How a Pattern Emerged in the Rhys Pocan Case (Part 2) | Forensic Files

the non-emergency dispatch line at the Shaban County Sheriff's Office in Wisconsin started to ring the caller
won't give his name but sometime before Sunrise he and his wife were walking in Nicholls Creek and they stumbled upon a
dead body there is a 35-year-old woman who was reported missing in August of 1989 named Reese poan there is a note in
her missing person's report about a gallbladder surgery scar that really raises some eyebrows and it's that scar
that helps detectives confirm their Jane Doe is without a doubt reys poan and I'll never forget this moment we were in
the office and Emily comes in and she's like hey I think Reese's case might be connected to a bunch of others and I
think there might be a serial killer in Wisconsin that nobody knows about except
for me by searching through newspaper archives and public records databases our reporter Emily started finding more
dismemberment victims in Wisconsin in the Years surrounding Reese's murder at least 12 people 11 of them women were
found whose heads or hands had been cut off during or after their murders now a handful of these women are still
unidentified and most of the cases have never been solved all in different jurisdictions for the most part yes yes
which we're thinking is maybe why no one has kind of looked at this holistically
before and like when you see this we haven't come across something like this like who are you supposed to tell I mean
like we have the most badass group of women here at audio cheu doing the absolute Lords work but like try calling
up the FBI and saying that you have a podcast and there might be a serial killer like honestly it's going to be a
little easier because crime junkie actually is pretty well known now we have a lot of law enforcement fans like
thanks guys but other podcasts have made fools of themselves by calling the FBI and they end up becoming the butt of
like internet jokes so Emily tried reaching out to various FBI field offices in Wisconsin but like only ever
got connected with a Pio who then never even returned a call or an email but undeterred she you know compiles
everything that she's found into a document that she sends off to detective hatch who trusts her and in turn he
sends it to the FBI field office in milwauke and here is what was in that document
our list begins in 1982 when the partial remains of a Jane do are found in calonia which is in southeast Wisconsin
according to the do project they're still trying to identify her but the woman was likely between 45 and 60 years
old and had given birth at some point in her life then in March of 1983 in rine which by the way is just 11 miles from
calonia a woman's arms hands and legs are found buried in a backyard she's identified as 51-year-old Helen
Sebastian I have truly become obsessed with Helen's case and I hope to bring you a whole episode on her one of these
days but today's not that day so 7 months after that in October of 1983 dismembered partial remains of a man are
found in petrifying Springs Park in Kenosha County a mere 15 minutes south of where Helen's dismembered body was
found this person is identified as 18-year-old Eric Hansen he's our only male victim now in may 1984 in Vernon
County which is Western Wisconsin a woman is found lying on the side of a gravel road a few miles outside of the
town of Westby with her hands cut off and major trauma to her head she has still never been identified but she was
likely in her 60s and wore Dentures that's what they know about her and her hands have still never been found now 30
minutes west of there in February 1985 24-year-old Terry doway is found decapitated and on fire in a rural part
of Veron County now Terry's case was unsolved but there actually was a break in the case in the fall of 2024 when
charges were brought against a man named Michael pop now he pleaded not guilty in
January of this year so developments in her case are actively underway unclear if pop is a suspect in any other cases
if this is like the outlier on all this I don't know it's still actively unfolding so then in the spring of 198 7
indigenous woman Ray torel lot's dismembered body is found on the monomon reservation in northern Wisconsin then
in the summer of 1989 we know ree vanishes from Milwaukee and then her remains are found in Shaban County and
then the Vernon Marsh area in wershaw County the next comes on Thanksgiving Day 1990 that's when the clothes and
skeletal remains of a Jane Doe are found by deer hunters in price County through
dental records they're identified as belonging to Susan pupart who is an indigenous woman who vanished from a
reservation in northern Wisconsin 6 months prior to being found now Susie's story has a lot of twists and turns our
reporters became really interested in it while researching these cases so that's
the one I'm actually going to be covering on the deck which again is the other weekly podcast I host so just keep
an eye out for that one as well also in the fall of 1990 a Jane Doe's dismembered remains are found buried in
a number of plastic bags near Black River Falls Wisconsin her torso is buried in one bag her limbs are buried
in a separate bag her head is never found and this woman is later identified as Julia bayz and I'm going to tell you
about her case in this episode but after her in 1991 a woman's body is found with
severed hands at the Goose Lake Wildlife Preserve in Daye County Wisconsin her hands had been cut off and are later
found in Walworth County she's laid to rest as a Jane do but later identified as Doris McLoud a Man convicted victed
of sex trafficking has long been suspected in the teenager's murder then in October 2002 Boy Scouts find the
skull and lower mandible of a jandoo in a ravine in St Croy County which is like
Far Western Wisconsin and authorities have said that they likely belong to a Native American woman between the ages
of 35 and 50 and then lastly in 2021 you heard that right 2021 a skull is discovered which is
found way up North not far from Vias County the skull is missing a lower Jawbone and last I heard investigators
are working with anthropologists to determine who it could have belonged to But A source told us that they thought
that this person could have been Native American and here's the wild part so that is our list that we're working with
m one of the women on that list the one I said I'm going to be covering Ray Tor aot she's Reese Pam's cousin what yeah
the connections are too bizarre to ignore there really should have been a Statewide task force or something but
because the cases were mostly in separate counties no one was connecting the dots until now so I need to step
back from Reese's story and tell you about two of the other cases that we're going to dive into starting with Reese's
cousin Ray torlot so if you Google Ray the first thing that pops up is this beautiful portrait of her when she was a
monoman tribal princess and from the people we spoke to it sounded like Ry was very involved on the reservation and
the reservation is the last place she was ever seen on October 14th 1986 that's when Ry who was 18 at the
time went to a small house party at the time the Green Bay Press Gazette reported that there were six other
people at that party all of whom Ry was friends with so the story goes like this on October 14th Ry says that she
wants to leave the party and she gets a ride from one of the other partygoers but when they get to her house she
doesn't want to go inside so they kind of just drive around the reservation for a while and then they head back to the
party and then a little while later Ry leaves the party again but no one knows exactly when she ducked out that time or
if she was with anyone when she did I'm assuming this is all happening a little while after midnight but honestly the
reports are like they're really Slim not super detailed so she walks out and then
poof she is just gone she never makes it home and the next day she's nowhere to be found she gets reported missing to
the Tribal Police who act pretty quickly to put together search parties with canines like they question everyone at
the party that night they contact other reservations and Indian centers and they
also searched the house where the party was but they didn't find anything helpful so this search for Ray goes on
for 2 and 1/2 weeks but there is just no sign of her and around this time the tribal police chief tells the Green Bay
Press Gazette quote I've kind of given up a little bit but I'll be out there looking again later on well that's not
exactly what you want to hear from an investigator no but like to his credit I mean he actually contacts the FBI for
assistance in the search but they basically tell him that they can't conduct a fullscale investigation
without evidence of a crime they say there is quote nothing to indicate to us that Foul Play was involved or that
there was a federal problem which is like a frustrating response to me especially considering like it is tribal
land and that is FBI jurisdiction and for me I always like can't quite wrap my head around the statement there's no
evidence of Foul Play because there isn't evidence of not Foul Play like what does that mean yeah and it's
usually the families right who are shouting that from the rooftops and that's how it was for ry's family ry's
mom Josephine tells the local papers that Ry had gone off on her own before but it was usually for like 3 or 4 days
and they always knew where she was Josephine says that Ry didn't seem unhappy or distressed before the party
and apparently she had planned to be in a friend's wedding several days after she went missing plus right before Ry
went missing she had just become a mom her newborn daughter Elise was not even 2 months old and listen I know new
moming is like the hardest thing in the world I cannot imagine doing it at 18 but everyone who knew Ry felt it in
their bones she wouldn't have left her daughter but as for detectives with no leads they're like really scraping the
barrel they even connect with a Native American psychic from Chicago who apparently tells them that Ry is either
dead or in serious trouble and the psychic actually describes an area where Ray's body might be which detectives
promptly search to no avail it's always so wild to me that psychics were just like regularly involved in
investigations back then and like and why they write them off so much now like and actually in particular this psychic
their name's Robin Ferman and she used her Clairvoyant abilities to help with a number of police investigations in
Wisconsin and other states she claimed that she could get impressions basically of missing people and I'm not sure if
it's because of Robin or because of something else that I don't know about but around this time investigators
changed their tune finally to say that they do believe that Rey may be dead but when asked whether or not Foul Play is
involved in the case they say and I'm quoting here yes and no and before you ask like I have no idea what they meant
by that investigators never really explain that cryptic answer but they do tell reporters that they have several
suspects including the men who like Ry allegedly got a ride with like from the party like to her house and then back
wait do detectives know who they are so they do but no names are ever released to the public in fact I've never seen
names in Criminal Cas is so closely guarded the chief of the Tribal Police Chief Keith torot wouldn't even tell us
their names off the Record quick question is torlot a common name there or no so here's the thing so
the chief is actually Ray's cousin would that also make him cousins with reys yep
I think they were like first cousins once removed so like this case is personal for him I would say anyway they
believe they know who gave Ry a ride again that first time we're not talking about like we don't know of anyone who
like after the second time she left from the party back to the party right but they clearly don't have proof of
anything because months go by without any arrests or new information it's just like this flood of rumors but those
rumors must hold a little truth to them or just the sheer amount of time that goes by with no word from Ry finally
holds more weight cuz 4 months in investigators officially announced that Ray Tor A lot's case has become a murder
probe and that they're calling in the FBI now again investigators won't say why they believe Ry was murdered they
say they have a suspect in mind but just not enough evidence for an arrest again
names of the suspect or suspects Never released and then in April of 1987 2 months later detectives are finally able
to prove their assumption Ry was murdered the announcement comes after a hunter stumbles across a bra strap while
he's out walking in a remote area of the monomane Indian Reservation which leads
him then to a headless female body pretty much every article at the time about the discovery mentions Rey in some
way so she is definitely on investigators minds but they don't want to say anything without proof it's 3
days later when Josephine is able to identify the body as belonging to her daughter based on her clothing and then
a scientific identification comes through DNA testing but that doesn't happen for 10
years but at the time detectives trust Josephine's word now an autopsy is also done and the manner of death is ruled a
homicide but Chief torlot told us that for a number of reasons mainly the state of the decomposition and the swampy area
where the body was found and the missing head the coroner wasn't able to determine a cause of death and honestly
Brit after this ruling very little progress at all is made in Rey's case and as much as we tried to dig into this
case on our own we ran into a lot of hurdles and a lot of roadblocks for one as Chief torlot told us ry's case File
is very thin her investigation went cold almost immediately and the work that has
been done has been like extremely Hush Hush plus people on the reservation are hesitant to talk about it even to Elise
Ray's daughter when I was growing up I really didn't hear a lot of stuff like that in
that per se I would just hear like people just say say like oh you look like your mom or oh your mom was really
nice dancer and I mean um she's I mean they would just say that they wouldn't talk about the actual I think it it
seemed like it was like that whole part was shielded from me honestly it's really hard to
talk about with everybody on the reservation I want to say I think it really hit hard for everybody when that
happen I can see how much pain it is for them honestly still like you can still see it
to this day like it happened yesterday it was a very touchy subject I guess you want to say for everybody honestly the
people who are at the house I mean those are her friends you know what I mean I think they've carries a certain kind of
guilt about that I asked one time I said I was like can we talk about that can we talk about that night and then
they were they actually were like no I don't want to talk about it and it's weird because it's me that's saying it
that's asking them it's something that has bothered me a lot I mean if you really looked at how close
this house was where she was to where my grandparents live it's literally a block
away that's crazy maybe because of a lack of cooperation maybe for a zillion other reasons the investigation stalls
though no excuse is an acceptable one to elely and her family they don't feel like investigators did enough at the
time and she's heard that there was lost evidence in the case and she thinks that
multiple agencies didn't coordinate well it seemed to her to just be a mess but they didn't just mess up a job the way
that you or I might screw up like a spreadsheet this is her mom's literal life and you only get one shot at the
early days of an investigation and now that's lost investigators hope back then was that if they could find Ray's head
maybe that would give them some physical evidence to work with but they searched
for five months without locating it were her hands removed like Reese 2 I don't know because not all of Ray's remains
were found police told us that it was only her lower half that was found and that and again we know her head was
never found and Ray aside is there any theory around why so many of the Wisconsin dismemberment hands and heads
were removed I mean to prevent identification but could there be some other reason yeah we kept asking
detectives that very question during our reporting and nobody could say for sure
I mean they pointed out that obviously if a killer was like a seasoned criminal like you're saying they might do that
for identification purposes it's also possible that this is like depending on you know who the killer was what the
relationship the motive was like just pling Revenge could be another Factor we also had some sources tell us that in
certain cultures it is a belief that someone can't rest in peace without being buried fully intact so there could
be several different factors at play but to go back to Ray's case we spoke with Chief torela and he said he still has
suspects in Ray's case and no one has been excluded as a person of interest unfortunately though lots of people that
he wanted to talk to have since passed away and he hoped maybe for a deathbed confession in this case but that's never
happened he did do some DNA testing though on what I don't know on what he wouldn't tell us but I think the what is
the wrong question because this what I was getting to there is a question that is far more interesting to
[Music] ask at one point Chief torot said that he had his DNA tested to prove that he
wasn't involved like the FBI asked him for it or he did that as part of his investigation not clear like we tried to
ask the FBI but they never got back to us and chief toot said no one has been ruled out as a person of interest
correct but he's also been working this case since the beginning like he's the guy that's been heading it up from the
tribal side for almost 30 years so I feel like the FBI would have stepped in if he was a real person of interest I
don't know and for all I know there is isn't even DNA evidence to compare stuff to like that's something that they
wouldn't share it's all so muddy and complicated and we were this close to getting an interview with one of the
detectives working on this case Emily actually reached out to the detective who is directly assigned he agreed to
talk but then Chief torlot wouldn't authorize the interview and since our coverage has been ongoing for like years
now we even went back and asked again and the detective said that he isn't allowed to do media interviews I don't
know if that's because the shared jurisdiction with the FBI or why everyone is so Hush Hush on Ray's case
why Chief torlot doesn't want him talking but it seems like they don't want people asking questions or like
getting the word out which in my opinion just hurts their chances of actually receiving tips in her case yeah so at a
certain point in her adulthood Elise gets to the point where she feels like she needs to take matters into her own
hands conduct her own interviews with Ray closest friends and honestly her primary goal isn't even to get her mom's
murder solved she wants to just learn more about her mom and keep her name alive through
conversation it sucks because I don't I don't have memories I think we have two pictures together I think
that's all we have and it sucks because I don't know what she was like I don't know I hear a lot of stuff but I wish I
got to know that myself um not knowing how her voice is like what was my mom's favorite color
was she a dog person she um what was her favorite hobbies what is she like doing
cuz I don't know any of that stuff is that stuff her family can share with her didn't you mention something about ry's
mom so yeah Josephine and Rey had a sister too and that's who Elise lived with and she had her dad but elely she
said she never felt like she could ask questions because anytime Ry would come up it would just make everyone so upset
so she really grew up with her mom being this like taboo subject in her family and of course we know the
extended family is also Reckoning with the death of another relative were they close like I know
cousins can mean like very different things for different families know I know we don't know exactly how close
they were as cousins but they definitely crossed paths on the monomane reservation where they grew up Reese's
daughter Michelle remembers seeing Ry perform at powow or like traditional Native American culture celebrations she
performed as a dancer and I know that Rees knew about Ray's murder because of a tip that hatch found buried in Reese's
case File a tip in Reese's case File about Rey and it is chilling the tip is from a woman named Geraldine or Jerry
one of Reese's friends from church and when interviewed by police in 19 1990 Geraldine reveals that just 2 months
before reys went missing reys confided something in her and Rees had stated that she was scared and depressed and
when Geraldine questioned her Reese indicated that Reese was in danger ree confided in Jerry that she was afraid
that she would end up like her cousin Ray tortilla commented something to the effect that he's going to cut off my
head he already killed my cousin Reese had supposedly made this individual really mad at her and he swore he was
going to do this to her he who this is GNA Eat You Alive she told Jerry a name but Jerry couldn't remember the name you
got to be kidding me I wish she basically predicted exactly what was going to happen to her I know it seems
almost impossible that investigators never connected the two murders but they just never compared notes in fact we
actually connected the investigators in both cases just this past year in October 2024 and that's when they
finally sat down and had their first ever meeting wait I don't understand Reese told someone that she was afraid
that she was going to end up like her cousin that someone was mad at her someone was going
to uh well we're not saying that on video we can't say that anymore okay someone was going to yes a couple months
later the exact thing happens exactly like she predicted and no one looked into it not until our reporting team
came along I wish these different counties would just talk to each other more I know so they're talking 2024 but
like no huge breakthroughs happened at this fall meeting it did finally bring together Tribal Police the County
detectives the feds the state investigative agencies they basically went down the POI list in both Ray and
Reese's case to see if there were any overlaps unfortunately it like all comes back to like what is the name that reys
told Jerry like who was she afraid of but nobody knows I do know that what comes out of this big meeting everyone
coming together is that investigators detectives all left that meeting with a new to-do list full of leads that they
wanted to follow up on that are still underway as of this recording of this episode and the whole jurisdiction thing
seems to be a major hurdle though not just in Ry and ree's cases but in most of the Wisconsin dismemberment cases
that Emily and I found and I asked detective hatch about these two has there been any
determination on whether any of them are connected or suspected to be fully no um
and I've reached out to a handful of the uh detectives that from some of those cases and got like a thumbnail of the
scenario of what happened in those cases I didn't hear anything that would lead me to believe that they are related um
except for one that is really interesting to me can you talk about the one that you think think there's
potential for it yeah there there's um a woman named Julia Bez she was I believe
36 years old um I believe she was Puerto Rican and she was a mother of four and she was ultimately um abducted from
Milwaukee and in October of 90 her dismembered body was found in um plastic bags garbage bags in a shallow grave by
mus hunters in the village of Brockway which is in Jackson County directly across the river from Black River Falls
so I reached out to the sensitive crimes unit at Milwaukee Police Department and
I was able to get my hands on a report and as I put Julia's address it was only just a few blocks from Rees and it was
only a half a block from National Avenue in Reese's direct [Music] path so that brings us to our next case
Julia bayz known to most people as Julie she was last seen in June of 1990 about
9 months after rees's disappearance unfortunately we don't know the exact date that Julie was last
seen alive because she isn't reported missing until nearly 5 months after the fact nobody noticed she was gone for
five months well because of different relationships and reportedly Julie's prior drug use her two sons weren't
living with her one of them was with his dad another was in foster care and then
her 14-year-old daughter Marisol was with her father in New Jersey and then Julie's 10-year-old daughter also named
Julie was in foster care in Milwaukee plus according to Julie's half sister L the one who eventually does report her
missing Julie lived this very transient lifestyle so L tells police that Julie made a habit of going off on her own and
she would like return weeks later I don't know where she would go and actually Julie's daughters don't
remember even their mom doing that but apparently L began to get concerned nobody in the family had heard from
Julie in a while she wasn't with their mom in Puerto Rico and her apartment manager hadn't seen her around at all
there in fact according to police reports that we got through a records request it had been so long since the
apartment manager had seen Julie that he actually moved her stuff into storage in
Julie's missing persons report L tells police that she last Saw Julie June 18th 1990 at a Tavern about 5 minutes from
Julie's apartment and that Julie left the bar after having an argument with her boyfriend Pedro so police looked at
Pedro it seems like they're at least initially suspicious of him but on paper it never led to anything official so of
course we did some of our own digging the day that Julie went missing her daughter Marisol was with her grandma
Julie's mom and Marisol remembers the last conversation she had with Julie to me she had said that she was going out
with a friend they were going to go out uh dancing somewhere so um and that was the friend was picking her up it was a
girlfriend of hers that she was always with and they went out and she just never came back so she went out socially
the night she disappeared which is sad because now I see it like you know that was the last time and I didn't even
realize it was going to be the last time do we know which is correct was she meeting a girlfriend or Pedro that last
night so based on interviews that we did and then the records that we got I actually think both stories are true we
learned that Julie actually went out with her bff Maricella at a Tavern where they were regulars and a Tavern where
Pedro was known to play in a band that's where Julie and her girlfriend supposedly went dancing that night and
the bar is no longer there but for our Milwaukee crime junkies it was at 15th and Mitchell and it was possibly called
the El wano lounge and reports state that L again this is Julie's sister it's actually half sister it says that she
was at the bar that night so she tells police that Julie and Pedro got into an argument and that Julie left never to be
seen again was Pedro interviewed I wish I knew like again the police reports we got through the open records request are
like super thin I know police at least got a statement from Mariella the friend that she was with that night obviously
they got a statement from L's but they didn't give us any copies of like the friend statements or any of the
follow-up reports about Pedro if there were any and so that was basically it like there were some routine follow-ups
on Julie every few years to see if she had like renewed her driver's license or if any of her kids had heard from her
but at some point with no more viable leads the case just went cold and I'm talking like completely cold no other
followup is done until 2012 and this whole time she's just missing yeah she's never found but also it doesn't seem
like police were actually looking for her because literally there's this note in the case File in August 2012 mind you
this is 22 years after she goes missing and B I'm going to have you read it cuz like I think it's shocking it says on
4412 at 2:40 p.m. Squad 2131 went to the address of 825 South 23rd Street Number
6 to conduct followup regarding the missing person Julia bayz at the address we found that apartment number six does
not exist the building only houses Apartments 1 through 5 this was confirmed by the mailboxes and meters
located in the rear of the building there was also no bz on the mailboxes what I know it's 22 years
later and also this apartment doesn't exist 22 years later but like what does that mean does it does it actually mean
anything and like of course her name isn't on the mailbox 22 years later right so the thing I I also don't know
is like there's nothing in the report to say why an officer was even sent there in the first place like did they get a
tip for some reason again they can't possibly think they were going there to see Julie the notes say follow up on
what I know and like it's possible again maybe someone all those years ago gave the wrong address for her or someone
made an error writing it down or something I really don't know again as for why 22 years later I'm assuming I
have to think someone called in and asked for an update or made a tip I it just doesn't make sense to me and I
can't make sense of it with what they gave us yeah basically they learned nothing seems that way yeah and over the
next 3 years there is this like annual followup with the case but the reports are never more than a couple of
sentences long and in 2013 detectives call the number on file for Julie but like it's no longer in service duh like
so they check with the Department of Transportation to see if she updated her address but it hadn't been updated since
around the time she went missing and then it's the same story in 2014 and then in this 2014 report the detective
writes that Julie was reported missing by L in 2010 which is just like straight up wrong but this detective at least
tries to contact l unsuccessfully I mean did they try to contact her children or
do more followup with Pedro or the friend she was at with not that I know of and actually we tried to reach Pedro
and her friend too but no luck so come 2014 Marisol her daughter decides she needs to put some pressure on
investigators now that she's older and she can understand the situation a bit more she goes back to the police station
herself initially when I went to the police department they're like hire private investigator and I was pretty
upset at that and you know I was like to do your job you know because it's not like we can afford to hire anyone I know
my mom is a Jane though somewhere I know my mom would not just come back and not
see us or you know her mom um so he finally listened and he he that's when he you know collected DNA samples and
what do you know 8 months later in July of 2015 Detectives call Marisol and her sister Julie back down to the station
their DNA had been a match to a Jane Do's Remains What Jane Doe where where and when so as it turns out on October
10th 1990 so this is 4 months after Julie disappeared a man in Black River Falls a city 3 hours West of Milwaukee
was out foraging for mushrooms when he stumbled upon a garbage bag containing a human arm and leg and then when police
descend on this area and search it they find more bags of dismembered remains nearby in a shallow grave and it looks
like it had gotten partially dug up by animals now according to the Jackson County Sheriff quoted in the lacrosse
Tribune at the time most of the parts were bones but some still contained some flesh and after a thorough search of the
area officials told the papers that the only body part that they could not find was a head and according to marasol this
discovery site was near a reservation as well just like in Ray's case and if Black River Falls sounds familiar
remember Larry Reese Pan's violent ex-boyfriend yeah yeah remember he now lives in Black River Falls but at the
time no one makes the potential connections police in Milwaukee and Jackson County where Black River Falls
is aren't even thinking about Ray torot or ree pooke camp they're telling local news outlets that the body was likely
dumped by someone traveling through the region because this spot is a halfway point between the Twin Cities and
Milwaukee and they say quote people feel they're in a remote area plus there were
no missing people in their County and I almost couldn't believe this when I read
it but the Jackson County Sheriff said quote Jackson County is not the only place anything like this has happened
there are lots of them there have been bodies found in Vernon lacrosse marathon and Juno counties all over the state you
have heads without bodies bodies without heads bodies without hands Jackson County is not by itself in any way is
this his way of telling the public not to Panic or is he like trying to connect things listen I don't know but I'm
willing to bet that the sheriff only said this to somehow make the situation seem less like a big deal like oh don't
worry residents there is nothing wrong with our County this dismemberment stuff is happening everywhere oh I feel way
better now I know and now again when he's making the statement like the remains are still unidentified but I'm
kind of shocked that it took so long if they were looking for missing women far and wide now the timing on all of this
gets a little unbelievable because they only ended up doing DNA testing on this dough months before Marisol gets
Milwaukee py to take her DNA which is two decades later yeah and what's also wild is that in all that time Marisol
had been looking for her mom and she told us that she had seen that Jane Doe's name is Page a ton it's so crazy
because I had gone into the Jane do Network year after year and I had seen the Jane do from Black River
Falls I would see it and I would always say no uh age would say like from 20 to 30 my mom was 36 Caucasian even though
my mom was very light complected she was Hispanic and it also said she had a tattoo of a mushroom and I was like my
mom didn't have a tattoo come to find out the tattoo of the mushroom was the imprint of the the remains um on a
mushroom field because that's where she was found so it had imprinted I guess on
the skin as she decomposed and I had see every year I would see it and I just keep going like no that's not her for
Marisol and little Julie just knowing where their mom was provided a huge relief
Julie had gone her whole life thinking that her mom had just abandoned them as a kid she was in and out of 12 different
foster homes until she was finally adopted to find out that she did not abandon me and that she wanted me um is
a big pack in my life because I have a child now and I would not do that I would not I don't want to live without
not knowing and not and not having to tell my child that you know her grandmother didn't care about me cuz her
grandmother did care about me your mom loves you a certain way there's nobody in the world that's going to love you
like your mom finally with a name for their Jane do the Jackson County Sheriff tells the Leader Telegram that they're
going to get to the bottom of who killed her that before it was hard because they
didn't have the name of their victim didn't have a starting point but all that was going to change starting now
well that was in July of 2015 unfortunately from what I can tell no further breaks ever come in the case we
put in a records request for the investigative files in Julie's case that got denied the only reason we know the
little we do is from like an incident report we also asked for interviews with detectives who like have her case or
jurisdiction they denied our requests Emily did speak on background to a law enforcement Source who worked on the
case but that Source doesn't work for the Jackson County Sheriff's Office anymore so like we didn't get a ton and
it doesn't seem like they ever even considered that their dismemberment case could be connected to any others because
Marisol and Julie by the way didn't even know about Reese poan or Ray torlot cases until we brought them up in our
interview and she disappeared 9 months before my mom you know in Milwaukee so close yeah that wow I had no idea the
fact that also a mother also in the same area they were getting away with murder
and then you know just the fact that there's so many there's so many out here and so many families too that like ours
just you know we don't know we just have to sit here and wonder and hope it's really only detective hatch in Shaban
County who's trying to shed light on all the similarities between these cases we
show to the Jackson County Sheriff's department and um found out that there was evidence physical evidence that they
had um there's nobody actively working on the case but there's a detective that was assigned that case and that my
request to them was to see if there was evidence that had been sent or not sent hopefully they would send all that
evidence to a uh crime laboratory to maybe identify any kind of you know DNA or evidence related to a suspect hatch
is also working with Jackson County authorities to see if anyone on ree poan suspect list matches anyone in Julia Bay
as's case File and he presented to the FBI's Cold Case homicide task force about all of these Wisconsin
dismemberment cases some of which were not even on their radar so these are all cases I wish I had more to bring you on
but we felt like the best thing we could do at this point is to just like get everything we do have out there for
people to hear because maybe someone out there knows something about these Wisconsin Women and are one man maybe
someone is in law enforcement and they have a similar case that we don't even know about from that time period And if
nothing else maybe everyone can just come together and let Charlie and Michelle and Elise and Marisol and Julie
all know that their mothers haven't been forgotten that for this one moment millions of people across the world are
thinking about their moms and I believe there's so much power in the collective human consciousness you might call it
prayer whatever we call it however we direct our intentions to a singular focus of peace and Justice I do believe
it's powerful I had likeed you know them to find who did it and you know to finally have that closure different
piece of you is always missing when you don't know who did this why they did it where they are who they are it would be
really nice to have that type of closure for sure I just want Justice I think after we find who did
this to her I think that's the only only time I'll be able to feel Rel cuz my mom didn't
deserve this she did why did you do it it's not just my mom but it's somebody's sister
somebody's friend it's Somebody's Daughter it's somebody's it's my son's Grandma you
know what I mean it's something that has hurt our family and I don't know what that looks
like for us to get over that I don't I don't know what that is for all of us honestly maybe one day
we'll get justice but at the same time me talking about it doing this and helping other families that's my own
personal Justice cuz even if my mom's case doesn't get solved at least I know that I'm kind of spreading awareness for
other families that are in the situation and helping them and hopefully one day that they'll do the same this idea of
speaking up of bringing attention to the cases of women of color was echoed by Ry
hulia and Reese's daughters here's ree's other daughter Michelle why does it have
to be our own are the only ones that keep that flame going why can't somebody else help us
because they know a lot of our people they tired too and that's sad thing about it I'm hoping that when somebody
hears they listen and they help you know in any which way that they can you know
if it's news people get us out there too let our people be seen get the law enforcement
out there as hard as they do for any but any other race on the night news and everything you know CNN and it's like
well what about ours where do we where do we F in all this and if something were to happen you see
something say something if you see something a right try to help them because some women we
we don't say anything that's the thing and I know a lot of us think we're strong but we're we can only be strong
so much crime junkies please help us get Justice for Ray and Julia and all of the
Wisconsin dismemberment victims from the get our Hope was to tell all of these stories 12 total and that's still Our
Hope but there's just not enough information out there we've tried getting interviews with detectives in
all of the cases we filed records requests with little success but let's make sure that the conversation doesn't
end here I'm going to put a list of the cases that we want more information on in the description for this episode and
on our website so if you have any information at all about about the murders of ree poan Ray torlot or Julia
bayz or if you know anything about the pattern of dismemberments in Wisconsin please reach out to Detective Nathan
hatch at the Shaban County Sheriff's Office you can reach him at his office line 920 459
3135 or at his email nathan. hatch Shaban county.com or you can message us as well if you know something or if
you're a loved one of one of these victims please drop us a line we are counting on you to help us tell these
long overlooked stories and finally get some justice and answers for these victims and their families make sure you
like And subscribe so you don't miss the new episodes we're posting every week [Music]

Today we reveal the twist in the Rhys Pocan case, as we delve deeper into a chilling investigation that caught the attention of detectives in Sheboygan County Wisconsin. We explore the possibility that Reese Pocan’s case might be linked to a series of unsolved mysteries, including those of Helen Sebastian, Eric Hansen, Terry Dolowy, Rae Tourtillott, Susan Poupart, Doris McLeod, and Julia Baez, raising questions about a potential serial killer operating unnoticed in the state. With meticulous research, our dedicated reporter Emily compiled a detailed document that was submitted to FBI field offices in Wisconsin, drawing connections between the victims and multiple Jane Does found in conditions eerily similar to Rhys Pocan’s. The investigation includes familial ties, such as Rhys Pocan’s cousin, Chief Tourtillott, and Rae Tourtillott, who was last seen at a party with no clear record of her departure. This video features exclusive interviews with key figures like Alysse Corn, daughter of Rae Tourtillott, Marisol Rodriguez and Julie Carrasquillo, daughters of Julia Baez, and Detective Nathan Hatch of the Sheboygan County Sheriff’s Office. What could all these incidences have in common and how much closer are we to finding Justice for Rhys Pocan?

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Brief Summary

Wisconsin's unsolved murders of women reveal connections and systemic failures in investigations, impacting victims' families deeply.

Key points

Emily's Investigation. Reporter Emily uncovers a series of dismemberment victims linked to Reese's case.
Ray Torlot's Mysterious Disappearance. Ray Torlot vanishes after a party, leading to a complex investigation with few leads.
Psychic Involvement. Detectives consult a psychic who claims Ray is either dead or in serious trouble.
Investigation Stalls. The investigation into Ray's case becomes cold, raising concerns about lost evidence.
A Daughter's Quest for Truth. She seeks to learn about her mother, not just solve a murder case.
Chilling Confessions. A friend reveals a haunting prediction made by Reese before her disappearance.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The connections are too bizarre to ignore.

The realization of the connections between the cases.

6:53WatchMar 13, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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