Who Cut a Hole Into Susie Jaeger’s Tent? | Forensic Files

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brett. And today, I'll be taking
you on a trek through the mountains of Montana, where a little known serial killer went undetected for years,
despite his brazen crimes. Murders he likely would have gotten away with, had it not been for the surprising
investigative combo of a mother's unrelenting determination for answers. And this brand new thing the FBI was
developing a little something that you might be very familiar with now, but at the time no one had heard of criminal
profiling. It was still in its infancy at the time. But this would be one of the very first cases where the FBI put
their learning to work to catch a serial killer, David Meerhoffer. It's summer 1973 and 12-year-old Heidi
Joerger wakes up to a breeze on the back of her head. She might have had this [music] brief hazy moment where she
embraces the Montana mountain air, but then she realizes that's all wrong. Yes, she's outside. She's camping with her
family, but she's inside a tent. There shouldn't be a breeze. When she opens her eyes, it is pitch black. So she
starts to like feel around and her hand actually touches grass. And when her eyes finally adjust to the darkness, she
notices that there is this [music] gaping hole sliced through the back of her tent. And her little sister Susie,
who had been sleeping right next to her, is gone. Now Heidi doesn't hesitate. She
runs to wake up her parents in their nearby camper. Bill and Maretta Joerger hurry out with flashlights, hoping to
see seven-year-old Susie wandering their campsite somewhere, maybe using the restroom. But what they find causes even
more panic. Susie's stuffed animals that she'd been sleeping with are in the grass outside the back of the tent near
where the hole was. Now, they figure she couldn't have been gone long. It's just
after 5:00 a.m. now, and Heidi tells them that she last laid eyes on her sister at 1:30 a.m. They'd both like
woken up, chatted for a little bit before then falling back asleep. Did something wake them?
>> Not that she remembers, but it's something that I've wondered about because their parents had put them to
bed earlier before going to their camper to sleep. So, I know that they were asleep earlier. But it seems unlikely
because it wasn't just Susie and Heidi in the tent. Two of their brothers were actually in there, too. You see, the
Jagger family had an order about their campsite. So, for this month-long excursion that they were on from their
home in Michigan to Montana, the four youngest kids slept in the tent. Their oldest son, Dan, had a sleeping setup in
the family van. [music] Parents, Bill and Marietta, have their own camper. And even the grandparents, who were on this
trip, they also have their own sleeping quarters. And no one else reported hearing anything strange in the night.
They all stayed asleep until the family started waking them up one by one to help search for Susie. In the book The
Lost Child, which was written by Suz's mom, Marietta, she describes the moment that she saw Suz's stuffed animals on
the ground and the hole in the tent. And Brett, I'm actually just going to have you read from the sentence so people can
hear directly from her. It's at the bottom of page 26. As I stumbled around the campground
searching, I was gripped by a terrible sense of separation, panic, and hopelessness in my inability to see. I
remember looking up at the black night sky [music] and begging God to send the sun. The darkness was unbearably
frustrating. And in that moment, like desperate for a logical explanation, Maretta and Bill
are asking Heidi if there was anything inside the tent that Susie could have used to cut the hole herself. But of
course, there wasn't. And right away, Marietta knows in her heart of hearts that someone has her daughter. She just
hopes that they haven't gotten too far. Using flashlights, they all start searching for Susie around the
campground, even waking neighboring campers. But there is no sign of Susie. So Sus's dad and grandpa drive to the
closest town to alert police. The Gallatin County Sheriff's Office and FBI special agent Pete Dunar out of the
nearby Boseman, Montana office rush to the campground and right away they see what Marietta [music] sees. They search
every car and building and question all the campers. A volunteer search party forms to help look for Susie. And as the
crowd of helpful people begins to grow, the Joerger family overhears something that must have made them even more
worried for their little girl. One of the volunteers is talking to another one [music] about the other child that was
attacked at that very campground while asleep in his tent just a few years prior. So Marietta goes right to law
enforcement and ask them about this. Like what what are they talking about? And they confirm this is true. 5 years
before in May 1968, 12-year-old Michael Rainey was stabbed in his tent at that same state park. He'd been on a boy
scout trip and was sleeping right next to another kid. That case was never solved. And now this seems like way more
than just a coincidence that Susie went missing from the same place. >> So finding her might mean actually
solving two cases and preventing more, which makes the stakes all that much higher. When the light of day begins
slowly creeping in, the sun reveals one more clue. Where Suz's stuffed animals had been. They can barely make out a
foot path [music] in the dew of the grass leading away from the tent toward the parking area. There's also a rock
with reddish brown stains. This is by no means comforting to anyone, and this ramps up the urgency of the search. The
FBI sets up a command center at the campground. Authorities start working on a bolo for Susie, and they rush Suz's
sleeping bag, her stuffed animals, the rock that cut part of the tent, all to their lab for testing. And they also
widen the search area to include Rivers, the local dump, and the nearby towns of
Three Forks and Manhattan, Montana, where they start going doortodoor. And all of those efforts do result in some
suspect names being tossed around, mostly local oddballs. And any of them who didn't have a solid alibi for the
early morning hours of June 25th were brought in for questioning and polygraphs. They even dispatch police to
the Jagger's home in Michigan to check their house and mail to see if anyone made any threats. And they go doortodoor
there to find out if any neighbors had any information about Susie or somebody who could be a threat to her. But no
matter how much or where they search over the next several days, nothing is found. And mind you, this case is
getting some real headlines around Montana. And Marietta is giving local reporters interviews in case it could
help, thinking that someone out there had to know something. Her desperate please just had to reach the right
person. It takes [music] five full days before the first big development comes in. And strangely, it comes to the
Denver field office of the FBI. >> Like Denver, Colorado. Yeah. They get a call at 700 p.m. on June 30th from a man
who says that he is Suz's kidnapper. And he says, "Tell someone the ransom is $25,000."
But he hung up without giving any more information. Where should they take the money? When? Yeah. Now, no one knew if
this was a hoax or if they should be expecting another call. But the phone didn't ring again until July 2nd. This
time, not in a Denver field office. Not actually in any office at all. The phone
rang at the home of Gallatin County Deputy Ron Brown. The thing is, Ron Brown isn't home. Even though it's 11:16
p.m., he's still out helping with Suz's search. So, his wife, Jane, answers, and
the man says to her, "The Denver FBI must think I'm a crank. I'm raising the ransom to $50,000.
And this time, he gives real instructions. He demands that the ransom be put in a suitcase in small bills, and
placed in the end stall of the men's restroom at the Denver bus stop." >> The Denver, Colorado connection.
>> We're back to Denver again. And this time it feels legit because he says that
he can prove he has Suzie by telling them something about her that a random stranger wouldn't know. He says that
Suz's fingernails, like on her index fingers of each hand, are humped a little, like slightly deformed. And this
is true of Suzie. And it's also true that a stranger wouldn't know that. I mean, it wasn't put on any of the press
bulletins about this case. Actually, Marietta writes in her book that in the chaos and fear after Susie first
disappeared, they were like giving her description to the authorities and stuff, but they had like totally
forgotten this detail about her. Like, it was barely noticeable and Susie was born with it. So, like again, literally,
she was born with it and they never thought about it anymore. So, this caller, this is either someone who knows
Suzy, knows the family and would play some kind of like not some kind, the crulest hoax on them, which seems
absolutely out of the realm of possibility. >> Or this is really the man who kidnapped
her. Once authorities are made aware of this call, they send an urgent teletype to the Denver field office to get
someone to the bus depot to do surveillance. They also launch a plan to get some dummy bills together to fill a
suitcase because the Acres don't have just like $50,000 in cash sitting around. But whoever it was that called
never comes to the bus depot, never picks up the cash or I don't know if they saw the police or what, but like
that pickup never happens. >> Never materializes. >> No. And in the time that the sheriff's
office is waiting, another crime in the area happens. And actually, it's one that I've already covered on my other
show, The Deck. 20-year-old nurse, Donna Lemon, goes missing after last being seen buying a can of beer at a bar in
Gallatin Gateway on July 5th, 1973. So, this is just 10 days after Suzie and 30 miles south of Headwater State Park.
Now, her case ends up seeing slightly more resolution than Suz's because within four days, they end up finding
Donna's body on the banks of the Snake River down in Idaho. And while [music] this might pull on some resources, take
away from Suz's case, that investigation happens like much smaller, it's much quieter as it plays out. And honestly,
the most distracting part for police at the time is like they start getting tips
from locals suggesting that maybe Suz's case and Donna's case are somehow connected, which doesn't make a whole
lot of sense to officials. like the circumstances, the victims themselves, everything about the two cases felt very
different. And none of the tips had anything concrete to point to. They were all just basically saying like this is
really a weird coincidence like in such a small place having two cases like this
back to back. >> How could they not be connected, >> right? But the investigators aren't
bringing the cases together. They have a kidnapping right now and all of their effort is going into locating Suzie
hopefully alive. And the Joerger family is doing anything they can to support. In order to feel like they're doing
something helpful, they start fundraising for actual cash should the kidnapper call back and want to follow
through on the ransom demand. They also make calls and organize a reward fund for information. It's like the 1970s
version of GoFundMe. And Maretta writes in her book that thanks to a major donation from an anonymous person, they
actually do raise $50,000. [music] So, they are quickly ready for a call. A call that just never comes. As July
becomes August, and as summer comes to an end with very little in the way of legit leads, the Jagger family has to
think about heading home. >> They have been living at the campground this whole time, fueled by locals who
brought them food and other necessities. Marietta has a whole chapter in her book
titled God's Good People about how nice everyone was to them in their time of need. But I can't imagine that feeling
like packing up that long drive back to Michigan. I mean, on their way out west,
everyone had been buzzing with excitement for their family adventure. Marietta had taken to doing a headcount
after each pit stop. So on the way home, not only was the tone in the van just sad, but Marietta's headcount was down
by one. Montana had stolen their youngest child and they were returning home without her. The other kids needed
to return to school. Bill has to go back to work. Authorities assure them that they'll still be working the case,
though, and they hatch a plan for the Jaggers to get a tape recorder that if they get any calls from the kidnapper at
home, they'll be recording. So, the Jaggers eventually settle into a new normal in Michigan without Suzie. But I
don't even know that normal is like the right word cuz Marietta barely leaves the house just in case the kidnapper
calls like tape recorder at the ready. [music] And the house phone does ring constantly with well-wishers and
psychics even offering visions. And Marietta answers every single one. It is her job now, her post, and she will not
abandon it. But on September 24th, her youngest son, Joe, calls from catechism class. He unexpectedly needs a ride
home. I guess Bill's at work. Marietta, I mean, she's at home on phone duty, but
Joe is only 5 minutes away. So that's the moment when she rushes out to get him. And in the 10 minutes she is gone,
the phone rings. Now, luckily, the oldest of the Jagger kids, [music] 16-year-old Dan, he is home and presses
record before answering the phone. And of course, this is the call. It's the kidnapper.
In the parks and forest you love, there are stories waiting to be told. I'm Dillia Deira, the host of Park
Predators, a true crime podcast that reminds you sometimes the most beautiful places hide the darkest secrets. Listen
now wherever you get your podcasts. The call from the kidnapper lasts only 2 minutes in total, and the recording no
longer exists, but a transcript [music] does. So, I'm going to have voice actors
read part of it so you can hear the exact words that the man said. >> Now, you're Suz's brother, huh?
>> Yeah. You like to know where she's at? >> Yeah, I would. Well, you're going to
have to wait a while. Why? You've had too much police and FBI activity. You may think I'm a hoax, but I know
something about Susie that nobody knows. >> Oh, why don't you tell us? >> Okay. Fingernails of her first fingers
are humped. >> I know that. I meant Why don't you tell us where she is? >> Because I can't hardly do that. It's a
pretty dangerous situation, you know. >> Well, can't you just drop her somewhere
and let us pick her up? >> Do you want to come west quite a ways? >> Yeah, no problem there.
Well, we'll make arrangements one of these days, but for right now, you're going to have to wait a while.
>> Why do we have to wait? >> Cuz that's the way things have to be. >> Why? >> Well, cuz a person does things like
this, he can't get caught. He's got to figure out ways not to get caught. >> Just drop her somewhere a day ahead of
time and just leave that place. >> Yeah, sure. I don't want to drop her just for nothing. Anyway, I just want to
tell you to wait a while. You will be contacted. It may be another week. It may be a month or two months or so, but
you'll get contacted. >> He's keeping them in like suspended torture. Maybe a week, maybe a month.
This feels way less like finding a way out and more like he's >> screwing with them.
>> Kind of screwing with them. >> I know. >> I were they able to trace calls like
this back then, like in the 70s? They actually were, but I guess in 73 this I mean it takes like a few weeks to do,
but the FBI finds a receipt of the call through a phone company and traces it to
a pay phone at a gas station diner near Cheyenne, Wyoming, >> but by the time they get there in like
October, I mean, not only is the guy not there, but like so many people have used
that pay phone. >> Yeah, it's public. >> It's impossible to actually get like usable fingerprints. And nobody reports
seeing any kidnapper looking guys using that particular phone. >> Great. >> Now around the same time is also when
the lab results come back in of like all the stuff they sent off to the FBI. But
all of that stuff is a dead end to no prints on anything. Now they do confirm that the substance that they saw on that
rock that like reddish brown stuff that was human blood but the sample wasn't even suitable for any further testing.
And the only hair that they collected from the sleeping bag turns out to be consistent with Suz's. And the cut
didn't tell them anything either other than it was cut with a sharp instrument, which like
>> it was cut. >> So there is nothing physical that is going to tie back to their guy. And if
he was still looking for a way to let Susie go and get something out of it, he hasn't found it because he never called
back like he told Dan he was going to. So the family endures the holidays without Susie. And the end of 1973 also
marks the end to any solid leads or action in the investigation. And while I'm sure nobody wants to say it out
loud, there is less and less hope of finding Suzie alive. If they were to do more searches, it would probably be for
remains. They just don't even know where to look. >> But the truth is, remains are what they
would end up finding, but in the strangest way possible. So, [music] come February 1974, this is now over 7 months
since Sus's kidnapping, the Gallatin County Sheriff's Office is faced with another missing person's case. Now, on
its surface, this case looks closer to Donna Lemons, remember her? Than it does Sus's case because the missing young
woman, Sandy Dykeman, was 19 years old and living on her own in Manhattan, Montana, which is like this small town
like 10 minutes from the state park. So, her dad, John Dykeman, reported her missing on Monday, February 11th. He
said that Sandy hadn't been seen since Saturday night. She wasn't answering her door or her phone, and her car, this
little white Ford Cortina, was missing. All of this totally not normal behavior for his daughter. Now, Manhattan is a
small town, so deputies taking this report are even familiar with Sandy, who waitresses at the Bowling Alley Cafe.
So, after they can't seem to find anyone who knows where she is, the sheriff organizes a search for her and her car,
which aren't anywhere in this small town. So, their search has to expand to the farreaching corners of the county,
which is how Deputy Don Hton and town marshal Ron Skinner end up at this old abandoned ranch about a week after Sandy
was last seen. And as Dawn and Ron are like walking around the property, something white catches their eyes in
the sage brush. It's a pair of women's underwear, and they look like they've been recently worn. So, they bag the
underwear and continue their search to a nearby barn where they have to force their way inside. And peeking out from
under a tarp and some hay is Sandy's little white car. Now, when Don and Ron approach, they're like probably
expecting to find Sandy's body, but the only thing they see when they peer through the windshield is some clothing.
No sign of Sandy, not even a bloody crime scene. But this is still highly suspicious. So, they bring in
reinforcements to process this place over the next several days. And the FBI and the rest of the sheriff's office
search almost every inch of the property, the house, the barn, the outuildings, [music] and it is just red
flag after red flag, both in what they find and in what others bring to them. Like one day during crime scene
processing at the ranch, this local guy shows up saying that he found a woman's red blouse nearby. And then they find
more clothes in a suitcase in Sandy's car. all of which seem to belong to her, but they don't appear to have been
packed up the way that she would if she had left voluntarily. And then in the abandoned house, they find melted candle
wax in like various places, and they discover a closet that looks as if it had been nailed shut with a pile of
feces in it. And a bloody whip is found in the barn, [music] or at least they think it's blood on this whip. And then
it's on February 19th that they find bones in a burn pile near the old ranch house and scattered around outside. They
collect over a thousand pieces of bone fragments, including some teeth. The picture that's getting painted is that
something very bad happened to Sandy here. But there was still a twist yet to come for investigators. When the
pathologists and anthropologists review the biological materials and bones from the ranch, they conclude without a doubt
that some of the remains belong to Sandy Dykeman. Yes. Specifically, it's the teeth that they compare and match to
Sandy's dental records. >> Here's the twist. Experts [music] say that not all of the remains belong to
Sandy. There are at least two people who were reduced to a pile of ash because some of the bones belong to a girl
between the ages of 5 and 8 years old. Susie, it is everyone's first [music] thought, but they have nothing as
definitive to ID Susie yet. But if it's her, this is the biggest development Susie's case has seen in months. And it
without a doubt connects Susie and Sandy's cases. And if Sandy's killer is Suz's killer, there is one name that
actually appears in both investigations. David Meyerhoffer. David Meyerhoffer is a 20-some
yearear-old lifelong Manhattan resident, a former Boy Scout and Marine who served
in Vietnam. And he is back home now working as a self-employed carpenter in town. And David is someone who is known
to them. This guy's always eager to help. He's curious, constantly asking the deputies questions about the
kidnapping investigations that they were working when he sees them at the local cafe. He was one of those local oddballs
that actually came up in Suz's case. One of the guys that witnesses told the cops
they should just look at early on. And they did. But David had been pretty cooperative. So back then he's like kind
of annoying but not really suspicious. But his name came up in Sandy's case, too, for two different reasons. One, he
is actually the local man who just happened upon that blouse that he turned over to police by the ranch. Mhm.
>> And two, apparently, he had gone on a date with Sandy just a few months ago, [music] and when he asked for a second
date, Sandy turned him down. >> Okay. So, there's a connection to Sandy, but how does he connect to Suzy?
>> I mean, only by her bones, or probably [music] her bones being found with Sandy. and
Sandy being socially connected to David. Like, it's not solid, >> but it's something
>> and they got to start somewhere. So, agents actually go and pay David a visit
at his warehouse in Manhattan, which is only like a half block from where Sandy lived. And he acts as if he has nothing
to hide. He agrees to even take a polygraph test. And he passes. So, the agents move on. But there's nothing to
really move on to. The cases both just kind of hit a dead end and they only heat back up because agent Dunar ends up
going to Quantico, Virginia for this routine FBI training that following spring. And he happens to attend this
session that's being put on by some agents who have psychology backgrounds. And they're talking about this like
brand new idea, how studying a crime scene could give insight into the killer themselves. And with nothing to lose,
Dunar asks them if they will take a look at Sandy and Suz's cases. And they must
see it as a worthwhile challenge because they start to put together a psychological profile of the probable
killer. They say that Suzie was probably murdered within 2 days of her abduction
by a man who likely is white and in his 20s. He has to be at least modestly intelligent. They say he's a loner,
unmarried, and has little experience with women. They think he's a local guy, but has military experience and would be
physically fit. He most likely has killed before, and from those murders, he's probably kept souvenirs. [music]
And he's likely the type that would try to insert himself into an investigation,
>> which the blouse [music] hits two of those, right? Like a souvenir and inserting himself into the
investigation. >> Also, the calls taunting the Joerger family. [music] Actually, they say he
probably isn't even done doing that, even though it's been a while. Like, this is their like prediction, if you
want to say. They think that he is going to call again, and they think it's going
to be on a significant date. >> So, with the one-year anniversary of Sus's kidnapping coming up, agents work
with Marietta to make sure that she is prepared. >> Wait, they know this is David, right?
Like, I'm like checking everything off on the whole profile. This is again like profiling isn't proven at this point,
right? >> Not even it's not exact. The feds are like they're believing it. It's like
these local agents are like it's almost like brand it's like hoie, right? It's like I how there's no way you can know
this. It's not a proven thing. And so like [music] >> they're listening to them and they're
willing to like you know be prepared but they are less convinced because [music]
in their mind the thing that they know is polygraphs, >> right? >> David passed a polygraph.
>> They are known science already cleared him >> but they're still they're they're going
to move along with the plan. They let the press have access to Marietta for anniversary headlines,
knowing that that might trigger the kidnapper to call her. And Marietta is prepared to play her part, though she
has been haunted over this dream that she had. Like, it is so [music] vivid. She says it's like watching a movie. And
in this dream, she says she sees Susie being taken from her tent, put in a truck, and waking up afraid because
she's with a strange man. And the man takes her somewhere, undresses Susie, and then strangles her before
dismembering her. But maybe it's just a dream. Maybe those bones of a little girl they found aren't her little girl.
They still haven't proven it. She has to have hope, especially as the phone rings
on the morning of June 25th, 1974. Now, only the transcript of this has survived
from this call, and it is heartbreaking to read. The caller asks if it's Suz's mom that he's speaking to. And when she
says yes, he [music] says, "Well, I'm the guy who took her from you exactly a year ago to the minute." He says that
she's alive, but he can't give her back because he's gotten used to her. And Brett, I don't know how, but Marietta
keeps the kidnapper talking [music] for an hour. And in that time, he says that he and Susie have been traveling west
and sightseeing. And Marietta is like sobbing and begs the man to give Susie back, saying they will pay any amount.
>> But he says it's too late for that because if he gives Susie back, she'll be able to identify him. But Marietta
says like no one is going to make a child testify. Like you don't have to worry about her identifying you because
it would never make it to court, >> right? It would just never happen. I can't believe she's able to basically
negotiate with this man. >> I know. And at one point she actually does call his bluff saying that she
doesn't actually believe that he still has Suzie. She's like, "Prove it to me." Like, "Prove to me that she's alive."
>> But he can't. He says that he has been using psychotherapy to wipe her memory.
And Marietta goes, "How are you qualified to do something like that?" Now, he doesn't give a real reason. So,
she switches tactics and she asks how he knew that Susie was even in the tent. and he said that he'd been lurking
around the campsite that night and he had come by, heard her and her sister talking, but then he waited till they
fell back asleep >> and then he [music] took her. >> Okay, maybe we should add never go
camping to our list of life rules. >> Honestly, putting your kids in a different tent is one of mine. This is
not the only time something like this has happened. And something like this even happens like in recent memory of
mine, like it made headlines. It is rare, but it is legit nightmare fuel. Keep [music] your kids close.
>> Camping. Just because you're out in the middle of nowhere doesn't mean you're
out in the middle of nowhere alone. >> Right. >> So, this man tells Marietta that he has
been good to Susie and that he took her because he always wanted a little girl, which is
>> not what a mother wants to hear. And when Marietta asks where Susie is, at that very moment, he says that she is up
in his cabin sleeping. And when she asks again if Susie's okay, the kidnapper says yes [music] and talks about how he
could never kill a little girl like that. And like the man even gets emotional on the [music] phone before
hanging up. Now investigators study every detail of this call. This guy had a western accent. There was no
background noise, but it sounds like he's outside. And the FBI tries to trace the call, but for technical reasons, for
some reason, like this time it doesn't work. However, a few days later, they catch a lucky break because this Montana
rancher notices a suspicious call on his phone bill. Suspicious because it was over an hour long and placed at 3:25 in
the morning. So, he goes to the telephone company in Bosezeman to dispute the charge because he knows like
it's not like >> it's not my call. >> I'm not paying for it. Right. And when the employee makes a copy of the bill,
she notices the recipient of the call was William Joerger of Farmington Hills, Michigan. Remember, Sus's case was huge
there in Montana. She recognizes the Jerger name immediately. She knows this is the father of the missing girl. So,
she reports it to police. >> I mean, the you said lucky break. This is like a one ina million chance of this
happening. >> It's not even done. Odds get more wild from here because the farmhouse where
this call was placed from. That ranch is right next to the old abandoned ranch where the human remains and Sandy
Dykeman's car had been found. Now, when Agent Dunar interviews the rancher, he swears that his whole family had been
asleep when the call was made, and he has no idea how that call got made because all the doors were locked, so no
one could have come in and used their house phone and there wasn't even a break-in or anything like that. But come
to think of it, the rancher had recently seen some suspicious tire tracks out on
some land where he had another phone line. Now, it wasn't like an actual phone receiver that you could just like
pick up and use. It would take someone with knowhow to be able to tap into the line, but it was a possibility. Now,
he's not thinking about that back then, but he had been so bothered by the tracks on their own that he had
inspected them closely and noticed that they were made by a specific Goodyear tire. Tires that he knew were on the
truck of his former ranch hand, David Meerhoffer. Agent Dunar doesn't want to jump to
conclusions. >> I mean, I don't think anyone's doing any jumping at this point. All roads are
leading to David, >> but he doesn't want to go right to him. So, first he goes to a manager of the
local phone company to figure out how someone could have tapped into the phone line. Basically, he finds out it could
be done honestly with an ordinary phone as long as the person was familiar with phone lines and wires. And guess who has
telecom's experience from his military service? >> David. >> So, this convinces him enough that he
now needs to talk to David again. And he wants to get right to the point. We know
David already passed one polygraph, but agent Dunar convinces him to do another one. This time using truth serum.
>> Hello, 1974. >> I know. And by now, by the way, David has a lawyer, but he doesn't stand in
the way. And Brit, he passes again. >> Again? >> Yes. So, they let David Meyerhoffer
leave. And once again, Agent Dunar is convinced that David is probably not the man who killed Sandy and Susie. But
those FBI profilers, they are not so convinced. They try to make local authorities understand something about a
true psychopath. Like those kind of people can pass polygraphs all day long, even under the spell of truth serum. So
it's them who pushes agent Dunar. Just keep at David. So agents pay him another visit the next day asking if they can
search his [music] property. And David and his lawyer say like, "Sure, have at it." Which shocks me, though, because
[music] what agents find is incriminating [music] and downright creepy. It turns
out David is a record keeper. Investigators find a receipt timestamped for the same day and location. Remember
that first call that was made to the Jagger house, like the one from the gas station diner in Wyoming?
>> There's a receipt. Next, they find sheets with blood stains. Two unused Disneyland tickets, one of which is for
a child. They find a tube of lipstick. They find a little girl's blouse [music] and a necklace. David also has cut out a
ton of newspaper articles, some about the criminal investigations in which he's now the center of, and others that
seem almost like a to-do list. And there actually was one in particular that stands out. There was this article about
upcoming Girl Scout camps, their [music] dates and their locations, including a handdrawn map of Camp Silvercloud. Now,
what's so interesting about that is during the time when they had been looking at David, there had been an
attack on two girls who were at that camp. They were like on a walk in the trails when this man jumped out at them,
tried to strangle one with a robe before being scared off by the other. And they
were never able to determine who that guy was. But now they're pretty sure they know.
>> Yeah. Then there is the actual to-do list on stationery labeled things to do today. And he wrote easiest ways to
access the camps and wrote things like densely wooded and good cover. He even had a check mark next to camp
silvercloud. Like dude marked it off his list. Which [music] makes the next clipping that they find scary. David had
cut out a newspaper photo of a little girl named Karen Smith who was photographed fishing with her dad.
>> What was the date? So, around the 4th of July, which means they weren't too late.
Karen Smith was okay. And actually, even though this is an old case, our reporter
Emily got a hold of Karen Smith and interviewed her for this episode. She's a grandma now, living her best life, but
she says she was like 5 years old at the time, and the FBI sent an agent to basically be her bodyguard after this.
Because, keep in mind, David is not in jail. >> Yeah. >> This dude is free to roam. So, she
wasn't allowed to go out to recess with her friends. And this agent even crashed
on the family's couch. Basically, around the clock protection from David Meerhoffer.
>> Wait, like I I like knew he wasn't in jail, but how is he not in jail after this search?
>> I couldn't tell you because [music] nothing in the case file tells me, but Karen says she basically felt like she
survived a serial killer thanks to that agent. Yeah, but like I'm sorry. In what
world are bloody sheets and a little girl's shirt? Not to mention a crime to-do list, honestly.
>> But not enough to arrest this guy. >> Like like this kind of gets me conspiratorial because like why did he
even let them search so easily knowing what they would find? It's like it's almost like he felt untouchable.
>> That's exactly what I was going to say. >> And for some reason he was. Apparently,
David just like talks his way out of all of that stuff, saying like, "Oh, those sheets, those clothes, like those were
there when I bought the place." Now, I don't want to make it sound like they were just not interested in him anymore.
They're still very interested. They just, I guess, don't feel like they have an airtight case.
>> I mean, a to-do list. >> I know. So they what they do next is they arrange a voice lineup for Marietta
and Bill cuz remember they've talked to the kidnapper on the phone. They separately ID David Meyerhoffer as the
man who had been calling their house. Still police want [music] more. The FBI flies the Joers to Montana and arranges
a face-toface meeting between Marietta and David Meerhoffer. Again, his lawyer allows this because according to author
Ron Franel, who wrote the book Shadowman, which was a valuable resource when looking into this case, David's
lawyer still genuinely believes in his client's innocence. And David says straight to Marietta's face that he is
not the man who abducted Susie. But Marietta knows in her gut, she like she knows she was just face to face with the
guy who kidnapped her daughter. However, because he denies [music] it, they tell
her they can't do anything. >> I mean, what do you do? Like, you come all the way to Montana and they're just
going to like let him walk out of there. >> I don't know how they went back the first time and like to go back again to
not like knowing, you know, >> knowing you saw him. >> I I don't know. I don't know. But they
send them back to Michigan. [music] And the FBI profiler says that if David is their guy, he will want to regain power
over the situation. He's going to call Marietta again soon. That's what they say. And they say in the meantime,
they're going to be surveilling him, watching his every move. And they do a pretty good job. But one day in late
September, agents somehow lose track of him. [music] And of course, that's exactly when the phone rings at the
Jagger house. And Marietta didn't come to play. When she accepts the long distance call, she gets right to it and
she literally says, "Hello, [music] David." And listen, he tries to play dumb like, "Who's David? I don't know
what you're talking about." But Marietta is like, "David, I just sat across from
you. I know it's you." But he won't admit anything to her still. But he is still saying that he has Susie and he's
saying that Susie is safe. And so she says the same thing she said all along. Prove it. And that's when the voice of a
little girl comes on the phone and [music] says, "This guy, he's nice and I'm sitting on his lap." Now, Marietta
knows her daughter's voice. [music] Even after all this time, she would recognize
it. That was not her daughter. This call triggers an intense reaction from authorities. They swarm Manhattan,
Montana. But David's in the wind. Even his lawyer doesn't have tabs on him. And now that he seems to be on the run, the
county prosecutor agrees to an arrest warrant. But within 18 hours, David reappears in town swearing that he's
just like been there the whole time. But they find a piece of paper in his pocket
from the motel in Salt Lake City where they determine that last call to Marietta was made from. So now it's
over. And it's almost as if he wanted to get caught. And when investigators go back and tear apart his property looking
for more, [music] they realize they must have missed something the first time. And the most damning piece of evidence
is actually packed away in David's freezer. David Meerhoffer's freezer is filled
with many normal things. Packages of deer, elk, [music] frozen dinners. But among them is a package wrapped in
butcher paper with the letters SM [music] DS on the outside and inside is Sandy Dyman's hand. Fingers [music] with
nail polish severed from the palm. >> Wait, why didn't they find this when they searched before?
>> I don't know. [music] I guess this is their first foray into the freezer. I get the sense that like the first search
was pretty surface level. I don't know if it's cuz they found a [music] decent amount of stuff. They were like, "Surely
it's all out in the open." >> Maybe that's why he was fine with them looking. Like, you know, they didn't
find in the first search. What are you going to find this time? >> Well, they have it now. And there is no
more talking his way out of this situation. And David knows it now, too. He tells his lawyer that he will confess
to killing Sandy and little Suzy. But if the state agrees not to pursue the death
penalty, he'll also tell them about two other murders that he got away with. On September 29th, 1974, more than a
year since Sus's kidnapping, Agent Dunar and the county attorney sit down with David Meerhoffer. He admits abducting
Susie from her tent and taking her to his truck [music] and then to the abandoned ranch. He says that he
undressed her, but when he started to sexually assault her, Susie fought. So he strangled her.
>> I mean, that's just [music] like Marietta's dream. >> I know. He says that he ended up cutting
her up and scattered the remains and then burned them except for her head, which he put in the outhouse. And they
end up finding it just like he said. >> This monster tossed this little girl's head into an outhouse, which happened to
be the one place at the ranch [music] that they'd never searched. As for Sandy, he says that he went to her
apartment while she was sleeping and [music] jumped on her, strangled her, tied her up, and put tape over her
mouth. And he says that she must have suffocated under the tape because while he was packing her car, he came back and
[music] just found her dead. So, he took her body to the abandoned ranch and proceeded to conceal it in the same way
that he had Suz's. Dismemberment [music] and fire. Those two confessions weren't
really a surprise to anyone. I mean, even the dismemberment part, they had kind of determined that based on the
remains that they had found. The next confession, though, that one was a surprise. David said that he was the
person who killed Michael Rainey, [music] the 12-year-old boy scout who was found
stabbed in his tent at the same state park, but 5 years before Susie was taken, >> that people were talking about when they
were searching for Susie. The thing is, he gives no explanation for this other than he wanted to take a kid, but he
didn't take him. >> Exactly. It doesn't make much sense. And then the fourth murder that he confesses
to is another curveball cuz it's not like any of the other cases. And it was one that they really hadn't even been
considering a homicide. It was the death of a teenage boy named Bernie Pullman back in 1967.
So Bernie had been on a bridge above the river in Manhattan, Montana when he was
shot. And it had sort of been deemed an accident, like maybe Bernie caught like a wild or stray bullet from someone's
hunting rifle or something. And at the time, David was just a senior in high school when that happened. And he
doesn't give investigators any reason for that murder either. Not that there would like be a good one. And listen,
Agent Dunar asks David about a few other missing and murdered Montana girls and women, including Donna Lemon, but David
says he had no involvement in any of the other cases they bring up. He even denies being the hooded guy who tried to
take the girls from Camp Silvercloud, >> even though that was literally on his like murder to-do list.
>> Mark marked off, which like to me makes everything else he's saying like less
credible. Yeah. >> And then he wouldn't even entertain the idea of talking about cases outside of
Montana, even though he had lived in California during boot camp and Vietnam during his service. So, who knows if
David left a trail of cases in his wake? >> Wait, so [music] who was the little girl on the phone?
This This is what I'm like spiraling on. He refused to talk about that too. They
don't know if the voice Marietta heard was like a kid talking in real time. Maybe it was a recording.
>> I mean, either way, doesn't that prove that he was at one point in time with another kid? That is still a mystery.
They talked to people at least at the hotel, right? We know he like calls Maretta that time from a hotel in Salt
Lake. And they said they talked to people, but nobody remembered seeing anything odd or like they don't really
point out him. So, they we don't know if he was like even with a kid there. Was he solo there? I lean more toward the
idea that this was maybe recorded because he was only out of sight for 18 hours and I would assume that if another
kid went missing in that time >> and between those two locations >> it's also 19 like 70 right like I maybe
they don't know like if something but like I don't know to your point though when how he got that recording I don't
even know where is it now like he would have had to had it at the hotel like maybe a recording makes even less sense
like the thing is I'm fully convinced this man had more victims that we just don't know about. Because remember the
blouse and the necklace and like the lipstick found at his house. >> Here's the thing. Sandy and Suz's
parents were shown those items and they say that they didn't belong to their daughters. So those are probably
souvenirs from other girls and women, which means there might have been hope to get answers for other families. Maybe
they could do some kind of like plea to close out other cases that he was like most certainly connected to. But that
[music] never happened because just a few hours after his confession, David's found dead in his jail cell. He died by
suicide. This man's method of murder was essentially random, which is why it is so astonishing [music] to me that FBI
profilers were able to peg him so well. I mean, they predicted [music] the phone
calls. And, you know, it might have been partially luck, but it paved the way for
all of the criminal profiling that came after this because it made some of the doubters respect their craft a little
bit more. You know, something that really bugs me about these cases is that David only
called and taunted the Joerger family. Like, he didn't, as far as we know, torment any of the other victim's
families with phone calls. And nobody seems to know why. And actually, in the Donna Lemon case, like when they were
early on, like, oh, these are so separate. They're not connected. I think that was one of the reasons why they
never connected them or why he wasn't considered a serious suspect because he never called her family after her
murder. But then I go back to like, well, if he really only did that once that we know of,
>> then why would it >> why would that factor in like why aren't we considering him in Donna's case? We
know David traveled a lot. He was delivering machinery for his dad's company. [music] He could have easily
taken Donna to Idaho where she's found and left her there. >> And did they ever compare the stuff they
found at his place to Donna or like show any of that to her family? >> That's the thing. Like not that I know
of. No. [music] And like I mean I I kind of get maybe all these years later why people don't you would you would think
that he would have taken Donna to the same abandoned property that he took Sandy and like Susie to and maybe that's
why they're like oh well they're found together the other cases he confesses to her so long ago like Donna was like in
that same time frame he would have just taken her there but like I think that's saying like that's looking at that like
yeah sure logically that makes sense but that's not what we're dealing with >> right we interviewed Ron Francel for
this episode the author of Shadowman and he reminds is that it is a waste of time
to try and apply logic and reasoning to the actions of a psychopath. But as a crime junkie, it's hard not to think
about these things because somehow I think answers to other cases are in [music] there somewhere. Like why Susie?
Why then? And who else? Marietta wrote in her book that in the months leading up to their vacation that
summer, as she planned their trip to Montana, she developed a healthy fear of snakes and bears invading their
campsites. Never in her wildest dreams did she think that a man on the hunt for a child would be far worse than any
animal she could ever dream of encountering. But in the end, Marietta forgave David.
She went on to become an advocate for forgiveness and speaks openly against [music]
the death penalty.

In the summer of 1973, 7-year-old Susan “Susie” Jaeger vanished from her family’s tent while camping at Headwaters State Park near Three Forks, Montana. A hole had been sliced into the tent, her stuffed animals were left behind in the grass, and one of America’s earliest serial predator investigations had just begun.

In this episode, Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat unravel the terrifying story of David Meirhofer, a killer whose crimes shocked investigators and helped shape the FBI’s earliest work in criminal profiling.

You’ll learn about the abduction of Susan Jaeger on June 25, 1973, the disturbing phone calls made to the Jaeger family afterward, the disappearance and murder of Sandra Dykman in Manhattan, Montana, the earlier killing of Michael Raney at the same campground years before, and how investigators slowly realized these cases could all be connected.

As investigators dug deeper, they uncovered a remote ranch property tied to horrifying discoveries, a suspect who inserted himself into investigations, evidence linking multiple crimes across Montana, and one of the first real-world uses of FBI behavioral profiling to help identify a serial killer.

This case became a turning point in criminal investigations. Because while many investigators were still chasing physical evidence alone, the FBI’s early profilers believed the killer’s behavior could reveal who he was before anyone had proof. And they were right. -------- Follow Crime Junkie: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrimeJunkiePodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/CrimeJunkiePod Crime Junkie is created and hosted by Ashley Flowers.

About Ashley Flowers Ashley Flowers is the top female podcaster in the U.S. and the host of Crime Junkie, the #1 podcast among women and the #1 true crime podcast globally. As the Founder of Audiochuck, she has built a top-tier podcast production company that has garnered over 2.6 billion downloads, captivating audiences with its gripping storytelling through 10+ chart topping podcasts. Ashley and her team are dedicated to creating responsible true crime content that respects victims and their families.

Follow Ashley: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ASHLEYFLOWERS/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/ash_flowers TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ashleyflowerscrimejunkie Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ashleyflowers.af/

Check out these other great crime channels: @annieelise Mackenzie’s Cringey Jail Calls, TikToker & Her Dad Plan Murder, & Katie Price Missing Husband https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcOPMn33dvo @kallmekris The Mysterious Case Of The Death Valley Germans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-QXWqktVCo @KendallRae He Pretended To Be A LORD, Stole Millions & Now He’s Missing After Escaping Prison?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_FAJr97HOg @rottenmangopod Everyone The Internet Believes Helped D4vd Cover Up His Crimes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_xl734-qFk

Brief Summary

The episode details the kidnapping and murder of Susie Joerger, the investigation, and the eventual confession of serial killer David Meerhoffer.

Key points

The Disappearance of Susie Joerger. 12-year-old Susie goes missing from her family's campsite in Montana, sparking a frantic search.
The Kidnapper's Call. The kidnapper contacts the family, raising the ransom and revealing a chilling detail about Susie.
Chilling Phone Call. Marietta speaks to the kidnapper, who claims to have Susie, a year after her abduction.
David's Creepy To-Do List. Investigators find a disturbing list of targets and plans at David's property.
Marietta's Confrontation. Marietta directly confronts David during a phone call, insisting she knows it's him.
The Chilling Phone Call. Marietta hears her daughter's voice on a call, but it's not her daughter.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Prove to me that she's alive.

Marietta's desperate plea to the kidnapper.

28:22WatchJun 1, 2026

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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