The Mother I Wish I Knew | Post Mortem | Forensic Files

Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host Ann Marie Green and joining [music] me today is 48 hours correspondent
Natalie Morales. We are going to discuss the case of Deborah Atrops. Now, back in
1988, the young mother was found strangled to death in the trunk of her car in Oregon. For decades, her murder
remained unsolved and it would take 37 years to bring her killer to justice. Joining me now is Natalie.
>> Hi, Anorie. Good to be with you. Hey, Natalie. It's always good to be with you. Um, this is one of those hours that
I just kind of went back and forth. I was so convinced that they, you know, that they had the right suspect, then
they then they had the wrong suspect. I just >> I was ping ponging. >> I think it even for me as I was
reporting on this case, it was I was very conflicted. even our producers, we were conflicted. But this case was cold
for over 30 years. So really, it was all about figuring out what new evidence could be presented at trial. Uh if you
haven't listened to the 48 hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version
just below this episode in your podcast feed. Go take a listen and then come on back for the conversation. Uh Deborah or
Debbie Atrops was last seen alive on Tuesday, November 29th, 1988. Her husband, Bob Atrops, first reported
her missing to Oregon police when he said she never arrived to pick up their baby daughter, Rihanna, uh from Bob's
house. Uh so I should point out that Bob and her they are estranged, right? So they have been separated. Um, but Bob
calls the police like pretty quickly after he felt that she should have been picking up their daughter. He tells them
that Debbie was running about three hours late from a hairdressing appointment. So, to me, this was like
the first indication, like very early on, I thought, "Oh, yeah, he's the one." Because I just, it just seemed like 3
hours was too soon to be calling the police. And at least in the portion of the 911 call that we heard, it's not
like he said, "I've been everywhere. I went to her apartment. And I I called the hairdresser. Like it just something
about the 911 call seemed off. Yeah. All valid points, Amarie, you know, and actually really wasn't even 3 hours
because her appointment ended at 7:15. She was expected back at Bob Atrop's house around 7:30, 8:00. So he's calling
really less than 2 hours after that time frame. and police uh well detective Okonnell I should say who was one of the
uh initial people who was on this case he he said that felt strange to him too. It's sort of that Shakespearean you know
that quote thou doth protest too much and prosecutors believe those phone calls were almost to try to um make
police believe that uh he wasn't involved. Interesting. Now, he does say back in 1988, he tells police that he
called other people. He says he called the babysitter, called uh Debbie's boss and her parents from his home phone, but
the problem with that is that it couldn't be confirmed because there was no record of these phone calls on his
home phone and they were long distance. So, they they should have been a record someplace.
>> Yeah. And I should remind people this is 1988. This is Oregon. So calling from
one town to the other town, that could sometimes be a long-distance call. Bob lived about 30 miles from where Debbie's
parents lived. So all these phone calls should have been recorded somewhere as long-distance calls on a phone bill. So
it became a big part of the mystery was where are these calls? Now, we know that
he did place these calls because Debbie's parents did confirm and her stepfather confirmed that they received
the calls. the babysitter confirmed that she received a call. So the question is
where did he make the calls from? Investigators believe that Bob maybe had, you know, committed the murder and
was dis trying to get rid of the car and dispose of Debbie's body and that's when
he made those calls as he was out and about. >> Were they looking for I don't know
public telephone like telephone booth? >> They went around and looked at all the
public pay phones that they could find. They tried to get phone records off the payoneses. But that said, you can't go
around and trace and track every pay phone in the neighborhood. I should also say the one phone call that Bob didn't
make, which was very telling to investigators, was he didn't try to call Debbie's house. Now remember, they're
estranged. So she has an apartment in Salem, Oregon, and he never even calls the apartment and never goes to the
apartment either to try to see if she ended up deciding to go straight home. So that was very telling to
investigators. Bob Atrops explained that away as saying, "Well, I had already called Debbie's parents and they said
she had not gone home." Okay, so you know, sadly Debbie is not a missing person for very long. Less than two days
later, police discovered her uh abandoned car near a construction site and then inside they discover Debbie's
body face down in the trunk of her car. She had been strangled, but no signs of sexual assault.
So, at this point, I would think the only person to look at would be Bob. Did Did police zero in on him as a suspect
right away? You know, obviously, as we have reported all too often, the partner or the spouse or in this case, the
aranged spouse is definitely the first person they consider and they look at. Um, and they did search outside Bob's
house. They in fact u checked his driveway, which was a gravel and muddy sort of driveway. They took pictures of
that driveway. They even took a mud sample of the driveway and the lawn as well because on the top of the car, the
hood of the car, it appeared there had been some mud evidence that had been wiped away. On Debbie Atrop's body, on
her coat, they found mud on her shoes. They were muddied as well. So, they were trying to match the sample of mud
specifically and also trying to verify the tire tracks. Now, they never could verify her tire tracks on his driveway.
A lot of people, a lot of friends were visiting in the time that he reported Debbie missing. Obviously, a lot of
people very concerned about Debbie. So, police were never able to definitively say whether or not Debbie had come back
to the house uh based on tire tracks. >> So, then let's talk about their relationship. We know they're strange,
but I mean, do we know anything about the nature of the relationship at the time that she goes missing?
>> She was living, as I said, in this whole other apartment. She was also involved
in an entirely new relationship with a man named John Pearson. Friends said that Debbie was very afraid of Bob
finding out that she was already dating this guy. John Pearson was somebody she worked with and Bob apparently knew her
boss. They were good friends, so it wouldn't be, you know, too crazy for him to find out. But um Debbie's friend uh
Tammy Nelson also said back in 1988 that Bob Adops had a temper that he had actually uh had choked her according to
Debbie shortly before she moved out. And you know she had even told friends if something happens to me Bob did it. Yeah
those are definitely some famous last words. Um, but she is dating this other person, John Pearson, which is what
started me when I was watching the hour, moving away from Bob as a suspect. Um, he was interviewed by police. He told
police that he had been uh with his aranged wife and children on the night of Debbie's disappearance. Um, but he
also gave a detailed description, a really detailed description of Debbie's car and what was in the trunk. And it
just I know I can't even tell you really what's in my trunk right now. So it just
seems like an odd amount of detail to remember, you know. >> Yeah. I mean, it was a very detailed
description of what was in the trunk. Um, you know, John told police even how could a body even fit in the trunk,
which kind of strange words to say. He thought the trunk was too small. And so I asked the prosecutors, Allison Brown
and Chris Lumen, about that. Take a listen. >> John Pearson told police back then that
there was a Burger King [clears throat] bag as well as a box with cranberries and a child's car seat. Seems like a lot
of details about the car. I mean, that's not details that I don't think my husband knows what's in my car. That
seems like somebody who's very intimately involved with knowing what's in the contents of that vehicle.
>> Well, and I think >> uh we knew that Mr. Pearson had been with her. I mean, he admitted that he'd
been with her. Um, they had been dating and and was in that car frequently. Um, and then I think his his surprise that
how could the body fit in the trunk? I mean, uh, as we we mentioned, it was delicately placed in there. It's not a
it is not a large trunk and and that had to have taken some effort to sort of get
Debbie's body in the trunk. >> Does it seem like an odd commentary, though? Yeah, I mean I think they asked
him specific questions about the car and its condition and they were seeing each
other every day. I mean not only were they in a romantic relationship, they both worked at Wellins, so they would
often have lunch together. Um I think they had lunch together the day prior and so um you know he would see he would
see her often. >> Detective Okonnell who interviewed Pearson back in 1988 said that Pearson
was actually very forthcoming when when he was questioned. He agreed to many interviews, in fact, and that he even
took a polygraph. He passed the polygraph. So, Detective Okonnell felt like it wasn't like Pearson was trying
to hide anything at the time. >> Okay. And at the time, there's still some question marks about Bob, but
there's really no evidence connecting Bob or anyone else to Debbie's murder. So, the case goes cold, right?
Meanwhile, Bob continues to live life. He raises the couple's daughter, Rihanna. Um, she's in her late 30s right
now. you spoke to her. She describes him as a great dad. He's doing and attentive
and he's a fantastic grandfather to her three children. Um she does not believe that he had
anything to do with her mother's murder. Yeah. You know, it was it was heartbreaking speaking with her, of
course, because here's a a a young woman who never even knew her mother. She was
8 months old when her mother died. So, she feels that loss still very greatly in her life. And then now she said she
feels like she's lost the only person that she [music] feels she could count on her entire life and that was her
father who raised her. And she does feel like he is 100% innocent. Well, decades after Debbie's murder,
detectives and prosecutors with the cold case unit start looking at Bob Atrops again. [music]
And we have seen this before, Natalie. Sometimes it's the same evidence but with fresh eyes and they see things
completely different. Fresh eyes and new technology. I mean, keep in mind from 1988 now to, you know, 30 plus years
later how much DNA uh has changed things when it comes to cold cases. There was,
you know, Debbie's coat with that. They take a look at the DNA evidence and they
were able to exclude John Pearson and Jeff Freeberg who was a former ex but he was no longer romantically involved with
Debbie. However, they couldn't definitively exclude Bob Atrops. Now, the defense points out the amount of DNA
that they had was the equivalent of perhaps six skin cells, which is a minute amount. So, they said this is
like the weakest bit of evidence that you could possibly even have. Um, and they said as well, according to the
defense, the fact that they shared custody of Rihanna, it's expected that there would be some sort of
crosscontamination with DNA. And remember those soil samples that I talked about from the driveway and the
evidence that was on the car. So, the FBI analyzed the mud that was found on the tire of the car and also they looked
at the soil that was taken from Bob Atrops's lawn and they said that the mud on the tire was indistinguishable from
the mud from Bob's lawn in color, composition, and texture. So, that would be a real compelling piece of evidence.
In fact, there became this whole part of the trial that was all about the soil evidence. They had soil experts testify.
The defense said though when it comes down to it, it's soil that is so common place in the Wamut Valley that they're
like, "How could you definitively say that it's Bob at Trops' lawn?" Yeah. And so then detectives do something really
interesting like one of the holes in Bob's story back then is about these phone calls, right? How come there's no
record of these phone calls you say you made? So they rein him in 2022 and they ask him again about that night and the
phone calls he made, but this time he's got a different story that he didn't tell them the first time around.
>> Right. So So Bob is a salesman and so at the time he was. So his now he's telling
detectives, you know, all these years later, well, those phone calls weren't there because I used an MCI calling card
to make those calls. And the prosecutors are like, "No, no, no. That just doesn't
add up." Because when you make a call using these calling cards, then you have to punch in this code, this 16digit
code. It just didn't sound like the act of a frantic husband who's calling 911, but then also is he like sitting there
punching in the code to to, you know, just try to make these calls. It It just didn't add up to the prosecutors.
>> Yeah, that it makes a lot of sense. >> The defense, however, presented somebody
at the trial who said that the equipment could have been faulty at the time and it didn't necessarily record all the
calls that came through in the area. >> Okay. Um, but ultimately detectives do arrest him, right? He's arrested in
March of 2023 um for Debbie's murder. What about the other suspects though? Because I got to
tell you, when I was watching Yes. Initially the phone call was it was troubled me. But later on I thought,
well, what about John? I mean, there are other people. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, Jeff Freeberg, I
think Detective Okonnell, they pretty much figured he was not a person of interest. Also, back from the lab, the
DNA evidence, the mixture uh from the coat from from Debbie Atrops's coat excluded John Pearson. However, what was
interesting about John Pearson, he had apparently moved to Arizona and was living in a trailer when 5 days before
Bob's trial, two police officers show up outside the trailer, they are out there.
They're saying, "We're here. We want to talk to you." John Pearson looks out the
window, sees them, and then kills himself. See, for me, that was I I thought, "Wait a minute. Why would you
do that?" Right? What are you trying to hide? Right. According to the prosecution, he had a DUI apparently
that he was um wanted in court for. Take a listen. >> Um he had an open criminal case. I
believe he he thought they were there to arrest him for this misdemeanor warrant
and and took his life. >> The prosecution also noted his family said he wanted to testify against Bob at
Trops. We don't really know what was going on in his mind at the time, but investigators and the prosecutors truly
believe there is no evidence that points to John Pearson in this case. That all the evidence squarely pointed at Bob at
Trops. >> So when Bob is arrested though, his daughter Rihanna is completely blindsided.
>> Yeah. Rihanna, you know, she's just been so upset at the entire process. She said, you know, she got a call at 5:00
a.m. that morning telling her that her father, Bob Atrops, had been arrested. Beyond that, she says that at trial,
they kept calling her Rihanna instead of Rihanna, which is how her name is pronounced. She was never given a
victim's advocate, whereas Debbie's brother and stepfather had a victim's advocate at their side. Um, here's a
little bit more of what she had to say. The prosecution stood there in trial and
made me out to be the most important thing in my mom's life. I'm her baby, her daughter,
but the prosecution never treated me as such. >> Um, so I asked the prosecutors about
that. I I asked the point blank. I mean, how did they feel about how they treated
her? And here's what they had to say. And and during the trial, Rihanna told us that she was not contacted by a
victim's advocate from your office. Um even though here it is, it's her mother who was murdered. Um
>> why not? >> We have the indication that she didn't want to have any contact with us. Um
that she was on the defendant's side um and that wasn't interested in in being part of our case or having contact with
the prosecution. That was my understanding. She also said that she was not informed
ahead of time when the autopsy photos were going to be shown in court on the day during the trial. Um, meanwhile, you
know, Debbie's brother had been informed ahead of time and he left the courtroom
because he knew it would be too hard to see. What do you say to that? >> Yeah, I mean, I I can't imagine how that
would feel. Um, again, her not having contact with our office, we it's difficult for us to sort of alert
everybody in the courtroom, here's what we're about to do. And certainly that was not intentional.
>> Yeah. You know, sometimes it's the nature of the system that, you know, if you're not a defendant and you're not a
witness, then it's like you don't have a role, >> right? And that's that's how she feels.
she feels that she got lost in the process, but also that they excluded her because they knew she was on her
father's side and she was going to defend him all the way. So then what sort of evidence did the prosecution
have? What sort of evidence did they present that connected Bob to this crime? Perhaps the most compelling part
of evidence, according to the prosecution, was the alleged pattern of domestic abuse in their relationship.
Debbie's mother had told police at the time of the murder that Bob at Chrops was verbally, physically abusive and
very controlling, that she immediately suspected that Bob was the killer. And as we mentioned earlier, her friend
Tammy Nelson testified that Debbie told Tammy that he had choked her before. I mean, that right there is is is
evidence. Um Tammy also told the defense team that Debbie told her that um she was scared of Bob, especially when they
had to hand off Rihanna. That's when those moments, those confrontations could happen. And that's exactly what
prosecutors believe is what happened. When Debbie went to the house that night, he had found out about her
relationship with John Pearson. And that set it up for that night for this confrontation and and and for him to
then in a fit of rage um strangle Debbie Atrops. >> Um the defense argued, however, that
Debbiey's stories were unreliable. We hear this version of Bob, but at trial, there were a lot of people that
were there supporting him, not just his daughter. Yes, he had a lot of support, including
his fourth wife uh was there. He's, you know, been married since 2011. He did have two other marriages and divorces
after Debbie's murder. Um so, you know, but as Chris Luman, the uh assistant prosecutor, said that he can be charming
and he he knows how to get his way and how to have people, you know, believe him.
So ultimately though, the jury does find him guilty of murdering Debbie Atrops. The defense was rather emotional and you
don't see that very often. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, defense attorney April Yates uh was very emotional. She said that Bob at
Trops is is in an innocent person who has been convicted. Of course, Rihanna is now a victim twice over. That's the
way she feels. She mentioned that to you. uh she never got to know her mother and now she's also lost her father and
she gave a really powerful statement at his sentencing. I'm curious about the reaction um when she read that
statement. It was it was a moment that I felt was very very telling. You know, Rihanna is there. She's pleading with
the judge to you know spare her father to to be more lenient in the sentencing telling the judge that she and her three
kids they need their father and grandfather. Um Bob at that point he hardly ever looks in her direction and
and hardly ever looks up from the table. Now the question is is he so racked with
guilt or is this somebody you know who's just being stoic and having to deal with
you know this verdict and now the sentencing. It's hard to say how you would interpret it. I think it's up to
the viewers's interpretation here. But as a parent, if that was my child saying, "I need my parent." I just can't
imagine not being emotional in that moment. >> Absolutely. Bob Hops received a life
sentence with the possibility of parole after 25 years. If he is to be released,
he would be 93 years old at the time. How is Rihanna grappling with this? >> She says she's trying to be strong and
she's trying to keep up the fight, but she's very upset. And and really at the heart of all of this, this is truly a a
tragic love story. It's so clear when you see from the very first frames of the home video, you know, after adopting
Rihanna, how much Debbie Atrops bonded with that baby. That love just screams through the screen and you can't help
but think all that was lost. And Rihanna says she feels that loss every day. And
now, of course, she's dealing with having, you know, to to lose her father in the process as well. Yeah.
>> So, it's it's a tragic story all around. >> Absolutely. Decades waiting for some
sort of justice and then there are other people involved who think there's no justice at all, but ultimately my heart
breaks for Rihanna and everything that she has lost. >> Yes. I mean, she's she's a strong person
and you know, fortunately, she has a lot of people who are supporting her through
this. >> Yeah, that's that's good to hear. [music] That's good to hear. Thank you
so much, Natalie. >> Thank you. And if you like this episode, please rate [music] and review us on
Apple Podcast or Spotify.

48 Hours correspondents Anne-Marie Green and Natalie Morales discuss the 1988 murder of Debe Atrops on Post Mortem. They examine early red flags pointing to her estranged husband and the evidence presented at trial 37 years later.

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Deborah Atrops' murder case spans decades, leading to her estranged husband Bob's arrest and conviction in 2023.

Key points

The Unsolved Murder of Deborah Atrops. Deborah Atrops was found strangled in 1988, and her case remained cold for decades.
Bob Atrops: The Estranged Husband. Bob Atrops quickly became a suspect after Deborah's disappearance, raising questions about his actions.
The Role of DNA Evidence. New DNA technology excluded some suspects but couldn't eliminate Bob Atrops as a potential killer.
John Pearson's Mysterious Death. John Pearson, Debbie's boyfriend, committed suicide just before Bob's trial, raising more questions.
Rihanna's Heartbreaking Experience. Debbie's daughter, Rihanna, felt sidelined during the trial, despite being a key figure.
Rihanna's Heartbreaking Plea. Rihanna pleads with the judge for leniency in her father's sentencing.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Oh, yeah, he's the one.

Initial suspicion of Bob Atrops after Deborah's disappearance.

1:53WatchJan 31, 2026

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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