Women Behind Bars - Season 2, Episode 8 - Karen and Linda - Full Episode | Forensic Files

on this episode of women behind bars one woman allegedly set a fire that killed two sleeping children
there was flame visible lapping out the front door either one it has been cooking for a
long time or two it's had some help there was some kind of an explosion and i don't remember nothing
after that until i was standing in the neighbor's living room talking to a private detective and a minister
then linda pillius tells her story she pled guilty to stabbing a friend to death
i guess i never really dealt with my anger that i've encountered from when i was a child
he would show up here with knife marks black and blue he said yeah she'll probably end up
killing me but i'm the only friend she's got in this world i can't turn my head on her
two women two brutal crimes these are the stories of karen mullaly and linda pillius
[Music] on the night of november 3rd 1985 karen milali was the only adult present at a
house fire that killed two young children the oldest child came downstairs and woke me up and said
karen there's a fire upstairs at first it appeared accidental but investigators suspected arson
there were separate fires that had been started in that house that evening this was a circumstantial case but i
thought an overwhelming case against miss millie i don't believe that she is that person who would do something to
harm a child karen's friend and alleged lover patti turo had left karen alone with her
children her lover showed an interest in another woman and this sparked an argument was karen
mullelly a jealous woman seeking revenge or was she wrongly convicted of arson and murder
[Music] although karen milali's father left the family when she was very young her mother soon remarried providing a
happy childhood during her early years my mom meant this wonderful man and he moved her three weeks after he met her
into a four bedroom house on the south side of the city my mom and my stepdad was always good to
me at nine years old however the good times came to an end when a nun at karen's
catholic school asked her to carry an envelope to the principal's office i was all excited thinking she picked me
out of the whole class to do her a favor and i was whistling and skipping to the
pencil's office and when i got there the principal read the note but the note to the principal
accused her of destroying a math book the principal read the note and told me to put my hands out in front
of me she started beating me with a thick paddle karen did not know what she had done
wrong and as her frustration grew she fought back when i was trying to ask her why she was hitting me the more
she'd hit me i just flipped and i started hitting her with the paddle as a result karen was sent to a nearby
reform school she left home early she was basically on her own she said she was very
independent of her family early on after three years karen was terrified that eventually she would be transferred
from a reform school to prison a schoolmate told her one way to be sent home was to stage a suicide attempt
so i put some belts together when i hear the house mother come with the dinner and i hear the keys i'll kick the chair
that way she'll find me in time i didn't really try to commit suicide that time that was trying to do that
just so i could get out of reform school it worked karen spent six months in an outreach program
at a state hospital she then went home and tried to fit in i was good we lived around a lot of old
italian people and i used to carry their groceries but karen claims she faced trouble at home
as well i had a lot of depression because my mother's brother used to abuse me but i never told nobody
i used to cry and he'd say this is a beautiful thing this is showing you how much i love you and this
is our secret there were times karen says when she would have to endure the abuse for
months when he would come and stay there at my mother's that's when i would act up and
go back to the hospital the young teen was in and out of psychiatric care until she was 18.
then as a high school dropout she married dennis malely whom she had been dating for three years
i felt like i loved him as a person but i didn't have that shocking you know that good feeling about loving
somebody weeks later karen left him but they never divorced then in 1980 after several relationships
and a miscarriage she met a customer at a bar where she worked as a barmaid before i found out she was the girl i
started catching feelings for her because she used to do really nice things for me
she was an auto mechanic every time i seen her she was in her work clothes and she looked just like a
little guy karen says they had gone out a few times before she realized her friend
was a woman i noticed she had depressed i was shocked i still seen her after that for a while but then i said
no this ain't for me two years later karen says she became distraught over a relationship with a
man she was allegedly living with we were having a lot of problems and he was seeing somebody else
i said i feel like i'd be better off if i was dead i turned all the gas on on the stove and
tried to commit suicide by the gas according to court records the house caught fire
i woke up sometime later and i lit a cigarette and there was an explosion and i had forgot i turned the gas on but
they came in and got me the records also state that karen was not living with a man but that her
roommate was a woman with whom she was having an affair considered a suspect karen was not
prosecuted for arson instead she spent two weeks in hutchins psychiatric center in syracuse
she had been involved in the other fires but had never been arrested after the incident karen chose not to seek
additional counseling but instead continued drinking and spending her free time in bars
i drank every day i didn't know until i came here but i was an alcoholic i didn't think i was because i was
functional by 1985 karen had struck up a friendship with patty turo at the bar they both
frequented patty was a young mother of two going through a bitter divorce and had started dating women we always
had good times just partying playing pool he was on bowling leagues but patty's sister paula disliked karen
right from the start she started dating different girls she met as karen and she was
kind of loud you know obnoxious very straightforward i just didn't like her karen played
poker on weekends at the house paddy and her children shared with her mother sister and nieces her nieces paula jean
drinkwine who was eight and her sister danielle who was nine remember karen well
we didn't like her when she came there because she was always mean and just really controlling over patty
i remember her kind of being mean to patty the whole situation was new to us because she was
just getting divorced paddy's children tracy and paulie turo were just toddlers when the women met
they're like our little brother and sister really because we live we all live together so
they were more than just cousins they were beautiful kids when tracy had just started kindergarten
and probably knew what time she'd be coming down the um hill home and he'd be sitting
there waiting for her the drink wines believe karen was drawn to patti because she did not have
children of her own i had three pregnancies and i lost all my i had one i lost in my seventh month
one i only carried for four months and my last one i had died at birth the two friends would go to gay bars
which was considered taboo at the time in 1985 certainly in a mid-sized fairly conservative city which
syracuse is nobody talked openly about same-sex relationships the nature of their friendship which was
alleged to be sexual would become an important part of the case against karen it was kind of a romantic relationship
but karen claims that although she thought about having sex with women she never went that far she insists her
relationship with paddy was platonic after she dropped the bombshell at me and told me that she was in love with me
i told her listen i'm not gay although they still maintained a friendship karen says she pulled away from patty
after hearing about her feelings but that did not stop patty according to karen she kept nagging me and nagging me
[Music] when women behind bars continues i feel terrible about those children and i
still do to this day i still do but i couldn't get to them there was nothing i could do
in 1985 32 year old karen mulleley struck up a friendship with patti turo a mother of two who had begun dating
women after a bitter divorce [Music] for patti and karen it was a typical night out they'd been drinking
throughout the afternoon and were at a bar competing in a pool tournament right after the pool tournament in did
paddy said i got to go to the house and take the babies that are home by nine o'clock
she said were you ride out there with me karen who claims she drank less than paddy says her friend was too drunk to
drive and asked for the car keys we got out in the parking lot you wouldn't give me the keys
but it was really cold outside so we stood in the parking lot arguing for about 25 minutes
eventually karen says paddy sobered up enough to drive them to paddy's house in the syracuse suburb of baldwinsville
paula gene and danielle drinkwine were still living with their aunt patty and cousins
tracy and paulie we had a babysitter and she watched us for a few hours and then my aunt came
home with her girlfriend karen patty karen the babysitter and the four children piled into the car to take the
babysitter home on the way back from taking babies that are home the oldest child she wanted to go to mcdonald's
after her activities over the weekend and drinking all day karen was tired she wanted to take the
kids home first and put the two youngest ones to bed and she said you stay with them
so then i said it's late and i just want to go to sleep you go to mcdonald's and i'll go lay
down and you can take me on your way to work in the morning but the drink wines recall a different
version of events one that karen denies we came back home and karen and i my aunt patty got into an
argument karen was jealous she was jealous you know that patty was showing interest in somebody else she had
another girl that liked her karen was a little bit spitting and jealous of patty seeing somebody else she thought
that her lover was paying attention to another woman when she would eventually testify paddy
would deny that she ever told karen about another woman patti left karen and the children at the
house and drove to mcdonald's it was between 9 30 and 10 p.m karen made patty leave
to go get her something to eat i remember that i really believed that she was just
leaving to go out back out drinking and she wasn't going to mcdonald's and she just wanted that excuse for me
to stay there with the kids i was just exhausted all i wanted to do really was go to sleep
karen says she went downstairs to go to bed in the split level house the children were upstairs holly and
tracy came in the room and they asked if they could sleep with us and we told them no
that was the last time we seen him paula jean and danielle were playing with a new toy they had gotten that day
we were playing the game and i kept hearing a funny noise like like clicking noise
and who didn't know what it was i heard some weird noises and i thought my sister was doing it and i
asked her to stop danielle yelled at me she was like cut it out stop doing whatever you're doing i'm like i'm not
doing anything it was like a crackling noise and so i got up and i seen this huge fire
her eyes just opened up and she's like there's a fire in the house and she ran danielle ran to a neighbor's house for
help paula jean stayed and called for her cousins through the flames i went almost face to face with the fire
paula jean thought tracy and paulie were sleeping in her grandmother's room the heat quickly spread to that area i
yelled for them and i yelled for them but they never came unable to find her cousins as the fire spread
paula jean ran to get karen i went downstairs and she was lying on the bed in the basement
like she was sleeping and i kind of had to wake her up and say there's the house is on fire according to karen
she sent paula gene out of the house and then went to rescue tracy and paulie who were still inside
i started to crawl towards the ex the way where the doorway was for his grandmother's bedroom
but the children were not in that room there was some kind of an explosion and i don't remember nothing after that
until i was standing in the neighbor's living room talking to a private detective and a minister
fire chief tom perkins was suspicious of the fire from the moment he arrived we envisioned heavy smoke coming from
this house it was flame visible lapping out the front door as we were going in which is an
indication that either one it has been cooking for a long time or two it's had some help
shortly after the arrival inside the house our first hose line crew came upon the body of one
of the children paula drink wine and her mother returned home from bingo as the firefighters
doused the flames i went to my neighbors and said you know you know where's the kids rescue teams
found tracy's lifeless body on a landing paulie was in his room he had been hiding under the bunk bed
clutching a toy paddy was you know hysterical they took her and my mother to the hospital
and we did find a body under a bed on the second floor and we also found the body the lower
landing on the lower level of the house the children died of smoke inhalation i love them i feel terrible about those
children and i still do to this day i couldn't bring him back i couldn't get to them there was nothing i could do
the next day investigators continued interviewing witnesses both the children who escaped from the
fire as well as their aunt their accounts of what happened that night were in contrast to what
karen mulleley was telling us karen's initial version of events gave investigators cause to be suspicious
there was a babysitter watching the four children that night pat terrell came home with karen milali and it was
determined that all the kids would come with pat and karen as they took the babysitter home that is
not what karen malely told us the children also told us what happened while their
aunt was gone to get food and that contradicted what karen malely told us i told him the truth after i mean i told
him as it came back to me we believed that she was not being honest and that for some reason she was
covering up what actually occurred for her own benefit we had no reason to believe
that the children were not being honest with us the fire department also had reason to
believe that this could be a case of arson there were actually at least three different starts
so it was determined that was suspicious william fitzpatrick was a successful and
respected prosecutor known for an excellent trial record and high conviction rate
there was some thought that it might have been an accidental fire my own standard is not just beyond a reasonable
doubt it's beyond any shot of the doubt as i sit here right now i would stake my
life on the fact that karen maleli set those fires and killed those two children
encouraged by this certainty officials called on one of the area's top arson investigators arson is an
extremely difficult crime to prove because by its very nature the evidence is consumed
so we employed the dance to offer i was looking to see number one where the fire started
and if we could determine the heat source staffer rolled out a furnace or electrical fire and uncovered a key to
the case we had more than one area of origin in the house at different levels and that the only
conclusion that could be drawn is that the heat source had to be humanly induced by somebody
we would never play with matches we would never set our house on fire and we would never leave our cousins behind
prosecutors did not believe the drink wine girls had set the fires despite their feelings about karen we
may have not liked karen or been scared of her but we didn't want to hurt her the fires were either set by the
children or by miss milali and i think the overwhelming evidence pointed clearly to karen
milnelli when women behind bars continues i should have been able to take the stand
in my own behalf i've never been able to be heard and later linda pillias faces murder
charges in the stabbing death of a man who gave her a place to live dennis and i were arguing over
a piece of crack and he got violent so i grabbed a knife and i stabbed him twice
on the night of november 3rd 1985 two young children died in a house fire near syracuse new york
at first it appeared to be accidental but investigators came to suspect thirty-three-year-old karen milali the
only adult present of arson it became a sensational story making local headlines
karen mullelly had been involved in at least three other fires which were suspicious in nature they
weren't allowed to be brought into evidence however we had uncovered information
and the patterns in those fires were very very consistent with the fire that had been set that
night she was a suspect in in those fires and one of them was an incident where she
apparently set the fire herself in an effort to kill herself which is probably what happened here
karen milali was never charged for the other incidents but they were reported in the news
before her arrest a lot of that information came out and was publicized prior to the trial
which is kind of like setting a jury up to know facts that they really aren't supposed to know but they know
because it's a small community nearly three months after the fire karen had not consulted an attorney but
knew she was a suspect investigators had questioned her and given her lie detector tests which were
inconclusive nonetheless the case against her was building i knew they was coming to get me i said
i'm not going nowhere so i didn't do nothing and they can't get away with this karen was
arrested and assigned an attorney the case went before a grand jury to determine if there was enough evidence
to go to trial this was a circumstantial case but i thought an overwhelming case against
miss milali immediately prior to the grand jury presentation the girls are confronted by the
prosecutor of the case and they are asked whether or not the sound they hear is consistent with a lighter fitzpatrick
separated the drink wine girls and asked them about the noises they heard that night
tried some different sounds and when we went to the sound of the of the bic lighter vision being
obstructed both kids independently said boy that sounds exactly like what we heard
instead of hearing a crackling like wood burning now they're hearing uh a lighter
and they're hearing not just a lighter but a specific number of of clicks and you have to say to yourself is that
really humanly possible or were these kids somehow coached into saying it it's not
unusual for a child witness or for any witness to recall some things later on that might be important to an
investigation i was fairly confident that what they were saying was their accurate
recollection with enough evidence prosecutors decided to move forward karen was charged with four counts of
second-degree murder and second and fourth degree arson the case went to trial in july
she's got two of the best defense lawyers in onondaga county representing her they were very very skilled lawyers both
of them and both very very good in the courtroom the prosecution had a long witness list
some of the most memorable testimony came from paula gene drinkwine it was uncanny she leaned forward click
click click lean back and just sat there for a minute it was just an incredible thing to see a
child do under all that pressure it was compelling but karen says her mother was prepared
to testify that weeks before she had taken a lighter from young polyturo and gotten into an argument
with patti she said give it back to him he can play with it he plays with my lighter all the
time he even lights my cigarettes the defense did not call karen's mother as a witness they didn't
appear to want to blame the dead children thinking it may offend somebody you know
but the facts are the facts if the facts say there's a likelihood that these kids did
it that's where you got to go the drink wine's testimony was important but prosecutors had another key witness
the most compelling evidence for me against karen mullerley clearly was the separate areas of
origin of this arson fire there was a fire in this laundry basket and as the basket began to collapse it
just the actual flame involvement went straight up hit the ceiling tiles had no place to go and started move
horizontal across the ceiling before it went out the critical thing was was the fire
investigator and i think that's where it was probably what the defense was trying to show is that that might have
been a drop down in other words there was fire upstairs and that it might have spread
through the floor and dropped down i think their strategy was really to poke holes at what the
prosecution presented and to simply claim that the charges weren't proved beyond a
reasonable doubt the defense questioned stauffer but rested without calling a single
witness they should have an expert come in and say look children start fires they start them all the time and they
aren't able to disprove the fact that in this particular case the fire wasn't started
by these children i should have been able to take the stand in my own behalf i've never been
able to be heard it took the 10 woman two-man jury just over four hours to reach the verdicts
karen mullally was found guilty of two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of tracy and paul churro
the children of her lover mullally was also found guilty of fourth degree arson they had no evidence whatsoever to
convict me of that crime and then there was a lot of stuff that was done there was
it was not right i believe it was the the the quality testimony that the fire investigator presented at the trial
together with the testimony certainly of the two girls that led to the jury finding her guilty
although it was nice for the jury to have a motive that this woman you know had an explosive
temper and was angry at another it really could have improved even without that i was innocent i i was devastated i
i just couldn't believe it i've been here 23 years for something i didn't do they always say they're innocent you
know i say put her in a room and said i'm fired let her try to get out that's an eye for an eye right paddy
turo and karen milali are no longer in contact paddy has never remarried or had any more children
if you start talking about it she just goes in the other room or walks away she just she can't deal with it she can't
talk about it she doesn't even look at the photo she won't look at them now she has animals that's her kid she
has a lot of animals but that doesn't replace kids [Music] karen still denies she was ever patty's
lover she filed appeals to overturn the case but they were denied she believes she's innocent in my
opinion the facts kind of support that she's innocent at age 57 karen says she is in poor
health my worst nightmare is that i'm gonna die in prison for something i didn't do
karen is eligible for parole in two years which worries the drinkwine family i don't think that she should get out of
jail she destroyed many many lives forever and it's for us it's never gonna end so why
should prison end for her but after more than two decades at bedford hills correctional facility
her fellow inmates believe karen has earned parole physically emotionally mentally spiritually
she's paid her dues she's paid her debt to society and i just hope that they can forgive her even if she
doesn't forgive herself asserting her innocence it scares karen to know that she may never be released
i've been here 23 years and it's just not right that i have to suffer like this for something i didn't do
when women behind bars continues i was crazy jealous i didn't mean it to happen but i snapped
for more information about women behind bars go to wetv.com in the early morning hours after labor
day weekend in 2004 linda pillius a drifter with a history of violence and mental illness
stabbed and killed her friend dennis titus i said dennis she's trouble you better watch out and he said i can
handle her i noticed the big change in linda the minute you added alcohol to her
i was crazy that's why i was on so many meds i think she was just very evil not necessarily insane
was lindapilius a woman who was overcome by her addictions or a manipulative killer with a chilling
violent history i was close to my mother however i was not close to my father i was physically abused mentally
emotionally abused by him i just never had high self-esteem linda couldn't even stand her father
claim that he's the one that did everything to her in her past that created her problems
according to linda she was diagnosed with a variety of mental problems as a young teen
and was given medications her early life was lived in a haze of drugs i don't think i ever got to know myself
because i was drugged up since 13 years old 14. that i didn't give myself a chance
to grow emotionally or mentally as a teenager she also developed a drinking habit
and left home it was my whole life just drinking and drugging and using and going from one place to
another running around the countryside doing what i could do to survive by 1980 linda was living in
san diego and learned she was pregnant before her son robert was born the boy's father left
linda i thought that he would love me and i would love him forever i didn't realize the
responsibilities of taking care of a child according to linda she could not care
for robert on her own so they went back home to live closer to her family in new york
having a son brought her happiness but linda's addictions were strong she and a boyfriend were out one night
when they met a woman at a bar linda attempted to rob her but things quickly got out of hand
i always carried a knife they were fighting and i took the knife out and i stabbed her
while being under the influence i blacked out linda stabbed the woman and beat her
with a candlestick the woman survived i guess i never really dealt with my anger that i've encountered from when i
was a child her son robert went to live with an aunt when linda went to prison for
second-degree attempted murder after serving the minimum sentence she was released on parole
looking for a fresh start linda moved to rochester she wanted to bring her son robert back
into her life my sister wouldn't let me have custody of my son and i was very depressed over that and
started drinking again trying to break the cycle linda enrolled in an addicts program tailored to her
needs that's where she met brian de la franiere they dated for eight years she was involved in my family holidays
she could cook clean she'd do anything to go out of her way to help somebody as brian and linda faced their
addictions together their bond grew she was honest with him about her sadistic past
i knew that she had gotten out of jail for attempted murder those were her first charges
but i had no fear of linda i never seen that in her between 1991 and 1994 linda's life began
to get on track she held down jobs at local shops went to counseling at rochester psychiatric
hospital and even developed a love for animals one thing myself and linda had in common
was we had a dog his name was max and that was linda's life right there as well as the two
lovebirds in the cockatiel that we had but staying employed was hard for linda she gave in to the pull of her
addictions i had more self-esteem when i drank and used and i would feel normal the minute linda started doing
street drugs cocaine heroin alcohol that's when she stopped doing her mental health medications i could have stopped
but i didn't want to stop even with mental meds it didn't kill that pain as good as the alcohol and the drugs did
brian worked hard to stay sober but linda continued to lose control she became dangerous company to keep i
loved linda as much as a person could love her and then eventually it came to a point
where i couldn't when she attacked me with the knife at that point i couldn't live with her
anymore linda later moved in with brian's mother and had support when she was diagnosed with
a life-threatening form of cancer i did full body radiation it went into remission for
only one year and then it came back she had people that loved her people that cared for
people that would do stuff or help her out when she was in her difficult times with her having cancer
even with his family committed to helping her linda abused their trust by 2002 brian's family could no longer deal with
linda and told her she had to leave by 2003 linda had found her way to scottsville a suburb of rochester where
she met landscape designer and handyman dennis titus he was just one of those special souls
he said oh well she's dying of cancer and she's really a nice person and i want to help her out his friend
and neighbor nancy meyer agreed to give linda a room in her boarding house as a favor to dennis
she appeared to be very very nice but just something didn't click with her dennis was
a friend and a lover i loved him very much but dennis's friends and family say it
was not a romance there was no relationship there they didn't like each other at least i know dennis didn't like her
maybe she thought the other way but i don't know he never told him we had a relationship
he just told him that he was helping me out linda claims that she and dennis like to
do drugs together he introduced me to crack cocaine so we started using together
and that's when he started getting abusive towards me but people who knew dennis say he liked
to drink but did not use drugs they think he was the victim he would show up here
with knife marks black and blue he said yeah she'll probably end up killing me hahahaha but he said you know i i
i'm the only friend she's got in this world i can't turn my head on her nancy says a
tenant moved out when linda threatened to kill her nancy later forced linda out too and
dennis took her in it was a camper but he made it into like a little trailer and i moved in with him there right next
to his parents house he's well she's at my place just for a couple nights and i said dennis she's trouble you
better watch out and he said i can handle her when women behind bars continues she stabbed him i mean there's no
getting around that she stabbed dennis titus for decades linda pillias a cancer patient convicted felon an aggressive
drug abuser struggled to live a normal life without a place to live she had nowhere to go landscape designer
dennis titus took her in for a few months then he tried to get her to move out i didn't want to leave and every week he
would tell me get out get out he'd kick me out as indian summer waned in upstate new
york dennis took two family friends a woman and her stepdaughter on a boat ride along the river near his house
instead of joining them linda took dennis's truck into the city of rochester i thought he was cheating on me and then
that made me even more crazier than what i was i went into the city to cop some drugs and then coming back i
stopped at the bar to have some drinks linda returned to the mobile home in the early
morning hours and had an argument with dennis dennis and i were arguing over a piece
of crack who would get it and he got violent and i was trying to fight him back at
first but i didn't have the energy so i grabbed a knife and i stabbed him twice linda says she was not only angry about
the crack but also jealous of dennis's divided attention that day i was crazy jealous i didn't mean it to
happen but i snapped just after he was stabbed dennis managed to get to his parents
house next door where his mother called 9-1-1 before he passed out dennis told his
mother that linda had stabbed him it's a rural area it's three o'clock in the morning the victim was on the ground
he wasn't able to talk so we didn't know actually where the stabbing occurred so we just had to start checking the
area for the female another 911 call came from the area of 51 erie station road for a female white
that was banging on the door edwards was one of the deputies who responded to the call
employees from a roadside donut shop alerted them that pilius was inside she had dried up blood on her arms and
she was just kind of like leaning down into the table with her head down in her arms she
did not say anything we just directed her to get down on the ground where we took her into custody
without any incident linda was taken to a nearby hospital where she was questioned by police
she was very manipulative from the start of it she would go in and out of moods you
know she had to be tied down to hospital and i didn't want to talk i was so upset
when investigator vaughn was eventually able to question her linda seemed to be testing her limits i
think she was trying to achieve to be a victim to play the victim and i don't believe
she was a victim linda calmed down and provided an oral statement to officers she confronted death about what happened
with the girls she asked him if he wanted to have sex with the girls he said yes but they didn't want to so
she became mad and then she said she grabbed the knife and stabbed them twice in the chest when taken to the
sheriff's office for further questioning linda's story changed in her written statement she said that she was telling
the truth this time this was the actual story she said dennis was angry because she
took his truck into town and that dennis was the one who grabbed the knife with differing stories prosecutor
catherine wagner would have to piece the events together for herself because dennis titus and linda peleus
were the only two people in that trailer when this crime occurred we'll never know exactly how it happened
in both accounts prosecutors had a key to the investigation the most beneficial part of the
statement is that she stabbed him i mean there's no getting around that she stabbed
dennis titus a few hours after he was admitted to the hospital dennis titus died the knife used to stab
him had cut one of the main arteries in his heart the crime was now a murder case we ended
up taking her to the court for arraignment at the judge's chamber she became difficult again with the
judge and didn't initially want to listen to him linda was immediately arrested and sent
to county jail to await trial for dennis's murder that same day prosecutors met with
dennis's parents they were very upset that lindapilius was painting a very incorrect picture of their son that
he was a batterer of her that was completely untrue and they felt very upset about that
linda may have led dennis to think he was her only friend but investigators talked to people who
knew her and uncovered linda's history of violence linda pillius was a troublemaker i don't
think he knew how bad i don't think he knew about her history or he wouldn't have allowed her to live
with him it became clear that dennis and those close to him had no idea about her past nobody knew anything
about her i didn't know i don't know what her name was linda that was it when i heard about it all i seen was
visions running through my head that that could have been me according to police linda's behavior remained bizarre
her stories contradicted most of what investigators learned in their questioning
her attorney filed for a psychiatric evaluation you need to be able to be aware of your
charges have a basic sense of what they are on the severity of them and you also need to be able to work
with your attorney in order to be incompetent you have to have some sort of mental defect or disease
the evaluation consists essentially of observing and talking to the person they can last
from 15 minutes to two hours and it all depends on the seriousness of the charges and also
the kind of issues that are being dealt with her interview lasted 15 minutes linda's
behavior was described as atypical for mental disorder he felt that she was trying to act crazy
in order to not go forward with her case or to stay in the psychiatric center instead of going to the jail to await
her trial it was another tactic to avoid facing the charges by 2005 doctors decided linda pillius was competent to
stand trial in a preliminary hearing a judge denied linda's claim that the statement she
gave to investigators was forcibly made i decided to plead guilty because i didn't want to take it to trial and
put his family through a lot of stuff i felt guilty for what i did to him i felt like i deserved the time
i felt like i was a menace to society and that i don't deserve to be let out because of her history wagner asked the
court to consider the interests of society when sentencing peleus i asked for the most serious sentence
she could receive which was 25 years my sentence is 22 years flat i'll be 65 by the time i leave here if i
make it killing somebody i don't think sentence is long enough i think it was a joke
he assaulted others before with the intent to kill she's just an evil woman and she deserves to be
where she is when you take somebody else's life and you get 22 no it's not enough not for killing
somebody else no some feel linda will succumb to her disease before she is released from
prison 22 years for this woman is a long time and it might be a life sentence for her
anyway i got a chance to apologize to his parents linda recalls an unplanned meeting with
dennis's parents in the hospital immediately following the death of their son when i was going out to the hospital
in rochester i was shocked that they were sitting there and i looked at his mother and i said
please forgive me i said please forgive me and she just looked and looked away though he has not been a part of linda's
life for a long time brian still thinks about her i just wish her the best i feel sorry
for her i wish that her life could have been different i go to church and i believe
that the good lord is going to help me give me strength to endure september 7 2004 means to me
a day of hell it took away my rights to live in society he was a good man and i wish i could take it back
but i can't you

Brief Summary

Karen Mullaly and Linda Pillius share their stories of tragic crimes involving a deadly fire and a fatal stabbing.

Key points

The Tragic Fire. On November 3rd, 1985, a house fire claimed the lives of two children, leading to suspicions of arson against Karen Mullelly.
Karen's Troubled Past. Karen Mullelly's childhood was marked by trauma and abuse, shaping her later life choices.
The Investigation Unfolds. As investigators delve deeper, contradictions in Karen's story raise suspicions about her involvement in the fire.
Karen's Conviction. Karen Mullally is found guilty of murder and arson after a tense trial.
Linda's Violent Outburst. Linda Pilius stabs Dennis Titus during a heated argument, leading to his death.
Linda's Competency Evaluation. Linda's evaluation revealed her atypical behavior and tactics to avoid trial.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I feel terrible about those children and I still do to this day.

Karen reflects on the tragic fire.

9:49WatchJan 12, 2021

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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