The Barbie Doll Killer /// Part 2 /// 654 | Forensic Files

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crime [Music] but we knew that it wasn't we knew that Rosie wouldn't just climb out of the
window at that late of night and just leave and go herself in the river cuz we know she wouldn't do that Rosie tapia's
sister and family never believed her drowning was accidental her mother discovered Rosie missing just before
6:00 a.m. Sunday the window of her bedroom open screen removed now autopsy results reveal Rosie was probably
sexually assaulted before drowning in the Jordan River Canal where her body was discovered by a jogger it's just so
sad because somebody could be so sick to take a baby from her room from her security and do such a rotten thing to
her what are we supposed to do keep our kids locked up our windows locked our doors
locked put bars on our window to keep our kids from being stolen and and tossed in a river they're following this
up um with additional um statements and interviews of the victims and also Witnesses
because uh it's uh it's becoming a more a larger investigation than maybe it was
initially one of the Avenues under investigation reports that a man was seen hanging around the apartment
playground a man who carried Rosie home Saturday after she fell off the slide she said that guy was sitting on one the
benches just watching the kids and why would a guy just watch kids if he didn't have no
kids he's is's probably seeing who he's going to hit [Music] next none of the kids are safe you know
until they find this person who did this families who live here are now living in
fear after the abduction sexual assault and murder of six-year-old Rosie Topia relatives and neighbors are now taking
no Chances with their own children I let my kids run around here and I want this
guy caught because I'm scared that it might happen to my son or my daughter or my other son Cara Hansen's daughter was
nearly abducted about a year ago so what kind of precautions are you taking with
your children just sitting outside with them while they play um making them come
in when I go in just not letting them play outside by themselves around 8:00 p.m. authorities
brought in a team of blood hounds to try and track down where Rosie went into the
canal police suspect the child knew her abductor and right now there are a few suspects but very little to go on a
neighbor who lived two floor above Rosie's window reported hearing a scream yesterday morning and other neighbors
say a strange man had brought the girl home from this playground Saturday night after she fell I don't believe it's
somebody we know um hopefully it's not because it'd be even more devastated to know that Rosie's death comes one week
after this woman's daughter was abducted and raped from the same apartment complex this woman says the property
managers told her to keep it quiet oh now right now the our main concern is our security if we're going to have to
leave here I think there should be better either either better security or more security security is now everyone's
concern but for Rosie's family the priority is getting the killer in custody for somebody to do this he had
to have a sick mind very sick mind to do something like this to a six-year-old girl what began as a tragic drowning is
now being called a murder here's what we know little Rosie was discovered missing
just before 6:00 a.m. yesterday police say her bedroom window was open and the screen removed a jogger discovered her
body in the Jordan River canal and an autopsy performed today indicates Rosie had been sexually assaulted before
drowning in the [Music] river we are still investigating the still unsolved homicide of 6-year-old Rosie
Topia it's amazing to me Captain that all of these years later this case is still unsolved but as we said yesterday
there is some meat on the bone so let's go through some of the DNA evidence the suspects that are involved here as well
well as our offender profile now a quick recap of the case we have our victim's mother who checks in on Rosie at 2:30
a.m. now she is sleeping in her bedroom with her 4-year-old sister and 4-year-old brother by 5:45 a.m. Rosie
was missing from her bedroom this is discovered by her mother the bedroom window was open the screen was removed
and the girl is missing the police were immediately notified and a search was initiated by approximately 10 a.m. the
victim's body was located by a man who was out walking his dog the body was floating in the Surplus Canal about a
block from the apartment where she was taken the autopsy revealed that Rosie had been sexually assaulted this is an
open and active case and the Salt Lake City police department is seeking in information in this case one thing that
I found a little strange here Captain when reviewing the information back from 1995 was that Salt Lake City was
experiencing something that the rest of the country really was not so the serious crime rate and when we say
serious crimes we're ref referring to things like murder rape burglaries violent crimes things like that the
serious crime rate fell nationally for consecutive years in a row from 1991 to 1995 in fact dropping 2% Nationwide from
1994 to 1995 but the opposite of that was Salt Lake City Salt Lake City at the time
ranked third amongst large cities in the US for an increase in serious crime in fact the crime rate in Salt Lake City
itself climbed a whopping 16.4% so so while Nationwide we are experiencing dropping rates Salt Lake
City at this time was was experiencing something completely different Rising rates and Rising significantly probably
due to high sodium diets well let's dive into the timeline of the investigation and that will lead us to some suspects
along the way days after the funeral service for little Rosy Topia we have a Barbie doll that was found left at her
grave site this Barbie doll was collected by her mother her mother collected several
items that were left at the grave site and it's not uncommon for things to be left in Memorial to victims or even to
loved ones that pass from natural causes and Rosie's case you had your typical things like pictures grievance
cards candles stuffed animals things of that nature that were left at the grave site but one item in particular that was
of particular interest to Rosie's mother was this Barbie doll that was left at the grave site now a bunch of these
items that were left at Rosie's grave site the mother the family collected them and maintain these items for many
years to come the Barbie doll that was collected by her mother will actually become part of this
investigation decades later that's going to lead us to 20 2 captain in November of 2002 an unknown person left a rock on
Rosie tapia's grave with a note written on it now we do not know what that note says but we what we do know is the Salt
Lake City police dep department has publicly announced this event as well as that they are seeking the person that
left the rock that left the note that wrote the note they want to speak to this individual now that was 20 years
ago that that rock was left on the grave site we don't have any report indicating
that that person ever came forward or that they were ever able to locate the individual or if they were able if they
were able to locate or identify the individual if they spoke to them so we don't know what has come of that piece
of information but what's interesting to me is years later decades later they decide this Barbie doll that was left at
the grave site is important to the investigation and back in 2002 they knew that this rock with the
note left on it was important to the investigation and made that clear to the public at some point seeking this
individual so is there a connection between the Barbie doll and The Rock it's difficult to sit here and say we
don't know the information that was left in that note but what it does do because
initially when I hear about the this Barbie doll and being a big deal and then we're going to have it tested and
all that stuff I go well it could be a nothing Burger because people leave stuff all the time and is it possible
that somebody brings their daughter to leave some flowers at the grave site and the daughter has a toy with them and
decides well I'm going to leave this toy for her but what we do have with this rock and this note is that obviously
somebody's trying to communicate with their family or LA enforcement through that grave site so
it puts a little bit more uh value or more it puts it as a higher probability that maybe somebody was trying to make a
statement by leaving some kind of doll at the grave site I kind of Leap Frog something on accident here in our
timeline so I want to make sure that I include this now before we get too far along good job dumbass but there was a
lead that they were trying to follow up on early on in this investigation and I want to make sure that we include this
Captain because we don't know if this information could be paired with something else in the timeline or a
suspect in this timeline so the lead that they were working on early in the investigation was what they were
referring to as an elusive truck this was a truck they were trying to find they were trying to identify this truck
trying to find the owner of this vehicle this elusive truck we don't get much in
the way of a description other than something that could be a very key identifier on the truck was the truck
had a mountain fuel logo on it and this was spotted by multiple individuals in the Heartland apartments complex where
Rosie lived Mountain fuel records indicate that no employee visited the complex in the day
prior to Rosie's death and the truck is described as old so the detectives have come forward
and they said we're looking for this truck it's described as an older model truck we've checked the
records of mountain fuel they have no employees in the area in the days surrounding the murder we think that
maybe this vehicle had been sold at one point and somebody else is now driving this truck around so back to our
timeline this will take us up to 2012 and we are getting this information from Jensen private
investigations.com they have a brief article on there that states that just days after an arrest was made in another
murder case unfortunately this was the murder of Sierra newold this arrest led to the Tapia
family wondering if the man accused of murdering Sierra if this could possibly be linked to their daughter's murder
that took place 17 years prior the details of this are eerily similar so in both cases we have an abduction and then
a murder when comparing Rosie tapia's case to Sierra nal's case both girls were taken from their homes both were
sexually assaulted and then drowned in a Jordan Canal it's strange but also super
creepy when these cases sound it sounds like the same case just a different victim's name we talked about the
Surplus Canal where Rosie Topia was found well unfortunately this other girl who was similar and age similar victim
type to Rosie unfortunately experienced a very similar situation we have Sierra newold
where the perpetrator of that crime entered the home and exited the home through a sliding glass door and then of
course we have Rosie's case where the perpetrator came in through the window it appears likely that the offender in
Rosie's case exited the home the same way that they entered the home I would like to get a little bit further
confirmation on that because I think when we talk about a basement apartment Captain you can start to see the
complexities right when trying to remove a child or remove a victim in that manner right now you've got to climb
back up and and get through that window with your victim some people have wondered if there might be two persons
involved in Rosie's case that would certainly make it easier to transport the victim yeah easier to transport the
victim but also easier to maintain control of the victim well the man that was arrested in the other case was Terry
black he was arrested for multiple crimes but one of them was the murder of Sierra newold and the special
investigator Jason Jensen is interviewed here and goes on to tell us a little bit about black
saying that they looked into Black's criminal record which spans throughout four states Jensen investigations was
able to determine that yes in fact this Terry black was living in the state of Utah when Rosie was killed they go on to
say that he was a Salt Lake County resident at that time and they want to be clear here saying so you can't rule
him in you can't just automatically rule him in but you also cannot rule him out
in Rosie's case until we have some more information yeah because one we could test the DNA if we have a full sample
size of that DNA but also this could be a serial killer with the same M Mo like we said the crimes are identical with
just different Vic names sadly in this same article here Captain we have Len Topia Rosie's mother who has been
upfront and Center has been the face of this investigation since day one and kudos to her for reminding everybody
about this case because again I didn't see a great deal of coverage locally when this first case broke and really it
wasn't until these other organizations stepped in that you start to see all of these stories coming out and it now goes
on to become a national story and today 20 23 we have a ton of information and a
ton of stories about Rosie's case on the Internet thanks to the help of these other entities now Len Topia in this
article is quoted as saying I'm just hoping I find out before I go she's referencing finding out who killed her
daughter and she adds I will be up in heaven with her but I still won't know who took her well now this is going to
bring us to 2018 and I'm going to read some portions of this article that came out this is
when we get informed about this Barbie doll that was left years ago at Little Rosie tapia's grave site this is from
2018 People magazine the headline could a Barbie doll hold the clue to solving a 23e y
old cold case they go on to say the mother of a murdered child discovered a Barbie doll at her grave site 23 years
ago and kept it in a glass case it has been more than 20 years since six-year-old Rosie Tapia was kidnapped
from her Salt Lake City Home assaulted and killed her body was found in a canal off of the Jordan River several hours
after her disappearance Now 23 years later the Utah Cold Case coalition is asking the public for any tips related
to a Barbie doll which was found on top of the girl's grave shortly after she died in 1995 quote Rosie's mother went
back to her grave regularly she went back and found this doll there which was a bit unusual and kept it in a glass
case this whole time in September of 2017 we should point out here that this Utah Cold Case Coalition is not a law
enforcement entity okay they are victim Advocates they assist victims families in trying to further the investigations
keep the investigations in the spotlight in the media and help raise money and resources to possibly finally solve some
of these cases so this is where you see from a media standpoint anyway this case
take a 180 degree turn from where there's not a whole lot being reported on Rosie's case until you get Jensen
investigations until you get the Utah Cold Case Coalition involved and they've really helped to climb to the mountain
tops and keep shouting and shouting and shouting from the mountain tops about this case since then yeah but we also
all know how it works when there's a case take the Brian schaer case guy walks into a bar he's seen on camera
never seen on camera leaving the bar is he inside the outside there's like a little creepy factor that Sparks our
human interest and so I think in this case when you start going well there's this creepy man that returned her home
returned Rosie home the day that she was kidnapped that's that kind of Sparks your interest and then when you find out
that there's this Barbie doll that might have some significance and then you can
start picturing your mind's eye This creepy Barbie doll that's found at the grave site I think it really Sparks our
human interest to go I I want to know more about this case so in September of 2017 the Coalition approached the Salt
Lake City Police Department with that Barbie doll and they asked them to test it for DNA but unfortunately they say
they basically did not get a response or we can assume they at least did not get
the response that they wanted since then the Coalition decided to move forward on
testing the doll without assistance from law enforcement they go on to say that there will be two phases in the test the
first phase extracts the DNA that they're hoping to find and the second which is the more costly portion
identifies the DNA so this article comes out in 2018 so when they say last year they're
referring to 2017 they say that the group was able to pay to get the DNA extracted from the
doll which did include male DNA the group believes that the doll known as a pretty hearts Barbie could be a valuable
clue in the case and they are hoping someone will come forward with any information on who may have left it
there quote we thought we'd give the public a chance to say I left that there or hey that's my doll it went missing
now I know where it is so what they're saying here Captain is they've taken on this without the assistance of law
enforcement it's a two-phase process in 2018 they're saying we've already paid for phase one phase two is the much more
costly much more expensive part of the investigation right we're making an announcement publicly this came out in
People magazine it was on the internet it was it was in every newspaper that you can think of and they're saying we
just want somebody to come forward let us know if you left the Barbie doll there because if somebody comes forward
and we're like we can prove that they had nothing to do with the case well we can move on and we don't have to waste
resources and money on identifying who left it there what's interesting to me Captain was the way that this Barbie
doll is described it was described as used okay so I wanted to know what used meant right I'm assuming it's not in its
Packaging well all my toys all my toys growing up were used but take it a step further I was told by somebody very
close to the case that it it's described as used because it was clear that it it
was not only not in its packaging this was a Barbie doll that was likely sold the year prior to her murder and had
obvious signs of wear and tear that it was played with this could be looked at as a creep fact could be looked at
simply as maybe a child did this but there were some chew marks on the feet of the Barbie doll yeah I think a lot of
this to me just points to the idea that a child is there their parents are showing their condolences and then the
child leaves the Barbie and look maybe the child doesn't remember leaving the Barbie maybe the parents don't remember
the child leaving the Barbie as said they were able to determine they were able to to ex ract some male DNA or DNA
that included male DNA from the doll now what we do know is we sit here five years later after this article came out
five years after they asked someone to come forward claim to have left the doll or know who left the doll yeah and
nobody's come forward so that means one of three things there there's only three
possible outcomes with that a a the person that left the doll is completely innocent and just never heard the public
cry for information right B the person is who left it wants to remain anonymous for any number of
reasons a lot of those reasons I would say would be suspicious or three you mean c keep in
mind this doll was left in 1995 people think you're a genius given the victim's age it wouldn't be out of the realm of
possibility that a friend or a loved one or even just somebody being sympathetic
from afar from watching on TV or from the neighborhood maybe another young person close and age to Rosie left the
doll there and now fast forward to 2018 all those years later they were just so young they don't recall leaving
the Barbie doll at the gravite right so to me there's only three reasons why somebody wouldn't come forward one of
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us cheers everybody cheers sippy sippy on your cup look I I hate to poo poo on the parade but I'm not so concerned with
this Barbie doll as I'm concerned with this man that brings her Rosie back to the apartment after she has an accident
on the playground yes air quotes accident on the playground got kicked in the back because there's
the other side of that debate is that it never happened that that the person brought Rosie back but she was not hurt
wasn't crying was not in need of assistance and this person might have just been looking for some kind of
information to to later use well because initially everybody in the apartment complex goes hey we know who this guy is
he doesn't have any kids he sits at the park he plays guitar for the kids he's kind of a strange weirdo so if he's at
the park multiple times then probably pretty likely that he knows who Rosie is it's probably pretty likely he knows
where her apartment is but it's very strange to be a guy playing guitar at the park for kids uh and watching kids
when you don't have any of your own so here this becomes a big problem for the investigation and from the Salt Lake
City Police Department's investigation from that side early on in the investigation they said that they had
identified this man and for clarity purposes we're going to call this man the Good Samaritan right the guy that's
what he's been referred to in multiple Stories the guy that brought Rosie home to her apartment that night said that
she was hurt on the playground they say that they identified him as a man who had a son that was a divorce a so he had
his son part-time right and he played guitar at the playground and often his son was there with him so you have and
you heard it in our sound clip leading into today's storytelling of the case that people were suspicious of people in
the park or people at the playground why would a man be sitting there by himself
why would he be there without a child old flicky flicky pedo people were suspicious of that and rightfully so
well police say we moved on from the Good Samaritan because we identified him as a man who I believe he was a truck
driver or worked out of town for a portion of his schedule he's a divorce a with his with his son has his
son part-time lives in the apartment complex and was known to play the guitar at the playground by the way based off
of his work records they show that he was out of town when Rosie was abducted and killed the problem with that then
becomes Guitar Man and the Good Samaritan cannot be the same person we again we don't have the details did he
leave on a trucking route at midnight right and so then we know that from from the time period that she was abducted
that he wouldn't have been around but he could have been able to bring her back to the apartment earlier that day I like
you said I think it's it's very unclear if this good Samaran and this this uh divorce a truck driver if
they're the same person right is Guitar Man and the Good Samaritan the same person there have been people that have
come forward and said no we know who the guitar guy is just like the police says
and we are saying that's not the same person so then in retrospect they go back and they look and unfortunately
even though they said they were able to move on from the Good Samaritan very much like a case that we very recently
reviewed there's no documents backing any of that up they can't say who spoke to this man there's no documents backing
it up showing that that they positively identified the Good Samaritan man so many are pointing out a problem with
that having moved on from the Good Samaritan too quickly that maybe maybe they misidentified him and that those
two individuals are not one and the same but what we do have is Rosie's sister answered the door and talked to this man
the problem is he's wearing a hat he's in glasses he's almost like Incognito mhm and then when they release a sketch
of this individual he looks like an alien human from Men In Black right right well difficult to say he he could
be a an alien in Disguise or he could be the man in Black right it's a it's a Men
In Black type situation the guy the the description is basically take a face and
put big sunglasses and a hat on it and then your your sketch that you get yeah in the face before we move on too far
from the Barbie doll though Captain I do want to point out that the um a little too obsessed with dolls of all the
things that they paid for again nobody ever came forward taking credit for leaving the Barbie doll we should point
out a couple of things here that the Coalition the Cold Case Coalition has pointed out saying that they have
received numerous calls about Barbie dolls left at grav for other murdered girls including some in other states and
they go on to say that they don't know if there is any possible link between any of the cases but they do say the
time frames we've been contacted on are fairly close together although in different states could it be the same
person I don't know could it be a certain type of Predator I don't know could it also be totally innocent
possibly well no and think about uh True Detective the One season there was these
handmade woven uh dolls that were given to these victims so when they go to investigate these murder crimes and they
go look through uh the rooms of the victims they find these handmade dolls to me that
that would be a link but uh a Barbie doll is such a common item a lot of these people that are showing respect to
these victims by leaving flowers or just visiting the grave site if they have a child with
them I could totally see a child going well I'm going to donate my doll and I could also see that being a a situation
with Rosie's case where the parent might not have even known that their daughter
did that and look I have pretty good memories of of things I've done and you'd think that this would also be a
memory that would stick out to you going to go visit a a grave when you're a little kid but I have friends of mine
that they can't remember [ __ ] from when they're a kid in 2019 the Utah Cold Case
Coalition released a sketch of a possible suspect in Rosie tapia's murder according to a press release the sketch
is based on a neighbor's recollection the neighbor lived in the same apartment complex where the 6-year-old lived when
she was abducted and murdered the neighbor claims that he was early saw a teenager coming from the same direction
as the canal where she was later found at first as the captain pointed out yesterday this neighbor thought that the
teen was wearing pants of two different colors but then realized the pants were wet this is interesting this is the lead
in the sketch that we talked about yesterday this is the one that comes out but it doesn't come out until
2019 now some of these reports state that this this neighbor cuz you're sitting here going well why would this
individual wait so long to tell anybody about this this neighbor person I don't know if it's a she or he but they claim
that they did give this information to the Salt Lake City Police Department back in
1995 but there was little to no followup on it at all the witness described this
teenager as a 16 to 17-year-old boy who is Hispanic with a slight build and a narrow face with high cheekbones he says
that he was seen wearing denim jeans a white shirt and a medium length gold chain baller now what's interesting is
that police get this sketch and they hold on to it for a period of time I believe it was like two
months yeah the reason why this sketch is so important I've looked at this in comparison to the Good Samaritan sketch
the man that returned Rosie right there's not the Good Samaritan sketch is not descriptive enough really to compare
it to anything I've heard and read people say that the sketches look like they could be the same person frankly I
mean I don't think it's you can compare anything to the Good Samaritan sketch no
because he looks like undercover alien but no I think this is actually the the biggest and best lead that we have and
it and sucks that it took so long to one compile the sketch and then to release the sketch because again I'm going to go
back to the initial investigation this becomes very difficult for law enforcement because you have basically a
small town in this apartment complex so you would see a lot of individuals so to jog your memory and go
oh yeah there was a a teenage boy that would walk around the complex to dra jog your me
memory 10 15 years later to try to identify somebody that you might have only seen a few times that if this
sketch was released two weeks after the murders I think you'd have a lot of people coming forward and saying well
that looks like Ricky or that looks like Steve or that looks like whoever it's so
difficult and we've talked about this before we've talked to plenty of detectives that say time is everything
we bring it up all the time time is the killer time is the killer of evidence time is the killer of solving these
cases and the detectives would tell you if early on in the investigation had we just spoke to this person I think the
outcome would have been different had we just found this piece of the puzzle early in the investigation instead of
all these years later I think that the outcome would be different I agree with you here Captain I think that this is
that piece of the puzzle this is that person that had they just had this information and maybe they did again
this person is saying that I gave this information we don't know it's difficult to say we can only base it off of the
reports we are seeing but had they had this information back in 1995 maybe we're not sitting here talking about an
unsolved homicide and the reason why I state that is because this 2019 sketch of wet pants man may be the most and
best tip that they've got all along and this is going to be the best way of crowdsourcing this case so there's some
backstory that comes along with this composite sketch and that is that when the composite sketch was released by the
police this man who is reported his name is Dan contacts the police department and says that sketch looks similar to a
friend of mine he was a friend of mine back in 1995 and he's still somebody that I stay in touch with to this day
right now we're no longer close but we were back in '95 and he says what's even more strange
about the sketch is that prior to it being released his friend had called him and said hey I
heard that they're putting together a sketch of somebody that they think is a suspect in the rosie Topia case and this
Dan individual says yes that's what I've heard as well and the friend of Dan says
to Dan wouldn't it be funny if the sketch looks like one of us well I'm sure they probably shared a laugh and it
seems like a dumb statement I don't know why any of that would be funny when we're talking about the murder of a
six-year-old but right Dan calls police and says look my friend called me before
the sketch came out and said wouldn't it be funny if it looks like one of us now
the sketch comes out I think it looks like my friend right the one that thought it would be so hilarious well
guess guess I'm guessing he didn't find it to be too funny when it does come out
and it looks like him there is some reports out there that uh this individual states that I've seen the
sketch it does not look like me in that person's opinion this person to their credit did agree to a DNA swab and so
did the Dan individual agreed to a DNA swab I know that the unnamed individual the friend that they did in fact collect
his DNA well one of the things that we have or one of the things I've seen reported is that that Rosie at least put
up some kind of struggle and so they believe that they could get some DNA from underneath her fingernails I've
referenced once or twice that we spoke to somebody very close to the case and I was not aware at the time when speaking
to this individual that this unnamed person the friend of Dan had wet pants what's that the guy that could be Mr wet
pants possibly could be Mr wet pants I did not know that this friend of Dan had agreed to a DNA swap yeah I didn't see
that reported but this is one of those weird scenarios where you were actually able to talk to an individual that's
really close to this case so some of the stuff that you're putting out in this episode I'm hearing for the first time
as well so what happened is this uh and I'm going to go through our interaction together because I did not know this in
advance my reaction to him telling me this information was I said look I've reviewed I'm no detective but I've
reviewed a lot of homicide cases here in the garage with the captain and it's my
experience that guilty people don't so willingly offer up their DNA and he said to me that's exactly right Nick but keep
in mind when he offered up his DNA there was a big question mark out there whether DNA existed as evidence in this
case at all right right in fact there was police on record more than one occasion stating that they did not have
DNA so I said to him either that's some great strategy by the police to not release that they have DNA or there's
something weird with the DNA evidence yeah well like we said one of the Destroyers of evidence is time but
also water I think that's why you see some of these cases even if there are these brutal murders but the victim is
found in water it it becomes way more difficult for law enforcement to put together the pieces of the puzzle to
solve the case now let's stay in the year of 2019 here as we continue on our timeline
because this directly impacts what we were just talking about in 2019 new details about the case were
released by the Salt Lake City police department but this was done in an episode by Investigation Discovery
Network the pazon on the case uh pazan pazon on the case with pazan and the episode about
Rosie tapia's murder was titled she's gone for the first time in Rosie's case the case had gone National on on a big
national scale here Beyond even what the national scale that it hit in 2018 again I want to point out all the
good work that the G investigations have done and the Cold Case Coalition because
they're the entities that made this a national story when this case did not get a whole lot of local media coverage
they changed that 180 degrees once they stepped in so and they've worked directly with the Topia family on this
case all along don't dismiss the power of pazon well don't dismiss the power of these Victim advoc Advocacy programs
these um nonprofit organizations that exist what was shocking to Rosie's mother when she
watched the pazon case and the Topia family was participating in the making of that episode but when she watched it
she for the very first time says that she learned that they did have DNA in her daughter's case says quote I did not
know that they had DNA from her fingernail I asked them a long time ago if they had
DNA from her fingernails and they told me they didn't have any end quote now you'd think you're being cooperative
with this production company you would think that well first of all you'd think one we're going to disclose all the
information to you before we release it to the public but also maybe that we're going to let you watch watch it before
it comes out let you watch the documentary early before the information comes out to the public the if you're
going to play the numbers here the numbers would tell you the statistics would tell you that the overwhelming
majority of the time this kind of offender is known to the family knows the family or knows the victim right my
suspicion here is if in fact they had good DNA evidence and that's what I think we need to hone in on here in a
second if in fact they had good DNA evidence if there's a chance that they thought
that the perpetrator may be known to the family they may have withheld this information from the family as well as
part of their investigation right which which does make some sense according to police statements on the pazon episode
Salt Lake City police said that they have more than 60 samples from different persons in this case now it's also been
reported that they could not enter or compare the DNA that they found in Rosie's case to DNA on codus that it did
not meet the criteria for being able to upload it or compare it to the coda database yeah most likely meaning it
doesn't have enough markers correct which the point I was going to make that I had a little brain fart earlier I
heard it it smells we have a ey witness that is saying that this Mr wet pants is
a late teenager this is a horrific crime this is the type of crime that even if this is his first crime this is probably
a murderer that's going to continue on the path of being a horrific murderer so you would think at some
point he would either get caught for this or like you said get caught in a home and then get charged
with break in entering but it all depends on where he was arrested did they collect DNA and like you said if
there's not enough markers then you can't even compare that DNA but it wouldn't surprise me if this
individual was in prison or has been in prison for another crime or attempting another crime like this so here's what I
can tell you here's what I've learned very recent it to us Colonel the DNA stuff let's set that
aside for a minute so we know that the DNA was collected from the friend of Dan Dan not only tells police this guy
my old friend resembles the sketch that you're now putting out but he also said this weird statement to me a month or so
before the sketch came out wouldn't it be funny if it looked like one of us now we have this
situation where we learn a little bit about this friend from Dan now Dan is very important and could be key to this
investigation for a couple of reasons one he's saying that my friend Dan was young of course roughly
17 18ish let's say around the time of Rosy's murder his friend would have been 16 at the time so that fits with the
sketch of wet pants man who he also Dan is saying this man looks like Dan at one
time dated Amelia the older daughter the 18-year-old daughter that was watching the kids that night and as the captain
had talked about on our last episode The ex-boyfriend Dan was an ex-boyfriend he
was somebody who had gone into the Tapia apartment on more than one occasion to meet with his girlfriend Amelia and when
he did he would do that via that same window that the offender came in and abducted Rosie Topia but it even gets
more deep gets more deep because he says his friend was aware that he would use this window to climb in and out of the
Topia home right this guy has intimate knowledge of the crime scene intimate knowledge of the
family he looks like the sketch and it's been pointed out to me by the person close to the investigation
that this individual may have only given his DNA swab willingly voluntarily because he may have been led to believe
or was under the assumption at the time that they didn't have DNA evidence in Rosie tapia's case right or look maybe
he's also aware that they do have DNA but it's just partial and so maybe he is one of these narcissists that's like hey
well try your luck with this partial DNA not every criminal is so smart either most of the time that it's the opposite
and maybe he just felt pressured enough that he submitted the DNA just to get them off
of his back right and crossed his fingers and hope that he would get lucky what's difficult though is now we sit
here a couple years later and where it sits where the case sits is there is a $100,000 reward in the rosie Topia case
that money is not meant for a witness to come forward after all of these years who saw something and just forgot it and
didn't and decided not to come forward when you put together a substantial reward like that
that tells me that the people putting together the reward believe that there are other people that are aware of what
this person did this money is a nudge this money is encouragement to turn on that individual that you may have been
protecting out of fear for all of these years well no and I would bet money if this douchebag is saying things to his
friend Dan oh would it be funny if we looked like the sketch and Dan is obviously close to the victim in in the
sense that he dated the older sibling so he knows the family so if he's making weird
statements to somebody that knows the family knows probably a little bit about the investigation probably
knows a little bit about the crime what other weird comments has he made to other individuals maybe at a bar when he
gets drunk maybe at a party what other weird statements has he made to other people that weren't connected
to the family and weren't connected to the crime so as far as the DNA goes what we've been told where the kiss case sits
now is the DNA collected from the victim is being sent off for genealogy detection work that the DNA collected
from the Barbie doll is being sent off by the private entity for Gene neology detection work
those statements came out a while ago so if there's been any movement or advancement and and guess what I have
personal experience and can tell you those are not fast investigations the genealogy stuff can
take 6 weeks 6 months 18 months 2 years it can be a long and difficult process and you're not always guaranteed results
so we don't know exactly where that stands other than we've been told it's been sent off in both cases by two
different entities yeah or sometimes they get results back that then take more leg work to connect the dots the
thing is with the DNA that's collected from the victim and we've seen this in plenty of other cases too Captain you
can usually use those if it does not have enough markers to fit the criteria for
codus it likely has enough markers that you can rule some people out from those 60 that you've collected and you can
keep some people in but you can't conclusively link it to one individual now we talked about early on how there
were statements given by police that yes the FBI is working to put together a profile on the offender but then they've
never made that profile if it exist public so in those cases when able and I think we can he Captain I like to do
what some people think is very arrogant of me but guess what you go get your own
show and you can do what you want on your show this is our show so I got 50% of the say wow I like to put together
our own biged I like to put together our own profile here for you in the garage and I'm going to use some expert
information to piece that together I'll start it off with the lesser of the experts that would be yours truly the
colonel now it's been my experience in the cases that we've reviewed that are similar to Rosie's case that we are
usually talking about a younger offender and it's not terribly uncommon in fact the numbers would suggest that it is
more common that the offender in this type of case has a similar or the same ethnic background as the victim so what
I'm saying here is when you can see and review this case on a map the first thing that jumps off the page is the
person that abducted K and placed the body and left the body in that Canal did not need any means of transportation
other than their own two legs to commit this crime sometimes that's an indicator
that your offender is either too young to drive or of a younger age and does not possess a vehicle of their own now
while we don't have the FBI profile to talk about we do have a clinical psychologist Steve Kramer who evaluates
sex offenders for the Utah State Prison System and back in 1995 he gave the following information saying that the
Killer is a quote very impulsive person one who does the first thing that comes into his head without thinking of the
consequences right the statement goes on to say most pedophiles are smooth operators who control their environment
to gain access to Children he may marry a single mother to get at her kids or befriend children at a playground Rosy's
killer is different from this he can't even initiate a conversation he's probably a withdrawn loner type of
person this was a real cowardly act should I get my profile now I spent hours and hours on my profile well I
would like to continue along with some information from Kenneth lanning's book and we know that Kenneth Lanning was
involved he was the special agent from the FBI that was involved early on in this investigation and I think this
gives us a possibly more complete profile picture of our offender from page 84 of his book love bombs and
molesters he states that most child molesters do not abduct their victims and most offenders who do abduct their
victims do not kill them statistics bear this out then if you fast forward to page4 Kenneth Lanning learned from BSU
research that the primary but not the only reason some child molesters use violence and abduction to control their
victims was that they lacked the interpersonal skills to do otherwise to put it rather simply here captain please
do what Lanning is stating after his years of expertise in his years in in working on these types of
crimes is that the persons that abduct and kill typically are doing this because they do not groom they do not
have the ability to to groom and victimize the victim over a period of time they're somebody that lacks those
skills what's interesting is cross referencing that with what Steve Kramer the clinical psychologist for Utah State
Prison System back in 95 said that this killer is very impulsive person he does the first thing that comes into his head
without thinking of the consequences and to me this all goes in line with our composite sketch of wet pants man who
was described as 16 to 17 and goes along with the experiences that we've seen when reviewing these cases here on True
Crime garage that this type of case fits the profile of a younger offender of a local offender likely lived in the
complex or very near the complex and likely did not possess the ability to drive a vehicle legally or have an
actual vehicle we're not just making this stuff up look at the close proximity from where the victim was
found to where she was abducted back in 1995 yeah and the profile I worked on for hours if not days was this
individual is a giant piece of [ __ ] and I'm convinced I there's just a gut feeling of mine that that this horrible
individual has made weird comments about this case such as I might look like the
sketch wouldn't that be funny those are weird comments so if you have heard somebody that has made weird comments
about this case turn their name into law enforcement and let them do the due diligence to rule them in or out unless
this individual was picked up for a burglary or something else shortly after 95 I think what we're probably dealing
with here like you said Captain somebody knows something that's 100% because a person that carries out this level of
violence a person that carries out this level of victimization is incapable of controlling themselves they will
have and victimize in the future likely in domestic situations where they will add violence bring violence into their
home against their spouse their children other loved ones so somebody out there very likely knows something remember
there is a reward for up to $100,000 in Rosy Topia case someone somewhere has information that can help solve this
homicide no fact is insignificant no details too small if you have any information please call 385 258
3313 that number is answered by representatives of the family and not law enforcement or you can email who
killed Rosie gmail.com again this is monitored by Family [Music] Representatives
[Music] want to thank you guys so much for joining us here in the garage and this
would be a great example of a case that could be shared on social media to spread the word get people talking and
maybe we could make a difference Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners we do Captain
and very fittingly so our recommended reading for this week is Lou and John Benet a legendary Lawman's quest to
solve a child Beauty Queen's Murder by John Wesley Anderson John Wesley Anderson himself is a former homicide
detective turned author after retiring from a 30-year law enforcement career and he was good friends with Lou Smith
and this book is about Lou Smith's investigation into the still surprisingly so still unsolved homicide
side of Little John Benet ramsy make sure you check out Lou and John Benet by John Wesley Anderson you can find that
recommendation and many more on our recommended page on our website true Crim garage.com and if you want to join
us live make sure you get a ticket at true Crim garage.com click on the Live Events link and that's how you can get a
ticket hope to see you there and until next week be good be kind and don't litter
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The Barbie Doll Killer /// Part 2 /// 654

Part 2 of 2

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In the middle of the night someone took little Rosie Tapia from her bedroom. Hours later her body was found nearby. Days after the funeral services someone left a Barbie Doll on the girl’s grave. Could this doll hold clues to finding her killer? Rosie’s case is still open and unsolved. The person(s) responsible needs to be held accountable so that this will not happen to another family. There is a substantial reward offered in this case. If you have any information please call 1-385-258-3313 or email whokilledrosie@gmail.com - This phone line and email address are answered and monitored by representatives of Rosie’s family, and not law enforcement. No detail is too small. No fact is insignificant. Someone, somewhere has information that can help solve this crime.

Beer of the Week - Pavement Double India Pale Ale from Foam Brewers

Garage Grade - 4 and a quarter bottle caps out of 5

Recommended Reading - Lou and Jonbenet; a legendary lawman’s quest to solve a child beauty queen’s murder by John Wesley Anderson

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Brief Summary

The episode covers the unsolved murder of Rosie Tapia and ongoing investigations into her abduction and death.

Key points

The Tragic Case of Rosie Tapia. Six-year-old Rosie Tapia was abducted and found dead, leading to a long investigation.
Barbie Doll Mystery. A Barbie doll left at Rosie's grave may hold clues to her murder.
Coalition's DNA Testing Efforts. The Coalition tests a Barbie doll for DNA, hoping it leads to new clues in a case.
The Good Samaritan Mystery. A man known as the Good Samaritan returns Rosie home, but his identity raises suspicions.
Sketch of a Possible Suspect. A neighbor's recollection leads to a sketch of a potential suspect in Rosie's murder.
The Power of Advocacy. Victim advocacy programs play a crucial role in bringing attention to cold cases.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's just so sad because somebody could be so sick.

Discussion about the tragic case of Rosie Tapia.

4:54WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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