The Two Faces of Todd Winkler | Full Episode | Forensic Files

ladies and gentlemen this is a case about a mastermind a manipulator a murderer you are not Samurai you do not
speak truth you only want to destroy you have no bito it's probably the strangest
episode I've seen in a courtroom in my experience I'm going to show you what this crime
scene looked like this defendant takes a pair of scissors and he goes into that room and
he attacks her this is a case about Todd Winkler and how he brutally murdered Rachel Marie
Winkler his wife mother of his three small [Music] children Rachel was loved life Rachel
loved life she was beautiful and loving she was an amazing person she was an angel Todd Winkler is a graduate of the
Air Force Academy he's a Air Force fighter pilot who's been stationed internationally he's a wealthy
pharmaceutical executive comes across as very friendly jogging around the neighborhood with his small
children as time progressed did she keep you up with what was going on with your
marriage not really I could tell they weren't happy the last thing she ever said to me
was I've realized that Tod a pathological liar Brandy I still have a hard time wrapping
my mind around what happened we got in a fight and she turn out she's coming at me with a v of
scissors and I got a hold of them and we had a struggle he wants you to believe that
there is some big massive struggle where they're flipping and they're turning once I started to get the upper
hand I just I pushed the scissors in as far as I could she's in the corner there and he
lays there on top of her while she slowly dies we're all watching the prosecution and then there is this sort
of rumbling weird noise and then Todd Winkler is erupting you are not Samurai you do not speak truth you only
want to destroy you have no bito and it mesmerizes the courtroom and it freezes everything stop stop is this an act if
it was it was a pretty good one this explosion fits in with a narrative of this is a guy with multiple
psychiat ATC episodes you believe that he is suffering from a disorder that he's not
a cold- blooded killer right do you think he meant to kill his wife in a sense he did you think he's guilty of
murder no I don't you have no bito he's not crazy Todd Winkler is a coldblooded killer and Todd Winkler has killed
before [Music] I'm Richard slesinger tonight on 48 Hours the two faces of Todd Winkler
[Music] [Music] the people who live in Cameron Park California just east of Sacramento know
how to put on a show it's a chance to Showcase their neighborhood raise money for charity
with pancake breakfast $5 and show off some adult-sized [Music] toys it's a unique Community for people
who like to fly pilot Phil Alby has lived in Cameron Park for 10 years well an outsider might be surprised when he
first comes in uh the cars and the airplanes share the same streets uh for taxing or for driving they're going to
find that people have airplanes sitting out in front of their house instead of their
cars Todd and Rachel Winkler fit right in here Todd the former fighter pilot loved to fly and the couple apparently
could afford the 860,000 house now that he was a successful pharmaceutical executive they married
just weeks after they met a romantic might think it was love at first sight I didn't like it it seemed very strange
but Rachel's Father Don Hatfield isn't that romantic one lady that had dated Tai was begging begging
Rachel not to do it told me to try to stop her one of Todd's exgirlfriends told you to stop the
marriage not let it happen please do not do this why what did she say well she she saw some things in Todd that were
somewhat egocentric so you took her advice and said to your daughter what why are you doing this so fast we
don't know this guy this doesn't seem like a good idea and what did she say Dad I know what I'm
doing I know what I want to do and and he's a family man he's a successful businessman she was set on on doing it
and Todd could be Charming well do you believe she loved him at some point yes I do in time Todd also Charmed his
father-in-law because it seemed like a fun guy and he always was courteous kind and respectful of
me Todd and Rachel soon had three children Eva the oldest Ariel and Alex the youngest with Todd
Winkler Behind Bars awaiting trial for their mother's murder to pop up from your kids they are being raised by their
grandfather that's my dessert well how hard was it for you Don Hatfield supposed to be retired to all of a
sudden like that take on the responsibility for three children really hard I mean it would be like saying how
am I going to get in shape for this Marathon the next year going to wash his hands here I'm going to do it but boy
it's going to be hard do the kids ask about their mother do they know what happened yeah put your jammies on Eva I
mean this is after a couple weeks after being with her and having her in this incredible voice say mommy don't leave
me mommy don't leave me mommy don't leave me and it really got to me I mean I have never forgotten
it it's small Comfort but Rachel's memory lives on in dozens of Don Hatfield's paintings she had such an
exquisite beauty to her he's a renowned impressionist artist and his daughter was his Muse it's what I felt about her
as my little girl one of the major joys of my life that you know when I when I painted her face I painted better you
want to go over there yeah let's go over there but in the years after marrying Todd Rachel seemed to lose that special
quality her father had captured on canvas according to her close friend Brandy Stanley the light in her eyes
seemed to be dimming if I were to ask her how are things with Todd rather than saying oh
they're great we're you know we're happy she would say things like it's okay I'll
be fine hardly a ringing endorsement of a marriage right basically she told me that she lived much worse off than
anyone that she knew was but her husband made more money than most people she knew what did you make of that I kind of
assumed maybe that they had acquired a lot of debt Rachel took a job as office manager
at the Cameron Air Park it was a struggle to work and take care of the children Todd was away all week at his
job near San Francisco and Rachel complained that he had abandoned the renovations they had started in their
home home she called it a danger zone or a biohazard because there was nothing finished and the outside looked well
groomed and clean but inside it was rugs and tile and stacks of wood Todd's charm was wearing off and
Rachel was telling Brandy all about it in emails Todd values experiences over relationships he wants a teammate more
than a soulmate Rachel's messages became more ominous in the months leading up to
her death I fell in love with the creep which serves me right but D she had decided to get a divorce and then there
was that final chilling phone call actually the last thing she ever said to me was I've realized that Tod's a
pathological liar Brandy and then she ended the phone call pretty quickly and said she'd call me
later and later never came 911 what's your emergency I'm calling to R report a fatality on the morning of February 27th
2012 police received a 911 call from Winkler's neighbor a lawyer Winkler had just called him and told him that Rachel
was dead what happened there my understanding it was a domestic uh dispute fight confrontation
okay when sheriff's deputies arrived at the scene they recorded this audio of Todd Winkler surrendering Sheriff's
Office walk towards me walk to me keep your hands up or I can see them Winkler told them where they could find Rachel's
body so where where is your wife when you enter the house you turn to the right the first bedroom on your right
and you're you sure she's dead I'm positive how can you be how how are you sure no pulse no breathing and Winkler
knew how Rachel died he waved his rights and spoke to investigators for more than
an hour without asking for a lawyer he told them he and Rachel were having an argument over custody of the children he
said he hit her in anger and was apologizing when she came at him with those scissors it was a long long long
protracted struggle uhh she's a very strong girl she an extremely strong girl she's much better to
me Todd Winkler claims he was fighting for his life there's a fellow killer be killed kind of
situation but there were problems with his story almost immediately James White is a former
Marine who who served in Desert Storm he's also a gun enthusiast and a martial artist a tough guy who gets a little
mushy when he talks about Rachel Winkler the woman he calls the love of his life
she had a beautiful smile she had a Magnetic Personality and she was just absolutely perfectly nice how often do
you think of her these days every moment of every day he still listens to her phone messages I love you take care bye
James and Rachel met in September of 2009 When Rachel started managing the Air Park so you worked here you worked at
this little airport yes sir what did you do uh whatever Rachel needed me to do uh
a couple times I repainted lines fixed the roof her marriage to Todd was already on the rocks and within months
she and James began an affair did she seem different she seemed happier Rachel confided in her close
friend Brandy Stanley that she had fallen in love but felt guilty about getting divorced she wanted to do right
by God and stay married but she didn't know if that was something she could actually do Winkler found out about the
affair and by all accounts was trying to win back his wife but Rachel seemed to know a side of him that frightened her
she says if anything ever happens to me I want you to look at Todd and I want you to look at my kids when they get
older and tell them how much I loved them wait a minute she told you if something happened to her to look at
Todd when deputies arrived they detained a man near the front porch the morning of February 27th 2012 no one had to look
very far after Todd Winkler admitted stabbing Rachel to death and then uh they'll take you to the jail okay all
thank you am I under arrest yes okay after Winkler told police the detailed story of a life ore struggle over those
scissors prosecutor Lett sudor started cutting it apart did she turn out she's coming at me with a V of scissors so
Todd Winkler says that he was having an argument with his wife and she turned right and came at him with a pair of
scissors open like this and you're smiling why it's ridiculous who comes at somebody with scissors that way it just
doesn't make any sense suder insists that Rachel did not come at him at all this wasn't a fight the only struggle
would have been her trying to defend herself as he's attacking her did she have a chance she had no chance she was
110 lb 5'3 he is over 240 over double her body waight so if this was not a case of self-defense why would Todd
Winkler decide to kill his wife that night he had known about the affair with James for well over a year she told a
friend of hers that day that she had made her final decision and she was leaving him Rachel's father believes
Winkler killed his wife because she knew his Secrets he wanted to shut her up she
had the goods on him she could probably make his life very difficult it's not clear exactly how many Secrets Rachel
knew but Winkler had a history of bizarre possibly psychiatric episodes this is a very disturbed
individual Peter heck is a reporter with the Sacramento B and a CBS News consultant it turns out Winkler's
history of strange outbursts dates back to his time in the Air Force he was stationed in the Far East with a
squadron known as the fighting Samurai Winkler seemed to develop an obsession he sees himself in the image of the
Samurai you have no B judge I'll stop Loosely translated Bushido is the samurai code of honor and while he
was still in the military Winkler apparently took great offense when he was caught shoplifting from the PX and
questioned by his commander and he erupts screaming he screams at his commanding officer so what happened to
him he lands in a psychiatric care in an Army hospital in Hawaii they ultimately
let him go on a a 50% psychiatric disability years later in the months before he killed Rachel Winkler's
Behavior was getting more erratic and more frightening to her he was once again taken to a hospital apparently
suffering from some sort of nervous breakdown after becoming enraged at his employer a large pharmaceutical company
and he claimed that he had no sleep and they were pushing him too hard but Rachel reportedly told friends it was
all an act he called her and told her that he faked it because he wanted to sue his company but it was another
scheme of winklers that according to her father had Rachel especially alarmed he
said says Winkler wanted to collect insurance money by staging a car crash he suggested to Rachel staging an
accident where a car goes off a cliff Bingo that idea was so frightening because it was so
familiar Todd Winkler had been married before and Rachel knew his previous wife Catherine was killed in a fiery car
crash off a Mountainside in Georgia and Winkler said it was an accident it was sort of like a light bulb went off in
her head and she realized wow this is a very scary man and I'm very afraid of him I'm thinking she's got to get out of
there and Don Hatfield remembered something else his daughter had recently told him Rachel found a box of Ashes
that were the ashes of his previous wife Rachel said I hope I never become ashes and um he said well just don't
ever make me mad what do you believe she thought he was capable of killing murder
deep down she knew that the last day I saw her she said I don't feel comfortable with Todd in the house
anymore and I'm not going to stay there with him when he comes home in the weekends so okay stay with me and bring
the kids and how soon after that did she die the next morning I got the call now
Todd Winkler was twice a widower was he merely unlucky what are the chances that this could just be a
fluke well someone who wins the lottery once is envied someone who wins the lottery twice is
investigated we go back to this spot all the time back in September 1999 Michael
hodnet and Woody Dew were camping in Georgia's remote chattah huchi National Forest when they were awakened in the
middle of the night we heard someone running through through our campsite yelling help help
help help there was a guy that was saying his wife is dead it was Todd Winkler and he said he had just survived
a terrible accident that his wife had driven their truck off a dirt road and plunged down a steep mountain
side he said he was ejected on the way down his voice was just heartbroken help help kind of sound
the campers immediately set out to see if Winkler's wife could still be alive Catherine was Todd's previous wife
she and her sister Christina Carlile were military brats she was easy on the eyes and had nice personality so so she
didn't have problems meeting meeting guys at the time that she met Todd uh she was actually um dating another pilot
Catherine was 23 and just like Rachel did she dated Todd just very briefly before marrying him Kathy was sort of
glowing you know I think he swept her off her feet and he was going to be stationed over in Japan and wanted to
take her with them she stood by her husband when he had that mental breakdown that landed him in the
hospital in Hawaii she really wanted him to get therapy and Todd was not interested in that so she was concerned
about that they eventually settled in Georgia where Winkler was starting his own internet business they were together
for eight years when they went camping in 1999 and Todd Winkler turned to those strangers for help I knew that if we're
going to save this girl we we got to get to the truck PNET and Dew soon learned how tough their rescue mission would be
B when we came around the corner the whole side of the mountain was on fire still they raced down the hill towards
the burning wreck 200 ft below while they say Winkler waited by the road I mean you can see the steepness of it
it's it's very steep it's so steep that when they went back there with 48 hours they used
ropes we have to use this 200t repelling rope to hold us up just to stay in place
you can see the tree over here where the truck came to a stop right here facing down on its side with the wheels kind of
in that direction Katherine Winkler never had a chance I knew that there was no saving
her I'm picturing the truck sitting on its side in flames right now that's what I see right
now Winkler told hodnet and Dew that he was thrown from the truck when it careened down the hill he searched for
his wife and then then scrambled up the embankment I just don't see how someone could be ejected with no injury it just
doesn't seem like he would not be hurt and why they wondered did it take Winkler so long to ask for help with the
vehicle being surrounded by Flames that are 18 20t tall that would said the vehicle would had it easily been on fire
for an hour Rick Johnson who was then a deputy sheriff was the first cop on the scene
there was two persons involved in the accident one was at the top of the mountain and one was at the bottom of
the mountain one was in the vehicle burned and the other was at the top of the mountain without a scratch on them
Winkler told him that Catherine had been speeding to the hospital because he needed medical help he'd had an allergic
reaction to an insect bite but Johnson wrote in his report he never showed us any bite do you believe he was bitten by
a bug uh no sir I I don't believe he was bitten by anything like the campers Johnson felt Winkler's story did not add
up was he moving okay he was moving fine Johnson followed procedure and handed off the case to more seasoned
investigators they said Winkler was emotional and seemed to buy into his story and they later noted that he had a
knee injury and a large scrape and bruise on his arm so you are certain that he had no bruises no scratches
nothing on his body when you first saw him that night yes sir certain that nothing was wrong with it police had
allowed Winkler to return to his campsite to collect his belongings he went without the police and that's where
Johnson believes he got those injuries you think he did it to himself I think he self all self-inflicted Katherine's
autopsy showed she died from soot and smoke inhalation and thermal Burns her body was 100%
charred but the pathologist found no evidence of Foul Play So Katherine Winkler's death to this day is
officially considered an accident my questions I have are did she suffer was she in a lot of pain when she
passed Catherine's Sister Christina says she had sensed that something had soured in
her sister's marriage and Todd collected nearly $1.2 million in life insurance and then in
2012 when she learned Rachel was also dead Christina became convinced that Todd Winkler got away with murder
perhaps if the investigation in Georgia had been thorough that maybe Rachel would not
have died Looking Back Rick Johnson wishes he'd done more if you got that feeling that it
ain't right it ain't right do you feel guilt I feel something I guess it might be a little guilt California prosecutor
leet suder understands that I think anybody would feel a sense of wow had we put this together or known what we know
now then Rachel Winkler wouldn't be dead we could have saved a life but no he shouldn't feel guilty as I was saying
the defendant but she does want a jury to hear the details of Catherine's death as they hear the details of Rachel's at
Todd Winkler's murder trial [Music] good morning ladies and gentlemen this is a case about a mastermind a
manipulator and how he brutally murdered Rachel Marie Winkler prosecutor leet sudor had a lot
of material to work with when the Todd Winkler murder trial opened in September 2014 I'm detective haes a lot of it came
from Winkler himself who talked to detectives for more than an hour after killing his wife once I you know started
to get the upper hand I pushed the scissors in as far as I could some of sud's best material has
nothing to do with Rachel's death Winkler has said that was self-defense ladies and gentlemen keep an open mind
but the judge allowed Suter to tell the jury the suspicious circumstances surrounding the death of Winkler's pre
wife there is an accident the only witness was this defendant so defense attorney David Wier had his hands full
what are the chances that one man would have two wives die is this guy just really unlucky or is there something
more to it well I think that's just life your explanation basically boils down to
stuff happens it does Life Goes On Life happens Katherine Winkler's death and Georgia is one of the first things suor
talks about to the jury she's found burned to death down a steep embankment where the car went and the defendant is
very fine with just a few minor scratches on him and that's when things got a little
hairy you are not Samurai you do not speak truth you only want to destroy you have no bito you have no B Jud what
happened that first day when your client had his Outburst I'm not sure I'll tell you one thing that was not
planned I was looking at him in the eyes through the whole thing I to me it was incredibly fake stop stop sud has
already said she believes faking illness is part of Winkler's Mo and she says he hasn't just faked
mental illness to get special treatment at work he's also claimed over the years that he
had cancer and not just once he shaved his head and he even like I think shaved his eyebrows did he have cancer he did
not and he did it again he did a different type of faked a different type of cancer at a different job look at all
the different lies first so she says it's not so hard to believe that Winkler is lying about defending himself against
his 110b wife that morning in February 2012 what do you believe happened in that bedroom early that morning he took
a pair of scissors and he went in there while she was asleep sudor says Winkler stabbed Rachel
and left her for dead but Rachel wasn't dead I got up and got out of the room and ran to my
[Music] car by Winkler's own account he came back this time wearing a motorcycle
jacket for protection I tripped and fell forward when I rushed into the room she
kicked me in the in the face and then we got into another subsequent struggle he comes back and now he makes
his decision that he is going to kill her he takes those scissors and this ex fighter pilot jams them into her neck
and he sits there and lays there on top of her while she slowly dies after he killed Rachel suitors said
Winkler spent more than 6 hours cleaning up and feeding the kids who were in the
house the whole time after that sudor says the evidence shows he inflicted these wounds on
himself he were truly injured before then there would have been blood he was touching baby bottles he was touching a
Froot Loop type of cereal for the children he was touching their bowls there is no blood anywhere in the
kitchen area on any of those items but if Todd Winkler is a criminal mastermind as suor has argued Winkler's
attorney David weiner says he sure didn't act like one sits down right away with Law Enforcement Officers you got
the scissors away from her what were you doing with those at the time striking her I mean he's saying
things that do not help him he is just he bearing bearing it all at trial Winkler took the stand
the judge wouldn't allow cameras to record any testimony but Winkler made a damaging
admission that he wanted Rachel to die I believe that he helped the prosecution to have a complete record of
this trial Winkler's biggest problem was himself his admission that he didn't call anyone for 6 hours I shut the door
to Rachel's room and just tried to make the house not look like buy seene and most chilling his own account
of what Rachel said just before he killed her she was saying we'll resolve this we'll resolve
this she was uh B begging for uh her life Rachel was begging for her life why didn't that make him stop she's
a Ed him two times now with a with a deadly weapon why would he trust her at that point if it was a a
rattlesnake right there uh in your face and you had a hold of it and you're able to cut its head
off and that rattlesnake could talk to you said we can work this out it'll be okay just let me
go so why did Todd Winkler feel the need to so ferociously defend himself against
his tiny wife this man has a theory in fact he has two neurotic disorders one is called the dissociative disorder one
is called conversion disorder Dr Frank lossi an expert witness for the defense has practiced Psychiatry since
1947 in a nutshell he says a dissociative disorder produces a disconnect with reality a conversion disorder can
produce other odd symptoms conversion disorder is where a mental state is converted into a physical
disability Dr lossi says Todd had both disorders that day his right hand was paralyzed by the conversion disorder and
so Winkler felt vulnerable and weak he thought it's just either she's going to kill me or I'm going to kill her do you
believe that he was in reality vulnerable and weak yes I do this is nothing but smoking mirrors trying to
trick you of course Suter believes Dr loss's theory is vulnerable and weak do you believe that he um was partially
paralyzed in the midst of this fight absolutely not sud says Todd Winkler is just putting on another act the evidence
proves he's lying and she's about to tell the jurors exactly how she believes he ended up with two dead wives
[Music] [Music] he said he wanted her to die his own statement I want her to die after 12 days of testimony it is
time for closing arguments prosecutor leet sud tells the jury Rachel Winkler's injur iies tell the story look at the
injuries on her neck the images are so graphic we won't show them look at how many times he has control of those
scissors and he is stabbing repeatedly there there there there there this is not
self-defense look at the difference between her hands and his hands but defense attorney David Wier
says Rachel was the aggressor and all of a sudden he's got she's coming at him with a pair of scissors there's a
struggle and he describes it as a a struggle that takes some time that she was one one tough customer he seems to
know it's a tough sell this is not a murder case ladies and gentlemen this is a self-defense case or at most it's a
voluntary manslaughter case or at most a voluntary manslaughter case at most to me that didn't sound like a guy who was
convinced that his client is absolutely innocent well then maybe I shouldn't have said that why why did you say that
uh because uh there's there's there's some room to argue there Wier in his closing argument made no mention of
Winkler's Outburst he also never mentioned the psychiatric disorders but sud did
to somehow all of a sudden in the middle of the struggle he now can't Ed his right arm and his right hand when he was
killing her he now has prow she reminded the jury that Rachel was not the first of Winkler's wives to die
and that Winkler collected more than $1 million in life insurance after his previous wife Catherine died in that
awful crash why did he kill Kathy he killed Kathy for financial gain and she says Winkler killed Rachel for the same
reason money he wasn't fine with having to pay her money to leave him and have to pay child support and spousal support
she argued there are too many similarities between the two deaths tenant has now had two dead wives and in
both cases he's the only witness and his stories change and he comes up with injuries after the fact but Katherine
Winkler's death was ruled an accident and that ruling stands to this day if you're going to find that Todd Winkler
killed Kathy Winkler you have to rely on wild blind idiotic speculation now it's up to
the jury to decide Don Hatfield knows the state presented a strong case very well but now waiting for the verdict he
still can't help but worry what if it took the jury less than 5 hours to reach a verdict this is it superior court of
the State of California in and for the County of Eldorado we the jury find the defendant Todd Allen Winkler guilty of
the crime of first-degree murder as charged in count one of the indictment guilty Rachel's father cried
her boyfriend hugged his daughter but Todd Winkler did not seem to react at all as he was led away in shackles okay
I'm going to remand Mr winkl to the custody of the sheriff 6 weeks later Todd Winkler was back in court to be
sentenced and Don Hatfield got his chance to be heard the pain and anguish my family and Rachel's friends have
endured since this vile Act is unimaginable these beautiful children were orphaned in one cruel deed how will
I ever explain or even comment on the question why did daddy kill mommy Rachel's children will prevail in this
life but they will never see their mother again and then Todd Winkler spoke I will
just say your honor I feel um deep remorse for what's happened and um for Rachel's family for my family and
especially for my children judge Kenneth malikian answered Winkler matter you are
not the victim in this case Rachel Winkler is the victim in this case and then he handed down the sentence total
sentence is 26 years to life 26 years to life for murdering Rachel but Katherine Winkler's Sister
Christina is still hoping for a new investigation into Catherine's death just struggling for answers and wanting
Justice for my sister Rachel's friend Brandy got the Justice she was looking for but but
whatever comfort that provides I miss her in so many ways cannot make up for the loss she still
feels we talked a lot about bringing our kids up together we had waited 20 years for that
to happen and Don Hatfield who knows the awful pain of losing a daughter would you rather watch cartoons or animals
says he still feels Rachel's presence every day quick give me the broom he shouted through his grandchildren whom
he will continue to raise good night Ev Ariel good night I I want Eva Ariel and Alex to know that they had a mother who
loved them very much good night love you I love you too that she's with God and God is not far away and neither is their
mother [Music] [Music] he [Music]

A family man accused of killing his wife has a bizarre outburst in court. Is he crazy or calculating? Correspondent Richard Schlesinger investigates. Watch more full episodes of "48 Hours" on Pluto TV.

True crime. Real justice. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Todd Winkler is convicted of murdering his wife Rachel, revealing a history of manipulation and possible previous crimes.

Key points

The Two Faces of Todd Winkler. A courtroom drama unfolds as Todd Winkler's past and present collide in a murder case.
Rachel's Final Warning. Rachel confides in a friend about her fears regarding Todd, hinting at a dark future.
A Pattern of Suspicion. Todd Winkler's history raises eyebrows as he becomes a suspect in two tragic deaths.
Todd Winkler Found Guilty. Todd Winkler is convicted of first-degree murder for the death of Rachel Winkler.
Sentencing of Todd Winkler. Winkler is sentenced to 26 years to life for murdering Rachel.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

You are not Samurai, you do not speak truth.

Todd Winkler's outburst in court.

2:38WatchJul 1, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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