The Colonial Parkway Murders /// Part 1 /// 226 | Forensic Files

when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details dreaming of
overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've
tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology are game changers dive into
25 Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime
membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to rosettastone.com now and save 50%
[Music] [Applause] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that much like myself knows that garages and beers
well these are some of the Finer Things in life he is the captain well of course
you add a little beer you add a little lubben hey now it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for
listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend tonight we are drinking good life by billsburg Brewery garage grade a big
four bottle caps this is an IPA good life is Juicy hoppy and tropical slightly bitter like with an ABV of
7.3% and today's fine selection was brought to us by first up we have a longdistance cheers to Lilia in Auckland
New Zealand and a big shout out to dette in chilik cafee or also known as chil Cafe next up we have Mona in St Paul
Minnesota who says cheers to taco Tuesdays and from this Romeo we have a cheers to Juliet and Tula schula and
California next up cheers are our boy hot dog all the way over in central Hong Kong and last but not least a shout out
to one of our many trucker friends Steve out of Springfield Ohio and a big we like your jib to all the truckers and
all of you out there can stock the shelves for next week's show by going to True Crim garage.com and just click on
that donate button if you'd like to get your be good be kind t-shirt or if you would like to become a part of the
horsee gang go to True Crime garage.com and pre-order your shirt today and that's enough for the business all right
thank you Captain everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
crime [Music] our story has a beautiful start to it because of the setting this week's case
takes place in historic Virginia on a Scenic Parkway an area treasured by all Americans for its Colonial history and
natural beauty this is a gorgeous 23m stretch of road that belongs to the National Park
Service a desirable Drive linking the three points of Virginia's historic triangle Jamestown Williamsburg and
Yorktown a roadway shielded from commercial development that does not allow semi-rs it is
toll-free and has speed limits of just 35 to 45 mph it is also popular with tourists due
to the James River and York River ends of the parkway an area that many have and will go out of their way to see and
travel but then starting in 1986 there was great cause to avoid this area especially after
dark because during the course of four years not one not two not even three but four brutal and senseless double murders
of young couples terrorized the Colonial Parkway region and then one day just as suddenly as it
all had began the killings stopped now 30 years later the investigation into Virginia's oldest
serial murder case continues and the murderer remains at large this is the case of the Colonial
Parkway [Applause] [Music] murders [Applause] [Music] Captain I've received a lot of great
emails over the past few weeks sending us High Praise for some of our cases that we've covered lately several people
saying that early 90s mid90s cold cases is the bread and butter of True Crime garage and I appreciate beer and butter
everyone saying that our case today one that I'm very excited to cover this is a
case that has always fascinated and intrigued me takes place in the mid to late 80s so we will see if we can
receive such high praise for this coverage of this case of what I would call a cold case and there's some debate
onto how cold this case and these cases actually are and we'll certainly get into that before we're through but
there's what's great about this case there's been a lot of renewed interest in this case and I think it's because of
the 30-year anniversary mhm we have four double homicides the first that took place in 1986 the second in ' 87 then 88
and '89 and so what we've seen the last few years is a renewed interest in each one of these cases and the Colonial
Parkway murders as a whole and we will continue to see that this year and next year as well now before we get into
these cases that make up the Colonial Parkway murders we need to get a little background on the parkway itself
understanding the environment of the Colonial Parkway is crucial to the cases we are going to discuss construction
began on the Colonial Parkway in 1930 and it was completed in portions and would be a project that would take over
25 years the parkway was designed to follow the York and James Rivers which feed into the Atlantic Ocean on April
27th 1957 the Colonial Parkway opened for traffic along the entire route between Yorktown and Jamestown the
Scenic 23m Parkway connects three of the most historic spots in our great country
Yorktown on the York River where George Washington beat the Red Coats also Williamsburg which is Virginia's
Colonial capital and Jamestown on the James River where the English settlers first founded colonies way back in 1607
it is part of the national park services Colonial National Historic Park which is
a 10,000 acre Federal Park the parkway is windy and curvy with low overpasses no commercial vehicles or structures are
on the parkway it is a three lane road the center lane is for passing only the tree shaded passage is punctuated with
Scenic pull-offs and picnic areas and both tourists and locals enjoy these recreational areas during the day to
read picnic exercise or just enjoy the Virginia's historic culture deer and other Wildlife are often visible on the
Parkways fringes but at night we have overhanging trees that cover the road and this makes it extremely dark out
there as it was described in one article there are no street lights no call boxes
no fast food restaurants or convenience stores where a driver might find refuge in case of a breakdown so once it's dark
the poffs along the parkway attract a different crowd kids go there to party lovers meet for a nighttime trist or who
knows what else goes on there after dark a lot of sucking in the 1980s these areas had a reputation among authorities
as being sites for hookups illegal drugs and underage drinking at any given time
in the park two Patrol Rangers are on duty the Rangers Drive the parkway until midnight most nights and other nights
all night long how many Park Rangers two okay at night time it's patrolled by two
cuz there this is a pretty big Park well it's a 23 Mile stretch of road mhm and the other thing here though there's not
a lot of access points to get on or off of this 23 Mile Stretch MH and what my thought is here is that you probably
have you have two guys patrolling it throughout the night but you probably have a dispatcher that's on on call as
well or or or Manning the phones let's say right who if there were a call could then dispatch a ranger to your location
now keep in mind though there's no call boxes and this is the 1980s we're not we're not calling people on cell phones
if we break down yeah unless you're Doc Brown or Marty McFly well technically the park itself closes at Sunset but the
parkway obviously stays open to traffic overnight some of the picnic areas are closed in the winter months and some
poffs have a 20-minute parking limit between between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 10: p.m. but are actually closed
after 10: p.m. so you're not supposed to be on those things after dark the parkway falls under the Rangers
jurisdiction because it is federal land owned by the N National Park Service so when a serious crime is committed the
York County Sheriff's Department is called in with police from neighboring locals assisting but the FBI may also
become involved in investigations the most common offenses in the the park are violations of driving and liquor laws as
one would expect to give you a better idea the combined 1988 and 1989 statistics show that there were just
over 2400 traffic offenses 39 drunken driving charges 92 vehicle accidents where there was damage
to Vehicles 11 with personal injuries one fatality and five hit and runs there were also two alcohol related accidents
during the course of those two years one additional aspect of the parkway that is
intriguing surrounding it are the the cheum annex Naval base and we also have the Yorktown Naval weapons station also
nearby is Camp Perry which is a compound owned by the defense department where the CIA operates secret training
missions now let's get to 1986 Captain so back in 1986 Rebecca andori is 21 years old she's from pipy New York and a
senior at William and Mary a prestigious liberal arts college located in Williamsburg Virginia yeah she
transferred there from another school after two years and was majoring in business management she went by the
nickname of Becky and was the youngest of five she was very athletic excelling at softball among other sports and had
studied abroad in High School Kathleen Thomas aged 27 was from L master Massachusetts well Kathy as she was
known had attended the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis she was actually one of the first women to
graduate from the academy in fact Kathy her brother and father were the first father daughter son family to graduate
from Annapolis that's cool yeah Kathy followed in the footsteps of her father who was a career naval officer her
family describes her as a Trailblazer obviously she's one of the first women to graduate from from the Naval Academy
uh but they describe her as loving life and excelled at whatever she wanted to do after graduation Kathy had served 5
years in the Navy as a protocol officer at Atlantic Fleet headquarters in Norfolk Virginia she had been discharged
from the Navy earlier 1986 and was now working as a stock broker at broker Securities Incorporated this is in
Virginia Beach she was athletic and trained in martial arts Thursday night October 9th 1986 was the start of the
5-day Columbus Day holiday weekend for the College of William and Mary and Kathy was at the college visiting Becky
as she did each Thursday evening what was not known to everyone at the school was that Kathy and Becky were in a
romantic relationship and had been dating for about 6 months this was Virginia in the 80s and a lesbian couple
this is not generally cons considered socially acceptable at this time Becky was Kathy's second steady girlfriend and
the two actually had been introduced by Kathy's ex now yeah but I think they were dating at the time what's that I
think they were dating at the time and and that's how they met okay most of Kathy's family knew about her sexuality
and her relationship with Becky in fact Kathy's brothers and parents were expecting to meet Becky for the first
time over Thanksgiving Becky family however did not know that she was a lesbian Becky was scheduled to return
home to pipy for the holiday break her car was packed up and ready to go she had told her parents that she planned to
stop and visit friends on the way home to New York so she might not arrive until Sunday now Kathy was visiting
Becky at the college on that Thursday night October 9th her apartment was an hour's Drive Away Becky and Kathy were
seen in the computer computer lab at William and Mary they left the lab around 9:00 p.m. and left the campus at
this time as well driving Cathy's car because the two were pretty much forced because of the times to keep their
relationship on the down low they often would take a drive you know they would go off campus find somewhere that they
could be alone now friends of theirs said that they would on occasion find a secluded spot along the Colonial Parkway
on Saturday October 11th Becky's friends whom she had intended to visit on Friday
and Saturday became alarmed when she never arrived and so they called the police and Virginia Maryland and
Pennsylvania but nothing came of these calls so these calls they're not really calling to report her as missing but
more so of an inquiry you know more of a where is she call than we know she is missing call we don't know whether
anyone at Kathy's job reported that she did not show up for work work on that Friday what we do know is that neither
woman was reported missing then on Sunday October 12th 1986 around 5:30 p.m. a jogger was running on the banks
of the York River along the Colonial Parkway near Yorktown this part of the parkway is on
the grounds of the United States Naval Supply Center it's just 10 miles east of the William and Mary campus this is
federal property right this jogger spotted Cathy's 1980 White Honda Civic in the bushes the car was found perched
at a 45° angle front end down in the Bramble covered embankment between a pulloff spot and the York River about 35
ft from the roadway the Honda wasn't visible from the road but the jogger was running on the river embankment and
could see areas where passing cars could not the jogger assuming uming that the Honda had been in an accident alerted
the park rangers who patrolled the parkway Rescuers arrived and broke the rear hatchback window of the car to gain
access to the two people that they could see inside the car hoping that they were
still alive so we have Rangers showing up to the scene they find this car in the bushes nose down
practically one of the Rangers for some reason believes that these individuals could still be alive it's not reported
which Ranger decided to break the hatchback window right it's a little bit unclear and that might be important
later and we'll get into that but that will be of some significance regardless the responders worked extremely hard to
get into that car sadly what they found inside was gruesome not only were the two passengers inside dead but they
could tell immediately that they were looking at a double homicide Park Rangers called the local field office of
the FBI and waited for the feds to arrive a short time later the FBI investigators climbed down the
embankment to the car once they saw the scene inside they photographed the car's
location and positioning and then they had a record tow the car back up to to the pulloff area near the road there was
some debate whether they should do this because it's going to disturb their crime scene but the thought was that
they thought by this point it had been Disturbed enough and that they weren't going to be able to examine the car in
the manner that they wanted to so they had to kind of roll the dice and say yep let's have the tow truck pull this thing
up and out of the bushes so we can look at it take a good look at it so what evidence was found by the FBI well they
found Cathy's body crumbled in the hatchback section of the car Becky's body was in the back seat with her legs
diagonally pointing to the front seats with one foot wedge between the door and the front seat both women were fully
clothed and there was no immediate sign of any sexual assault investigators looked for driver's licenses to try to
identify the victims right both Becky and Cathy's purses were found under the seats but Cathy's wallet was on the
floor and out of her purse both women's wallets contained money a ring was still
on Cathy's finger and investigators noted that it did not look like they had been robbed the bodies were taken to the
State medical examiner's office the car was a mess with broken glass from the shattered back window there were leaves
and there were there were blood inside the vehicle but a strange thing there was not enough blood according to
investigators there should have been more meaning it didn't look like the women had been killed inside the car
right they' had been killed elsewhere and then placed inside the car well because the you know their throats were
slit yes the the FBI shipped the Honda to the FBI lab in Washington where it was examined using the latest technology
at the time according to Bill Thomas this is Kathy's brother who has become a victim's advocate in this case and in my
opinion a 100% expert in this case he says the Honda's driver side window was found in the rolled down
position um I guess approximately 150 partial fingerprints were found inside the car unfortunately though
the breaking of the hatchback's rear window by Rescuers destroyed any fingerprints the killer or Killers could
have left when closing the hatch on Cathy's you know after placing Cathy's body in that section of the car so the
driver side windows completely rolled down according to the brother according to her brother there are other reports
that that state that the window was up and and her ID is the one that's found outside of her purse uh that's a good
question Captain I have in my notes that her her wallet was found on the floor outside of her purse I do not know the
the specifics regarding her ID okay so what it seems to me is that they pull over off the parkway into a spot that
we're going to call a Lover's Lane right yeah and they're going to do a little Hanky Panky yeah and at some
point what it seems like is that somebody approached them uh doesn't look like there's any like wreckage to the
vehicle they weren't hit doesn't look like anybody hit the car so it seems very that whoever approached them was
friendly at the time of the approachment yeah that makes any sense and then at some point the driver's side window gets
rolled down maybe it was rolled down before the person approached them maybe it wasn't but now we have these two it's
almost like they got out there in information to show somebody mhm like a police officer or um park ranger or
somebody pretending to be a uh law enforcement well and that has always been one of the huge questions regarding
this double homicide were the two ladies parked and then approached by a vehicle
or were they followed to that location yeah were they pulled over yeah well the autopsy reports estimate that Becky and
Kathy had likely been killed sometime between 9:30 p.m. on October 9th and midnight on October 10th so MH that's
that's a big window and I think the other thing here that that makes this tricky is the large window of the time
that they were last known to have been seen on the William and Mary campus to when their bodies are found on that
Sunday I mean we're talking days later so there is some question as to where was the actual last sighting of these
two individuals and one being that there was a a sighting of two women at the York Pub this is an area that would be
near you know they would have went past the York Pub to have gone from William and Mary to where they were eventually
found the York Pub would be a place that it was more of a restaurant than a bar but people would go there to get
something to eat maybe have a beer or two while they're there there was thought that the last meal that they ate
contained hamburger um and that would go along with having been at the York Pub however of those of
those sightings those are kind of unconfirmed sightings of the two ladies so if we go by the coiners estimation of
as early as 9:30 p.m. keep in mind this area that they were found is about 10 miles away from the campus that they
left around 9:00 you know so this could have been a very short time period And as you
mentioned they could could have been pulled over by somebody that was following them or they parked there to
talk or whatever for a while and somebody approaches the vehicle and there is a possibility a small
possibility that they went out there to meet somebody we have no evidence of that but there that is a possibility
some more evidence Captain the medical examiner found that Kathy and Becky's hands had been bound and they had both
been strangled with nylon rope their hands had been untied at some point and the Rope had been taken Away by the
killer since it was not F found at the scene later but rope Burns had been left on the victim's wrist and necks and
later investigators would find a 3-in piece of rope that was embedded in the back of Kathy's neck although both women
were strangled their throats had been slit as well beyond the ear to ear Cathy so severely that when her body
was removed from the car Law Enforcement Officers could see down her windpipe she
was nearly decapitated now the webbed area between Kathy's right hand at the the thumb and pointer finger area was
ripped and there was also bruising to this hand as if she had put up a bit of a struggle or had been clawing at the
Rope around her neck she had a clump of hair in her hand but otherwise the women
showed few defensive wounds which both families you know we gave a a fair description of both of these
ladies um both being tough one having completed the Navy Academy right both being athletic both families found it
extremely strange that the two didn't put up a bigger fight right which makes you wonder did they meet somebody out
there that they knew or did the person that approached him if it was you know law enforcement or somebody pretending
to be in law enforcement it'd be a lot easier for this killer to control his victims
[Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely
online designed to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to
get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot
this season with betterhelp visit betterhelp.com garag toay to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp
hp.com garage Rosetta Stone is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been
using their rap to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words but actually having real conversations and
it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their
lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check
out rosettastone.com it's a GameChanger at Consumer Cellular you get the same exact coverage as the largest
carriers but for up to half the cost same thing up to half the cost up to half the cost for the same thing 50% the
money for 100% the same thing I hope I'm making myself clear Consumer Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer
call us at 1888 Freedom half the cost savings based on cost of consumer cellular single line 5 gig data plan
with unlimited talk and text compared to lowest cost single line postpaid unlimited talk text and data plan
offered by T-Mobile in Verizon May 202 3 all right we're back Cheers Cheers captain and I apologize for going
through the brutality of this crime but there's no way around it there there are
things and I believe Clues within what had happened to these ladies and what was done by the perpetrator or
perpetrators at this crime scene yeah this is not a podcast about soccer right so we have we have some issues here
Captain because like I said the investigators were shocked at the brutality of this crime they say that it
was a classic example of Overkill maybe suggesting that it was somebody that knew them and had hatred for one at
least one of these victims MH um but both women were tied up and this is a tricky thing because this might indicate
the possibility of two perpetrators and the families of both of these women have
always wondered this because they had wondered why would the other sit there and wait as the single perpetrator tied
up The Other Woman move and do something and I'm going to Slit her throat right I
get it I get it you're not moving get if you love that person you're not moving I
no I get that but there's there's a likelihood that both hands on the perpetrator would be busy at some point
and the thought the the that the families keep shouting out is how tough these two individuals were and their
belief that they would fight now Kathy's car and the women's bodies they had been
doused in diesel fuel now some earli reports state that it was kerosene and and this was very tricky to try to
decipher most report State diesel fuel some report kerosene I even heard an interview with one of the investigators
that investigated this crime and he kind of flip-flops back and forth during the
course of this interview and he even mentions diesel fuel but he also mentions kerosene so I was hoping to get
some clarification from him regarding this and I don't think we have that like I said most reports State diesel fuel so
we will roll with that apparently the perpetrator the killer or Killers had attempted to light the car on fire
several matches were found at the top of the embankment the car had been put into
neutral and pushed down the hill toward the river where it became lodged in the bushes diesel fuel apparently does not
ignite you know it burns hotter than gasoline does but it has a much higher ignition point than gasoline does so
whoever tried to light this car on fire either didn't know that or at the very least they were
unsuccessful they're out there out in the woods using matches trying to light this vehicle on fire so the
investigators found it very puzzling that the murderer had access to diesel fuel meaning that he must have brought
it to the scene with him because diesel fuel is not extremely common it's not something
that you know regular motorist drive around within the trunk of their vehicle or in the bed of their truck so just saw
him following this correctly he he takes these two individuals out of the car ties them up strangles them with the
Rope mhm maybe they're dead maybe they're not dead maybe the maybe the suspect doesn't
know if they are so then Cuts their throat puts them back in the car that's why there would be less blood in the car
because they were killed outside of the vehicle correct put back into the car and then DST diesel fuel it doesn't
light because it doesn't it has a higher lighting ignition point M pushes the car
down so almost like the the fire I couldn't get it to you know the evidence would be burned away fingerprints all
that stuff would be burned away but now that it's not going to be burned away I'm going to push the car closer to the
water well and thank you for saying that because the thing here is one thing I always wondered about this case so
before I get into into this whole thing here just to touch upon something the yes the detective surmised that the
actual murders happened outside of the car for several reasons one there should have been more blood inside of the car
and two a Honda Civic hatchback is a very small car so it would have been very difficult for these murders to take
place inside of that small confined space so moving on to the burning of the vehicle and then trying to push it down
into the river you know years ago when I looked into this case IID always questioned
their findings of the statement that the car was put into into neutral lit on fire and then pushed down the embankment
I always thought that maybe there was a chance that the vehicle was pushed down the embankment and when it got caught in
the bushes the killer then goes oh crap my attempt at concealing this vehicle by
pushing it down into the river didn't work out so now I'm going to burn it because the burning of the vehicle seems
strange to me we described how dark this place would have been and we do know that it is being p ped but it's not
heavily patrolled right right doesn't a fire just like call screaming attention to your crime scene to the the murders
that actually the victims having sat there and the car having sat there for the possibility of two or three days well it
might cause attention oh it's going to cause a lot of attention at night right not so much attention during the day the
thing here is after having studied this further I think that they were right and
not necessarily just because the matches the matches that were attempted to have
been used were found up by the roadway I think they're right because one thing I didn't know before was that
the interior of the car as well as the bodies of the two victims had been DED in the same fuel in that diesel fuel and
what I mean by that is we saw how much the Rangers struggled to get into the vehicle after it was lodged in the
bushes the killer would have had the same problem and therefore it would have been
extremely difficult for him to douse the female victims as well as the interior of the vehicle with this diesel fuel
after having become lodged in the bushes so I think the detectives are spoton with their speculation of yes these
murders occurred outside of the vehicle the victims were then placed inside the vehicle the vehicle set on fire and then
the attempt of pushing it down the embankment well it's weird too because it seems like the manner in which they
were killed and then the manner in which somebody tried to cover this sub it seems very amateurish it does and it's
weird in a way that like you had mentioned if if you're tying up two people and you're a lone perpetrator and
your way of controlling the victims and keeping them together is by threatening the lives of one of them well then that
means you have some means of threatening them we know that a knife was brought to
the scene because the throats were slit right and one could guess maybe uh a gun
was used because as you had mentioned maybe they thought a person of authority was approaching their vehicle
that night or had pulled them over this being a park ranger or a police officer but as any investigator will
explain once we're face to face if I have a gun and you don't I'm somebody of authority whether I have a badge or not
mhm and so if in fact this killer we know the out the knife at some point they they have diesel fuel there they
have rope there with them and possibly a gun as well I mean how many weapons this
seems like a somebody goes out in the middle of the night and brings everything they can think of to bring
with them to make sure hey I'm going to kill somebody tonight and there's nothing that's going to stop me yeah
it's like a Fisher Price my first murder kit well the murders were so vicious that at the time the investigators they
had to assume that it was personal so they started looking into every everyone in Kathy and Becky's lives talking to
their friends and families and and pursuing multiple leads oh and yeah and ex relationships well initially the
entire 50 agent Norfolk FBI office worked this case and park rangers even stopped drivers on the Parkway and asked
them if they had seen anyone or anything uh that could be related to this investigation the York River near the
scene was dragged uh similar cases in other regions were searched for Kathy's ex her name is Jolene was thoroughly
investigated and none of this panned out none of it really LED anywhere there were so many unanswered questions and
she was highly suspect for a while because she was seen with them on the last day that they were seen and that
she also had a class with her ex so they really kind of narrowed in on her and try to try to shake her you know and and
just nothing came up well you know what was was interesting was I I read a bunch
of interviews with Kathy's circle of friends including her ex that were conducted years and years later and one
thing that they all kind of pointed out was they believe that Jolene was considered a suspect because one as you
stated that there seemed to be it seemed to be that this new relationship started
right after that old relationship had ended and what all of her friends would later say in these interviews is that
they don't think that in the 1980s that the FBI really understood a lesbian relationship and that they couldn't kind
of wrap their heads around it and therefore they they really honed in on this Jolene person where all of the
Cathy's friends all along had always said there was nothing there that that relationship was over and in in what was
even uh more interesting was that Jolene had introduced Kathy to Becky yeah but see that's where the story is Criss
Cross and some people say that after the relationship ended is when she said hey
you might like Kathy mhm and then the other side of the story is that during why they're dating is when she met Kathy
and so it's almost like she took her away so I just think it's just um rumors well no I'm going off of the people that
knew the three of these the most right I'm just saying for years that was one of the rumors was that it had to be the
ex because uh she took her away from her yeah well like I said so many unanswered
questions in this um the things that here's some things that I try to wrap my head around when talking about this one
this is a long drawn out double killing so how did the suspect have time to do this this is outside of the car in a
public spot and seemingly without the fear of detection so that's one question and then if he
had planned to burn the car why did he remove the bindings holding the girls you know and and he cut the rope
from Kathy's neck but he left a 3-in piece of this that was one question I had going into it and I think some of
the research I did explained that answer to me once in a while we get some answers the investigator one of the
investigators pointed out that it's his opinion that the 3-in piece of rope was left there on accident that the killer
had slit the throat while the neck was still tied right so that makes some clarification there and then you also
have to wonder was there a chance that the killer killed them somewhere else entirely and then drove the car with the
bodies in the back of the car to the abandon to abandon it along the parkway that's very possible as well the other
strange thing here Captain and the tough thing here is because it's outside because it's in you know there's a
grassy area and stuff and so many days later do we find the vehicle and the bodies that evidence could you know if
it rains you know a lot of the evidence can leave the scene well and what's the motive I think this is another reason
why they look at the inner circles because what's the motive there was no robbery and there was no sexual assault
now let's move forward in our timeline to almost a year later we have David nobling he is 20 years old and lives in
Hampton Virginia David's family say he is someone who would do anything to help out his friends and family he he is
plain and simple just a nice guy MH he and Robin Robin is only 14 years old they had met earlier that day this is
Saturday September 19th 1987 and just put this out there I've seen this case covered by several things and and nobody
ever points out that that's a little off we have a 20-year-old hanging out with a
14-year-old I know it's in the'80s but the times were not that much different I find it a little strange they met when a
group of friends including David's brother Michael and their younger cousin went to an arcade in Newport Robin liked
older boys uh she was smart and even wise for her young age she was involved in peer counseling and David had just
learned that his girlfriend at the time was pregnant there's some talk if it was
his ex-girlfriend or his current girlfriend but the two of them spent some time that evening talking later
David drove home he drove the whole group home after dropping Robin off at her house around 11:00 p.m. David and
his brother went home they ordered pizza and they watched TV we don't know for sure what transpired between David and
Robin during that short time that they had met but later investigators and both families guessed that the two had
planned to meet up so Robin took off to to meet him David left his family's home
around midnight not telling Michael where he was going David was known to drive out to a place called ragged
Island this is a ragged Island Wildlife Refuge in his black Ford pickup ragged Island was a secluded marshy Wildlife
Refuge which was known as a teen hangout and a party spot Robin and David's families noticed that they were missing
the next day and apparently they must have had some kind of discussion between the two families because after they
piece this together the families decided that the two must had gone off together
um Robin had run away before apparently her mother worked nights so I don't know
if she was just waiting for her mother to leave for work and then she was free to leave the house and go do whatever
she wanted to do hang out with with uh David or whatever you know but both families acknowledge that the two
possibly could have quote hooked up despite the age difference early Monday morning a sheriff's deputy spotted
David's Ford Ranger pickup in the parking lot at the Wildlife Refuge at the southern foot of the James River
Bridge this is not a location on the Colonial Parkway but this is the opposite side of the James River now the
driver side door was open the keys were in the ignition the engine was not running but the wipers were still on and
the truck's radio was blaring some sources indicate that the driver's side window was partially open the
deputy saw clothes strewn about the cab of the truck which turned out to be Robin and David's underwear and some
shoes they also found a wallet on the dashboard despite this ominous scene though the deputy figured the driver had
just stepped away and he turned the ignition to off right Robin's family reported her absence later that day and
the connection was made to the truck had been found on ragged Island which was towed Away by County officials family
members noted that Robin's purse was not found in the truck organized searches began with both officials and family
members searching in two days of heavy rain David's family says they knew as soon as the truck was found that
something was terribly wrong his truck was his pride and joy and he would never have left it with the key still in it
for anyone to steal there there was some thought that the truck had been driven by somebody else for one thing David
always parked the truck in reverse so it was facing out of the parking spot the truck was found nose in and David and
his brother had rigged the truck so that the keys did not to need to be in the ignition to have the radio on but in
this case the radio was on and the keys were found in the ignition right so two days later on September 22nd David's
stepfather he was searching on ragged Islands Shores a mile into the reserve for any sign of his stepson when a
nearby jogger named Lewis Ford spotted what he thought was just a pile of clothes instead it turned out to be the
body of Robin Edwards who had been shot in the back of the head several Reports say that her jeans were undone and her
bra was pushed up although it wasn't clear if this was done by water the killer or WEA or whatever right you know
maybe she could have been interrupted during the state of some kind of state of undress yeah maybe in state of
preus soon afterwards Carl found David shirtless a few dozen yards away at the base of an embankment David had also
been shot once in the shoulder and once in the back of the head the caliber of gun used has never been released to the
public although I did hear one investigator many years later going off of memory saying it might have been a
38 investigators guessed that David had tried to make a run for it toward the woods and had been brought down with the
shoulder shot and then executed it looked to authorities as though the young pair had died between 12:30 a.m.
and 5:30 a.m. on Sunday morning a group of teens who had been partying at the parking lot told police that when they
left at 2: a.m. David's truck was not there yet now now we know from reports Right comes out years later that it's
believed that Robin had had sex before she died but in those days DNA testing was not available to determine who she
had sex with what was strange was that David and Robin were found about a mile from the truck you know so did they walk
the mile in the Pitch Black in the middle of the night to The River's Edge or had someone possibly driven them to
Within 100 yards of the shore where you could pull over shoot them and then drive the truck back to where it was
later found yeah well let's go into detail this again so the one somebody comes up on them they're in
the truck mhm they get them out of the truck take them about a mile away kill them leave the scene yeah there's also
the possibility that they're out of the truck for whatever reason we maybe the truck wasn't in that spot
truck's in a different location maybe they're not that far away from the truck mhm but they're outside of the truck for
whatever reason this murderer comes up on them kills them there the murderer moves the
truck right right so that would be option two yep and then the other option is what you said is that the murderer
took them out a mile in the truck killed them and then moved the truck possibility yeah yeah the thing here
though that the families have questioned regarding them being outside of the truck uh one being that the families
both seem to think that the two of them would have went there for one of two reasons either to party you know to do
to do drugs and drink or to hook up or both and what the families have often said regarding this is given the weather
that night and given how cold it was that evening it had rained quite a bit that day as well both families believe
that whatever they went there to do especially if it was one of those two reasons or both that they would have
done that inside the truck so we have a situation where it it seems like the family believes that if they were
approached by somebody they were probably sitting in the truck when approached well it's so strange to me
the door was found open yeah so so strange well you know what I actually think went
down and I and I don't I'm not going to sit here and pretend to know where they were killed or or how they were
approached by their eventual killer but I think what took place is this I actually think they were killed
elsewhere out away from the truck and away from where they were eventually found I think that whoever shot them
killed them and then attempted to dump their bodies in the river where they were later washed ashore and I think
that the killer after having dumped the bodies left the truck with the keys in it in the parking lot with the door open
in the radio on as a a way to maybe entice somebody to steal the truck could you imagine if you are out in the middle
of this wildlife refuge and you shoot two people you're able to successfully Place their bodies in the river which
the water takes them away and then you place their truck in a place where it gets stolen and then maybe moved even
states away you likely are not going to get caught for that double homicide yeah I
see what you're saying but I don't think that this killer is that sophisticated when Robin and David were found no one
connected the case to the murders of Kathy and Becky for one thing daavid and Robin were not found along the parkway
ragged island is nearly 30 Mi south of the Parkway and Theos were not the same in the manner of of death was completely
different we have strangulation in the throat slitting in the first one and then gunshots in the second the sheriff
investigating along with the state police stated that they had two suspects in this particular case but were having
difficulty Gathering evidence to bring them to justice we do know that the sheriff had a theory that a man named
Sammy reer may have been involved apparently he had failed a polygraph and had admitted to take
money um from David's wallet that was found inside of his truck mhm uh the thing here is Sammy reer would give
multiple stories to the Sheriff's Department regarding what went down that evening in one story he states that um
he saw the two exit the truck and they walked down to the beach and that's when he approached the truck and kind of went
through it to see what he could find while they were away and another story he says that they went off into the
bushes and same thing occurred he went into the truck to see what he could find and took money from the wallet so so we
know he's a thief and we know he's a liar well and by his own accord he was inside the vehicle at some point you
wonder is he the person that left the door open well if you need to explain away fingerprints you just did if you
can convince law enforcement that you didn't kill these two but just in fact stole money from them given the
opportunity yeah so you're you're a liar you're a thief and you were born in a barn well the third story and forgive me
Captain because I don't know the order in which these stories were delivered I do know that there were three different
stories given to police during the course of questioning and they all varied slightly well one of the stories
is that there were other people in this area hanging out and parying I don't know if these were I imagine it would be
people similar in age to Robin and to da David you know teens early 20s hanging out and partying the problem with that
though is investigators sought that angle and they couldn't find anybody else that would admit to having been in
the area that night so the first murders take place in 1986 the second the double homicide the
second double homicide happens in '87 but now that's 30 some miles away from the parkway but now we're going to have
another murder and 88 Keith call and Sandy Haley were on a first dat on sep sorry Keith call and Sandy Haley were on
a first date on Saturday April 9th 1988 they both were students at Christopher Newport University in Newport News where
they were classmates Sandy was an 18-year-old freshman who modeled and taught High School gymnastics as she
entered College Keith was 20 years old and his friends and family describe him as a a quote computer geek in a Time way
before computers were popular well he was going to school for computer science something you know a lot about Keith had
borrowed a shirt from his brother that day so he could look good for his date uh I guess they attended a party at the
University Square Apartments although they had told sy's Mom that they were going to go to a movie of course well
they're you know that's typical teenager crap right 20 and 18 you go and you have a few DRS and you
tell everybody El you're going to the movies going to the library both Sandy and Keith were seen at the party uh they
were seen talking to other people though and it it actually didn't look like the
date was going well to other people the two seem to be getting along but they weren't really there didn't seem to be
any romantic spark oh right but he's a computer geek so he might have some social
flaws uh I think that they were both of them actually were out of recent relationships M and I think both of them
at some point had told people at the party that uh you know ke hey Keith's a nice guy but I kind of miss so and so
and I think you know Keith probably said the same thing you know sy's really nice
girl super cool but you know I'd rather kind of be back in my relationship yeah I went on a date like that one time we
went to a coffee shop and we just got coffee and we decided to walk down the main Street of Ohio State campus and
after 2 hours talking about my ex and her talking about her ex it was like okay well this is more of a therapy
session than it was a date right right and and this it doesn't look like anything bad was going on just like I
said no romantic spark seemed to be happening it seemed like the two of them were more interested in hanging out
separately at this party and talking to their different clicks or their different friends there so friends say
that the two left the party before 4 2 a.m. and this roughly about 1:30 yeah because well Sandy lived at home and her
curfew was 2 a.m. so they would have left there with enough time to get her home to meet her curfew and this is
pretty late when you consider the time frame you know being 88 on Sunday morning around 7 a.m. Keith's father was
driving to work and saw his son's red 1982 Toyota Celica parked at the small York River Overlook along the Colonial
Parkway the vehicle was unoccupied this was between 1 and three miles from the location of Kathy and Becky the first
victims that were found 18 months earlier so his father stopped looked inside nothing seemed to be out of place
he shouted several times for his son but you know no Keith so he decided to continue along his way he was driving to
work at 9:00 a.m. a park ranger reported the vehicle as abandoned a Rangers waited until Monday to call the FBI who
had jurisdiction because of the parkway's federal designation the car was impounded by then Sandy and Keith
had been reported missing okay so I know that seems a little confusing but basically what we have is these two
individuals leave the party they've were not spot all of the next day they're unheard from M first his father finds
the vehicle abandoned then later the Rangers report it as abandoned MH they have it
impounded but at some point authorities are going to make the connection between
this abandoned vehicle and then the two that had been reported missing so Rangers reported that when they found
the Celica the driver's door was open the windows were down and Keith's car keys were in the ignition some Reports
say that the keys were on the seat but most in the ignition well and this is so strange too because the father finds it
before the park rangers find it mhm and he doesn't shut the door or maybe he does shut the door and then it's opened
by somebody else later um you're getting into an area that's that's very interesting regarding this case
because the description that Keith's father gives of the vehicle is vastly different than the description that the
Rangers give mhm and this is one of those sad moments in a case that and it's not realized until many many years
later so myself was in this group as well but but mainly Keith's father is the one that I want to talk about here
when Keith's father found the car he said that the way that the thing looked to him was that the two had went there
parked and were hanging out and just had got gotten out of the car at some point
and went off somewhere and when he shouted and called for his son's name and his son never showed up he just
assumed that the two were off let's say having a good time okay and he heading to work decided to continue on when he
found the vehicle like I said it was described completely different the way that the Rangers would later describe it
and the thought that that had been shared by Keith's family and the general public for many many years was that holy
crap did did his father stumble stumble upon this vehicle and then at some point
the killer returned to return items belonging to the two to the vehicle mhm because when he found the vehicle it
seemed to be practically empty and um I can't remember if he saw the keys or not
I think he did see the keys but there apparently there were no clothing there was no clothing found in the car he
didn't see any or claims he didn't see any when the park rangers come to find it
they find a lot of clothing almost all of each person's clothing well we would learn the truth of that and what I mean
by this is like I said for many many years a lot of people belied there was a chance the killer had returned to the
vehicle in that short window of time between when Keith's father had found it and then later the Rangers find it mhm
what we would learn the the Rangers would later come out admit to this and this is quite embarrassing on their end
what had happened was they had found the vehicle before Keith's father made it to
the car right they collected items that were found inside the vehicle and took them with them later they realized that
this car was not just abandoned it was connected to these missing persons mhm so what they ended up doing is the
putting the items back they put them back in in and return the vehicle to how going off of memory as to how they had
originally found it yeah awkward well the sad thing here is Keith's father you know this information
didn't come out till many many years later and I don't have it here in my notes Capon but I believe it wasn't
until 2007 or 2009 so we're talking 18 maybe 20 years later that this information comes out and Keith's father
passes away never having known the truth and never understanding why he found the
vehicle in one state and very shortly after the Rangers claimed that it was in a different state right so but so when
they do find this and they know that these individuals are missing they start searching right mhm and then they once
they can't find these individuals they start thinking that they they might be in the water correct yeah there was a a
thought and I kind of you hear the the tone that I changed to there mhm the the running theory that the Rangers had was
that the two decided to take off their clothes leave the clothes in the vehicle and then go down to the water to go
skinny dipping yeah because when you're on a bad date that's something you do that's usually where that leads hey you
want to see my twig and berries and go for a dip sure well there there's a lot of
problems with that and and we got too much to cover for me to go through all of the issues with that but let's talk
about what was found in the vehicle okay so we said that the keys were found in the ignition or on the seat now we also
have Keith's wallet that was found in the back seat with $12 inside of it and a watch and Eyeglasses were on the
dashboard all of Keith's clothing and shoes were found scattered inside of the car and most of sy's clothing including
one shoe and her bra were found inside the car sy's purse was in the car but her wallet was missing two empty beer
cans were in the back some reports indicate that the glove box was open the clothes in the car LED Rangers to
believe that for some reason the couple had decided to go skinny dipping okay let's touch on this just for a second
never mind that it's 2 a.m. the temperature that night in April was was 40 some degrees who goes swimming in Polar Bear
Club right shrinkage um and the Overlook was up high on the embankment MH okay so
here's the big problem that the family had initially with this Theory they said look it's too cold and second of all it
doesn't make any sense that the two would strip down to nothing and then walk over a half a mile down the road to
go skinny dipping in the middle of the night so furthermore is Sandy naked except for
one shoe you know what I mean is she walking down the street in one shoe half a mile to get to this
location uh this Theory by the Rangers was was abandoned fairly quickly um once the FBI stepped in and once the imagine
the the FBI shows up and goes this is what you came up with guys this is what you came up with and you know that the
two Rangers that are on duty they failed the FBI test you know that right so they
wanted to be FBI because the FBI and the CIA is right around the corner training
their training facilities are right around the corner and these flunkies come across a vehicle they take
stuff out of it they have to put it back in based off memory and then they come up with these goofy ideas you know that
the FBI was giving them [ __ ] about this well the the the funny thing here is like so the the Rangers come out with
this Theory and they kind of announce it publicly right away and that and we would learn that that's kind of why They
confiscated the items that they had originally found they thought that the two had just walked away from the
vehicle M um the families publicly said look this story makes no sense this Theory makes no sense we're all for
theories and trying to figure out what happened to our loved ones but this story makes no sense this is not a great
Theory well and if you thought they went skinny dipping why would you steal their
clothes so they then when they come back to the car that they have to drive naked
well and and then the then FBI finally steps in and the FBI says look we discredited this Theory through things
we found in the investigation and by using common sense that was their that was their statement that they gave so
and and look we're knocking these Park Rangers but hey we've we've talked to several Park Rangers that have brilliant
brains I'm just saying that these these ones did not yeah and who knows who knows what's going on in this situation
but the feds did set up a makeshift headquarters uh and they were assigned to follow up on All Leads now a Tides
expert indicated to investigators that if the bodies had been thrown into the York River it would take at least 3 days
for them to surface MH this is based off of the depth of the river now on Thursday one of the search boats radioed
that it had found a body in the river but the body was of a middle-age African-American man it turns out that
this man had fell off of a boat a few days my notes say a few days earlier but I believe that they think that this man
could have been in the river for as long as a week or two yeah I believe so despite multiple searches using scent
dogs Nets to drag the York River and helicopters the bodies of Keith and Sandy have never been found they are
presumed however to be dead now I do want to bring this up because one thing that I think really hinder this
investigation was when they brought in these scent dogs now these were cab dogs mhm they were hitting on the water
indicating that they were hitting that a body was in the water we've seen this before in other cases though well the
dogs were right I mean eventually a body was found in the river it just wasn't you know the dogs aren't able to tell
you look there's a body in the river it's just not the one you're looking for for the first time after their
disappearance people began to wonder if this could be related to what happened to the others yeah the possibility of
connections among the cases was raised in the media for the first time in April of
1988 in May the FBI offered a $110,000 reward for information on the 1986 Kathy and Becky case special agent Irwin Wells
acknowledged to the press the possibility that a serial killer was at work but cautioned that quote nothing
other than speculation and iography linked the cases the families wondered mhm how did Keith and Sandy end up so
far from the party and from their homes the parkway was totally out of their way
it was not necessary for them to travel on the parkway well it's possible that this um murderer Picks
Them Up anywhere yes you you know what I mean and then sees him at the party goes hey
there's two awkward people leaving together I'm going to take them over takes both of them over murders them
takes um Keith's vehicle and and Parks it well that's to make it look like they were uh approached at at the Parkway
because if you're the parkway serial killer then you know finding his truck somewhere else doesn't go with youro
well and you bring up something interesting there so if in fact the parkway murders are all
connected my thought is if if we're going to include this double homicide of Keith
and Sandy along in this and say they're all linked then the issue here is they're these two would not have been on
the parkway I couldn't find any reason to suggest that they would have been on the parkway other than let's say things
suddenly were going well on the date and they decided they wanted to park somewhere this doesn't really make any
sense though when we review what was going on that night we know that she had a limited amount of time to get home for
curfew they left the party with basically just enough time to get her home for curfew they would not have
traveled the Colonial Parkway to return Sandy to her home and furthermore both of them told several people at the party
when they were getting ready to leave I'm taking Sandy home oh he's taking me home it it almost seems like something
happened to the two of them after they left the party and between the party and sy's home something happened to them
maybe they were killed elsewhere and then the vehicle as you said taken to the parkway maybe this indicates that
the parkway is more important to the killer than the actual victims right and you wonder so in ' 86 we have a lesbian
couple they're murdered outside the vehicle put back in the vehicle they're found 87 we have a heterosexual couple
that didn't well they're not a couple but they didn't didn't really know each other but possibly leverage Lane type
thing they're murdered roughly about a mile and a half away from the vehicle they're found now we have another
heterosexual couple we don't even think that they were driving on the parkway somehow this vehicle is found but we
don't have any bodies found and not really a couple and the the other thing to back up the statement that the two
might not have been on the Colonial Parkway they both of these individuals had been rumored that at times in their
life they had told family and friends in in recent times to these murders or disappearance anyway that they wouldn't
go to the parkway now keep in mind there there was a murder that took place in 1986 a double homicide on there Sandy
had told her sister and other family members she didn't like to travel on the parkway would never drive on the parkway
it seems like a strange place for them to go willingly you know what I mean even if they were going to park and hang
out for a little bit the other issue here is that we have two individuals cuz this one feels a little different but
it's like we have two individuals that are just got out of relationships right so sy's boyfriend
sy's ex-boyfriend might not know that she's having a not a horrible time she's just she misses
him right so they go to this party for all we know that their murder has nothing to do with
the Parkway and whoever killed them says well if I put the truck out there they'll start trying to connect that to
these other double homicides mhm well the interesting thing here Captain and the sad thing here the two of them to
this very day have never been found make sure you check out true Crim garage.com go to the store Page where
you can now order your pre-sale for horsee shirts and the be good be kind and don't Litter shirts and on that note
until tomorrow be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] you can start your day off right when
you find a professional on Angie to get your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals
to get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you
Angie that

The Colonial Parkway Murders /// Part 1 /// 226

Part 1 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.TrueCrimeGarage.com)

The Colonial National Historic Parkway, Virginia - From 1986 to 1989, four young couples died at the hands of what the FBI long ago concluded was most likely a serial killer or killers. For years investigators actively and exhaustively worked the case, compiling a list of 150 possible suspects. But no one was ever arrested. This week we discuss the details of these unsolved cases and examine if the cases are in fact linked. Beer of the Week - Good Life by Billsburg BreweryGarage Grade - 4 bottle caps

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Colonial Parkway murders, detailing brutal double homicides of couples in Virginia from 1986 to 1989.

Key points

The Colonial Parkway Murders. A series of brutal double murders terrorized the Colonial Parkway region in the 1980s.
Kathy and Becky: A Hidden Love. Kathy and Becky were in a romantic relationship, hidden due to societal norms of the 80s.
Brutal Crime Scene. Investigators were shocked by the brutality of the crime, indicating personal motives.
Suspicion on Jolene. Jolene, Kathy's ex, became a suspect due to her connection to the victims.
Unanswered Questions. The investigation revealed many unanswered questions about the murders and the suspect's actions.
Ominous Scene at the Truck. The truck was found with clothes and belongings scattered, raising alarms about the driver.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The murderer remains at large.

Ongoing investigation status

5:18WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.