Ashley Okland ////// 917 | Forensic Files

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>> the Captain. >> Your mom goes to college. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for
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>> And let's go out of bounds here. We're going the distance. We have a cheers to
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the way over in Germany. Everyone we just mentioned, they went to truecrimegarage.com,
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>> I am on the mailing list. All right, everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
I first became aware of this case just shy of 3 years ago at CrimeCon in Orlando, Florida.
Just days prior to the weekend event, we released two episodes about a very eerily similar true crime story.
In September of 2023, True Crime Garage featured an incredibly frightening story
about a very successful realtor in Pennsylvania named Charlotte Fimiano. Charlotte, responding to a showing, left
her office to meet a potential buyer at a home that sat vacant and silent at the
dead end of Chelsea Lane. Charlotte was violently murdered inside that home. You can do a full review of that case.
That true crime story is episodes 698 and 699 on your garage radio dial. In fact, that is one of the most
frustrating cases that I have reviewed. At CrimeCon, a wonderful young lady about my age approached me.
Having heard our Charlotte Fimiano episodes, she told me about another successful realtor killed on the job.
That victim was her friend. She told me about her friend, Ashley Oakland. She told me about the murder that took
place in a townhouse. And that story stuck with me all of this time. Today, we are taking a good, hard look
at that true crime [music] story. This is True Crime Garage, and this is the homicide case of Ashley Oakland.
>> [music] [music] >> I recently [music] reviewed an old online article on A&E's True Crime
website that focused on why safety is a real concern for real [music] estate agents. The premise was
unsettling in its simplicity. Real estate agents routinely meet strangers, often alone,
in empty or unfamiliar properties. And professionalism requires warmth and trust. The
environment can look normal right up until it isn't. To anchor this concern in something measurable, the topic and
what was discussed in this article turned to the National Association of Realtors.
A statistic that 2% of residential real estate agents reported being victims of a crime
while on the job. This is from 2022. A figure that framed as roughly 30,000 agents of the 1 and 1/2 million agents
reported that they were victims of a robbery, physical attack, or a sexual assault.
Then came the harder thought in this article. Those are only the incidents that have
been reported. A second statistic widened the frame here. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that 23 real
estate professionals died from workplace violence in the year of 2022. This article, while it's talking about
how to stay safe, is pointing out these frightening statistics as a warning. And what started off in
this article feeling like a warning turned toward two cases that the article highlighted. First, Ashley Oakland
in Iowa. And also Beverly Carter in Arkansas. Their stories were different method,
different motive, and separated by years, but they were linked by the same occupational vulnerability. Being alone
with someone who has easy access to your time, your attention, and your location.
Speaking of location, Captain, let's go to West Des Moines, Iowa. This true crime story hits hard with a
particular kind of dread because it didn't take place in a dark alley or at night.
It unfolded in the kind of setting that many people instinctively categorize as safe.
On April 8th, 2011, [clears throat] Ashley Marie Oakland, then aged 27, she was working an open house in West Des
Moines. The property was a model townhome in the Stone Creek Villas subdivision, an area that's
described as quiet, newer, and upscale. The address is 558 Stone Creek Court. This is near 84th Street and EP True
Parkway. The development was associated with builders Rutland Homes or Rutland Homes, and described as roughly 70 units
that are there. And they're about a year old at this time in our timeline. It's the kind of assignment that looks
routine on the calendar, and that's part of what made this story so difficult to process. Nothing about
the location or the time of day hints at what is coming. >> Well, like you said, it's upscale. And
these are townhomes, but if you look at the picture of these townhomes, these are
these are large homes that are just >> that just happened to be connected. >> They look very big. Ashley Oakland was a
person rooted in Iowa. She was born in 1983 in Ames, Iowa. She grew up in Huxley,
Iowa alongside her sister and brother. Her childhood was described through ordinary tangible details. She was very
involved in sports, dance, 4-H, and she played the piano. These are the kind of things that families remember because
they can still picture them to this day. Ashley graduated from Ballard High School in 2002. After 2 years at the
University of Northern Iowa, she transferred to Iowa State University and then graduated in 2006 with a degree in
exercise science. Now, she initially considered a path in physical therapy, but by 2007 she entered real estate.
Her career was moving quickly. She was good at this. She was successful. She worked with JDR Group and Century 21 and
then joined Iowa Realty in 2010. People around her describe her as always moving,
someone who loved her friends and family intensely, someone who tried to make others feel seen. Her life in West Des
Moines included her significant other, his name is Eric Grubb, and their puppy that they shared together. Dog's name
Indy. >> Well, like you said, she's 27 years old. She's starting her career in real
estate, but also she's a very attractive young woman, which does help when you're in sales. She's
also deeply involved in the community here. She's involved in charities, different organizations. She was a big
sister and a supporting young professionals member. She traveled, she exercised, she
was known for loving to plan events and gatherings. The descriptions about Ashley, Captain, are consistent
across the board. Ashley was the kind of person who made other people feel included. To friends and family, she is
and always will be Ash. This is the story of an open house that turned into a crime scene. On April 8th,
2011, Ashley was hosting the open house at the model townhome at 558 Stone Creek Court.
Now, shortly before 2:00 p.m., something inside the townhome broke the shape of a
normal afternoon. The person who first realized that this was not a routine day or wasn't going to
be a routine day was a woman named Wanda Fowler. So, she's an employee of this Rottlund
Homes. And she says that she heard a commotion and then went to figure out what was going on. She goes into the
model unit where she heard this noise to see what was up. Inside, she says that she found Ashley unconscious and
bleeding on the floor. Wanda calls 911 immediately. Paramedics rush to the scene.
Then they rush Ashley to Iowa Methodist Medical Center in Des Moines and despite the emergency response,
sadly, it was too late. Ashley had passed. Yeah, and what they're going to figure out is that she's been shot
multiple times. That's right. Medical experts determine she'd been shot twice, once in the head and once in the chest.
What investigators confronted next made this case even more disturbing. Police described the crime scene as
baffling. They say, "We have no signs of a struggle. They say we have no evidence
of a theft, no indication of sexual assault, and of course, this all pointing to no clear motive that can be
seen by detectives." Right, and it's an open house, so there's no sign of a break-in. But what makes this
fascinating to me is it it's an open house, so anybody could enter at any time. And if you've ever gone to a open
house, you walk in and there might be people there, there might be a couple people there, there might be a lot of
people there. So, the fact that for a time period there was only two people there, Ashley,
our victim, and whoever shot her. Yeah, the person or persons responsible for her murder. And I'm glad that you
addressed that there, Captain, because that was a question that I have seen time and time again on message boards
regarding this case. Was the door unlocked? And everyone and that responds to that, folks that work
in the industry will tell you when it's an open house, the door 99% of the time is unlocked and you are
just waiting and welcoming people in to come and explore, come and look around, uh meet you, do a little meet and greet,
and hopefully you can give this them some good information and maybe they're interested in that property or in this
case you have multiple properties, multiple houses, homes that could be for sale. Yeah, and sometimes at these open
houses there's more than one real estate agent. So, it could be a real estate agent that's looking for a property that
they might want to show to one of their clients to purchase, or sometimes these events for these townhouses or
condos, there might be multiple agents that are there to help possible clients look through the property.
>> And what we don't have here, Captain, is information regarding the traffic of
that day, right? An open house you typically see people coming and going, sometimes it's couples, sometimes it's
families, sometimes it's individuals. I don't have any report of if they were busy that day, if it was very quiet, but
what we do know it is as you have stated. At the time of the murder it appears that the only two people inside
this home is Ashley and her killer. So, what do we have? We have a young agent killed at work inside a model home in
broad daylight. And the crime scene, at least in the details that are publicly stated, did
not explain why she was killed. The public statement we get is authorities said there is no reason to believe
the shooting was anything other than an isolated incident. We hear that so many times in these
cases. I don't know what they are basing that off of. They did not tell us how they arrived at that conclusion.
Sometimes, we've said this in the garage a dozen times. A lot of times we suspect
that that is just a sort of protocol, a statement that they give it throw out there if they don't
see any obvious reasons to be concerned for the public or the community. They throw this out there to make sure that
there's not any widespread panic. Yeah, and if I'm an investigator on this case, I'm going
to look at it in three different ways. Who is connected to Ashley? Is there anybody in her life? Is there
ex-boyfriend? Is there a not current relationship? Is there a family member? There's somebody that has something
against Ashley. Then my next step is to go, "Well, it's possible that it's just a random attack that was orchestrated
through this open house." But then I think you could also go, "Well, what about this property? This model home.
Who has been showing this? Who who has done open houses? Has it just been one real estate company? Has it been
multiple real estate companies? What's Ashley's tie to this property into this company?"
>> The shock hit her workplace immediately. In the wake of the murder, her colleagues made a rare decision.
They asked agents to shut down operations and cancel weekend open houses. It's grief, it's fear, and it's caution all
wrapped into one big ball here of confusion. So, you have an entire slice of an industry stopping to acknowledge
something nobody wanted to believe could happen, a murder of one of their colleagues. Now, I I think it's partly
that, you know, that's what the report kind of always was here, but I can't imagine any
agent willing to show a property by themselves or have any enthusiasm to show a property or sit at an open
house that weekend when we don't know what the hell's going on. We don't know why this happened at all. Yeah, cuz we
don't know if Ashley was targeted or was it Ashley's company that was targeted, or was it
the townhouse company that was targeted? >> Services for Ashley were held shortly
after her passing. I have reports of a service in Huxley, Iowa and in West Des Moines. More than 1,600 people attended
the celebration of life ceremony. From those ceremonies, Reverend Mike Householder told mourners during the
service, quote, "What happened to Ashley Oakland is evil. It was evil and there's
no other way to say it. There's nothing righteous about it. There's no moral in it. It was evil." End quote.
During April, the same month, 2011, the investigation drew an immediate surge of
information. More than 340 tips came in. Yet no arrests were made. As attention intensified, so did
reward money for information. Police announced a reward fund that reached $67,000
that month through Polk County Crime Stoppers. And at the time, it was described as the largest reward Polk
County Crime Stoppers had ever created. Lieutenant Jim Barrett of the West Des Moines Police Department told KCCI
news that investigators moved quickly enough to execute at least one early search warrant in the case. That
warrant, however, was sealed by a Dallas County judge, meaning the public could not see where the police searched or
what they were looking for. Yeah, and this is going to be a a massive investigation. Hundreds of interviews,
hundreds of leads. I mean, you got to interview her friends, family, her co-workers.
All all of her current clients and possibly even her recent past clients. By late
April 2011, national exposure increased regarding the case. This is when CBS News featured the case through its 48
Hours related crime website. That coverage triggered additional tips and anonymous calls tracked by report
numbers so callers could remain unidentified. So when you called in, you got a random number.
That way if you needed to call back, you could identify yourself by that number and then they could connect your
additional information or call to your previous submitted information. Well, it's not clear to me how many of these
units were built and how many of these units were sold. So the chances of there being solid eyewitnesses, I think would
be difficult. So it There were 70 units in this development. And from my understanding, you're right. We don't
have a clear number as to how many sat vacant or empty. And they're only a year old, roughly,
per reports. My guess is I mean, it could be 60% capacity. I We have no idea. But yeah, roughly about 70
units. I think too, what what hinders this investigation, you're pointing to you know, where's our eyewitnesses?
Where's our earwitnesses? Especially in an area close-knit. Right? We're close quarters. Well, and we have
gunshots, so that's something you would hear. Well, and we know at least one person did. She heard some kind of
commotion and went running to figure out what was going on, finds our victim on the floor. I think what hinders this
investigation and limits our and really reduces our numbers on earwitnesses, eyewitnesses, is
it's 2:00 p.m. on a Friday, a workday. You know, most people are are not hanging out in this neighborhood at that
time, sadly, or we probably would have had a lot more information. Now, regarding these anonymous calls and tips
and leads that the police are getting, we have a tip stream and it's really just a thread that kind of becomes
familiar and echoed. Witnesses mentioned a black SUV, possibly a Cadillac Escalade, seen near
the model home roughly at the time of the murder. Now, others described a man only very
vaguely. Repeatedly referring to this man as the scruffy man. I believe the reports were a scruffy man that was on
the younger side. So this intrigues me. This man is often described as being about Ashley's age. So we're looking at
mid to late 20s. Callers seem to circle in and around two or three names again and again. This doesn't produce
an arrest and from what I could find, Captain, those names we don't we don't know what those names were. However,
it's mentioned that there were names brought to them via these tips. In the surrounding community, the uncertainty
spread beyond the specifics of the case. In late April, shortly after the murder,
a tech security professional, his name Bill Corwin, reported a 30% increase in business
tying it to the destabilization effect of an unknown threat. He tells KCCI news, quote, "Anytime
something is unknown, it challenges people's [music] security." >> [music] [music]
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I learned it from my adoptive mom. Hold my hand. You hold my hand. Learn about adopting a teen from foster
care at adoptuskids.org. You can't imagine the reward. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the US Department of
Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. >> [music] [music] >> All right, we are back. Talk hands in
the air. Cheers to you, Colonel. >> [music] >> Raise them high. Say it loud. Cheers to you, Captain. Cheers to people
in the back. Well, it makes you wonder if these companies should be either working together as a team.
And so that they're showing up on location with not just one individual. And then it also makes you wonder if
that's not the case, then maybe these companies should have security that goes with them, right? For protection.
But come on, this is a new build. It wouldn't be that hard to install some security cameras. Because you know it's
the model house. You know that this is going to have multiple showings and multiple open houses.
>> Yes. And another unsettling event in our timeline here is Wanda Fowler. So this is April 23rd. Wanda Fowler, the
employee who found Ashley, left a note for her mother suggesting that she may have been contemplating
suicide. Her mother files a missing person's report with the police and luckily the
police were able to locate Wanda before any harm was done. The information provided did not
establish, though, a connection to Ashley's murder. But of course, the timing certainly
is very hard to ignore. Look, she's going to be a suspect because she's the one that finds Ashley, right? Mhm. But
it could be finding her and and [clears throat] seeing this victim and trying to get her
help. This This could be a traumatic event if you're struggling with mental health. In May, the following month,
Ashley's family continued to speak out looking for justice for their daughter and sister.
Ashley's mother, her name is Deb Cochran, spoke publicly to KCCI. Her words didn't claim certainty, but
they carried the logic of a family trying to make sense of what police could not yet explain. She said she
believed Ashley may have known the person who killed her because there had been no struggle. She says in her mind
she could picture a familiar human moment. Ashley looking up, smiling, treating someone as ordinary and safe
until the moment turned. She said that she thinks Ashley simply looked up to greet whoever it was and then
the trigger was pulled and then that was it. It was very quick in her mind is what she says. And
the family also shared a detail. Look, we're not getting any details from detectives
in this case. So this was interesting to find. The family shared this detail that Ashley
had actually sent a text message to a friend less than 5 minutes before it's believed that she was shot. And while
they did not tell us exactly the wording of that text message or if it was responded to, what they did say is they
reviewed the information and the message was not a plea for help. So based off of
that, what we have to go on here, Captain, is that 5 minutes before the trigger was pulled, it appears
everything was normal. Or at least it appeared that way to Ashley at the time. Her brother Josh
described Ashley as trusting and relentlessly positive, someone who would not naturally assume that a person
stepping into an open house might be there for anything other than business. Now, by some point in May of 2011,
police disclosed the investigation had expanded. Over 500 tips had come in and investigators had requested, obtained,
and executed four search warrants. Again, all of these sealed from the public. >> Difficult too when there's that many
interviews and leads because if I'm the head of this investigation, I want those tips and those interviews
done by the same individuals because [clears throat] if they're doing all the interviews, they're going to be able to
pick up on little nuances, they're going to know the timeline better than anybody.
But that's that's a lot of work. I mean, think about that. If somebody said to you, "Hey, you have 500
interviews." You go, "Okay, one a day, I'll I'll get done in about a year and a half."
>> In June, so this is This is another weird portion of the story that I mean, it just simply cannot be
ignored. And who knows what the connection, if any, but it doesn't sound like there there is. We have June 8th,
2011, Joseph Kurth. So this man named Joseph Kurth committed suicide. Joseph had been
interviewed by police regarding Ashley's homicide. Keep in mind that by this point dozens,
likely maybe even a couple hundred of people, couple hundred people had been interviewed in some form or fashion.
Joseph's sister goes on the record. She says that Joseph had been cleared for the crime.
But police declined to say if he was involved or not. He was found dead in his black
Oldsmobile Bravada, which is a a car, not an SUV. So this does not match witnesses seeing that SUV, possibly a
Escalade, around the crime scene. Is this guy scruffy guy? Well, that's what's confusing here cuz
his sister says he that unfortunately Joseph killed himself due to financial problems, ongoing
long-term financial problems. Right. And then in in regard to what you're asking,
your question, I did find one report stating that by this time, this marker on our timeline,
that around June of 2011, police did say they believed that they had located the
scruffy man referenced in the tips. And after speaking with him, they believed he had no involvement in the
murder, thus the investigation still had no suspect. But again, to be clear, I only have one report of
them stating that scruffy man had nothing to do with the crime. The And and nobody ever
states whether he, Joseph, is the scruffy man or not. He would be older than the description that was provided.
He was older than than Ashley. He [snorts] did have some involvement with those companies that we've previously
mentioned. Right. So that makes it interesting. It's bizarre that there's a lot of this activity going on
surrounding this ongoing investigation, which is still very in its very early stages, right? It's only June. It's 2
months after she was killed. >> Well, and this is tough too because I mean, there's a lot of triggers for
mental health, but I would think that in the real estate game, if you're whether you're a builder or you're an
agent, to me it seems like a occupation that's kind of feast or famine. And so if you're not selling
properties, if you're not listing properties, if you're not if you don't have clients buying homes, where's the
money coming from, right? So you could you could work a lot with little pay, so that would be triggering as far as
mental health goes. >> Well, and and so we can move on from this Joseph Kurth, the the thing about
him that makes him really stand out in the timeline is is the statements, right? Nothing what
he said in particular, but it's more the statements of his sister. The way she words it makes it sound like he was at
one point a suspect and then cleared. Right. >> But then we have police saying a very
different statement of he was not a suspect and we've not cleared anybody. We and we didn't clear him. So um very
conflicting statements about a person who is now deceased very early on in this investigation. Let's go to
September of the same year where we have Lieutenant Jim Barrett. He told KCCI that investigators had accumulated over
600 leads, spoken to more than 400 people, received 200 Crime Stopper tips. Yet despite the interviews,
lead after lead, tip after tip, all without a single public turning point that explained why
Ashley had been killed at all. This very quickly is starting to feel like it's going to be a long pursuit
through a very dense fog. And I know that all departments are not always forthcoming with information to the
family, but think about how sucky that would be. Mhm. Your friend, your family member is
murdered. There seems to be no motive. It's not like she's murdered in her house. There
we have no sign of a break-in because it's open house, we have no sign of robbery.
We So we have no clue who did [clears throat] this, why they did this. But then if the police department is
sharing any information with the family, they're probably going, "Hey, we're interviewing a lot of people. We got a
ton of tips coming in." That that's going to give you hope, right? You're going, "Well,
it's not like they have nothing. They have a lot of stuff coming in." But all that stuff coming in just seems
to pile up to nothing. Right. And back to what you had said earlier, they they have a lot of people to talk to and
obviously by those numbers and reports that given to us by the lieutenant, they they were actively doing that. They had
spoke to more than 400 people. Let's go to the following year where the reward doubles to $150,000
for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the murder of Ashley Oakland.
Meanwhile, that physical space, the town home where Ashley died, remained part of
the story. The town home where she was killed was still for sale. And for the neighbors, for the folks
that lived there, it became a sad fixed reminder. It's a landmark of unease. It's also a landmark to to scare the
folks that live there. Who did this and why haven't they been caught and and could could my family or myself be in
danger here? Absolutely. So what we see is this stretch of time didn't solve the case, but it did
it did continue to carry the torch of how people thought of Ashley and it did shape how the
larger public carried Ashley's name. So in late January of 2014, the Iowa Association of Realtors donated $100,000
to the Ashley Oakland Star Playground Project. So this is a campaign tied to Variety,
the Children's Charity of Iowa. The playground was planned for Ewing Park in Des Moines and was described as
the first in the metro area intended to provide play opportunities for children with special needs. The fundraising goal
was $500,000 and the groundbreaking celebration was May of that year, held at the park, of
course. This playground, I'm happy to report, still exists. Many people are getting a
lot of enjoyment out of it still to this very day. If you want to learn more about the project, if you wish to
donate, there is a website, ashleyoaklandstarplayground.com. Check that out. In September of 2014,
another realtor is targeted in Iowa police were paying attention. So now, Captain, we go to Scott,
Arkansas. Real estate agent Beverly Carter disappeared while showing a home to a prospective male client in a rural
isolated area outside of Little Rock. 49-year-old Beverly Carter, a Little Rock, Arkansas realtor, was
killed after setting up an appointment to show an empty home. Beverly Carter was reported missing September 25th,
2014, to the Pulaski County Sheriff's Office, which later said that her body was found
on Tuesday, September 30th, in a shallow grave. Authorities in Arkansas arrested parolee
Aaron Michael Lewis, age 33, of Jacksonville, Arkansas, and charged him with capital murder in connection with
the case. Police accused Aaron Lewis of setting up an appointment with Beverly Carter to view a vacant house in
a rural area near Little Rock, and then killing her, and burying her body on the
grounds of a concrete company where he had once worked. Authorities not only arrested Lewis, but also his
estranged wife, Crystal Lowery. Investigators said they arranged a fake showing to kidnap Beverly Carter for
ransom. Then they killed her when the plan went down the tubes. Lewis received two life terms, and
Lowery received 30 years in prison. A quote attributed to Lewis was repeated because it distilled the
predatory logic in plain language. He said he targeted Beverly Carter because she was, quote, a woman that
worked alone, and a rich broker. I'll sum that up. Easy target. Yeah, and if you're investigating
Ashley's case, then you have to go, okay, well, maybe there's not one perpetrator here. Maybe there's multiple
perpetrators, and and maybe it's not just a random killing. Maybe it was an attempted kidnap.
And so, does that make sense with any of the leads that we've got so far? West Des Moines police contacted Arkansas
authorities to see if there was any possibility at all of a connection between Beverly Carter's murder and
Ashley Oakland's unsolved killing. Sergeant Ken O'Brien, a spokesman for West Des Moines police, said that police
wanted to know, obviously, where Lewis was in April of 2011 when Ashley Oakland was killed.
The good sergeant described the outreach as part of a continuing effort to exhaust every
plausible angle. The goal, of course, was not to claim a link. It was to make sure no link was being
missed, and we can report that no connection was found. In April of 2019, West Des Moines
police introduced a new tool in hopes of generating fresh leads in this case, a website called Answers for Ashley.
Uh by that point, investigators had followed up on more than 900 leads. The goal was simple to describe and brutally
difficult to achieve. Find the one piece of information where someone was, what someone saw,
what someone heard, what someone kept quiet, that could finally pull the case out of limbo and
revive this investigation. In 2024, the state of Iowa launched a statewide resource at the Iowa Cold Case Unit.
Uh this is something that is happening in many states. States that have the funding, at least, are forming these
cold case units. Some were years ago, some more recent. In Iowa, in this case, just 2024.
Sounds like something a a beer company would use to promote something, the cold case
package. That's right. A 24-pack cold case unit. Ashley's brother, Josh, attended the announcement of this the
genesis of this Iowa Cold Case Unit. And it he's just one member that's alongside other families
that are hoping and praying for answers in their loved ones' unsolved cases. He said
one of the unit's investigators was now working was dedicated to Ashley's case, describing the investigator as, quote,
fired up to solve it. Josh pointed to another milestone referenced in KCCI's coverage of
the cold case unit, the unit's first arrest. So this is a separate case altogether,
but this case involved a murder charge filed 36 years after Barbara Lenz, I'll spell that, L E N Z, went missing.
36 years later. So for families waiting for years for movement, this matters big
time. Not as comfort, but as proof that stalled cases can change when resources and focus change. Yeah, and it's proof
that the cold case unit is having an effect. Absolutely. Absolutely. We love ourselves a good cold case squad, and
here in Iowa, it's obviously working. That was 2024 there, Captain. Let's bring things up to speed, up to
current day. We just said that the cold case squad, the cold case unit there in Iowa is working. Well, apparently so, my
friend, because West Des Moines police detectives arrested a woman named Kristin Elizabeth
Ramsey, age 53, on March 17th, 2026. Uh we're talking this is just like 10 days ago. Yeah, first of all, I need to
get like a button that I push for the Unsolved Mysteries update. Oh, I love that music plays.
Oh, it's every time it happen, you're like, oh [ __ ] Part of that one of my favorite things that when you would hear
that music, you know, cuz you don't know that there's going to be an update. And
then that music pops up. My favorite is when we have a composite sketch of the of the suspect. Right away, when I hear
the music, I'm I'm going I want to see if it looks like the sketch. I want to see if the guy looks like the sketch.
Right. >> So all this time, and finally we get an arrest in the case. Now, look, our
listeners are very smart. They've been in the garage with us for a long time, so they know we how we do our business.
As you heard, garage friends, there was not a whole lot of details or information regarding evidence, or as
pointed out, the police never clearly stated a motive, and from what we could see, or at least what was released
publicly, there's there's no way for us to come up with a great motive, either. So, we don't know what they were working
with, how much they were holding back. I'm actually suspicious that they weren't holding back much. I'm thinking
there might not have been a whole lot of much to work with at the the crime scene.
And we get this arrest of Kristin Elizabeth Ramsey, age 53, arrested this month, this year.
She's arrested without incident. The announcement, the formal announcement, anyway, followed came the following day.
This arrest came after Dallas County a Dallas County grand jury returned a true bill indictment against Kristin Ramsey.
She was arrested and charged with first-degree murder, the first-degree murder of Ashley Oakland, and she's
currently being held in the Dallas County Jail on a $2 million to further the mystery, police and
prosecutors currently will not discuss what led to Ramsey's arrest, but we should note that Kristin Ramsey, at the
time, worked for that Rutland Homes, the company that built the model home where
Ashley Oakland was killed. It's possible that the real estate company had some kind of deal with the developers. That
is that is a common practice. Absolutely. That that that There's I believe that's absolutely the
situation without them putting it to print. Um that is a very, as you said, common
situation, and would be in and if we want to further get into the weeds about that
time period and the industry, that would make complete and total sense. We have hundreds and hundreds of cases that
people suggest to us through the website, through social media. We put those all on a list, and then we
start putting those on the calendar. When we put this case on the calendar, it was a cold case.
It it was standing still. By the time we go to hit record, we have somebody arrested. Now, there could be more than
one individual that's involved, but as of right now, it's just this Rams Ramsey lady. But also, it
seems like there was some rumors, some community rumors. This is not confirmed, but there was some rumors that then led
to this investigation. All the other stuff law enforcement is keeping private, and which is obviously just
within that community because it's it's a local legend, right? It becomes this local legend, it's a local mystery, and
with law enforcement keeping all this information back because they still have to build a case to go to trial and try
to get a conviction. So, it's hard to even say that this case is closed or solved yet because we don't
have a conviction. All we have at this moment is charges. We have an arrest, we have somebody sitting in a jail cell,
and as you're absolutely right, it's not this it's not a a crime or or a murder that's
been adjudicated at all. Now, as you heard in the trailer today, this was a case that I first learned about at
CrimeCon Orlando, and then it it it stuck with me, it haunted me, and eventually it made its way to our crime
calendar. And it was weird that this it's not uncommon for us to cover a case and then months later or years later
it's solved. We we we rally around that, and we love that. That's like one of our favorite parts of
doing this show. We get to celebrate a little bit Heck, yeah. >> when those cases are closed out or an
arrest is finally made, or somebody is eventually found or located. The this was a the weird scenario of while
we were inching our way toward and had already started some of the collection of information,
it an a an arrest was announced. Now, I'll get into some speculation here first before we get into what we do
know, okay? So, Well, just quickly, there is a roughly a 10-year age gap between this now suspected killer
and our victim Ashley. Yeah, she would have been about 12 years older than Ashley. My speculation is this. Again,
I'm worried that they don't There cases where it's very obvious to us that they're holding a lot back. And
there's cases sometimes where they say that they're holding a lot back, and whether they are or not is neither here
nor there. Sometimes it that is the case, and sometimes it is not. It's just a stance, a posturing that they that law
enforcement will do. And for good reason. Often times there's strategy involved in that stance. This
is a case where I worry that you know, they've never said that we're holding a lot back here.
This is a case where I just worry that there's not a lot of evidence. I worry that
how much do they have on this suspect? And like you said, I you you put it in the best terms,
the most appropriate terms possible here in this scenario. Well, some would say I'm getting better at my
job. >> a case is what you said, and that is absolutely correct. Now, what So, until they build that case,
until we learn more, I don't feel so confident about a conviction here. Now, I say that to circle the wagons back to
the arrest. I feel very confident about the arrest. Why? It's been almost 15 years. There's not a
rush. There's not a whole hell of a lot of pressure to to make a a flimsy arrest here. And
but what do we know? We know that they didn't get an arrest warrant from a judge. We got a grand jury true bill
indictment. Sorry, public. I'm a member of the public, so I feel like I can say this.
We're not as smart as the judges, okay? So, a grand jury can get it wrong. Judges can get it wrong, too.
But the grand jury said indict. They went, they got her, they charged her with first-degree murder.
She's being held on $2 million cash only bond. What we do know is this. KCCI Cruise, the news crew,
they were the only, as they reported anyway, the only camera present at Kristen Ramsey's registered home in
Woodward, Iowa. So, there the news crew observed the West Des Moines canine units, crime scene investigators, and
officers conducting a search of the property using metal detectors. Looking for the gun, right? They're looking very
likely looking for that gun. Now, Kristen Ramsey, her maiden name is Palmer or Pommer, p o
m m e r. She got married in 1995 to Toby Ramsey, who is the owner of a local concrete and snow removal business
according to his LinkedIn page. Toby Ramsey also sits on the board of adjustments and appeals in Woodward,
which is a city about 30 miles northwestish of Des Moines. Kristen Ramsey worked in Des
Moines real estate in the industry for almost 30 years according to her LinkedIn profile. It says that in the
late '90s she joined the Iowa division of the Rottlund Company, a major builder of
town homes and condos at the time. And remember, Ashley Oakland was killed inside a Rottlund town home that was on
the market. At the time of Ashley Oakland's death, Kristen Ramsey was a Rottlund sales [snorts] manager. After
working for that company for years, and then because of the housing market crash
downturn. Oh, so some of this in 2011 is fallout from that housing market crash.
So, the company that Ramsey worked for shuttered and sold off assets in late 2011.
Grayhawk Homes, which is another developer, bought Rottlund's Iowa division. This is according to Builder
Magazine. Ramsey Kristen Ramsey in turn became a title officer at Midland Title and Escrow, which is a division of Home
Services of Iowa, a major parent company of several local real estate businesses.
So, she began working for that company, a different company, several months after Ashley Oakland's death. Here's
something that I found incredibly intriguing, Captain. So, as said, Kristen Ramsey at the time worked for
Rottlund Homes, the company that built the model home where Ashley Oakland was killed. Ramsey's then boss, his name is
Steven Kahn, told ABC News. He said, "Nothing about Kristen Ramsey led him to suspect she may have been involved in
Ashley's death." Quote, "She was the nicest lady. I am totally shocked." And he goes on to note that he sat next to
Kristen Ramsey at Ashley Oakland's funeral. Now, as we said, Kristen Ramsey is being held on that $2 million cash
bond. Her attorney said that despite being part of a two-income household, she cannot afford the $2 million cash
bond, right? I mean, what everyday family can? Right. So, her attorney has requested a reduced bond. As part of the
request, Kristen Ramsey has agreed to several conditions if she were to be released while she waits trial. This
including GPS monitoring, a curfew, supervision by a pretrial release officer, and surrendering her passport.
And her attorney saying, "Look, she's not a flight risk." Whatever. Anybody facing a murder trial
should be considered flight risk. I mean, Well, it's difficult here, too, cuz we
don't know if there's somebody else involved. And are these charges just to then put I mean, obviously they
they got some they got a grand jury to say, "Hey, yeah, you can go ahead and charge this individual. We took a look
at the evidence, but to get an indictment in a grand jury trial, it's a lot easier than a actual trial to
get a conviction. Well, it's it's not a conviction, it's just a hey, go and arrest this person.
And as you said, and like the police have openly said here, they and prosecutors will be
building a case. So, I mean, I'm not here to give legal advice, but if I were Ramsey,
and the way I look at this, I don't know how much they have. I I question how much they have,
especially at this time. I'm not waiving my right to speedy trial. I want to get
in there as quick as possible. And I want this thing in front of a judge. I don't want to another jury to to point
the finger at me. So, a a couple of things here. Back to something you said earlier, we don't know if anybody else
is involved, and that is true. I want to be clear that I'm not I'm not striking that as a possibility. What we do have
in a case where police have released so few statements, the one statement that they made after Kristen Ramsey was
arrested is that no other arrests are going to be made in this case. So, it sounds like they
think she is solely involved or the only person involved here. Uh we do have an individual that that
is deceased that we already discussed, Joseph. Right. >> Yeah, you're not arresting a dead
You're not arresting a dead person, and I do I and you're exactly right, Captain. I'm I want to make clear I'm
not pointing a finger at him, but anybody else that has passed since then. I mean it's almost 15 years. Right.
Anybody else that has passed since then, you're not arresting them either. So, that doesn't while that statement may
sound like she's the only one involved, that doesn't mean that 100 thousand percent. The No, cuz we've heard from
law enforcement before that when they make the arrest, they go, "Oh, well, Kristen Ramsey is
the only individual that's responsible for this crime." And they're not stating that. So, it's very possible that
there's somebody else involved, but that person has passed away either due to suicide or some other cause cuz as you
said >> Right. >> Vehicular accident. Yeah. Couple things that I'm really curious that I would
suspect we're going to learn much more about is one obviously what evidence did they present to the grand jury to
get the indictment? That's going to be really intriguing. Yeah, but motive isn't evidence though. Uh but you're
right. No, you're saying what is the motive. >> Yeah. That's what That's what I'm most curious
of. What Why the hell would this person do this? It It doesn't Well, like like her
her co-worker Yeah, like her co-worker {slash} boss said, like she was the nicest lady. I'm
totally shocked. Like this guy he's like I had no idea that and and he said, "I sat next to her at
Ashley Oakland's funeral." So, how well did the two know each other? Did she go there to because she's just
completely evil and wanted to see the damn thing play out? Did she go there just because she thought, "Well, it'd be
weird if I didn't show up?" I would I maybe I'm uh >> It looks suspicious. Yeah.
>> Exactly. And then >> Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. What evidence, what motive
I I'm also very curious what we can learn about this Wanda Larson, the woman that found
Ashley Oakland. I I what What details did she give? What did she see? What did she description of what
she claimed she heard to police and how they were able to work that information. Very curious about that as
well. Now, as we said, her attorney Ramsey's attorney has requested a reduction in
bond. In a separate motion, her attorneys are also attempting to block a potential warrant. Okay, so this search
warrant would allow investigators to seize and search her cell phone and other electronic devices. Now, her
defense is arguing that searching devices that did not even exist at the time of the alleged crime 15
years ago would not be necessary It'd be completely unnecessary, right? These these items, devices didn't exist. So,
they're saying it's not necessary. I don't know if I agree with I don't know if I agree with that. I don't agree
with it. I mean, but she has a job to do. Right. She has to defend her client. So,
of course they're going to say, "That's not necessary. Don't look underneath these rocks."
>> We don't know what they would find or if it's necessary until once they're examined. Now, if the warrant is granted
though, her attorney is is asking the court to issue a protective order to safeguard
any privileged or confidential information. I hope that they would. Uh Kristen Ramsey is scheduled to appear in
court again on March 30th when a judge is expected [music] to rule on both defense motions.
>> [music] [music] >> All right. Want to thank everybody for listening [music] and joining us here in the garage.
Thanks for telling your mother. Thanks for telling your brother. It'll be interesting because [music]
we know there's going to be updates. So, as those updates come out, we'll be able
to share that information with you. And we do a lot of updates on our other show
Off the Record, which is on Patreon and Apple podcast subscription. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the
beautiful listeners? Yeah, and and to point something out too, that our episode will leapfrog the motions,
right? That that are to take place on March 30th. So, we're recording this prior to that court appearance if it
does go down. We know it's like a 50% chance, right? Half the time these things don't seem to go down or they get
moved. But yeah, look to our social media. If there's anything of note that comes out of that court appearance, we
will be doing our best to keep you up to speed on the situation. And yes, Captain, recommended reading this week
Killing Time with John Wayne Gacy, Defending America's Most Evil Serial Killer on Death Row by new friend of the
show Karen Conti. John Wayne Gacy raped, tortured, and murdered 33 boys and young
men, burying most of them in the crawl space under his Chicago home. Karen Conti was in high school at the time
watching the bodies being removed on television. 14 years passed and then through a weird twist of fate, Karen
Conti, at that time a young and inexperienced attorney, was called upon to handle
Gacy's final death row appeals. The serial killer soon becomes her most famous, difficult, and haunting client.
30 years after Gacy's execution, Karen Conti looks back through the eyes of a seasoned professional on the legal and
media circus that ensued and her countless hours of detailed conversations with the killer clown. We
hear for the first time about Gacy's gruesome body book. Were Were there more victims? We hear about conspirators
involved in the murders. Potentially, what secrets were buried with this serial killer when the state
executed him. Karen Conti was on our very popular Apple subscription and Patreon show Off the Record. She has had
an amazing career as an attorney and radio talk show host. The book is available on Kindle Unlimited. So, if
you're a subscriber there, free to you, go get it. It's also available on Audible. Again, if you're a subscriber,
go get it. And if you're not a sub subscriber there, get the paperback on Amazon. Again, that
title is Killing Time with John Wayne Gacy, Defending America's Most Evil Serial Killer on Death Row. You'll find
that title and many more on our recommended page on our website truecrimegarage.com.
And until next week. >> Be good, be kind, and don't litter. >> [music] [music] [music]
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Contact store for participation, which varies. Courage. I learned it from my adoptive mom. Hold my hand? You hold my
hand. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care at adoptuskids.org. You can't imagine the reward. Brought to
you by AdoptUSKids, the US Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council.

Ashley Okland ////// 917

Part 1 of 1

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Ashley Okland was 27 years old when she was murdered. She was a real estate agent and had been showing a model townhouse when she was shot twice and left to die by her assailant. Someone heard a commotion inside 558 Stone Creek Court. When they went inside to investigate, Ashley was lying on the floor. Medics rushed her to the hospital where she later died. After nearly 15 years of investigating, there has finally been a major break in this case.

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Brief Summary

Ashley Oakland, a realtor, was murdered in 2011; Kristin Ramsey was arrested in 2026 for her murder.

Key points

The Tragic Case of Ashley Oakland. Ashley Oakland, a young realtor, was murdered during an open house in 2011.
Bill Corwin's Insight. Bill Corwin reports a 30% increase in business tied to destabilization.
Ashley Oakland's Family Seeks Justice. Deb Cochran shares her belief that Ashley knew her killer, reflecting on the tragedy.
New Developments in Ashley's Case. Kristin Elizabeth Ramsey arrested for the murder of Ashley Oakland after years of investigation.
Community Rumors Spark Investigation. Rumors within the community led to the investigation of Ashley Oakland's murder.
The Arrest of Kristen Ramsey. Kristen Ramsey has been arrested and charged with first-degree murder in Ashley Oakland's case.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

You can't imagine the reward.

A poignant reminder of the impact of adoption.

0:40WatchApr 1, 2026

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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