714: The Manhattan Alien Abduction | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this bees Morbids. [Music] This does be morbid. It does be. Um I
got CO from the meet and greet this week. >> Yeah, she did. I didn't. I did. And the
thing is I I knew I would. >> Yeah. Something inside told me. >> I walked out onto the stage on Sunday
like to the meet and greet and I was like, "One of us is going to get CO and it's probably going to be Elena."
>> Yeah. Cuz co just thinks I'm the tits. I'm great. Like CO's like, "Oh my god, I
love being there." >> It's because you don't sleep. >> Um it is because I don't sleep. Um this
isn't asking for unsolicited health advice. I I know I I don't sleep well because I have children and stuff and
family stress. >> Yeah, >> my immune system is [ __ ] >> Yeah, >> I'm trying to fix it.
>> But yeah, I get CO a lot. >> She does. This is like her fourth time. >> It happens. You know,
>> I've only had it once. >> She just knocked on the wall. >> Yeah, I did. >> I You better believe
>> a knock on wood. You're like the wall. >> The wall. Although I do I know that
you're like you're you have the good blood type, but I want to know what my blood type is. Yeah,
>> cuz I have a pretty root tootin immune system. >> Yeah, I mean I don't think it has
anything to do with blood type. >> Who knows? >> That was like a a thing people said
>> a past thing. I don't know. Um my immune system is far too focused on my IBS.
>> It's got to it's got to deal with that for >> which you know what I'm on a again like
you don't need to tell me advice, but I am going to start looking into how to cure I'm curing my IBS this year.
>> Quarter four curing my IBS. Quarter 4. >> It's October 1st today. Mark my words.
Q4. By Q1, IBS gone. >> Gone. >> I'm done. If I have to cut out cheese, so be it.
>> Oh man. >> I'm going to probably die a sad, unhappy death without cheese. But
>> you know >> that makes me sad. >> I know. >> I hate that for you. >> I got to figure it out. I got to figure
it out cuz this life I'm living not good. >> Yeah. I mean, I constantly feel bad for
your tummy. >> Yeah. It's chronic. >> And by association you. And it's so stupid. Like anybody with IBS that's
actually tried to figure out their IBS, you go to a GI doctor, they, you know, you have a colonoscopy, you want to die
in that moment, and then you wake up and they say, "You just have IBS." And you're like, "Oh no, that's crazy. Like,
what do I do?" And they're like, "I don't know." >> And you're just like, >> "Okay."
>> It's so true that that's like all they've done so far, >> literally. It's just like, "Yeah, I
don't know." >> They were like, "You probably eat really shitty." And I was like, "No, I I don't
actually. I eat pretty root and tube." They're like, "Nah, you do." >> And they were like, "No, no.
>> I think you do." >> And then you Google it and it's like, "Try to avoid potatoes." And I'm like,
"What? >> Never. >> I'm an Irish. >> Who's going to do that? >> Not me. >> Who's going to do that?"
>> Although maybe I will. Quarter quarter this quarter 4. >> Hey, I believe in you.
>> Thanks. I believe in you, too. Great pajamas over there. >> Thank you. I'm wearing silky pajamas
right now because >> I I'm sick. So, I'm wearing my pajamas. pajammers, >> you know. But my fancy ones,
>> they're nice. The color, they're like a jewel tone toned emerald, and they look
very nice with Big Red's hair over there. >> Thank you. >> I'm in a place of calling Elena Big Red,
and she is in that place. >> I can't be stopped. >> I can't be sad. >> I know other people are doing it.
>> Yeah, you guys can do it, too. >> You guys can all do it. >> Do it. >> Hey, weirdos.
>> I'm Ash and I'm Big Red. >> I'm still Big Red. Well, anything else that we're doing
quarter 4? >> Um, just healing from co >> COVID and various other things. >> And various other things. Um, but yeah,
I think it's it's it's October 1st. >> Rabbit rabbit. >> I'm I'm really ushering it in with as
much enthusiasm as I can muster. >> You actually are, though. >> I am. I've refused to allow October 1st
to happen and me just wallow in sickness. I know. I need to like I want to go home and make a yummy meal tonight
and do like a tarot pull. >> I know. That's all I want to do is make some food. >> Let's do it. Well, you shouldn't make
anyone food right now. >> Throw on a mask and some gloves. >> Yeah. >> Or I'll just direct John.
>> Direct John. Cuz John's like I No, you're not cooking. And I'm like I love it though.
>> I love it. >> I love it. So >> cook for yourself. That's a labor of love. >> There you go. I'll do it for myself and
I'll just tell him what to do for the other. >> I actually don't cuz I made you fina.
>> Oh yes you did. >> Yeah. I'm so excited for this. >> If you're ever sick, this is this is
medical advice. If you're ever sick, >> legit medical advice. >> Pastina. >> Yeah.
>> It's an Italian nona recipe. It's literally just like onions, celery, carrots, and garlic. And you like
immersion blend it all up and like broth. And then you put it over that tiny little star pasta called pastina.
>> It's a cure all. And if you're me, you pack it with parmesan cheese. >> It's true. And then I put extra parmesan
cheese on it when I make it. I like heat up. >> Big cheese heads for now over here.
>> It's true. Big cheese heads >> for now. >> Forever. >> Aster. >> That's sad. All right. Well,
>> forever. >> Forever. It is officially spooky season if you're listening to this. Happy. It's
no longer proctober. >> No, it's not. It's October. >> It's October. >> It's not goodie proctober anymore.
>> It's the most wonderful time of the year. That's my Halloween spit on the song. The most wonderful time of the
year. I like Thank you. I don't know what's happening. >> Thanks. >> You can't sing it Christmy.
>> No, you can't cuz it's Halloweeny. >> I'm going to blow my nose really quick.
Don't worry, Mikey will cut it out. >> That was That was a lot. >> I couldn't breathe out of one side of my
nose and that was getting very um >> upsetting. Okay, I'm back. >> Hi, >> Mikey cut that out.
>> What if What if he didn't and everybody across the nation just heard your yucky
snarf into your tissue? >> I don't care, but I would feel bad that you listened to it. Okay.
>> But it doesn't bother me. >> You don't care from a place of like self-conscious.
>> Yeah. I don't care at all. >> Good for you. >> It's a normal bodily function.
>> Yeah. >> But I wouldn't want you guys to have to endure it. >> Yeah. No, >> I care about you. Okay.
>> Big Red cares for others. >> I do. >> Do you care about alien abductions? >> I always care about alien abductions.
>> That's good cuz we're about to talk about one for for a good amount of time. >> Let's go, girls.
>> Today we're talking about the Manhattan alien abduction. This one I know very
little about, but I know of it. I am excited. I didn't know anything about this and Dave said, "Hey, you want to
talk about an alien abduction?" And I said, "I sure do, partner pal." >> Partner pal.
>> Partner pal. And he said, "Got it." >> So he said, "Got it. >> Got it." So in early May of 1989, UFO
investigator aka abducttologist I didn't know that's what they were called. >> I think that might be Bud's favorite
term, Bud Hopkins. Uh, he received a letter in the mail from Linda Napolitano. >> Napolitano.
>> I have to say it like that because that's how my guy um taught me how to pronounce it. If you ever look up
pronunciations and you get the French man telling you how to say things, >> he's right.
>> He's correct. >> Doesn't matter if he's wrong. >> Napolitano. >> Napolitano. >> So, Linda, she was a local woman. She
lived in Manhattan, lower Manhattan, with her husband and her two kids. Bud had never met, had never heard of Linda,
but it wasn't that weird for him to get letters from strangers out of the blue because he was a pretty outspoken
believer in extraterrestrial visitations. >> Hell yeah, he was. >> He was a known investigator of claims of
alien abductions. >> Hey yo. >> And two years before he had actually published a book called Intruders, the
incredible visitations at Copley Woods. >> Whoa. >> And that made him a regular on talk
shows and conventions that like those kind of things. So if somebody was looking up information on anything alien
related, his name was going to pop up. So Linda probably did that and then she found him. That plane is crazy.
>> That plane is like, "Wait up, landing." >> That plane is like, "Hold on, I'm an
alien." So Linda's letter to Bud was a lot like most of the other letters that he had gotten in the past, especially
since his book had been published. She wrote to him and she said, "I'm a 41-year-old wife and mother. I came
across your book, Intruders, sometime last year on a shopping trip. I read only a portion of it and then I had to
put it down. I felt overwhelmed with fear because pieces of a 22-year-old puzzle may have come together. I don't
know. I hope I'm wrong. >> Wow. >> So, she went on to ominous. >> It is ominous. She went on to explain
that since she was a kid living at home, she would regularly experience what she
originally thought were night terrors. She said, "At night in my bed, my body became numb and too heavy to move. And
then she said whenever the sensation would come over her, she'd close her eyes really tight, wait for it to pass,
but she always had what she said was the strange feeling that someone was there,
a shrouded or hooded person. >> You're having sleep paralysis >> or maybe I don't know.
>> Maybe there's crazy [ __ ] in this world and in others. >> You you are correct.
>> So she went to her parents, but they were like, "Yeah, you're having bad dreams." And she just continued to have
these experiences off and on for the next 5 years. She even went to a doctor later, she thought maybe she was having
some kind of health problem that was causing the numbness. >> Yeah. You don't know.
>> But after an examination, they determined she was in perfect health. >> So she got married to her husband Steve
when she was about 25. And that's when the experiences kind of started to taper off until they just stopped altogether.
But then one day, a few months after she had her first baby, she was looking at a
picture of herself and she noticed that her nose looked crooked, like it had been broken at some point. And she was
like, "Wait a second, why is my nose all crooked?" She said, "I looked in the mirror and I touched that area of my
nose and there was a small bump." So that sudden discovery caused her to panic. She hadn't had any health
problems since she had been to the doctor a few years earlier. And to her, it felt like everything had been going
well for a while now. >> Yeah. So, she immediately scheduled an appointment with a specialist to find
out if she needed to be concerned about this bump. And luckily, she was able to get an appointment in a couple weeks.
And she told Bud about this. She said he examined the inside and the outside of my nose, which was quite embarrassing to
me. and she said she was incredibly relieved when the doctor told her the bump was just cartilage that built up
after whatever surgery she had on her nose and there was nothing to worry about. Um, but that relief quickly
turned to confusion because she said, "I've never had any kind of surgery on my nose." And she said, "I've actually
never had any surgery at all for that matter." >> Interesting. >> So that didn't make any sense.
>> And she said he looked at me real funny and said, "I definitely had had surgery." So instead of going back and
forth, she was just like, "Okay." And then she left the office. She's like, "Sounds good."
>> So in her letter to Bud, she laid out experiences like these. And she told them she had pretty much come to believe
that what she was dealing with was some kind of contact with extraterrestrials, and she hoped maybe he would know how to
help her. >> Yeah. Later, Bud said, "Virtually every detail Linda recounted in her 22-year
saga of mysterious, disturbing events was familiar to me from other UFO abduction cases."
>> Damn. >> So, in his interviews with other AB uh abductees, the majority had described
having long thin needles or metallic probes, you've been probed, >> being inserted into their bodies. and
they felt like they had undergone some kind of like exploratory surgery. That sounds awful.
>> Yeah, it does. So, after reading Linda's letter, Bud wasted no time reaching out
to her and he was like, "We got to meet in person, girl. We got to talk about this."
>> So, a few days after they spoke on the phone, uh, Linda arrived at Bud's office
where they met in person for the very first time. She admitted to him that she only read the first 36 pages of
Intruders, and she stopped when she got to the part where Bud described two abductees having a quote tiny ball only
2 or 3 millime in diameter surgically implanted into their brains through their nasal cavity.
>> Oh, damn. >> Yeah. Given her experience with the ear, nose, and throat specialist, that
description terrified her so much she said she couldn't read any further. Oh, I don't blame her on that one
>> cuz she's like, is that what I'm going through? >> I don't want to picture that that
happened to me. >> So, after 14 years of bizarre and very terrifying experiences in the night, she
was now convinced that she had been experimented on and she was the victim of some unwanted surgery.
>> Holy [ __ ] >> At the time, Bud had been working with a pretty large group of abductees. Uh, he
was holding support group meetings in his apartment and he was doing one-on-one hypnosis sessions to kind of
unblocked memories. >> I love Bud. >> I do too. >> I don't know anything about Bud.
>> Look up a picture of Bud. He's an adorable man. >> What is his name? >> Uh, Bud Hopkins.
>> Bud Hopkins. >> Yeah. So, he was he was doing these hypnosis uh sessions one-on-one. He was
doing support meetings all in his apartment. Doesn't he have the sweetest face? >> He really does.
>> Right. >> Look at him. I love him. >> I hope he's good. >> I think he is. I think he really just
>> If he's not, I just I don't want to know. >> Right at the top of this, >> I think aliens are real.
>> Yeah. >> I don't >> I do >> know if they abduct us in the night and stick things in our brains. I think
>> I don't know about that. >> Pretty uninterested in us as a whole. But >> yeah,
>> you know, I don't know. >> Yeah, >> there's something else. >> There's something else. And I think it's
a little crazy to think that that something else is one thing. >> Oh, yeah. There's not one part of me
believe that believes one that we're alone in this universe or two that we have any [ __ ] clue what is out there.
>> Yeah. >> Like I think we have no clue. >> And it's I don't think it's just aliens
like you know like your typical picture of an alien. I think there's many things
that are probably in the universe and probably other universe. I >> So true. >> Mhm. According to Bud's wife, Carol
Rainey, who is also beautiful. Google her picture. Their apartment was constantly filled with abductees, all
hoping that Bud could provide some sort of psychological relief. And he really wanted to. I think his I think his uh
quest was pure. >> Love Carol. >> Carol's a queen. Yeah. So, most of the information about the abductions that
informed Bud's work came from the hypnosis sessions that he was doing with these people. And that's where he
developed his theory about extraterrestrial abductions of humans. Carol said they were surveying humankind
and intruding their lives in the same way that we intrude into the lives of wildlife that we want to track and
follow. >> Yeah. >> Which at its core is pretty simple. >> I was going to say very simple.
>> Makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Now, Carol, Carol Rainey was a documentary filmmaker at the time. She
mostly dealt with scientific subject matter and she said, "Before I met Bud, I was a UFO virgin. I had almost no
reason to understand what they were other than some mythical thing." >> I mean, yeah,
>> we're all there. That's pretty much how I feel. Even though at the time she didn't really know much about aliens or
abductions or anything like that, she had the mind of a documentarian. So, she obviously saw this as a pretty
fascinating opportunity. >> And so, she started to document Bud's work with the abductees. Um, and she
would record whenever she was given permission. >> Ah, >> and because of that, Bud Hopkins
investigations and his research actually became some of the most well doumented in the entire field.
>> Good for them. Yeah, they really did the damn thing. >> Sort of a power couple a little bit.
>> In later interviews, Carol remembered how excited Bud was after he met Linda and after he heard her story. She said
Bud was very, very taken with Linda. He described her as being an attractive woman in her 40s. He believed that she
was very, very credible and that she'd been traumatized. Me, I would have started a fight over
that. Yeah. If my mans came home and said, "I met this lady today. She's so fascinating. She got abducted by aliens.
She's attracted. I'd be like, because there there in lies the problem. You want to You come home and you say, I met
this lady today. She got I think she got abducted by aliens. It's fascinating. The story is wild. I believe she's
genuine. I think we can do something here. I'd be like, let's go. >> Yeah. >> Ride or die. Let's Where do we need to
go? Tell me what needs to happen as soon as you mention. And she's also wildly attractive. I'm going to be like, why
did you feel like that needed to be part of it? Why did you feel like that needed
to be part of it? >> Yeah, be toxic. Start a fight about that. >> Like, feel what you want to feel, dude.
But that didn't that didn't need to be part of that. >> Yeah, I was really >> Nothing about the alien abduction
requires her to be hot. >> I was really rooting for Bud and I still am. But >> I am, too. We all make mistakes. You
>> know, >> that's a little tick in his column. >> That was a pretty That was dumb.
>> That was That was a silly one. >> Yeah. >> And Carol, I hope she started to fight
over it. >> She's a real one. If she didn't, >> she probably did. >> Like, if I know Carol, I think she was
like, "Back it up. Back it up." What was that? So, here's the thing. He's very excited about this. And unlike many of
the abductees that Bud had interviewed in the past, Linda hadn't just been abducted once. Bud actually suspected
that she had a long history of abduct of abductions dating back to childhood. And
he was hoping that maybe they could unlock some of those memories through one of his hypnotic regression sessions.
>> Yeah. So, they did that. And during their first session together, Linda described a memory from childhood where
she was in her bedroom at her parents house. Later, she said, "What I saw at the age of eight looking out the bedroom
window was perceived through a child's eyes. To me at the time, it was something like Casper the ghost and
Christmas lights or a large toy top." Huh. >> Seeing it again during hypnosis as an
adult, I saw a different picture. It was a cone-shaped object approximately 9 ft
by 13 feet that glided across and over the rooftops of a multiple dwelling complex. This wasn't a dream, and I
wonder what all the other people thought when they saw it. I'm sure I wasn't the
only one. >> Interesting. >> That is terrifying. >> It's very interesting, too, cuz it's
like, what did everybody else think? >> Exactly. >> Yeah. So, in the months that followed,
Linda went back to Bud's apartment tons and tons of times to continue these hypnosis sessions in an effort to unlock
any kind of other memories that she had. And it seemed like every time they did one of these sessions, a new piece of
the puzzle revealed itself. Eventually, Linda was recalling incidents where she was transported out of her bedroom uh by
beings that she described as short, white, and dark with very intense eyes. In other sessions, she remembered being
examined by those entities in ways that made her feel very uncomfortable. In one
recorded hypnosis session, she says, "I'm outside. My night gown is above my head, and I wish they'd put it down.
They start saying things to me, and I'm yelling. He puts his hand over my mouth,
and then I can't talk anymore." >> Oh, I hate that a lot. >> So scary. >> I hate that a lot.
>> Finally, after multiple hypnosis sessions, Linda was able to recall an incident that would become critical to
her years of experiences. In the recording, she says, "They're looking at my nose. I can feel it." And then they
go to the right side and they're looking inside of there. And in hypnosis still,
she told Bud that the aliens were examining her eyes and nose with a strong light. And then all of a sudden,
she felt various parts of her body go numb all at once. Oo. She said only her nose and her eyes had feeling, and that
they kept examining her, and then they produced a tray of tools that looked like dental equipment. Oh, she said one
instrument had a long ball at the end of it or had a ball at the end of it, excuse me, and that the instrument was
long. She remembered them inserting this instrument with the ball on it into both
of her nostrils, and she said she didn't feel any pain. She told Bud they seemed
very pleased. And after that, she remembered being led down a series of hallways, and the next thing she knew,
she was awake in her room at home, and her husband Steve was asleep beside her. >> I hate that a lot. Yeah. So, up to this
point, Linda's experiences were pretty similar to others that Bud had worked with in his career. But that all changed
on the night of November 30th, 1989. It was a little past 3:00 a.m. and Linda woke up abruptly. She was very
terrified. By that point, she had actually she put measures into place before she would go to bed to try not to
get abducted. >> Can you imagine having to do that? >> No. And like I do feel for her having to
like explain that to somebody that maybe I don't I don't know how her husband felt about all this, but it's like you
you would feel a little crazy. >> So, but she would double check the locks on the doors, double check the windows
before she'd go to bed. She actually slept with a stun gun on her bedside table.
>> But when she woke up in that moment, she said she felt like she forgot something.
She said, "Then I realized I forgot to look behind the drapes." >> Shut up. I was like, "That's horror
movie [ __ ] >> Shut up immediately." >> She said suddenly she felt her body go completely numb like it always did when
she was about to get abducted. And she said she sensed a presence in the room just like all the other times.
>> She said she felt herself rise off the bed like she was being lifted from a sleeping position. And it seemed to her
that she was floating toward the window, then through the window and out into the
air. The [ __ ] Later during hypnosis, she said, "I'm outside. It's weird. I'm standing up on nothing and they take me
up all the way up. It opens almost like a clam. >> Huh. >> So, for Linda, this experience wasn't
super different from all the others. She was taken into an unfamiliar aircraft, examined by the beings, and then she was
returned to her bed. This happened a lot before. >> Yeah. You know, >> and the next day, she called Bud first
thing in the morning to tell him what happened. And he was like, "Get your ass here immediately. We are doing
hypnosis." Yeah. >> Got to document what we what happens in hypnosis. So she continues her hypnosis sessions
with Bud. She participated in his support group on a pretty regular basis in the year that followed and she was
really like slowly building out her memories and expanding the narrative and becoming more informed about what was
happening to her. >> Yeah, she wanted to be a part of it. >> Then in February of 1991, Bud got a
letter that would elevate Linda's case to a level of legitimacy very rarely seen by UFO researchers.
>> Damn. or abducttologists >> if you're nasty. >> If you're nasty. So, the envelope
arrived at Bud's apartment with the note personal and important scrolled on the outside. As somebody who dealt with
controversial and a lot of times very personal subjects, it wasn't that strange for him to get a letter like
that. But it was clear once he opened the envelope that this one was different. >> The letter read, "Dear Mr. Hopkins, my
partner and I are police officers. We have been in a serious dilemma because of our strict profession and our lack of
knowledge on this subject. Now, what followed was a two-page story that would forever change the lives of Bud, Linda,
and Bud's wife, Carol. Let's go. The letter was signed police officers Dan and Richard and described what was to
them a very baffling experience that they had had on November 30th, 1989. Oh, excuse you.
>> If that date sounds familiar to you, that's the night that Linda woke up after all her precautions, but she had
forgot looking behind the drapes and she drifted up outside of her window. >> Oh my goodness. I always wonder what the
odds are of this cuz when it's one story, you're like, "All right, maybe >> it's one story. Sure, like fun to listen
to, whatever." But it's these mass ones where it's like a bunch of people >> like what happened to the in the
Birkshars and stuff which we'll talk about eventually >> or even the one that you covered um
>> Betty and Barney Hill. >> Yeah. Betty and Barney Hill incident. >> It's like when more people are involved
and see things you just wonder like how >> Yeah. How if not UFO, why a UFO shape?
>> Exactly. That's the thing. Like it does make you think >> there's something. >> I think there is.
>> That's the thing. There's something. There is. [Music] So, according to the writers, they had
been out on patrol near FDR Drive in Manhattan around 3:30 in the morning when they saw a quote strange oval
hovering near or hovering over the top of an apartment building two or three blocks from where we were sitting. They
said they watched as the colors emitted by the shape changed from red to orange and then to blue. And they said things
got considerably stranger when the shape lowered towards a building and they watched as a quote little girl little
girl or woman wearing a full night gown was floating in midair in a bright beam of whitish blue looking like an angel.
What the [ __ ] When I first read that, I got chills. Okay, so we've taken it a step further. Oh, [ __ ] Yeah, we're not
just seeing the same thing. We're seeing other people's experiences that they have already talked about.
>> Yeah. >> So, what the [ __ ] >> They said from where they were standing, it looked like three smaller beings were
directing the woman into the oval. >> So, they said once they were inside this massive object, the thing changed colors
again. And then it disappeared into the Hudson River and never came back out. >> It disappeared into the river.
>> Into the Hudson River. They wrote, "On top of our fear of getting involved, we
were also carrying a load of guilt because we didn't help her and we don't know what's become of her."
>> Oh my god, these poor people. >> They felt guilty >> and that they were like, "We don't know
what's happened to her." Like, we got to help her. >> Is she in there? We never saw her come
out. >> Oh my god. >> So, according to the letter, the officers had spent the previous 15
months debating what they should tell anybody or if they should tell anybody about what they'd seen. And ultimately
they decided they needed to tell somebody what they saw. So they sought out somebody who might actually believe
them and that's what led them to Bud. >> That's unbelievable. >> So they also wanted to know if the woman
that they had seen had survived the experience. They said someone else had to see what happened that morning.
>> Yeah. I mean if they did >> Yeah. By the time he got the letter, Bud had just become accustomed to hearing
stories from supposed abductees that were unable to be verified by independent parties. So, it never
occurred to him that Linda's abduction could have been witnessed by other people.
>> Yeah. >> Uh even in New York City, the city that never sleeps, it shuts down for a little
little while. And Linda's abduction happened in the very early hours of the morning. So, he was like, I don't know,
like I don't think anybody saw it. But if these two police officers had witnessed the incident, Bud thought,
well, then it's entirely possible that other people might have seen something, >> of course.
>> And if they were out there, he was going to find them. >> Hell yeah, he was. So after he got the
letter from Richard and Dan, he called Linda and the two of them met at his apartment later that afternoon. The
letter was remarkable for many, many reasons. For one thing, it appeared to corroborate so many aspects from Linda's
account that she'd given Bud a year and a half earlier at this point. And they also correctly identified the
approximate time and location of the abduction. >> Wow. And they could do that confirmed
the color, the shape of the unidentified craft, the lights it admitted, and even
the color of the night gown that Linda was wearing that night. >> That's the part that gets me.
>> All the details are like check, check, check. >> So, at first, Linda was like, I don't
know what to make of this. And she said maybe they had seen somebody else who lived near her get abducted. She like
couldn't fathom that it was her. >> She's like, I don't know. Maybe my neighbor got abducted that night. He's
like, "Ah, maybe it wasn't me." And Bud was like, "I'm sure it's possible that maybe they saw something else, but it's
equally possible and more likely that they saw you get abducted. And if that was the case, these two were an
invaluable asset in proving the validity of these experiences that people have."
>> So Bud insisted that it was incredibly important they do everything they could
to keep their account of that night separate from Linda's. and he laid out a strategy where if either man contacted
him again, he would try to get their version of events on tape or at least written down. And he urged Linda, he
said, "If either of these guys reach out to you, don't speak to them. Just call me or Carol."
>> Yeah. >> Because that way they could ensure that no neither of the stories were tainted.
>> That makes sense. >> Which I was like, "All right, >> look at him doing real like
investigative work." >> Yeah. And I feel like that really proves to me that his his intent was pure here.
Yeah, cuz otherwise he would be like, I don't know, you guys can talk to each other and figure it out.
>> Yeah, he was really, like you just said, trying to do it like scientific way.
>> So, despite having agreed to Bud's strategy, just 2 weeks after he got the letter, Bud got a call from Linda, who
was very upset. >> Richard and Dan, she said, had shown up at her house a few hours earlier and
asked to speak with her. And she told Bud that she asked to see their identification, and they showed her gold
badges through the peepphole in her door. So, she was worried that since they were detectives, she couldn't turn
them away. According to Linda, one of them, Richard, was very nice, very polite, and the other guy, Dan, seemed
kind of angry and hostile, and she was actually worried that he might assault her if she wasn't fully cooperative with
so she was nervous. >> Yeah. >> So, Richard explained to her that they wanted to know how she managed to
levitate levitate outside of her window 12 stories up from the street. >> Valid question, I think. He said, "We've
been feeling pretty bad about what's happened." And he asked if there was anything they could do to help. And it
was at that point that she said there was. And she said, "Contact Bud Hopkins." >> Yeah. Apparently, she said that request
changed the tone of the discussion. They both made it very clear that their work
was of very sensitive nature and they wanted to remain anonymous. >> Okay. >> Selinda was like, "Okay, I understand."
And she suggested that maybe they could record their account of the event on an audio tape and send it to Bud at the
address where they sent the letter. >> Yeah. >> And she said Richard looked like he was
going to break down and cry, but they agreed to make a recording and then they left the apartment.
>> Okay. >> So, the letter that Bud received in the mail was one thing, but a recording of
the events in Richard and Dan's own voices would have been something else entirely.
>> Yeah. >> And again, it would lend a great amount of credibility to this case. But there
were still nagging questions that would need to be resolved if their evidence was going to be believed. Um, who were
they was a big thing. >> Yeah, that's a big thing. >> Like who are these two? >> Who are you?
>> Who are you? Carol said later, the entrance of Dan and Richard into Linda's story that was like a shot of
adrenaline. Whether they were policemen or agents, nobody knew. >> Ah, >> all they knew was that Richard had
identified them both as police officers in his letter. But then when they went and visited Linda, she said they were
detectives. >> Oh, okay. That's different. >> It is different. And now they're like,
"Who are these [ __ ] guys?" >> So now determined to find out the identities of Richard and Dan, Bud spent
the next few weeks just going from one precinct to the other, asking if they had officers or detectives or anybody
that matched the descriptions that Linda provided of these two guys. If the person at the desk said, "Yeah, they
did." Like, "Somebody looks like that here." Bud left a note urging them to get in contact as soon as possible and
just wrote how important the work was to humanity. >> Which I was like, that's really sweet.
>> I mean, it's true. >> It is. Yeah. >> Yeah. When you really think about it, >> he said it's important to humanity and
their participation was vital. >> So, >> he cares so much about this. >> He does. I think he seems like he was
afraid of what aliens wanted like or what he thought were aliens wanted with humans.
>> I mean, valid, >> which I understand. >> Yeah. So, not surprisingly, uh, he never
got a response from any of the precincts where he left notes. >> I'm not super shocked by that.
>> But just a few days after visiting one of the last precincts in Manhattan, an
audio tape arrived in the mail. >> Ooh. Bud did not recognize the voice on the tape, but the man indicated he was
Richard, the one who sent the letter and the one who was visited who had visited
Linda. >> Oh [ __ ] >> He said, "I suppose Linda's already spoken to you about our unexpected visit
to her apartment one evening. Indeed, it was very uncomfortable to say the least.
The subject matter was the strangest ever in my line of work. He was super sympathetic to Linda's situation and he
said, "I understand how important this is to you, but I can't get involved and neither can my partner." He said, "What
happened left us all victims of circumstance. After seeing her and speaking with her, we could see just how
frightened and sincere she was. Please respect the importance of our credibility at work. We just can't be
identified. we'd be laughed at. >> Wow. So, they're like scared. >> Yeah. They don't want like actual real
consequences to to this whole thing, which is also just like >> shitty. Everybody's just such a bummer
like that that everybody like treats each other this way still. >> Yeah. Like you
>> if someone's enthusiastic about someone and really like believes or something
>> something >> like >> let them be enthusiastic about it. >> Mel Robbins, let them
>> just let them >> let them. I feel like we all, especially adults, everybody gets too up in
everybody's like [ __ ] of and like judges people for enthusiasm about something
>> just because it's not their thing, >> right? Or because they think it's crazy.
>> Yeah. It's like I don't know. I think we just need to stop sucking so much. >> We probably should try that.
>> Yeah, >> let's give it a go. >> Let's try that. We haven't tried that yet. So,
>> not not collectively. >> As a society, we have yet to try not sucking so much.
>> I think we should give it a shot. >> Yeah. I think it's just one of those things. Give it a shot. See what
happens. >> One, two, three, go. >> All right, I'm trying. Let's see if you all are.
>> So, for Bud, the recording was an equal mix of excitement and frustration. >> Yeah.
>> On one hand, it seemed to prove that Linda was telling the truth about her abduction and everything from November
30th. >> But on the other hand, it was all pretty meaningless if these people these guys
weren't willing to come forward and identify themselves publicly and like go on record. Of course,
>> what he needed were additional witnesses to corroborate Linda's story. And to his
great surprise, that's exactly what he got in the weeks that followed. Oh, honey. So, like I mentioned earlier, by
the time he met Linda, 1989, Bud Hopkins had he already had like a fairly regular
media presence, especially when it came to UFOs, the subject of them. He did a lot of talk shows. He gave commentary
about his work. And bringing Linda into the fold only made him a more compelling
guest. And soon they were appearing on Haraldo, Oprah, like >> Haraldo, >> bigname talk shows. The higherprofile
appearances resulted in several witnesses coming forward to Bud to report having witnessed Linda's
abduction on November 30th. >> Oh my god. >> Ultimately, he collected Bud collected
22 statements from what he believed to be independent, reliable witnesses from all walks of life.
>> Okay. the statements uh managed to sway a lot of people who weren't sure what to
think of Linda's story, including Bud's wife, Carol, because at first she wasn't
sure. >> Yeah. >> She said, "The Linda case was fascinating to me because there were
numerous people who had seen her be abducted out of her window and up into that craft. Like the letter from Richard
and Dan, one statement after another seemed to corroborate her story. One woman told Bud, "I don't believe in
flying saucers, but it was a clear view. It was uh glowing, shiny. I just kept staring at it." There you go.
>> Others recalled seeing a woman float out of her 12story window and hover above
the ground. And some just kept it simple, saying, "We were scared. We didn't know what was going on."
>> I had no [ __ ] clue what was going on. I just knew it terrified me. >> I would be in that category.
>> Truly. >> Yeah. Like seeing a woman float outside of her window would be unusual enough
for a lot of people to remember. >> Yeah. I think I'd just be like, I don't know what the [ __ ] going on, but I
know I don't like it. >> I hate it here. >> Yeah. And here's the thing, like again,
seeing a woman float outside of her window, most people would remember that no matter what. Yeah.
>> But what also helped a lot of people remember with a lot of clarity was that the abduction actually coincided with a
blackout across that specific neighborhood. >> Ah, one witness called Janet remembered
that she was driving toward the Brooklyn Bridge and she just stopped to light a cigarette when all the lights went out.
>> I was like, that's like some [ __ ] out of a movie. >> That's terrifying. She said, "My first
impression was they're making a movie." And she said she remembered thinking, "What did they do to the bridge? It
didn't look real." But she said what she remembered most were the lights emanating from the object in the sky.
>> She said to Bud, "First it looked like an explosion almost because it was so red and white. That's what caught me.
And then the red subdued and it got white. Then I saw these balls. They all just tumbled out. And from the distance
I thought it was a little girl." >> Oh. >> Which is the second time now that somebody said that.
>> Absolutely. Another witness who was delivering newspapers at the time also remembered the blackout, particularly
because it allowed him to see also the craft of the lights in the sky with much more clarity. He said, "I'd been working
at the New York Post delivering newspapers out in Queens for almost 20 years, and on the way back, I could take
the bridge. I was confronted with a blackout, the truck dying, and all of a sudden, I saw a bunch of lights in front
of me. I didn't know what I was looking at. And then I saw what it was. It scared the heck out of me. And then I
saw a woman coming out a window. >> So it's like what? Like what the [ __ ] For Bud, the witness statements were the
latest piece of the puzzle that he believed would finally confirm beyond a reasonable doubt that aliens had visited
the Earth and were abducting humans for some kind of experimental purposes. >> Shit's going down. At the very least,
>> [ __ ] is going down in Manhattan. >> Some [ __ ] is going down. >> It is. But little did Bud know, the
statements were just the beginning of a much stranger story that would end up having personal, very serious
consequences. >> Oh no, Bud. >> So after almost 2 years of working with Linda, Bud had collected a very thorough
account of her history of abductions, mostly through those hypnotic regression sessions and the witness statements from
Richard and Dan and of course the other witnesses who had come forward. But by 1991, the question that remained was
what now? Yeah. like what are we going to do with all this? >> What now? >> They still hadn't managed to fully
identify their two most reliable and credible witnesses, Richard and Dan. And the other witness's statement, they
statements didn't seem like enough proof that would be able to sway skeptics and
critics. Those people wanted like verifiable proof, >> hardcore proof. Exactly. Now, that proof
seemed elusive at best. But then one day in 1991, Linda remembered a particularly
significant event that she somehow neglected to tell Bud in their two years of working together.
>> During their various interviews and casual conversation, she told Bud about how she noticed that bump on her nose
that really kind of started this whole thing. >> Remember the specialist examined her,
insisted it was something like scar tissue from a previous surgery. >> Yeah. But what she didn't mention before
was that just a few weeks before her abduction on November 30th, Linda went to visit her niece Lisa Bear, a
podiatric surgeon in Pikipsy. So it's like a foot doctor, foot doctor, foot doctor. While she was there, Linda told
her niece about what the doctor said about the nose surgery. And she also was telling her about frequent nose bleeds
that she kept getting. >> Dang. >> So seeing that the situation was causing her aunt a lot of distress, Lisa
suggested that she take an X-ray of Linda's nose. So, at the very least, she could set her mind at ease about any
potential illnesses. And what they discovered was shocking. >> According to Linda, she said the only
X-ray machine had in her office was the one she used to x-ray people's feet. So,
she had to get down on the floor and stick her head under the machine in order for Linda to capture the image.
>> And after Lisa took the X-ray, Linda had to leave to catch a train. So, she wasn't able to go over the results with
her niece. >> Okay. A week passed without any word from Lisa. So Linda Linda just assumed
that the image didn't show anything or you know didn't amount to anything. But years later in discussing the X-ray with
Bud, Lisa said it's not a perfect picture, but when I developed it, I was stunned when I saw the thing in the side
of her nostril. That's Lisa said that. I think I said Linda. Lisa said I was even
afraid to use the phone to call her and tell her about it. >> Oh man. The X-ray shows what is very
clearly a human head in the pro in profile with a focus on the front of the head. And in one of the nasal cavities,
there appears to be a small metal coil that almost looks like a spring with like a a ball cap, a ball or like a cap
on on both ends. >> What the [ __ ] >> In his book about the case, Bud describes the object as a complex radio
metallic object. >> What? So she like had some weird [ __ ] in her nose. To Bud, the X-ray was exactly the kind
of irrefutable evidence that he thought would sway skeptics and prove his theory
about aliens interfering with humanity. >> Yeah, cuz why the [ __ ] is that in her
nose? >> Yeah, what the hell? But before they could celebrate the discovery or make
plans to go public, another incident with Richard and Dan set things off into a very frightening direction. or nor
>> since her first meeting with the mysterious Richard and Dan more than a year earlier, Linda was sure that they
had actually been following her and like surveying her. >> Oh, >> she even started carrying a gun for
protection. She was so scared. Every now and then she'd be walking down the street or waiting for a bus and she
would see a man resembling Dan following her or waiting behind her on the corner.
>> Ew. >> And when she was at home, she said she was convinced they bugged her apartment.
>> Oh, [ __ ] that. Bud also started to believe that the FBI was watching the both of them and monitoring their
movements. And he went as far as borrowing what Carol Rainey described as high-end equipment from a friend who
worked in security, which he used to sweep his and Linda's apartment for bugs, but they never found any bugs.
>> What the [ __ ] >> So things came to an alarming head in late April of 91, not long after Bud
first saw that X-ray of Linda's nose. By that time, he insisted that Linda wear a
wire and a recording device in case she had any run-in with Richard and Dan. >> Damn.
>> And on the afternoon of April 29th, Bud was at home and he got a call from a very frantic Linda. She said, "Bud,
Richard and Dan abducted me." What? Abducted her? Like, I've been kidnapped. She said they
eventually they let her go, but yeah, they had abducted her. They abducted her. She said she had just put her son
Johnny on the school bus that morning and was walking to the grocery store when she heard somebody call out her
name. She turned and she saw that it was Richard. She said he was smiling as he walked toward her and that just behind
him in a black Mercedes she could see Dan. She said Richard was pleasant and he asked if Linda would mind going for a
ride so that they could talk. She said there was no way I was going to get in a car with him. So, she declined and she
started to walk away. And she said she barely stepped off the curb to cross the street when she felt a strong hand grip
her arm and pull her in the direction of the car. What the [ __ ] She said Richard
sort of twirled me around with my back facing him and then marched toward the car and pushed me into the open door of
the back seat. I'm horrified. >> Scary. It's like also >> that's a crime, babe. >> That is a crime sort of. And it's also
very like Men in Black. >> Yeah. You can't just abduct people in [ __ ] broad daylight.
>> You really can't. It's >> or at night. You shouldn't do it at all >> ever. Really?
>> Or even like midday sun, >> dusk, don, anything in between. Don't do it. >> You just can't do that.
>> No. >> So, in her call with Bud immediately after the incident, she described very
bizarre behavior that Richard and Dan exhibited. She said, "He told me to take my shoes off. They wanted to see my
feet. I think they wanted to know how many toes I had." And then she said she got the impression
that they suspected she was some kind of alien human hybrid and they were looking
for proof. She said in that moment >> I'm trying not to yuck anyone's yum cuz I just told you all not to do it. So
>> don't yuck Linda's yum. >> I'm just going to go with this. >> I don't even know if this is her yum. I
I don't really know what this is. So in that moment she said she had the sense to start the recorder that Bud gave her.
And on the recording you can hear a faint argument between Linda and an unidentified man. What the [ __ ]
>> On the tape, the man is accusing Linda of recording the conversation. And she's
like, "No, this it's not on. It's not recording. Like, I just have this." But what's not caught on the tape is the
moment where Linda pulled the gun from her purse and pointed it at both of them.
>> Shut up. >> She said this caused Dan to pull the car to the side of the road and they let
Linda out and she just ran home and called Bud immediately. >> What the [ __ ] >> So, after hearing Linda's story, Bud was
like, "Oh my god, you need to come over here. like, "Are you okay?" And he said,
"We should also do a hypnosis session to see if we can document some details of the event that might help us finally
identify these two fuckers." >> As luck would have it, during the hypnosis session, Linda did recall some
details about the car. During the session, she realized it wasn't a Mercedes, but it was a Rolls-Royce with
diplomatic plates. What? She said she also remembered seeing a decal in the window with the
United Nations logo on it. Shut the [ __ ] up. By that time, uh, Bud and Linda had
deduced that Richard and Dan were not police officers or detectives like they previously thought. Bud now strongly
suspected that they held some kind of position of authority, like even more. >> So now he wondered if it was possible
that they were like private security for a diplomat or or maybe a member of the United Nations or they were, you know,
like part of that themselves. >> Yeah. So, in the days that followed, Bud and Linda reviewed video footage of
recent events held at the United Nations building. And in one, Linda claimed to recognize one of the men in the
background as Dan. >> What the [ __ ] >> The men in the man in question was in the company of uh I'm so sorry if I
butcher this. I looked it up. He was in the company of Javier Perez Duayar, who was this uh Secretary General of the
United Nations. >> Damn. >> Like big [ __ ] deal. Like big deal. But like big deal, big guy, huge, big.
So in the weeks that followed, Bud, Linda, and now Bud's assistant, Peter, set about trying to find the identif the
identities of the man in the video and what his relationship was to the [ __ ] secretary general of the United Nations.
>> Yeah, I'm curious. >> But um crazy their inquiries at the UN and the UN security buildings, which
included Bud and Linda posing as a married couple, ultimately went nowhere. >> Wow. The UN wasn't about to be like,
"Yeah, that's exactly who this is." >> Shocked. Crazy. >> Shocked. >> But a short time later, Bud got a letter
from Dan that shed some light on the situation. >> Peter said they explained to Bud that
they were not police officers, but federal agents acting as protection for a very high ranking, well-known
diplomat. What the [ __ ] So now they figured that the important man in question definitely was Perez D. Quar
>> of course, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> For Bud, >> I know. >> You know, >> you better believe I know.
>> For Bud, he felt like all the pieces were falling into place. He was finally onto something big. And as a result, the
relevant government agencies had taken notice and were now on their trail making sure that Bud and his associates
didn't expose anything that would create like mass hysteria or mass pandemonium,
you know, >> which like at this point in time, do we really could we is this so far-fetched
at especially now? >> That's the thing I >> in these tier streets in 2025. >> I understand why Bud felt like this.
>> I understand it now. Like maybe back then people were like, "Yeah, no, that sounds crazy." Like the government
doesn't do that. >> Yeah. >> Like why would highranking officials want to quiet things?
>> That's not what >> But now Yeah. Yeah. You just never know. [Music] So the knowledge that they were being
followed and you know were probably potentially in danger probably should have put them off for a little bit.
>> Yeah. >> But for Bud it was exciting and it proved that he was on the cusp of making
the biggest discovery of >> I mean his career and something that the modern world had never seen.
>> So Linda hadn't just been abducted and had a metallic device implanted in her
nose. Now she'd been experimented on, possibly sexually assaulted by the aliens. And now maybe they were trying
to create some kind of hybrid species, >> which that's [ __ ] horrifying. >> Yeah. And now there were like
terrestrial threats to worry about. They were scared about Richard and Dan and these high people in high positions
trying to silence them. >> I would be. >> So as the years went by, Linda's story
continued to expand and eventually she even incorporated her son Johnny, who she now believed was also abducted.
>> Ooh. >> And over time, Bud got closer to Johnny and wanted to help him understand his
experiences. Just as he had with Linda. >> Yeah. >> But Carol, remember our girl Carol?
>> Of course I remember Carol. >> She remembered one night when it occurred to Bud that the aliens weren't
only interested in individuals but possibly bloodlines. >> Oh, which >> I'm into this.
>> I can kind of understand. >> Yeah. you when you really think about it, like I kind of if you're really
looking into like aliens and what they want from us, it would make sense that yeah, maybe they would want to study our
bloodlines to see what happens as we go on. Hey, I get it. >> But Carol said Bud was wiping his eyes
in full understanding of what Linda had talked about, that the aliens were also traumatizing her children. I became very
concerned that he was so emotionally attached. My alarm bells went off. I felt that Bud risked losing his
objectivity. M >> which I get. >> And remember, >> Linda is like such a huge part of Bud's
life now. Then I can understand why Carol was like, "Okay, like we're falling a little too far into this."
>> Yeah, I can understand that. >> And like now a child is involved and like we got to really think about what
we're doing here. >> Yeah. She's just trying to be pragmatic. >> She is. I love that word.
>> I do too. So, Carol had never been a believer in the same way that Bud was, but she was always willing to give him
and the people who came to them the benefit of the doubt, >> which is a which is a good partner.
>> It is. And she especially gave people the benefit of the doubt when there was
evidence that popped up that seemed to support their claims. >> Really smart lady.
>> Yeah, she I honestly think she really was. But after years of working with Linda, Carol saw a change in Bud that
was deeply concerning to her. She said it seemed like he lost the ability to think critically when it came to
>> interesting. >> So she Carol herself, she had grown up in a very heavily devout Christian sect
that kind of bordered on being a cult. >> Whoa. >> So she saw the harm that blind faith can
cause. >> Yeah. I mean if anybody can >> Yeah. She had serious experience when she was a teenager. She actually got
thrown out of her parents' house and excommunicated from her entire community because they told her she was asking too
many questions about their religion. >> Oh, there it is. >> They were like, "Yeah, like you're
threatening the structure of our >> Yeah, we don't want you asking questions or critically thinking.
>> Yeah, don't do that. >> That's dangerous." >> She said, "After, you know, a year of my
asking increasingly unwelcome questions, my father stood in the middle of the living room and he said, "You're not my
daughter anymore." >> You got to be a real piece of [ __ ] to do that. >> Real piece of [ __ ] You got to be a real
monstrous piece of [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> There's nothing my kids could do that they wouldn't be my children anymore.
>> No, they're always your [ __ ] kids. Like >> they're always welcome back here.
>> Yeah. Like what the [ __ ] >> Like I don't give a [ __ ] Like that's [ __ ] up.
>> That's a story for another day. >> So it's my opinion. It's my opinion. >> So despite that experience or honestly
really probably because of it, Carol devoted her adult life to science and to reason and she prided herself on her own
skepticism. >> Good for her. ask the [ __ ] questions. >> And here's the thing, >> nothing's wrong with that.
>> I honestly think she went about it in a very respectful manner. >> It sounds like she did.
>> She was willing to hear people out and she wanted to hear their evidence and when there was evidence, she got even
more interested and asked more questions, but she also had a healthy amount of skepticism.
>> Exactly. You know, which I think is the smart way to go about everything. >> I think so, too. So, at first, she was
obviously fascinated by Linda and Linda's story. She found Linda to be, she said, dynamic, engaging, personable,
exactly the kind of person a documentary filmmaker would want on camera. >> Yeah.
>> But she said at the same time, her story did seem credible. In the beginning,
there were nearly two dozen witnesses who corroborated the story. Carol literally saw the letters herself from
Richard and Dan that seemed to support the belief that Linda and Bud were being monitored.
>> But she said after a few years, there was something about the story that started to nag at her. She said it felt
like every time, and she's talking about Linda, she said it felt like every time
she went out to grocery shop, something strange happened to her. The story just kept on rolling.
>> Yeah. Which I get, >> which I I would question that. >> And you know, if Linda's story had been
contained and maybe only affected her, it probably wouldn't have bothered Carol so much. But Bud was now drawn so deeply
into like >> at this point a very bizarre conspiracy >> that it wasn't just threatening his
professional reputation but also his physical health. >> Yeah. And I get that. >> And the thing that really pushed Carol
to the edge, she said, was when Linda started incorporating Johnny Johnny, her son, into the conspiracy.
>> Yeah. See, that's where I would take a big step back. >> Yeah. So, she didn't really have a clear
plan or a strategy at first, but she did what felt most natural to her as a documentarian. She went back to the very
beginning and she reviewed all the evidence piece by piece. >> Good for her, man.
>> From the moment Linda entered their lives, remember, Carol had been filming everything. And Bud and uh Bud had
actually been recording their calls like with permission. Yeah. So, there was countless hours of telephone
conversations, group sessions, hypnosis sessions that documented almost every moment of Linda and Bud's relationship,
which is kind of crazy. >> Yeah. Now, the first thing that jumped out at Carol was Linda's demeanor, she
said during the hypnosis sessions. After years with Bud, Carol saw countless people hypnotized, and she was familiar
with like the drowsy, incoherent state that they usually got into during the process. She said though that Linda's
hypnosis sessions were different. Carol said, this is her words, "She didn't sound the way others did when they were
deep down. She had a clear, coherent narrative. I just didn't believe she was under hypnosis.
>> Interesting. >> The other thing that emerged during her review of the years of the tapes was the
way that Linda's story took shape throughout the years. >> Yeah. >> She said to me, it began to seem almost
too perfect. And it occurred to Carol that whenever Bud started to direct his attention somewhere else, Linda always
seemed to have a way of reeling him back in with some outrageous detail or event
or, you know, going zones. She knew she could get him. By the time that Bud's book about the incident was published in
1996, the story had become so outrageously unrealistic that it seemed impossible that anybody would believe
it. Carol thought. >> Damn. She said it was paced like a thriller full of otherworldly treachery,
forbidden love, UFOs over Manhattan, lusty and dangerous secret service agents, a prince from afar, more
forbidden love, an X-ray alien implant, and her abduction into a spacecraft accompanied by a famous mafia dog. Like
she was Carol really got to Carol got to a place of come on >> of come on, >> come on. And and this is her husband, so
I can see why she's a little bit like >> miffed. Oh, I'd be pissed. I I'd be far
past miffed at this point. >> Exly. Well, listen. During the early phase of her investigation, while she's
gathering this all up and starting to be like, "Yeah, right." She kept her thoughts and her activities, of course,
to herself. She didn't want to upset her husband. She didn't want to interfere with his work. She had a respect for
him. But after going over the tapes and kind of coming to some pretty convincing
conclusions, she finally decided that she couldn't keep this quiet any longer. Especially, remember, now that there was
a kid involved. Yeah, >> but unfortunately if Carol was expecting Bud to be receptive even a little bit to
her critique, she was about to be very disappointed. >> Oh no, Bud, I was rooting for you.
>> I know. She said, "At that point, I was kind of seeing a lot of these stories as
being made up, invented. Bud didn't pick up on it because she was delivering material that he so badly wanted for his
new book." >> Bud had invested years of time, money, emotion into Linda's story. And as far
as Carol could tell, he needed the story to be true at this point. Yeah, >> not only for the book, but because he
had built so much of his theory about everything else on things that happened to Linda since
>> you never want to put all your eggs in one basket. >> And he very much was. And Carol was
honestly like I think Carol not only like loved her husband and respected her husband so much, but also respected the
way he went about his work. So when she saw him kind of veering off his path of like pure let's look at this
scientifically and let's do this the right way and like you just said kind of putting all his eggs in one basket. She
was like you're veering off course here. >> Yeah. Like you're losing yourself. You're losing who I know this like smart
guy who sto. >> Yeah. So, she knew that if she wanted to convince Bud to be more skeptical of
Linda's claim, she was going to have to attack the evidence that corroborated the story, especially those witness
statements and specifically the letters from Richard and Dan because those were the thing that really sent Bud like
>> Yeah. >> into orbit, you know, >> which like you get why he got so excited and,
>> you know, encouraged by that. >> Linda is saying and and here's the thing. I don't know.
>> Yeah. I don't know her life. I'm just telling you all sides of the story. Yeah.
>> But like I get why Bud believed what Linda was saying and she's got things to
back it up and letters are coming in and this that and the other thing. >> Exactly.
>> So, we're on Carol's side right now, though. So, to Carol, it seemed unlikely
that all 22 witnesses were lying. But when she went back and reviewed the interview interviews that Bud had
conducted with them, it occurred to her that maybe Bud had a larger influence on
their statements than he meant to. M >> she said most of the witnesses admitted that they hadn't got a direct look at
what they later claimed was a UFO and a lot of them weren't really reliable to begin with.
>> Uh for instance, there was an elderly woman who said she saw the abduction from her window, but she also said her
view would have been obscured by multiple large objects. So like, so like she really wasn't able to. So like what?
>> And all at the same time, Bud's enthusiasm could have easily acted as confirmation bias.
>> Oh, 100%. >> Which would drive interviewees to provide him with what they thought he
wanted to hear rather than >> trying to make this guy happy. >> Exactly. Rather than what they saw. And
finally, there was the source of the witnesses themselves. All of the witnesses had only reached out to Bud
after more like at least two years or more after the supposed abduction took place and only after the story had gone
public and they'd seen it on like Oprah and Heraldo. >> Yeah. And that's always >> that's not great.
>> That that you have to take with a grain a giant grain of salt. >> And there was also the matter of the
letters from Richard and Dan. their position in the story. Remember, it gave credence to Bud's belief that these
large government agencies were working to undermine his research and he thought that the agents had been harassing him
and Linda for years. >> Yeah. >> The problem for Carol when she started looking back into this though, all the
letters had been typed out on a typewriter, so there was no way of knowing where they came from or who'd
written them or anything like that. But one day she was sorting through evidence
and she found that one letter claiming to have been written by Javier Perez Duayar, the Secretary General of the
United Nations, >> of course, >> included a handwritten signature that she could use to compare to a sample of
Linda's handwriting, which they obviously had. >> Oh man. >> And she brought it to a handwriting
specialist. >> Oh man. Among other things, the handwriting analyst concluded that the
sample from Linda and the supposed signature of the Secretary General of the United Nations were virtually
identical. Oh no, Linda. >> Linda. Oh no, Linda. >> But remember, just to to play devil's
advocate here, I don't know why I said devils and not devils. >> To play devil's advocate.
>> So just sit here and play devil's advocate. handwriting analysis is not it can be a
little bit of junky science. >> That's the thing. Like I'm not saying it's not real, but it's not always real.
>> But it's just like maybe maybe >> So in 2023, Carol told a documentary crew, "The person who replicated Duo's
signature is the same person who's written the letters from Richard and the letter and the letters from Dan, and
that is Linda. Richard is an invention of Linda's, and so is Dan. >> Oh no. You know, in my heart of hearts,
I wondered. >> You wondered? >> I didn't want it to be true. I wanted it to be that they were real and they saw
her flying up into a UFO. >> I wanted that so bad. I wanted it really excite every part of
>> You can see why a lot of people would want it so bad. >> It's [ __ ] exciting.
>> Yeah. >> After all, she learned though, Carol came to the conclusion that Linda had
read Bud's books and knew exactly what he was looking for. that made her easy to manipulate him, especially after he
became very emotionally and also financially invested in the case. So, Carol Bud with everything, including the
handwriting analysis, >> but she said he refused to believe anything she brought to him. And years
later, after the book was published, he continued to support Linda and defended her story.
>> Here's my question. So, >> we're about to I think we're about to answer it. Okay, I think we're about to
answer it. >> Okay, cuz I'm I'm sitting here and going, "No way. No way." >> That's Carol got there, too.
>> Okay, so after the publication of Witnessed in 1996, uh, which obviously was the whole like
>> Linda abduction story and everything, >> Bud and Linda continued working together
to promote the book. They appeared on talk shows, conventions all around the country. And during that period, Bud and
Carol's relationship continued to to decline until they finally got divorced in 2006.
>> But they held on for like 10 more years. >> Damn. >> I mean, who who knows how long like the
divorce took to become final, but >> damn. >> Yeah. Carol said, "I felt that Bud had
lost his objectivity. I don't know if it was through the Linda case or earlier than that. I couldn't respect what I
heard him do to people who were vulnerable. I was literally sick of the whole business and the only thing I
could do was to speak out about it. Carol. >> Carol. >> [ __ ] Carol. >> Carol. >> Honestly, Carol's a bad [ __ ]
>> She really is. She's for science. >> I love Carol. >> I love Carol, too. >> I really love Carol.
>> She's a writer. Um, we should look more into her. Carol writing. >> Carol. Carol
>> and a documentarian. >> Carol. Yeah. >> And a scientist >> forever. >> She rocks.
>> Queen Bee. >> So, after his divorce from Carol, Bud started a relationship with UFO
ufologist. UFOologist. >> That's what that's what last podcast on the left callologist.
>> I don't know if that's right or not. >> Shout out to the boys, >> but that's what they say. And it's it
makes me laugh every time. >> Andor abducttologist. Uh he started a relationship with a woman named Leslie
Keane who shared his interests. >> Okay. >> And they remained together until Bud
passed away in 2011 from cancer. Aw. So, for more than a decade, Bud touted the major significance of Linda's case, but
he did eventually move on to other subjects, and Linda just kind of faded back into regular life.
>> Wow. >> Yeah. In the years since, she's been on a handful of TV shows about, you know,
alien objections, and she gives interviews every now and again. And to this day, she stands by her story, and
she maintains that every aspect of it is true to the best of her memory. >> Okay. Hey, I'm not here. I wasn't there,
so I'm not going to sit here and tell her that she's wrong. I am going to in inquire
um about what was going on with Bud. >> I don't know. >> I I I'm a little I'm like, what was
going on there? >> I don't know >> what was I don't know cuz I wasn't there. >> Maybe they were just good besties.
>> Yeah, it's just my question of like what was what was going on there. >> I don't know.
>> But again, I know nothing. >> Me either. So, >> well, after her divorce from Bud in
2006, our girl Carol continued working to debunk Linda's story and she really wanted to expose Linda as a fraud,
>> which like you couldn't imagine. She harbored some [ __ ] resentment. >> I kind of get it.
>> She published her investigation of the story on her own website and since it's
been republished on many, many internet platforms. And in the years after, she became a regular speaker at skeptic
events and she frequently gave interviews on the subject of alien abduction hoaxes. Wow.
>> Including those where her husband was involved or her former husband. On September 17th, 2023, though, after a
period of illness, Carol passed away from natural causes at St. An's Hospital in Fall River, Massachusetts.
>> Oh no. >> Recently, when asked why Carol worked so hard to undermine her claims, Linda told
a reporter, "She's a [ __ ] She used my case and me and my family as a tool to get even with Bud."
And that is the story of the Manhattan alien abduction. Firmly team Carol over here. I
>> uh just going to say I'm not saying anything wasn't true. >> I'm not saying that you guys were doing
anything illicit together and bud, >> but I just find myself firmly on team Carol.
>> Same. >> Because that was mean to say. >> It was mean to say, especially after she
died. she died and she couldn't respond to it. That's not cool. >> Yeah. You just say no comment.
>> You just say, "You know what? I don't have anything to say." >> But also at the same time, if I was
Linda and that had happened to me and I did get abducted by aliens, I probably wouldn't like Carol either.
>> That's very true. And again, we don't know. >> And we don't know. >> So, I'm We can't come from either side,
you know. >> We just can't. >> I just really like Carol. That's all. >> I felt drawn to her.
>> I felt drawn to Carol. >> Yeah. It's the same thing on Carol from Housewives of New York. I think I just
love a Carol. >> Yeah. And you know what, Linda? I you know if it really happened to you I hope
you can prove it >> and I hope you're okay cuz that's a lot of trauma. >> That's a lot of trauma if that really
happened to you. >> It's like the the fourth kind. >> Exactly. >> The third kind.
>> So many kinds. All >> I've never seen that movie. It's really bad. Uh so yeah
>> I'm on cold medicine so I'm out and I'm in outer space right now. I am one of
the fourth kinds. >> And you're wearing green. >> And I'm wearing green. I'm an I'm an
actual extraterrestrial. >> I actually think I am. >> Yeah. I don't think I'm from this
planet. >> Every day I feel more and more like I'm not either. >> Okay, cool. >> Felt that since I was little.
>> Yeah. I don't think I don't think we're of this earth. >> Always felt that. Feel it more every
day. >> No. >> Yeah. >> I like this universe. >> I think we just need to um I don't know
what we need to do. Everybody just >> You said that so I I was sad. >> I had what do we need to do? And then I
was like, "No." Cuz at first I was like, "I think we need to just like let people
if they believe in aliens, like which I believe. If you believe in aliens, cuz I
think there's something out there. I don't know what it is, but I'm >> I think we should let people believe
what they want to believe with that." >> But it's I understand that like it can become messy when other people get
involved and it becomes bigger than just Yeah. >> a personal belief of this is what's
happening. >> Yeah. It's sad that like it is really sad that >> Bud's marriage kind of like got [ __ ]
up because of a project he was working on. >> And then like the me mention of like
kids being involved. I think it just like it can get messy very quickly. >> I hate that too women were fighting like
I always hate that. >> Yeah. I hate seeing that because like let's ladies support ladies.
>> That's the thing. Women supporting women. >> Humans support humans. >> That's the thing.
>> We're not good at that right now. So that's something we do need to get better at everybody. I know
>> women start supporting women >> and people support people. >> Yeah. I just think this is a wild story.
>> It is a wild story. It's fascinating. >> It's one we'll never really have full
>> And you know what though? Here I was just thinking Sorry I completely interrupted you. Going to get this out.
>> I'm literally in outer space. >> You said I'm just rolling. >> Yeah, I'm just going I'm rolling with
the homies. >> Seeing what comes out. >> Here's the thing. People abduct people.
>> Yeah. >> Why wouldn't aliens abduct people? >> Yeah. >> You know, like maybe they do. They
probably just want to know what the [ __ ] going on down there. >> We abducted each other. They're probably
wondering why we have such a sick ass planet and why we're completely [ __ ] all over it. So, they're like, "What's
going on down there?" >> Oh. Um, uh, you guys, it's like political, so if you don't want to, you
don't have to. But I sub I subscribe to Aaron Parnes's Substack, and he does this thing where once a week he only
gives you good news. >> Oh, that's nice. >> So, I love that part of it. And, um, I
found out that a part of the Earth's atmosphere healed itself. >> Oh, I found that out, too. Yeah,
>> that is great. >> I was so happy. >> I That's really nice to see. >> Yeah, I just thought of that because
>> I mean we can keep [ __ ] it up though and that it's going to keep healing itself. So, let's take this one as a W
and let's keep keep moving in the direction. >> It healed itself because of like
practices that we took like I it's like >> so good job everybody. >> We stopped doing yucky things.
>> Yeah. Stop doing but let's continue to >> let's continue to not do yucky things.
>> Yeah. Don't litter all that [ __ ] >> And that's our message to you. That is very eloquently said message.
>> So, we hope you keep listening >> and we hope you keep it. But that's so weird that you get
abducted by aliens because I don't want any of you to float up into the sky in your night gown and be all upset and
have to get in a fight with everybody about whether it happened or not. And if the government gets involved, I don't
really know what I can do to help you. So, you know what? Don't get probed. I don't want you to get probed.
[Music] [Music] [Music]

On the evening of November 30, 1989, Linda Napolitano awoke in her lower Manhattan apartment to find herself unable to move. She felt as though she was in the presence of other individuals, then she began to lift off her bed and was transported, as though by unseen hands, out her bedroom window several floors up, before being abducted into an unidentified aircraft. Linda Napolitano is one of countless people who claim to have been abducted and experimented on by extraterrestrials; however, she is one of very few whose abduction was witnessed by nearly two dozen strangers in one of the busiest cities in the world. According to ufologist Budd Hopkins, Napolitano’s abduction has produced irrefutable evidence of extraterrestrial life, but more importantly, he believes Linda’s case is proof of a larger and more insidious plan to eradicate humanity altogether. The Manhattan Alien Abduction case is among a small number of heavily researched and well-documented cases of supposed alien abduction in American history, but it is not without its critics. In the years following Linda’s abduction, a dramatic story has unfolded, pitting skeptics and believers against one another in surprising and deeply personal ways. Thank you to the Amazing Dave White (of BRING ME THE AXE PODCAST) for research and writing assistance!

References Hopkins, Budd. 1996. Witnessed: The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions. New York, NY: Pocket Books. Lowe, Lindsay. 2024. ‘The Manhattan Alien Abduction’ controversial true story: Why the star is suing Netflix. November 1. Accessed September 27, 2025. @ure/manhattan-alien-abduction-true-story-rcna178005. 2024. The Manhattan Alien Abduction. Directed by Vivienne Perry and Daniel Vernon. Sheaffer, Robert. 2011. "Abductology Implodes." Skeptical Inquirer 25-27.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022) Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023) Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Listener Tale Theme Music licensed from @

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/202 Main Theme: Matti Paalanen — Trick or Treat — Provided by Jamendo Ad Music: Title: Artist: BlueJay Studio — Spooky Waltz — Provided by Jamendo2) Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023) Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Listener Tale Theme Music licensed from Main Theme: Matti Paalanen — Trick or Treat — Provided by Jamendo Ad Music: Title: Artist: BlueJay Studio — Spooky Waltz — Provided by Jamendo

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Manhattan alien abduction case involving Linda Napolitano and UFO investigator Bud Hopkins, exploring witness accounts and skepticism.

Key points

Curing IBS by Q1. A humorous resolution to tackle IBS issues by the start of the new year.
The Manhattan Alien Abduction. Exploring a chilling alien abduction case from 1989 that left a woman terrified.
Linda's Hypnosis Sessions. Linda recalls terrifying memories of abduction during hypnosis sessions with Bud.
The Mysterious Letter. A letter from police officers elevates Linda's case to a new level of legitimacy.
Police Officers Witness Abduction. Two police officers report a baffling experience that aligns with Linda's abduction account.
The Shocking X-ray Discovery. An X-ray reveals a mysterious object in Linda's nose, suggesting alien interference.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's officially spooky season!

Excitement for the Halloween season.

5:22WatchOct 2, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from Morbid | Podcast

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.