The Colonial Parkway Murders /// Part 2 /// 227 | Forensic Files

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GameChanger [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that often wonders why the word abbreviated is so
long he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seeing and it's good to see you thanks for
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Travelers billsburg is in the heart of Williamsburg surrounded in history and all that Jamestown stuff located just
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beer I think they're called Centaur let's talk some true [Music] [Music] crime 18-year-old Anna Marie Phelps had
recently moved in with her boyfriend Clint laow in Virginia Beach Anna Maria had Frosted blonde hair and a penchant
for blue eyeliner she loved the band Poison I don't get it twisted sister but that's not the only crime of this
episode well she had returned home to Emily this is located Southwest of Richmond to visit her family for the
Labor Day holiday weekend she was accompanied by Daniel low uh this is Clint's brother they were driving back
to Virginia Beach together Daniel was planning to move in with his brother and Anna Maria to help them with their rent
and to live near the beach apparently they both had jobs this couple but they I believe they made minimum wage at the
time so paying the rent was a struggle and the brother wanted to live near the beach it's kind of a win-win for all
involved So Daniel had packed up his car with all of his things they said goodbye
to Anna Maria's family who had warned them just before the two pulled off to lock their car doors and to drive
safely now they left about 11:15 p.m. on Labor Day Monday September 4th 1989 this
is a 2hour Drive East to Virginia Beach Anna Maria and Daniel never showed up at
their apartment in Virginia Beach Clint the brother called his mom to tell her that they hadn't showed up as expected
and she filed the missing persons report around 5:30 p.m. the next day a State Trooper spotted Daniel's gold 1972 Chevy
Nova in the westbound rest stop along I64 in New Kent which is odd because they're heading east yes I64 is a 1,000
mile major highway running between Missouri and Virginia this rest stop between Richmond and Williamsburg is in
the wrong direction the couple should have been driving east the rest stop is 30 Mi Northwest of the the Colonial
Parkway this rest stop had a reputation at the time as a meeting spot for drug deals and hookups the abandoned car was
on the lane leading onto the highway from the rest stop so picture this the car is basically half on half off of the
road it's almost blocking traffic the trooper was about to have it towed from the rest stop when a radio check linked
the car to a couple that was reported missing earlier that day this being the two that we've already discussed now
Anam Maria's purse and clothing were found inside the vehicle as was all of Daniel's stuff but Anna Ana Maria's
wallet was missing as was a blanket of Daniels a feathered marijuana roach clip was hanging on the partially open driver
side window yeah it was like clipped onto the window yeah it was later identified as belonging to Anna Maria
the key was still in the ignition one door was locked the other wasn't the car had plenty of gas I believe it was
reported that it had 34 of a tank of gas full tank of gas and seemed to be working just fine so there was no reason
for them to abandon the vehicle some Reports say that the glove compartment was open there was no evidence of a
struggle the car just seemed to have been left there for whatever reason there were sightings of the pair
and this took place both East and Westbound of where the two where the vehicle was found MH but these sightings
LED nowhere now I heard an investigator interviewed and he stated look we we did
have a lot of people say that they saw them after we found the vehicle the problem with this was he said look this
area at the time there was a lot of partying going on there would have been a lot of kids their age
in this area traveling to or from Virginia Beach right so these eyewitnesses could have saw a different
set of people and and according to this investigator he says look they to me they look like just any other he says
look a lot well he says look they look to me just like any other kids of that age at that
time he he goes I understand that they right you could easily mistake anybody for being these two now they set up uh a
search Okay police dogs were unable to pick up a scent of either of the missing individuals and they searched the
surrounding areas this turned up nothing almost immediately investigators began drawing comparisons to The Disappearance
of Keith and Sandy 18 months earlier and 35 miles to the South about a month after laow and Phelps went missing Larry
mccan a profiler and special agent with the state police police Bureau of Investigation told reporters there was
quote a very good chance that the recent cases were related a story in the Daily
Press in October of 1989 mentioned each of the four cases that are now known collectively as the Colonial Parkway
murders but now their their bodies are going to be found unlike the last couple well the issue here Captain is it's not
until October 19th this is when the bodies are found by hunters walking along an old secluded Logging Road found
the two sets of human skeletal remains in a wooded area this is about A4 mile off of Courthouse Road barely a mile
north of the exit off of I64 the bodies lay side by side and they were covered by a blanket later
identified as the one that was missing from the car Anam Maria's locket U necklace was lying on the trail whether
she had left it there as some kind of signal some kind of you know breadcrumb or the killer had dumped it there we
don't know the interesting thing here though is Captain while the locket was found on the
trail the necklace itself was was never found and because there was so much time that passed their
bodies are going to be pretty badly decomposed yeah we're looking at a period of what 45 days so these remains
were found about a mile from the rest area where the car was found State Police sent four crime scene texts and
two medical examiners to this scene it was pouring rain all day long so the the local fire department pitched in and
helped out they put up a canopy above the bones and they brought in a generator to Power electric lights used
in the search it was very muddy that day one Trooper slipped in a hole and and sank up to his knees and the crime scene
specialist painstakingly dug and sift through it until they found everything that they believe was left there
including the victim's fingernails they used several kinds of metal detectors that day and chemicals to detect blood
stains on the bushes signs were found to suggest that the murder site might have
been at the intersection of the Logging Road in the dirt Lane meaning that where
they found the car is not where they were killed more likely where the bodies were found is very close to where it's
believed they had been killed the victim's car had weeds up underneath of it that matched those at the believed
murder scene investigators concluded that the killer must have driven it to the dump I'm sorry driven it to dump the
bodies right and then had parked it in the rest area going the wrong direction from where the two victims were heading
strangely Anna Maria was found wearing Dennis Daniel's socks and shoes so this is very weird
right they're they're partially they're partially stripped but she's wearing his
socks and shoes somebody has one investigator had always wondered that several of the victims being found
without their shoes on if that was some kind of form of control you know that that one of the not only having them
partially undressed or all the way undressed but have them remove their shoes and maybe their shoes first that
way if they take off running it can be very uncomfortable to run out in these areas with no shoes on you might be you
might be slowed in your attempt to escape mhm the killer then used Daniel's blanket to cover the bodies from my
understanding the bodies were covered up to the neck area uh the bodies were left
outside for like 6 weeks badly decomposed as you had said they were identified through dental records it
took about two days for this process and in the course of those two days law enforcement they were kind enough to
reach out to both families and they said look we think that this is who we found
we've already found the vehicle and we think that we found your two loved ones we wanted you to hear it from us first
but we cannot confirm that until the dental records come back they didn't want the family to hear this on the news
and not from them yeah the bodies were sent to the Smithsonian institution national museum for natural history in
Washington DC so forensic anthropologists could look for hints at the cause of death the best they could do was to
identify a Nick in one of Anam Maria's finger bones potentially a defensive wound from from a knife attack once the
bodies were recovered it was undeniable in the minds of many people that Virginia had a serial killer on the
loose the FBI and the state police held a joint press conference in July of 1990
declaring that there was a possibility that the cases were all connected all related in asking the public for
help now the case is captain we're all different obviously but there are they are similar enough
that there are some patterns and connections between them so let's talk about the similarities and differences
in these murders so first we have all four were couples or at least appeared to be couples we
know that Becky and Kathy were dating we don't know whether they were targeted because they were a samex couple or not
but it is possible that the killer didn't realize that until he had already begun his attack it was very dark along
the parkway at night Kathy and Becky were inside a dark car presumably the killer looking to prey on couples may
have assumed that they were in fact man and woman Becky's hair at the time was on the shorter side so
perhaps the extreme viciousness of this attack was because the killer was angry that they were two women right when when
he had been looking for a guy and a girl several people close to the victims strongly suspect that David and Robin
were hooking up that night this is the second couple yeah and we know that according to some reports out there that
Robin had had sex recently before she was found and then we have Keith and Sandy who were on a first date if you
want to call it that and finally we have Daniel and Anna Maria who were driving together to Virginia Beach they weren't
a couple but you know there's much speculation that perhaps they had stopped along the parkway or stopped at
some point maybe having something to do with the roach clip that was later found
and so we have a situation here where all four situations would appear to be couples
yes now the first couple we're going to find them inside the car second couple we find outside the car third couple we
do not find at all fourth couple we find roughly about 6 weeks later and a distance away from uh the car that we
find another similarity all of these cases involved cars um many of the cars were left with open doors and or open
windows and some reported to have had the glove boxes open right which again I I I think this is
a I'm going to play both sides of the fence here possibly because the first murder being so
sloppy and that that they probably had reports saying that this possibly could be law enforcement possibly could be a
park ranger this possibly could be somebody pretending to be mhm that could be something that the killer uses to set
them up the second couple the third couple and the fourth couple because that individual is moving the car and so
if that individual is moving the car he's the one that's leaving the door open he's possibly the one that is
rolling down the window he's the one that's possibly uh opening up the glove box he's the one that's possibly taking
uh a wallet or something and put it on the dash to make it look like this this person that's stalking these
individuals is law enforcement right if we want to go as so far to believe that he's sophisticated enough to move the
vehicle and Stage the vehicle then we should think that he's sophisticated enough to Stage these other things at
the crime scene at the vehicle well and the reason why I have a gut feeling that
those are staged because if you are posing as a law enforcement if you are posing as a park ranger or something
that is your way to get these people to uh your victims to drop their guard right so if you're set you know what I
mean like so if you're using that to get people to drop their guard then don't you think when you move
the car you'd roll up the window shut the glove box put their wallet somewhere else well yeah because you don't want
law enforcement warning future potential victims mhm of this approach that hey look out for somebody pretending to be
law enforcement pulling people over or approaching Vehicles the third similarity that we should note here is
none of the cases involved any signs of a struggle and the cars were largely undisturbed with the exception of the
first attack the exception to this is the other situation in the first attack of Kathy having hair in her hand which M
I think we should assume to be the perpetrators as the FBI has not said that it was Becky's or her own hair so
this means that the killer somehow controlled the victims enough to get them out of their cars without actually
attacking them inside of the vehicles mhm in three of the crimes the victim's clothing items were found inside the
cars Kathy and Becky were found to be fully clothed first couple but the rest were either only partially clothed or in
the case of Keith and Sandy we don't we don't know we don't right but but we do have pieces of their clothing found in
the car quite a bit of pieces of clothing so we could assume that they're only partially clothed wherever they
went and I wonder because with the fourth couple and not being able to find them
for 6 weeks I wonder if I wonder if the third couple the killer buried maybe in a shallow grave
and with the search we've never found them and so therefore that's why he didn't possibly bury the fourth couple
and just left them out covered in with a blanket my other question would be how far from the water are they because we
saw with the second attack it it looks to me my speculation is with the second attack that the attempt was to throw the
bodies in the water and for whatever reason they washed ashore and in the third attack we have no bodies I wonder
if the killer was successful in placing them in the water and the tides took them away mhm so another similarity all
the crimes happen within 60 miles of one another ragged island in the I64 rest stop are each about 30 Mi away in
different directions from the central murders on the Colonial Parkway mhm the crimes all took place on a weekend and
two of them took place on a holiday weekend three of the crimes were in September or October and one of them was
in April so all of them took place in either fall or spring none at winter or summer and all took place at nighttime
yeah and you then it makes you wonder is this um killer does he have some kind of
job that they get holiday time well and all of the victims were young we should consider that as well Kathy being the
oldest at 27 years of age M now when I was listing out the similarities and the differences between the crimes okay so
that has us listed at seven obvious similarities in these crimes in my opinion there was one that that is
tricky there is one that doesn't really end up on either list as being a similarity or a difference and that is
the one that is reported so often in this crime that I think we should take a look at at take a new look at it for a
second because one that most people would consider to be a similarity amongst all
four of these crimes is that the general conception is that there's no mo there's
no uh motive I'm sorry not emo there's no motive in these crimes being that there's no signs of sexual assault and
there's no signs of robbery well let's go back on that real quick because the first couple we know were lesbians but
there was no sexual assault there the second couple we do know that Robin Edwards had sex with
somebody before her murder mhm the third couple Cassandra is never found so we don't know if there was
sexual assault attempted or not and then the fourth couple we got such bad decomposition that we can't even tell if
if there was a sexual assault or not so we can't rule that out as a possible motive no we absolutely can't and that's
why I don't think you can put that as a similarity saying that there's no obvious motive in either one of these
situations when you do a little further digging here let's talk about the um the
case of Robin and David okay the reports are that we know what the reports usually says we know that Robin had sex
shortly before she was killed and when they say shortly who knows exactly what that means okay as far as timeline goes
let's just say that's means within a few hours well I'm I don't even need to speculate because one thing that I found
was we have an investigator now he's going off of memory but he worked that case and going off of memory when asked
about the situation of Robin having had sex beforehand and wondering if that was
with David or could it be possibly that she was raped he said in this interview you know and and take him keep this in
mind this is heay this is him recalling this maybe 25 years after the case after
he investigated but he says due to his recul recollection they were working under the
assumption that Robin was raped and potentially sodomized as well mm so that makes that creates one big giant motive
in that particular case then we have another situation with Anna Maria and Daniel this is the fourth couple correct
and one thing that is often not reported in this situation is Daniel had gotten paid about $800 over the course of that
weekend it's believed that when they took off for that trip back to that apartment that he
had the $800 cash on him this was never recovered from the vehicle or or from his belongings M so we have a potential
that there might have been motive for robbery in this particular case yeah or it's just such an amount that the killer
just I'm here might as well take it now for the differences the most obvious is Theo being different in each case we
have a strangulation a throat cutting this is the Becky and Kathy case first couple a shooting with David and Robin
second couple a suspected stabbing in Anamaria Daniel that's the fourth couple and an unknown disappearance of Keith
and Sandy mhm another go ahead well and I I kind of wondered this because in the second couple Robin she's
only 14 so I wonder if the motive if it was sexual Bas sexually based that the first
couple he he goes okay here's this lesbian couple maybe there was now this possibly could be the first attack so we
have a situation where somebody gets a handful of hair and was that enough you know of a a deterrent to stop the sexual
assault therefore then we're saying that that's not the motive well because they
weren't sexually assaulted but then we have the situation with the second couple with Robin and her being 14 and
being young and you know I'm just going to put that put it out there I know it sounds a little sick but maybe that's
not what maybe this killer sees David and goes 20-year-old ban and then when he gets to the car sees Robin and she's
young and that's not the type of individual not the type of sexual assault that he want he doesn't
want to sexually assault a 14-year-old he does but that's not his type right mhm and then you have the situation with
the third couple you keep on calling her Sandy right right her full name is Cassandra
and her name was Cassandra um with Sandy you have she was a model and she was a gymnast I believe uh she taught
gymnastics yes is it possible that after the second couple he finds this very attractive woman and he
wants to spend more time with her and he brins her somewhere else and that's why
we never found um her or Richard another difference another possible difference is the actual locations and now Captain
you might say this is weird you kind of included a similar thing on both of your
list both sides of your list but I think one could argue it either way while all
the crimes happen within a 60 miles within 60 miles of one another you could argue that it's similar location however
you could make the argument that look two of them two of the cars were found on the parkway one is found on I64 and
the other on ragged Island where they're all within 60 Mi of one another but could be considered much different
locations but 60 Mi is not a huge radius for a killer to stock the [Music] prey this show is spons spored by better
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everybody I'm just excited that I'm not a captain soup NOS well the Colonial Parkway murders fell under different law
enforcement jurisdictions to this day the families of these victims cite the lack of communication and cooperation
among the various departments investigating so this has been seen as a major stumbling block it's it's tough
when it's separate entities investigating this being federal state and local MH the families were so
dissatisfied with the handling of the cases that in in 1989 a few of them banded together along
with families of victims and other unsolved murders in the area to obtain 12,000 signatures to require law
enforcement to re to renew the investigations into the murders on the Parkway and in the Tidewater Virginia
region they formed a group called fact uh family and friends against Crime today this was to push law enforcement
to work together to find out what had happened to their loved ones the members went to the media and wrote
to congressmen and Senators complaining that the police weren't taking seriously
the possibility that all of the crimes were linked the FBI said in 1990 that its agents had spent thousands of hours
trying to solve the two Federal cases that they were working and had met frequently with local law enforcement
agencies to discuss the cases yeah these cases are difficult though too because the these seem like
very random acts four random acts of murder that's why I wanted to take the time and go through the similarities and
the differences between the cases because I think it's it's a weird set of circumstances that in my opinion you
have enough things pointing that they are connected that there are enough similarities that there is a pattern
that they are connected but equally you have enough things pointing out that they could be completely unrelated to
one another yeah and you kind of see this with um Long Island SE killer a lot of people think that some are connected
and some or not and that possibly there's two killers so is that is that a situation that we might have here well
and I don't think we should come down too hard on law enforcement regarding these cases that we've discussed because
one thing that I found throughout this was the the lack of consensus about whether the four crimes were related at
all and this coming from both investigators and the families of these victims as well where do you stand on
the possibility of these being connected oo that that's a complicated answer my friend I I think I I'd like to this is
what I found and usually when I have a hard time coming up with answers on my own I like to just defer to people
closer to the case and what I found in this situation is that you have depending on who you talk to whether it
be law en forcement or family members of the victims you have some people that think that just one case is different
than the other or that you know some of the cases are connected and others are not like for example the David and Robin
case local authorities are what couple two yes okay local authorities are convinced that theair was executed by
someone they know mhm so and then other people think that the three cases in which which involved the heterosexual
couples that they are all linked but Kathy and Becky's the first couple the lesbian couple that their violent
killing seemed more personable so it's not you know that they possibly were targeted and are not linked to the other
cases right because they their claim is that normally when somebody tries to burn the body that's normally a sign
that they knew the individual here's the other thing and this is really interesting and this thought seems to be
shared by families and law enforcement they note that several of the victims should have been nowhere near the place
where they were found okay I think that's important with the exception of the first couple it's believed that the
other three cases that those people would have been nowhere near where they were eventually found so some law
enforcement officials believe that maybe the Parkway and rest stops are just dumping grounds for different killers M
and that there's actually no connection at all the FBI in charge uh an FBI agent
in charge of the case in the late 80s and early 90s his name is Robert Meadows said the problem was that none of them
knew what to look for he stated quote if you think about it which is worse a serial killer or four separate
Killers sorry I said serial she thought I said my whole story went away damn I love that quote too Robert
Meadows said the problem was that none of them was sure what to look for stating quote if you think about it
which is worse a serial killer or four separate Killers running around out there and we don't know who any of them
are right and so this is very similar to um the Texas Killing Fields possibly where it's just a Dumping Ground exactly
the tough thing here though is that you're now dumping not only couples but you're
dumping their vehicle as well and that becomes a a different problem and so in three of the cases you're dumping a
possibly dumping a vehicle which makes it very similar again look if you're just if there's
three random sets of bodies dumped somewhere along this area that makes a little more sense once you throw in the
car scenario that's a lot more time and effort somebody's going to have to get some to pick them up or we would at
least seen some eyewitnesses that said hey the night that these people went missing we saw this guy walking on the
side of the road or whatever it was here's the thought though too is it such a big deal that they're not working
together that the law enforcement agencies aren't working together Here's my thought meaning whether they're
related or not as long as they're being worked if in fact it turns out that it is the work of one serial killer then if
you solve one likely you should solve some of the others or all of them right as long as they're being worked and
worked good yeah and well if we have this hair from the first couple and we think that these cases are connected
this is something that's going to have to be answered pretty quickly because if we do have this DNA as we know with all
these other cases a lot of people are taking these Cold Case Files taking DNA and they're having them tested with
ancestry so we're going to get within a spectrum you know within cousins within aunts and uncles of possibly the murder
of this first couple because we have that DNA evidence now you're going to have to figure out does this individual
have Alibis for those other couples or you going to be able to get him to confess to those if they are connected
well and here's the thing I think the biggest factor that has contributed to the failure to solve any or all of these
crimes is that the crime scenes were compromised evidence has been lost damaged or destroyed you know and we
know in the first case that the park rangers smashed out the back window of Cathy's car we have some other examples
too there are stories coming from family members that say and and and keep in mind we'll keep we'll take this with a
grain of salt because these are hurt loved ones of victims but there are stories that have come from family
members that say that at least one of the vehicles was towed back to the family and given back to the family and it was
never processed and in fact that later when they came to take fingerprints from inside of the truck inside of David's
truck this is days and days later that they took the fingerprints and then later the father finds the fingerprint
cards out in the front lawn right that they didn't they didn't for whatever reason bring them back to the lab or
wherever they were intended to take these things right and these cases have been cold for a while and I don't think
their frustration was from the beginning but I think because the FBI was doing a
lecture and somebody made these these crime scene photos public during this lecture I believe it was 2008 so
everything's kind of resurfaced since then well that was because the FBI had egg on its face and it needed to
to reassure the families that they were going to make good on this and that they
are going to work these their two Federal cases until they're solved yeah and I think they like announced to the
public we reopening them and assigning new people to them but they also throw they threw a
local um park ranger kind of under the bus he's the one that I think exposed them
cuz he was at the lecture I think he okay so the way this goes down is in October of 2008 this is at a law
enforcement training school in Hampton uh the school had an old FBI slideshow of crime scenes from the Colonial
Parkway murders so the school's owner the school's not run by the FBI the school's owner asked this guy named Fred
Atwell who was a former deputy sheriff to speak at a few classes regarding the murders Atwell was very familiar with
the cases so while he's there to speak to the classes Atwell saw that crime scene photos were being used in this
training program so right for how long we don't know but there were 78 images that featured detailed color shots of
the cars glove box open wallets out clothes in the back seats there were also pictures of the victims shot
strangled slashed so Atwell called the FBI to report that the active case photos were being used in a public form
mhm the FBI didn't really respond in the manner that Atwell wanted him to so he contacted a local TV station which then
later publicized the leak okay so an investigation revealed that the FBI um this was an FBI photographer had taken a
duplicate set of slides before retiring in 2001 and he became an instructor at this
Hampton law enforcement school and he was using them for training purposes which yeah you have to use stuff like
this but you would assume that they'd be using cases that are one not of the area
but two cases that are solved well and before we even get to that we have the situation of the Rangers finding the
vehicle and then then the father finding the vehicle later we already discussed that one little egg on the ranger face
but we also we have compromised crime scenes to the point of remember they find the lost vehicle and a jogger later
later finds the bodies or finds the body so what does that mean they didn't rope off the crime
scene enough they allowed a jogger to go jogging through the crime scene MH to find the body and then we have a
situation that took place in 1994 now I do know that we have said said that there were no signs of sexual
assault regarding Kathy and Becky's case the first set of murders but there were
rape kits that were conducted in that investigation for whatever reason instead of them ending up back at the
FBI's office they ended up at the York County Sheriff's Department to which once they it's made known to them hey
your rape kits ended up here the FBI sent a fax to York County ordering them to destroy the rape kits so even if
they're you know even though there's no signs of sexual assault let's say that there was we don't know for certain that
there was or was not M all these years later maybe that could have led to something maybe we could have gained
some evidence from those old rape kits so the first couple is murdered in ' 86 second couple in 87 Third couple 88 then
the last couple or the fourth couple in 89 so everybody thought that's when it stopped but there's another case that
happened in 1996 six that is very similar to the first murders in in ' 86 well and this connection is made from a
man by the name of Steve spingola okay so Steve spingola is a retired detective and he is an
investigative journalist at some point some of the victim's families got together and started asking him for help
and he came to some interesting conclusions he wrote a magazine article titled Predators on the parkway
summarizing his findings in his investigation among these things he revealed that cigarette butts were found
at the first murder scene and that the Rope used in the first murders uh the rope that was found on the victim's neck
tested positive for brine or for seawater he also revealed that they had found a note in Anamaria Phelps
handwriting indicating that she had planned to meet someone in a blue van at the rest stop and this is the fourth
fourth couple correct now probably the most surprising of spinola's conclusions was that he believed that the cases were
likely not all related he did however link Kathy and Becky's the first murder case to a 1996 murder of a lesbian
couple elsewhere in Virginia so as if things weren't complicated enough this was the double murder of Julian Williams
and Laura winens which took place in Virginia's shann andoa National Park in June of 96 do we know how far away this
was it's a 3 to 4H hour drive from the colonial Parkway area Laura was a college student and Julianne had just
graduated with a degree in uh geology they were in a same-sex relationship they were on a camping trip both were
considered to be experienced hikers they were found at their campsite just off of
a Scenic Trail on Skyline Drive bound and gagged with their own clothing naked and their throats were cut the killer
had used duct tape and it is believed that he brought the duct tape with them with him lore's golden retriever Taj was
found unharmed and nearby this case remains unsolved and the the FBI has said publicly that they believe there
are substantial similarities between this case and that of the first murders back in 1986 and you wonder if it's some
kind of anniversary killing so you asked earlier if I thought that they are related if they were connected I think
we approach it in this manner here captain that we do have a lot of investigators that buy into the serial
killer Theory and the ones that have they haven't established a profile of their likely killer and they state that
he would be a Caucasian male he was likely in his 20s or early 30s in the mid to late 80s he is of average or
above average intelligence he has good social skills lived with a partner owned a vehicle and
possibly had begun undergoing some kind of stress that inspired the crimes he probably committed the crimes in his uh
probably committed other crimes in his youth such as setting fires killing animals and so on and the pattern
escalated as he got old he be he's becoming more violent as he gets older they also state that he is very
organized that he brought his weapon along with him he controlled his victims before killing them never mutilated or
molested the bodies concealed the corpses or at least attempted to and waited for long periods of time before
striking again finally this killer exhibited great self-control refraining from taunting law enforcement with
letters or Clues like the Son of Sam or the Zodiac Killer he his killings showed that he
has or was refining his craft and and evolving he got more efficient and less messy with each of these murders it was
even possible that he was deliberately changing up hiso to keep investigators guessing several of the investigators
believe that there is a strong possibility that the killer was actually two people operating as a team now for
the fun part Captain we get to throw some individuals under the bus people that have been considered suspects
throughout the course of these investigations now I do want to keep in mind everybody keep in mind there's been
like 130 to 150 suspects depending on which report you read obviously we're not going to go through all of them but
we will go through some of the more noteworthy ones right so first we have and this is in no particular order all
right just kind of random order first we have Fred Atwell okay as you might recall Fred Atwell was the deputy who
discovered that the FBI's crime scene photos had been released he has a checkered history he had two burglary
convictions and had bounced around from one local law enforcement role to another apparently background checks
weren't a thing when they were hiring these officers in any event Atwell was a deputy at the uh Gloucester County
Sheriff's Department which was apparently known to have employed some questionable characters at the time of
the murders after the crime scene photo photo debacle Atwell inserted himself into the
parkway way cases befriending the families and trying to act as a goete with his supposed law enforcement
connections eventually atwell's true character emerged and he was arrested in 2011 for fraud for stealing money that
he had raised in a phony car raffle on the pretense of contributing the money to the Colonial Parkway victims fund
later that year he was arrested again for robbing a woman at gunpoint Atwell admitted that he had been looked at as a
suspect possible suspect in the crimes but he is vehemently denied any involvement he claims that the FBI
labeled him a suspect as retaliation for his public disclosure of the leaked crime scene photos yeah or the fact that
you're a piece of [ __ ] for trying to raise money for dead people and then you steal the money that's pretty shady I'm
going to kind of look into you after that Fred Atwell well you can feel safe and feel good somewhat to know that Fred
Atwell remains he remains in prison for the fraud charges and the robbery convictions he is scheduled to be
released in 2020 then we have Ronald little but hold on the problem with Fred is the fact
that he would have they would had they would have collected his DNA and I think if the FBI really thought Fred wasn't a
suspect they would be testing the DNA they found on the hair in the first murders
Ronald little was a 32-year-old convicted felon from New Zealand who somehow managed to hide his criminal
record and gain entry into the United States he ended up in the Newport News area and worked as a private
investigator he had owned and operated a security company that provided security
for local businesses he had permits to carry guns Liberty security employed law enforcement officers and as security
guards so Liberty security is his company all right and they're employing Law Enforcement Officers as some of
their security guards this is not an uncommon practice this included a Fred Atwell for one furthermore Liberty has
some strange connections to the parkway cases and that being Rob Robin edwards's
mother Bonnie she was part of the second murder case right she worked at Liberty
security one point and I believe she worked there at the time of the murders Terry Haley this is Sand's sister dated
a man named Steve Blackman who worked at Liberty security we will talk more about
Steve in a little bit but in 1988 Ron little sent out letters to congressmen and local politicians and the media
saying that he had been he was being railroaded by the FBI for the parkway cases specifically he stated that he was
being targeted as a suspect in the killings of Robin Edwards and David nobling he also said that the FBI had
looked at him for the Keith and Sandy disappearance now the weird thing about this is he's sending out all these
letters according to law enforcement and according to the FBI they never had looked at this guy H they didn't know
what he was talking about maybe he wanted to be looked at take a peek well take a peek behind the curtain he the
officials did that he was a suspect in any of the crimes but little was taken into custody in May of
1989 um so he or you also wonder wait okay hold on before you get to the next one you also wonder was somebody just
messing with him like calling him oh yeah like this is FBI where were you you son of a [ __ ] well that's interesting
that you bring that up I never thought about that but knowing what I know about this individual it's likely that he had
enemies mhm you know somebody might want have wanted to have messed with him we do
have to keep in mind though he was eventually arrested and this was in May of 1989 so he could not be responsible
for uh Anna Maria and and Daniel's killing okay he he was not out walking around by the time the fourth case went
down again I assume that if the FBI thinks that you're a suspect in this case they're testing your
DNA yeah it well this thing came about I don't know if his DNA ever would have been tested MH because he wasn't
arrested in the traditional sense remember he was from New Zealand and he checked in and got into the United
States by lying that he did not have a criminal background Che mates right so they figure out that he's actually a
criminal who got into our country so they deported him so they shipped him back so to speak and then the killing
stopped okay I said that we would talk about Steve Blackman Steve Blackman is a disgraced ex police officer okay who
kept getting into trouble and moved around from Branch to branch of various local law enforcement entities in this
area of Virginia including the Newport News PD where he was uh held a position for nine years I know so many dis
disgraced Bankers that have been transferred from one branch to another Branch well he was also later employed
by the Gloucester County Sheriff's Department mhm and according to sources who have knowledge of the situation u i
i I found this quote very interesting okay M they say Blackman was a bad guy involved in drugs underage girls and
general thuggery thuggery yeah Blackman moonlighted as a security guard for Liberty security remember they have some
ties to a couple of these murders right right and his buddy was Ron little he also dated Terry Haley this was one of
the victim's sisters mhm okay reports are also out there that his his family owned property along the James River
near the parkway meaning he was familiar with the area and had access to a home base near two of the killings yeah maybe
we should search his property Blackman moved away from the area in 1989 and the parkway killings had stopped mhm he
ended up getting hired as a sheriff's deputy in Florence County South Carolina in 1990 this is where he he shot two men
and killed them who broke into uh some Reports say his home some Reports say his father's home what year was that
1990 um he shot them 11 times now he was fired after the incident because they figured out that cocaine was found in
his system during the course of these shootings hell of a drug he was indicted for double murder and underwent a psych
atric uh evaluation he did serve some time I don't have that right in front of me I believe that he only served a few
years because it's possible they were able to prove that these individuals actually broke into the home um from
what I could find I was think about this so you're you're at home right mhm you're high as a kite right minding your
own damn business mhm two son sons of [ __ ] break into your house you shoot them they test you for drugs then they
send you to jail like hey I'm protecting myself and I'm protected my home it doesn't matter
if I'm drunk or not officer I think this is one of those guys that had a always had a suspicion of him that he was using
his badge and using his power to help get him drugs and girls and some of them might have been underage and he was
involved in trading guns stealing guns dealing with bribery all kinds of stuff MH and I think when this goes down this
is something legit that they could probably nail him on and let's okay let's get him let's fire him and let's
get him behind bars even if it is for a short period of time I tried to locate where this guy was now I'm sure somebody
better than me could do it like I said I think he only served a few years and I believe that he would be out of prison
now well and he would have been out of prison in time to if 1996 murder is connected to these he would have been
out in time to commit those as well well here's yes and here's the thought too I
think surrounding Steve Blackman and also possibly Ronald little they were very close and I think the thought is
that there is suspicion surrounding both of them I think the thought here is that
these two may have committed these crimes together and that even though Ronald little was locked up was deported
in 1989 before the 89 uh killings that potentially the two of them could could have committed the earlier ones together
and then maybe Steve Blackman committed the last one without the help of Ronald little Clyde Y is an interesting
character he was a ranger patrolling the Colonial Parkway during the time of the
murders Parkway victims family sources have learned that ye had violent tendencies and had sexually harassed
women by pulling them over on the parkway a number of women had filed complaints against him for harassment
involving inappropriate comments what makes ye interesting is that he was transferred out of the parkway area to
the shann andoa National Park where he was stationed in 1996 this is for the 96 killings so after that he was
transferred out again uh and he was involved in a very controversial case where he manufactured evidence and acted
an appropriately in an investigation of Indian trade trading post maintained by the National Park Service Ye Ye
reportedly passed a polygraph about whether he had any involvement in the parkway murders but he has never been
ruled out as a possible suspect he's weird because I've seen reports that say he's been ruled out because of this
polygraph mhm the thing I want to point out here is there are a lot of stories that include Clyde ye as being one of
the First Responders to the first murder scene and remember where we said it it's
unclear which Ranger broke the window on the hatchback to gain access to the vehicle there are some people that think
that Clyde ye was that individual right and that maybe it is on the surface it looks like hey I'm trying to help the
situation but boom I'm also contaminating the crime scene at the same time for something that I may have
been involved in right so he's weird because you can place him in the area of the
parkway at the time of the two Parkway murders and then you could place him as working in the area of the shannona
murders that took place in 96 so and he's a Caucasian he yes and he is um furthermore a ranger you know he would
have that ability ability to pull people over to approach cars he would have a he
would have a gun on him so right but again if you're moving these vehicles why not just take the time to shut the
glove box uhuh why not roll up the window why not take the time to do that right right I see what you're saying he
would only technically be connected to three of these potentially five double homicides in my opinion then we have
another interesting Guy this is Daryl David rice Daryl strawberry he's a former computer programmer who pled
guilty in 1998 to an abduction charge in which he was accused of verbally and physically assaulting a female bicyclist
in the shann andoa National Park M she avoided being forced into his truck she states he was going to try to kill me uh
when she fle him he tries to run her over with his truck investigators later discovered hand and leg rints inside
Rice's vehicle he was sentenced to 136 months in prison on that conviction while in prison he made comments that
could be seen as implicating himself in the 1996 double murder of Julianne and Laura in the National Park he was known
to frequent the park as a biker and hiker and in fact this is interesting about David darl David Rice okay he may
be guilty of one of these crimes and here's why because there was videotape there was videotape evidence of him
having entered the park on the days that the murders were committed in 1996 MH a
grand jury indicted him for those murders but he was eventually freed because unknown male DNA on hairs found
on the duct tape binding the victims did not match Rice's DNA oh so now if we have this hair can we
please test it against the the first crime scene from 10 years prior well and here's the thing that I want to be clear
on on this 1996 double homicide in my opinion this this evidence this hair found on the duct tape does not exclude
him it just it just causes it causes problems with getting him convicted so he does remain remain a strong suspect
in that case rice was cleared for the Colonial Parkway murders although investigators would not disclose why or
how he was ruled out but they may have his DNA like you said and if they have DNA from one or more of the crime scenes
maybe this is how they were able to rule him out all right one more suspect Michael Nicola so he's a strong suspect
he lived in Charlottesville Virginia around the time of the crimes where he was an
undercover officer mhm this is for the Charlottesville PD for for a period of time Nicola is the main suspect in the
Connecticut River Valley killings as well and suspected in The Disappearance of his first wife he killed himself in
Florida after having murdered his second wife and his stepdaughter there's not a lot of
information tying this guy to these actual cases other than the fact that he's a known murderer that lived in the
area at the time and he's also suspected in another string of murders that took place not too far away so how many
suspects do we have in this thing different reports the the reports vary but I've seen as little as 130 to as
many as 150 so just meaning that there's freaks everywhere so lock your doors be
safe don't get murdered couple of theories though here Captain we've talked about you know kind of been all
over the shop with the theories throughout the coverage of these cases but one that I want to mention is is
there is one so-called theory that I find extremely interesting and this is the watermen theory this theory
developed largely because of one the locations of the murders were all near waterways and two the diesel fuel that
was found at the first murder scene diesel fuel not being super common so some experts have been led to believe
that the diesel fuel which is used primarily to used in a lot of cases to power boats was something that the
killer had happened to have with him when he committed that first set of murders and traveling by boat would also
explain how the killer would manage to escape without being seen on walking on the on the parkway or risk leaving his
car somewhere else while he killed his victims and then returned to it this too could mean that it were it was two men
working together traveling by boat to and from these different crime scenes and one thing to back that up is in the
first set of murders they were strongly looking at this Waterman Theory and we know that law enforcement and FBI they
surveyed Waterman in the area they were looking for what they said were two men fitting what they thought they were
looking for okay one thing that they found at the first crime scene was they state that nautical line was found in
the hair of one of the victims right one of the victims was in the Navy right well she didn't she had been discharged
from the Navy at that point she was a stock broker so there's a couple of other theories and this kind of revolves
around the the time frame of these murders okay and when these the times of when these crimes took place and the
thought being that it could be a federal employee because we have murders that took place two on the weekend and two
right before or just after a long holiday weekend somebody that would have been working in the area and would not
have had to had their time accounted for during the course of those four murders
for you to believe this Theory then you have to believe that the 96 double homicide in the park was not related or
linked to the first four double homicide cases and why do you have to believe that well I guess that you don't have to
believe it um I'm just going going off of the theory here is that it was a federal employee based off of the the
dates the likely dates of when these first four homicides double homicides were committed right and that the one
the one in '96 mhm we don't know exactly what day they were killed on th this camping trip was quite extensive one uh
and and two like I said I guess you don't have to say that they weren't involved in the
96 where this Theory originates based off of the first four double homicides still basing the idea of this theory
around the murders having taken place on a weekend or just before or just after a
weekend there's some thought in a theory out there that this the perpetrator may
have been a William and Mary College student because all of these dates line up with the College calendar the William
and Mary College calendar meaning the person wouldn't have been in class or wouldn't have had class uh the following
day the other thing too that's interesting about that is the first four murders take place within a 4-year time
span which would be you know considered by many to be the average the average stay of an out of
town college student so the thought here being that a college student moves into
the area for whatever reason kills during the course of their time at William and Mary and then after the
final killing graduates and moves away and either starts killing in another city at some point or it was a pair of
college students that once their time away you know was done with one another that they stopped killing all together
so what's your final thoughts on the Colonial Parkway murders super fascinating case this is one that has
always intrigued me and I I've I look at it a little different each time uh as to
whether they're connected or not I think the problem here is that they're not connected MH I actually think that that
might be more of the issue and I think that they're I don't want to say they're they're all separate cases I think
there's a chance that one or two or three of them might be somehow linked mhm but I think that there are cases in
here that are different and the ones that that look different to me the second double homicide where we have the
Poss POS motive of rape of the female victim MH I think that that presents a whole new variable that we don't weapon
as well yeah that we didn't see in the other crimes I think that the local police Theory there might be somewhat
correct and their thought is that somebody they knew got them out of the the vehicle and shot them meaning they
might have been there to meet somebody and we have David's father who has said time and time again look this ragged
Island this was a place known for uh teenagers to hang out and do drugs to purchase drugs there is some thought
that maybe the two of them hey I pick up this girl that I barely know let's go out to this island let's party let's
have a really good time right and the thought here is that maybe they made a phone call to somebody to purchase some
drugs hey meet me out on ragged Island and for whatever reason that thing turned wrong that and there's one
individual in particular and the police haven't really released a lot of information on this individual
because this is speculation but there is a guy that they refer to as drug dealer
and rapist Washington okay they think that he is a possible very strong suspect in that
second double homicide he somehow knew the female victim and there was rumor that he had
told somebody that he wanted to that he wanted to rape her and he might wanted to rape and kill her there was a witness
that led law enforcement to this guy that we only know as quote drug dealer and rapist
Washington but the local police theory is that this Washington guy shows up on ragged Island to sell them drugs and
when he's there he decides he's going to rape the victim and it turns into a situation where he has to shoot the
female victim and the male victim execution stop okay so it's interesting that there is a
strong suspect there now the witness that led local police to this guy conveniently for this Washington guy
this eyewitness is no longer around he's dead and then we have a situation where with the fourth homicide the
fourth double homicide there was a suspect in this case and his name is Joseph Gody Joseph Gody knew the male
victim and may have known the female victim but it's believed that Gody knew that the male victim would have $800
cash on him at that time and that godi had somehow either intercepted these two individuals that were traveling or had
met up with them at the rest stop took them out into the woods and killed them there and then dumped the car near the
rest stop so I think we have a situation here where a couple of these cases might
not in fact be linked and I think that that the the argument and the squabble of them having been linked or not being
linked back and forth back and forth I think that that has been a major stumbling block in in in these cases
yeah and I think the interesting thing in all these cases that that the reason why people link them so much and it's
hard to not want to link them is cuz it always seems like it's like a traffic stop M their cars are always left in
some disarray of a traffic stop yeah and I think with this one maybe if one of these are solved soon I wouldn't be
surprised don't don't jump to the conclusion that if one case out of this series is solved soon that the rest are
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The Colonial Parkway Murders /// Part 2 /// 227

Part 2 of 2

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The Colonial National Historic Parkway, Virginia - From 1986 to 1989, four young couples died at the hands of what the FBI long ago concluded was most likely a serial killer or killers. For years investigators actively and exhaustively worked the case, compiling a list of 150 possible suspects. But no one was ever arrested. This week we discuss the details of these unsolved cases and examine if the cases are in fact linked. Beer of the Week - Good Life by Billsburg BreweryGarage Grade - 4 bottle caps

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Colonial Parkway murders, focusing on Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Low's disappearance and the investigation's challenges.

Key points

The Disappearance of Anna Maria Phelps. Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel were last seen driving to Virginia Beach, but never arrived.
Mysterious Vehicle Discovery. A trooper finds Daniel's car in a rest stop, raising suspicions about their disappearance.
Bodies Found After 45 Days. The skeletal remains of Anna Maria and Daniel are discovered weeks after their disappearance.
Investigation Links Cases. Authorities suspect a serial killer may be behind multiple disappearances in the area.
Families Fight for Justice. Victims' families band together to push for renewed investigations into the murders.
The Complexity of the Cases. Investigators debate whether the murders are linked or the work of different killers.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's crazy how these things come full circle.

2:55WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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