The Murder of Julia Martha Thomas | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Elena I am Ash and this is morbid [Music] I'm just a [ __ ] boy in these intros
these days just a little [ __ ] boy you're a little tiny [ __ ] boy oh boy oh brother um what's what's
going on what's going on I had a calzone with Milky Way in it for lunch dessert for lunch dessert it was delightful yeah
it was you know what it was delightful and what was also delightful is that um although we've been having some like
weird Vibes we've talked to you guys about it a little bit Yeah like the doppelganger situation the TV Falling on
My Head slow motion falling on yeah just my stumacher moment your stacher moment
my my casual brain damage it's felt a little off and we we've all felt it and we've all just kind of like been like oh
like what what is this I don't like it and so we were like all right I'm going to clean this morning I'm going to
vacuum I'm going to like make sure everything's decluttered maybe that's part of it but then Mikey was like wait
a second our gal Rachel stavis Rachel who is like this amazing out of this world Exorcist
we had her on you remember she's amazing go listen to that episode if you haven't
cuz she's delightful she heard that we were like having some weird energy and weird Vibes and we kind of talked to her
about it a little bit and she sent us a lovely little care package yeah of items
that will help us kind of like cleanse the space and like make the energy a little better so Mikey lit some incense
and just was like you know what let's get Rachel Vibes in here yeah I'm not kidding
you something happened so true the energy in this room is different and I'm usually pretty skeptical about some of
this stuff like I'll end up being like I don't know like maybe it's just likeo I'm not kidding you it feels like
a totally different room cuz I was not here this morning when you guys did that and then when I walked in I was like
wait a second you like what's different here he light as [ __ ] in here yeah like
Mikey was like it feels like it feels still yeah it does feel still whereas before it felt very racing it felt
staticky yeah like everything was like it felt like snow on a TV screen like that it was like irritating all the time
and I felt like it was like something just didn't feel right so we just need to say like Rachel stavis man mhm I'm
telling you she knows knows her [ __ ] she's so [ __ ] cool follow on Tik Tok yeah follow her on all the things yeah
but she's magical and she did something so thanks Rachel thank you Rachel [ __ ] pal thanks a lot Rachel I'm
telling M I'll tell everybody we're telling everybody [ __ ] everybody I'm telling everybody
uh So speaking of you know British accents kind of I think it's Scottish that was Scottish but uh we're going to
be talking about Scotland Yard here so that works hey so we got an old timey murder let's
[ __ ] um this is one I had heard about before and some people may have heard about it is the murder of Julia Martha
Thomas um it's a wild one though and it's one we have not covered somehow oo which is shocking I'm shocked is it like
an 1800s e Vibe it is an 1800s e Vibe oh wow so this was dubbed later in the press the Richmond murder it captivated
londoners for months and the killer Kate Webster's trial and execution eventually
uh became something of a public spectacle you said Kate yes Kate a woman a woman and in Victoria era England very
few people even believed that a woman was capable of murder I believe that but one as vicious as this one and one that
um also involved a lot of uh abuse of a corpse I will say after they definitely didn't believe a woman could do that
okay yeah so given that and the absolute viciousness of the entire thing the Richmond murder remains one of London's
most notorious murders of the late 19th century yeah I'm trying to think of I like the the title itself like the
Richmond murder like makes me feel like I know it but you're talking about like a couple details and I'm not it's not
hitting you no maybe it will know maybe halfway through I'll scream if it does so let's talk about the victim first
Julia Martha Thomas so as is the case with a lot of these like Victorian era cases we don't have a ton of information
about Julia's life you know before she became a victim of this crime the 1800s of it all exactly but Julia Martha
Thomas was born in England Circa 1823 uh according to Elliot odonnell who we will link The Source in the show
notes uh she was well known by neighbors to be distincly eccentric I like that which is fun that is fun who doesn't
want to be known as distinctly eccentric yeah I really love that in a world full
of people who are not be distinctly eccentric distinctly eccentric especially back then too to be known as
that like hell yeah that's how you know you're doing it right I feel like we need merch that says especially back
then especially back then I feel like we say that a lot we do yeah just especially back then yeah um so she so
odonnell wrote that she was possessed of a remarkably excitable temperament frequently getting vexed and put out for
no apparent cause and she is still remembered as very much a tartar to her servants a tartar that doesn't sound
good it's it's not so in England tartter actually means someone who is domineering bossy irritable you know
it's not sauce not great it's not a compliment okay so again she was known people liked her who knew her it was
just the people who worked for her that were like not a great employer okay uh she was twice widowed oh that's sad um
and since the passing of her second husband in 1873 Julia lived in a small house um adjacent to a pub in Richmond
oh hell yeah which was a middle class neighborhood in Southwest London and she had spent most of her adult life as a
school teacher actually cool despite her reputation for high expectations and a pretty quirky character again she was
super well-liked by others she was never lonely after being widowed particularly
with the pub patrons next door like people liked her and also without a husband or when she retired didn't have
a job to attend to she began kind of indulging her interest in traveling and just going different places hell yeah
yeah like she never liked to stay in one place too long she loved to see other places she went by herself like she was
just yeah she loved it and it was later said that her friends and relatives would sometimes remain for weeks and
even months in complete ignorance of her whereabouts so she just wouldn't tell anyone either she would just off she
would go that's not great doesn't help later don't do that doesn't help uh kind of plays into Kate's favor a little bit
later but and at the time she's just like I'm taking off for a little while I've have no one to be responsible to
tied down me that does sound kind of fun right imagine just disappearing and like
nobody knows where you are but like you're just on vacay yeah you're just on vac like it's okay you're on vac it's
fine and Julie's like hell yeah I like that now outside of all this and her eccentricities Julia was remembered by
most for her commitment to appearances oh honey with uh quote fondness for dress and jewelry oh honey she made the
most of her modest means and was often seen wearing gold jewelry and rings as well as fine
clothes okay sister yeah that's this was not because she was wealthy she really wasn't wealthy yeah she wasn't like you
know the the poorest of the poor she wasn't the wealthiest of the wealthy she was like solid middle class at that time
she spent her money on good quality [ __ ] she did and odonnell actually refers to
it in the book as an OB obvious anxiety to be thought Gentile well you know no I'm just
kidding well you know she again she was solidly middle class but it was very important to her that she P be perceived
as highly respectable despite her Reliance on the income of like taking Lodgers in her house that kind of thing
she went out of her way to give the impression that she had wealth she had class dress for the job you want want
not the job you have exactly she just liked I I don't have to be rich to look rich is what she was saying you don't I
don't have to spend all that money to look rich I look rich Franny and it's like good job Julia exactly so although
she was gen generally thought of positively by her neighbors like we said and her friends and people who knew her
at the pub and all that she didn't go to the pub they just knew her from like yeah Julia's reputation as a demanding
employer with high standards made it a little difficult for her to find long-term domestic workers actually
records indicate that she hired a lot of servants over the years only one maid was known to have stayed employed by her
for any real length of time damn the rest of them just gone they just couldn't hack it yeah because of this
gnarly track record in January 1879 Julia found herself yet again looking for a new made and this is when her
friend Lucy loader mentioned hey I actually just recently came in cont contact with this young Irish woman
named Kate Webster not Kate and Kate Webster had done a few days labor for Lucy her friend there and was looking
for long-term employment in the area so she was like this seems perfect she was great for what I needed her for yeah 10
on 10 recommend there you go which like oops you should not have zero out of 10 looking back this is one of those things
where you like you like vouch for somebody and then you're like [ __ ] we have all been there so Kate
Webster was born actually C Lawler huh which should give you a little idea of like huh we have an
alias yeah we don't love that what's going on there what a fun last name Lawler Lawler that' be good in the group
chat she was born Circa 1849 in kilan County Wexford Northern Ireland okay from the moment of her
arrest later in life uh the authorities found it very difficult to verify a lot about what Webster told them of her
backstory and personal history mysterious squirly she was a liar a liar who lied mysterious squirly she was a
liar liar according to Kate she grew up in a Roman Catholic farming family and claimed to have married a sea captain by
the name of Webster while still in her teens and she said the couple had four kids where are they where they are the
world may never know well it's so easy to say that you married a sea captain cuz he ain't never going to be around
he's gone he's at Sea he's a sea where's where's your husband the sea captain at Sea on a boat [ __ ] he's in
the sea he's not a land Captain okay idiot so well sure could be true maybe maybe she married a CA Captain named
captain Webster who's to say had four kids Captain George glass but odonnell and many historians suggested it was
much more likely that she assumed the name Webster to evade the police and that it was just one of her numerous
aliases that she would have during her life she didn't have many of those fun so Webster's criminal career appears to
have started while she was in her teens actually when she claims to have been married to the sea captain named webst
[ __ ] she was arrested for Larsen and served a short prison sentence in her teens oh wow upon her release she left
Ireland and traveled to Liverpool where she just continued a life of crime uh particularly robbing lodging houses
which she became really good at oh God it was actually something like if she had a LinkedIn today she would be like
I'm actually skills robbing lodging houses 1815 to present killing it like she really knew how to rob a lodging
house wow and if she had just that's terrible but you wish she had just continued in that career path that she
was going to stay in a life of crime because what she does do is pretty [ __ ] awful it sounds like it but as a
woman especially at that time Kate was far less likely to be suspected or accused of crimes like that and her
remarkable confidence and her practice ability to lie like a rug liar made it her really good at being a thief like
she was the best thief in most cases Kate would just present herself at a boarding house and she would say hi I'm
interested in a room and they'd be like absolutely let me give you a tour she would be given a tour of the building
and then as soon as the landlord turn turned their back she would steal whatever she could Fantastico just shove
it in all her pett coats and that would be it she' just leave great yeah she' she got her tour and she'd just say oh
you know what actually I don't want to take this room and then she' just leave with all the [ __ ] and then they'd have
no record of her ever being there exactly cuz she's just taking the tour diabolical in the event that she
couldn't steal anything during the tour like if the landlord was like yeah keep an ey on Staring at her like I'm not
turning my back on you this isn't a visual podcast but Elena just like looked up stared at you yeah like like
put her face down and looked up with her eyes it was very intense that's what the
land lord would do uh but if she couldn't do that she would accept the room for like a day or two and just Rob
everything in the house and she would Rob the other Lodgers [ __ ] and then just
flee the house with all the [ __ ] I need to know more about Kate's childhood yeah
Kate wish I did Kate is a lot yeah and the scheme worked well for a while but eventually Kate was arrested again for
Larsen in 1867 and ended up being sentenced to four years in prison that's a long time in prison especially in
1800s prison yeah so while she was sentenced to four years in prison it looks like she might have only served a
little more than three overcrowding yeah you know and then when she made her way
up to London in ear um early 1871 [ __ ] didn't really change because years later after she was arrested for
uh the crime she will be arrested for Kate claimed that upon arriving in London she had every intention of
leaving her criminal ways behind her and making an honest living bet as the kids
would say indeed bet indeed but she even took up the first of several jobs as a domestic worker to just get on that
straight and narrow wow she had hope but it was during this period of her life that Kate would later claim that things
started to go wrong again oh it's crazy how like the world just works against you like that yeah she's like it wasn't
me wasn't me Rob everything just went wrong according to Kate she was working for a family in nodding Hill and while
she was there she right R she met a man who convinced her and apparently romance
this man convinced her to leave her lawyers and come work for him oh and she claimed I was induced by him to go live
with him at his house and he seduced me well there and I became in the family way with my little
boy where is he well he's around don't worry about that but Kate's version of events paints her entirely as a victim
of Seduction who after becoming pregnant was just thrown out of the house by the
boy's father oh poor Kate here's the thing that could have absolutely happened yeah probably 100% there's no
reason to believe that that couldn't happen but it's just that her history as a consumate liar and criminal makes a
lot of historians wonder whether it might have been a little more complicated than that perhaps cuz Kate
do be lying she do be but whatever the case Kate did give birth to a baby boy on April 19th 1874 so she was telling
the truth about that okay that's good and she ended up finding lodging in Kingston where she was was once again
passing herself off as that wife of that sea captain I don't know if he exists our elusive sea captain and she was
getting by on whatever food and small amounts of money were offered to her by neighbors all right yeah so at the same
time Kate was known to have been repeatedly visited by a man with the last name of strong o he's strong and he
was among other things rumored to have been the boy's father I thought you were going to say strong he was rumored to be
strong he was also thought to be possibly Kate's one-time partner in crime oh so
later in her statement to the police she claimed her return to crime was just purely out of NE necessity like she
didn't want to she alleged quote I became very impoverished forsaken by him and committed crimes for the purpose of
supporting myself and my child which is sad if that's the case absolutely and you can kind of see like yeah I could
see how that would be the case it wasn't but I don't know oh okay maybe I'm sure
it was part of the case yeah but you think she also she was also just a criminal yeah sometimes criminals come
criminal they are so by this time the authorities had definitely become aware of what they termed Kate's first
long-term Swindle oh um but unfortunately they also found out about her all of her aliases which were among
others web Webster Gibbs Gibbons and Lawler damn she's got a few she all of them and the details of this long con I
we could not find Dave searched high and low we can't find the details cuz obviously she wasn't running around
telling everybody and it was wicked long ago it was wicked I thought you were going to say and it was a wicked long
Kong I mean it was a long Kong it was wicked long ago say it wasn't Wicked it's true so but also so the criminal
activity did result in whatever she was doing to prepare for this long con or starting this long con yeah it did
result in a third arrest on 36 count of robbery so a few so a wicked long contest yeah and in May 1875 she was
sentenced to 18 months in prison wow for that Wicked long con that's not a wicked
long sentence exactly now Kate was released after serving her full sentence of 18 months but unfortunately it was a
short-lived freedom for her cuz after just a few months she was again arrested for robbery and sentenced to 12 months
in prison this time goody uh this time when she was released she went to live with her son's father who she was then
referring to as Mr Mitchell so everyone's SC aliases all righty um this was a man who lived in Teddington so I
don't know who Mr strong was but he wasn't the baby's dad or not how now this guy is so I don't know Okie do but
in the year that followed Kate managed to keep her criminal activities at least to a minimum Kate um but this was in
part because she started a romantic relationship with another local man oh and it was through this new relationship
that this is when Kate met Lucy loader who at the time employed the mother of Kate's then boyfriend the local man okay
so many key players exactly now when Julia complained that she was unable to find and keep good living help Lucy said
Kate great was Lucy loader who said Kate Webster and she said she had actually come to her attention Lucy's attention
through her own m Mrs Cree okay it was all very Colonel Mustard Miss Scarlet Professor Plum up in here yeah but she's
getting people to give her like a good yeah a good uh reference yeah exactly apparently she does good work so there's
that but Kate started her employment with Julia as a uh quote unquote General domestic worker in late January
1879 until the day she died Kate said that she had taken the job with Julia as a genuine attempt to make an honest
living she said she had no other no other motivations yeah but you know she do be lying like we said she she do be
lying Kate one thing about Kate is uh she stays lying she does stay lying forever and always she is pathological
at this point but odonnell claims that from the very first Kate seems to have inspired Mrs Thomas with
fear now although he doesn't offer any examples of this odonnell does heavily imply that Kate's um appear was a little
brutish came off real brutish I mean she's she's lived a thousand lives she has she very much has and the way they
describe it in the book is her wild Celtic blood and the memory of her free life in Wexford made her no doubt very
restless and bitterly resentful I mean you know us Celtic Women you know the wild Celtic blood um also didn't they
say that Julia like was pretty easily frightened or like didn't they say she was like easily
she was she was easily excitable so she was very like which I think they mean more so cuz it was more like a a
compliment when they say that like I think it was more like you could make her excited very EAS like you could you
could amp her up about stuff I thought it I thought it was more like a like oh she was she's easily excitable like
she's easily like you know sent off the edge which I think that could also be true because she was so tough with her
employees yeah um but all descriptions of Kate like physical descriptions they were given after her arrest so like
they're obviously biased by a pretty [ __ ] terrible crime that she committed but Julia's doctor described
Kate as quote an uncommonly tall powerful and ill-favored woman looking as if she belonged to the [ __ ] class oh
that's and I was like well damn I mean Kate's a piece of [ __ ] so it's like whatever but like damn yeah that that's
got to hurt it's pretty rough I wouldn't want to read that about myself but it is
speculated that Julia had taken on Kate with the hope of helping to reform her like she had heard that she had had some
troubles well she's a teacher too so she is she's a school teacher and apparently
Julia had done that for others in the past she had taken on some people that she that were having like a little bit
of a dark past not crazy dark but like some troubles not Kate dark not Kate dark but some troubles and she thought
you know what I'll give them something to do I'll give them a little money and hopefully it'll set them on the straight
and narrow so Julia was just like a good lady she sounds like it and in fact during the first week or so of the
arrangement Kate did her best to impress Julia and Julia did the same they were both being very kind to each other and
actually Julia in that first week lowered her unreasonable expectations a little bit and kind of let things slide
just to kind of ease Kate into the work but unfortunately it didn't take long for Kate's true character to reveal
itself and she soon became very lazy very disrespectful very aggressive and defiant she was gave you a chance yeah
and she's changing her ways of doing things for you so Kate later told investigators at first I thought her a
nice old lady and I hoped that I might be comfortable and happy with her but I found her very trying and she used to do
many things to annoy me during my work uh it's like is she annoying you actively like trying to or you just
easily annoy you're La yeah but according to Kate Julia would often check her work after she'd finished
clean cleaning and would point out spots that had not been cleaned correctly well
[ __ ] it's my house and that's your job that is the job man I don't know but Kate said this sort of conduct towards
me by Mrs Thomas made me feel an ill feeling towards her I which you know which also I'm like why don't we speak
like this anymore like what and this now would be like that [ __ ] made me really
[ __ ] angry but like back then it's like this made me have an ill feeling towards her it just feels so much more
like but Kate had also begun spending much of her time at a nearby pub because remember she lives right adjacent to the
P um it's called the hole in the wall which Julia strongly disapproved of I'm sure she did especially when it's
affecting Kate's work seemingly cuz Kate would come back like drunk and also spend a lot of her time there she would
show up late she wouldn't show up to things at all so [ __ ] that so Kate had made several attempts to straighten out
her life in the past at least like half-hearted attempts so there's no reason to doubt that she at least had
like partially intended to maybe live do an honest day's work here perhaps but I
don't think that was ever the full intention here um but it's it's definitely worth considering the fact
that Kate definitely saw in Julia Thomas that although she wasn't a wealthy woman
her commitment to the appearance of wealth and Status would have been a tempting thing for Kate and she has the
jewelry she has things worth stealing and remember Kate's a lifelong skilled Thief that's what she is so but if she
had been planning to steal anything from Julia it turned out that she wasn't given much of a chance to do so in the
beginning so at just one month after hiring Kate and bringing her into her home Julia actually gave her a notice of
dismissal so she didn't get a lot of time to steal anything because she was all over and it was really only a month
and then Julia was like you kind of suck at this so got to go got to go now whether or not Julia had actually
truly feared Kate which was what everybody believes um that's just like speculation it kind makes sense how
quick she let her go yeah but there is reason to believe that she did did have some fear of her after she gave her a
dismissal because who knows how Kate reacted to the dismissal and she could already see that she was very aggressive
and very defiant um rather than have Kate leave immediately upon giving notice which you could have done Julia
actually allowed her to stay for a few more days so she can make arrangements for future accommodations which that was
pretty big at Julia according to several members of Julia's church after she gave
Kate the notice of dismissal she asked several people in the congregation whether they would be willing to stay
with her at her home because she was scared oh and odonnell writes that um the way she put it she was scared of the
dark morose Savage eyed Kate [ __ ] yeah um and she was was scared that she would
exact some kind of Revenge like she so for her to think that she must said some [ __ ] yeah she said some [ __ ] now
eventually a young woman and her daughter actually agreed to stay with her and that kind of eased her anxiety a
little bit oh that's good and during this period it seems that Kate didn't act out in this while they were there at
least not so much that Julia feared her anymore and the presence of these other people in the house kind of like
emboldened Julia to continue to criticize Kate so that didn't help um like you already dismissed her but then
she also had a little bit of of a reason to do it because she had given Kate until February 28th to be out of the
house which was when the other Lodgers were planning to leave as well they were only staying as long as she was there um
so that would have been fine like there's other people in the house you're going to leave they're going to leave on
the same day everything will be fine yeah but when the deadline started approaching Kate had not found housing
she had not found other work and so she appealed to Julia can I stay a few days longer oh this would have left Kate and
Julia in the house alone together for a number of days she didn't want to appear
cruel though or uncharitable so Julia said sure So that Sunday February 28th Kate
had this is when she was supposed to be out of the house yeah Kate had gone out out to town in the morning but agreed to
be back in the afternoon so that Julia could go to church okay cuz she was obviously using something that Julia
needed to go to church yeah um in the previous weeks before this Kate had used this free time to visit her son who she
had actually left in the care of Mrs crease wonder where the kid was yeah Lucy loers made Mrs Cree that's who she
left her with but on this particular day instead of going to visit her son she went to the hole in the wall and she
ended up returning home late she was there drinking a lot according to Kate when she got home late and was clearly
drunk Julia quote became very agitated and left the house to go to church in that
state members of her church congregation did later confirm that Julia appeared very angry that day I mean and had
mentioned that she was late to the service because of Kate now Kate told several different versions of what
happened next that afternoon so it's difficult to know exactly which one is accurate but we can figure out ex pretty
much how it went down uh the evidence and testimony support this version of events okay when the service ended Julia
returned home in much the same agitated State than when she left and she went upstairs like just get out of my house
she's like get the [ __ ] out I'm done with you like please leave you're annoying when you want someone to leave
your house you just want them to leave and especially when it's someone that you have to be scared of and like
tiptoeing around right so she went upstairs Kate followed her upstairs and the two women began arguing and at this
point she Julia demanded you have to leave the [ __ ] house you have to get out yeah like I'm not living like this
anymore so Julia is just like get out of my house now Julia at this time I think
is in her early 50s oh okay just so you're aware of like you know obviously we're in the 1800s early 50s looks a
little different in the 1800s does now right so she was like you need to Julia was like you need to get
the hell out of the house I'm done with this like I've had you overstayed your welcome and she's so basically what what
Kate saw it as is you're ascending your offer for me to stay longer like how dare you and it's like well you're an
ass well it's like she gave that to you kind of out of like she kind of felt like obligation to do it yeah um and in
response Kate became very angry to this and became physically aggressive oh my God and pushed Julia and ended up
pushing her down the stairs oh [ __ ] and Kate told investigators she had a heavy
fall I felt that she was seriously injured and I became agitated at what had occurred lost all control of myself
and to prevent her screaming and getting me in trouble I caught her by the throat and in the
struggle she was choked and I threw her on the floor I love how she says she was
choked it's like no what you meant to say was I choked her it's like you are removing yourself from that like the
active participation role and like she was choked by what [ __ ] and it's like this lady fell down that you threw her
down the stairs she got hurt and then you were like oh I better kill her what the [ __ ] so I don't get in trouble what
do you mean you better kill her like why don't you just leave yeah what are you doing skip town what are you doing
killing her and like I threw her on the floor like Jesus that's horrible and remember Kate's a big lady yeah right
and Julia is not so she's using her like brute strength to throw her on the floor
and to choke her manually and she's much older like she's not yeah exactly she not able to really put up a fair fight
now later when she was later questioned Julia's landlord Mrs IES reported hearing quote a noise like the fall of a
heavy chair around the time the murder was believed to have been aded but otherwise no one heard anything else oh
wow now shocked by what she had just done because holy [ __ ] Kate moved quickly because she was like I have to
dispose of the body and clean up this mess because she had not only choked her out but she had thrown her down the
stairs and there was blood like she had hurt herself oh [ __ ] and she said I became entirely lost and without any
control over myself and looking on what had happened in the fear of being discovered I determined to do away with
the body as best as I could that's not out of control no that's not out of control that's perfectly in control yeah
you made very rational decisions for what you thought you were doing so she it gets worse she dragged Julia's body
into the kitchen and using a razor and a kitchen knife she quote stripped it cut
it up and threw it into a copper pot oh yep okay she had already started boiling water that day for the
washing and so she just threw all the the pieces into the boiling water but uh I don't know if anybody's
following but that's boiling flesh that's going to smell really bad mhm unable unable to tolerate the smell of
the boiling body parts Kate then just left the house and went back to the hole in the wall Pub where she spent several
hours drinking chatting with people hanging out hanging out while Julia's uh dismembered body is back at the house
and is boiling in a pot also like how big is this pot yeah well she didn't put all of her she put most of her in there
you'll find out what happens to the rest of her um so she went to the holand wall
drank you know had fun went back that night to clean up the rest of the blood because my goodness was that place
covered in blood um how is she not covered in blood oh well that's the other thing she started wearing um
Julia's clothing I was K she would have had to have changed she started wearing her clothing
and Mrs IES the landlordy and landlordy the landlordy you're going to say the landl
lordian I that's a better like title the land lordy hello I'm the land lordy it's
like when people say lordy lordy lordy land lordy lordy the landlordy lordy but Mrs IES the land lady and other
neighbors around did corroborate this whole thing because they said the neighborhood began to [ __ ] re that's
the thing it's not like just the house is going to smell this is a this is some old timey [ __ ] this is in the 1800s we
don't really have like good air quality anyways and this is a middle class neighborhood where everything is really
close together too and no and they don't have these like you know weather tested
window panes and [ __ ] that's going to like keep anything in it's like everything's just seeping out into
everywhere and so the whole neighborhood smelling Julia boiling in a pot now during the coroner inquest several weeks
later there were also claims made that Kate had quote fed the fat dripping to local children to eat and called it pigs
lard is that for real it's in the inquest no yes no yeah Kate's [ __ ] Kate's [ __ ] Kate's [ __ ] e now
when she returned to the house a few hours later Kate put the remaining body parts in a box but Julia's head and one
of her feet wouldn't fit in the box so she buried the head in a nearby empty lot oh and then threw the foot into a
garbage pile fantastic yeah a few days later after weighing the box down with some Stones she threw Julia's remains
into the temps oh um then returned to the house and was pretty confident like I think I just committed the Perfect
Crime I don't know about that sister this she was so confident she walked back to that house and was like well I'm
just going to live here for a while I'm just going to use her [ __ ] nobody's going to ask where Julia is everyone she
doesn't like you no but as previously stated Julia was a widow and had no children so her immediate absence
wouldn't have been like so noticed but also remember our girl Julia like to take off and not tell anyone on travel
part yeah she loved last minute travel she wouldn't tell her closest contact sometimes y so neighbors and friends had
become kind of accustomed to her just disappearing for periods of time really without warning damn so it really worked
in Kate's favor it gave her ample time to clean that crime scene without feeling even the slightest impetus to
flee she was like you know what no I work here as far as anybody's concerned me being in this house is totally fine
and if anyone asks I just say Julia's on vacation again and I'm keeping the house
even where PE like Julia had told people she was afraid of Kate yeah she could just be like oh well I you know like we
came to agreement we worked it out oh [ __ ] after disposing of Julia's remains in the temps Kate returned to the house
and started cleaning just to give the general appear appearance of normaly she didn't want to arouse any suspicions
after all and by dumping the remains in the river Kate believed she had gotten rid of any evidence that could prove a
murder had even occurred she was like those are never going to come back up the river will will eat them yeah that's
how they will never be seen again totally except one day later on March 5th a coal Porter traveling along the
road adjacent to the river just saw a box and it had resurfaced about five miles away from where she had dumped
this box that's the other thing girlfriend like I'm not saying do better cuz don't don't but like you threw it in
a box sometimes boxes float yeah well she waited it down oh she did she did think it was going to be weighted down
but like still [ __ ] happen it's a river yeah rivers flow they do things happen
they're known to yeah gently down the stream in fact well this guy saw this box and this was Julia's box this wasn't
some cardboard box that you just find this was Julia's like it was a fancier box almost like a trunk yeah like some
kind of nice box essentially so this guy saw this and he thought it might contain
something valuable cuz it was a nice looking box oh my God so he fished it out of the river and opened it to find
several body parts wrapped in brown paper not what he was looking for so he was like wow this isn't what I wanted so
he reported the discovery to the police and an investigation was Mount mounted to just figure out who this was yeah uh
according to the doctor who conducted the examination of the remains quote the mization of the corpse had uh mization
why do I keep adding isation onto things lately I not the word no it's not but you know what I know that you know that
we all know that do I know that cuz it didn't even hit me my brain knows that no I do know that too but it's
believable muiz what was the last thing I said oh I forgot there was another thing where I had isation of you did you
absolutely did what's going on I don't remember maybe I need a speech path you're in a place of Z that that you
know I'm I'm listening listening with my ears Speech Pathology here I come no sometimes when you're reading fast and
it's hard to yeah and sometimes you just want to make it fancy like mization sometimes you have a soul and you just
go into a completely different accent so don't worry about it don't worry about it perhaps we can go to the speech
pathologist together there you go I like it per chance a two for one yeah let's see if they got any
deal BOGO are you guys getting any BOGO sales they're like this is a real establishment please leave pleas ma'am
this is a Wendy we're like oh [ __ ] I'll take a spicy chicken nugget you got to fall for fall oh [ __ ]
I'll take a spicy chicken nugget is asan sucking oh man that's good that's good [ __ ] that's good [ __ ] so what the doctor
did say was not mutilation because he was a doctor and he was smart so he said the
mutilation that is the word of the corpse had certainly been done in an unskilled
manner you could say that yeah leading investigators to theorize that the cl the crime had been committed by someone
who had no experience in killing or dismemberment damn to go that far though and have never killed before is wild
like that's your first foray that's a lot that's something now other than the human remains inside there was really
nothing unique about the Box it was it was a nice box but that's really it and there was really no clues to where it
came from just popped out of the river so that left Scotland Yard investigators with very little to work with because of
this the Press began referring to the case initially as the Barn's mystery which that was the area where the box
was discovered and that's why they named it that okay a few days later the mystery deepened though when a severed
foot was found quote buried in a dung Heap in in twickingham oh that's so awful and I looked it up
Twickenham because I was like is it t i want to be that person is it tation Tanis maybe town uh but the doctor
examined the foot and concluded it was the missing limb from the body parts found in the temps oh wow still missing
a head though oh on March 16th the coroner's inquest was carried out to determine the cause of death but with
little information and no clues it was kind of impossible to come out with any final conclusions
in his testimony the examining doctor Dr Adams gave the dimensions of the dismembered body parts and I'm not sure
if he was okay to be quite honest because he incorrectly identified the victim as a woman of between 18 and 30
huh and she may have born children incorrect incorrect on both fronts all incorrect like are you okay sir I think
he probably just thought there was a strong chance that you know he's like she's a woman she's definitely a woman
probably had kids the 1800s she probably did most people that die are 18 to 30 when you 50-50 shot and you got wrong
all friends uh but after being assured by Scotland Yard detectives that without any additional information it was
unlikely the victim would be identified the inquest was unfortunately closed in late March cuz they were like we don't
really know how we're going to do anything with this cuz remember it's the 1800s they're like oops I guess that's
itop like that sucks but I guess we have nothing else so as the Barnes mystery unfolded several miles away Kate Webster
just kept living in Julia's house like I said wearing her clothes going about her
usual business and continuing to give the impression that everything was fine that's so [ __ ] that she just wearing
her clothes yeah that part I hate a lot yeah now during this period she claimed she got the idea to sell off Julia's
furniture and other valuables as a means of funding her Escape see that's that's
what makes me think yeah yeah she says it was suggested in my mind to sell all there was in the house and go away the
way this [ __ ] talks like she's not even there she's not even part of this whole
she was choked it was suggested in my mind when I something rude to somebody I'm be like oh my God I'm sorry my mind
just suggested like that was just suggested in my mind I apologize I have to take the suggestions not on me and
they have to come out my mouth but like I don't necessarily create them do you think she's talking like that because
she was trying to sound like perhaps insane or do you think she's just an [ __ ] I think she's just an [ __ ] to
be quite honest I'm also in a big place of perhaps today I don't know if you've noticed perhaps she's just an
[ __ ] um but to do all this cuz now she's got to sell all the furniture Kate contacted an associate she had committed
robbery with in the past hey old habit die hard you know and they made the two made arrangements with a local salesman
named John church and John Church was going to buy Julia's furniture and other belongings for sale great the thing was
John church was told that Kate was Julia and that she was selling her stuff because she was moving that's spooky
yeah great podcast that that is that is a great podcast now at the same time she
continued ordering items to be delivered to the house on Julia's tab to to try to
keep it going much to sell keep it going that she's alive like the whole thing now on March 18th Church arrived at
Julia's house with his horse and cart remove the furniture while Julia's absence hadn't been entirely out of the
ordinary as far as the neighbors were concerned seeing a stranger removing her furniture from the house when she wasn't
there that'll do it that was a little weird to them now somewhat suspicious Mrs IES are landlordy there landlord uh
she confronted John Church who explained that Mrs Thomas Mrs Julius Tom Julia Thomas had sold him the items but when
he described Thomas for Mrs IES little bit different he was describing Kate Webster so realizing she had been found
out Kate just took the [ __ ] off she just fled the house and went immediately to
the train station where she caught a train to Liverpool just jumped a train [ __ ] Julia's disappearance though was
quickly reported to police Now by The Neighbors um as was the suspicion that Kate had something to do with her
absence and she just St and vanished and she was like posing as her to sell her [ __ ] uh an investigator soon connected
The Remains disc covered in the temps with The Disappearance of Julia Thomas The Big Break came when detectives
managed to track down a local boy who claimed that a woman matching Kate's description had asked him for help
carrying a box to the river she asked a little boy to help her carry that [ __ ]
to the river yep wow which they concluded were was now the remains of Julia Thomas that's [ __ ] during a
search of Julia's home investigators discovered the copper pot at the back of the house that was quote covered with
fat with the and the coroner later explained that the reasons The Remains had been
preserved with quote a parchment like appearance was because of that like rendered fat yeah they also discovered
blood stains and other evidence all over the house that strongly suggested that a
violent murder had occur so she wasn't good at cleaning she was not Scotland Yard detectives couldn't yet prove that
Julia had been murdered by Kate but there was enough evidence to arrest Kate for robbery at least and warrant was put
out for her arrest though her whereabouts at this time no one knew right now under normal circumstances 19
century detectives would have had a very difficult time tracking a criminal who'd
flood the city particularly one who had a significant Head Start cuz again it's the 1800s yeah this isn't easy they're
not they're not just like oh follow their cell phone signal like it's literally like they're gone like we
don't know where they went right but she had a significant criminal history Kate
was very known to authorities in various places around England and Ireland and so
a constable in Wexford recognized her from a previous arrest and contacted Scotland Yard okay I know that [ __ ] I
know that [ __ ] and the Wexford Constable gave detectives from London the address of Kate's relatives in the
area and on March 29th she was arrested at her uncle's home in kilan and transported right on back to London see
you now on Monday morning March 31st Kate was brought before the magistrates in Richmond where she was charged with
the murder of Julia Martha Thomas as well as Larsen for the theft and attempted sale of Thomas's property now
at the time John Church was also charged with being a conspirator in the crime and for receiving stolen property those
charges would be eventually completely dropped that's good cuz it was determined he had absolutely nothing to
do with that yeah I mean she was posing as Julia at first though Kate tried to pin the blame of the murder on John
Church yeah that's not shocking no not at all she said I first got acquainted with him when I was living two or three
doors down from him she said he used to take me out to London into various public houses I met him again some
months ago and he came to my mistress's house one night the worst for drink so he came drunk and according to Kate it
was church who suggested they murder Julia for profit from selling her [ __ ] meanwhile he's like no no no I thought
that was Julia like I don't know her and he's like I'm a furniture buyer like why would I sell I to me
would I sell it to like I'm a furniture buyer like what the [ __ ] that doesn't make any sense and she quoted church as
allegedly saying we could have her things and go off to America together and enjoy it wow she really thought me
me thinks you had a crush on John church and your M you want to create this like
fantasy of him being like we run off to America together and John Church is like
help I don't even I thought she was Julia like what the [ __ ] and Kate went on to claim that church murdered Julia
Thomas himself oh my God and threatened to kill her as well if she spoke a word of the crime to anyone and you know
didn't pretend to be Julia exactly now in statements to both the police and the Press John Church denied literally
anything like I only recently met Kate Webster and I thought she was Julia Thomas like that I don't know her we
didn't hang out I didn't want to run off to America with her I don't even know her real name like according to John
Church the woman he now knew to be Kate Webster had been introduced to him only a couple of weeks earlier by a mutual
acquaintance and she claimed to have what she had said to him was that she had lost her husband a few years earlier
so she was literally cosplaying Julia Thomas saying I'm a widow oh [ __ ] I okay
okay and she was attempting to rent rooms in her home as a mean of means of income which is literally what Julia
Thomas was doing this is psychotic but she said she had been unsuccessful at keeping people like Lodgers so she
needed to sell her furniture okay that's what she was telling him and the two had
made an arrangement and the next time he saw her was just to pay for the goods and then he said and then I attempted to
pick up the items but then I was stopped by Mrs IES right what the [ __ ] is going
on like what is happening and he said only just think of the impudence and Audacity Of The Woman to come here
dressed up her silk dresses representing herself to be a lady in the Mistress of
the house and swindle me in this way and bring all the trouble on me that translates roughly into [ __ ]
this to like what is this [ __ ] [ __ ] like what what is this that translates into
this [ __ ] this [ __ ] that's what that translates into in 2024 but within a few
days of the arrest Kate had implicated yet another suspected conspirator named Henry Porter who had introduced her to
church for the sale of the furniture according to Kate Porter had also been in on the scheme and had even used his
young son Robert to help Kate dispose of the remains in the temps and Kate said church and Porter were with me at the
time I intend to tell the whole truth as I do not see why I should be blamed for
what church has done [ __ ] and remember she's a [ __ ] liar she lies about everything she's got big old issues but
fortunately for church several people testified as to having seen him at the bar the Rising Sun on the night of the
murder and similarly in her deposition Porter's wife Henry Porter's wife gave a detailed explanation of how the family
had come to know Kate and insisted that while her husband may have introduced Kate to John church for the sale of the
furniture he had no idea that the items were stolen or that Julia had been murdered they thought she was on
vacation right after several continuances and pre-trial hearings Kate finally went to trial at the Old Bailey
we've heard of that before y on July 22nd 1879 due to the extensive coverage of the case leading up to this trial and
just The Sensational details of the case the courtroom was well attended by curious onlookers there were additional
people outside the courthouse wanting to know what was going on and at the time Kate pleaded not guilty and continued to
say that the murder had been committed by others wow and in support of their argument Kate's lawyer Warner slay
pointed out that which we a sleigh and it reminds me of a Legally Blonde burner what like it's hard like it's hard he
pointed out that the crown had no physical evidence connecting Kate to the murder and whatever evidence they did
have was entirely circumstantial uh in fact slay argued there was no real evidence supporting
the theory that Julia Thomas had died by violence except for the fact that she was dismembered and her body was boiled
like my guy are you serious it's natural causes are you real what is your definition of natural causes natural
causes she just flew apart into a Boiling Pot of water to a copper pot it's crazy and then somehow ended up in
a river who are you sir word or slay yeah he did not get a law degree from Harvard and then he said and actually
there's no conclusive evidence that say the remains in the Box belong to Julie at all and it's like except that the
coroner said they did but okay also slay added that even if a murder had occurred
and that's a big if on his part what's all that baby who could ever believe that a young woman and the mother of a
child could have committed such an heinous act so he's standing in front of this courtroom being like yeah I know I
know that we have all this evidence circumstan or whatever but she's a woman a woman she's a mother a mother she
couldn't have done this no case closed get it out of here yikes and the prosecution on the other hand strongly
rejected Kate's claims of innocence and cited her very lengthy criminal repast and reputation for just general
unpleasantness they were like actually she quite sucks yeah they were like she's kind of a dick more importantly
the crown had evidence on their side they were like regardless of what you're saying there is evidence in one witness
after another the prosecutor Harry Poland put the pieces of the complicated story back together for the jury a
13-year-old girl who was a neighbor of Julia positively identified that special box in which the remains had been found
as one she had seen many times in Thomas's house a year earlier essentially putting to rest any
questions as to whether these remains were actually Julia's and also the coroner and examining doctor testified
that although they couldn't be certain without the head the remains matched those of the woman the age and size of
Julia Thomas so there it is so they got a different doctorine to be like actually no actually now although the
prosecution's case was kind of complicated in their closing remark Poland and the prosecution team laid out
it the case pretty simply after receiving a notice of termination Kate Webster had become pissed and murdered
her employer Julia Thomas there it is she told her to leave the testimony of several witnesses indicated that Kate
had been seen disposing of the remains in the temps and that following the Murder She was known to have sold
Thomas's belongings and wear her [ __ ] clothes it was true Poland acknowledged that the evidence was largely
circumstantial but common Common Sense dictated that if Kate had gone so far as to dispose of the body and get rid of
all the evidence of the crime she was likely the one to have committed the crime one could say and Poland reminded
the jury neither Porter nor Church were traced in any connection with Mrs Thomas's house till after the murder the
accused woman was undoubtedly there as a domestic servant so so after 7 Days of trial the jury found Kate Webster guilty
of the willful murder of Julia Thomas after after the verdict was read the magistrate asked Kate whether there was
any reason that a sentence of death should not be handed down to her and Kate insisted I am not guilty my lord of
the murder I've never done it and as I was taken into custody I was in a hurry I made a statement against Church
importer I am very sorry for doing so but I was told to do so they are quite innocent of anything of the sort and I
want them to be clear of it so now she's completely retracting all of her accusations against them but
still didn't do it yeah and she was told to say that I'm like by the police by was it another mind suggestion it I was
going to say it was suggested in her mind in her final statement Kate pretty much undermined her entire defense by
clearing Church importer of anything and instead she insisted the real killer now
was the father of her unborn child she was pregn she said yes I'm pregnant and they were like wow you
didn't bring that up until right now and she they were like what's his name and she was like I will not tell you that
and they were like you don't want to give us the name you just want to go to jail instead like you you don't want to
tell us who actually killed this L and she said nope and the magistrate though he had been very patient by this point
he clearly didn't believe [ __ ] all of this so he said after so many false statements which you have made it must
not be assumed as a matter of mere course that you are telling the truth now and with the trial over the
magistrate made it clear that his only course of action was to pass sentence and with that he sentenced Kate to be
hanged bye girl now it was later determined that Kate was not pregnant yeah she was not pregnant during any of
this she was probably just like last she was trying to get out of it um and her appeal which she filed several weeks
later was immediately rejected oh good on July 28th the night before she was executed Kate recanted all her previous
statements and made a full confession to the Murder She Wrote we had an argument
which ripened into a quarrel and in the height of my anger and rage I threw her from the top of the stairs to the ground
floor in her confession she insisted that she had intended for her job with Julia Thomas to be a new start for her
and her son and that she never intended to kill or Rob the woman she said I did not murder Mrs Thomas from any
premeditation I was enraged and in a passion and I cannot now recollect why I did it something did seize me at the
time so she's saying your own anger lost my [ __ ] yeah and I murdered this woman
not only threw her down the stairs and choked the life out of her toddled down the stairs after her and choked the life
out of her yeah and threw her onto the ground and then dismembered her used a razor and a kitchen
knife to dismember her boil her remains in a pot bury her head in an empty lot throw her foot into a trash pile and
then throw the rest in the temps and then wear her [ __ ] clothing and pretend to be her and give
the local children and she's like but I didn't like plan it everybody girly I did intend to just work and it's like
that's so nice that you intended to work seems as though it didn't work out way that's really nice but like you did some
[ __ ] o to the V girl in her final statement Kate said I am perfectly resigned to my fate and am full of
confidence in a happy eternity if I had a choice I would almost sooner die than return to a life full of misery
deception and wickedness and with her confession made and her conscience um allegedly cleared Kate Webster was
executed the following morning in the yard at Wandsworth prison and buried in an unmarked grave and the crowd
assembled outside the prison cheered hey now you may be wondering what happened to Julia's head did they
find it where is it they haven't found it yet well throw the the investigation and trial investigators were continually
vexed by that point they could not find her head Kate had claimed she buried it in a vacant lot but they were never able
to find it and they said they believed it was just irretrievably lost they couldn't like where it's not where she
says it is I don't know where it is and then one day in 2010 a skull was discovered by some
workers are you ready in the garden of BBC broadcaster and famous David attenburrow what in the garden of David
Attenborough they found a skull they sent it for forensic testing that skull was identified as the 130-year-old skull
of Julia Martha Thomas what that skull was the final missing piece of the mystery and with its
Discovery it is 100% sure that Kate Webster did this cuz she pointed them to where that is they just couldn't find it
what the [ __ ] in David aten bur's [ __ ] Garden they found Julia Martha Thomas' skull that's wild he's the guy
that does all those nature videos like under the sea the voice of an Angel yes yeah that David atenor that one that one
I'll never listen to one of the 2010 they found the final why and this is why I'm telling you there is always
hope to close a [ __ ] case totally 130 years later always there's never a time where you can say we will never find out
that's why I hold out hope for Jack the Ripper [ __ ] cuz I'm telling you that's
why there's always something there's always a chance I did not see it going that way no so it closed it out too it
put a nice pin in it that it said Kate Webster did this absolutely what she said was true it happened and that John
church and the othery and uh the other guy there Porter were not were not any part of this wow yeah that I'm shook
isn't that crazy that was a wild [ __ ] case yeah it's gnarly so that is what is
called the Richmond murder the murder of Julia Martha Thomas that's so sad she sounded like a really cool lady yeah she
didn't deserve what she got Kate sounded like a [ __ ] trip Kate is a trip not an enjoyable not at all and she really
[ __ ] herself at that point very much so you could had a nice cushy job here yeah and it's so creepy that she just
kept wearing her [ __ ] like what selling her stuff and Tak like ordering things
on her tab yeah what like what the [ __ ] and then she's like I didn't plan it it's like okay but you did some terrible
[ __ ] afterwards dude like just cuz you didn't planet do your job and if you throw somebody down the stairs you got
to call someone yeah don't throw people down the stairs don't obviously yeah so that's that's that well we hope you keep
listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you kill your employer and chop her up into little
pieces and then boil her on the stove and feed the fat to local children don't do that yuck
[Music] [Music] [Music] oh okay are you all right today the [ __ ] you're insane insane woman

In early March 1879, fifty-five-year-old widow Julia Martha Thomas disappeared from her home in southwest London. Julia often travelled by herself on moment’s notice, so neighbors thought nothing of her absence; however, when several female body parts were discovered in the Thames, police uncovered a gruesome crime that not only involved theft and impersonation, but also the ghastly murder of Julia Martha Thomas.

Thomas’s maid, Kate Webster, was quickly arrested and charged with Julia’s murder. Through their investigation, detectives discovered that Thomas had recently given Webster notice of termination after only one month. Days before she was to leave Thomas’ home, Webster murdered her employer, then dismembered her body and posed as Julia in order to sell off the murdered woman’s belongings for a quick profit. Although she maintained her innocence, Kate Webster was tried, convicted, and executed for the crime, finally confessing her guilt just hours before she went to the gallows.

The ”Richmond Murder,” as it was dubbed by the press, captivated Londoners for months and Webster’s trial and execution became something of a public spectacle. In Victorian-era England, few people believed a woman capable of committing murder, much less dismemberment and rendering of a human body. Given that, and the shocking viciousness of the crime itself, the Richmond Murder remains one of London’s most notorious murders of the late nineteenth century.

Thank you to the incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!

References

Birmingham Evening Mail. 1879. "Solution of the Barnes mystery." Birmingham Evenign Mail, March 26: 3.

Blake, Matt. 2011. Attenborough skull mystery finally solved. July 6. Accessed June 23, 2024. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/attenborough-skull-mystery-finally-solved-2307530.html.

Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper. 1879. "The Barnes mystery." Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper, March 16: 5.

O'Donnell, Elliot. 2010. The Trial of Kate Webster. New York, NY: Gale, Making of Modern Law.

Portsmouth Evening News. 1879. "The Richmond murder." Portsmouth Evening News, July 9: 3.

Shaver Hughes, Sarah, and Brady Hughes. 1997. Women in World History: Readings fom 1500 to the Present. London, UK: Routledge.

The Citizen. 1879. "The Barnes Mystery." The Citizen, March 13: 3.

The Journal. 1879. "The Barnes mystery." The Journal, March 14: 3.

The Times. 1879. "TRhe murder and mutilation at Richmond." Reynold's Newspaper, April 6: 6.

—. 1879. "The murder at Richmond." The Times, April 1: 5.

—. 1879. "The supposed tragedy at Richmond." The Times, April 3: 2.

Wood, Walter. 1916. Survivors' Tales of Famous Crimes. London, UK: Cassell.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

The episode covers the murder of Julia Martha Thomas by her maid Kate Webster and the ensuing trial and investigation.

Key points

Rachel's Magical Care Package. Rachel sends a care package to help cleanse the weird energy.
Julia's Eccentric Reputation. Julia Martha Thomas is remembered for her quirky character and commitment to appearances.
Kate Webster's Criminal Past. Kate Webster's history of crime and deception unfolds as she seeks employment.
Kate's True Character Revealed. After a brief period of kindness, Kate's aggressive and disrespectful nature surfaces.
The Fatal Argument. A heated argument escalates to violence, leading to Julia's tragic fall down the stairs.
The Dismemberment. In a shocking turn, Kate dismembers Julia's body and attempts to dispose of it.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I like that, who doesn't want to be known as distinctly eccentric?

Discussion about Julia's eccentric reputation

5:29WatchJul 15, 2024

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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