Arthur Shawcross /// The Shawcross Letters /// 199 | Forensic Files

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the following is taken from letters to John Paul Fay from Arthur shawcross written behind Prison
Walls hello John you can call me art if you want the stationary you chose is quite good reminds me of someone I knew
one time tied up blindfolded and gagged as good her legs would not be tied wide open I like blondes brunettes redheads
or whatever but I am choosy in the type I crave but at times I lose control and it's as if I made a snuff
film you forgot to mention a saw or two my specialty is the Keyhole saw it's what I used on three victims
then you have the jigsaw real Handy OJ didn't kill Nicole his friend did think about it he also had a white
Bronco it's very strange it was gotten rid of right away so you tell me something worth looking
into John if you want a woman for the winter pull one of the homeless she will like it in inside all winter then in the
spring let her go I've been there all winter with two women in the apartment what tastes better than
pork Jeffrey dmer was into eating and torturing his homosexual Partners as for me I only ate certain
parts quite tasty at that don't need salt either Ed gan's last victim was just about like one of mine
but not tied up mine was laying back legs open with a silly grin on her mug John the sa man every human no
matter what color looks the same after they're skinned you go to Southern Cal stay away
from any earthquake section AIDS lets you and I waste some morons be cool pal don't hurt anyone at
least don't get caught at it gotta go pal Good Day [Music] art anamarie stefen age 27 was an
emaciated sex worker who took to working the streets to support a drug habit she
was last seen alive on Saturday July 8 1989 while walking along ly Avenue Arthur shawcross had met her by the
princess restaurant on Lake Avenue and he walked with her to the back of the YMCA he then drove her down to the
driving Park and during oral sex he grabbed her throat and strangled her before rolling her body over the edge of
the jese River Gorge it is reported that she was frustrated after Arthur could not get an erection after 40 minutes
it's also alleged that she threatened to tell the police that she had seen Arthur
Shaw cross with dosi remember she was the victim that we discussed yesterday MH Anam Marie's body was found on Sunday
September 11th 1988 this is by Hector Maldonado while he was searching for returnable bottles so that he could save
up some money to buy cigarettes the victim was lying on her left side curled in a semi fetal position a pair of
Calvin Klein jeans were pulled down around the ankles and turned inside out a white tank top with red shoulder
straps was wrapped around the right wrist and a clump of hair had been ripped from the skull the eyes were
missing from their sockets now just 3 weeks later on Saturday July 29th 1989 Dorothy Keller this was supposedly
Shaw cross's friend would be his third victim now she was different from the first two in the
sense that she was not a sex worker she was a 58-year-old woman she was homeless and
sha cross had met Dorothy while when she worked as a waitress and a diner that he
had gone to the two struck up a friendship which had quickly turned into an affair on an afternoon this was um on
his way to fish in the river mm he stopped when he saw Keller to speak with her when she found out where he was
going she asked if he could take her with him and he agreed according to sha cross they spent the morning fishing and
making love until around midday when it started to rain now didn't she live with
them at some point I believe so there there there were a couple people that sha cross had affairs with or so he
would later claim because we have this individual here that would end up a murder victim that that can't tell us
otherwise mhm um and one thing that I think that we're going to see here with Shaw cross is there seems to be a reason
for most of these murders or at least a reason that he has made up in his mind you know either um the the woman made
fun of him or bit him or assaulted him or tried to Rob him and therefore he lost control and decided to kill them
and with Dorothy uh the interview that I saw Arthur was saying that Dorothy lived
with him and that he also paid her was some weird amount like $432 or something to clean the apartment
yeah he would claim that there was a couple things that sent him into a rage you know they're they're huddling
together in this crude shelter that Shaw cross put together while it rains out there and he states that while they're
huddling together they get into some kind of argument and it's starts off with an argument about her stealing
money and then it turns into their arguing about his relationships that he has with rose and with Clara he claimed
that she started to threaten him telling saying that she was going to tell the other women about their affair right and
this is when Arthur Shaw cross became angry he picked up a small log and he beat her on the side of the head uh
until he killed her now he he hit her body under a fallen tree and then he went home her body was found on October
21st but he later told police that at one time he had returned to the spot several months later and removed the
skull and dumped it in the river yeah and in the interview I saw they said oh how did you you know remove
the skull he said you just do you just do yeah he doesn't have that big of an accent but yeah sounded better sounded
better in my head on Friday September 29th 1989 Patricia IES this was another Lake Avenue sex worker also known as
crazy Patty she was um 25 years old at the time drug dependent a high school dropout she did have a a baby a young
child uh who had been placed in foster care some say that she once was a very attractive woman that she she used to
Bear more of a resemblance to the film star Julia Roberts um but by this point because the drugs had taken their toll
and she was a bit of a walking skeleton she had uh ragged and unkempt hair uh and she also had needle marks from her
elbows to her fingers yeah that's sad it was also believed that she might have had the AIDS virus now Arthur shawcross
claims that she offered him sex for $25 um when he approached the same Diner where Dorothy Keller had worked he
agreed to this and they went to a construction site while there uh and while having sex shoss says that he
caught IES trying to remove his wallet and pushed her hard against the ground she began to cry and he raped her and
began to strangle her until she didn't move anymore sha cross said that there were
children playing nearby and he states that I put my hand over her mouth and held her nose she didn't struggle she
didn't holler she didn't fight that he knew her and that Patty had been in the company of a white male who was riding a
bike with balloon tires there were fishing rods protruding from the Cycle's rear baskets Patty was reported missing
the following day by her pimp SL booyfriend who on the streets went by the name get get ready for this okay
this is went by the name is the Pimp's name yes okay rat face Billy you can't make this stuff up I'm
telling you who's your who's your boyfriend oh you know old rat face uh we shouldn't laugh uh po Patty's
body was found by children who were looking for a lost baseball on Friday October 27th when they saw a foot
sticking out from a pile of flattened cardboard the corpse was clothed in black pants and a sweatshirt lying face
up and a wedding ring was missing from her finger there were no shoes or socks on the body and maggots had devoured
most of the Flesh on October 23rd 1989 June stot uh was 30 years old was the youngest of
eight children she was homeless she apparently heard mysterious voices in her head and had been taken to sleeping
on Lyle Avenue now she's she's different in a sense that she's not a sex worker or a drug addict this is something that
you and I have spoke about before on our little show here our little garage show
that taking care of people that have mental health issues yeah but I mean I also think we have issues with you know
trying to take care of you know the sex workers I mean whether it's you know should be legal or shouldn't be legal I
mean we have to do a better job well I only point that out here because from everything I could gather it appears
that this this young woman was simply homeless because of of the problems she had and it wasn't due to drugs or
anything of that nature that she simply needed to be taken care of and didn't have anyone to help her with this yeah
now cross you know this is this is what we will see time and time again from from Monsters like sha cross they will
find somebody they will come across somebody with uh let's say what he would determine to be a weakness and he's
going to pre upon that person and make them further victimize them because he can yeah and he's going to talk her into
going fishing with them which we know is a bad thing well and when they're down by the water he's trying to talk her and
into having sex with with him and she refuses and he says this is when he decided to strangle her yeah now 2 days
later he returned to the body and he dragged it down into the um there's an area there with those large
Cattails uh he dragged the body there and using a knife he cut open her body from the breast bone to the crotch he
then gutted her like a a fish using his words throwing the entrails into the river
on Thursday November hold on I just want to point out that in the interview I watched on him he claims that this
attack happened and he didn't leave he was there all day and that he actually cut her open beforehand before returning
to the body right now that's what he claims now the only reason why I bring that up is that you see a lot of times
in his stories now he's either misremembering or he's making stuff up as he correct yeah and on Thursday
November 23rd a man walking his dog he noticed an ice covered object it was a piece of carpet under which was the
badly decomposed body of June stot the corpse was face down but lividity staining showed that she had been rolled
over long after death the right leg was bent inward at the knee elevating the buttocks and suggesting the possibility
of intercourse after death with the body the vagina was missing from the body and
Arthur Shaw cross later said that he had ate it yeah and wow this is a graphic show um but law enforcement are now well
aware that they're looking for a serial killer well that's kind of a unique situation I guess in the sense that
that's not always the case you know sometimes they arrest a guy for a murder and then later find out that he's guilty
of three or four or five right here we have enough of a consistency in victims and how often they are finding these
victims that they're well aware that they're probably looking for they're at least looking for a serial killer mhm
it's undetermined if all of these are connected to the same guy or not yeah so they actually had a couple sting
operations that they set up and having police officers go undercover and because you know a lot of these victims
were sex workers so they were trying to you know figure this out now what Arthur
talks about in his interview is that he used to hang on at the Dunkin' donuts and he happened to be wearing like for
whatever reason he says some very shiny shoes and so when these officers were in
there talking about this stuff that they kind of just assume because of his shiny
shoes that he was law enforcement okay but none of them were dressed in uniform so they started talking about H how
they're trying to run this sting operation mhm and basically by just being at that dut shop he learned I know
there's probably a bunch of cop jokes out there with the donut shop but he learned all the decoys and so he could
stay away from them right right he would he would overhear these officers talking
about their investigation at times he was even speaking with them and it he was a regular in several diners and
coffee shops and this allowed him access to those uh individual ual now there were several victims in the course of
November of 1989 Marie Welch Francis Brown there's one that I do want to talk about in
particular this is a story from early November 1989 a Woman by the name of Joanne van nostran told police about a
client named Mitch a guy that called himself Mitch who had paid her to play dead the man also tried to strangle her
she pulled a knife on on him and fought him off this was the first Real Lead the
investigators received it was the second time that the man with the same physical
description named either Mike or Mitch had been mentioned in reference to the murders interviews with many of the
Lyall Street sex workers indicated that he was a regular and that he had the reputation of being violent with the
women and Elizabeth Gibson was also one of his Vic VI yes she was last seen working the streets on Lyall Avenue on
Saturday November 25th her body was found just 2 Days Later by a deer hunter walking through the woods now at this
crime scene police discovered Tire impressions in the muddy ground and they also discovered blue paint chips uh from
where a vehicle had scraped a tree now this paint would later be matched to Claire's blue Dodge Omni this was of
course a vehicle that sh cross often borrowed the his ninth victim or believed to be ninth victim was Darlene
trippy aged 32 she was last seen Alive by her sister on Friday December 15th it wasn't until after his arrest that sha
cross was able to direct police to Darlene's frozen body I want to point out something though here Captain we
we're seeing a frequency to this aren't we I mean we're talking about multiple victims in in the same month we're
talking about what they would later say probably 11 victims is what we're looking at is is pretty much a
certainty uh probably more victims were involved in this series that were not included in his later convictions
possibly yeah but we're seeing we're seeing what we've seen from time to time before you know when we discussed Ted
Bundy or the Green River Killer where you see a guy that has this capability that has murder on his mind who is
appears to almost have spiraled out of control to the point where he's murdering two three people a month well
let's talk about how old noodle dick is caught well so the investigation kind of
works like this we have most of the victims were sex workers who worked in the red light district of lake and ly
Avenues the women were either strangled or beaten to death and each was disposed
of naked or partially clothed around the city and close to or in water most of the victims had debris stuffed into
their ears nose and other body cavities their clothes were often found neatly folded or close to the corpses which
ranged in decomposition from skeletal to preserved in several instances the body
exhibited signs of having been partially eaten by wild animals or cannibalized by
the killer himself recognizing the these patterns the Rochester Police doubled the size of
its physical crimes unit round thee clock surveillance by Rochester PD Tactical Unit focused attention on the
red light district where many of the victims were last seen to be alive the services of the FBI profilers were
called upon to complete a psychological profile of the serial killer the successful capture of Arthur J shawcross
was due to an equal combination of good luck and dogged police work ultimately though it was the mindset of this
psychopath that ultimately sealed his Fate One of Shaw cross's last victims was June cisero she was aged 34 she was
a strong character with a drug habit she had arrived in Rochester from Brooklyn New York in
1973 and she had been well known on the streets of Rochester where she was regarded as something of a mother figure
to many of the younger women who operated in the red light district she was a pistol yes June suddenly
disappeared Without a Trace from the red light district uh this was on the late evening of Sunday December 17th
1989 now where this comes into play here Captain is a police helicopter crew spotted her Frozen corpse lying in the
icy Salmon Creek on Wednesday January 3rd 1990 the body was naked except for a white sweater and white white socks
Arthur shawcross was seen standing on a nearby bridge by the same helicopter and
he was seen dropping something into the creek before driving off in the vehicle it was this incident that would later
lead to his arrest well this is kind of confusing uh so the body was found on thei and what we think based off a
reports is on the fourth is when they would see him cuz what what law enforcement started to understand is
whoever is committing these murders is going back to the scene so the he probably um probably dumped her body
before the third she was found on the third probably the fourth is when he is caught which in my reports he's
urinating on the bridge some have speculated that he was uh masturbating on the bridge well and I think I think
in regards to that Captain they couldn't determine what it was he was doing I think they could determine that possibly
his pants were down or his fly was unzipped yeah and then so I think they ended up pulling him over well what what
they ultimately end up doing is the vehicle that he is in that night they're able to trace that vehicle and they they
trace that vehicle back to him in a sense that they connected to him because it belongs to one of the women that he's
seeing remember he's taking turns driving his wife's car and his girlfriend's car from time to time to
pick up these women to commit these murders well when they trace this vehicle back to him it doesn't take long
for them to run his his background and figure out that this dude has murdered people in the past he's been convicted
of one murder right and what they decide to do is they decide to okay he he claims that he had no involvement in any
of this however they're going to give him the night to rest but they're going to observe him they're going to surveil
him they're going to keep him under their watchful eye early that next morning is when they take him down to
the police headquarters one thing that the detectives that spoke to Arthur shawcross in his questioning or
interrogation whatever you want to call it this was not FBI agents these were local detectives and they kind of picked
up on some personality traits of Arthur sha cross very quickly into speaking with him one they found that he was a
talker he that he liked to talk that he liked to open up if you kept him comfortable he would keep speaking to
you mhm the other thing he seemed to want never trust a talker he seemed to want to be their friends in some kind of
weird way even though he was denying all their claims he seemed to be want wanting to be their friends in the sense
that he wanted to open up to them mhm they used a tactic that I found pretty interesting
which is a little bit weird because this guy has got no soul my friend this guy has got no conscience this guy does not
care about human beings or life in general I mean he even said in his interview I have no remorse yes and what
they do is they start saying look we don't want it you need to fess up to these murders because we don't
want anybody else to get in trouble for this and what they meant was okay you're
using your wife's car to Comm these murders you're using your girlfriend's car to commit these murders those two
one of those two are both had to know what you were up to one of those two or both maybe were helping you commit these
murders yeah and he simply just said after hours and hours of them questioning him and things coming at him
is what he said yeah is he just got tired of it so he just confessed yeah and so he confesses to the murders um
not all of the series that they had at the time I believe it was 14 or 15 murders in total that they had uh
questioned him about he would later confess to many of them actually leading them to a couple of the bodies that had
been undiscovered at that time but it was just in December of 1990 when Arthur shawcross was convicted of killing 10
women after jurors decided he was sane and deliberated for only 6 and 1 half hours the judge sentenced him to 25
years for each count a total of 250 years imprisonment a few months later Shaw cross was taken to Wayne County and
tried for Elizabeth Gibson's murder rather than claim insanity this time he pled guilty and received a further life
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[Music] that all right cheers me mate cheers captain now prison officials said that Arthur
shawcross complained of a pain in his leg on the afternoon of November 10th 2018 he was taken to Albany Medical
Center where he went into cardiac arrest Arthur sha cross died that evening at 9:50 p.m. he was cremated and later his
ass es were given to his daughter now before his death there was a relationship that Arthur Shaw cross
developed a penp pal relationship with a man named John Paul Fay and earlier this
year a book came out called the shawcross letters which gives an inside look at Arthur shawcross one of
America's most notorious serial killers the shawcross letters is a graphic and dramatic True Crime book that will
horrify enlighten and keep you up at night author Brian Whitney teamed up with John Paul Fay to write this book to
show us what happens when one of the most evil men in the history of America meets a man he trusts enough to share
his darkest secrets with and on the phone with us here in the garage is John Paul Fay the man that was penp Pals with
convicted serial killer Arthur shawcross now John this is kind of interesting because Arthur actually reached out to
you you didn't actually reach out to him well first of all reach out to me first
and uh initially I was selling some of his artwork on eBay back when he could sell the murder ailia and I ended up
with his artwork through interesting trades I did with uh say fans of his quote unquote groupies and I used to
sell various videotapes and that type of thing like uncut horror movies and uh so
when I got those drawings I decided to resell them and uh Arthur discovered this and he ended up getting my address
from one of his fans believe it or not with whom I've uh traded and one day I went to the mailbox and there was a
letter from the Solan Correctional Facility Arthur Shar Crossing of course the first I was uh a bit taken aback I
went to a quiet spot to read the letter away from so-called family members and he had mentioned that he knew I was
selling some of his artwork and all this stuff and I wasn't sure how to take it initially you know I uh you know if I
should feel threatened but so I I just collected Myself and I wrote him back a letter it was uh you know a very
gentlemanly letter there no uh no problems I just said that if you could do more drawings basically you know we
could we could split the proceeds and go from there and so he got back to me and
uh said sure basically that's a great idea let's go ahead with that and so we we started he started uh doing artwork
for for me which i' resell and split split that with him I just got him a money order so then we just uh we
developed a friendship from there and it became very close where I I hate to say
it I mean I saw him as a kind of father fig just because my own life has been so
Twisted as far as male uh Role Models quote unquote and it just it got strange obviously it's s deep down the rabbit
hole that type of thing but that's where I live anyway you know I've always um been a very kind of Twisted dark
character myself but say similar thoughts to a I say a Jeffrey dmer kind of Jeffrey dmer 2.0 dmer if you were a
writer I think but of course I've come uh very close to engaging those activities myself but I mean I think
that that's a the summary all right so you uh did hear that correctly you're probably listening and going what I'm
more of the Jeffrey dmer type what is John talking about well so he gets some items from Arthur and he's selling them
on eBay and then Arthur reaches out to him and he says hey if you draw some more drawings I can sell these and as
they're communicating back and forth John opens up to to Arthur and says hey man I got some dark thoughts that I have
yeah it sounds like John you know has a a troubled past a possibly troubled childhood um that we can ask more
questions about but this leading to alcoholism some drug use and some very dark fantasies to which he's going to
confide his thoughts and feelings with this monster Arthur shawcross who's reached out to him so John you say that
a friendship developed between you and sha cross now during the course of this friendship in the beginning stages was
it simply just business as usual for Shaw Cross or was he trying to manipulate you or use you in any way no
no I never felt manipulated uh it was a part business and and part friendly once
he figured out who what type of person I was and I did explain that to him in the
letter that you know I really am in a kind of similar position psychologically then he loosened up and he got very
friendly uh after that I mean long after I I stopped selling his artwork because
eBay banned it we getting along and you know and uh and even that was before we got into the book too for there was a
period there where we just uh there was a letter about every two weeks and he didn't present himself as a celebrity we
just uh like a friend we we just got into some uh strange topics in regard to uh you know cannibalism and uh murder
and and all that fun stuff I guess I mean um you know I don't see eye to eye with him on on everything and I don't
necessarily agree on on what he did but I certainly I understand it as far as identifying with u serial killers it
would be more along the lines of a dber they say killing for company that type of thing Arthur Shaw cross himself I
consider it more of a destroyer he more like a kind of a human Terminator as I put it for some reason we did hit it off
was it was beyond uh Way Beyond the business that was actually a small portion of it our relationship um you
know just again just like two friends talking and you know over a beer or something like that well John I think uh
me and the colonel have different conversations than you and Arthur had John did this ever go beyond just
letters did you ever go meet him in person he uh that that was a kind of a a contentious deal there because uh toward
the end of our relationship because I told I was supposed to go and meet him up in New York and uh I had just come
back from Arizona investing in in a lowbudget movie and kind of exhausted my funds so I was going to take a little
while to for to get up there so when I wrote him telling him I was going to visit he thought that was going to be
right away so he he said well I thought I thought you said you were going to visit and he was angry about that I said
well just give me another month or so collect my funds but uh you know things started falling apart after that that
was again towards the end end of our relationship but he was upset that I didn't get to to visit him he thought he
was going to come up to see him a lot sooner all right so sha cross and Son of Sam were actually in the same prison
together yeah and I heard that Arthur shawcross actually despised David burkowitz the Son of Sam did he ever
mention that to you John oh I resented him yeah the money that burtz makes and money that he did not make shr himself
oh yeah it was just it was resentment that burz was a little more popular against got got more fun funding than
him yeah so we did talk about him over the years there have been several books written about Arthur Shaw cross and many
newspaper and magazine articles was sha cross keeping tabs on what was written about him was he was he reading his own
material yeah absolutely he absolutely did he did a lot of reading in general but he definitely kept up on his own
press and uh whatever books are written about him yes did sha cross ever mention
the book The misbegotten Son by Jack Olsen yeah yeah and I'm remembering now actually yes he had mentioned Jack Olsen
several times actually he sent me an envelope like with Jack Olson's return address on it sha cross had signed you
know so yeah actually I have an envelope here with Jack ol's return a dress on it
believe it or not not that I'm thinking of it John did Arthur ever ask you about
females in your life maybe your mother sister or girlfriend or somebody uh yeah once in a while he he would ask what was
going on in my life as far as uh females but uh you know for the most part I was
uh isolated you know he asked about my uh cousin Michelle for instance and uh who was actually for a period there
pregnant at the time and he would uh joke about that say for instance uh he never mentioned my mother sister or
anything but uh yeah definitely like the the focus was on my pregnant cousin Michelle at the time yeah did he ever
ask you to send him things or pictures of these women just a picture of uh her pregnant basically um which he did a
copy of a picture of photo of my cousin Michelle showing her her belly there at the time but that was more for comedy
sake really did he ever ask you to send him anything uh anything weird or anything that would be considered
contraband he never requested anything I sent him stuff that They confiscated but
uh yeah he never directly quested anything he knew would be confiscated yeah all right so we're not going to ask
you about that but uh John after you told Shaw cross about some of your darker fantasies do you feel like he
ever tried to manipulate you or send you encrypted messages to kind of point you
in the direction or push you over the edge and get you to do some of the horrible things that he has done yeah
and I guess I read between the lines kind of way it say things like be good or be good at it you know and and uh we
both knew what you were talking about there in that regard and about uh pressure points how to where how to
choke a person properly along those lines so yeah there you go the answer is yes he was kind of
teaching me uh I guess how how to kill or or hurt people yeah but do you think he was trying to push you in that
direction he didn't seem to directly want that but he didn't seem to be against it either um you know he knew
where I was in my life so he he didn't discourage my line of thinking you know at all you know so it only seem like he
was encouraging it and whether he meant to or not he he he was and you know talking about how to pick a pitch hikers
and again choke them you know beheadings and you know that all that lovely stuff
yeah and and of course cannibalism is often a topic of discussion between he and I you how to how to he kind of I
guess instructing me on how to properly cook a human being for instance yeah again I guess the simple
answer is yes in his own way he was again wasn't discouraging me at all so I know that you guys spoke about
cannibalism a lot because that is one of your dark fantasies a lot of times when he ate
pieces of people it was raw but uh other times he had mentioned say uh roasting the say calf muscle and uh over a Open
Flame and uh indulging in that and basically it was focused on like the calf muscles and the I guess
the buttocks of women in particular yes so he would uh he he talked about that quite a bit with me
actually he went back and forth on that and uh I you know I I don't necessarily agree again with his uh type of
cannibalism because his was more a destruction cannibalism and uh my interest would be again something like U
absorbing the person somebody you have affection for um assimilation you know kind of a quick and dirty way to upload
a person Soul into your own soul uh his was more uh I would say barbaric mine would be more ritual I
suppose I mean my interest anyway how long did your correspondence go on with uh Arthur
shawcross it was like uh a little over five years and it was about a letter every two weeks like I say now there's
an article out there that states that you had said at one point in your life Arthur shawcross was more of a father
figure or maybe even a better Father Figure to you than your own father or males in your
life yes well that's also true the uh male figures in my life have been brutal in ignorance you know and like uh even
worse than sure opinion just well in in a in a sense in a sense I mean where they I mean they abused uh abused me
growing up in in one way or another basically it was just physical or verbal abuse but uh my my own father he he
never mentally grew up but he's Vicious he's still basically nine years old mentally but he's extremely vicious and
aggressive and then my surrogate father uh my Uncle Jerry he was a brutal man you know he he was vicious and violent
and so I had no one to really turn to and you know like friends they're alls Psychopaths and criminals and so I mean
it was so bad I ended up seeing uh sh cross I guess as the lesser of evils as they say you know and I got along with
them a hell of a lot better than the other male figures in my life you know so that's that's how that goes well and
John and just to be clear we're not saying that that Shaw cross is a better person or a better man than these two
individuals we're just simply saying that your correspondence with him he treated you with more respect maybe
kindness and friendship than these others have shown you yeah well that's exactly it that's it that's how bad
that's what I'm saying that's how bad the other men were had it turned to a one of the worst
serial killer cannibals this world ever known so there you go it's my life what did you know about Shaw cross before he
reached out to you well again throughout my life I had been seeking somebody I could uh again kind of with or identify
with you know so I I've been studying say stereo pillars and occults uh since I was uh n nine or 10 years old I
started with a Zodiac Killer again because I I was feeling differently than everybody else I knew it was different
and I was just searching some answers you know so that's the main reason I got into it so I had read by that time 2000
I had read a couple of books about him uh Jack olsson's book and uh Bill Norris material and uh so I I I did know about
him I had read a had read about him and uh at the very least if not seeing at least a documentary about him and he
discovered you because you were selling things on eBay was sha cross interested in any of your collections well let's
see he was fascinated with the shrunken head collection um was I would again I I
would be collecting uh I collected trunk and head replica trunk and head well one
was made out of a real human scale apparently but uh yeah collecting those and he was very interested I don't think
he'd be collecting them themselves he didn't seem like much of a collector type but he was very interested in it
made some about it but yeah I used to collect the shrunken heads and and mummified heads mummified heads so um
yeah I I've since sold them but uh i' like to start recollecting at some point yeah I did get to hold a real one
the the man I sold him to he actually he had a real authentic one I got to hold as a a little Museum as a tattoo parlor
that I visited and yeah so that was an interesting experience very interesting day that was a day for a lot of
th yeah get into that another time but yeah what was your takeaway from this pinp pal relationship with this Cal
killer yeah well it it uh it's a very uh Twisted thing to say but I almost felt uh wanted and accepted that was the main
thing that there was someone out there who would accept me I I guess that that's the bottom line and that sums it
up other than people's interest in True Crime what are the other reasons to go out and pick up your book yeah it's
that's a thing it's not meant to be uh gratuitous um and it's not one dimensional it's not just uh like I'm
just stuck and stagnant at this phase where I'm thinking this way this is about a recovery from it a recovery from
I say purging my Boogeyman uh from from this type of thinking and uh as well as the addictions to alcohol and drugs I
mean that's what it's about it's about coming out on the other side of this at the end of it and if thing is if
somebody else is having either uh these types of thoughts or addictions the main
thing is you have to find someone you trust you could talk to you got to talk about it you have to find a therapeutic
way to exercise these these demons without hurting anybody that that's the main thing that's what you got to get
across I'm not just sitting here drooling and grinning maniacally I I really I this is about my getting better
you know that's the point and I I've I've improved almost 180 degree turn almost maybe it's 17 so but I'm getting
there but yeah this is really I recovered for the most part from uh that again that frequency of thought as I I
say um but yeah that's the thing it's really not meant to be a you know again something where I'm reving in the evil
it's not that at all you know because this was therapeutic to write the book this is a therapy for me again you know
to work out these demons in as diplomatic and healthy a way as I could you know that was the main thing that
you know I had to get it out of my [Music] system well of course Captain our recommended reading this week is the
shaw cross letters my journey into the mind of Evil by John Paul Fay and Brian Whitney you can pick that up at Amazon
or wherever books are sold I want to thank uh Brian and John for chatting with us and all of our recommended
readings are on our website so check out truecar.com click on the recommended page and if you're not listening on the
Stitcher app make sure you download it we'll be announcing something very soon about partnering with them on a cool
project all right well thank you Captain very exciting stuff and thank you to every everybody out there until next
time be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter you can start your day off right when
you find a professional on Angie to get your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals
to get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you
Angie that

Arthur Shawcross /// The Shawcross Letters /// Part 2

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Episode 199 - Arthur Shawcross, the monster often referred to as “the worst serial killer, you’ve never heard of”. That may not be the case as Shawcross came from one of New York state’s more populated cities. This man was a convicted child killer set free by the state to kill again. During his time in prison Shawcross allowed members of the media to interview him on several occasions. Shawcross also had several pen pals that he wrote to often. This week we discuss the life and murders committed by “The Genesee River Killer” and speak with one of his pen pals, John Paul Fey. John is the co-author of the soon to be best seller “The Shawcross Letters”Beer of the Week - Genesee BeerGarage Grade - 3 out of 5 bottle caps

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Brief Summary

Arthur Shawcross's brutal murders and his correspondence with John Paul Fay reveal chilling insights into a serial killer's psyche.

Key points

Quality Sleep with Ashley. Ashley offers top mattress brands at winning prices and special financing options.
Shawcross's Chilling Confessions. Arthur Shawcross shares disturbing details about his crimes in letters from prison.
The Investigation Intensifies. Police recognize patterns in the murders, leading to a focused investigation.
Arthur Shawcross Arrested. Arthur Shawcross was seen disposing of a body before his arrest, leading to his conviction.
Confession to Murders. After hours of questioning, Shawcross confessed to multiple murders, shocking investigators.
Shawcross's Sentencing. In December 1990, Shawcross was convicted of killing 10 women and sentenced to 250 years.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Every human looks the same after they're skinned.

A chilling statement from a letter by Arthur Shawcross.

6:41WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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