Arthur Shawcross /// The Shawcross Letters /// Part 2 | Forensic Files

foreign [Music] foreign foreign garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host
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[Music] foreign [Music] [Music] is taken from letters to John Paul Faye from Arthur shawcross written behind
Prison Walls hello John you can call me art if you want the stationary you chose is quite
good reminds me of someone I knew one time tied up blindfolded and gagged is good
her legs would not be tied wide open I like blondes brunettes redheads or whatever
but I am choosy in the type I crave but at times I lose control and it's as if I made a snuff film
you forgot to mention a saw or two my specialty is the key hole saw it's what I used on three victims
then you have the jigsaw real Handy OJ didn't kill Nicole his friend did think about it
he also had a white Bronco it's very strange it was gotten rid of right away so you tell me
something worth looking into John if you want a woman for the winter pull one of the homeless
she will like it inside all winter then in the spring Let Her Go I've been there all winter with two
women in the apartment what tastes better than pork Jeffrey Dahmer was into eating and
torturing his homosexual partners as for me I only ate certain parts quite tasty at that
don't need salt either Ed gein's last victim was just about like one of mine but not tied up mine was laying back
legs open with a silly grin on her mug John The Saul man every human no matter what color looks
the same after they're skinned you go to Southern Cal stay away from any earthquake section
AIDS lets you and I waste some morons be cool pal don't hurt anyone at least don't get caught at it
gotta go pal good day art [Music] foreign [Music] age 27 was an emaciated sex worker who
took to working the streets to support a drug habit she was last seen alive on Saturday July 8 1989 while walking along
Lyle Avenue Arthur shawcross had met her by the princess restaurant on Lake Avenue and he walked with her to the
back of the YMCA he then drove her down to the driving Park and during oral sex he grabbed her throat and strangled her
before rolling her body over the edge of the Genesee River Gorge it is reported that she was frustrated after Arthur
could not get an erection after 40 minutes it's also alleged that she threatened to tell the police that she
had seen Arthur Shaw cross with Dotsy remember she was the victim that we discussed yesterday
Anna Marie's body was found on Sunday September 11 1988 this is by Hector Maldonado while he was searching for
returnable bottles so that he could save up some money to buy cigarettes the victim was lying on her left side
curled in a semi-fetal position a pair of Calvin Klein jeans were pulled down around the ankles and turned inside out
a white tank top with red shoulder straps was wrapped around the right wrist and a clump of hair had been
ripped from the skull the eyes were missing from their sockets now just three weeks later on Saturday
July 29 1989 Dorothy Keller this was supposedly Shaw cross's friend would be his third victim now she was
different from the first two in the sense that she was not a sex worker she was a 58 year old woman she was homeless
and shawcross had met Dorothy when she worked as a waitress and a diner that he had gone to the two struck up a
friendship which had quickly turned into an affair on an afternoon this was um on his way
to fish in the river he stopped when he saw Keller to speak with her when she found out where he was
going she asked if he could take her with him and he agreed according to Shaw cross they spent the morning fishing and
making love until around midday when it started to rain now didn't she live with
him at some point I believe so there there there were a couple people that shawcross had affairs with or so he
would later claim because we have this individual here that would end up a murder victim that can't tell us
otherwise um and one thing that I think that we're going to see here with Shaw cross is
there seems to be a reason for most of these murders or at least a reason that he has made up in his mind you know
either um the the woman made fun of him or bit him or assaulted him or tried to Rob him
and therefore he lost control and decided to kill them and with Dorothy uh the interview that I saw Arthur was
saying that Dorothy lived with him and that he also paid her some weird amount like four dollars and 32 cents or
something to clean the apartment yeah he would claim that there was a couple things that sent him into a rage you
know they're they're huddling together in this crude shelter that shawcross put together while it rains out there and he
states that while they're huddling together they get into some kind of argument and it starts off with an
argument about her stealing money and then it turns into they're arguing about his relationships that he has with
rose and with Clara he claimed that she started to threaten him telling saying that she was going to tell the other
women about their affair right and this is when Arthur shawcross became angry he
picked up a small log and he beat her on the side of the head uh until he killed
her now he he hit her body under a fallen tree and then he went home her body was
found on October 21st but he later told police that at one time he had returned to the spot several months later and
removed the skull and dumped it in the river yeah and in the interview I saw they
said uh how did you you know remove the skull he said you just do you just do yeah it doesn't have that
big of an accent but yeah sounded better sounded better in my head on Friday September 29 1989 Patricia Ives this was
another Lake Avenue sex worker also known as crazy Patty she was um 25 years old at the time drug dependent a high
school dropout she did have a a baby a young child who had been placed in foster care some say that she
once was a very attractive woman that she she used to Bear more of a resemblance to the film star Julia
Roberts um but by this point because the drugs had taken their toll and she was right a
bit of a walking skeleton she had uh ragged and unkept hair and she also had needle marks from her elbows to her
fingers that's sad it was also believed that she might have had the AIDS virus now our Arthur shawcross claims that she
offered him sex for 25 when he approached the same Diner where Dorothy Keller had worked
he agreed to this and they went to a construction site while there uh and while having sex shawcross says that he
caught Ives trying to remove his wallet and pushed her hard against the ground she began to cry and he raped her and
began to strangle her until she didn't move anymore shawcross said that there were children
playing nearby and he states that I put my hand over her mouth and held her nose
she didn't struggle she didn't holler she didn't fight that he knew her and that Patty had been in the company of a
white male who was riding a bike with balloon tires there were fishing rods protruding from the Cycle's rear baskets
Patty was reported missing the following day by her pimp slash boyfriend who on the streets went by the name get get
ready for this guy okay it went by the name is the Pimp's name yes okay rat face Billy
you can't make this stuff up I'm telling you who's your boyfriend oh you know old old
rat face uh we shouldn't laugh uh pot Patty's body was found by children who were
looking for a lost baseball on Friday October 27th when they saw a foot sticking out from a pile of flattened
cardboard the corpse was clothed in black pants and a sweatshirt lying face up and a wedding ring was missing from
her finger there were no shoes or socks on the body and maggots had devoured most of the flesh
on October 23 1989 June Stott uh was 30 years old was the youngest of eight children she was homeless she apparently
heard mysterious voices in her head and had been taken to sleeping on Lyle Avenue
now she's she's different in a sense that she's not a sex worker or a drug addict this is something that you and I
have spoke about before on our little show here our little garage show that's taking care of people that have mental
health issues yeah but I mean I also think we have issues with you know trying to take care of you know the sex
workers I mean whether it's you know should be legal or shouldn't be legal I mean we have to do a better job well I
only point that out here because from everything I could gather it appears that this this young woman was simply
homeless because of of the problems she had and it wasn't due to drugs or anything of that nature that she simply
needed to be taken care of and didn't have anyone to help her with this now Shaw cross you know this is this is what
we will see time and time again from from Monsters like Shaw cross they will find somebody they will come across
somebody with uh let's say what he would determine to be a weakness and he's going going to Prey Upon that person and
make them further victimize them because he can yeah and he's going to talk her into going fishing with him which we
know is a bad thing well and when they're down by the water he's trying to talk her into having sex with with him
and she refuses and he says this is when he decided to strangle her now two days
later he returned to the body and he dragged it down into the uh there's an area there with those large Cattails uh
he dragged the body there and using a knife he cut open her body from the breastbone to the crotch he then gutted
her like a a fish using his words throwing the entrails into the river on Thursday November hold on I just want
to point out that in the interview I watched on him he claims that this attack happened and he didn't leave he
was there all day and that he actually cut her open beforehand before returning to the body right now that's what he
claims now the only reason why I bring that up is that you see a lot of times in his stories now he's either
misremembering or he's yeah and on Thursday November 23rd a man walking his dog he noticed an
ice-covered object it was a piece of carpet under which was the badly decomposed body of June Stott the corpse
was face down but lividity staining showed that she had been rolled over long after death the right leg was bent
inward at the knee elevating the buttocks and suggesting the possibility of intercourse after death with the body
the vagina was missing from the body and Arthur shawcross later said that he had
ate it yeah and wow this is a graphic show um but law enforcement are now well aware that they're looking for a serial
killer well that's kind of a unique situation I guess in the sense that that's not always the case you know
sometimes they arrest a guy for a murder and then later find out that he's guilty
of three or four or five right here here we have enough of a consistency in victims and how often they are finding
these victims that they're well aware that they're probably looking for they're at least looking for a serial
killer it's undetermined if all of these are connected to the same guy or not yeah so they actually had a couple sting
operations that they set up and having police officers go undercover and because you know a lot of these victims
were sex workers so they were trying to you know figure this out now what Arthur talks about in his interview is
that he used to hang on at Dunkin Donuts and he happened to be wearing like for whatever reason he says some very shiny
shoes and so when these officers were in there talking about this stuff that they kind
of just assumed because of his shiny shoes that he was law enforcement okay but none of them were dressed in
uniforms so they started talking about how they're trying to run the sting operation and basically by just being at
that donut shop he learned I know there's probably a bunch of cop jokes out there with the donut shop but he
learned all the decoys and so he could stay away from that right right he would he would overhear these officers talking
about their investigation at times he was even speaking with them and it he was a regular in several diners and
coffee shops and this allowed him access to those uh individuals now there were several victims in the course of
November of 1989. Marie Welch Francis Brown there's one that I do want to talk about in particular this is a story from
early November 1989 a Woman by the name of Joanne Van Nostrand told police about
a client named Mitch a guy that called himself Mitch who had paid her to play dead the man also tried to strangle her
she pulled a knife on him and fought him off this was the first Real Lead the investigators received it was the second
time that the man with the same physical description named either Mike or Mitch had been mentioned in reference to the
murders interviews with many of the Lyle Street sex workers indicate stated that
he was a regular and that he had the reputation of being violent with the women Elizabeth Gibson was also one of
his victims yes she was last seen working the streets on Lyle Avenue on Saturday November 25th her body was
found just two days later by a deer hunter walking through the woods now at this crime scene police discovered Tire
impressions in the muddy ground and they also discovered blue paint chips from where a vehicle had scraped a tree now
this paint would later be matched to Claire's blue Dodge Omni this was of course a vehicle that shawcross often
borrowed the his ninth victim or believed to be ninth victim was Darlene trippy age 32
she was last seen Alive by her sister on Friday December 15th it wasn't until after his arrest that Shah cross was
able to direct police to Darlene's frozen body I want to point out something though
here Captain we we're seeing a frequency to this aren't we I mean we're talking about multiple victims in in the same
month we're talking about what they would later say probably 11 victims is what we're looking at is is pretty much
a certainty uh probably more victims were involved in this series that were not included in his later convictions
possible yeah but we're seeing we're seeing what we've seen from time to time before you know when we discussed Ted
Bundy or the Green River Killer where you see a guy that has this capability that has murder on his mind who is
appears to almost have spiraled out of control to the point where he's murdering two three people a month well
let's talk about how old noodle dick is caught well so the investigation kind of
works like this we have most of the victims we're sex workers who worked in the red light district of lake and Lyle
Avenues the women were either strangled or beaten to death and each was disposed
of naked or partially clothed around the city and close to or in water most of the victims had debris stuffed into
their ears nose and other body cavities their clothes were often found neatly folded or close to the corpses which
ranged in decomposition from skeletal to preserved in several instances the body
exhibited signs of having been partially eaten by wild animals or cannibalized by
the killer himself recognizing these patterns the Rochester Police doubled the size of its physical
crimes unit round-the-clock surveillance by Rochester PD Tactical Unit focused attention on the red light district
where many of the victims were last seen to be alive the services of the FBI profilers were called upon to complete a
psychological profile of the serial killer the successful capture of Arthur J shawcross was due to an equal
combination of good luck in dogged police work ultimately though it was the mindset of this psychopath that
ultimately sealed his Fate One of shawcross's last victims was June Cicero she was aged 34. she was a strong
character with a drug habit she had arrived in Rochester from Brooklyn New York in 1973 and she had been well known
on the streets of Rochester where she was regarded as something of a mother figure to many of the younger women who
operated in the red light district she was a pistol yes June suddenly disappeared Without a Trace from the red
light district this was on the late evening of Sunday December 17 1989. now where this comes into play
here Captain is a police helicopter crew spotted her Frozen corpse lying in the icy Salmon Creek on Wednesday January
3rd 1990. the body was naked except for a white sweater and white socks Arthur shawcross was seen standing on a nearby
bridge by the same helicopter and he was seen dropping something into the creek before driving off in the vehicle it was
this incident that would later lead to his arrest well this is kind of confusing so the body was found on the
third and what we think based off of reports is on the fourth is when they would see him because what what law
enforcement started to understand is whoever is committing these murders is going back to the scene so
that he probably um probably dumped her body before the third she was found on the third
probably the fourth is when he is caught which in my reports he's urinating on the bridge some have speculated that he
was uh masturbating on the bridge well and I think I think in regards to that Captain they couldn't determine what it
was he was doing I think they could determine that possibly his pants were down or his fly was unzipped yeah and
then so I think they ended up pulling them over well what what they ultimately end up
doing is the vehicle that he is in that night they're able to trace that vehicle
and they they trace that vehicle back to him in a sense that they connected to him because it belongs to one of the
women that he's seeing remember he's taking turns driving his wife's car and his girlfriend's car from time to time
to pick up these women to commit these murders well when they trace this vehicle back to him
it doesn't take long for them to run his his background and figure out that this
dude has murdered people in the past he's been convicted of one murder right and what they decide to do is they
decide to okay he he claims that he had no involvement in any of this however they're going to give him the night to
rest but they're going to observe him they're going to surveil him they're going to keep him under their watchful
eye early that next morning is when they take him down to the police headquarters
one thing that the detectives that spoke to Arthur shawcross in his questioning or interrogation whatever you want to
call it this was not FBI agents these were local detectives and they kind of picked up on some personality traits of
Arthur shawcross very quickly into speaking with him one they found that he was a talker that he liked the talk that
he liked to open up if you kept him comfortable he would keep speaking to you the other thing he seemed to want to
never trust a talker he seemed to want to be their friends in some kind of weird way even though he
was denying all their claims he seemed to be one wanting to be their friends in the sense that he wanted to open up to
them they use the tactic that I found pretty interesting which is a little bit weird
because this guy has got no soul my friend this guy has got no conscience this guy does not care about human
beings or life in general I mean he even said his interview I have no remorse yes
and what they do is they start saying look we don't want it you need to fess up to
these murders because we don't want anybody else to get in trouble for this and what they meant was okay you're
using your wife's car to commit these murders you're using your girlfriend's car to commit these murders those two
one of those two or both had to know what you were up to one of those two or both maybe were helping you commit these
murders yeah and he simply just said after hours and hours of them questioning him and things coming at him
is what he said yeah as he just got tired of it so he just confessed yeah and so he confesses to the murders not
all of the series that they had at the time I believe it was 14 or 15 murders in total that they had uh questioned him
about he would later confess too many of them actually leading them to a couple of the bodies that had been undiscovered
at that time but it was just in December of 1990 when Arthur shawcross was convicted of killing 10 women after
jurors decided he was sane and deliberated for only six and a half hours the judge sentenced him to 25
years for each count a total of 250 years imprisonment a few months later Shaw cross was taken to Wayne County and
tried for Elizabeth Gibson's murder rather than claim insanity this time he pled guilty and received a further life
sentence thank you [Music] foreign [Music] cheers me mateys cheers captain now prison officials said that Arthur
shawcross complained of a pain in his leg on the afternoon of November 10 2008. he was taken to Albany Medical
Center where he went into cardiac arrest other Shaw cross died that evening at 9
50 pm he was cremated and later his ashes were given to his daughter now before his death there was a
relationship that Arthur shawcross developed a pen pal relationship with a man named John Paul Faye and earlier
this year a book came out called the shaw cross letters which gives an inside look at Arthur shawcross one of
America's most notorious serial killers the shawcross letters is a graphic and dramatic True Crime book that will
horrify Enlighten and keep you up at night author Brian Whitney teamed up with John Paul Faye to write this book
to show us what happens when one of the most evil men in the history of America meets a man he trusts enough to share
his darkest secrets with and on the phone with us here in the garage is John Paul Faye the man that was pen pals with
convicted serial killer Arthur shawcross now John this is kind of interesting because Arthur actually reached out to
you you didn't actually reach out to him well and I ended up with his artwork through
interesting trades I did with uh say Sands of his or quote-unquote groupies and I used to sell very videotapes and
that type of thing like uncut horror movies and uh so when I got those drawings I decided to resell them and uh
Arthur discovered this and he ended up getting my address from one of his fans believe it or not with whom I've traded
and one day I went to the mailbox and there was a letter from the Sullivan Correctional Facility Arthur sharp
Crossing them of course the first time I was a bit taken aback I went to a quiet
spot to read the letter away from my so-called family members and he had mentioned that he knew I was selling
some of his artwork and all this stuff and I wasn't sure how to take it initially you know I uh you know if I
should feel threatened but so I I just collected myself and I wrote him back a letter it was uh you know a very
gentlemanly letter there's no uh no problems I just said that if you could do more drawings basically you know we
could split the proceeds and go from there and so he got back to me and uh said sure that basically that's a great
idea let's go ahead with that and so we started as he started doing artwork follow me which had resell and let's
split that with I just kind of a money order so then we just uh we developed a friendship from there and it became very
close for I I hate to say it I mean I saw him as a kind of father figure this because
my own life has been so Twisted as far as a male uh role models and it just it got strange obviously it's a deep down
the rabbit hole that type of thing but that's where I live anyway you know I've always um
been a very uh kind of Twisted dark character myself but uh say similar thoughts to a I say a Jeffrey Dahmer
kind of Jeffrey Dahmer 2.0 Dahmer if you were a writer I think but of course I've
come uh very close to engaging those activities myself but I mean I think that that's uh the summary all right so
you uh did hear that correctly you're probably listening and going what I'm more of the Jeffrey Dahmer type what is
John talking about well so he gets some items from Arthur and he's selling them on eBay and then Arthur reaches out to
him and he says hey if you draw some more drawings I can sell these and as they're communicating back and forth
John opens up to Arthur and says hey man I got some dark thoughts that I have yeah it sounds like
John you know has a a troubled past a possibly troubled childhood um that we can ask more questions about
but this leading to alcoholism some drug use and some very dark fantasies to which he's going to confide his thoughts
and feelings with this monster Arthur shawcross who's reached out to him so John you say that a friendship developed
between you and Shaw cross now during the course of this friendship in the beginning stages was it simply just
business as usual for Shaw Cross or was he trying to manipulate you or use you in any way no I never felt manipulated
uh it was a park business and park friendly once he figured out who was the same
type of person I was and I did explain that to him in a letter that you know I really am in a kind of similar position
psychologically then he loosened up and he got very friendly uh after that I mean long after I stopped selling his
artwork because eBay banned it and I was I'm getting along and you know and uh and even that was before we got into the
book so for there was a period there where we just uh there was a letter about every two weeks and he didn't
present himself as a celebrity it was just uh like a friend that we just got into some strange Topics in regard to uh
you know cannibalism and uh murder and all that fun stuff I guess I mean um you know I don't see eye to eye with him
on on everything and I don't necessarily agree on on what he did but I certainly
I understand it as far as identifying with uh serial killers it would be more along the lines of a dollar they say
killing for company that type of thing uh Chicago across himself I consider it more of a destroyer it was more like a
kind of a human Terminator as I put it for some reason we did hit it off was it was beyond uh Way Beyond the business
that was actually a small portion of it our relationship um you know just again just like two
friends talking and you know over a beer or something like that well John I think
uh me and the colonel have different conversations than you and Arthur had John did this ever go beyond just
letters did you ever go meet him in person he uh that was a kind of a contentious deal there because uh
towards the end of our relationship because I told I was supposed to go and meet him up in New York and uh I had
just come back from Arizona investing in a low budget movie and kind of lost in my funds so I was going to take a little
while before I could get up there so when I wrote him telling him I was going to visit he thought that was going to be
right away so he said well I thought I thought you said you were going to visit and he was angry about that I said well
just give me another month or so it's like my funds but uh you know things started falling apart after that that
was again towards the end of our relationship like he was upset that I didn't get to visit him he thought I was
going to come up to see him a lot sooner all right so Shaw cross and Son of Sam were actually in the same prison
together yeah and I heard that Arthur shawcross actually despised David Berkowitz the Son of Sam did he ever
mention that to you John oh he resented him yeah the money that miracle was nice
and money that he did not make sure oh yeah it was just it was resentment Miracles was a little more popular
agency and got more funding funding right now yeah so we could talk about it over the
years there have been several books written about Arthur shawcross and many newspaper and magazine articles was
shawcross keeping tabs on what was written about him was he was he reading his own material yeah absolutely
absolutely did he did a lot of reading in general but he definitely kept up on his own press and uh whatever books were
written about him yes did shawcross ever mention the book The misbegotten Son by
Jack Olson yeah yeah I'm remembering how actually yes he had mentioned Jack Olsen
several times actually he sent me an envelope like with Jack Olsen's return address on it truck Ross had signed you
know so yeah actually I have a an envelope here with uh Jack Olson's address on it believe it or not that I'm
thinking of it John did Arthur ever ask you about females in your life maybe your mother or sister or girlfriend or
somebody uh yeah once in a while he was he would ask what was belong in my life as far as
uh females but uh you know for the most part I was a isolated you know you asked
about my uh cousin Michelle for instance and uh who was actually uh for a period
they're pregnant at the time and he would uh joke about that say for instance uh he never mentioned my mother
or sister or anything but uh yeah definitely like the the focus was on my pregnant cousin Michelle at the time
yeah did he ever ask you to send him things or pictures of these women just a picture of uh her pregnant basically
um which is a copy of them for sure a photo of my cousin Michelle uh showing there's
a her belly there at the time but that was that was more for comedy search really did he ever ask you to send him
anything uh anything weird or anything that would be considered contraband he never requested
anything I sent him stuff that They confiscated but uh yeah he never directly requested anything because he
knew it would be confiscated yeah all right so what we're not going to ask you about that but uh John after you told
shawcross about some of your darker fantasies do you feel like he ever tried to manipulate you or send you encrypted
messages to kind of point you in the direction or push you over the edge and get you to do some of the horrible
things that he has done yeah and I guess a read between the lines kind of ways say things like be good or be good at it
you know and uh we both knew what we were talking about there in that regarding about the pressure points on it where
how to show the person properly along those lines so yeah there you go so the answer is yes he was kind of
teaching me uh I guess how to kill and hurt people you know yeah but do you think he was trying to push
you in that direction he didn't seem to directly want that but he didn't have to be against it either
um you know he knew where I was in my life so he didn't discourage my line of thinking you know it all you know so it
almost seemed like he was encouraging it and whether he meant to or not he he was
and you know talking about how to pick up hitchhikers and again choke them you know beheadings and you know that's uh
all that lovely stuff yeah and of course cannibalism is often a topic of discussion to he and I
how did he uh kind of I guess instructing me on how to properly cook a human being for instance
yeah yeah again I guess a simple answer is uh yeah see in his own way he was a okay
again wasn't discouraging me at all so I know that you guys spoke about cannibalism a lot because that is one of
your dark fantasies a lot of those times when he ate pieces of people it was raw
but uh other times she had mentioned the uh roasting here like calf muscles and uh over Open Flame and uh indulging in
that yeah and basically it was a focused on like the calf muscles and the uh I guess the
buttocks of women in particular yes so he would uh he talked about that quite a bit with me actually he went
back and forth on that and uh I you know I I don't necessarily agree again with his uh type of cannibalism
because his was more a destruction cannibalism uh my interest would be again something like uh absorbing the
person somebody who was affectionate for um assimilation you know kind of a quick
and dirty way to upload a person's soul into your own soul uh his was more uh I'd say barbaric uh mine would be more
uh ritual I suppose I mean my interest anyway how long did your correspondence go on with uh Arthur shawcross
it was my uh a little over five years and it was a wrote a letter every two weeks like I said now there's a article
out there that states that you had said at one point in your life Arthur shawcross was more of a father
figure or maybe even a better Father Figure to you than your own father or males in your life
yes well that's also true the uh male figures in my life has been brutal and ignorance you know in like uh even worse
than short opinion just that well in in a sense in a sense I mean were they I mean they abused uh abused me
growing up in uh in one way or another and basically it was just physical or verbal abuse but uh
my own father he never mentally grew up but he's Vicious he's still basically nine years old mentally but he's
extremely vicious and aggressive and then my surrogate father uh my Uncle Jerry he was a brutal man you know he he
was vicious and violent and so I had no one to really turn to and uh you know he
was like friends they're all Psychopaths and criminals and uh so I mean it was so
bad I ended up seeing a Shaw cross I guess as the lesser of evils as they say you know and I got along with them a
hell of a lot better than the other male figures in my life you know so that's that's how that goes well and John and
just to be clear we're not saying that that Shaw cross is a better person or a better man than these two individuals
we're just simply saying that your correspondence with him he treated you with more respect maybe kindness and
friendship than these others have shown you yeah that's exactly it that's it that's how bad that's what I'm saying
that's how bad the other men were but I just turned to uh one of the worst serial killer cannibals this world ever
known so there you go it's my life what did you know about Shaw cross before he reached out to you well again
see with or identify with you know so I I've been studying say serial killers and
occults uh since I was uh nine or ten years old I started with a Zodiac Killer again so I I was feeling differently
than everybody else I knew it was different and I was just searching for some answers you know so that's the main
reason I got into it so I had read by that time 2000 I had read a couple of books about him uh Jack Olsen's book and
uh Bill Norris material and uh so I I did know about about him I had read a read about him and uh at the very least
it's not seen at least a documentary about him and he discovered you because you were selling things on eBay was
shawcross interested in any of your collections well let's see he was fascinated with the shrunken head
collection um because I I was a again I would be collecting uh I collected truck
and head replica trunk and heads well one was made out of a real human scale apparently but uh yeah collecting those
and he was very interested I don't think he'd be questioning himself he didn't seem like much of a collector type but
he was very interested in it yeah I used to collect the shrunken heads and mummified heads replica mummified heads
so um yeah I've since sold them but uh I'd like to start recollecting at some point yeah I did get to hold a real one
the man I sold him to he actually he had a real authentic one that I got to hold
he has a little Museum as a tattoo parlor that I visited yeah so that was an interesting experience very
interesting day that was a day for a lot of first one yeah it goes to that another time but
yeah what was your takeaway from this pin power relationship with the serial killer
yeah Twisted thing to say but I almost felt uh wanted and accepted that was the main thing that there was someone out
there who would accept me I I guess that's the bottom line I mean that sums it up other than people's
interest in True Crime what are the other reasons to go out and pick up your book yeah it's just that's
a thing it's not meant to be uh gratuitous um and it's not one-dimensional it's not
just uh like I'm just stuck in stagnance at this phase where I'm thinking this way this is about a recovery from it a
recovery some I say purging my Boogeyman uh from this type of thinking and uh as
well as the addictions to alcohol and drugs I mean that's what it's about it's about coming out on the other side of
this at the end of it and if the thing is if somebody else is having either uh these types of thoughts or addictions
the main thing is you have to find someone you trust you could talk to you just talk about it you have to find a
therapeutic way to exercise these demons without hurting anybody that's the main
thing that's what I got to get across I'm not just sitting here drooling and grinning manically like I really this is
about my getting better you know that's the point and I I've improved almost uh 180 degree turn almost maybe it's 130
minutes I'm getting there but yeah this is really I've recovered for the most part
from uh that again that's frequency of thought because I I say um but yeah that's the thing it's really
not meant to be uh you know again something where I'm reveling in the evil it's not that at all you know because
this was therapeutic to write the book this is a therapy for me again you know if you work out these demons in a
diplomatic and healthy away as I could you know that was the main thing you know I had to get it out of my system
foreign [Music] well of course Captain our recommended reading this week is the shaw cross
letters my journey into the mind of Evil by John Paul Faye and Brian Whitney you
can pick that up at Amazon or wherever books are sold I want to thank Brian and John for chatting with us and all of our
recommended readings are on our website so check out True Crime garage.com click
on the recommended page and if you're not listening on the Stitcher app make sure you download it we'll be announcing
something very soon about partnering with them on a cool project all right well thank you Captain very exciting
stuff and thank you to everybody out there until next time be good be kind and don't let it
[Applause] thank you [Music]

Arthur Shawcross /// The Shawcross Letters /// Part 2

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Episode 199 - Arthur Shawcross, the monster often referred to as “the worst serial killer, you’ve never heard of”. That may not be the case as Shawcross came from one of New York state’s more populated cities. This man was a convicted child killer set free by the state to kill again. During his time in prison Shawcross allowed members of the media to interview him on several occasions. Shawcross also had several pen pals that he wrote to often. This week we discuss the life and murders committed by “The Genesee River Killer” and speak with one of his pen pals, John Paul Fey. John is the co-author of the soon to be best seller “The Shawcross Letters”Beer of the Week - Genesee BeerGarage Grade - 3 out of 5 bottle caps

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

Arthur Shawcross's crimes and his pen pal relationship with John Paul Faye are discussed in detail.

Key points

The Fridge is Full. This week's fridge is filled with Genesee Beer, a classic since 1878.
The Discovery of Victims. The gruesome details of victims found and the patterns of their murders emerge.
Shawcross's Letters. Arthur Shawcross writes chilling letters revealing his dark thoughts and past actions.
Arthur Shawcross Confesses. After hours of questioning, Shawcross confesses to multiple murders, leading to his conviction.
The Shawcross Letters. A new book reveals the chilling correspondence between Shawcross and his pen pal, John Paul Faye.
A Disturbing Friendship. John Paul Faye shares his unsettling friendship with Shawcross, revealing dark conversations.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you.

Host greeting

0:51WatchNov 26, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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