Delphi Murders /// Part 2 /// 111 | Forensic Files

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[Applause] crime and Marie the autopsy's confirmed identities but how these children were
killed the circumstances surrounding their death police aren't talking about that they say they don't want to say
anything that could jeopardize this double homicide investigation for the second day local
state and federal investigators scoured over the crime scene early afternoon divers joined the search for clues that
could lead detectives to the girl's killer the autopsies confirmed what everyone including the teens families
suspected and feared I think they were in pretty much belief that it was their their
children um but when you hear from an official it's it's it's still a little just still it hits home twice one of the
hundreds of volunteer Searchers found the bodies of Libby German and Abby Williams in a wooded area near Deer
Creek it is an area accessible only by foot or on horse well off the popular Trails the 13-year-olds were hiking
dozens of police are now checking hundreds of leads we are using resources from uh all the way from L Fort Wayne and uh
the Southern State or the southern part of the state's uh police state troopers we will stay on the job until it is done
police say they have no suspects or Persons of Interest they're asking anyone who was in the hiking area who
saw something or heard something or took any pictures contact them should people
in this community be concerned about someone running around targeting kids my response is is no I feel safe for this
Community Libyan Abbey teens teachers describe as happy and go-lucky attended deli's middle school crisis teams were
ready for students and teachers when they arrived at all the district schools they're just asking those questions
right now of oh my gosh it hit me and somebody's there for them the double homicide has prompted one of the largest
investigations some officers say they've ever been part of as far as I'm concerned yes there is somebody out
there that did this horrendous crime and uh we're going to track him down also police say there is someone
out there who probably saw something was on the trails was driving that part of the country just east of Deli they may
have seen someone they may have seen a car that perhaps looked out of place and that's why police want that person to
call them back to you [Music] the homicides of two Deli teenagers Liberty German and Abigail Williams has
shocked the community of Carroll County and left them on edge as police search for Killers or the killer of both we
went through a general timeline of the investigation yesterday but today what we're going to focus on is rumors
speculation and theories revolving this investigation because we have this situation here Captain where we're not
being told a whole lot of information and in my opinion what's going on right now is we have a man hunt we're in the
middle of a man hunt this is Public Enemy Number One in my opinion this is who everybody should be looking for this
is a very very bad person that we are looking for well and to be very clear so everything that we're going to be
talking about is it's all speculative and so take it all with a grain of salt but it's something that you have to look
at with this case being you know open there's really no suspects uh in custody there's nobody charged with this crime
so everything that we're going to be talking about from here on out is uh speculation so if that's not your thing
and you know and a lot of the information that we will provide today is coming from several different sources
it's it's from rumors around the investigation possible leaks from law enforcement or leaks from reporters
sometimes reporters see some things that they're asked not to speak about as well
as Searchers uh volunteer Searchers that were involved in this case mhm we also have some information from some bloggers
YouTubers and just kind of collecting everything that's out there to kind of get a a sense of what is actually going
on in this investigation now regarding the investigation itself of course autopsies were conducted but a cause of
death has not been stated in the case of either girl M now I want to talk about our suspect for a minute and you know if
you hear me say Bridge guy obviously I'm referring to the man in the in the photograph released by police of the guy
on the bridge so yesterday I failed to mention the possibility of a gun involved in this case when you look at
the two pictures of the bridge guy in one of the pictures there appears to be a gun on his person you can see an
outline of a gun um you know I've heard other people speculate that the suspect definitely has a pistol what I see what
I see is the outline of a gun it it appears to be a pistol that is holstered on his right
side uh the gun pointing backward on his right side which would mean which would
imply he's possibly left-handed uh the outline of the pistol in my opinion can be clearly seen in one
of the photos that was released of the bridg man if the gun is on his right side why why does that mean he's
left-handed well because the the handle would be facing his left meaning that he
would draw it kind of like a sword you know you you typically would draw a sword from your opposite side well you
know living in Columbus Ohio I don't have to draw a sword too often uh so that brings us to our first question how
were the girls killed M and it's thought that they were either strangled uh or that possibly the throats may have been
cut according to rumors coming from persons who attended the memorial services for the girls right they both
had scarfs around their neck so this would point to both of those causes of death being likely as for the state of
the bodies when found well I guess someone posted pictures uh on a website and this the photos were quickly taken
down but a number of people saw these photos before they were taken down some of these people being people from Deli
yeah I haven't actually seen these photos myself I have not either uh but I've I've heard secondhand reports of
what was seen in these photos now from what I've heard the photo showed the two dead girls and the coroner uh the person
who posted the photo had some text saying that the bodies were positioned in an odd way this has led to the rumor
or theory that the that the way that the girls were left is some kind of ritual or maybe even something satanic right
satanic Panic yeah this this is a possibility uh you know just but but also just the killer posing the bodies
serial killers like doing this they often pose the victim knowing that they will be found they will pose them in a
manner for Max maximum shock value or to further degrade the victim even after death well the girls were found by
firefighters correct firefighters and volunteer Searchers right and so the rumor was that when the firefighters
found them the the at least one of the girls throats were slit so badly that it was almost uh decapitation mhm and
unfortunately it probably would lean towards the throat slitting uh because of the scarfs um I I don't know know the
specifics of it and I'm not going to pretend to but I would think if it was strangulation that there could be makeup
or something less obvious uh on on the bodies at the at the services the thing here is though we also have a a rumor
that has persisted for quite some time uh this was even before the case uh was released to the media uh these early
rumors coming from family members that Abby survived until the next day this would be February
14th there were different rumors um some of those including that she was found alive but died on the way to the
hospital or that the coroner said that she had survived the attack but died of hypothermia in the woods and that her
body might have still been warm when found now there's information out there that she may have survived the attack
and tried to crawl aways away and then passed away uh if this is true of course you know we don't know how long she
would have survived for after the attack but to me it might lean more towards strangulation you know because we have
seen several cases that we've covered on this show where somebody will attempt to
choke someone and they they think that they've completed um the murder and and in fact have not well again because the
lack of evidence or not the lack of evidence but the lack of uh evidence that they're releasing to the public
it's really hard to understand what motive is cuz we don't we don't know if these um two girls were sexually
assaulted or not yeah and I think that it would be easily assumed that this might be a sexually motivated crime or
sexually motivated murders um you know but we can't always assume that in these cases the the very first rumors from the
family members said that both girls had been raped uh the the other rumor was that only one was attacked this way
there is a new rumor that says that neither girl was raped and what we are seeing with this rumor instead is that
both girls would have been could have been sexually mutilated in some way which of course this is
definitely got to be much worse than than the actual sexual attack itself right but that would lead to the satanic
Panic possi possibly or just an extremely violent offender um I don't know which of these is a more accurate
statement I do however believe that we are dealing with a very bad man and an evil person who easily could have been
motivated by any and maybe all of the above now yeah I can't back this with like some source so again bunch of
speculation but um a friend of mine that has dove into this case uh quite a bit uh was telling me that in this
area yeah it's a small town and 3,000 individuals or so but one in 60 individuals are sexual offenders in this
area a a registered sexual offender right um I you know I don't know I don't know if if they were raped or or one or
the other um you know but you would hope if that were the case that we would have
some form of DNA that could connect to this guy um if if they were just AB assaulted with an object then we might
not be dealing with DNA uh if not then what would be the other possible motives well then you would
think that somebody was specifically targeting one or both of these girls for some kind of uh horrible purpose mhm now
there there's a rumor out there that's that's catching legs and the thing here is I I almost hesitate to say this
because it seems a little far-fetched to me but I but because that's what we're doing here today I think we should
report on it there there's a rumor that possi Abby uh was pregnant uh that victim Abigail Williams age 13 was
pregnant at the time of the attack now I've seen we've all seen the pictures of her on the bridge she doesn't appear to
be pregnant she could be in the very early stages however um I do want to point out that the way that this rumor
goes is that somebody related to the boyfriend wanted to put an end to this pregnancy and possibly wanted to talk
her into to an abortion or maybe even and I cringe when I say this even perform some kind of back alley surgery
himself now this obviously if we're looking at a suspect that is the man on the bridge then this would be somebody
much older than aby's boyfriend and you know his name has been reported he's I guess he's a 16-year-old boy um but so
this would the thought would be it would be a a father or an uncle or a grandfather somebody related to this boy
the problem right and we're calling him boy because we're not going to release this individual's names cuz again it's
just rumors no be and more more than likely in my opinion he's probably a victim because he lost his girlfriend he
lost friends close to him so it's it's not necessary to State his name the thing here is though Captain you would
think that if this theory if it if it really if it was it was a hard concrete Theory that that that had some ground
you would think that that your suspect pool shrinks immediately you know we would be looking at a small group of
people and we have the picture of the guy we have the audio now mind you the picture is not clear the audio is not
super clear however I think if you're only looking at three or four people you could pick one amongst those that best
look like this guy right uh I agree with you and and also yeah those aren't clear
but but we also don't know what else they have I mean do they have 6 minutes of video do they have 40 minutes of
audio uh basically based off the interview from the sheriff is you don't want to hear this audio that they have
which you know leads me to believe that this is an audio recording of the actual
murders yeah that that some or all of the attack took place on the video or audio the thing here is too Captain but
you would think if it was somebody that knew either of the girls or both of the girls mhm if they didn't know they were
being recorded they would probably they might even refer to them by name which would be somewhat of a lead I would
think uh you know how how would a stranger just know their names unless he makes them tell them or yeah which you
might not actually have that part on audio you know there there might not be footage of the guy asking their names
and I don't know the Dynamics of this young man's family of the boyfriend's family but I know with my circle of
friends I've I have had friends that I've been around for 15 20 years I might know their parents but I don't know
their grandparents or their uncles uh what I'm getting at here is the reverse of if the suspect knew the victim's
names if it was somebody somewhat close to their Circle there's a chance the victims could have known his name and
obviously if if they heard a first name on there that again suspect pool much smaller we still have nobody arrested so
I don't think that's for me why this Theory doesn't hold a lot of weight and what's your take on this idea that the
girls were actually moved like that they were um so basically the rumor is that the search team searched that area M and
there's a lot of claims that well we searched that area on the Monday and they weren't there so that they were
either somewhere else the crime scene maybe took place somewhere else and they were just dumped in that that spot or
that the crime scene actually took place in that spot and was moved and then they
were taken back well the thing here is like you said there's been these rumors stemming from the search party and me a
lot of these people are adamant that they searched that very area on the 13th and then they're found there on the 14th
right when you and I were talking about this you brought up a very good point this is February the search wouldn't
have started until 5:30 or so right and it's very possibly that it could be dark
by the time they started that search now I don't want to say that they didn't try
their hardest or their darnest um I believe that they did if they say they searched that area and they think that
it was super thorough I'm going to go with that I could also be talked into believing that they might that they
might have missed it because it was dark I could be talked into it uh it was dark yeah I look I think people
sometimes are mistaken we see that time and time again with with eyewitnesses you know uh I I don't believe and look
again they're holding back so much evidence I don't know if there's any evidence that they were moved well the
thing here is and I'll point to a bit of a theory that I have um I think lay it on me Colonel I think
that this is possibly a sexually motivated crime sexually motivated murders so if that's the case I believe
that this Maniac whatever he was trying to achieve whatever whatever he wanted to do he would need a
little bit of privacy and he would want a little bit of time and that they would
have been taken to a nearby structure I don't I don't really see a situation where somebody you know put them in a
vehicle and drove them far away just to return them later that seems too unlikely it seems too too much of for
this guy to get caught um so I think that if he would have taken them to a nearby structure that that would have
provided him with both a little bit of privacy and a little bit of time now it did look like at some point in this
investigation that law enforcement was working with that idea um they they might have been removed and then later
returned and dumped at this site so this would mean that they would have had to have been returned after 2:30 a.m. when
all the Searchers left and most likely before daylight the next day sun up would have been around 700 a.m. right so
the killer returned the girls according to my theory to the forest where near where they were abducted somehow If he
if he had somewhere close to take them this might not have been very difficult for him to do well and there were some
roads that were leading that way cuz I guess there's some roads through the semetery that's close that you could
take that would help you get back to the area where the bodies were found now one
place that police were searching now this is a structure it's a it's I'll call it a barn cuz that's what it looks
like to me but it's been referred to to in newspaper articles as a structure this is a barn with with three True
Crime structure three big openings and I believe that it's located across the street from Ron Logan's property
remember we discussed Ron Logan yesterday his property kind of meets up with the area that the girls were hiking
right now the distance from this Barn uh to the beginning of the trail where where they would have been uh replaced
uh is approximately about 200 yards that's what it's been reported at okay so two football fields yes this could be
where he took where he took them MH uh to This Barn that now what I've heard about this Barn is that a person there
would have had a perfect view of the area uh he would be able to determine when the searches had stopped so he
possibly knew when the searches stopped at 2:30 a.m. he then returned them sometime between 2:30 and 7:00 a.m. that
morning there is photos of police with dogs searching This Barn the barn that I just described this was reported but the
media reports got it wrong this is where they stated that they were searching Ron
Logan's property again searching his land and in fact it was land across the street this belonging to the MIRS family
uh which is like I said just across the street but the thing here is regarding the structure uh it's about 50 I think
it's 50 yard off of the road so the way that it's been reported to me is that if
you were standing at the road you would not be able to see very far into this Barn you would only be able to see a
couple feet into it now mind you on top of that between 5:30 p.m. and 2:30 a.m. it's going to be very dark I've heard
that it's so dark inside this Barn that you could have placed a vehicle in there
during daylight hours and the vehicle itself not be able to be seen well and so the the the theory that they were
moved kind of lends themselves a lot of people then say well if they were moved because these Searchers claim that they
searched this area and they weren't there which again I think it could just be a simple
mistake that therefore there's multiple Killers because this is a 13 and 14-year-old uh teenage girl and they
would to be able to physically move them which I would argue you know this is a rural area that maybe there's a ATV or
something like that or you could put somebody in a truck or something like that but uh I'm going to go back with the so
let's just address this killer or Killers the reason why I lean towards a single person is one we got a picture of
a single person right and they claim that that's a suspect this is a guy that we need to talk to also the interview
with the sheriff uh when he's answering he he keeps answering as killer and then almost de dismisses the
multi you know multiple person Theory MH um you'd have to listen to it to get the
vibe but that's the vibe I got and so I think if if the sheriff is saying hey an
again it's it's the six minutes of video or 40 minutes of audio that he knows that I don't know mhm and so to me with
all his knowledge and with that they're holding to the vest he's pointing towards one individual and I think i' I
you know I've seen footage of of different interviews with him and I think at least twice I've seen him uh
try and like almost catch himself and then say or Killers you know there's a long Paws and then he goes or Killers
right and I think a lot of that has to come down to they need people to come forward they need they still need tips
you know we're sitting here talking about this case and we're talking about speculation they're still wait 10,000
tips they're still waiting on the tip that's going to close this case and bring this madman to Justice well
there's a couple things one it's it's like a back and forth thing first of all with law enforcement
I I I applaud you that you want to hold it everything close to the chest so that
you can get a conviction of this animal damn it got stop calling them animals monster right yep of this monster sick
individual this guy's a piece of [ __ ] M right that's that's what we do know this
is a 13 and 14-year-old girl you are a piece of [ __ ] man and but law enforcement I understand you want to
keep it keep it close to the chest so that maybe you can get a conviction but I think what law enforcement needs to
understand that the armchair detective Community web sluth Community if this guy is a traveler you have strength and
numbers and there is a lot of smart I mean just doing the show for what 110 episodes the amount of individuals that
we have met that know so much about this stuff well and to further touch upon the
point whether they were moved or not there there's an additional rumor and this is uh might be stemming from The
Searchers as well the rumor is that the Searchers followed drag marks presumably
left by the girls to the site um now this would mean that if if the person used the barn and they they did drag the
girls off that trail to leave them um we're looking at a situation where the killer drove down the road this would be
the road from the barn to the cemetery and then drove past the cemetery then through the southeast gate this would
have put him on Ron Logan's land for a very small bit of time he would have to kind of cross over his land and then
went to the trail where he dragged the bodies now it's not inconceivable because if he did in fact have a gun if
that outlined that we we see that that appears to be a gun he might have been able to control them if he was well
planned or well equipped we talked about a fanny pack or a deer kit there's a chance he might have had zip ties or
something to gain control and could have put them in a vehicle and quickly transported them to that structure that
we just discussed W I'm getting pretty fired up let's get right back to this after a quick beer
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the other question that we have now Captain is was DNA recovered from the crime scene uh which there has been
conflicting information about the DNA collected at the crime scene some reports there there was no DNA other
reports stating there is DNA but there is no match to any known person another says that the DNA that came back is that
of Ivan Bromberg uh this is a man that was involved in the search and he is one of the people that found the bodies
however in this situation it would simply just be we touch DNA um that was found and yeah yeah possible but you
know interesting thing uh I have a friend that's kind of spiritual I don't want to get into it too much uh has
feelings um if that makes any sense nope um she just gets feelings or Vibes about
certain things and one of the things as she was researching this case and she's researched this case a lot she beli the
individual that is responsible for this crime was there was involved in the search yeah the following day and which
would make a lot of sense when you think well maybe the day of and the day the next day mhm and you know which would
make some sense you we're talking about a very small community of 3,000 that's pretty small mhm so well
feeling or not that you know that doesn't really matter the thing here is m you know usually the person that finds
a body is usually considered a suspect that's one of the first people that police want to talk to you know they're
kind of lumped into that group of people with like family members and people close to the victim they're they're put
right in that Center Circle of the investigation right from the get-go you have a different situation here because
multiple people found these bodies and in the situations I'm talking about it's would be where one person stumbles upon
de body this situation though I do want to be very clear about this because we we used we stated his name I want to be
very clear that that this Mr Bromberg um has not been listed as a suspect first of all and second of all he has stated
that when they found the bodies they there were other people there that he did touch the bodies when they were
found right uh yeah okay number one don't touch the bodies that's the rule second uh unless they're not unless it's
not obvious that you know if when you're searching it's it typically it's search
and rescue you know what I mean um you don't know that you're looking for a dead person at that point and don't
touch the bodies okay I can agree with that but what I'm stating is that I think that it's natural for some people
I'm coming to Mr bromberg's defense here is that no I'm not don't touch the bodies in some situations you you think
that there's still chance at hope there's still chance at life and you you go to search and rescue yeah don't touch
the bodies um anyways but that's what makes me believe that this there was a sexual assault because we have DNA of
this guy finding them but yeah there was other individuals around but we have DNA
of this individual on the victims according to rumors right but we're going to dismiss that anyways because
there was a sexual assult that's my gut feeling there that's your that's your opinion yes but kind of just you know to
to clear this up because the options are was there DNA there wasn't any DNA uh well one thing we can go ahead and check
off our list is that if there was DNA found at the scene it doesn't match any known person to them because uh you know
they would have arrested this person by now we would we would be aware with the way that the eyes are on this case and
the rumors coming out I think I think we would have been aware Colonel don't be so naive here right so as far as
registered sex offenders in United States right mhm I'm going to give broad numbers now
a lot of this is coming from the national center missing and exploited children but registered sex offenders
you're looking at about 750,000 okay out of those 750,000 now a big point that you brought
up and I'm not even clear on the answer is are certain sex uh are certain sex offenders do they have to register their
DNA and I think that holds true in some states and in some areas I don't know that it holds true for all areas right
but the that what I'm saying is if they do have DNA that doesn't mean that it necessarily doesn't match somebody now I
would I would favor the idea that if it did match somebody that and here's where
I'm going with this okay out of the 700 you you want to get freaked out right now you want to go run and find your
kids and lock them up because you know how many of those 750,000 which is up almost 150,000 from
10 years ago you know how many of those people are missing I do not anywhere from well they
say zero to over a 100,000 that's a lot of missing sex offenders and so but but I get but the
point is is if they did have DNA and if it did match somebody you're saying might not be a to
find the person right but even if they were missing you would you would think that they would come out and say well
here's the guy's uh photo here's his last known address here's his last known license plate you know everything we
know about the guy this is the dude right but possibly not I think I swallowed a bug the next thing on our
list here Captain is was evidence destroyed or what evidence was found at the destroyed by the uh the
attacker by the murderer yeah or or discarded in another place other than where the bodies were found well let's
talk about the obvious one the phone right there's been a big huge question about the phone well my personal
feelings or my yeah my personal feelings what is this like therapy um my thoughts
on this are pretty simple I think the individual probably took the phone with them probably threw the phone in a a
river or wherever mhm uh and the law enforcement got a break and solving this case got a break with the technology of
the cloud mhm and I think you're right because the other Theory would be that if the phone in fact was not recovered
that if the killer didn't do something with the phone then Liberty would have got rid of the phone to try to hide her
recordings uh think that you know I understand that we're searching the woods here but I think that it would
have been found had she dropped it somewhere on purpose or that's a big area or threw it somewhere on purpose I
think if it's not been recovered you're looking at a situation where the killer did something with the actual phone now
there was also a rumor that bootprints were found at the scene of course this would make sense you know the the bridge
guy that we see he appears to be wearing some type of you know of course he's wearing wearing shoes but they might be
outdoor boots or some form of boots um and law enforcement had some boots in an Evidence bag just a few days after the
killings now they said that the boots had nothing to do with the crime I personally doubt that this is true but
they say that a lot right I I what I would have to guess probably happened is that they did you know they wouldn't
have recovered I don't expect them to recover boots from the crime scene that would make little to no sense it's more
likely that law enforcement matched the bootprints that were found at the crime scene to a specific type and size of
boot and they went out and acquired that exact type and size of boot well there's
some rumors about the girl's clothes as well yeah the rumor from reporters at the scene indicate that the girl's
clothing was found in the creek this to me would make a lot of sense especially if this is a sexually motivated crime
this guy is horrible enough he's not going to bother to clothe them afterward and second of all he's probably wanting
to get rid of DNA the best that he can with we don't know how much time he had to do that but the thing is the bodies
were found according to the press conference the bodies were found near water I I almost wonder if they were
found in the water if one of them was found in the water because they would have been near the creek if you look at
a a map of where the bodies were found they put the dot basically right on what appears to be the creek itself mhm now
if they regardless if they were found in the water or out of it they were found near and therefore it would have been
very easy for the killer to then throw the clothing in the water well it also makes sense with the rumor of the
hypothermia one girl surviving the actual attack but dying from hypothermia if they were in water yeah it was it was
February but it was abnormally warm but when you you know if you were in the water and then out of the water attacked
hypothermia would probably more likely set in then I would assume well I think it's time to address the elephant in the
room here captain or the old guy in the room yeah or the old guy on his property
or the old guy in prison I think it's the more accurate statement so we have Ron Logan he's been he's been and I I
would say in the public eye it appears to me from from what I'm reading from what I'm seeing
that it's generally thought that he's should be the prime suspect in this case so I think we should look at him two
different angles we should look at why you know is he an actual suspect or is he covering for somebody or did he just
have the bad luck of the bodies being placed on his land okay let's make it simpler though why why would he be a
suspect and why he W it so let's start with why he would and I was talking to a a great armchair Detective detective
eventually this guy will write books that and you'll read them and you'll be fascinated with this this individual I
call him the coach talking to the coach he was saying the thing about Ron Logan and we just like to call him Logan thing
about Logan that makes it's the A to B answer where the where are the girls found on Logan's property right um now
and then we have a shaky Alibi mhm right he States while I went to pick up exotic
fish I went to the dump uh and he was supposedly seen day drinking at some restaurant right so his
Alibi is a little shaky but I think that some of that probably does check out uh
well what the other thing too where the public has has got him targeted is that you have people stating that he looks
like the photograph of the bridge guy that he sounds like the odd audio that they recovered from the phone now the
thing here is you and I looked at both because Ron Logan you can if you Google or do any type of search at all you can
find him very quickly he he talked to several reporters it shows him walking the property with the reporters one
thing that surprised me though this guy's like 77 years old and my first thought and I know I apologize to
everybody out there to the older community and I know that that you have both ends of the spect right I know
people in their 70s that can do 100 push-ups and I know people in their 70s that aren't getting around very good
these days but and as far as Ron Logan appears in the interviews with these reporters he's walking up and down steep
hills with them he seems to have no problem he seems to be in good physical condition for his age so my immediate
thought was a 77y old man no not likely but then when you see him easily maneuvering these these Hills and and
such then you think well okay and then it's been pointed out well in some of these interviews he's wearing a similar
getup to the guy to the bridge guy yeah but everybody in that area has similar getups but the other thing that's
interesting that the coach pointed out which I never even thought of before is that the picture of the guy on the
bridge has a demeanor as you know like hunched over rolled shoulders mhm possibly you know you got to look at the
ground anyways because and now some people would say well that's a a sign of maybe he was
intoxicated that this individual was intoxicated you have to look down at that bridge because if you don't you're
going to fall off the did you see rails on that bridge no you're looking down as
you're walking on that bridge nobody wants to be the one guy that every so many years trips off the edge of the
bridge right and the thing too is your foot could go within some of the planks and stuff like that so but the coach
said he the guy in the picture kind of looks maybe intoxicated I didn't really noticed it before um but but looking at
it now I can see that so that would be another uh Point against Logan uh the other thing too yeah but
not to get too far away from the outfit because I think you just quickly dismissed it when you say everybody out
there has that same kind of outfit what you mean by that is you and I watched other interviews with other residents
and they seem to have they all have the same outf they hoodie with it's not like
a crazy outfit that you wouldn't be used to seeing the guy's wearing what appears
to be blue jeans everybody wears blue jeans and he's wearing like a like a blue type coat or jacket to me the with
it doesn't appear to have any type of logo on it that I could see but to me it looked like something I would be used to
seeing like utility workers wear or maybe even possible um construction guys would wear in the colder months it's not
an uncommon jacket or coat yeah it's not like the the the suspects walking around
with a romper on and personally I didn't think that Ron Logan sounded anything like the the short now mind you we only
heard three or four words three words three words down the hill he didn't sound anything to me like that audio
that was just my ears uh cuz uh Logan has kind of a sh sh when he talks right uh uh what's that guy from uh is it
Family Guy the guy the grandpa talk like I know what you're talking about I can't do it um but yeah
he kind of has this whistle to him the other thing too Captain is that it you know if if the guy that I watched on CNN
you know this expert quote unquote expert who said that he believed that the person was somewhere between 40 and
50 years old you know I said that law enforcement it appeared that they were going with that as their kind of age
range from what they saw and mind you they've seen more than I have I I said yesterday I felt the guy was slightly
older but I don't see a 77y old man I feel like I'm looking at a 45 to 55 year old guy yeah I I can see that uh so
another Point against Logan is like I said if you look at the Snapchat picture looking down the now I said it
looks like possibly there's a vehicle and two people in front of it now look I did a little more research and I
understand that those are not people in the picture there's actually um these posts that are set up the red post and
it's basically so people can't drive a ATV or any kind of vehicle onto the bridge right so that's what you're
seeing in front but what I see behind those post to me is a white truck okay so now let's get into this a little bit
because Ron Logan was not supposed to be driving correct so he gets arrested for
this they also do a raid and they actually do a search on his property now the interesting thing here is I believe
that it looks like a white truck possibly a white truck that has a utility back on it so an interesting
thing about Logan is he had a car when they did the search um on his property that he had a car
that was impounded or a truck that was impounded which is white and has a utility back on it m so I I find that
kind of interesting I also find interesting that he's being charged with about four years now he'll probably only
serve two but seems like a very high sentence for a DUI it does I I've heard from several
people that that this was not his first DUI um I want to go on record stating that's just what I've heard uh I've not
reviewed any police records for Ron Logan but I've heard that they're being extra strict about the his probation
violations for a couple of reasons one it wasn't his first driving offense and two we have a situation here where he
wasn't fully honest with with the police and with the sheriff's department now a
lot of people will say that you know what he was charged with that and he was being held for so long because he is
actually a suspect in these murders um just to be clear here he wasn't supposed to be driving he was not supposed to be
drinking those were that was part of his probation um what we do learn Is Not only was he potentially buying these
tropical fish somewhere but then we learn later that he went to the city dump now immediately that puts up some
red flags because people were like well he's probably getting rid of evidence right from what I've been hearing he
went to the city dump hours before they went missing so there was no evidence to
discard it that time and furthermore where I think that he's getting this uh probation violation conviction from is
that I have heard that there is surveillance footage of him at a restaurant and I believe it might be a
pizza king um if you haven't had pizza king oh delicious well and I should throw out there too I think you know one
of the local pizza kings I don't know if this was the one that Ron was at but one
of them was part of donating money towards the reward money in this investigation it's a town of 3,000 how
many Pizza Kings do you need well it doesn't have to be specifically from that town people donated money from all
over the United States the thing here is though if this rumor is true and I feel
my gut tells me that it is that they got surveillance footage of basically what is an old man sitting drinking beers for
quite some time during the course of that day there's a chance that he might not have been home anytime from about
10:00 a.m. until after 5:30 that evening right um which would make if you're looking for a single person and you
think that there's only one person involved that would mean Ron Logan has to come off of your list right uh I I
there's a bunch of other stuff I mean he talks about his son and people want to know it was his son involved is Ron
covering up for his son uh we could spend a whole hour on this Logan character mhm I think what it
comes down to is when they did arrest him the sheriff's come out and say hey don't don't read into this too much
and I and I think sometimes they're just doing that to throw people off their Trail or whatever but they're like don't
read into this too much uh you know he is not a suspect that's what they say right right
and so and we were saying well why would you say that you know because if he was a
suspect then who cares right mhm you just tell the public yeah we yeah well we got him on this charge but he's a
suspect in these murders but we think that he Poss they they're possibly saying that because when he is in jail
that they need to say that so the inmates don't think that this guy is a child killer is a child killer right
yeah and you I mean he I believe he pled guilty to those charges and that could have been a part of his plea agreement
with them um the thing here is though you brought up his son now we don't know anything about Ron Logan's son at all so
of course uh not a ECT but the thing here is I you know if you just do the quick math in your head a 77y old man
would is very likely he has a son that fits the age range of the bridge guy yeah and so again what's his motive I
mean we got a 77 year old man that has no priors as far as you know sexual assaults or rape or or anything so that
doesn't make a lot of sense to me this is not a first-time offender this is not somebody's you know first time murdering
anybody so that's kind of weird to me the other people say well the motive is that he
was tired of these teenagers coming onto his property again when he's given these
interviews he's time and time again says this is a nice Trail to walk on this is
nice for people people to be on again you could just be lying um I don't get um a bad vibe from him when he's talking
I don't have this Vibe of this guy is a horrible you know douche Cano anything but I
think but that that's not to say that this guy is not some mean angry drunk either MH um well let's let's explore
that for a second because if this were the trial of Ron Logan okay and we had to put forth character Witnesses one
would suspect that you could put forward the oh he lied about his whereabouts to
police establishing an alibi that that suggest that he has bad character he lied to the police he didn't come
forward and say I was at a bar and drinking that day and yes I drove my car even though I wasn't supposed to he
didn't come forward and say that so that puts him in bad character if we want to
present a character witness on the opposite end well his ex-wife uh who does not like Ron at all and to put it
very politely she obviously has a very low opinion of Ron but but it sounds like I'm building a case against him the
thing here is though she has stated time and time again I've known this man for a
very long time I don't feel he has anything to do with this this guy does is not capable of such a horrible act
yeah and on top of on top of all that stuff too if there was DNA evidence left behind I believe this was sexually
motivated crime if it was a sexually motivated crime we probably have DNA if they thought this is as simple of a A to
B answer if law enforcement thought that and not just law enforcement I understand that it's a very small town
but you have to remember that the FBI was involved and when the FBI gets involved and then they start putting up
uh Billboards all over the the States you know 48 states or something like that the the FBI is no dummies if they
thought that uh Logan was their guy then it it would have been uh shut already he
would already be uh spinning the rest of his life in jail so I don't believe that
that brings us to the the the other big question here or the other big Theory that's been talked about a lot is this
is this person even local and I'm just going to start off by saying the interview with the local man and the
sheriff to me is very telling of a lot of things but you have two individuals that say I I thought that we'd get a
bite on something that would get some good information once the picture was released and once the picture was re
released the man giving the interview and the sheriff both stated we we've never seen this guy before so to me
that's leaning to the idea that this is an out of out of town killer and for those of of you that live in very big
cities um it might not be able to fully grasp this this thought you know this guy the sheriff in in Carroll County um
you know 3,000 people however many it's a small populated area he knows or knows
about just about everybody you know here's the thing usually when when a crime is committed in a smaller town
it's it's actually easier to solve in some manners okay sometimes they don't have the technology that the big cities
would have that that help the big city police but what they do have is if somebody broke into a home killed
somebody and then left well the sheriff he knows you know what I know these four
or five guys guys that they're always breaking into homes I'm going to go talk to them first that's where I'm getting
at with this and I think the captain's hit on something here it's weird to me is the guy local or or not local it's
weird to me because you would think that somebody would have to have a certain amount of knowledge about the area um
however I think that somebody could achieve this one of two ways and not be a local person maybe they grew up there
and they've moved away in their adult life and returned for some reason or return for the sole purpose of
committing a horrible crime like this or two could this person have arrived in town several days before and scouted out
the area and kind of formed a a general plan of what he wanted to do yeah possibly but it would be hard for them
to know that there was parent teacher conferences on a Monday and that school would be left out let out halfway
through the day right and that brings us to the good question of was this a planned attack or was it a crime of
opportunity well and let's talk about something we haven't really brought this up and I'm just going to it's been
called the meat packing place it's been called a bunch of different things I'm just going to call it the packing place
not far from this location there is a packing place now the interesting thing here is that you have trucks coming in
and out of this so you have your core set of workers you have your truck drivers coming in and out and they do
hire sexual sexual offenders now the that doesn't mean a lot cuz I think you would know the people that are in the
area or if they worked out of town I'm sure that they were you know looked into at some point mhm uh but what is really
interesting is the rumor is that this place was raided by the IRS now I think that was probably a cover up and it it
the FBI was probably involved somehow MH um but I think they did that in order to
get records of other trucking companies that they worked with and again I think that's this makes sense it makes sense
as far as the investigation goes it makes tons of sense and a couple things then I still think this crime was uh
sexually motivated I think it was opportunity and I think that it was somebody from out of
town hence the 40 uh you know States having Billboards everywhere yeah I I'm with you on that you know having the
Billboards in multiple States that's not a cheap thing to do um it's great that they did it and I applaud them for that
uh the thing here is though for me the local or not local thing I have to factor in whether I think that this
is a planned attack or not um you know and we have a situation where there was a inter an interview conducted by the
FBI now this was an interview with a man who owned property on the south side of
the creek um he was asked about his guns his vehicles and whether or not they had
any out buildings now this could just be a matter of General questioning that they're applying to everybody or it
could mean that they believe that a a gun was involved in this crime a vehicle was involved and an out building was
involved and if that's the case to me a gun a vehicle and an out building all point to some kind of planned attack it
doesn't doesn't look to me as if somebody just happened to see somebody and go all right I'm going to snatch
them and you you mentioned the thing with the kids being out of school well there's a couple things that makes me
wonder about that there is a possibility that if somebody was watching the area for days it could be a planned attack
meaning that they were waiting and could have been waiting for days to appear to
to view what they saw was the perfect victim or we have a situation that makes you wonder if if Monday was a school day
then it was a work day these were regular working hour hours who would have the means of not being accounted
for for a certain period of time on that Monday and there's also some rumor and and speculation that this is linked to a
Iowa case yeah and I'll read this very short article from wh tv.com uh in Iowa authorities may have a
new lead in an Iowa Cold Case this is because of the double murder investigation in Indiana 10-year-old
Elizabeth Collins and 8-year-old LC cook were kidnapped in July of 2012 their cousins uh their bodies were located
about six months later in a wooded area about 25 miles from where they were taken now the thing here is the girls
were rided they were last spotted riding their bikes near Meyers Lake in Evansdale okay um no one has been
charged in connection with their murders um their disappearance has some similarities to this recent uh
kidnapping and murders of the two girls in Indiana well we don't know if it's a kidnapping the Iowa well technically it
is technically it is uh the Iowa division of criminal investigation has been in contact with their counterparts
in Indiana about the case uh so far now this is this is an article that came out
shortly after the Indiana investigation so when I say so far this is from a month or so ago they're stating so far
they've shared notes about the two murder cases but haven't determined if there is a connection
um it's interesting though uh because you know abducting two people a double murder of of children is not very common
um and we see this where in both cases on top of that I believe both in both cases the girls disappeared on the 13th
of a month of the month now you know us armchair detectives we like to look at little minute details like that and say
that there's some reasoning for that and and most law enforcement in investigators will tell you usually
people don't think of things like that when they're committing these crimes um but it is strange that they both
disappeared on on the 13th of a month neither case do we have anybody charged or or any major suspects in either and
there you know this case is like we said from the beginning so hard to cover because the lack of the information out
there which on one side I applaud the police one side uh and I applaud the community we're not just talking about
law enforcement that you know found the bodies so there's probably going to be more leaks that come out you know in the
future with this but I I I would I want to make a little bit of a plea to the police to understand that there are a
lot of um smart Minds out there that might not be involved directly with law enforcement and I do feel like if there
was some bits of evidence that you know could be released without damaging your case that you might get a
lot of more help from the public yeah and the thing here is Captain to me I really think it's interesting the way
that they went about this investigation in the early stages I think it was very smart of them to release the picture of
the man and not state that he's a suspect um because as you and I were talking about earlier you know this guy
they could release this picture of this guy and he not maybe not know where the picture came from maybe he didn't know
that the picture was taken from Libby's phone or the audio taken at this point the audio was not released and maybe he
thinks well if we can get this guy to think well somebody else saw you there on that trail somebody else saw you on
that bridge near the time that the girls disappeared well that might that might coers him into coming forward and trying
to just clear his name and then boom you know who your guy is so I applaud them for sitting on that for for some time I
think that was very smart I also appreciate that they've come out and named him as a suspect and released the
Audio I think that there's a tip out there that they still need that they've not received yet I don't know that they
need to be telling us more than what they have and and and and my biggest fear is the reason why they're keeping
so much quiet is that there might not be DNA right um because they'll need certain things in the confession to to
help with this conviction um but the the other thing here is well and and as far
as confessions go is true because we've see it time and time again if you release too much information to the
public then you get you get some nut jobs coming in going I I did it yeah and it's like uh the only information you're
giving us is the information that we gave the public what I would like to see and if anybody has come across this or
could find it please email it to us or put it actually more important put it on our blog on on truecrime garage.com so
everybody can see it because I noticed that during the course of this investigation it said that the Indiana
State Police was working with the FBI to put together a profile of the killer right but I've not been able to find
that actual profile now sometimes they release these things and sometimes they do not when I go searching for it all I
find is articles talking about how they're going to be working on this profile the thing here is I think this
profile could be to this case I think that it could help solve this case and I tell you why I think that this horrible
person that that did this horrible act piece of [ __ ] he he's somebody's father
he's somebody's husband he's somebody's Uncle you know somebody is related to this guy somebody knows this guy
somebody suspects him the problem is the problem is sometimes when somebody that
you love is a is a real life monster you don't want to believe believe it and maybe you don't ever see that side of
that person and the thing here is maybe you have your suspicions but you're thinking to yourself you know what it
can't be him because the experts say that the person is 40 to 50 years old well this guy's that I know in love is
51 years old so it can't be him I'm not going to report him it looks like him it
sounds like him he had some weird scratch marks on his body but it can't be him because they're off on the age or
he doesn't own clothing that looks like that so it can't be him right no no we I
would like to see this profile because I think that if we have some officials telling us you know what here's a box
you you should think outside of the box on occasion but here's kind of a box of some parameters that we think might
Encompass who we think this killer is it might get the right person to pick up that phone or to email the proper tip to
the authorities right so you you got kind of two the you know um roads of thought one they're really
close so they don't want to give away information or one they're super far away mhm and that's what's scary because
these uh these girls deserve a lot they deserve they didn't deserve this and they they deserve uh
answers and their family deserves that as well I would just like to again think think about this Amy M Vic right mhm
they released new evidence that they found at the crime scene how many years later 20 years later yeah close to 20
years later you know and and for people that don't know the story the girl goes missing then she's found and um in that
area that she's found there was these curtains and maybe she was wrapped up in the curtains and maybe she wasn't but
they're customade MH now if you would have released that information 20 years ago you might have had a chance MH but
the person that made those could be passed away could not live in the area anymore so if this thing gets cold
you're going to have to release some stuff in my opinion mhm to get the community behind it and I'm glad that
we're covering this case even though it was very difficult as far as finding that a bunch
of information cuz we'd rather give you information than speculation yeah there I want to go
through one more rumor here because while we're talking about potential suspects and who we could be looking for
um it's been rumored that and I won't go into all the reasons why but one specific reason that I think needs to be
addressed it's been rumored that Libby fought very very hard that that she fought back and and may have put up a
hell of of a fight against this guy to the point where I've heard a rumor that her nails were shredded her fingernails
were shredded if that's the case that means she inflicted some serious damage on this guy and I hope that she did I
hope that those scratch marks were many and they were deep and they were very painful thing is somebody could have
seen those on this person for days afterwards and have suspicions you know we talk about things like a guy wearing
blue jeans or a jacket or a hoodie or maybe a camouflage hunting cap those things those are just clothing that that
he may have been wearing to disguise himself but I want to throw this out there too if this is somebody that you
know you don't really know this person if this person was in fact carrying a deer kit with him like we we said we
suspect maybe yesterday if he was carrying a deer kit with him I mean you cannot put into words how
to despicable and evil this person is you don't really know them now there's some things that the FBI wants to remind
us about wait what does the deer kit have to do with being evil you don't have to use your imagination too long to
think about what could have been in that deer kit and what could it could have been used for okay uh the the first the
thing here I want to talk about is what the FBI is trying to remind us about about this person you know we no longer
does it just have to be somebody that looks like the person in the picture sounds like the guy in the picture
because he could have been trying to disguise himself sounds like the guy in the clip yeah so the thing here is
they're reminding us you know do you know anybody that has changed their appearance since the 13th you know maybe
drastically you know February 13th yeah yeah the haircut shaved changed the way that they're dressing do you know
somebody that has started abusing drugs or alcohol since that date somebody that
has become anxious or irritable uh that that may not have possessed those type of emotions or or characteristics before
someone that canel an appointment or a social engagement on February 13th for unexplained reasons or 14th yeah
somebody that has obsessed over the case or constantly talks about where they were on February 13th um those are some
things that they're reminding us to think about when we look at that picture to think about when we hear that audio
clip and think about before you make that phone call or place that email male yeah and also think about the fact that
this is a 13 and 14y old girl you know 13 and think about the fact that it was a 13 and 14y
old think about the fact that it's a 13 and 14y old girl and how much they had to give to
this world that was taken away and uh this person that you might be suspicious of is a horrible monster m and you could
you could do you could um write a wrong in this world yeah and the other thing that I want to make sure that we mention
before we close up here today is that Libby and Abby I think in my opinion very brave and heroic young girls to be
in a situation as terrifying as as this and have The Bravery to record something
on your phone to to to potentially put yourself into further danger to try to collect evidence against this this evil
monster the thing here is we don't know if this guy has killed before we don't know if he will kill again if he's
capable of what took place on February 13th this it's unimaginable what this monster is
capable of and so I just think that you know we should take a moment to recognize The Bravery of those two young
girls and and I think they're heroes in my mind and should be in the in the community as well
there as a reminder the tip line is is still going on that phone number is 844455
5786 you can also email tips to Abby and Libby tip at CAC sh rf. again that phone number and the
email will be in the show notes um so if you have any information please submit your tips today so recommended reading
this week we're recommending California's lansom murder mystery by Tom zanello now this is a book that
takes place on Memorial Day 1933 when David lansom finds his wife dead in their Palo Alto home well he becomes the
only suspect and this is one of California's most Sensational trials after the judge sentenced David to hang
and San Quinton a group of Stanford colleagues formed the lansom defense committee and they they were able to get
several more retrials so check out this book so you can figure out did lansom truly kill his wife or was an innocent
man put on trial for murder check out California's lansom murder mystery and you can do that by going to True Crim
garage.com and click on the recommended page for everything true crime garage whether it be the new pint glasses or
the shirts go to True Crim garage.com thanks for joining us in the garage this week thanks for subscribing and telling
a friend and we and we'll have a big exciting announcement a little bonus thing for you uh hopefully by the end of
the week all right and until next week be good be kind and don't [Music] litter the Angie's List you know and trust is
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Delphi Murders /// Part 2 /// 111

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The double murder case of two Delphi, Indiana teenagers has left the Carrol County community on edge as law enforcement search for a killer. This is the investigation into the disappearance & murders of 14 year old Liberty German and 13 year old Abigail Williams. Tips and information can be submitted anonymously to AbbyandLibbyTip@CaCoShrf.com (mailto:AbbyandLibbyTip@CaCoShrf.com)

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the investigation into the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams, exploring theories and community reactions.

Key points

The Tragic Homicide of Two Teens. The community is shaken as police search for the killer of Libby German and Abby Williams.
Speculation and Theories. With limited information, speculation runs rampant regarding the investigation and the suspect.
Rumors of a Possible Pregnancy. A shocking rumor emerges that one of the victims may have been pregnant at the time of her death.
Sexually Motivated Crime Theory. The discussion centers around the possibility of a sexually motivated crime and the implications of privacy and time for the perpetrator.
DNA Evidence Confusion. Conflicting reports about DNA collected from the crime scene raise questions about its significance and potential suspects.
Rumors of Clothing Found. Reports suggest the girls' clothing might have been found in a creek, indicating a possible motive to dispose of evidence.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is Public Enemy Number One in my opinion.

8:34WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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