The Fifth Suspect | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

Phoebe Judge: Today's episode is not okay for younger listeners, and it could be upsetting
to victims of sexual abuse. So please, use discretion. Mary: Every time someone sees his face, they say, he's Tommy Wall, that's the boy they
arrested. Even though they may know, or they may not know. He can never live it down.
You just don't have a charge of pedophilia and outlive it, you just can't outlive that.
Phoebe Judge: This is Mary. She's asked us not to use her real name. Her ex-son-in-law, Tommy Wall, was arrested as part of an investigation into a child pornography
and sex ring. Four people had already been arrested, three men and a woman. The ring was conducted under the guise of a daycare center in Sanford, North Carolina.
It's a horrible story, something none of us ever want to even have to think about, much
less have our name associated with. As Mary says, you just can't outlive that. I'm Phoebe Judge.
This is Criminal. [Music.] Gerald Owens: Harnett County investigators need your help to find a suspect in a child
pornography investigation. They say the man may be in Raleigh or the Fayetteville area.
Arielle Clay is live in Wilmington. Arielle, you just spoke with the lead investigator.
What did he tell you? Arielle Clay: Gerald, Detective Brad Byrd says that this unidentified man who he's looking
for as part of the biggest sex crimes case that he has ever worked. [Fades out.]
Phoebe Judge: The ring was run by a man named Bailey Joe Mills. Mills presented himself as a babysitter and mentor, but actually was producing child pornography
in the building behind his house, with victims ranging in age from 1 to 14. Mills was caught after he contacted a 13-year old on Facebook about paying her for sex,
and the girl's mother called the police. This was the big news story across North Carolina in June 2014.
Four people had been caught, but the police were still looking for the fifth man.
That's when Mary saw her former son-in-law on TV. Mary: I was sitting here in my reclining chair, in my living room, and the news came on.
And I was not paying real close attention to the television at that time. But when it came on the second time I paid attention, I said, "That's Tommy Wall."
And it was just nauseating. It was just absolutely nauseating. Tommy Wall: And so I was basically sitting at my kitchen table, working, and I get a
text from my location manager at the store, Kim West. And she said, "You look like the dude that’s on TV."
I said, "What?" Phoebe Judge: Tommy Wall is 50 years old, a divorced father of two.
Tall, white, thin hair. He's sitting in what seems like a brand new house in Four Oaks, North Carolina.
It's so clean and new, it looks like one of those show houses they put together for new
subdivisions. He has two pictures of his kids in frames. That's about it. Back in June, he'd been working for a construction supply company, the same one he'd worked for
for 23 years, when he got the text from his boss. Tommy Wall: She said, "You were on the news tonight."
I said, "No way." So she sent me, because I don't watch the news. So I didn't know.
And this was like seven something, seven o'clock. So she sent me a link and it was four people in the picture.
And I texted her back and said, "I don't look like none of them." It was a girl, a guy and — or three guys and a girl.
And I was like, "I don't look like them." And she said, "Scroll down." So I scrolled on my phone and I was like, "Wow, that is me."
And there was a little number, a phone number, under my picture. And I didn't read any of the article.
I just hit that button, was going to copy the number. Well, it dialed the phone number and a man answered the phone.
I said, "Who is this?" He said, "Who are you looking?" I said, "Whoever's putting my pictures on the website."
I said, "I want to know what's going on." Phoebe Judge: He had called the detective who was in charge of the case, Brad Byrd.
Tommy Wall: And he says, "Well, who is this?" And I told him my name. He says, "Well, where do you live?"
I told him where I live. I says, "I need to come down. We need to straighten this out right now."
I said, "This is — something's going on, and I don't know what it is." And I said, "I want to get to the bottom of it."
And the detective was like, "Well, we don't open till 8 tomorrow. Can you come at 8:30?"
I said, "8:30 tomorrow?" I mean, I'm thinking, "I want to do this right now." Phoebe Judge: Tommy was trying to get himself off the TV.
But what he had essentially done is handed them his own name on a plate. News Reporter: We just received word within the last 10 minutes that police have identified
who this suspect is. They have identified him as Tommy Wall, and he is not in custody, but they do know who
he is. They're still looking for him right now. Now, they released this picture of the suspect.
[Fades out.] [Music.] Phoebe Judge: The next morning, Tommy went to the Sheriff's Office right before 8:30,
as promised. Tommy Wall: I get there, and they called the detective and we go back into the interrogating
room for questioning. And he has a picture there, and he shows me this picture, and he says, "Do you recognize
this picture?" And I said, "Nope, what is it?" Phoebe Judge: It was a picture of the building behind the home of Bailey Joe Mills, the leader
of the pornography ring. Tommy Wall: And he said, "I just need to go and tell you, I'm going to arrest you."
And so he read me my rights and my phone was still gone. And he's reading and all this, and I looked at him, I said, "Dude, do you really think
I done this?" And he looked at me with this sarcasm look. He says, "Yeah, I've got you on video."
Phoebe Judge: It's true Tommy was on video. Here's what happened. In 2011, Tommy had been online dating.
One woman he met was the wife of Bailey Joe Mills. Her name is Elizabeth. Tommy went to the Mills' home to visit her.
He says he stayed for an hour. He says they fooled around a bit, and then he left.
The only time he ever saw her, he says. But Bailey Joe Mills appears to have had a camera rolling in the house.
We're not really sure why, maybe for security, who knows. But it caught Tommy's visit, and the video was saved along with a whole trove of other
materials, apparently including the child pornography at the center of the case.
So, he was on video from that visit three years earlier. The problem for Tommy was that the police were saying he was on other videos too, pornographic
videos. His bail was set at $1 million. [Music.] Tommy Wall: I went to a holding cell and I spent the day there and spent the night.
And the next morning I got up and they took me to court. That's when I went from my first court appearance.
And then in front of the judge, the DA read all the charges. And then the judge looked at me and she says, "You've asked for a court-appointed lawyer
and everything." I said, "Yes, your honor." And she says, "You know that these charges carry life in prison without parole?"
And I was like, "Whoa." Phoebe Judge: What are the charges? What are you hearing the judge reading?
Tommy Wall: Assisting rape and child molestation. And then solicitation of sex with a minors.
Phoebe Judge: Officially, the charges were first degree rape of a child, first degree
sex offense against a child and felony conspiracy. Tommy Wall: They're saying all these charges and I'm just, like, shaking my head.
I'm like, I don't ... this is ... Something ain't right. News Reporter: Investigators are releasing little about Wall's involvement, only saying
he performed a sex act with a child on film. Neighbor: Yeah. I've got a 2-year-old daughter.
We play out in the yard, and to think there's somebody like that living next door to you.
Mary: Tommy and I have always had a good relationship. And when all of this happened, everybody in the neighborhood thought Tommy was guilty.
So, I just never thought that. Phoebe Judge: This is Mary again, Tommy's ex-mother-in-law.
Mary is 80 years old. And she, along with Tommy's best friend growing up, Tim, we're basically the only people who
helped once Tommy was arrested. Are you saying even your neighbors, those people that you considered your friends, thought
he was guilty? Mary: Yes. Phoebe Judge: What was that like? Mary: Well, it was not easy, especially when you go to church and people are asking you
questions about such a sensitive matter. It was not easy. Phoebe Judge: Two days after seeing his picture online, Tommy was sent to the Harnett County
Jail to await trial. He was terrified. He did whatever he could to stay close to the guards.
Tommy Wall: And I'm sitting there at the TV. And the first thing I do, I'm sitting there, I try to stay in the very first seat closest
to the CO in case something was to go, I'd have protection. And I heard this guy behind me.
He's like, "That's the dude. That's the dude that was on TV last night." Phoebe Judge: More than a month passed.
Tommy cycled through some public defenders, eventually ending up with a court-appointed
private attorney named Fred Webb. The first thing Webb did was go visit Tommy in jail.
Fred Webb: He was humped over. His appearance was of disbelief and not in such a way as that, "Well, I just didn't do
it." No, "They got the wrong guy." That appearance to me meant a lot to me. Phoebe Judge: Webb sat down with the files from the case.
And he says he found some inconsistencies. First off, the alleged fifth man in the ring, the man the police thought was Tommy, supposedly
changed his cell phone number every 90 days. Fred Webb: I thought that was something that could easily be tracked if that was true.
And I did track that, and I tracked that and determined that Mr. Wall had had the same
telephone number for over 12 years. Phoebe Judge: There was also the fact that Tommy Wall didn't have internet access at
his home. He says he never had. He didn't even have a computer. Fred Webb: And you would assume that people who get involved in that kind of activity
would at least have a desktop or something in their residence, whereby they could communicate
with people. That they would at least have an internet connection at home. And he didn't even have that.
Phoebe Judge: So what do you think when you're sitting there, you're going through these
80 pages. You're finding one thing after another after another. What are you thinking?
Fred Webb: Well, I'm thinking that they've got the wrong guy. And if there were videos that showed him, I wanted to see the videos.
[Music.] Phoebe Judge: Life in jail was hard for Tommy. He says he spent a lot of time alone in his cell, reading the Bible.
Then one day, he was served a search warrant. Tommy Wall: And he says, "This is the search warrant.
This is what we're going to do. We got to take photographs of you and your body without your clothes on."
I'm like, "Excuse me? Does my lawyer need to be here?" "Oh no, he'll get a copy of the photos."
And I was like, you know, you got two men standing there with pistols on, what do you
do? There's two of them, one of me. You know, I guess I got to take my clothes off.
Phoebe Judge: So, you're standing there naked in the room and they're saying, "Turn left,
turn right"? Tommy Wall: Hold your foot up, hold your hands. Taking my head. And all my private parts.
I mean, this man taking pictures of me. The first thing that popped in my mind is someone was going to try to take these pictures
and do something to incriminate me, because there was just the three of us in there.
The whole time I was thinking, "I can't trust what's going on." Phoebe Judge: A second month passed, then a third.
Fred Webb kept working on Tommy's defense strategy. And he was finally able to watch the video that allegedly placed Tommy at the center
of the ring. And, you know, I spoke with Tommy about this, and he says that he has not seen the video?
Fred Webb: No, he has not. And he cannot. Phoebe Judge: Can you describe what's on that video?
Fred Webb: No. Because of federal laws regulating the behavior. Phoebe Judge: Is it fair to say that this is behavior that would absolutely fall into
the label of child pornography? Fred Webb: Yes. Phoebe Judge: And when you saw it, did you know now for certain that Tommy Wall wasn't
the right guy? Fred Webb: To me? Yes. Phoebe Judge: According to Fred Webb, there were some physical things that made it clear.
But mainly he says it was the voice. It just didn't sound like Tommy. Did the district attorney say anything?
Was there any comment in the room? Fred Webb: His comment was that he did not want to keep a man incarcerated for something
that he didn't do. Phoebe Judge: And at that point, did Detective Byrd say anything?
Did he apologize? Did he say, "I think I've made a mistake here"? Fred Webb: No.
Phoebe Judge: I spoke with Detective Byrd and asked him about Tommy Wall. He said he couldn't comment on ongoing investigations.
When do you find out that you're going to be set free? Tommy Wall: I was just laying in the bed reading, and they said, "Tommy, you got an attorney
visit." So I get up and I walked out, and as I was getting ready to go through the doors, Fred
meets me in the hallway. Well, he doesn't have his notebook and all this. And I'm like, "Oh, God."
He was teary-eyed. So we kind of go into our little room where the table's at. [Sniffling, crying.]
We didn't even sit down. He says, "Go home." He said, "I don't want to hear from you for a couple of weeks.
Just go on and get your life together. Be with your family." He said, "And I'll be getting back with you."
So, we had just come out of the room. All the people were in the room, and everybody was standing there, looking at me.
"What's going on? What's going on with Tommy?" So, I turned around and walked out the door, and I come through.
I said, "I'm going home." And it was like I had just won a tournament, and they were cheering and crying.
[Crying.] And I went and started packing up my stuff. That's when I go back, and they give me my clothes.
Phoebe Judge: The same clothes that you had put on three months ago, thinking you're just
Tommy Wall: Shorts and T-shirt and flip-flops. Phoebe Judge: Because it was like summer.
Tommy Wall: Yeah. I weighed 189 pounds the day I was arrested. And right before I left, I got Holly, which was one of the nurses.
I said, "I'm going home. Can you weigh me?" I weighed 151 pounds. Phoebe Judge: It had been 105 days.
[Music.] What was it like when you finally heard that Tommy — even though you had believed from
the beginning that this was all nonsense, that of course he couldn't have — but when
you heard he isn't guilty. He was never guilty. This wasn't Mary: I broke down and cried.
I was so overjoyed, when I heard that they had admitted they arrested the wrong person.
I was just completely overjoyed, because it was so grossly unfair to him. He can never live it down.
Phoebe Judge: In the months that Tommy had been in prison, he had lost his house.
There was some issue with him missing a loan repayment meeting, and the house was auctioned.
He'd also lost his job. The one he'd had for 23 years. After his name was cleared, he tried to go back to the company and talk with a woman
from HR. Tommy Wall: And basically she said, you know, "We're not doing it. We've changed the way things are run.
We don't have anything for you right now. And I just want to wish you well with your career."
And I says, "Do what?" She said, "Good luck with your career." And I said, "Okay, that's all I needed to hear."
Phoebe Judge: We called his employer, Stock Building Supply, and they said they don't
comment on legal or personnel matters. A lot of news outlets ran stories about Tommy.
The news clips you've been hearing are from WRAL, a local TV station. Tommy was interviewed for a followup story after he got out, and an editorial note has
been added to each of the old stories saying Tommy was cleared of all charges and his record
expunged. But his name and picture are still there. WRAL told us they didn't have anything to add to their coverage.
As for the actual fifth man, the guy Tommy was mistaken for, police haven't released
any information. We know that there are at least 10 victims and that police recovered tens of thousands
of pornographic images. Tommy hasn't lost sight of that. Tommy Wall: It's sickening that you could...
Basically hurt kids. You know, to me, anybody that hurts a kid should be punished.
Phoebe Judge: When we talked to him, he'd been out of jail for less than two months.
He says he sometimes has trouble leaving the house. He'll drive down the street and turn right back around.
Even if he's scared to go out, people have started reaching out to him. He actually got a text message while we were sitting there saying, "Congratulations, thinking
of you." Then he showed us one from the night before. Can you read it? Tommy Wall: [Weepy.]
What it was, it says, "Hey buddy, wishing you the best merry freaking Christmas."
And then she goes to say, "I have thought about you for months, and I hope you are doing
well. I really, truly hope your holidays are special for 2015. And God bless you.
Keep your head up. Love you. Hope to see you soon." Phoebe Judge: Maybe by next Christmas, the same text message won't carry so much weight.
[Music.] Criminal is produced by Eric Mennel, Lauren Spohrer, and me. Our episode art is by Julienne Alexander.
You can find out more about this show and our previous episodes at thisiscriminal.com.
We're on Facebook and Twitter, @CriminalShow. We're putting on a live show on January 21st at Motorco Music Hall here in Durham, North
Carolina. We'd love to see you if you're around. Criminal as a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX.
Check out the other shows at radiotopia.fm. If you're interested in supporting this and other podcasts like it, email sponsor@prx.org.
Radiotopia from PRX is made possible with support from the Knight Foundation and MailChimp,
who celebrate creativity, chaos, and teamwork. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Jingle: Radiotopia. From PRX.

In June 2014, authorities released information about a massive child pornography ring being conducted in North Carolina. Four suspects had already been arrested, and the police were asking the public for help finding a fifth suspect. But they didn’t need to look very hard — the suspect, a man named Tommy Wall, was about to turn himself in, almost by accident.

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. https://link.chtbl.com/n33u0HsA

Say hello on Twitter (@CriminalShow), Instagram (@criminal_podcast), and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ThisIsCriminal/.

Sign up for our occasional newsletter, The Accomplice https://bit.ly/accomplicenewsletter.

We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery.

Artwork by Julienne Alexander http://www.yssrs.com/.

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Episode transcripts are posted on our website https://thisiscriminal.com/

Episode 14 originally published 1/9/2015 [link to the specific episode on thisiscriminal.com]

Brief Summary

Tommy Wall was wrongfully accused in a child pornography case, leading to his exoneration after 105 days in jail.

Key points

The Arrest of Tommy Wall. Tommy Wall is identified as a suspect in a child pornography investigation, shocking his family.
Tommy's Shocking Discovery. Tommy Wall learns he is on the news as a suspect, leading to his arrest.
The Charges Against Tommy. Tommy faces life in prison for serious charges including child molestation.
Tommy's Exoneration. After months in jail, Tommy Wall is finally cleared of all charges.
Life After Exoneration. Tommy struggles to rebuild his life after being wrongfully accused.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I was just nauseating.

Mary's reaction upon seeing Tommy Wall on TV.

2:25WatchOct 27, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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