then reberry the casket in the same night okay imagine no your loved one being
dissected in their casket in the middle of the night by this guy no that's horrifying and then the casket is just
shut reburied and you have no idea what he took from them and that's the thing you think about all the people that went
to go visit their loved ones having no idea that their graves were even Disturbed that they're an Inc
complete set of remains yeah and what we'll find out later is like we still don't really know who like they weren't
able to put everyone back comp sad yeah and although they had already endured hours in the G house followed by many
more hours talking to Ed and considering his crimes none of the investigators were at all prepared for any kind of
explanation for why he did this to be honest after all they'd seen and been through but based on the state uh the
state of things at the G Farm investigators had assumed that the explanation was that he had taken the
body parts and skeletons simply as trophies to be displayed and you know like just so we could look at them like
use them as art kind of his own weird maob art that's what they were assuming yeah they were like we're really not
ready for any kind of explanation here and like none of them makes sense but we're assuming that's what it is but the
truth was actually uh much more upsetting MH uh when they asked whether he had ever worn the masks made out of
human skin that was literally filleted off of people's skulls Ed replied that I did he just said that I did that I
did what the [ __ ] but that wasn't the only thing that he did can you imagine being the person that had to interview
him yeah like sit in a room with this man and hear him very and you look at pictures of him and he looks very like
like a normal [ __ ] dude what like I don't understand he looks freaking out an old man that like you'd be friendly
to and be like like oh hey what's going on yeah like and to be in that house and
then to go back to that police station and sit down with him and talk to him I don't know again we were saying like I
don't know how you get over being in that house I don't know how you get over talking to Edge how do you reconcile
those two things together like how do you sit in that room and be like you're the guy I don't know like I don't know
how the human brain is capable of really wild and then to think about like he had
like what like nine masks made out of women's faces that he had skinned off of their skulls and these were recently
deceased women right like that's the thing that he knew in a lot of cases yeah he would he would scan the obituary
you said right and he would know the names he would have interacted with them before and then he's wearing their faces
some with makeup on still that's wild like imagine being these loved ones of these women finding out that this man
was wearing your mom your sister your grandmother's space that's a nightmare around his house that's like Beyond a
nightmare I don't there's so many layers to it that it's just like holy [ __ ] you
can't even consider it all no but again that was only part of his what he he kind of referred to as his ritual that
he would do he had made an entire skin suit from women's bodies and hair and would often wear the suit and he said on
warmer nights he would wear it while wandering around in and outside the house on his property
what thinking about that that visual that visual like a like a bright moon this just like decomposing farm that like
nature is reclaiming acres and acres and ACR of land in the middle but that Moonlight trees like reaching over and
he's walking around in a human skin suit that he made from bodies of women he murdered and dug up in the cemetery also
Imagine and sewed together knowing that you lived close to him and that like you
were just s like you think like what was I doing in my house miles away reading a
book while he was wandering around his property in dead women's skins it's like did he babysit my kid that night that's
it's like did he just go home after babysitting and do that also what the [ __ ] possesses another human being to
make a skin suit and walk around in it like what the actual [ __ ] and that's why
you also know that you are not working with a sane human being here no by no means there is a lot wrong here there's
layers and layers of of Darkness happening here there's not even a word for what this is there really isn't
there really isn't and it's it's honestly inconceivable and it's no one really understood it until the man died
we still don't understand it we're still like like you can you can point to many
things that occurred in his life and know that it's a a wild and horrifying concoction of some of the worst [ __ ] of
course you could think of but then you think that other people turn into this it's like how did that intersection
happen because other people have a similar experience to what I had and it's awful it's it does not take away
from the fact that it's [ __ ] horrible and it's B it's essentially child abuse in my opinion oh 100% can't isolate your
child and oh absolutely it's a lot yeah and there was abuse like it was like I mean like they she neglected the other
the other you know Henry and she was she was mean exactly she was awful to them but so many other people have probably
gone through similar things and don't do this that's the thing and it's like so and just don't know what the what's the
thing that makes a person go that way that's why I'm like is it is it and obviously this is us
just like thinking out loud like we don't know what we're talking about but it's like is it brain chemistry that is
the is the kind of the straw that C back kind of thing like it's like your unique
brain chemistry either you go one way or you go this Myriad of different ways like yeah I don't and I I don't know if
I don't know when we'll know I don't know if we'll know I mean it's just it's so complex it's not the same thing but
it's like why does some people like certain music and other people [ __ ] hate that music true does it have
something to do with like some unique brain chemistry that all it that it takes you know this perfect storm of
trauma and abuse to turn that chemistry a certain way you know like is it well and I think I definitely think part of
it is what you're exposed to or what you expose yourself to and I think and this
is just my opinion I think those magazines that he was they fed whatever this Darkness was 100% yeah he I fully
agree with that and like could possibly have like changed his brain in some way yeah it absolutely could and he gives a
little bit of insight into some some times that he per personally which like obviously he's
a very unreliable historian of his own life but he points to one in particular instance which is
interesting but I do agree with you that I think he fed himself his loneliness and his
isolation was one thing and he did he was isolated felt lonely just you know grief from his mother dying the [ __ ]
up way he was raised yeah whatever happened with Henry his brother which still up in the here are we but kind of
seems like there was something there and it's like and then he's feeding himself
nothing but violent Fantastical and and these aren't like you know the these aren't all like Fiction it's not like
he's sitting there reading horror no you know what I mean like that's whatever like you're just like this is literally
likeing the worst [ __ ] that real human beings the atrocities that are being committed against other human beings you
know what I mean and he's and he's looking at it and being like that sounds interesting something I want to try like
that's the thing it's like that's where the the the road diverges disconnect he's not just reading horror books or
something like that or you know it being like I like to be scared that's fun you
know like that's a totally different brain chemistry but to look at the real atrocities that human beings are are
committing against each other and saying well that sounds fun right that's when it's like you're feeding a darkness that
was already there yes yeah so that's what he was doing so people around that farm just going about their business
while that's happening god um when asked why some of these body parts that they found in the in the house had been
painted or like embellished some had been salted you know like we talked about one of the volvas was like covered
in salt yeah that's part of where that rumor probably came from of like cannibalism yeah but he explained he had
simply been trying to find effective ways of preserving them I was going to ask that yeah that was my asso but in
the ' 50s especially likei they have no [ __ ] clue when you hunt like isn't don't you like pack it
in salt or something I think so at least well it makes sense I mean salt is a preservative so yeah and I mean that's
what they used to do like way back when so yeah exactly but well Ed seemed to have No Reservations about confessing to
some of the most shocking crimes imaginable he was strangely less forthcoming and Cooperative when it came
to the murders of Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden interesting um following a polygraph exam he confessed to killing
Hogan and Warden but he did so very reluctantly and only after it was pointed out that there was a veritable
mountain of evidence pointing to his guilts like they were like you literally can't get out of like you have to wonder
or at least I'm wondering if that's because like his religious upbringing explicitly says like that sh not kill
and obviously like Thou shalt not do all those other horrific heinous but it doesn't explicitly say all that I feel
like that packed a a different kind of meaning for him that he was a murderer yeah and I think he looked at the other
things as he from the way he seemed to talk about it was these women were dead right like what were they doing with
that stuff like I need it right kind of thing you know what I mean like he looked at it from a very detached like
they didn't need it anymore why like why is this a problem like maybe it's weird
to you but like right it's not bad what I did you know like that's [ __ ] really
[ __ ] like incredibly [ __ ] but I think that's what it was is that he didn't think he was wrong for that no he
I think he was like sure maybe you find me gross or weird but like I didn't do anything wrong it's a dead person like
what do you mean which like no that is wrong like of course I can make art out of their flesh and it's like no and then
when it comes to murder though he knows that's bad he knows that's illegal he knows morally that's wrong and he's
preaching morals all over the place and his mom was always screaming morals at him which she had a very skewed [ __ ]
view of morality and we'll get to that in a minute too you we'll find another instance where it's like austa really
but not another one yeah but but yeah I think you're right I think it's like murder was something he just knew was
wrong exactly so he knew by admitting to that he was admitting also he probably thought he was admitting in front of
technically his mom yeah the he had done the ultimate sin right uh so as for the other crimes that he was
suspected of a spokesperson for the crime lab indicated they had not made any determinations as of yet like
meaning they didn't know if he was a cannibal they didn't know if he was a necrophiliac yeah uh the Press was told
an avalanche of physical evidence has been recovered which will take weeks and possibly months to completely evaluate
in process but based on his responses during the polygraph examinations because they brought up the cannibalism
they brought up the necrophilia they also brought up the several people that had gone missing in the pre like we had
talked about like Evelyn Harley Georgia weckler like all those cases that were kind of open and strange they brought
those up um and investigators after the polygraph were reasonably confident that
g had nothing to do with the disappearances of Evelyn Harley Georgia weckler or any of the young women who
had gone missing over the years I think that's a little sus I I'm not placing all my [ __ ] on a polygraph
exam no obviously and it's like and especially one where the guy doesn't really understand that that's something like
taking people's body parts from their graves and using them as soup bowls is wrong and not just gross and weird MH I
don't know if we can look at that polygraph the same way cuz he his like his physiology is not going to react the
same way to a question like that you know what I mean like he's not going to think he did something wrong so he's
going to be like well no that's why polygraphs are so tough yeah cuz it's like this guy has a very different view
of what is wrong right weird strange and the like like he's not it's just not going to have the same Baseline yeah so
like there was some stuff that we talked about in part two that like kind of made
you question the Evelyn Harley thing I'm not saying he did it I'm just saying there's things that still make me
question it a little bit yeah and it's like and if you're just going off the polygraph exam to say like
they're we're pretty sure he didn't do it I'm like I don't know cuz he had and obviously not that this is like a
Smoking Gun by any means but he had newspaper clippings of the her disappearance reports said that he did
yeah his house yeah so whether he was just interested in the case knows you know there's very but that that is
interesting you know at the very least how a polygraph isn't going to really work the same on on somebody like this
but for a Time the grave robbing and trophies were effective at quelling his anxiety he
said about his mother dying and it would help quiet the voices in his head he said okay so that can tell you a lot
sure uh but after a few years he said they were no longer a sufficient means of coping and he was struggling so one
afternoon he said he stopped into Mary's Tavern with a neighbor and was struck by
just how much Mary Hogan resembled his mother physically they do look similar yeah and he said it soon occurred to him
though that while she definitely resembled her physically he said Mary Hogan's personality was almost the polar
opposite of who he believed his mother to be mhm and Ed fixated on Mary for a few weeks until one morning he said he
just went to the tavern and shot her in the back of the head with a 32 Caliber Mouser pistol wow once he'd killed Mary
Ed loaded her body into the back of the truck and brought her back to the farm and hung up her body in the summer
kitchen where he proceeded to mutilate her body in the same manner that he had Bernice warden so Mary Hogan went
through the exact same thing that's horrible the murder of Mary Hogan seemed he said to satisfy this dark need or
urge that he was feeling he said for a few years wow until the fall of 1957 when he murdered Bernice warden so
that's very interesting and also a very horrifying study of this guy according to him went years which is interesting
yeah cuz it doesn't happen obviously it happens but it doesn't happen like one of those like strange occurrences where
it's like one then years later you don't do it again until years like it's allegedly but I do wonder if it's
because he had her around for years I think yeah it's like was part of it yeah I think it is part of it um with each
new story published about Edge the American public's fascination is just growing I mean this is a this is a new
thing like no one's ever seen this to the point that guards had to be appointed to the G Farmstead to keep the
public from entering the home digging through the contents of the house and contaminating evidence or otherwise
influencing the case I would not want to go there while that was an active crime
scene no thank you you want to you really want to stumble upon that horror voluntarily that's the thing you want to
what what are you doing like come on you sure about that you sure about that but
for three weeks a full-time security guard with support from County deputies guarded the property Around the Clock
until crime scene technicians finally finished the excavation in early December wow um so psychiatrists and
medical professionals had a field day with Ed obviously uh they labeled him and these are people who weren't seeing
him had never met him just speaking out of turn which like isn't it true that you're not technically supposed to
diagnose somebody you've never met no you're definitely not supposed to uh they were lab in him a sexual psychopath
a schizophrenic and many other terms that at that point in 1957 the American public had never even heard of wow like
they had no idea what any of this meant and in the meantime Ed was being arraigned at the wasara courthouse for
the murder of Bernice Warden standing before judge Herbert Bundy Ed's attorney William belter spoke on Ed's behalf and
pled not guilty by reason of insanity given the evidence collected at The Farmhouse it was kind of hard to argue
anything else so judge Bundy accepted that probable cause had been found and waved the preliminary hearing and
ordered that Ed be bound over for trial so in total the hearing took three minutes wow uh in the week that followed
his arrest many people tried to get more information from Ed about the murders about the items found in the home but
aside from his initial police interview his answers were mostly I don't know and
I don't remember Adams County Sheriff Frank surl suspected Ed knew something about The
Disappearance of two local Hunters a few years earlier really and had hoped now that he was under arrest that he might
be a little forthcoming with some information but Ed had nothing to say and now I'm like well I want to know
more about that like yeah cuz I'm like that's interesting CU you could see something like that happening two local
Hunters like they're in maybe they've stumbled on his property or something like that literally like Texas jsaw
Massac literally like Texas Chainsaw Massacre like cuz as we'll find out later and as some of you I'm sure know
Leatherface and that whole family is kind of loosely inspired by these events yes but yeah he had nothing to say about
that huh not not that he like you know he didn't do it he just had nothing to say about
it yeah what he wanted at this time and he had been requesting it for several days was to speak to a
minister so on yeah what [ __ ] Minister wanted to go talk to or obviously didn't want to but had to go
talk to Ed G well on November 22nd shle finally got around to bringing one into the jail house how do you convince that
that person to go do that well so it's impossible really for us to know if if anybody like who Ed had in mind when he
requested a minister but I'm willing to bet that he definitely wasn't going to ask for Reverend Kenneth Engelman um he
was only 33 years old he looked a lot younger than 33 he was also of a different Faith he was Methodist and Ed
was Lutheran oh okay um Ed was pretty pleased to see him though like I don't know what he was what he wanted I'm like
he's not the same religion as you but maybe just to confess his sins yeah maybe it was just some kind of comfort
and afterwards like after they spoke which I was like whoa um Reverend Engelman held a press conference and he
told reporters how it went he said Ed G is a man who needs help yes and according to englman the two prayed
together in Ed's cell and that's when inside of the cell I be like we can do this bar separating us bar separating us
girl but Ed began sobbing and he said he was quote sorry for himself for having gotten in
trouble and then he said what and so a reporter so you hear that and you're like so you're just sorry you got caught
and it's like you weren't even trying to pretend that you were crying for something else that's what makes me
think like he has no idea what's right and wrong no idea he's just like like or that like he's just detached he's
totally detached from this yeah cuz obviously he knows like just the fact know right and wrong right of course but
like he just doesn't see it the same like this is not a man who is looking at things the same way that you or I am
like you know what I mean like this is and he's just outwardly being like I'm just really sad that I got in trouble
you know what the [ __ ] and so reporters asked him whether he expressed sorrow for the persons he had injured and
Engelman said no he never did he never expressed Sor sorrow or remorse for any of
it which is so [ __ ] monstrous so beyond and if that was your family member you would want five minutes in
that cell oh it would be on site I'd be like let's go like this would be like yeah finish him but you also be
terrified you'd be like like obviously anybody who murderers somebody is a monster but Ed goes so far beyond
monster in a in a completely like you can't comprehend him no and I keep say there's just no words it's Indescribable
what he did and how he reacted to what he did yeah and even he doesn't seem to fully like he points to things that he
thinks is the reason and it's like I think he holds those as his reasons and it's like okay like what yeah but you
just think of it's hard to like grasp it all at once cuz it's there's so much in
this that you're just like I can't conceive of this but you just have to think of this man sitting in this house
which he's boarded off his mother's bedroom as like a shrine and he's sitting in just like filth and
surrounded by dead bodies decapitated heads and body parts all day and all night that man is closing his eyes
in a bed where full articulated skeletons are attached to the bed I don't know what to say there's no
this doesn't seem real that's why when movies were made later yeah Cinema magic cuz it's just like that's not real and
then you think about it and you're like oh my God that's real was yeah like that's real [ __ ] that's so
inconceivable you think of these like he's just going been surrounded by death it's one of those things where you would
read it in a book or like see it see it in a movie and say that's too much and You' be like wow an imagination like no
it is real oh just the fact that he had no remorse none no sorrow and Noor just for himself now while the press clamored
for any scrap of news they could publish on the story um and he was called at one
point the ghoul Slayer which I was like I don't know about that I don't know about that district attorney Earl kylen
and Ed's attorney were locked in an increasingly public battle over how the case should proceed in the legal sense
uh having entered a plea of Not Guilty by reason of insanity William belter was pushing hard for Ed to be examined by a
private psychiatrist as soon as possible I can understand that yeah so because he
said the the defense in order to have any evidence of value must obtain it now and while Edis and this was all while Ed
was still willing to talk this guy would shut down at a moment's notice so they were like we got to get this going now
while he remembers it while it's fresh while the while we can at least try to get him talking like if he goes silent
we're not going to get anything and obviously like you you don't want it to benefit the defense because like you
don't I don't think there's any chance that this guy would have walked he just would have gone to like a a mental
facility like a hospital but it would also be helpful for law enforcement and agencies like start understanding what
is what we're looking for here what's this profile what's happening in this brain like what you know what is in his
past that triggered certain things that he's done you know even if just to help like people who profile or yeah anything
honestly it's like you you need this and belter told reporters the important question is whether Edge is insane now
not three five or 10 years from now which is true yeah but kyen or kyen on the other hand was pushing for a speedy
trial he just wanted to push it through now G appeared before judge Bundy a few weeks later and this time kylen had
changed his stance and actually shocked Spectators when after Ed um entered a second plea of Not Guilty by reason of
insanity the district attorney recommended that he be evaluated by psychiatrists at the Central State
hospital before proceeding with the trial wow so he's now changed his tune to be like we should have this guy
looked that I wonder how much sa like family members got in that I wonder too because I I doubt a lot to be honest
probably not back then and honestly this was a politically risky stance he took yeah because um according to sheer most
people felt hospitalization would be tantamount to him getting away with murder especially in the 50s you can
understand why people would feel that thought it was just going to be him getting away with it well there was no
mental health awareness whatsoever so kylen couldn't ignore the fact that what they'd seen at the G Farm was well
outside the bounds of Sanity like he was like I can't pretend that this is sane what we saw like there's got to be
something here you know and he said I don't know whether a person in his right mind would do that sort of thing or not
and then he and that's what he conceded he was like I guess we've seen bad people do bad things but like this is
kind of outside the scope of that so I don't know and I'm glad he kind of like went this way cuz he's like I can't say
whether this is sane or insane behavior and like I think a psychiatrist needs to
tell us like none of us can determine this well the judge agreed and ordered the examination now there was no
question that Ed had murdered Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden uh he would be punished for those crimes but the other
bodies found at the farm presented a larger problem for the district attorney specifically where were the additional
victims that Ed simply refused to take responsibility for like we don't even know who everybody is in this house and
we need to return people back to where they were resed although he had already explained that the bodies and body parts
discovered in the house were taken from graves few people in planfield including
some in law enforcement found it plausible that Meek little Ed G had the were withal or the strength to dig up
all those bodies a lot of people thought he killed more people I get it and I don't blame people for thinking that and
people in law enforcement thought that I kind of lean toward that opinion besides
they reasoned wouldn't someone have noticed if random Graves had been dug up around the cemeteries in town like no
one noticed this because the sheer number of things and body parts and everything that was found in his house
and I was just saying earlier like you would go to your loved one's grave and visit them because again these are
recently deceased people exactly and we were talking about nine masks he made that's nine women who he skinned the
faces off of but also what I'm thinking is he did go after recently deceased which means recently buried so it would
be harder to determine that those were Disturbed Graves that's a good point the is already Disturbed yep recently yep
that's a good point so you can look at it both ways I can understand why people were like would we have not noticed this
it's like Maybe not maybe you're right like maybe maybe that is wild to think about and to be like okay maybe he kills
more people than we think and he's just doing this right but on the other hand he did go after recently deceased like
their obituaries were right in the paper that week and the dirt was and the dirt
was already recently Disturbed so he could have just gone and put it back and it really wouldn't have looked any
different so there's that you also think about that and you're like is that why you did
that well that's the thing I'm like that's pretty diabolical and like you have those I don't want to call that
reasoning but like it sort of is but that kind of like your brand of logical thinking you
know like where you're planning this out because you know you won't get caught that way right and it's the same thing
of like he went into Bernice warden's store with ammunition in his pocket and went to the gun that he knew that
ammunition went into and knew well that her son was going to be off the of for so there's a lot of like premeditation
here as well right but there's also a lot of insanity so it's like that's why it is necessary to get
him looked at by a psychiatrist cuz none of this makes sense none of it correlates but in this case though the
only way to be sure the bodies at the farm weren't additional murder victims was to get Ed to identify the bodies at
the house and disiner the caskets and confirm that they were missing from their plots and did they do they tried
to do that well the thing was wasara County was in relative like Financial straight like they weren't doing great
it's not like they had all this money to throw around it was a small community it
wasn't like you know very equipment needed and the g investigation and trial threatened to eat up a huge amount of
the County's budget in the prosecution of the Hogan and Warden cases alone so the idea of adding 8 to 10 at least
disinterment to the price tag and the cost of processing any additional evidence it seemed unwise and a little
from what they their point of view at the time they felt it was unnecessary okay also it was the dead of winter so
the process was going to be a lot more difficult and a lot more expensive if it was even possible to do it that timez
it's Frozen um still when Ed was arrested kylen vowed to the public that he would do everything in his power to
ensure that Ed would never walk the streets again and given his recent agreement to the psychiatric evaluation
he needed something to offset the appearance that he was going soft on the case now cuz he was people in Playfield
want this guy gone like done which I can't say I blame him no but he's now looking at it from an inside perspective
seeing all the evidence that everybody's not seeing seeing the interviews seeing
all this stuff that's why he's gone to this like he should be evaluated yeah but that also opens up the possibility
that he could walk the streets again he could be let out of a psychiatric facility when he is deemed sane and
that's terrifying yeah and that's the fear CU how do you reform that and he's vowing to the public he'll never walk
the streets again but now he's saying he does need a psychiatric evaluation he might need to be in a hospital so it's
like he's really teetering which I I'll give it to him it sounds like he was going with the right moral stance of
like I can't just posture to people I have to be real and be like do the right thing seems like this is a a matter of
like we got to determ in the sanity here now surprisingly Ed was mostly forthcoming with the identities of the
women whose Graves he'd opened and by early December he'd named at least seven okay however before kyen and some local
Cemetery workers would charge in and dig up the graves State Crime Lab Chief Charles Wilson loudly protested to this
he told kylen and the Press we can determine scientifically if the graves have been quote unquote molested that's
how he called to put why um so they needn't dig up and open the caskets okay um but kylen answered and I can see
where he's coming from he said scientific findings won't convince the people these people in plan Fields want
those Graves opened I get what he's saying and it's true they're not the people of plan fields are in 57 are not
going to hear like scientifically we can tell if they've been disturb like they're going to be like [ __ ] no open it
up I want to see like they're not going to believe you yeah like I want to know for sure yeah they they've been [ __ ]
up by this they want to know absolutely so the problem as far as kyen saw it was
that soil analysis and scientific testing could also take weeks or months and he didn't expensive too exactly and
he didn't think the residents of planfield were going to be willing to wait that long to find out whether Ed
was bullshitting them or not so while kylen and the State Crime Lab were arguing over whether or how to disiner
the graves of the locals Ed was transferred to the Central State Hospital at won and and instantly became
the most infamous patient the hospital had ever seen uh head psychiatrist Edward Schubert told reporters our
primary purpose is to determine the legal question of Gan sanity but we will do a complete work up on him and find
out just why he has reacted in the way he did now in the meantime Ed had a theory of his own about what caused him
to snap and he finally was open about talking about it um he talked to to his lawyer actually about it first before he
or like while he was being being transferred to the hospital according to Ed in 1945 he and his mother had visited
a neighbor Farm to purchase some straw mhm and he said while they were there they went and this is really awful I'm
kind of brief mention of animal cruelty so trigger warning I'll Breeze over it um while they were there they witnessed
the farmer kill a puppy oh God which caused a woman to come running out of The Farmhouse hysterically imploring him
to stop of course the scene very much upset Augusta G yeah not because of the violence she didn't give a [ __ ] about
the puppy but because the woman quote wasn't married to that farmer and shouldn't have been at his
house are you [ __ ] kidding me no I'm not [ __ ] kidding you yeah so she what and that's what you
tell your kid Miss austene like that's what you tell your kid to gather from that situation Miss austa watched a man
violently kill a puppy and was upset because a woman who got upset about it wasn't married to that farmer and
shouldn't have been in his house also you don't know why the [ __ ] she's there in the first place and also gets so
[ __ ] Augusta like are you kidding me what yeah what yeah it was the farmer's immorality and wickedness Ed claimed
that because that or the far the woman's immorality and wickedness that Ed cleed
had caused his mother's second stroke and eventually her death which led to his unbearable loneliness and drove him
to violence what yeah what yeah what yes I yeah what yep yep yep make it make sense I will not
there's no way I cannot that I cannot do uh Noe I yeah that's what that's how broken that is up there what the [ __ ]
dude he said that with his whole chest that that's what led him to do this you have to wonder what other instances they
ran into as a Duo as a Duo and austa was like that too like what and you would think with that when you first hear the
the beginning of the story you're like oh my God he watched like a farmer like hurt a puppy like that's [ __ ] up and
that'll like really stay with you no it's not that I thought you were going to say he was like [ __ ] up and like
got excited that that happen he breezed over that although there was something he also said and this is really gross as
well I'm just going to Breeze over it because I think it's important to at least mention um he said when he was
like eight years old right like really young he walked into a shed on the farm and saw his mother and his father like
um preparing I think it was a pig okay um which they had like cut open like it's
pretty horrific yeah um essentially they're like it was like hanging like Bernice and Mary were and he said it
excited him to watch that happen so there is another quick little insight into into that mind of his at a very
young age that's the thing he was so young when that happened what did you just say eight I think he was he was
somewhere around that age like very young what the f so that leads you to believe like you're already like
something innately is [ __ ] up in you and you're just seeing too much and you're being exposed to a lot
of Big Ideas you know so God only knows what literally God only knows what Augusta was saying it's true so that's
interesting so Ed's explanation is very obviously like the delusional justifications of a very broken mind
like that is you're like no I don't think that works said um but his self diagnosis did reveal something about his
actual motive which is from the moment Ed was born Augusta G had done everything she could to impart to him
her belief that women's wickedness was responsible for all the world's problems it was women's wickedness like in this
story about the farmer and the dog it wasn't the farmer it wasn't the farmer's explosive Act of unbelievable cruelty
and violence that started her into her second stroke it was the fact that he had been in the presence of a woman to
whom he was not married that's also just the fact that she was like like they're just in each
other's presence yeah I'm like but you're out his house so like are you wrong yeah you like what are you you're
interpreting so much from that woman just being at his [ __ ] house yeah you're at his house and she's just
driving into this kid that women are responsible for everything bad in the world they will [ __ ] with you they are
wicked they are manipulative don't trust them they want to ruin you they want to
take you from me like all this [ __ ] at such a young age and what is he going to
look at woman like later I'm like Augusta what did you want out of this that's what I don't get like I'm like
what was the end game it was so self- serving I don't think there was an end game for Ed there was an end game for
her yeah that's all it was she's taken care of right and who cares what happens afterwards that's another level of evil
too that really is she did I mean nothing compares to what Ed did and where he went but like but that's a
totally different Side Story of Evil as well that is evil but also it wasn't Augusta's Relentless psychological abuse
that led to his murdering Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden but the fact that those women had so closely resembled his
mother physically but betrayed her saintliness in character to him like that was his reason for those cuz they
were like boss [ __ ] doing Boss [ __ ] stuff exactly CU they were just doing their thing William belter told
reporters oddly he blames the women if she or she blame he blames the woman he's talking about the farmer one oh oh
okay he said oddly he blames the woman if she hadn't been there his mother wouldn't have had the stroke and he
wouldn't have been left alone that's what he looked at it as if that woman wasn't there so it's her fault I would
have just watched this farmer Cru kill a puppy I would have been fine like that's what he's Justified
like that's it that's inconceivable to me it really is I'm so shook now almost immediately
following his arrival at Central State Hospital in early December Ed started a battery of tests that would take nearly
a month to complete um there were some that were physical tests um like extensive examinations of his body his
blood uh biological and physiological functioning all of these were determined to be
within normal range for a 51y old man physically he was fine okay uh despite that Ed seemed to find the physical
examinations so frustrating and so daunting he would frequently whine like a whiner uh about headaches and nausea
and he would complain that he needed a wheelchair he was only 51 are you kidding me I like you were dragging
people out of their graves and bringing them home you kill two women and you strung them up and mutilated them and
you're complaining because you might have to walk on a [ __ ] treadmill that's shut up shut up Ed shut up
another common complaint for from Ed and this is interesting was that he he said
there was a lot of offensive smells that he would smell that the hos yeah thank you I know Ash is losing her mind no
[ __ ] what yeah like you lived in that house you lived in that house full of every we know it was full of and the
hospital okay Mary Cosby what that's what I have so I have a theory I have a theory uh so he would he would say all
these offensive smells were happening that the hospital staff was like we don't smell these like what are you
talking about and finally one of the doctors was like what does it smell like what are you talking about no he said it
smells like flesh don't you like that I can tell you 100% with 100% certainty after performing an autopsy I have the
smell in my nose for a little while yeah it sticks around and sometimes things food will
smell like it it it sticks for a minute and but that's just doing an autopsy and
it goes away living in a place where all you smell 24/7 is the smell of Flesh and
decomposition I wonder if it was just there he just smelled it but he wasn't complaining when he was at home but
that's what I mean you go smell blind while you're there and then you leave and all of a sudden you're like like why
do I smell this everywhere like I would be like do I smell like it like I would make John smell me like but while you're
in there you're just doing your thing and I'm obviously saying an autopsies so I'm imagining in his home he would not
really notice it because he's there all the time what but then he's going to this place that's clean and like
probably smells like cleaning products and other things like that like clinically clean I'm like maybe he
doesn't like smell of his environment and I think it's triggering I think that smell is stuck in cuz I
don't know this was right after so it's like I don't think that was the case for
the rest of his life that he would smell these foul smells all the time I think it was like maybe he was still just
smelling what he was living in for the last however many years that's Bonkers to me I truly like I see what you're
saying and I definitely think that could be it cuz I haven't had that experience
but I [ __ ] wonder if that guy just didn't like the smell of clean but he said it smells like flesh that's what he
was saying no they literally a doctor said Ed what does it smell like and he said it smells like
flesh what the [ __ ] and that man knew what that smelled like he wasn't confusing cleaning product no and you
sat in your house and like did nobody say to him Ed you don't think your [ __ ] house smells like flesh well
then I'm wondering I'm like this is a hospital environment they've done you know they've done autopsies they've all
been through gross anatomy they've smelled body smells sure I wonder if they're like that's it like your
probably smelling what you smell when you're around it that is and you're coming out of that environment now and
it's stuck in your nose this just gets more [ __ ] up as we go I'm it's real [ __ ] up what but yeah
so the ne and also I want you to picture like being a doctor and like this guy just keeps complaining about the bad
smells and you're like Ed what does it smell like and he just says it smells like flesh I'd be like I got to go like
I'd be like I'm retiring today no I'm just this wasn't what I wanted today here's my two that's a lot anybody who
says it smells like flesh it's like what the [ __ ] Ed now the next step was the
Baseline psychological and neuros pychological exams and the doctors at Central State yeah they established that
Ed had an IQ of 89 which would put him in the low to average category some sources I found
did say 99 which would put him more towards the average okay he wasn't exceedingly low you know like it's not
like he was like down at the bottom well if you think about it he left school in
eth grade so a lot of that like testing is probably just like basic stuff you learn in school exactly and honestly
they also noted that he possessed quote a fair amount of information a good vocabulary and an ability to reason
abstractly so um cuz he read a lot mm this suggested that despite the um the wesler adult intelligence test despite
what it indicated he was likely more intelligent than he appeared um also the results of the the RAR Shack I can never
say that right RAR Shack assessment which is the ink blot test oh okay um they were a quote not that of a well
person but of one with insufficient ego immaturity conflict concerning identification and possibly the presence
of illogical thought processes correct I believe that yeah additional tests revealed things many had suspected but
couldn't confirm Ed possessed bizarre and Powerful religious beliefs he strongly identified with feminine
figures and he had a strikingly immature level of sexuality characterized by strong feelings of guilt okay so a lot
of conflicting feelings happening here and things he wasn't able to understand or actually like put a finger on you
know cuz he was so jumbled up as a kid right with so many different messages when considered together the results
painted a picture of a man who was of average intelligence very suggestible but emotionally dull and prone to
irrational inappropriate and aggressive responses which which is not great no that's kind of the worst the earlier
tests were useful in establishing a baseline but the more in-depth testing proved more useful at identifying Ed's
true motives for his very shocking behaviors during an assessment of his social and sexual histories EDS rigid
beliefs about morality and more specifically the immorality of sex were a frequent topic with him at one point
exclaiming morality is pretty low in plan field which is what his mother would always always say yeah with regard
to his victims Ed explained Mary Hogan quote was a Dirty Talker operated a Tavern and people said she was in some
crooked business so even just the fact that she operated a Tavern that he literally went to before he even
developed like any kind of hating feelings about her you like but it's okay that you're at the tavern exactly
because she's a woman she can own a be and also she can't she can't swear his mother would have been horrified
swearing is inappropriate of course not oh my God Augusta I know Augusta would have lost her godamn mind now about
Bernice Warden uh he said quote she wooed her husband away from another girl and married him shortly after that other
girl committed suicide that's a quote so this [ __ ] is also just like gossiping he's just going on rumors
like he's just he's just following the rumor mill and being like well she should die then like you don't even know
yeah his attitudes towards women in general were very negative and his attitudes towards victims were similarly
negative and reflected the belief that their deaths were a just punishment for their sins like he's playing God yeah he
said they were they were sins like they were sinful so they should die I took care of I did it I did the correct thing
like that's why he just doesn't see it as like I don't get it what's the problem broadly speaking Ed seemed more
or less incapable of taking any responsibility for his actions like personal responsibility and frequently
blamed his behavior on everyone else he said quote if his neighbors had shown some interest in him and would have
visited then he probably wouldn't have been so lonely and engaged in illegal acts I don't really think like all this
happened cuz nobody stopped by to ask you for some sugar I feel like this was going to happen like I don't think it
helped that you were so isolated and I think that probably made you way [ __ ] weirder than you ever would have been
exactly but I I don't think we should blame everybody else I don't think it's the neighbors fault here I think so they
were by all accounts everybody he came into town everybody was kind to him and nice to him and went about their
business yeah and I'm sure it kind of sounds like Augusta turned people away oh 100 nobody was allowed at that farm
for their whole life I'm like blame your mom right she turned everybody away you
would have had friends probably exactly and also he frequently fixated on small slights and misunderstandings that had
occurred throughout his lifetime like they were far more significant Reflections about how other people felt
about him okay he would like very much focus on the minutia in like simplistic terms everyone treated him poorly
everyone took advantage of him which is what led him to do what he did not him huh had nothing to do with
him okay when it came to the murders Ed was far vager about it he frequently claimed not to remember a lot of the
details of the murders but in the case of warden's death he was confident it was an accident that had occurred when
the gun discharged accidentally though he doesn't explain how or why he physically loaded the gun
with bullets he brought into the store in the first place got it and they were like can you explain that no I just
travel with bullets in my FR pocket just an accident that you loaded the gun the
exact gun that you had the exact bullets for in your pocket no sir these are the
things that you're like [ __ ] off Ed like I can I see you yeah and you're lying
because you know and you're lying trying to make it sound like this was accidental because you know that it's
wrongly ex and you know you're going to be punished there is no Rhyme or Reason to this man it's it's increasingly
frustrating is I can't imagine being part of this investigation and like the people in the hospital and everything
having to deal with this also he claimed not to remember loading Bernice's body onto the truck or returning to the farm
but he didn't deny having killed her or mutilated her body so he admitted that in their conclusions the doctors at
Central State determined that edge social and physical isolation along with the powerful influence of his mother led
him to develop a strong and rigid set of beliefs about himself and those around him that were rooted in religious
understandings of right and wrong um following his mother's death he engaged in a very intense fantasy life in order
to cope with the profound grief anxiety and stress that was by all counts consuming him which eventually required
more elaborate acts to achieve the desired effect hence the grave robbing he denied ever Eng engaging in sex with
the bodies not necrophilia he said he did not do that um and he said at no time did I even attempt or consider
eating any flesh okay as far as his tendency to forget details of the more uh emotionally charged situations Dr
Schubert suggested it was kind of a quote self-serving Amnesia yeah engaged to help him cope with the more un
unacceptable acts such as murder kind of like what you said about I think he just
kind of like FS Amnesia because it's like a self-preservation technique that like his brain is just kind of doing for
him where he knows those are unacceptable so he's like I don't remember he has Housewives Amnesia there
you go as for why he murdered Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden Schubert stated that
Ed's motivation for the actions quote is Elusive and uncertain but several factors come to mind hostility sex and a
desire for a substitute for his mother in the form of a replica or body that could be kept indef itely but in support
of this Theory Schubert pointed to Ed's frequent comments about the bodies being
like dolls that's how he would refer to them and how he was often comforted by their
presence so when we talk about this man went to sleep with like skeletons attached to his bed he was comforted by
all of that like this is what gave him his like is Sinister yeah that Sinister is a perfect way to describe it yeah
basically Edge mental state and frequent delusions were the result of a complex combination of social environmental and
psychological factors that while useful in understanding him a little bit like at least trying to understand him it
would never adequately or to any satisfaction explain why he did what he did not at all uh he was frequently
paranoid delusional he experienced hallucinations to which he responded with bizarre behavior and violence
sometimes even when he didn't remember doing so so there was a lot going on here that nobody could understand um
based on all the test results and examinations the medical and psychiatric staff at Central State Hospital
unanimously agreed that edge met easily met the legal definition of insanity and
was not competent to stand trial at that time yeah I mean I can see why they felt
that way in his summary review sent to the judge along with the test results Dr Schubert wrote Mr G has been suffering
from a schizophrenic process of an undet number of years uh for an undetermined number of years as a result although Mr
G might no voice knowledge of the difference between right and wrong his ability to make such judgment would be
influenced by the existent mental illness he would not be capable of fully realizing the consequence of any act
because he would not be a free agent to determine either the nature or the consequence of Acts which resulted from
Disturbed and abnormal thinking because of these findings I must recommend his commitment to Central State Hospital
okay now in January 1958 a hearing was held to formally determine whether G was fit to stand trial and during his
testimony Dr Schubert's explained Dr Schubert explained that Ed was a schizophrenic who had insufficient ego
was immature lived a rather expansive Fantasy Life centered about himself and had little faith in people uh yeah
sounds right on the money Schubert believed gan's illness had been chronic and he had been experiencing symptoms
for at least the last 12 years and because he was unable to give a chronological account of his life and
the events related to his crimes he was not able to participate in his defense making him incompetent to stand
trial so to the people of Plainfield the determination seemed Preposterous I can also understand that
they were outraged that Ed appeared to be getting off with a light sentence from what they saw like especially with
a lack of understanding of mental health and everything that goes along with it especially during that time I would also
be upset like you have to consider the fact that these people are not necessarily well educated and don't have
all the resources about these kinds of things and like you said some of the things that they were talking about like
the diagnoses these people had never heard of like the americ the American people I'm not saying cuz they're like
in a small town they don't know no literally like America that's what I'm saying yeah like so it's like you can
understand why they'd be like I feel like this is a [ __ ] pop out yeah ex they were pissed and they were they I
mean this was ghoulish this was horrible this was a nightmare and this and these
were people that cuz again a small community people they loved and respected and exact knew was like an
institution right like Bernice Warden and Mar and Mary Hogan as well like that everyone to that but Bernice Warden it
was like that was an institution that hardware store right like she was just she was named citizen of the week you
know like she was everybody knew her yeah and people were even more outraged because
they were like we've known him our entire lives for the most part like everyone in that town had known him
forever and they're like I never saw anything and well they were like yeah he's odd and they said like sometimes
and they refer to him as like simple quote unquote yeah which is not they said he hardly seemed to be what they
termed psychotic well because now all of a sudden he's having these violent hallucinations we let him babysit our
children he wasn't having these violent outbursts do you think some of them were
potentially like put on I wonder or do you think it was all the stress that he was under CU that could start it too I
can see both of those being the case for sure I could easily see him play acting
this whole thing and kind of manipulating everybody or I can see that it's just he snapped when you're put
under stress like and it all started coming out but you do I mean as a citizen of that town and seeing him your
whole life and letting him your kid and he was fine MH I'd be like I don't [ __ ] think so so I can understand why
they're like this sucks but of course on the flip side of that in 1958 few people outside of the
medical and psychiatric Community even knew what schizophrenia was much less how it could manifest right so matter no
matter how well it was explained to them they most likely would never believe Ed
had a very serious and extremely complicated mental on this it was just too much to to tell everybody what it
was you know like that nobody's going to get it right cuz it's the first time they've ever even heard it it's too
complex and there's not like a ton of research or yeah they can't just call a Town Hall and be like let me explain
schizophrenia to you and like how it manifests why this is so complex why these behaviors might make sense like
we're still about this yeah but regardless of how the town's people felt judge Bundy accepted the recommendation
of Schubert and the other doctors at Central State Hospital and Ed was sent back to the hospital where he could stay
for the next 10 years now although it may have appeared as though Ed G was quote unquote evading
Justice by being confined to the state hospital State Attorney General Stuart HCK assured wisconsinites quote upon his
recovery if that should occur the defendant may still be brought to trial they like he's not just going to be let
out if he is found to have recovered and is found to be sane he will go on trial
okay so while that was probably little Comfort to the friends and families of the victims at the time or the residents
of plan fields that day did eventually come in February of 1968 when Ed was found to be competent to stand trial for
the murders of Bernice Warden and Mary Hogan in recent years Ed had become a model patient at the hospital and had
shown considerable Improvement since his arrival even to the point of holding a job at the hospital's lapidary lapidary
what is that and it's relating to Stone and gems and the work involving engraving cutting or polishing them so
like he was making rings and [ __ ] so he was like I think it was more like Engravings and stone and stuff I don't
want that I mean who does really but but he was doing it he was holding a job there huh um and a hospital SP Sparks
person Sparks person a hospital spokesperson said quote he seems content to live day by day we've never had the
least bit of trouble with him kind of not dope that he gets to be content living day by day kind of not
dope kind of not dope that's a great way to describe kind of [ __ ] shitty I think that's a good blanket statement
for what happened here which kind of not dope like you just get to be content after you killed two question mark
question mark people so you know what super not and I'm saying like question mark question mark two like yeah like
more yeah at least two and possibly your brother yeah now despite being content though sorry yeah it's fine you're
content to live day by day despite being found competent to stand trial Schubert
was emphatic that Ed was still profoundly mentally ill correct and was unlikely to improve any more than he had
in the time since he arrived he said quote I doubt if Mr G will ever change and truly with the hor horrific
Discovery now a decade behind everyone most people around planfield would just as soon have left it in the past like
they didn't want to relive this all over again but Ed had spent 10 years locked in a psychiatric facility without ever
having trial for the crimes that put him in there and as far as he was concerned
as Ed was concerned he wanted his day in court huh he thought he was going to talk himself out of this one yeah I was
like do you really want your day in court the day finally came on November 7th 1968 and despite a courtroom
courtroom pact with press and Spectators it was very underwhelming the event uh because Ed opted for a bench trial the
prosecutor spent just one day presenting his case to the judge which was by then
very familiar to every in the courtroom and the defense spent just a few a few days more to present their
case of Not Guilty by reason of insanity it was as though everyone was simply just like kind of going through the
motions to kind of satisfy gan's right to a fair trial like we just going to go through this on November 14th 1968 Ed
was found guilty of murder after which the second phase of the trial to determine his sanity at the time of the
murder began this too was over in a very short amount of time with the judge returning his conclusion that he was
insane after 2 days of testimony from Psychiatric uh psychiatrists at Central State Hospital based on the findings
Edan was returned to Central State Hospital where he would remain institutionalized until he was deemed
sane and no longer posed a threat to society although this technically meant like I said it was possible that Ed
could be released back into the community and he did in fact petition for this in 1974 the [ __ ] he did that
man petitioned to be let back out kind of not dope yeah definitely not dope um given the extent of his crimes and their
effect on the community there was no real chance of him ever being released from the hospital I'm like who the [ __ ]
signed that petition so Gan returned to Central State Hospital where he remained
until the facility was converted into a correctional facility in 1978 from there
he was transferred to Motta state hospital where he spent the days working watching TV reading books and
magazines just chilling just as he had for the previous two decades Ed remained a model patient never caused any
problems for the staff was never violent never did anything really wrong in the prison or excuse me in the hospital and
Ed G died of respiratory failure on July 26 1984 at the age of 77 I did not realize for some reason that he lived to
the'80s yeah to the ' 80s and he was 77 and he was buried in an unmarked plot in
the planfield cemetery wow now I mean I guess when you think about it like I was just so
annoyed that he got to like read books and watch TV you can also do those things in prison that's true I just
thought that to myself I was like really what's the difference it's true exactly
he's just getting treated at the same time and yeah I don't know but in March 1958 the G Farm became the property of
the county that was in 58 by the way we're going back for a minute okay okay so I just said that like we were still
in 1958 no it's okay um but in 1958 like in case you were wondering what happened
to the Farm yeah it was um it became the property of the county and the local Auction Company the farm sales service
of Reedsburg um they were contracted to auction the property in the landoff can you imagine having that place be your
responsibility no thank you like [ __ ] but prior to the auction the farm sales service of Reedsburg tried to cash in on
the notoriety of the Case Case uh by charging 50 cents to anyone who wanted to do a tour of the property in
buildings before they were sold off had been like cleaned up yet yeah uh I mean as much as it could I suppose huh I'm
not really sure what kind of uh crime scene cleanup they had back then but probably wasn't that
advanced but already exhausted and frustrated by the overwhelming attention the case was drawing the residents of
planfield vehemently objected to the admission fee and a judge quickly shut down the company's attempt to quote make
the house amus museum for The Morbid and I was like hey hey we for that we not ask for that we did not want to do that
wow a few weeks later the auction of the property and remaining contents of the house remaining contents of the house
the [ __ ] did that house contain whatever was left it was held and Drew more than
20,000 Spectators what which I can see the like morbid curiosity of wanting to see like
who buys this thing like I can understand like just being like what's going to happen here I can at least
understand the morbid curiosity of that like wanting to see who this goes to I I
see like both sides of it for me I wouldn't want to touch that with a 10 foot oh I feel like it's got such bad
energy that's the thing I'm such an energy human mhm um there was an arson fire that occurred on the property uh a
week before the auction you're trying to burn that energy into the air yeah it's
apparently uh it destroyed much of the main house actually and by the time the auction was held on March 23rd 1958 all
that remained was five old sheds in the foundation of the main house wow in the end the property and the remaining
contents of the farm were all sold for less than $4,000 which went to offsetting the
significant costs of the investigation and hearings uh in the decades that followed hunters and those exploring the
property surrounding the what was once the G farm would occasionally find human bones buried on and around the property
which is a really Sinister reminder of the Hideous things that had happened on that property abolutely for literally
decades Hunters would find human bones which I don't I feel like there's more he killed just two people I feel like
there's more man although his crimes were truly bizarre and shocking it's possible the story of Ed would have kind
of faded out into history with the passage of time and this a long time ago maybe but there was a a little known
strange fiction writer named Robert block that at the time of the murders he had been living in the Midwest and
started following the Gan case as it unfolded in the papers the story eventually became the basis for Block's
1959 novel psycho huh the year after its release Alfred Hitchcock you might have
heard of him I think maybe he adapted psycho for the big screen and created one of the most iconic and enduring
characters in horror Cinema Norman Bates I still need to see it despite being an
amalgamation of a few different characters Gan would become synonymous with the character of Norman Bates in
the years that followed um and his I mean ghoulish ghoulish acts would live on in horror Cinema most notably in
1974's Texas Chainsaw Massacre 1991's Silence of the Lambs and 2001's House of a Thousand Corpses oh I didn't realize
that was also yeah now Ed especially the name alone yeah you could you could call
the Gan Farmhouse of a Thousand Corpses seriously Ed Kean was not the first American murder murderer to capture the
Public's imagination but his crimes were so bizarre and so ghoulish and so beyond
anything we'd ever seen before that they definitely left a massive mark on the American psyche and inspired an interest
in crime and criminal behavior that really is what we have today like this is because think about it the psych the
the psychology aspect of this case is was so huge yeah absolutely that really took off um I think that much like the
murder of the Clutter family in 1959 the discoveries at the G Farm kind of represent this like shattering of a
collective innocence it's like a pivotal shift it really is it's just like oh [ __ ] like these people live among us
this is what can happen here and it was in you know the these were such brutal and crimes and they happen in what was
America's Heartland and they were committed by a mild mannered handyman in sometimes babysitter I wish you would
stop and if they can happen in the American Heartland they can happen anywhere and no one is ever going to be
safe again is that where you're ending is and that's where you crazy girl no but it
really was like this was the moment when everybody said this no one's safe yeah absolutely where where can we go in this
country that like if it can happen here it can happen anywhere you got to lock your doors you got to you know be
watching over your shoulder so scary this case gives me nightmares Edan I think the case is is so well known and
it's been covered so many times but it's like when you really hear all the all the nitty-gritty you learned something
new learn lot more to it I learned a lot and I've heard coverage of this before obviously like I I think I said in the
beginning not a ton like I've listened to a couple podcasts but even still I learned a lot with your coverage thanks
Dave you know I don't know if I'm better for it Dave Dave was a real one with this one I know Dave it was a it was a
journey like sorry a poor man a poor man what we put him through I know he's voluntarily you
know he's here okay he loves us he's here and we love him and he loves us F da listening right now being like not
this much he's like I don't love you guys at all shut up both of you oh my God yeah so that's the Ed gin
case well I'll be coming at you next with something pretty morbid there we go that's the the name of the show that's
the name of the game the name of the game and uh since no one's safe again we hope they keep listening we hope you
keep it weird I need like an ice cream or something get an ice cream I need like I
don't know I need a [Music] cocktail

What drove the mild-mannered farmer to commit such hideous and depraved acts in America’s heartland, and why do people from around the world continue to find him so infamous?

Thank you to the magical Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!

References

Associated Press. 1968. "Gein prosecution winds up murder testimony." Capital Times, November 9: 9.

—. 1968. "Gein ruled fit to stand trial." Green Bay Press-Gazette, January 16: 1.

Capital Times. 1958. "Bar Gein house admission fees." Capital Times, March 12: 4.

—. 1957. "Claims ten skulls came from graves ." Capital Times, November 18: 1.

—. 1958. "Gein insane, psychiatrist tells court." Capital Times, January 6: 3.

—. 1957. "Nearly wed gein, woman reveals." Capital Times, November 20: 1.

—. 1957. "Plan to open at least two." Capital Times, November 23: 1.

—. 1957. "Weeping Gein joins minister in prayer." Capital Times, November 22: 1.

—. 1957. "'Won't believe' graves robbed ." Capital Times, November 19: 1.

Daily Tribune. 1954. "Believe Bancroft tavernkeeper was slain." Daily Tribune, December 9: 1.

—. 1944. "Rites today for the man who died in Roche-a-Cri fire." Daily Tribune, May 19: 1.

Engel, Dave. 2005. "Whatever happened to Mary Hogan?" Daily Tribune, December 5: 6.

La Crosse Tribune. 1957. "State pushes murder charges against ." La Crosse Tribune, November 22: 1.

Portage Daily Register. 1957. "New rifle in shop used in slaying storekeeper." Portage Daily Register, November 19: 1.

Schechter, Harold. 1998. Deviant: The Shocking True Story of Ed Gein, the Original Psycho. New York, NY: Gallery Books.

Stevens Point Journal. 1958. "Ed Gein's real estate sold for under $4,000." Stevens Point Journal, March 31: 1.

—. 1958. "Gein farmhouse leveled by early morning blaze." Stevens Point Journal, March 20: 1.

—. 1958. "Open house at Gein farm draws crowds." Stevens Point Journal, March 24: 1.

—. 1957. "Results of lie test announced." Stevens Point Journal, November 20: 1.

—. 1954. "Woman's disappearance hints slaying at Pine Grove tavern." Stevens Point Journal, December 9: 1.

United Press. 1957. "Hospital gets ready for Gein." Capital Times, November 23: 2.

United Press International. 1968. "Ed Gein found guilty of 1957 murder in Plainfield." Capital Times, November 14: 2.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

Elina and Ash discuss Ed Gein's gruesome crimes, his psychological background, and the cultural impact of his case.

Key points

The Butcher Sequel Announcement. Elina shares exciting news about her upcoming book sequel, The Butcher Game, releasing September 17th.
The Skin Suit Revelation. A shocking revelation about Ed's creation of a skin suit from women's bodies.
The Dark Need. Ed's murder of Mary Hogan satisfied a dark urge he felt for years. 'Wow.'
Public Fascination. The American public's fascination with Ed grew, leading to guards being appointed to secure the crime scene.
No Remorse. Ed showed no remorse for his actions, only sorrow for being caught. 'What?'
Psychiatric Evaluation. The district attorney recommended Ed be evaluated by psychiatrists before trial. 'Wow.'

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Imagine being the person that had to interview him.

Discussion about the chilling nature of interviewing Ed.

9:47WatchApr 15, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from Morbid | Podcast

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.