The Hammer Man /// Part 2 /// 691 | Forensic Files

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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
with me as always is a man who much like myself believes that the slogan for our
show should be true crime garage try it with cold pizza here is the captain Oh hell yeah it's good to be seeing and
good to see you thanks for listening thanks for T of [Music] friends today we are still sipping on
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list a new promo codee's going out this week that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a
chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] having seen the reports the criminal
history of a one hary L kigan detectives Dwayne homman and William Bowman of Seattle PD are investigating this
individual because he's the owner of this successful gas station where supposedly
the missing girl 15-year-old Kathy Sue Miller was supposed to go to fill out paperwork to
apply for a job at this gas station our situation is this police are armed with two things suspicion about a man that
they know has a lengthy history a lengthy violent history that includes rape and murder they also have this
other item of two persons Kathy Su Miller's mother and her boyfriend both saying that they were aware that she was
supposed to meet with that man on the night that she never came home the problem here is Captain we don't have a
body we don't have a witness saying that they saw Kathy Sue Miller get into this
man's car all we have is this guy with this lengthy criminal history telling police I went to the location she wasn't
there now police go back the detectives go back to Kathy Sue Miller's mother and
they tell her look we are every bit as concerned as you are here's our findings we talked with the owner of the gas
station we interviewed him there's nothing suggesting that we should arrest him there is nothing suggesting that we
could find any evidence to build a case against this guy however here's what we know about him here's his background we
are terribly afraid that he has done something very bad to your daughter Mrs Miller of course agrees now
she's beyond words right inconsolable all of her suspicions how have now been verified
minus physical proof minus seeing her daughter and she tells the detectives okay so what are you going to do are you
going to get a search warrant search his home home search his property search his
business his cars she's hoping that they could search his home and because we have such a short
window of time that's expired that possibly they would find her daughter maybe being held captive at his
home reluctantly the detectives have to tell the mom we're sorry there's nothing no evidence no proof here we
cannot get cannot secure a search warrant at this time we will keep watching him we will keep interviewing
him we're going to continue to talk to other people but we need to build a case against this guy at the very least to
get those search warrants to try to find evidence or perhaps find your daughter well the man that Kathy talked to last
has a suspicious and deadly past as a parent I would think that would raise the world worry level up quite a bit
couple days after she's missing the mother receives a phone call from a male caller this is very strange this is a a
Crossroads for this mother because on one hand you got to feel like this is horrifying right could this be the
person that took my daughter the other thing is it could be somebody calling in a
ransom right and that the daughter has been kept held against her will but is unharmed and healthy and now they're
calling in the ransom so they can collect and return the daughter and keep in mind this is
1973 this is still years not too far removed from when ransoms were very common when a child or youngster would
go missing and and was abducted and the detectives told the mother to actually hope for a ransom caller and we do know
from other cases that we've covered and stories that we've covered here that you
can get a ransom call that could be a hoax but in a weird way Mrs Miller is hopeful when she hears the man's voice
on this phone call now it turns out not what she wants it to be but it is a breadcrumb hopefully a breadcrumb trail
leading her to her daughter the caller says that they had found some school books he's calling from a business right
and in their parking lot area found and recovered some school books and when looking through the school books they
discovered the name along with a phone number and they were simply calling to return the books The Lost Books to the
rightful owner this is her daughter's school books remember she went directly from
school never came home and was last seen waiting for the owner of the gas station
to pick her up police get these school books and they're looking through the books for a
clue this is really interesting to me too because this is something I've seen with primarily with
plastics and things of that nature but I've seen it on occasion with paper as well you talk about the John Benet case
right and there's been other Ransom notes and the the Larry Jean Bell case they fingerprinted some paper in that
case as well this case what they did was they they tested they attempted to lift
prints from the school books hey and if you're going to be a part of the True Crime world you're going to have your
moments where you're going to really lay into law enforcement bash law enforcement but this is one where you
have to give kudos to them because what what do we have already in this case we have a possible
suspect so this guy's saying ah I've never met her never picked her up but if you can find fingerprints on those books
that match his fingerprints then you know he's not telling you the truth yeah and even if you can't trace
it back to this guy let's say you pull prints from these books and it's from somebody that's in your system right now
you have somebody else to talk to the unfortunate situation ends up being that the only Prince they pull from the books
are of the persons at this place of work that they recovered them from and because they have such strong
suspicion on Harvey Kagan they have no reason to suspect the persons that seem to just be a Good Samaritan trying to
return these Lost Books right so it doesn't really give them any breadcrumbs and it also doesn't really lead them or
build any evidence against their Prime Suspect who we know they will have Harvey carigans Prince
on file because he's been convicted and charged so many times prior to The Disappearance of Kathy Sue
Miller unfortunately Captain Kathy Sue Miller's body is found months later by two boys who are hiking on an Indian
reservation North of Everett Washington right she was wrapped and bundled in a sheet of visqueen
plastic and beaten with a heavy object believe to be possibly a hammer that left nickel sized holes in her skull is
this a plastic unique the plastic is not unique so Vis Queen some of our listeners will be familiar with this
this is the type of plastic that you would find at when like when somebody's doing a home remodeling project or a
construction project that you would buy these large sheets these large rolls of visqueen and you can roll it out and
unfold it and then you can use it kind of like Dexter to corn off a a whole area and so you
don't in in remodeling projects you don't get dust and debris everywhere especially when you're when you have to
do demo and things like that this F Queen though is going to be a potential breadcrumb
Trail and what's so great is this will allow them officers home in and Bowman to get that search warrant that they
were Desperately Seeking in the Cathy Su Miller case so you have the body the visqueen becomes important
because what they end up doing is they they get a a call a gentleman reaches out to the detectives and says oh by the
way I kind of know Harvey caran we're kind of friends and I happen to give him a role of visqueen
plastic prior to when this kid went missing and they say okay great do you have any any that you used prior do you
still happen to have any that you used prior and luckily so I believe the way the story goes is that he used some to
lay down in in the trunk of either his wife's or daughter's car so they're able to retrieve that now what they're hoping
the detectives are hoping is that they're going to get some kind of match to one of the cut sides or torn sides of
the visqueen that they found Kathy Sue wrapped up in and what happens is they compare the
two and unfortunately it's not a match now that doesn't mean that it didn't come from the same role right it just it
just means that it wasn't it wasn't directly torn or cut from the sheet that they had as a sample
and so this is is a bit of a Debbie Downer for their investigation as far as building evidence against Harvey Kagan
yeah a little bit of a let down for old homman and Bowman but because they get this search warrant they are granted
permission to search his property and his Vehicles as well as the business itself inside his
vehicle they are able to take a bunch of prints now this is interesting too because the other part that you have
here Captain is you now have an additional crime scene the location of where her body was found and so this is
the to lip reservation where her body is located they find some witnesses at this reservation that
described a truck that they had seen driving into the woods so this would be near the body recovery
site right on the same day that Kathy Sue Miller vanished they describ this vehicle as a
Chevrolet camper truck yellow with black stripes and a silver canopy that's a pretty unique
description yeah that sounds like a unique creepy camper Chevrolet camper truck yellow with black stripes and a
silver canopy I think when you go to buy the the truck camper bed combo that they make sure that you have
a criminal history or you're not allowed to buy one the thing here in this situation is that is a spot on
description of Harvey kin's truck right we get three different colors there we get we get the make we
get the canopy silver canopy cover yep and all of that lines up on the day that this kid went missing so police are like
okay well it we have a murder case here but now we have the ability to check for fingerprints in this
vehicle because unfortunately what you're looking for is you're trying to put your victim in that
vehicle you want to find her fingerprints what they do is they pull a few prints they were palm prints off of
the window pane the inside of the window pane and they know that they're not Harvey carrian
Prince they go back to the mother with this information here's the problem and this happens still to this
day 50 years later but especially a problem in 1973 and we've talked more than one time
here in this garage show about the identic Kats that you can get from the FBI you can get them from our friends
over at the Nick Mech the national Center for missing and exploited children right these are identic Kates
to update all of your kids information this is fingerprints palm prints an updated picture an updated description
of height and weight and eye color and hair color and all that stuff with your CH child's information this is key here
and look in this situation it's not going to save Kathy Sue Miller unfortunately but what it could do is
put her proof positive in the Killer vehicle and get this monster off of the streets before he does it again the
problem here though Captain is Kathy Su Miller 15 years of age 3 weeks before her sweet 16 birthday had never been
printed had never been fingerprinted right they pull unidentified palm prints from the inside the interior of this
vehicle but they got nobody to match them to nobody in the system and they can't can't even compare him to their
Victim Because she was never printed and by the time she's found she's in a state of decomposition
that does not allow them to pull prints and and they took they took some great efforts to try to to still fingerprint
her after death and they were unable to put her and place her in the car the other problem too is the people more
than one person witnessing this very unique the three different colors on this vehicle the make they had it down
to every description every detail that you can think of mhm the problem ends up being none of these Witnesses while they
saw the vehicle on that same day they couldn't describe the driver they they all said we never saw the driver we
never saw anybody get in or out of the vehicle well we see this a lot with many serial killers especially back in the
day because of less technology but it seems like these killers that are able to kill for a a longer span of time time
there's a little bit of luck on their side unfortunately it's been my experience that the killer gets lucky
and the dead victim just never ends up with much luck and you have to believe it was never reported but I would I
would be willing to bet here that they probably tried to find her prince in the business or at his home or decided to
not go that route once they learned that she had never been printed you pointed it out and I second it I Echo that
statement of here's these two detectives doing everything that they can even before it's confirmed that she was
abducted or missing that she wasn't some runaway so what's the next step for these
detectives the next step is trying to build a case against this guy right you want to build a case against him for
Kathy Sue Miller's abduction and murder but if you can't they're running into dead end after dead end here the
evidence is always leading them back to Harvey carrian but not giving them enough proof to make an arrest not
enough proof to charge him with anything and bring him in and and and bring him before the
courts I do want to point out something that I that I failed to mention earlier when we talk about the efforts that
these two detectives were making against Harvey Kagan even before Kathy Sue Miller's body was found they were
following him when when they had any extra time that they not working other cases they were surveilling Harvey kman
one they were hoping that he might return to the body and that they that they would find
her that way and that would be their Smoking Gun oh we've we followed you to the recovery site right he never did any
of that when they were following him around and so they're trying to build this case against him now her body's
found the evidence all leads to him but it's not proof that it was exactly him that did any of this now we end up
having another situation very similar this is a month and a half later approximately where a young woman Mary
Townsen is attacked she's waiting at a bus stop he approached and attacked her from behind knocking her unconscious she
woke up and when she does she is in a vehicle with a man this man begins commanding sexual
favors and she manages to LEAP from the vehicle now this is very unfortunate she was running away from
home right and even though she's attacked and everything this guy's saying sounds
like it's going to lead to a sexual assault she thankfully is able to escape she doesn't report
this crime at the time part of it was because she was running away from home and so this goes unreported and
then during this time this is where police are going to try to get their break they interview Harvey carrigan's
family remember he's married to a woman that has two children and during the course of all of this we got a whole lot
of stuff that's going on inside of the Four Walls of that home one the little boy 11 or 12 years old at this point
Billy he decides to go and live with his father why because he says that Harvey his stepfather is physically abusing him
beating him up right the daughter still lives there she is roughly the age of our victim Kathy
Sue Miller she had has told I I I this part of the story is a little difficult for me I don't know if
she's reporting this well after the fact or if this was known at the time but at
some point she would tell others that she didn't like the way that her stepfather looked at her she always felt
uncomfortable around him but never really reports that that he did anything to her mhm unfortunately what we do know
is happening is he is regularly getting upset with his wife and being pH physical and abusing
her so his wife Alice she's in the process of trying to leave Harvey she files assault charges against him so the
detectives are at least able to pick him up on these assault charges now unfortunately they're not going to be
able to hold him for very long but they take him off the streets and they were hoping that this would be the Crux of
the future case that they could build against him maybe Alice is his wife or soon to be ex-wife knows something about
this or she can provide evidence to them but that's not going to go the way the detectives want it to go no because
at some point Harvey's going to convince her that they should be together and that she should drop the charges now
what ultimately ends up happening is that she doesn't decide to go back with him so he Harvey carrian again this is
incredibly shocking to me he ends up finding another woman to date she's 29 years
old 29 years old Elaine Hunley and they strike up this relationship and they move out to
Minnesota remember he he had been in Minnesota prior to going to Seattle Washington right the detectives tell him
look you shouldn't be leaving the state we're investigating you for several different crimes one including murder
and he says you don't have a choice I have to work he decides to sell the gas station he moves to
Minnesota and it's obvious to detectives that he's trying to duck these charges go to a place where they have no
jurisdiction and they've not been able to build a case against him yet and once in
Minnesota they are living together him and Elaine Huntley are living together at some point she decides to break off
this relationship I don't know why exactly she decides to break off the relationship but we do know that he was
physically abusive to his two prior wives oh he's fugly right right you better have a nice personality when you
look like Harvey KET it's hard to he's hard to look at she breaks off the relationship and
then presto changjo poof disappears I mean he is so fugly that it kind of hurts your eyes it's like stings a
little bit I'm unsure how they narrowed down this date I'm sure that Elaine Hunley probably told some of her friends
or family what was going on in their relationship but the report is that she left Harvey Kagan on August 9th 1974
this is after they're already settled down living in Minnesota she leaves him August 9th of
1974 it's reported that she's missing had disappeared the next day unfortunately Elaine Hunley her body
would be found a little under five weeks later and she had been murdered her skull she was beat so badly that her
skull had imploded by blows to the head and she had been raped red with an object in a tree branch and that was
rather obvious during the autopsy of course that is going to now put Harvey KGAN under the microscope in the state
of [Music] Minnesota [Music] ah the sounds of the holiday because when you open a college
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tax break and peace of mind for whatever is ahead register before December 31st and you could be one of two lucky
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[Music] [Applause] [Music] 2023 all right we are back cheers M tall cans in the air he's back and I'm out to
lunch yeah he's been out to lunch for years this brings us to September of 1974 on our timeline here
Captain when a young woman her name is Gwen Burton she's picked up from a Sears parking lot this is because she's having
car trouble and a man who she thought might be helpful a Good Samaritan decides to stop and offer her assistance
he gets out of his vehicle takes a look at her vehicle and says look I can help you out here but I don't have the tools
needed to to take care and fix the problem if you hop in the vehicle with me we can go to my house real quick pick
up the tools I'll fix up your car and send you on your way right so Gwen thinks here we got a situation where
maybe someone's come to help me and she gets in the vehicle and she realizes look this ride seems very
long why would this guy why would anybody agree to help me if if we got to go so far away to get to his home just
to get these tools right so she starts feeling uncomfortable and and says to him
look could you please just return me to my car you don't have to fix the car it was nice of you to to attempt it was
nice of you to try to help me out but you know you make excuses I'm in a hurry or uh any reason to get out of that
vehicle at this point because she's now getting very nervous and she doesn't feel like we're going to his house to
retrieve tools take me back to my vehicle at some point she starts telling the man or you
could just let me out here and I'll figure it out I'll I'll find my way back to my car or to my
home it is then that he refuses to let her out of the vehicle and he gets physical with her ripping off of her
ripping off her clothing and he's choking her in the vehicle he then takes her to
a field where he sexually assaults her with a hammer and then beats her with said
Hammer and flees the area unbeknownst to the man Gwen Burton survives bloodied and close to death she
crawls to help well to have the strength to keep going sometimes the will to live
is stronger than the will to die so that was September 14th now this will bring us up to
September 18th four days later we have two teenage girls who are walking on the side of the road when they are
approached by a man in a vehicle and he offers them he offers to pay them $25 each and what he is requesting is
that he needs to go retrieve his son's vehicle from an A a location that he may have told to the girls I'm unclear on
that but he's saying look the problem is I'm by myself I'm flying solo here I need somebody else to drive either my
vehicle or his vehicle once I get to it I will pay you each $25 it won't take long it his vehicle is only a couple
miles down the road this seems like Easy Money a lot of money at the time for the
girls and so they say yes they get into the vehicle with this man that they do not know and after they're driving for a
while again he's he's now going out out into out into the country out into the sticks and they're starting to wonder
like this seems a lot further than what he had told us and one of them questions
the man and says look where are we going this doesn't make a lot of sense this is
a lot further than you had said and we we have things to do we you know our parents are going to be looking for us
at some point and the man says to the two teenage girls would you rather be killed or
would you rather be raped and the one girl nudges the other girl and speaks up for both of them and
says we would rather be killed the other girl agrees and says we would rather be
killed when the man finally stops the vehicle he instructs the girls that one of them is to stay with his vehicle and
the other is to go with him to retrieve his son's vehicle unfortunately for the girl who agrees to go with this man I
believe she agreed to go with the man to spare her friend this trip this walking trip away
from his vehicle is going to take them into the woods which of course these are teenage girls they're not idiots they're
wondering why there's no way this guy's kid's son's vehicle is in the woods no but I believe she went with him simply
to spare her friend yeah I mean I think once once he poses the question rape would you rather be raped or killed I
think they know that they're not going anywhere I think at that point they know everything before that question was a
ruse exactly and here's the weird thing though what we would learn is it said that he didn't say that in like a like a
threatening manner even though just those words in themselves are threatening but they said that he almost
posed it like a philosophical question right uh hypothetical of some some sort regardless now she's in the woods
with this guy and and he does physically attack her he he hits her with a hammer and then for unknown
reasons there he decides to let her live and he gets in his vehicle and he drives
off leaving the two girls there now what we end up having here Captain is in the
course of these four days we end up having three different people three different young ladies that come forward
and go to police and they describe the vehicle that they were in they describ the man that they had
had talked to he we what we would ultimately learn is he used a fake name on both occasions
when introducing himself and talking with the the victims that were in his vehicle but unfortunately this does not
lead to an arrest fast enough because on September 20th 1974 2 Days Later 18-year-old Catherine Schultz
disappeared her body was found the very next day in a corn field she had been beaten to death with a hammer so badly
that her skull had imploded and they knew that she had been sexually assaulted but
not in a traditional rape manner that she had been assaulted with an object okay so we're starting a lot of these
things are starting to align where you have these victims that survive these attacks and they're describing attacks
that are very similar to the ones that we end up knowing led to the death of Catherine
Schultz and Elaine Hunley Elaine Hunley was in the relation ship living with Harvey
KET all of this will lead to them securing a search warrant for his vehicle in Minnesota when they search
his vehicle underneath the seat they find maps to several different states and they find like it's it's described
almost as like a hair ball or a clump of hair but but the hair is not all belonging to the one person right and so
what detectives in Minnesota believe is that this is the hair of several different victims that found its way
either under the seat or or matted into the seat but these maps are of extreme interest to the detectives because that
has many locations that are circled in different states now we already covered that Harvey Kagan lived in Alaska he
lived in the state of Washington and he's lived in Minnesota well what they find
is two of the locations that are circled on those Maps one of them they know to have been
the location where 15-year-old Kathy Sue Miller's body was recovered from in the state of
Washington the other thing that they noticed too is that one of the circles on that map for the state of Washington
is where they found the body of a victim that we previously mentioned but did not go
through the story and that is of Laura lesie Brock remember she was a woman who went
missing just 70 days approximately 70 days after Kathy Sue Miller went missing right so the story behind this Captain
is on Thursday September 14th 1972 the body of a young woman 20 yearold Laura lesle Brock who was a sophomore at
Western Washington State College was found in Coupeville Washington down a dirt road about 1/ half mile west of Oak
Harbor the body was nude except for a pair of navy blue socks she had been raped and died from severe hemorrhaging
from several very brutal blows to the head with an undetermined object the body was found on the 14th and then
later identified on Tuesday September 19th 1972 authorities found a note at Miss
Brock's rooming house right that she was leaving for the beach and she spoke with
her grandmother prior to leaving and by all accounts her intention was to hitchhike we can confirm this based on
the fact that her grandmother told her in that conversation do not hitchhike and warned her of the dangers of
hitching right and Laura explained to her mother her grandmother that it's legal to do so and that she was in fact
going to hitchhike to the beach she was going from Bellingham Washington to the the Olympic Peninsula this is one of
those cautionary tales that all parents tell children and that friends warn one another about saying things like
remember Laura Brock her first hitchhiking trip was her last this case became political at the state level in
fact this is one of the policies that was in debate for a few years in the state of Washington we have Jim costanti
running for state senator pointing out that Senator Senator Peterson voted for what costan's team was calling a
legislative tragedy bad judgment for government is what he called it so well just because
something's legal like she's telling her grandma doesn't mean that it's safe exactly and here's that's the exact
problem so oddly enough legislation made hitchhiking legal in the state of Washington that year the very year that
she goes missing and she's later found dead with this horrific event the goal then became two-fold for the state one
any crime involving a hitchhiker to be sent to the state police and two make hitchhiking illegal again in the state
but to your point Captain listen to this statistic Washington State Police and the Seattle Washington Police Department
reported that over the course of about 15 months that once hitchhiking became legal in mid 1972 the stats are that the
state of Washington averaged about 20 hitchhiking related crimes per month two of which resulted in Murder that's too
many one is the Lura Brock case that we talked about in September of 72 and the other is Katherine Mary divine's murder
in November other crimes related to hitchhiking range from robbery to rape so not good Bob now note that Harvey was
never char charged with Laura Brock's murder and in fact no one else has ever been charged in her murder either but
Harvey kman all these years later 51 years later Remains the prime suspect in Laura
Brock's murder based on the fact that he received a speeding ticket in the area where her body was found right around
the time that she went missing on top of that we also have a witness who claimed
that they saw lore get into a vehicle that when they provided the description to police matched Harvey kagan's truck
well like we said sometimes these killers get unlucky but this killer is also just dumb I mean he has a very
unique paint job and color scheme of the vehicle he's using to abduct these women yes in this
situation you know he's he's getting lucky time and time again because they have a lot of signs they being the
authorities law enforcement detectives they have a lot of signs pointing directly to Harvey Kagan and a lot of
this but they don't have any direct evidence until they find these Maps now what they're going to do is they're
going to build a circumstantial case a mountain of circumstantial evidence against Harvey carrian in the Minnesota
cases the two cases that we circled back to Kathy Sue Miller and Laura Brock's cases they took place in Washington just
a couple years prior to what would ultimately be Harvey kman being arrested and interviewed
interrogated by the Minnesota police what ultimately happens here Captain is he gets an
attorney and Harvey kigan then tells police yeah the Minnesota crimes that you're charging me with because he the
problem he's facing here is those three living Witnesses right he might get lucky in the murders that he caused
because unfortunately he silenced those victims and they're not there to put him
away but the three living Witnesses are and he ultimately tells the detectives I did what you say that I
did his defense Insanity he says God told him to kill those women now the good thing here is that this
horrible evil man will 100% be off of the streets it's where do we send him to right an Institute
or a prison this thing goes to trial and they were very smart here on on a few different levels so they they charge him
with attempted murder and aggravated sodomy and he's going to have to go to trial
for those charges first before he will face any of the murder charges in court and he puts together this defense
of God told me to kill the [ __ ] and these women that I assaulted were [ __ ] and I tell you what this guy
this is what strikes me about Harvey caran he comes off as this kind of O like this dumb o like
part of that is his appearance and part of that is his delivery and the way his speech the way that he
talks but unfortunately he's not an unintelligent man he he is intelligent enough that
while on the surface this God told me to do it defense sounds absolutely crazy and
sounds so backwards but Harvey takes to the stand he's going to testify at court and he
does a pretty good job I've reviewed the transcripts and in fact if you read the
onead killer book by the great Anne rule she goes through large portions of that
trial he takes to the stand and he goes one-on-one with the prosecutor toe-to-toe
and one thing that is so bizarre but again he knows he's being locked up it's just where are you going to send him
to but he's going to play the part he should maybe you give him the Oscar I don't know but when he's on the stand
they point to uh one of the women that's there at court who he almost killed they point
to they point to Gwen Burton the poor woman that he picked up from the Sears parking lot offered a
help that he nearly Beat to Death death in fact we know captain that when he left her there in that field he believed
she was already dead mhm she crawls to safety and later is facing him in court and you know what he says he says you
know what yeah not only did God tell me to kill her but given the chance again I
would finish the job he says that on the stand at trial in front of the jury this is is meant to be a a tactic
to convince the jury that God is actually telling him to kill the hores what they what they trip him up on
is all of the sexual assault that she had to experience before he attempted to kill
her he gets convicted of the attempted murder and aggravated sodomy charges and then we're
going to follow that up with early the next year 1975 when Harvey KGAN is then found guilty on both uh sorry then we're
going to follow up that then we are going to follow that up with the following year in
1975 when he is charged with second deegree murder and first-degree murder and then found guilty on those charges
based off of a mountain of evidence and this defense of God told me to do it what tactic that I thought was really
interesting here captain and this is very mind hunterish this is something that the
first generation of M Hunters would would tell you to do Harvey kman did not like the two
detectives that stayed on his tail so much back in Seattle Washington homman and Bowman Dwayne homman and William
Bowman he did not like them the Minnesota authorities the prose utor reached out to the two detectives and
said please reached out to the Seattle Police Department please would you send one or both of the detectives to sit at
the trial just to unnerve Harvey Kagan just so he has to see one or both of the detectives that
he despised so much for following and tailing him all that time and basically running him out of Seattle Washington he
fled that area he makes it look like it was because of a relationship and a job opportunity but he had a successful
business in Seattle Washington sure enough they put one of the detectives in the courtroom at trial
but again the size of this man and the fear that this man instilled into others and we've talked about this before
Captain it's rare that members of law enforcement especially seasoned detectives are afraid of a certain
criminal one of the detectives did go to the trial but he told he told the prosecutor and the police
out in Minnesota he goes I will go because it will help you at trial and I want to see this guy put away especially
because we weren't able to put him away here for murders we know he committed but you have to promise me
that I get an aisle seat because I've seen Harvey KGAN mad and angry and upset and if he gets that way when he sees me
I don't want anything St standing between me and the [Music] [Music] door well Harvey the Hammer's luck would
finally run out at the age of 95 years old he would die in prison yes unfortunately Harvey kman was never
sentenced to death again after getting off of that charge for killing sha Walter way back in
1949 and so he is convicted sentenced to life in prison at the age of 49 so think
about that for a minute 30-year time span roughly that this man was out in killing and we believe five
murdered victims probably more and I say that just based off of the randomness of
his crimes in the time period that he committed these crimes he's at at the simplest form he's picking up a stranger
on the side of the road and then assaulting and killing them and then just leaving them out in the open he's
he's your typical disorganized killer serial killer charged and convicted of three murders definitely did five in my
humble garage opinion probably more he died in March of 2013 so 50 years after he killed
15-year-old Kathy Sue Miller he was diagnosed with he was diagnosed with prostate cancer in
1997 and lived all of these years in Oak Park Heights prison in Minnesota until passing away this year want to thank
everybody for joining us here in the garage this week Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful
listeners yes we do Captain this week I'm very excited to recommend to all of the listeners the want add Killer by one
of the greatest and one of the legends of True Crime storytelling the great an rule this is just one of her many
shattering and thought-provoking true crime stories make sure you check out the one ad killer and all of the other
great titles in an rules catalog and check out all of our recommendations by going to our recommended page on the
website true Crim garage.com and until next week be good be kind and don't [Music]
litter [Music] ah the sounds of the holiday because when you open a college savings Iowa account you're giving a
child the gift of Education to help pay for college and trade schools you get a tax break and peace of mind for whatever
is ahead register before December 31st and you could be one of two lucky winners to get
$529 College savings Iowa sounds like success visit College savings iowa.com today administered by the state
treasurer of Iowa

The Hammer Man /// Part 2 /// 691

Part 2 of 2

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1973 - Seattle, Washington; When 15 year old Katherine Miller did not return home from school, her mother notified the police. The following morning an investigation ensued. Katherine’s disappearance was immediately considered to be suspicious by seasoned detectives. The disappearance reeked of foul play. The detectives were quick to find a suspect and other cases that shared similarities to Katherine's. Was all of this the work of “The Hammer Man?” When one wants to do a thorough historical review of U.S.A. True Crime, there are those stories that must be told. This is one of them.

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Brief Summary

The episode details the investigation into Kathy Sue Miller's disappearance and Harvey Kagan's violent past, leading to his conviction for murder.

Key points

The Gift of Education. Opening a College Savings Iowa account gives children the gift of education and peace of mind.
True Crime Garage Introduction. Hosts Nick and the Captain introduce the show with a light-hearted banter.
Harvey Kagan's Criminal Past. Detectives investigate Harvey Kagan, a man with a violent history, in connection to Kathy's case.
Kathy Sue Miller's Disappearance. Kathy Sue Miller goes missing after planning to meet a suspicious gas station owner.
Discovery of School Books. A phone call reveals the discovery of Kathy's school books, leading to new clues.
Gwen Burton's Harrowing Escape. After a brutal attack, Gwen Burton crawls to safety, showcasing incredible willpower.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's dark and boozy, drink it in your garage.

Description of the Old Ale being consumed.

2:14WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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