What Happened During Carmen Van Huss's Final 30 Minutes? | Forensic Files

Hi, crime junkies. What you're about to hear is an episode that we originally recorded and released in the Crime
Junkie fan club back in January when this case was still actively unfolding. But in the months since then, there have
been some major developments. So today, we wanted to bring this story to a broader audience. You'll get to hear the
full episode that has never been released wide. And then I'm going to come back in towards the end and pick up
where our reporting in January left off to tell you how this case was ultimately
resolved. Hi crime junkies. I'm your host Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. And today's story begins
at the Turtle Creek Apartments, part of a gated community on the northwest side of Indianapolis, Indiana. The complex is
made up of two buildings, four wings and three floors per wing. That's 262 apartments in total. And on March 23rd,
1993, around 1:00 a.m., something terrible is happening inside one of them. Neighbors who are awake hear loud
screams coming from apartment 302A. And those who weren't awake before are now. It's so loud and the walls are so thin
that they can hear what this woman is saying. Get off me. She repeats this between crying and banging noises. Get
off me. There is no mistaking these cries for horseplay or teenage antics, even though they know the tenant is
young, a 19-year-old girl named Carmen Van Hus. But no one cares. Our reporter Nicole Kagan spoke to one neighbor who
lived in the apartments right across the hall from Carmen's and he said, "I just
heard a scream in the middle of the night. I turned over and went back to bed. That's all I know. Not a single
person gets up. Not a single person goes to her door. No one even bothers to pick
up the phone and call 911. For 30 minutes, she screams and struggles before one set of hurried footprints can
be heard, leaving and disappearing into the night, and everyone just goes back to sleep. For decades, people who should
have helped Carmen in life and in death have turned their back on her. But thanks to one tenacious man who believes
in doing the right thing, someone has finally been charged with Carmen's murder. And the trial that decides his
fate is about to begin. Though none of Carmen Van Hus's neighbors could be bothered to call
police or check on her when they heard her screaming for 30 minutes straight, at least one person did take the time to
call the apartment management and file a noise complaint. There was a handwritten
note from management tacked to her door when Carmen's dad, James, arrived a day later to check on her. He had gotten a
voicemail from Carmen's friend, Missy, who said that Carmen had been a no- call no-show for work that day, and she had
tried to go check in on her, but she wasn't really familiar with where she lived. She ended up kind of getting lost
on the way to her complex. So, she's hoping that Carmen's dad could go by and check on her. He likely saw the note
first, the one scolding his daughter for being too loud and reminding her to be more considerate of her neighbors moving
forward. But there would be no moving forward. He knew that instantly when he opened the unlocked door of the studio
apartment. I mean, he had a direct line of sight to his daughter, clearly dead, lying on the floor next to her bed
covered in blood. And the whole apartment was a mess. I mean, the living room table was knocked over. Clothes
were scattered across the floor, and there was blood everywhere. It was splattered on the walls and smeared in
the kitchen. I mean, James couldn't bear to take another step inside. So, he belineed to the neighbor's apartment and
banged on the door so he could use their phone to call 911. When Marian County Sheriff's detectives responded that
evening, Sergeant David Wils takes charge of the investigation while lab techs process the scene. I mean, it's
obvious to them that there was a struggle inside Carmen's apartment, but they suspect right away that the
interaction with her killer may have actually started out friendly because there's no sign at all of forced entry.
And there are some fast food cups and some bottles of beer that make it seem like she might have been maybe even
eating a meal with someone before things took a turn. >> And how do they know that that stuff is
from that night? Well, I mean, they don't I mean, not for sure. But food or no food, they still end up thinking that
things started out friendly with her killer because after they talk to neighbors, many of them report having
heard Carmen come home at around 11:00 p.m. and it sounded like she was with a man. They hear the two of them talking,
laughing as they walk up the hall to her door. >> And then like 2 hours later, she's
screaming for help. >> Yeah. And Lord only knows what happened in those 2 hours. But the escalation was
severe. Carmen had 60 stab wounds to her head, face, body, and genitalia. And the
attack was apparently so violent that the stab wounds to her head penetrated her skull.
>> And what was the murder weapon? Like a knife? >> That is actually still unknown. Now,
multiple different news outlets over the years have published that Carmen was likely stabbed to death with a
screwdriver or a pocketk knife. But investigators told our reporter that while the wounds were consistent with
something like that, something small and pointed, could have been a screwdriver,
could have been a pocketk knife, the actual murder weapon has never been found. And neither of those objects turn
up in Carmen's apartment or anywhere else in the course of their investigation. There is plenty of other
evidence, though. They collect evidence from Carmen's body at autopsy and from the scene. They collect a bedspread,
clothing, bloodied items in the kitchen that the asalent likely touched. Notably, a bloody white paper bag in the
kitchen trash can. But because this is 1993, DNA testing isn't very widespread or readily available, and there's
nothing I can find showing that these things go to a lab for testing back then. They do dust the apartment for
prints, and they find a number of latent smudges, but there are no matches to anyone in the system. And it's not even
clear if these prints belong to an attacker, they could have just belonged to someone that Carmen had over. We
don't even know if they're relative. >> We have no idea when the prince got there.
>> So, with everything they have at that point, evidence of a late night meal, noises of laughter in the hallway, and
no forced entry, investigators feel pretty certain that Carmen's attacker was someone she must have known well,
someone she trusted. So, investigators start making a list of Carmen's boyfriends, current and former. And it's
not a short list. Carmen's sister, Pam Francis, who we spoke to for this episode, said that in her eyes, these
relationships were just Carmen's way of seeking acceptance. She had this innate desire to be loved by everyone, which
Pam says was likely a result of her upbringing. You see, Carmen's family situation was a bit complicated. When
she was three, her biological parents, Gail and James, sent her to live with her aunt, Gertie Shot. Gail and James,
like weren't together at the time. Carmen was their first child and they just knew that they weren't going to be
able to give her the upbringing that they wanted. So Carmen joined the shot family as the youngest of eight
children. And listen, by all accounts, they raised her as their own. Carmen considered all of the shot kids her
siblings. She called Gertie and her husband Bob mom and dad. >> And did she still see her biological
parents at all at that time? >> Yeah. So the shots actually even like you can tell how much they loved her.
They moved from Illinois to Indiana when they took Carmen in so that she could still be close to her dad, James. But
according to Pam, who was like the next youngest girl in the shot family, James lived a very different lifestyle. So the
shots are very like by the book. They're loving, they're rule following this Catholic family. James' life was much
less structured. I mean, he had some substance use problems. Carmen is her dad. She loved him regardless. She
idolized him even. And in Pam's eyes, straddling these two completely different environments was really
difficult for Carmen. She would try to imitate the things that she saw her dad doing to feel closer to him, smoking,
drinking, living on the edge, which was okay around him, but then not so much around the shots. And to add to all of
this, when Carmen was 14 or 15, a third household came into the mix when she reconnected with her biological mother.
And so for a teenager bouncing back and forth between these different lives, it's a lot to navigate. And Pam says
that this need to be loved by everyone like Carmen carried it with her all her life. She had a large group of friends
that were into punk rock and skate parks and sometimes recreational drugs. So she
got into those things, too. But according to Pam, these friends were obviously more aligned with like
Carmen's dad's lifestyle. And so Carmen kept them and her various boyfriends pretty removed from the shot family. So
there's a lot happening in Carmen's formative years. She never finished high school, but she did get her GED. And at
the time of her death, things were actually starting to really fall into place for her. I mean, after a stint of
living in her own car, she finally moved into a studio apartment. She had a boyfriend of about a year who she was
totally in love with. And along with working a stable job at Pizza Hut, she was following her passion by taking
classes at the Heron School of Art and Design. Pam said everything finally seemed like it was working. But early
on, at least, Pam feels like investigators see the crowd of people Carmen hung out
with and they kind of just brush her death off like, well, this is the lifestyle she chose to live sort of
thing. And so in their minds, it's just a matter of finding out which friend or ex-boyfriend is responsible,
>> which is incredibly frustrating, especially like does the family feel like they should be looking somewhere
else? Like is there another direction the family wants them to be going in? >> It seems like they don't know what to
think. I mean, even her friends don't really know which direction to point investigators in. But as they start
watching the sheriff's office pull Carmen's circle of friends in one by one for questioning, Missy and Pam both said
that everyone was suspicious of one another. Even the funeral was its own traumatizing experience because they
spent the whole time looking around like wondering who among them was a killer. >> 911 emergency.
For 40 minutes, a man held six women captive inside Elaine Bryant store in Tinley Park, Illinois. Five were
executed and the killer escaped. >> The search continues for the gunman. >> Authorities have his face, voice, and
possible DNA. But 18 years later, this case is still unsolved. >> There was no doubt in my mind that we
were going to get this guy and I was wrong. >> I'm Dileia Dera and this is Counterclock
season 8. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. To try and figure out who was with
Carmen the night she died, police needed to retrace her last movements. What they
pieced together was that on Monday night, March 22nd, Carmen spent the evening visiting her grandmother in the
hospital with her dad, James, and James' three-year-old son. Carmen drove them there in her boyfriend Rob's car because
hers was in the shop and she dropped them off back at home at around 9:30 p.m. Now, before she left, James asked
Carmen to just stay the night there with them, but she told him she needed to get
home to wash her Pizza Hut uniform for work the next day. Now, the drive back to her apartment would have taken about
30 minutes. But I think she got home quick because when they talked to her boyfriend Rob, he tells them and call
logs confirm that he spoke to Carmen from where he was in Arizona at 9:49 p.m. Eastern time on March 22nd. And
interestingly, when they spoke, she told him that she had run into an old friend
that night. >> When did that happen? And who was the friend? >> Rob says that Carmen told him she didn't
remember this friend's name. No. As for when though, I don't know because it's not like she would have had time to stop
anywhere, >> right? >> If she's talking to him at 9:49 p.m., she had to have gone straight home. Not
even enough time to stop and get fast food. Carmen sister Pam Francis told Nicole that she thought the food or like
the stuff in her apartment might have been from Subway. And she was pretty sure she remembered hearing that there
was enough food for three people, but she didn't know who picked it up or when or how many sandwiches it was. if there
were sandwiches at all. But knowing the timeline that we're working with, to me,
one of three things seems possible. Like, one, the stuff in her apartment really was old rappers or cups or
whatever. It's not from that night. >> Two, someone else brought it to her place. Or three, she had to have gone
out again after she got home, after she talked to Rob, maybe while her laundry was going. Now, she didn't have her own
washer and dryer in her unit. So, she would have needed to go to the communal laundry room in her building to get her
uniform washed. I'm guessing this would have been around 10:20 after her 32minute call with Rob. Now, the big
question is, does she do this? Does the laundry get done? >> God help me, but this is a question I
cannot seem to get answered, but it feels like it should have been an easy one to answer. Was her clean uniform in
her apartment? Did anyone go check the laundry room? From the information we have, it seems like the laundry room
kind of just gets ignored, which is wild considering that it is very possible that is where she could have crossed
paths with her killer. >> Whatever she is doing from 10:20 to 11, we don't know. But by 11, that is when
she's heard walking up the stairs in the company of someone else. Well, and another big question is, is that the
same someone who was there at 1:00, or did the guy she was with at 11 leave and someone else just sees an opportunity?
Exactly. But if these are two different people, then why isn't 11:00 guy coming forward?
>> Oh, >> no one is admitting to being with Carmen that night. And if you're 11:00 guy and
you didn't kill her, >> what's the Harmon coming forward? >> Come and talk to police. It seems more
likely that we're actually looking at someone who's like one and the same. >> And her boyfriend, just to be clear, is
for sure in Arizona, >> 100%. He had flown to Arizona with his family on March 19th to visit his aunt.
And he'd actually called Carmen a number of times from a call-in card while he was there, including that call like just
hours before she died. So, no way he was in Indiana. Pretty rock solid alibi. So,
with Rob pretty much cleared, it's on to Carmen's most recent ex-boyfriend, who we'll call Josh. According to her friend
Missy, investigators really gave Josh a hard time. Almost as hard of a time as they gave her.
>> Wait, why are they giving Missy a hard time, >> dude? I'm not kidding when I say they
looked at everyone in her circle, even like women, girls. Missy was one of the first people that they looked out. And
it was just because they found a pack of Missy's cigarettes in Carmen's car with
the word death written on it. And like I can't imagine being her. She's probably
like the same age as Carmen, right? She's like 19. She's in this detective's like interrogation room or wherever
they're talking to her. >> Like set down this pack of cigarettes that say death on it.
>> She has to explain to them that her boyfriend at the time hated the fact that she was a smoker. And so she wrote
death on her cigarette box in an effort to like try and get herself to quit. She's like, "This isn't a threat of any
kind." >> Like her own reminder of this wasn't good for her. >> It was just this weird, terrible
coincidence that she did that and then happened to leave it in Carmen's car like before this happened. But anyways,
so they're looking at Carmen's ex now, Josh. They had heard somehow that Josh was upset because of Carmen's new
boyfriend. But other than him being a recent ex, there is nothing else I can find to really make him look suspicious
at all. They say that he's got an alibi. The motive ends up really not being solid. So, they quickly pivot to another
ex. We'll call him Peter. And this is the first suspect where there actually seems to be a real red flag because the
year before her death, Carmen had called the police on Peter. Now, it wasn't for
anything violent. According to police records, Peter had taken Carmen's car and just wouldn't return it. Now, he was
stopped and arrested by the Lawrence Police Department, and Carmen got her car back. But dude was busted in more
ways than one because when Carmen went to go pick up her car, she found that Peter had left this little gift bag
inside with a card for her. Like, how sweet, right? Well, there was also a card in there addressed to a different
girl. And different girl got a set of Beasty Boys concert tickets in her card. So Carmen, like not one to be played, I
take it, takes the tickets and goes to the concert herself. >> Okay. >> But apparently that really pissed Peter
off. So much so that he was going around telling people that he was going to quote get revenge.
>> So the theory is that Peter brutally murdered Carmen over >> BC boy tickets. >> People have done awful things for way
less. But yes, this is the motive they're working with. Only thing is just like Rob, Peter has a rockolid
outofstate alibi. A representative from the Social Security office in San Francisco vouched that Peter was in her
office over 2,000 m away on the day that Carmen was murdered. And it's the same story with a handful of others, friends,
boyfriends. One by one, they're interviewed and they're cleared. And shortly after that, the case goes cold.
Pam's dad, Bob, and then Pam herself continue calling investigators at least once every year for updates, but Pam
says that it's always the same answer. The file is sitting on my desk, but we don't have anything new. So, the years
keep passing, and Carmen's case gets handed from one investigator to the next as people either retire or take other
roles. Now, over time, some of the initial persons of interest are interviewed again, but nothing really
notable happens until 2013. That's 20 years after Carmen's murder. That is when someone not employed by the
Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department's homicide or cold case unit, takes an interest in Carmen's case,
Sergeant Bill Carter. And he is, by all accounts, the last person anyone expects. Not because he isn't this
brilliant investigator, but because he has exactly zero professional cold case homicide training or any homicide
training at all for that matter. He actually started his law enforcement career as a state revenue agent.
>> You don't need to tell me. I mean, you can tell them, but I already know Bill
Carter because you're kind of >> Have you heard me talk about him before? >> Only for how many years? You're kind of
obsessed with him. >> This is true. Uh, so anyone who listened to our episode on Amy Widner back in
2018, you guys will know why I love Bill. But like just a quick refresher. So he was in the state revenue office.
Then he moved to domestic violence and then nuisance abatement, which basically is a department that investigates
community disturbances like underage drinking or animal cruelty. Love a guy who protects animals. And while in that
position, he kind of just like stumbled into a cold case. So he's the guy in Nuisance Abatement who knows like the
Facebook bath Ben. And one detective needed help getting into one of those like memorial pages of a case that he
was working on, Amy's case. >> They wanted to like monitor comments or whatever. So, Bill helps them get in and
then, you know, you get sucked in. He gets like super interested in the case. >> So, he starts reading the whole file,
digitizing it, talking to family. >> He basically starts his own investigation like in his spare time.
>> Yeah. And he told our reporter Nicole that when he first started looking into
Amy's case, there was this note in her file that literally said all that could be done was done. Well, hold his bear
because in a matter of months, he solves the case. Now, Brit, you know this probably too. Does he get cheers and
accolades for solving a cool case that no one else could? Not exactly. Not even an invitation to come join the team.
Whatever. Not why he did it. Amy's family is thrilled. Bill is happy to play his part and he goes back to
nuisance abatement. But then he gets approached by an IMPD officer who went to high school with Carmen. And this
person's basically like, "Listen, I saw the amazing work that you did on Amy's case. There is this other case that has
always haunted me. I would just be forever indebted to you if you could look into it." So, of course, Sergeant
Carter dives in head first. He digitizes Carmen's case file and starts going through it page by page. And there are
no big misses, per se. He comes to the same conclusion that they did back in 1993, that whoever killed Carmen was
likely someone that knew her. But at this point, it's 2013 and Sergeant Carter has DNA testing on his side.
>> Wait, so no one's gone back before this moment and done testing? >> Not necessarily. They by this point had
entered Carmen's DNA into like state and national databases. >> And when you say Carmen's DNA, you mean
like the DNA evidence found at Carmen's crime scene? >> No. No, I don't. >> You mean Wait, you mean the victim's
DNA? >> Yeah. And we asked Carter about this. He didn't know why that was done either,
but her DNA had been entered into databases. That's all that had been done at this point. So now in 2013, as you
can imagine, there's like a ton that can be done. So, he assists a cold case investigator in sending off evidence
from Carmen's case to be examined. And the lab comes back with good news, a great news actually. Not only were they
able to develop a partial male profile from swabs containing semen that was collected from Carmen's body, but they
also got a full profile from the blood staining on the white paper bag that I mentioned at the top.
>> And do these two profiles match? >> They both match. And that full profile is suitable to be put into COTUS, which
they do, but no dice, which and this sucks, but it actually is, you know, partly good because it
clears persons of interest who were already in the system. I guess there were some, but there were plenty more
that weren't. So that's when investigators begin the painstaking task of tracking down everyone who could have
crossed paths with Carmen to get samples from them for comparison, one by one. And by the year's end, through voluntary
and covertly obtaining samples, they are able to conclusively eliminate at least
40 men. That's including Carmen's boyfriend, Rob, her exes, Josh and Peter, even her neighbor across the
hall. >> So, there's a chance that this isn't someone that she knew after all. >> Maybe everyone's wrong. There's only one
way to know. They have to widen their search pool. Sergeant Carter makes a plea to the media for coverage, and he
starts looking way beyond the initial persons of interest list, interviewing friends of friends and distant
associates. He tries to track down the repair shop where Carmen's car was at the time of her murder, thinking, you
know, maybe if the people working there had her car keys, maybe they could have also had the key to her apartment. He
even takes the time to look into all of the police runs that happened the night of Karma's murder to see if anything
there sticks out. Like maybe her attacker went on a crime spree or ended up needing medical attention. And
Sergeant Carter actually does find a man who police interacted with that night who had stab wounds that looked very
similar to Carmen's. But neither that guy nor any of these other guys that he ends up talking to match the DNA from
Carmen's crime scene. And at this point, is Carter still doing all of this in his
spare time? Like, does he officially get put on the case at this point? >> Oh, no. According to the files, he is
technically only assisting the cold case detectives, which I mean, in my opinion,
just doesn't capture the extent of the time and effort that he's putting into this. And Carmen's friends and family
recognize that, too. With Sergeant Carter at the helm, it feels like for the first time, they might actually be
getting closer to justice. Unlike previous detectives, he's not looking into this case because he has to. He is
looking into it because he wants to. And take it from someone who has seen both play out many times, there is a big
difference. >> But wanting to solve a case isn't everything. And as hard as Carter works,
as many people as he gets DNA from and rules out, he is just not getting any closer to the answer. So, in 2014, he
works with investigators to get some additional DNA testing done to see if the lab can figure out anything more
about Carmen's attacker to help him focus his investigation. But what no one knows at the time is that this $1600 DNA
test, which the city organizes and pays for, somehow ends up spurring a departmental controversy that throws
Carmen's case into jeopardy and lands Sergeant Carter in a bucket of hot water with IMPD.
The controversy in Carmen's case all started in 2015 when the results from the DNA test come back. Carter remembers
the cold case sergeant coming by his desk and saying, "Well, you know, we got a problem. Our killer is a European
female." >> The original profile was developed from a seaman sample. How is that even
possible? >> It's not like it turns out the city sent the wrong sample to the lab. What they
likely tested was Carmen's own DNA. >> Uh, I'm sorry. How does that even happen?
>> Not totally clear. I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that
like early on they sent her profile to COS. >> That's like where my mind immediately
went. >> I know all Sergeant Carter can assume is that the people who sent off the DNA
somehow got mixed up. Whatever. Human error. People make mistakes, right? Luckily, this isn't one where we like
used up the last sample or anything. we just like go back and do it again. >> Yeah.
>> Well, when Sergeant Carter asks for another test, he gets shut down. Officials tell him that they won't pay
for the test, that they don't usually cover this particular kind of testing anyway, and that the first time they
did, it was actually a mistake. And this would typically be the point where most
investigators would give up or move on. But if it's not already clear, Bill Carter is not most investigators.
He gets this idea to crowdsource the funds for the DNA tests himself. He knew that the police department had
crowdsourced donations in the past when a police horse with skin cancer needed surgery. So he thinks, I mean, if we can
do it for a horse, surely we could do it for Carmen. Like the logic is sound, right?
>> Yeah. >> So Sergeant Carter creates this GoFundMe page and in just 7 hours he raises over
$1,200. He only needs 996 for the test. So he says that after paying for the testing
pays the bill, he'll donate the rest of the money to Crimestoppers. But he never
gets the chance to give any money to anyone because almost as quickly as Sergeant Carter raised the funds. IMPD
makes him send it all back and they remove him from Carmen's case. Why? Like what is happening right now?
He's like the only one doing any considerable work on this. >> So, according to the Indianapolis Star,
IMPD says that Sergeant Carter's removal had nothing to do with the GoFundMe and
he was removed after a review of departmental assignments and procedures. >> Interesting timing.
>> Officials go on to say that Sergeant Carter is not a member of the cold case squad and quote, "We just want to make
sure that people stay in their lanes. We have cold case investigators and we want
to let them do their job." end quote. >> Stay in their lanes. Just Just to be clear, correct me if I'm
wrong, no one was working on Carmen's case, right? Like that lane was pretty empty.
>> You are not wrong. >> So, he's literally doing the job that no one else wanted or had time for, you
know, just to get a murderer off the streets who might still be out there, no big deal. Help a family and all in his
spare time, right? Like free time. This is dude should be getting a promotion. >> Well, there's no promotion. It actually
goes the other way for him. He gets slapped with a 10-day suspension. Carter told our reporter Nicole that before
this, he had never been disciplined before. I mean, this guy was by the books, hardworking. I mean, he'd only
taken 4 hours of sick time in his entire career. And now he is getting punished for what he thought was doing the right
thing which like to be fair was the right thing. >> And this is the bull politics of
policing that I have zero patience for. Your toes and your fragile egos. What is
the right thing to do by Carmen? What is the right thing to do by her family? That's what matters. Everything else
that's in the way of the right thing is the wrong thing. I am so sick of this world playing sides and angles. There is
right and there is a wrong. And I am losing my mind watching everyone lose sight of that. Especially with my tax
dollars, >> right? >> And however upset I am, Carmen's family was infuriated tenfold. Carmen's brother
is quoted in the news saying, "The only person that's ever made any progress is Bill Carter. And if Carter's off the
case, the case is over. So coming out of this, Carmen's family actually makes an
online petition to get Sergeant Carter reinstated, which quickly gets over 500 signatures. And IMPD doesn't say whether
it's this petition or something else. But within days, they totally walk back on reports that they pulled Sergeant
Carter from the case and say that he's still working it. >> And see, this is why public pressure and
attention matters. like holding public service agencies accountable like it makes things happen.
>> But pay attention to the details people. We what do we say? Always go a layer
deeper >> because that one shiny article that says never mind nothing to see here isn't the
end all be all. Sergeant Carter is back on the case. But like back on is very much in quotation marks. IMPD still
returns all of the donations that he raised, saying that they will look into whether or not the test is really
needed. And at this point, Sergeant Carter wants to help, but I mean, he also doesn't want to lose his job, you
know? I mean, he'd already interviewed tons of people, gotten dozens of DNA samples, and without this next test,
there is not much more he can do to actually work this case. He keeps collecting samples when he can and he
gets a list of everyone living in Carmen's apartment complex when she was killed. But this is the point where the
case kind of stalls. But this is where we have to work together, build off each other's work. Carter might have felt
like he failed or that the system was against him, but it was against him in such a big way that it got my attention.
The news about him having to give the money back and no testing being done is what made me pay attention to this case
before Crime Junkie was a thing or actually it was like right at the time we decided to make this a thing as I was
working on our first episode. I don't know what undeserved confidence came over me, but I just cold emailed this
man on October 17th, 2017. And >> we were in the thick of it then, >> dude. I went back in my emails and I
found it. I wanted to die. >> I'm going to have you, Of course. I'm going to have you read it. This is like,
>> okay, this is my paper. Detective Sergeant Carter, which by the way, I don't even know if he was a officially a
detective. He's a sergeant. >> You're just going for it. I love it. My name is Ashley and I am on the board
of directors at Crimestoppers. You were very proud of that. >> Obviously, it's like it gave it's like
only you had >> I'm working on a new type of media outreach for them to draw attention to
cold and unsolved cases in Indianapolis. There are two cases high on my priority
list. Carmen Van Hus and Linda McDaniel. I know you are not a cold case detective, but your name has been
mentioned in media articles regarding both women. I wanted to see if I could buy you a coffee or beer sometime. I'd
love to tell you what I'm trying to do. And if you think you can help, great. If
not, no harm in a meeting. Would you be open to that? Girl, >> I know. God bless. That man met me for lunch.
>> There wasn't much he could do back then. Like the water was still hot. >> But talking to him about Carmen's case,
like what needed to be done, that is what planted the seed. It took years to grow, but that conversation was the
inspiration behind Season of Justice, the nonprofit that I founded. How could we be this close to progressing a case
and have funding be the only thing that's stopping us? So, when I started Season of Justice, I told our director
at the time like, "This is the case. We have to get IMPD on board to let us help
fund testing." Well, little did I know they had already started in 2018. They sent a DNA sample
to Parabon Nano Labs to get a genetic genealogy assessment and do like one of those snapshot things. Tell me the
physical traits of our per. And in 2019, one of the cold case detectives shares with Carter, who's now a lieutenant,
that as a result of the testing, Parabon is able to conclude that the DNA sample
belongs to a black man, which helps narrow down their suspect pool. So, Lieutenant Carter, who has no
genealogical background, by the way, starts trying to build out his own family tree for this based on the DNA
matches from Parabon's profile. And over the next year, he spends his time traveling all over the country to talk
to people and try and get reference samples to continue narrowing them down. But the DNA matches that he's working
with are like very distantly connected to Carmen's attacker. We're talking like fourth generation distant, he said. And
one of these trees has 2800 people on it. But he is still desperate to figure this case out. So by now where he's at,
it's 2020. And turns out Season of Justice can help after all. SOJ steps in with a grant to fund 15 hours of
genealogical research and cover the fee to upload the suspect's DNA profile to another online database. And that is how
after almost a decade of working on this case, Lieutenant Carter finally gets what he calls the magic hit. On June
2nd, 2023, Parabon reaches out to Carter, now a captain. >> At least someone's recognizing this
guy's work at this point. >> I know. And Parabon says that they may have found a close relative to their
person of interest. Apparently, a great niece, once removed from the suspect, had uploaded her DNA to 23 and me. But
that's as far as they could go with the grant. And again, he has no genealogical
training whatsoever. So he taps IMPD nuisance abatement analyst Meera Patel, who is more familiar with open- source
databases, and she starts investigating this relative and her family. And this work brings the investigation the
closest it's ever been to a name. Mera concludes that Carmen's attacker is possibly related to these two brothers
with the last name Shepherd. and Shepherd rings a bell. Remember that list Captain Carter got of the people
who lived in Carmen's apartment complex at the time of her murder. Both brothers are on it. Captain Carter
and Meera actually go out to the apartment complex to see just how close their apartment would have been to
Carmen's. It takes them like 30 seconds to get from one to the other. I mean, the apartments are connected by a common
area, which by the way includes the laundry room. So, she probably did make it there that night.
>> I think that makes the most sense because from speaking to her family and friends, the only connection that these
two brothers had to Carmen was living in the same complex. So on February 7th, 2024, Captain Carter meets with the IMPD
cold case unit to share what he and Meera have found and to suggest that they get warrants to obtain swabs and
fingerprints from Dana Shepard. >> And why just the one brother? >> Well, according to Captain Carter, they
only started with Dana simply because he was living closer. He was living in Missouri, working as a university
custodian, and his brother had moved even further south. So, they'll start there, right? IMPD's warrant is granted
by the Boone County judge in Missouri and on February 15th they serve it to Dana on the University of Missouri
campus. Police tell him that they need to eliminate him as a suspect in an assault case. And according to police
records, Dana is like visibly shaking as he reads the warrant and he tells police
that he has not done anything for a long time. And then he keeps asking if this warrant is from Missouri. And at this
point, it sounds like they went to the right brother first. 4 months later, they're sure of it. Dana's DNA matches
the DNA in Carmen's case. So on August 30th, 2024, 31 years after Carmen's death, Dana Shepard is arrested in
Missouri on charges of murder and rape with deadly force. When the charges are announced at an IMPD press conference,
Carmen's younger brother, Jimmy Van Hus, gets the chance to say a few words. >> From the bottom of my heart,
and on behalf of my dad and our entire family, I want to say thank you to Bill and Meera
and every single person that had a hand in this. There's a lot of people that put in a
lot of work for a lot of years and to every single one. We're all very, very thankful.
There's a lot of people that miss Carmen all these years. She had a lot of family, a lot of friends.
She had cousins that loved her like sisters. She had aunt and uncle that loved her like a daughter.
She wasn't able to experience her college graduation or have a wedding or any of life's events that she missed
out on. We were coming a lot closer just as she was taken from us. For my dad to have to
find his daughter after what was brutally done to her makes this day bittersweet. I wish he was here to see
it. She was taken from me when I was a freshman in high school. And I'm thankful that finally the man
that did it is where he needs to be. I do have hope that any similar case with DNA can get this same treatment
with the genealogy and the uh everything we have available today. I want all of them to get the same
attention and get maybe we can have some more outcomes like this. Thank good Dana plead not guilty at his arraignment
and as of this recording he has been extradited to an Indianapolis jail where he's awaiting his trial. that is set to
begin right around the corner, January 26, 2026. And in a huge win for Carmen's family, the prosecution recently decided
that Captain Bill Carter will be the lead detective for the prosecution in this case, rather than one of IMPD's
cold case unit guys, which the family is thrilled about because they know that at
this point, nobody knows this case as well as Captain Carter does. >> Well, and he's really the person who
cares the most, too, right? >> Yeah. I mean, their their best chance is with him. He's going to he's going to
get on the stand and like there's going to be no himhawing ums. Like he knows this case.
>> Yeah. Do you think there's anything more that's going to happen at trial? Like
any more of a connection, any more of a there's never a reason, but like any more of a reason?
>> I don't know. I'm finding more and more with these genealogy cases that get solved that there are no answers or like
no satisfying ones at least. But I don't know what the trial is going to reveal.
Carmen's family and friends that we spoke to had never even heard Dana's name before. But after Pam learned that
he lived in the same apartment complex as Carmen, she said that it made sense to her. She told our reporter Nicole
that if Carmen ran into somebody in her building, she would definitely have been
friendly with them. So her guess is that Carmen and Dana had probably seen each other around maybe a few times. and she
can imagine a scenario where on the night of the murder the two ran into each other maybe in the laundry room and
Dana who was 20 at the time about the same age asked to hang out. Pam said that it wouldn't have been surprising at
all for Carmen to agree and let him come to her apartment. >> And what about the like possible food
for three? Is there someone else in the mix here that we might not know about? Well, Nicole asked Captain Carter about
that and he said that there were two Subway cups on Carmen's table and then a bag from a pizza place, but he said it
wasn't clear to him that those items were purchased that night or even that they were used that night. Investigators
didn't find any actual food at the table and no receipts or anything were found either. So, if they were found or stuff
like that was found, nobody documented it or collected them. So, when it comes to the official record, the details of
Carmen's last night are still technically unknown. And what do we know about Dana? Like, did he have any kind
of record or history? I mean, was this guy truly like squeaky clean? I mean, not squeaky, but nothing like what you'd
expect knowing what happened to Carmen. I mean, the sample from Carmen's case before it was tied to him never matched
any other cases in Cotus. And Carter did go through and check to see if there were any unsolved cases not in Cotus
that Dana might have been connected to, but there was nothing that he found. What I know is that Dana was arrested a
few times in like the '9s and early 2000s, mostly for non-violent offenses, though in 1996 he was arrested for
battery on a woman who he'd had a child with four years earlier. He was found guilty, but walked out free with time
served. After that, he moved out of Indiana, got married, had more kids, grandchildren even, and then started
working as a custodian at the University of Missouri. >> And what does his family say?
>> Well, so he's got a big family. Dana is the youngest of 10 children. Nicole was
able to speak to his mom, Jesse, and then two of his sisters, Denise and Evette. And when they heard about Dana
being charged, they said they were completely shocked. They had never heard of Dana doing anything like that before
or being violent towards anyone. And they also said they had never heard of Carmen until Dana was arrested.
>> What about the siblings who lived in the apartment complex with him? Did they see
him that night? >> So, there were actually four shepherd children that lived there in total. They
all had separate units, though. The brother that Dana was closest to, didn't want to talk to us for this episode, but
Denise, she was one of the ones who lived there. She told Nicole that she doesn't remember seeing Dana or Carmen
that night or hearing anything out of the ordinary at all. And she said to her knowledge, Dana didn't use drugs and
said that she doesn't think that he could be capable of something like Carmen's attack. And I only mentioned
the drug thing because um the attack at the time, it was so brutal that they've kind of always assumed that whoever
killed her was on drugs. But >> I mean, they also thought Carmen knew her killer. So maybe the drug thing was
wrong, too. Dana's mom just reiterated everything that his sister said, and it seems like they believe he's innocent. I
mean, have any of them asked him about it? Like, straight up? >> They have been talking to him in jail
over the phone, but they said that they don't talk about the case. And we tried reaching out to Dana's attorney for
comment, whether they, you know, would let us talk to him or the attorney would say something, but as of this recording,
we haven't heard back from him or his attorney. After almost 33 years, Carmen's family is the closest that they
have ever been to getting closure. But Pam said that strangely with all that's happening in the media and in the
courts, she has felt farther from her sister lately. Almost like her memory has become her murder. So recently she's
been trying to reconnect with Carmen the person rather than Carmen the case. And
she does this by reading her diary entries and looking back on photos that they have together. And to make sure
that no other families have to endure the pain of waiting for answers that feel like they're never going to come,
Pam is actually working to get a bill passed in Carmen's honor that will create a formal process in Indiana for
families, not just law enforcement, to request advanced DNA testing in their loved ones cold cases.
So, what you just heard was right around where we ended our original episode. And
now I'm hopping in with two major updates. First and foremost, if you follow us on social media, you know that
we were all set to cover this trial in person when less than a week before the jury selection was slated to begin in a
move that no one saw coming, Dana Shepard decided to take a plea deal. On January 23rd of this year, 2026, our
reporter Nicole was in the courtroom when Dana plead guilty to one count of murder and was sentenced to 45 years at
the Indiana Department of Corrections. While handing down the sentence, the presiding judge actually said this case,
Carmen's case, was the worst he's seen. Now, what this plea deal means is that Dana accepted responsibility for
Carmen's murder in the eyes of the law. But per the agreement reached with the state, the second murder charge and the
charge of rape with a deadly weapon were both dropped. The plea also means that Dana doesn't have to ever get on the
stand or make his case for what exactly happened on March 23rd, 1993. Which still leaves us and more
importantly Carmen's family with a lot of unanswered questions. They told us it's sort of bittersweet. In a
statement, Carmen's sister Pam said, quote, "While this plea deal was not our first choice, we are grateful that after
33 years, the man responsible for Carmen's brutal rape and murder is finally being held accountable. For
decades, the perpetrator was able to live a normal life after taking that right away from Carmen and from our
family. Nothing can undo that loss or erase the injustice of him living freely for so long. But we are thankful that
the truth has finally come to light and that he has not escaped justice. That justice is what has been fueling Pam.
Justice for Carmen and justice for other families who are in the same position she was. Which brings me to update
number two. That bill that Pam was working on to expand access to advanced DNA testing for cold cases, Carmen's
Law, it was passed unanimously by the Indiana State Senate. And in March, it was signed into law by the governor.
That means that there will now be an established framework for private funding of advanced DNA testing in all
cases that have gone unsolved for five or more years. And it's due to the tireless efforts of Carmen's sister,
Pam, who championed this bill, not only on behalf of her sister, but also for all of the other families out there who
will no longer have to feel powerless like her and her family did for so long. We are going to link to more information
about this bill and all of the source material for this episode on our website.

On March 23, 1993, 19-year-old Carmen Van Huss was found murdered inside her apartment at the Turtle Creek Apartments on the northwest side of Indianapolis, Indiana. For 30 minutes, neighbors heard her screaming for help. No one called 911. For more than three decades, her family waited for answers while the case grew cold. Then one investigator refused to let it stay that way.

In this episode, Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat revisit the murder of Carmen Van Huss and the extraordinary investigation that finally identified her killer more than 30 years later through investigative genetic genealogy.

You’ll hear what happened inside Carmen’s apartment on March 23, 1993, the early investigation and the evidence left behind at the scene, why detectives believed Carmen knew her attacker, how decades-old DNA evidence finally transformed the case, the determination of IMPD Captain Bill Carter, who pursued the investigation for years, and the stunning resolution that brought long-awaited accountability for Carmen’s family

This episode also explores the breakthroughs made possible by modern DNA technology, how investigative genetic genealogy reshaped the investigation, the plea agreement that resolved the case after more than three decades, and the creation of Carmen’s Law, landmark Indiana legislation expanding access to advanced DNA testing in cold cases

After living free for more than 30 years, Dana Shepherd pleaded guilty in January 2026 to Carmen Van Huss’s murder and was sentenced to 45 years in the Indiana Department of Correction. While many questions about what happened that night remain unanswered, Carmen’s family finally received the justice they had been fighting for since 1993. -------- Follow Crime Junkie: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrimeJunkiePodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/CrimeJunkiePod Crime Junkie is created and hosted by Ashley Flowers.

About Ashley Flowers Ashley Flowers is the top female podcaster in the U.S. and the host of Crime Junkie, the #1 podcast among women and the #1 true crime podcast globally. As the Founder of Audiochuck, she has built a top-tier podcast production company that has garnered over 2.6 billion downloads, captivating audiences with its gripping storytelling through 10+ chart topping podcasts. Ashley and her team are dedicated to creating responsible true crime content that respects victims and their families.

Follow Ashley: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ASHLEYFLOWERS/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/ash_flowers TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ashleyflowerscrimejunkie Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ashleyflowers.af/

Check out these other great crime channels: @kallmekris Craziest Birthday NIGHTMARES...With Updates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noWG5gj7Sd8 @annieelise Taylor Parker & Netflix's 'Maternal Instinct': We Have The Unreleased Footage Netflix COULDN’T Get https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeEULkCeve0 @KendallRae Groomed Online By Roblox Predator & Lured From Her Home: The Devastating Case Of Hailey Buzbee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYzpxmnf5E0 @bellafiori The Case of Steven Clayton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25KmwaTbaFI

Brief Summary

Carmen Van Hus was murdered in 1993; Dana Shepard was arrested in 2024 after DNA evidence linked him to the crime.

Key points

Carmen's Tragic Night. On March 23, 1993, Carmen Van Hus was brutally murdered in her apartment, with neighbors ignoring her screams for help.
The Investigation Begins. After discovering Carmen's body, detectives suspect her killer may have been someone she knew.
Cold Case Revival. In 2013, 20 years after Carmen's murder, Sergeant Bill Carter takes an interest in the case.
Bill Carter's Cold Case Breakthrough. Sergeant Carter's dedication leads to a breakthrough in Carmen's cold case investigation.
DNA Testing Controversy. A mix-up in DNA testing results jeopardizes the investigation and puts Sergeant Carter in hot water.
Public Pressure Saves the Case. Carmen's family petitions for Sergeant Carter's reinstatement, leading to a reversal by IMPD.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Not a single person gets up. Not a single person goes to her door.

A neighbor reflects on the inaction during Carmen's screams.

1:48WatchJul 6, 2026

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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