Ahmaud Arbery /// Part 2 /// 401 | Forensic Files

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joining us this episode we're going to dive in to kind of our thoughts on what we see and also possibly some of the
laws that are in place and where we think maybe this case will go and we're talking about the Ahmad Arbury case a
young man he was 25 years old he was shot and killed in February of this year on the
23d as he was running down a relatively quiet street in a quiet neighborhood he was being pursued by two or three white
men two in one pickup truck who were ordering him to stop these guys were armed and he didn't
stop and the result is Ahad has been killed and now we have these three men in custody yeah my my first question
when I saw any of this is you see jogger hunted down mhm and that's what I saw over and over and I went well this is
this is horrific and when you start diving in quickly you realize this is It's not as simple as the headline made
it seem my first question was was a mod jogging it seems like he was over 10 miles away from his house if he went on
a jog and he didn't drive somewhere to start his jog if he left from his house and he went to this location and he was
then jogging back this is a very long jog this would be a jog over 20 miles M this would be your you just happen to
run a Marathon that day so it's not that simple and then you see people like LeBron James or um Oprah Winfrey stating
you know that Ahmad was jogging now I know ahmad's mother claims look he he he did
jog this was something he did do he was adamant about his Fitness mhm is it possible that he was jogging yes but
what we see on camera on film what we can see is that he is walking up to a building to a house that's not occupied
and it's not uh fully constructed so if we go by George's laws there he's actually not
trespassing now a lot of people say well he was trespassing in the house uh and then he was
possibly stealing stuff from the house now we don't know that what we do know from the homeowner is
and from a Mod's own mother and family we have video footage that came out that shows a mod in the house looking around
now it's a 3 minute video they only released about 3 seconds of it I don't care either
way we have plenty of people do this and if you think they don't start asking your friends everybody that I've talked
to about this case says oh I've gone into houses that are under construction just to see the layout or just to kind
of see what was going on we have no garage door I don't think we have any doors on the property and if there were
doors on the property they were open mhm so by George's law you could actually go
onto the property let's say a front yard if I go on your front yard I'm not trespassing until you tell me I am
correct until you tell me to get off your lawn now it it becomes a thing of if you have
barriers now you have a let's say you have let's take the same scenario you have a fence in your front yard and now
I go inside your fence I'm immediately trespassing mhm cuz there's a barrier there was no barrier this this kid is 25
years old he goes into this property he's looking around so my first my first issue is you're claiming he's jogging I
don't know if that's what he was doing there maybe he was there to steal something I can't know his intent right
so I can't as an intelligent person I can't just go well I think he was there to steal stuff I've been in plenty of
houses under construction I wasn't going to steal anything so why would I assume that he
would so I'm not going to assume that but then I've also SE this is how ridiculous this case is I actually saw a
statement from not one person but multiple people that said that Ahad was interested in
architecture and that's why he was looking around give me a break these this is what I
hate most about what's happening in our society is people with agendas I want to
know the truth I want to know what makes the most sense not this wild speculation then we get into this whole
Avenue of we have a young man dead by the hands of two others three arrests are made but at
least by the hands of two others mhm and now we have to start talking about their
background oh well this one guy what well he was a he was law enforcement mhm that that to me doesn't have much
bearing on what happened in that moment and he's not law enforcement that day currently yes you know he's retired
he is he's just a citizen who happens to at one time have been in law enforcement
yeah so what I see is a a kid that goes into a building a house he's looking around he
doesn't take anything he comes out of the house it's not like he has a big screen TV
under his arm let's say he does don't care stealing a big TV does not equal death in my book but let's
just go with with what really happened so at some point I think a mod is spotted he
has some criminal background he's currently on probation he then takes off now in Georgia you have the right to
a citizens arrest and you're allowed to carry a weapon and I think this is the worst part of the whole
situation I'm look it's not for me to decide whether people should be allowed to carry
firearms but I've talked to plenty law officers that say look bringing your weapon out
escalates the situation immensely and that weapon then is not just your weapon it could become
anybody's weapon so what I see on film and what we hear from the 911 call is is he breaking any laws
no you know is he trespassing I guess he's not he's technically not trespassing and he's
technically not breaking any laws and you can't just determine intent and what I feel is that these individuals in the
neighborhood because there were cars being broken into and there was things happen in their neighborhood that they
have the right to protect their neighborhood well that that exact home that Ahmad went into and look here
here's the thing because what happens here when we do these shows Captain is people don't stay fluid they don't stay
they get too much in the moment right so there might be somebody hearing what you're saying now and they're reacting
and they've sent off an email or posted something on our blog please stick around to the end of the show because
you'll see that if you're a new time listener we often work through these things via conversation and work through
them over the course of an episode so are what you think you may be hearing now is not necessarily what we're saying
we're diving into the different speculation that's come out from all different angles and looking at things
the home that Ahmad was in and there's no question about that we even have his family saying yes that was him that was
that was seen on video inside this premises so nobody's denying that what I was clear to point out in the first
episode was there were break-ins in the neighborhood prior and we have the McMichaels on the on the phone stating
that it's the same guy we don't know that Ahmad was involved in anything other than going into that house on the
23rd of February correct there's and it would be dumb to say that he was so the thing the thing going on their job to
decide right the thing here that's difficult is that home that he was in that day on the 23rd had been Burg
burglarized in the past M there was missing property from that from that premises earlier and so the house was
being watched in a way it was under surveillance by the owner who had you know a a system like much of us do at
our own homes you know you've heard us advertis for Simply Safe and ADT before these companies are great they make
great products that you can monitor your home or your property and not have to be
there this man who owns the property actually has another property and lives very far away and somebody we don't know
who had gone into that home and stolen thousands of dollars worth of fishing equipment mhm so he has a system set up
so that he has motion detectors and when things are when motion is detected then
it videotapes it it captures the the uh person on video footage yeah and sometimes what happens with these houses
under construction is they don't set up barriers they don't set up um you know a
door with a bolted lock and and a garage door and things of this nature like you
think they would or should because those items then become broken so on top of whatever was stolen at the site they now
have to replace this other item so you see this a lot with construction I'm not in the business of
telling people what they're supposed to do what we do know is this this kid goes
in into this house looks around the homeowner says look didn't steal anything the first 911 call the 911
operator said okay but what is he doing wrong right but I I don't know I don't know oh black kid running black kid
running that well that's not something wrong now on the other side of things though stop saying he's a jogger he is
running away from a house that again is he trespassing yes no depending on how you
interpretate the law but to me yeah you're trespassing that's not your house you're not supposed to be in there you
didn't take anything no harm no foul but when you leave don't run away from it don't go
sprinting if you believe that you did nothing wrong if you didn't steal anything why you running away why you
sprinting away cuz that's what's happening it wasn't just oh well now back to my
jog but I but I also can't tell from the video footage if he's being pursued at that
point did he get out of the house and once he starts sprinting at that moment did a mod think he was being pursued by
somebody I don't know but we're only talking about what a couple minutes later that
he's lying on the ground with three bullet holes in him so again I don't want to assume that he was being pursued
right away but it seems like he could have been that would give him justification for running away from that
building so what I see is these guys chasing him they catch up to him then he gets
away and he has this moment he has this moment where he could to me looks like he could run free now I
say that lightly because they're in a truck so I don't care how much you're into fitness you ain't out running that
truck it's not going to happen right so I think these individuals caught up with
them multiple times and and that's a level of threat whether they have no clue what
your intent was they have no clue what you did or did not do and they're chasing this
individual as if he's guilty until proven innocent that is not their job that is not what Society appointed
upon them maybe they did at one time but not this day that's what I see I also see two individuals that yes
we don't know if this kid has a weapon or not but for you to grab your shotgun and to grab a what
357 mhm and for it to be you're just carrying them I don't okay let's go through a
hypothetical real quick if this was a police officer responding to the 911 call right MH uh this kid is in this
property he's not supposed to be in what does he doing wrong I don't know but now
he's running okay cop shows up chases Ahad down and says hey stop I want to talk to you and he keeps running now at
some point you're re you're resisting right at some point you're hindering the law the the officer has asked you to
stop felony fleeing yeah and you are not stopping he doesn't know what you did or
didn't do but he wants some questions answered and if that cop then drove up got out of his
Cruiser again I don't know if every law enforcement officer that I talked to about this case said you wouldn't get
out of the car and draw your weapon that's not what would happen you get out of the car hey
Amad I want to talk to you obviously you don't know his name but hey I want to talk to you
if that individual charges you and starts fighting you and you can't defend yourself off in
a game of fisticuffs and that police officer draws his weapon and shoots a mod he's justified in my eyes because
that is what society and that is what his County and his state has hired him to do protect and serve the community
and you would be doing that and once that individual attacked you by any means necessary you need to
Def defend yourself that's how I see it any charges to that officer no but that's not what happened that
day the cops were called and these citizens that have no Authority other than the right to citizen s's
arrest took the law into their own hands are they Justified because of the law I don't think so I think they'll be
charged with something but you mean convicted they have been charged yeah yeah I think
they'll be convicted of something but but it's a it's a tricky situation I don't know it's just uh it's frustrating
because I see I see a mod do things that I wouldn't do and then I see the McMichaels do things
that I definitely wanted to you know mhm and then I but nobody should lose their
life over this this just seems absolutely ridiculous well there in lies the sad sad and I mean I don't just say those
words I mean truly sad part of this whole case is that you know I actually look at this
thing and it reminds me a lot of a case that we covered not too long ago the Leo
Kenny case where we kept talking about a perfect storm and yeah I hate to use that term because if it were actually
perfect if we lived in a perfect world Ahad would still be with us today but what I saw in the Leo Kenny
Kenny case was a perfect storm of things two guys that were going to they were both on edge both were close to going
over the edge and they crossed path that day and the result was two dead men at the end of the day the result here is we
lost Ahmad 25 years old his whole life ahead of him it's look what we got going on here is it's it's it's incredibly
difficult we have a property that we know has been burglar in the past we have an uptick and crime in the
neighborhood at the same time we have video footage of a mod going into the home now here's where I think that
things get really gray and and sketchy very quickly MH what we have too is we have Gregory McMichael who is almost on
speed dial to be policing this neighborhood okay we've had guns this is another issue that's kind of hidden
inside the story there was a gun that was stolen from somebody's vehicle from someone's unlocked vehicle first of all
nobody should be burglarized nobody should have their property stolen from them however it's very it's lock your
door just in case especially if you got a firearm in there now I don't have any reason to believe that it would be
loaded but we we're living in a neighborhood with children it's very irresponsible of any gun owner to leave
a gun where just anybody can grab it m so for starters don't do that now I understand that there's an uptick in in
this crime in in this area as well and I don't mind that you have a situation where somebody is kind of policing the
area because I'm a big believer in neighborhood watch programs I think they do great things they do prevent a lot of
crime and really if the crimes had continued in this neighborhood in the subdivision for you know the next
several months that would be exactly what law enforcement would recommend to citizens of that area to create a
neighborhood watch program and it almost seems like they had that kind of going on here what you have is I don't know
the name of it but you have like these different Facebook groups I know in my neighborhood it's I think it's called
Next Door mhm where where it's not necessarily Facebook but it's it's a group in where the neighbors can talk
and communicate with one another about it could be something as simple as hey I need to hire a roofer does anybody know
anybody that's good and affordable right or hey there's some strange people that
have been wandering in the neighborhood hey there's people that are stealing packages off of this street on the rag
and so it's just a way for the neighbors to communicate with each other and keep
their Community good and safe and so that's what was going on here with this case there's people they're reporting
hey this this home was burglarized this vehicle somebody stole a gun out of it there's been break-ins there's been
thefts and everybody kind of knows this and they were posting some videos security camera videos uh from you know
ring doorbells and and different types of security cameras that were on there and and often in these videos it's
showing a athletic young African-American male mhm again we don't know that that's a mod there's there's
assumptions that are being made even in that 911 call you can hear it what is he
doing wrong well he's running on second and I will say this though if if somebody does go into a property that
has been burglarized in the past and then they are seeing running from the scene I can't fault the the the callers
100% because that does seem a little suspicious right it's a little fishy yeah but one of the videos that they
showed that they were saying well this is possibly a mod at night being in that house at a different day nothing was
taken that day so we have a footage of kids that were in that house little kids we have I believe a couple times where
there was couples that went in the house just to look around one thing that I see
what was being built one thing that I think is interesting here captain that uh most people may not be aware of the
video video that leaked out to the to the public there actually came from a lawyer his name is
Allan Tucker who informally consulted with the McMichaels he leaked the video because
of the rumors that were going around at the time of things people were saying you know it was two white men with the
Confederate flag in the back of their truck driving down the road that shot a jogger in the back and so really what
what ends up we say hey it was the video that really pushed the news along and then probably prompted the
arrest it's interesting that it was almost put out on their behalf to show that it wasn't you know some some
rednecks with the with the Confederate flag in the back of their truck that were were looking to hunt somebody down
that day so it's it's interesting that that came out that way and then it leads to I I believe it helped lead to to the
arrest of these two individuals I think what I see in the video that bothers me so much and one
thing that I think we're going to talk about a lot today on today's show is intent it's intent we talk about the
assumptions made on that 911 call that this guy Ahmad was burglarizing this home and you pointed out nothing no
property from that home was found on his person that day no drugs are alcohol were found in his system he was unarmed
being pursued by armed individuals it gets difficult because you have to understand the intent I
don't care it doesn't bother me so much to call him a jogger because I'm really focusing on intent if he told his mother
that day I'm going out for a jog I believe her I don't have any reason to not believe her say hey he just went out
for a jog now do we tell our moms and dads everything that we do no could he have been there casing The Joint could
he have thought about stealing something and maybe heard something outside and thought nope not today I'll come back
later there's a million different reasons why he could have been there what is IR responsible is to determine
and decide his intent we unfortunately do not know what his intent was that day or reason for being on that property
because Travis McMichael shot this young man to death he's not here to tell us why he went into that building and
that's what is supposed to happen in this world in our society that stuff is supposed to be hashed out in the court
of law and it didn't [Music] happen this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
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[Music] freedom all right cheers mates cheers the soothing sounds of the garage well it's
funny cuz I think sometimes when when people tune in to the show they go man you guys are seem real heated but I I
think I was yelling into my microphone I I okay one we're passionate about this stuff well one we don't want
anybody to die no right so so and but that's what our show covers every week you know and but it's the time that you
spend on this and to one of the things I try to do is to dive in and try to see all sides and try to get opinions from
all sides and reach out to people that are are smarter than me that have more experience than me like Law Officers
also when somebody go well why are you reaching out to a law officer well they've been in these
situations and every single law officer that I talked to I was shocked what is your thought process and
it simply just went back to yes do these individuals have a right to make a citizen's arrest yes but with
in reason and these guys brought guns to a fist fight and brought the fight to that
individual and again like like I said uh all of them said the same thing once that weapon is drawn that's escalating
the situation and it's also put in everybody at Jeopardy MH because that gun can
become anybody's gun M and but what I find sad about this case on top of the fact that this young
individual lost his life and that this happens too often especially in the young black
community I don't have the fear if I go out jogging in my neighborhood or riding
my bike I do not have some fear that somebody's going to mistake me for somebody and I'm possibly going to lose
my life I could not imagine what that would be like as especially a young black male and I don't know again we don't
know what was said to him when he was running away why they're chasing him what was said during the
confrontation it's not even clear I I've heard different reports but they say that yeah three shots and it all came
from the same gun mhm did it I don't know I'm I'm a little confused by why this individual that was following them
that filmed it why he was arrested but I I believe that there had to be then some
connection between well the the purpose of that is that there is proof that he tried to stop Ahmad as
well at one at one time he tried to use his vehicle to cut Ahmad off to apprehend him so here here's where you
have the issue right you well I don't know why I keep saying here is where you have the issue this thing is just
riddled with issues a lot of issues so this has more issues than my mother um the thing here Captain is we
got a big we a big problem with this citizens arrest so yes under Georgia law that that's the difficult thing intent
we cannot say anybody's intent if Ahmad was there burglarizing this property and that comes out to be a fact
then under Georgia law a citizen has the right if they have knowledge firsthand knowledge of a felony being committed
they have the right to hold or apprehend the individual responsible for committing that felony felony right so
if it was burglary if that was a Mod's intent then these guys who went off and pursued a mod they were in the right and
yes it's an open carry state so they are allowed unfortunately to have a gun and
just if anybody can see it it's not concealed it's it's perfectly within their rights within the legal boundaries
of the state of Georgia yeah then on top of that once somebody comes at them with
physical Force they are allowed to use deadly force to protect themselves but that in there lies lies a big part of
the problem right so if you can't just go plucking people off the streets and apprehend them right because when the
cops show up and they go well why did you pull a gun and and um detain this individual this other citizen why did
you detain them then the police can go okay well is if this guy didn't do anything wrong if there wasn't a felony
committed by this individual then the person who plucked him off the streets well well they can be charged with false
imprisonment right so it's a it's a sticky situation and I'm all for being my brother's keeper and I think that we
should we have to govern ourselves a bit in society but what is scary is this citizens arrest idea okay and I don't
come at me because there's going to be be people that are very strong minded that it's a fine thing to do maybe it is
but what I'm seeing here in this situation is how it can go very bad how it can go very wrong very quickly mhm
what we had here is two maybe three individuals that are not equipped to be pursuing a suspect they just aren't and
you can see the flaws in in what they were doing and this led to the death of aad maybe it's murder I don't know what
we what we're going to find Captain is if and when this thing goes to trial I'm guessing that there's a lot of
things that they're sitting on because here's here's the thing I I've almost done one of these citizens arrest myself
I arrest people all the time so let let me explain the situation I'll give you the very short version of it m it's
about 11:15 at night pitch black outside and I hear a noise this was probably two
years three years ago mhm I hear a noise I look out my window and I thought I saw
somebody messing with my next door neighbor's home I go outside to see what it is and yeah I brought I brought a
little uh little backup in my pocket right mhm I see a man attempting to go into the window of
this home mhm it's the middle of the night creeping so I I pull out my backup from my pocket now I didn't here's the
other thing too you'll see officers often no finger on the trigger even when they pull out the
gun because you want you want some time to make that decision is it exact is it the right thing to do no finger on the
trigger do I have to do this the other thing that I did was I did not aim I did not point this thing anywhere at him I
just pointed it toward the ground so he knew that I had a firearm and I said what are you doing are you breaking into
that home and he and I had a long discussion and eventually you know I have the the the
police on on my cell phone mhm who are in route but complete honesty dude if that guy would have taken off running I
wasn't running after him and you're not shooting him I'm not I'm not shooting him either but it it ended up being a
complete misund understanding my neighbor came home during my conversation with this man and explained
to me it was a friend of his who he had instructed to go in through the window because the house was locked up the
window was unlocked yeah but here's how it went down the guy's like uh I know the owner he told me to go through the
window and you're like at 11:30 at night my ass he didn't tell you that you you're
lying to me but what I'm getting at here is I don't know why but also you're at a
distance yes you don't you never like you pointed out when as soon as you have a firearm that gun can become anybody's
gun yeah and what you see is another flaw in them pursuing this young man they got up close to him most officers
know especially with a shotgun you don't get close to the suspect if you don't have to because it then almost always
becomes a fight for the gun I also want to point out some other thing that I hear a lot of people saying okay there's
a lot of people out there that are saying well why didn't Ahad just stop if he would have stopped none of this would
have happened okay let me point something out very clearly if I am jogging running whatever
I'm doing in somebody's neighborhood and two men in a pickup truck showing flashing guns at me tell
me to stop I'm thinking that there's a really good chance that I'm probably not stopping yeah yeah but okay I don't know
who these guys are are he doesn't know who those guys are yeah but let's play some Devil's Advocate okay here's this
this young man and he's on probation right and he's a law breaker this is what he is and he goes into this house
right and he's breaking the law and when he gets out of the house he realizes he's caught so he starts running because
he's on probation right mhm okay he wasn't breaking the law he would't get charged with anything if the cop said
hey just stay away from the house right probably wouldn't even you know they might look up his record and say Hey you
know this is a violation of your probation you got to be careful you don't want to do these things right
right but if it was a police officer and we'll never know but if it was a police officer maybe he stops
maybe he doesn't but once he starts running and he realizes not one truck but two trucks
are chasing in them and these men have guns you going to stop running or you going to run a little faster and then at
some point as they keep catching up to you fight or flight well the flight ain't working cuz that's the thing I
wrestled with when I first saw it I didn't fully understand that it was a mod that was charging at them right not
them charging at a mod right but they're the ones that are consistently pursuing
him so the charge if you will of this individual or the charge of a mod happened when
they're driving their truck to catch up to him and then getting out oh that didn't work get back in the truck catch
up with him you know I mean I would not know H how to respond um again now I don't think I
would have charged the guy with a shotgun but I don't know and also you're talking about
an individual that has to understand that guys like him have been shot in the back for running
away and the people that shot him got away with it that's a part of his makeup which look I'm not going to lie
that's not a part of my makeup I wouldn't even think that way I wouldn't I but also wouldn't have around from the
house I didn't do anything wrong I but if you're out jogging you may jog from the house I could jog from the house if
you're out for a run you may you may run from the house just because that's what
you were doing that was your intent that day just simply to go for a run or and you stopped off along the way right but
but what what we do have to me I see a Sprint from the house okay but again what I I'm going to go back to my other
point is that with the footage that we have it's not clear why is he running from the house it could be as simple as
oh [ __ ] there's some people chasing me already or there's PE people in pursuit
of me and what did he see cuz look if if if I saw two in individuals pull up in a
truck and I saw that they had guns I might start running but again I think it's like back to
their laws as far as Georgia Georgia's laws I here here's what I think will happen I think they'll make a deal and
people will be pissed off but one of the things that pisses me off is people use
things as an agenda this is a horrible situation if these guys were just trying to protect their neighborhood they made
mistakes a lot they made a lot of mistakes but I I don't know these two individuals we can't say if they're
racist or not and I think that that's a big problem too with this is that it again it goes back to intent if they
were these hateful racist individuals then maybe their intent was to go out and carry out their own kind of
punishment what I don't understand here is why you wouldn't have just continued to follow the individual even if he's
running from you you you know you have the police who are trained and equipped to deal with situations right they are
going to take a look at it and try to determine what happened instead you got these two guys who made all these
determinations themselves that day in the middle of the street why wouldn't you just continue to follow the
individual and then when the police catch up to you you can just go it was that guy saw him in in the property
that's my problem with some of this stuff though is like to go well these these white men killed this black boy
therefore it's racist and that's not that's not factually true we don't know and and like I said these guys made
mistakes that doesn't mean that these IND look these guys are going to be on trial for
something whether it's murder in the first degree second degree possibly manslaughter that's what I think they'll
be charged with or what they'll be convicted with or maybe even plea to but again it's not like we we have no
evidence that after it happened that they started cheering and then they went to the clan
meeting and said we did our job now but but then the problem too is it's people have agendas to
push and when a bunch of people go on look you can watch the video and be fr frustrated but I think it's
irresponsible when you're seeing post of man jogging in neighborhood is hunted down black man jogging in neighborhood
is hunted down by white men that's creating some agenda and that it's just not factually
accurate you know what I mean MH and then on the other side people going well these guys had the right to arrest him
and he was just a thug and he was on probation well yeah you're on probation but these individuals did not give him a
chance to live up to his full potential and and that's what I have a hard time with is just
like you know th this I don't know people pushing agendas I it just really bothers
me well well if anything can come out of of this that might be somewhat good I think we need to revisit this citizens
arrest yes thing because it gets we look this is where it went bad it went horribly horribly wrong that day and if
in fact if we are to believe the McMichaels which I'm I'm not certain that I do I don't know enough about them
to have a strong opinion one way or the other that's why I'm looking forward to the trial I think things
will be much clearer after this thing's at trial and I hope that there's not a deal that's done I want to see this
thing play out and figure out who these people were because again everything goes back to intent what was ahad's
intent that attent what was ahmad's intent that day what was the M McMichael's intent that
day they made the assumption that he was burglarizing the property they pursued him it went bad they r wrestled with him
for the gun they ended up shooting him and killing him in the street if he was just out for a jog this is terrible
again it's it's the whole argument yes you can say we have the da saying they were just defending themselves they were
using deadly force to protect themselves because he was fighting with them for the gun they're the ones that put
themselves in that position who's to say that Ahmad didn't feel like his life was
being threatened as soon as he saw the gun and he goes you know because some people say well he he could have ran
this way that way or the other way but instead he charged at them he may have thought his only chance at survival was
to take the gun that's what I'm saying and and and again we have evidence to somewhat back that up you're chased by
you're being chased by multiple vehicles and they catch up to you and then you get away and then they catch up to you
again how many times you going to do that with the whole time having the fear cuz
you know there's a gun you know there's a shotgun with the fear that you could be shot in the back because you went in
and looked at a a house and look even if his intent was to steal everything in the goddamn house even if his intent was
to go in there and by some hand of God miracle that he could lift the damn house up by himself one-handed and carry
that house back to his mama's house and say mama I I got my own house even if he was running down the
street with the house on his hand you have no right to shoot him dead it doesn't equal
murder and that's that's what's so frustrating here like oh well we thought we're in the right and oh yeah you
somebody breaks into my car I don't want them dead yeah I pissed off about it yeah but that's why we have a police
force right but I don't want them dead and that's why I think that the citizens arrest is can be a terrible thing
because it you have people that are not trained people that are not equipped to have any idea what to do in these
situations and they're out they're out playing Deputy again I mean in a perfect world
if if the McMichaels really thought he was doing something wrong that day just stay in your damn truck and follow the
guy whoever it may be regardless of skin color follow him and when the police catch up you called 911 when the police
catch up just point to the man the individual or the home that they ran into and say right the guy that we think
was burglarizing the home is in there and then the police go and talk to that guy and that's how these things are
supposed to play out that's how that's how these things play out when smart individuals are involved yeah but here's
the [ __ ] thing about it is here's the other evidence we have that these guys are just freaking morons they call
911 what street are you on oh we don't know I really don't know I think somebody could make some
real good argument that their intent was harm from the beginning because these are simple steps that you could make we
got in our car we know this guy is on this property we don't know if he's stolen anything we don't know if he's
armed so we we take our guns with us we don't need to take them out we're going to keep a distance in our truck we're
going to follow this individual we're going to call 911 we're going to say we're on this
road we're on this road you turned on that road and you don't even know what road you're on we're on this road we're
falling this individual oh now he's cutting through the houses he's going on to this other Road and you can assist
the cops in the arrest by using your telephone and it's just a shame that they didn't do that I
also think that if the cops came and talked to a mod that they like I said before I think they would have
let them go they I think they would have said look you know they they've had people break into this property they
have have had break-ins in this neighborhood and this is why individuals called 911 and this is why these
individuals followed you you're under probation you need to be careful and you need to go back home yep this regardless
of what the intent was we know the outcome okay we know he didn't have any property from that property on his
person we know he was unarmed and unfortunately the MC Michel are going to say and they have said this it's in the
police report they they didn't know either those things to be truthful you know they didn't know that that to be
the case in fact they did cite that a firearm was stolen in the neighborhood previously so therefore they thought he
could have been armed but you're exactly right Captain what the result of this whole thing should have been was the
police handle the situation that these citizens the McMichaels handed over to the police
they talk to the individ ual and like you said it should be a verbal warning a verbal warning is what should have came
out of this and that's what makes you sick to your stomach when you know what actually did come out of this it should
have been a verbal warning of look there's been some problems in the neighborhood young man I understand you
weren't doing anything wrong today but do know going forward we don't want to see you in that house right and going
forward none of the neighbors want to see you in that house they will likely call the police again if you go back in
there so just stay on the roads but hold on the other thing too is even a house that has no borders No
Boundaries once you're stated that that is trespassing then if you do it again it's trespassing I just want to
reiterate because I've been so mad all week that that people will take this crime right they'll take this scenario
they'll take the death of this young man and they'll use it to push their own godamn agendas well the agenda I'm
pushing is that they need to tweak that citizen's arrest deal they need to clean
that up because it's it's giving yeah but that makes sense unnecessary authority to individuals
that clearly aren't capable of handling it right but that makes sense because that's one of the reasons why all this
stuff happened that's one of the reasons why this young man died that's the agenda you should be pushing I actually
think that the law is pretty clear I think that it's it's just it the way that it's set up is it leads to a
misinterpretation possibly or or a gray area because what it states is that if you have firsthand knowledge that
somebody's committing a felony see that's where that's where this thing really needs to be analyzed from
because the McMichaels did not have firsthand knowledge that a felony was being committed they just didn't we are
sitting here what 80 days after after he was killed and we still don't know we don't know that ourselves nobody
knows that that a felony was being committed or not and that's what the law states if you have firsthand knowledge
that a felony is being committed well it's clear that they it's clear that they didn't have that well and all the
evidence points that it wasn't happening correct the home owner saying nothing was stolen well nothing was stolen but
but again though it goes back to intent if he entered the property with the intent of stealing something then it te
technically is burgy right and but you can't know the intent of a dead guy [Music]
correct hot in the hot tub going to have to cool down after this episode and you know everybody that
involved you know I think you know our hearts uh go out to a Mod's family mhm and I'm happy that it's going to trial
because I think that I have faith in the court system I think they'll get to the
bottom of this and figure out exactly what happened and handle it in the in a way that's proper and that if punishment
is necessary that it's handed out and um executed we should say yeah and I I would like to hear from people cuz you
know we're always constantly trying to learn and better ourselves and and every situation but to hear from you on the
blog again you know be adults about it cuz if you're not we delete those comments so until next week well I do
have a recommended reading oh well let's get on it and I actually think that it's
pretty fitting giv given the case that we covered this week so today we are recommending a book called fakes
forgeries and frauds by Nancy Moses look what's real what's fake why do we care in these times of false news
and fake science these questions are even more important than ever because they hold a mirror to the unsettling
reality in which we live fakes forgeries and frauds goes beyond the headlines tweets and blogs to explore the true
nature of authenticity and why it means so much today we will have that great title amongst some other very good ones
on our recommended page at true Crim garage.com and new songs from the show are added daily or being added daily so
you can check those out by searching for True Crime Garage on Spotify Apple music
Google Play all the streaming services until next week be good be kind and don't
[Music] litter [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
thought it was an Eco move few your worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic
must be a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service
instantly and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us so much more than
just a list get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today

Ahmaud Arbery /// Part 2 /// 401

Part 2 of 2

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This week we go beyond the headlines and offer up some of our opinions on a case out of South Georgia, the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery. Beer of the Week - Ghost Blimp by Tactical Brewing Company Garage Grade - 5 out of 5 Bottle Caps The full archive of True Crime Garage is available on the Stitcher listening app - for FREE. Our show “Off the Record” is only on Stitcher Premium. For a FREE month of listening go to http://stitcherpremium.com/truecrimegarage and use promo code GARAGE

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Brief Summary

The episode analyzes the Ahmad Arbery case, focusing on the actions of the McMichaels and the implications of citizen's arrest laws.

Key points

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True Crime Garage Introduction. Hosts Nick and Captain introduce the episode and share a beer toast to listeners.
Ahmad Arbury Case Discussion. The hosts dive into the details of the Ahmad Arbury case and its implications.
Leaked Video's Impact. A lawyer leaked a video that changed the narrative around the case, prompting arrests.
The Role of Intent. The discussion revolves around the intent behind Ahmad's actions and the assumptions made about him.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you.

2:07WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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