The Bride Who Vanished: The Niqui McCown Mystery | Forensic Files

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. >> And today, I'm bringing you a special
episode. If you recognize the name Marilyn Nikki Macau, then you have either been with us since the very
beginning or you have made it all the way through our podcast archives because Nikki's story was the first one I ever
told on Crime Junkie back in December of 2017 before we knew what the show would
become, before the millions of you listening now and long before we had a team of investigative reporters digging
into these cases. And Nikki's case really shaped the future of what this show would become because I remember you
have to remember it too. The day after I released this episode, her daughter Payton reached out to me, said that she
had listened, said she was grateful for the attention, but there was more to the
story. So I drove up to Richmond, Indiana. I met with her and I held that conversation with me every day for 8
years. a reminder that even when we had no following, the people who lived these
stories would be listening to these stories. I never forgot her. I never forgot her mom. And I kept tabs on this
case the whole time. But not much changed in 8 years. So, I had this idea. Back in 2017, this show was a lot
different. I mean, it has evolved so much over time that maybe it's hard to notice unless you binge. So, I wanted to
show you how far we've come to thank you for showing up every week for caring and
for giving us the resources to grow. And I want to show you how we put those to work. What started out as just me and
Brett retelling a story that's already been told, like many true crime shows do, it is now a full-fledged
investigative reporting operation with a team of reporters to bring you neverbeforeheard details on cases you
thought you knew, like this one. So, little by little over the last year, me and the team have been digging into this
with fresh eyes. And now, I'm here to bring you the real story of Nicki Macau with never before released information
that you aren't going to believe. And at the end of this, you'll realize that this case that once had an ending might
not be so tightly wrapped up as we thought. It's been almost 25 years since Nikki
Macau went missing and over 8 years since we first told her story. So, let me start by refreshing everyone on what
we knew back then. On July 22nd, 2001, Nikki and her fianceé Bobby Webster went to church with plans to wrap up their
wedding invitations together later that day. After the service, Nikki went back to the apartment that she shared with
Bobby. She changed into some casual clothes like a pink top and biker shorts, loaded up Bobby's GMC with dirty
clothes, and then drove to the Richmond Coin Laundry on Southeast Street, something that had become kind of like a
weekly ritual. Just before 2 p.m., a witness saw Nikki inside the laundromat. Then 15 minutes later, security footage
captured her at the nearby Village Pantry convenience store getting change. I'm assuming for the laundry machines.
Now, before she left, she looked totally normal. Things seemed fine. But they obviously didn't stay that way because
just a little while later, we know that Nikki got back in her car and drove this
short distance to her parents house where she told her mom that she felt uncomfortable. Some guys at the
laundromat had been bothering her, like wouldn't leave her alone. >> Well, and her mom even offered to finish
the laundry up at her place. Right. >> Right. Cuz she had a machine at her place, but Nikki didn't. So, she goes
back and according to the Dayton Daily News at about 300 p.m. someone sees her back at the laundromat, but I don't
think they're like whoever's seeing her the witness, they're like staying there or have eyes on her for a long time
because we just have this like brief confirmation that she's there at 3 and then that's it. We don't know when she
finished or if she left or when she left or if she left alone. We just know that
as the afternoon wore on, she never made it back to her apartment. didn't return
to her parents' house to pick up her then nine-year-old daughter, Payton. And by early evening, her family had started
to worry and they began calling around trying to find her. And with no luck, they end up filing a missing person's
report with the Richmond police that next morning. And even though she was in the prime of her life with a daughter,
she was about to get married. Like, I mean, the wedding was just around the corner. She had no history of
disappearing like this. For some reason, the family said the police didn't initially think that something bad had
happened. They kind of figured that she would just come home when she was ready.
>> Well, and if I remember, they actually kind of used the wedding thing against
her. They thought this was like a case of cold feet. She was like freaking out and kind of just pieced out because of
that. >> Yeah. I mean, they had nothing else telling them differently. And so, with
the wedding just weeks away, this whole like runaway bride theory was a convenient narrative,
>> right? But her family never bought that. And they even told the police about her
getting harassed, right? >> Oh, yeah. They told police, but there was no hint of a struggle at the
laundromat. No hard evidence left behind. So, they kind of waited it out a little to see if she turned back up. But
the more time that passed, the more concerning things got. There was no activity on her bank accounts, no trace
of the car that she'd been driving. In those first days, it was up to Nikki's family to organize search parties. They
got dozens of volunteers to comb the wooded areas and the back roads around Richmond, Indiana, and they passed out
as many flyers as they could. And one of the people helping pass out flyers was,
of course, Nikki's fianceé, Bobby Webster. But outside of that, he wasn't really participating in any of the
searches. And probably because he was too busy doing some really eyebrow raising things at a moment when optics
mattered. According to police accounts, within days of Nikki disappearing, Bobby
contacted the community college that Nikki was attending to ask about her unused tuition. Like, what would happen
to it? Could he get a refund? >> Kind of like he's sure she's not going to be going to class anymore.
>> And he must be pretty sure they're not getting married either because he also
went to a jeweler and returned Nikki's engagement ring. Even cancelled their reception venue for a refund within a
week. Now, at the time, his excuse was that he just really needed the money with Nikki being gone and her not
working >> and his car was missing with her, I guess. Well, >> uh, it was, but that's not like a factor
in the money thing. Nikki had her own car and he had a key to that, so he'd been using hers.
>> So, he had a car >> that shouldn't have been like a money factor. Basically, he just needed to
like pay the bills or whatever. Like, they weren't well off. They're kind of living paycheck to paycheck. So, without
her paycheck or I mean, again, we're talking days, but he knows her paycheck isn't going to be coming,
>> right? Does he? He thought money was just going to be tight, but he insisted he was devastated by her disappearance
and had no idea where she could be. Now, like I said, this is all happening over
the first few days of Nikki coming up missing. And when police start getting more involved, they look at what Bobby's
been doing and they become suspicious of his actions, too. So, they ask him to come in and take a polygraph. Now, when
he does, police say that he failed an important question, one along the lines of, "Did you have anything to do with or
know anything about Nikki's disappearance?" His response was, "No." But according to the polygraph, it said
that's a lie. Now, later on, Bobby came out and said that is not what or how they asked him. He said that the way the
question was phrased was something more like, "Do you feel responsible for her going missing?" and he said like, "Well,
how would any man not feel partially responsible for not being there when something happens to your fiance, your
woman?" Now, I can't find where police ever came out and confirm or deny any of this. Was it is it like they said? Is it
like Bobby said? Is it somewhere in the middle? Which kind of just left everyone
with a lot of questions about Bobby, but no physical proof tying him to a crime.
>> Well, and he had an alibi, right? >> Kind of. I mean, that's what I that's what I remember knowing back then. Like,
right, he after church, he said that he met up with a cousin and his cousin drove them to the Richmond Square Mall
to get fitted for wedding tuxes. They're together for like an hour and a half or
so. And then Bobby said that he made a couple of pit stops at people's houses before going home between like 5:30 and
5:45 where he expected to meet Nikki. They were going to finish up those wedding invites,
>> but she just never showed. So, yes, he has an alibi. You know, there's a little
bit of wiggle room in there. And with that, with the quote unquote failed Polly, after he gets talked to by
police, he kind of just remains in this gray space that investigators like to call person of interest.
>> Now, while searches continued for Nikki, detectives went back to the laundromat a
week later to interview regulars. No one saw anything that was suspicious, not even in hindsight. And more importantly,
no one seemed to know anything about the men who may have been messing with Nikki. By this point, Indiana State
Police stepped in to help a little by putting up a helicopter to sweep across Richmond, Indiana, and the surrounding
area. They're hunting for the vehicle she was in, a 1990 black and gray GMC Jimmy. The thinking was, find the car,
find Nikki, or at least be one step closer to where she is. But week after week, the sky, the ground, it all
offered nothing. And it turns out that's because the car wasn't in Indiana. You see, Richmond, Indiana, you know, this
is right on the eastern border of the state, bumping against Ohio. So, it's not uncommon for people who live in
Richmond to work in Dayton, Ohio, cuz that's the closest big city. Nikki is one of those people. She worked at a
prison there. Even lived in Dayton before. >> Yeah. And this is all kind of in the
same bubble for Richmond locals, I think. >> Yes. But jurisdictional lines are pretty
solid. And so since every indication pointed to Nikki going missing from the laundromat in Indiana,
>> no one was really paying much attention to Ohio. >> I mean, they could go like talk to
people in Ohio who knew her and stuff. And I think they did what they could, like getting a hold of her ex, her
co-workers, her friends, but the focus was definitely not on Dayton. So, this big clue got missed for months from July
22nd all the way to November 3rd, 2001. That is when someone just happened to stumble upon this vital clue that had
just been sitting there casually as if it had been waiting to be found all along. The GMC was parked at the Meadows
of Catalpa Apartments, roughly 45 minutes from Richmond. Now, the reason the vehicle gets spotted is that one of
the doors was left open, which catches the eye of a Montgomery County Sheriff's deputy. He eventually runs the plates
and sees that the car was flagged for a missing person's case. So, when Richmond
PD gets notified and gets out there, they note that the door lock was damaged, the ignition had been tampered
with, and the stereo was missing. So, someone had gone through the car, but they didn't take everything. Left behind
in the back seat was a laundry basket with folded clothes. And this changed so much. Nikki's family first thought
something may have happened to her at the laundromat or like right as she was leaving or coming or going, whatever.
But this made it seem like maybe she had, you know, finished up there completely, made it to wherever she was
going on her own. But where that was, Lord only knows. I mean, at least police had a starting point before. Now, all of
Richmond and Dayton and everywhere in between were in the mix. However, the complex where this vehicle was found had
to mean something. I mean, first of all, the driver's seat was positioned in a way that fit Nikki's petite frame. So,
they're thinking, you know, she may have actually driven the car here herself. But more importantly, she knew not just
this general area well, but this specific complex. She used to live there and her ex, Steven Johnston, still lived
there when the car was found. There was no way that this was a coincidence. So, Richmond police went
straight to Steven, who admitted his relationship with Nikki back in the day had been Rocky, but he swore he had no
idea where she was or what happened to her, and that the first time he'd even seen the GMC there was on the news,
which I remember being kind of sideeye about this, like having a hard time understanding it. Like, he had to have
known that everyone was looking for his missing ex, like not just his missing ex, his daughter's mother. And like it's
the car is in the complex. Like how does no one see this car? How does he not see
this car? >> Well, I mean it is possible that the car wasn't there the whole time or where it
was wasn't in an area that like he or everyone passed regularly. I mean, this was a big complex and yes, it's a little
weird that he didn't see it cuz like I did get a glimpse of some of the footage from Richmond police, like their
evidence footage that was put on an episode of Disappeared on Investigation Discovery.
>> And the car is like not hidden by any means, >> but it would almost be weirder to me if
he had something to do with it and then like left the car in his own complex. >> Oh, totally. And I actually don't think
he's the most likely culprit. I mean, not to jump the gun on like all your storytelling here, but we know he fully
cooperated, submitted DNA, passed the polygraph. He was cleared pretty quickly. >> Yeah. Right.
>> So, the car being there almost feels like a setup, which maybe someone parked
it in a place where he wouldn't see it for that reason, but it still blows my mind that it was there for months. if it
was there for months. >> I mean, the only thing we knew regarding the timing in those early days was that
police believed the car was likely broken into sometime after it was abandoned there, totally unrelated to
Nikki's disappearance. So, we knew it was there for at least a little bit of time, but nothing more than that in
those early days, >> but we don't know actually how long, especially cuz they weren't looking in
Ohio at all. So, if it wasn't Steven who put it there, which we're saying we don't think it was, whoever put it there
may have been someone who knew that he lived there or at least knew that Nikki used to live there. Maybe they knew
about her and Steven's rough relationship. That is someone who has to know you pretty well, right? Well, as
detectives dug into her life in Dayton, one name kept coming up in their interviews. someone who worked with
Nikki and lived nearby, 34year-old Tommy Swint, who is a corrections officer at the facility where Nikki was employed,
the Montgomery Education and Pre-release Center. Now, Tommy had a reputation for
being close to her, maybe too close. Some co-workers, friends, family described his behavior as protective,
innocent, like a big brother figure, someone she had known for like five plus years. But others called his behavior or
feelings toward Nikki obsessive. Nikki's sister, Michelle Macauen Luster, said that Tommy had actually even sent
lingerie to Nikki's bridal shower just weeks before she disappeared, if you remember. She also said that one time
years before, she walked in on Tommy, pinning Nikki against a chair, and Nikki had her like foot on his chest screaming
for help. Something that Tommy tried to like laugh off as just playing around. And this is all sus, but kind of like
with Bobby, it didn't go anywhere. They couldn't prove that he moved the car or did something to Nikki, so he didn't
stay in the hot seat. And that's really kind of where Nikki's case seemed to stall.
>> Did they end up getting any physical evidence from the GMC that they could use? Well, early on they never said too
much publicly, but if they got anything, like when you think about it, if it came
back to either of the two persons of interest, Tommy or Bobby, I don't think it would have helped much. Like, it's
Bobb's car in the first place. Like, >> of course, there's going to be like some
sign of him in the vehicle. And Tommy had been friends with her for five or so years. Like, he could easily write that
off, too. But they weren't writing him off completely. They had over the years kind of been keeping tabs on him and lo
and behold in 2007 this dude pops back up on the radar. Not in Nikki's case or even for another
crime. No, they got word that he was employed as a police officer in Trotwood, Ohio. So Richmond police
decide that they probably need to phone a friend here. They call up Trotwood PD and they're like, "Hey, don't know if
this came up in like the interview process, but that guy you just hired, he is a person of interest in one of our
cases." Like maybe not somebody you want on your squad. >> They agree and basically they forced
Tommy to resign, but this man did not want to go quietly. He filed a lawsuit against Richmond PD and several
officials, multiple newspapers along with two reporters alleging defamation. His whole thing is like he says he was
never informed that he was a suspect or a person of interest in Nikki's case and
that pretty much everyone from the prison where they all worked had been questioned. So like he just thought that
was like par for the course. But here's the thing. In stirring this pot, he pushed himself into local headlines. And
all this renewed attention finally triggered something investigators never saw coming. A new tip.
>> A new tip, but not in Nikki's case. >> Mm- But there would be a connection. So,
in late 2007, an informant reached out to Dayton police and said, "You should look at Tommy for something much older.
The unsolved 1991 murder of Tina Marie Ivory. She was a 33-year-old woman found beaten and strangled wrapped in trash
bags and a quilt dumped near a road outside Dayton. Now, at first this seems like a long shot, but the crime lab had
preserved DNA from the scene for nearly two decades. Semen and blood. What they didn't have was a suspect to compare it
to. >> But now they do. >> Yeah. And they get him using Nikki's case. So he's out here raising hell
being like, "I didn't know police were even looking at me. I have nothing to do with this case involving Nikki." So
Richmond PD are like, "Okay, like you know, to help Yeah. to help prove your case. Give us your DNA."
>> And he does, not knowing that Dayton police are the ones intending to use it.
So they take his DNA and the lab matches it to the seaman on the clothing Tina Ivory was found in. And the blood
evidence found on the quilt that she was wrapped in was either consistent with him or like couldn't exclude him
depending on like what source you're looking at. Now Tina did sex work for a living. So the semen was good evidence
but not great. >> Like it could be argued away and the blood wasn't a slam dunk either. So they
needed something to like really nail him. And that's when they re-examined tape used to bind Tina and they
uncovered a never-before-seen print that was his. So, all of this played out over
years. You know, this stuff doesn't happen fast. So, it wasn't until early 2010 that a Montgomery County grand jury
issued an indictment charging Tommy Swint with Tina Ivory's murder. Investigators believe they finally had
their suspect, not just for Tina's 1991 homicide, but possibly for Nikki's, too.
But by then, Tommy was living far away from the Midwest. He was down in Phoenix City, Alabama. Now, he had been
questioned about Tina over the years as they were like doing all that testing. So, when law enforcement from Alabama
came knocking on February 3rd to arrest him, he must have known why they were there. And before they could make it
inside, a gunshot rang out. Tommy had taken his own life. He left no confession, no explanation, no answers
about Tina or about Nikki. But for many people, his actions said more than enough. And that moment became the
unofficial end of Nikki's story. The obsessed coworker with the violent past no one knew about had finally been
exposed. End episode. Roll credits. But we've been doing this a long time now together, you and me and the crime
junkies. And I might have bought that ending in 2017 when I was green. But after covering more than 600 cases,
including those in the fan club, and building out a team of investigative reporters, I know an ending like that is
too vague to hang your hat on. After all, we still haven't found Nikki. >> So, I got to wondering with our
resources now, could our team dig up anything that changes this case? Are we looking in the right places? Are we sure
that we landed on the right suspect? When we reached out to Nikki's family to see if they would be interested in us
revisiting her case, I was actually kind of shocked to learn that they themselves
had already been asking those same questions. For them, Tommy's sudden death didn't settle anything. And in the
aftermath, some of them have become far more suspicious of someone else. So, they welcomed our help. And sometimes I
think if you're in the right place at the right time, the universe just lines up perfectly because even though every
records request and interview request was denied by Richmond PD, a trusted source gave us some of the case reports
that shed a whole new light on every detail of this case. Starting at the very beginning,
whenever there's a controversial trial, do you ever wonder, did the jury get it right? I'm Brandy Churchwell, and this
is the 13th Juror podcast, where we break down real court cases and put you in the jury seat.
>> All right, jury courtroom. >> When the gavl falls, the jury's decision may be final, but the debate is far from
over. Listen to 13th Juror wherever you get your podcast. We have a jury find as follows as the
cow. >> In those first few days after Nikki had gone missing, I told you that Nikki's
family was suspicious of Bobby. He was never as helpful as they expected him to be. He wasn't really doing much to help
them look for her. Instead, he was busy returning Nikki's ring, trying to get her tuition money, and cancelling their
wedding. Oh, and watching movies. Or maybe just one movie, but he watched it enough times to be concerning. Nikki's
sister, Michelle, told us that Bobby was practically fixated on this one particular movie, one that she felt was
absurdly inappropriate considering the situation. I don't know if you've seen this one, but it's a movie from 2000
called The Gift. As in the gift with Katie Holmes, the one where she has a jealous fiance who becomes a suspect
after she goes goes missing. >> That's the one. Which, like, can you imagine? You were out there searching
for your missing sister and you walk in on her unhelpful fiance watching The Gift. Michelle said she remembers
standing there just like in shock watching him just like play this same movie, thinking like, why this one? Why
now? Why? I say repeatedly >> over and over. >> And he's not even hiding it, but like
nothing he was doing felt normal or appropriate for the situation. I mean, she told us that his emotions never
seemed to match the moment. One minute he would be sobbing and then the next he seemed totally fine, like he could
switch it on and off. It didn't feel real to her. In 2024, news outlet Dayton 247 Now obtained Bobby's 2001 interview
with Richmond PD. And there is this moment where in my opinion I hear what Michelle is talking about. And I'm
actually going to play a little snippet for everyone here. >> Any thoughts where she could be at all?
>> Nothing at all. I mean, give me >> I don't want to sit and go maybe another guy. I do hope it's another guy. I can
deal with that pain. >> Mhm. >> Pain that I can't deal with is not knowing. I don't know if she's hungry. I
don't know. >> Is she what? >> The settings where just can't eat. I don't know this. And I'm sitting around
trying >> hoping it's another guy. I could deal with that pain. I just don't I'm sick of
everyone going to psychics. >> Oh, they've done that, too. >> It's It's okay until the phone rings at
her sisters. I can't stay at my house. >> It's okay until the phone rings. Then it's like, what is it now? What dead end
are we headed out now? >> Mhm. >> There are a few moments like that where he sounds like he wants to cry, but then
maybe doesn't, though. like I can't tell because it's audio only, but he even tells police he's all cried out because
he's just been crying for 3 days straight before they came to talk to him. Now, Michelle didn't see that in
the first 3 days. And when she tried to press him about the day Nikki went missing, July 22nd, she said that his
answers seemed very surface level. It was like the same basic outline repeated again and again. Church, wedding
errands, back home. But he does get more detailed with police in his interview. He says that after church, he and Nikki
went home. She changed into her casual clothes. She took his car because it was a gas guzzler and unreliable. So, since
she was just going a few miles away to the laundromat, she took his with like a quarter of a tank of gas in it. And he
took her Toyota sedan to go run his errands. He also tells police that he gave her $10 to cover laundry. It
usually costs about six to do the three loads that she was planning. But he also
found two quarters like right before she was leaving. Gave her that, too. He said
that he drove to someone else's house to meet his cousin. Cousin wasn't there, so
he drives to another house. On the way, he passes the laundromat, sees the GMC there. He says this is about 2:15ish.
Now, he ends up finding his cousin, hops into his cousin's car to go to the Richmond Square Mall where they do the
whole Texas thing, and then he says he's at the jewelry store in the mall by like
2:45 or 3:00. And he even tells police like they should have him on surveillance footage at the mall. But
whether police ever verified that and got the footage is TBD. There's nothing saying that they did in what we have. He
says after the jewelry store, they left and he was taken back to his car and by like 3:30 or 3:45 he was passing back by
the laundromat and this time the GMC was gone. So he figured, you know, Nikki's done.
>> Now he stops by a few houses before getting home at around 5:30, maybe 5:45. but he notes that he wasn't really
paying attention to the times and then he just kind of hung out at their apartment waiting for Nikki and watching
any given Sunday on TV. To me, this isn't a super strong alibi, especially if we believe that Nikki left the
laundromat alive and well. She is last seen there by somebody at around like 3:00, remember?
>> Well, and he's literally putting himself right there where she was at 3:30, 3:45.
And that is especially interesting knowing what I found in the case report. There is a witness who apparently places
Bobby at the laundromat with Nikki. This woman tells police that she walked into
Richmond Coin Laundry on the day that Nikki vanished. Now, apparently she was just trying to use the pay phone when
she saw Nikki at the entrance talking to a black man. She didn't know who he was.
Didn't think much of it. Not until investigators circled back to her years later and asked her to review this six
photo lineup. They explained the process, tell her, you know, take your time, but she doesn't need time. She
immediately points to photo number six, Bobby Webster, and she indicates that is
the man I saw talking to Nikki. Now, what can you do with an ID that comes like 4 years later and after your person
of interest has been in the news for this case, right? like probably not a lot. Even though the woman says that she
didn't know who he was, never saw him other than that one time talking to Nikki and then in the photo lineup, but
without corroboration from other witnesses, >> her ID just kind of sits there. >> An explosive claim, if real, left inside
the case report. But now that we know about it, we wondered if there was maybe more strange behavior that Bobby
exhibited after Nikki went missing. Now, up until this point, all we really had were Nikki's family's suspicions, which
like valid, >> but we really wanted to find somebody not in her family who could give us some
kind of outside perspective. And side note, I'm also desperately on the hunt for a TV guide that covers July 22nd,
2001 to see if any given Sunday was playing on TV. You don't know how hard I look for this.
>> You are usually really good at finding old publications. I found one for all the cable channels, but not for like the
basic channels. I am desperate. So, if anyone out there knows, hit me up. But >> what we did find was a woman named Kim,
>> who knew Bobby since childhood and actually ended up having a fling with him about a year after Nikki went
missing. And what Kim said that she witnessed has never sat right with her. Now, Kim went to the same church as
Bobby and Nikki. She had seen them both the morning of July 22nd at service. And
she remembers Bobby practically glowing about the wedding. So like no red flags before. But a few days later after word
about Nikki was out, he showed up at her door and something just felt wrong. She
said that she remembers he was wearing Nikki's engagement ring and wedding band around his neck. Even though Kim swears
that she saw Nikki wearing them on the day that she disappeared, like she was wearing them at church.
>> Are we talking about one of the rings that he returned to the jewelry store or
something else? >> No. Yeah. He ends up returning her engagement ring on the 27th. So, they're
like 5 days between her disappearing and then him returning it. And Bobby's at her door only like days after whatever.
And listen, it was weird to her. There could be a straightforward explanation here. I mean, according to Bobby
himself, in his interview with police, he said that Nikki took her rings off before she would do laundry, and he said
she did that day. And this seems likely because in the case report that we have,
it mentions that Nikki wasn't wearing anything on her left hand from what detectives could tell in the
surveillance footage. But still, Kim couldn't make sense of it because the explanation that Bobby gave her at first
didn't match the one that he gave her later. Like at first he said the rings were too loose, so she was worried about
them like falling off while doing laundry. But then in 2002 he told her that she'd taken them off because she'd
gained weight and they were too tight. >> Which isn't just like a different explanation. It's the opposite,
>> right? And Kim also said that when she offered to help search for Nikki, Bobby
told her not to bother, that it would be a waste of time. And what really spooked
her was when Bobby started saying that Nikki was already dead, talking about her being an angel. And Kim just could
not understand why he would be talking like that, especially when in her opinion, it was early on enough where
there was still every reason to hope that she was going to be coming home. >> So with all her uneasy feelings building
up, eventually when they were seeing each other, Kim did something that I think most people in her position might
not have the nerve to do. She looked square at Bobby and asked him point blank if he killed Nikki. According to
Kim, Bobby didn't answer. He didn't deny it. He didn't defend himself. He just broke down crying. Kim
told us that moment stayed with her for years and deeply disturbed her. She didn't ask him again and they ended
things shortly after this. >> Yeah, >> obviously. And for years, she didn't have much contact with Bobby. But then
one day around early 2021, so not that long ago, >> she gets this phone call from Bobby out
of the blue. >> He's telling her, you know, he's broke, he's out of work, he's unable to get
hired because of his connection to Nikki's case. Like it it's always like followed him. And he begged her to let
him come stay with her. And Kim's like, I don't know. But she agreed to at least
like talk to him. And what followed was a conversation that lasted over eight hours that left her seeing him and the
case very differently. Kim says that during this long call with Bobby, she learned more information about him and
Nikki and their relationship than she had ever been aware of in all the years she'd known him. He claimed that Nikki
and Tommy Swint were lovers. What? And when she asked how he would know that, he told her it was because he'd been
following them, watching them, seeing things that he never confronted Nikki about because he didn't want them to be
true. And Kim couldn't believe what she was hearing. This felt like a man unraveling, like revealing a side of
himself that she had never seen before. Someone jealous enough to stalk the woman he loved. So, by the time Bobby
finished talking, Kim said that she knew one thing for sure. He was not coming into her home. Whatever darkness he was
carrying, she wanted no part of it. Kim said that Bobby kept reaching out, but then seemed to give up after she stopped
responding altogether. And then just a couple of months after that call, Bobby died of a heart attack. Do police know
about this? I mean, I know a heart attack isn't like an expected event, but this feels almost like it feels like a
deathbed confession. I don't know what this was, but like Kim held the weight of it for a few years until she just
couldn't anymore. She told us that it was after listening to Bobby's taped interview that was made public online,
the one that part of the one you heard earlier. >> She said that she heard that and she
felt compelled to come forward. So, she says that she spoke with Richmond detective Mike Wright about her
concerns. >> But now Bobby's dead. So, like, what can they even do? >> Exactly. And listen, Kim is clear. None
of this is proof. This is only her experience. But based on everything she saw and everything Bobby told her, she
could no longer reconcile the longtime friend that she thought she knew with the man on the other side of that line
during their last conversation. And girl, same. Like I'll link out to Bobby's full interview with police, but
I bet what rubbed her the wrong way is what I had a hard time with too in this interview. He's like, "Oh, you know, I
hope there's another guy. I hope like that's the reason. At least she would be okay. I mean, you heard him." But he
says he didn't know about anything. And he mentions Tommy Swinn, but like as one
of her friends in line with a bunch of other people. ever says a word about knowing they were having an affair or
about following them. So, if he knew that while he was sitting in the room with detectives, then he was boldfaced
lying to them. >> Why? But here's the thing. As recently as 2024, Detective Wright told Dine that
Bobby is no longer considered a person of interest in this case. But when we tried asking police that same question
ourselves, if Bobby was officially cleared, how he was eliminated, as of this recording, we have not heard back.
Like when I look at the case report, like depending on who we talked to, depending on who police talked to, the
story of like his relationship with Nikki, it it varies and the files are full of conflicting accounts. I mean,
there's one person at least who believed that Nikki and Tommy were having an affair. Others insisted they were just
close friends. Some say it was all just one-sided with Tommy wanting more and Nikki shutting him down. So, I am going
to get like more into Tommy later, but before him becoming like the foregone conclusion to this case and after they
had looked hard at Bobby, it turns out that there were a lot of people that they looked at in between. It was only
ever Bobby and Tommy. Tommy and Bobby. I thought that was kind of all they had. That's all we got publicly, but that's
never been the full story. And this one is full of winding roads, twisty turns, and more red herrings than one case can
handle. But it's been almost 25 years. And maybe to find Nikki, we have to kind of wade through all of that. Starting
with a totally out of left field allegation that came about 2 years after Nikki disappeared when someone tried to
inject a brand new theory into the case. One so pointed that if it were true would turn the entire investigation on
its head. In November 2003, detectives received something completely unexpected.
an anonymous letter claiming investigators had missed a crucial relationship in Nikki's life. No name
was signed to this letter, just a set of accusations sharp enough to ruin a career or derail an entire
investigation. This letter named the guy presiding over the entire prison, >> like the warden.
>> The warden. And the letter claimed that the two had some sort of secret relationship, that they had argued
before she disappeared, and that there were rumors he didn't want her getting married. And just to make things even
stranger, this letter was signed only with the number 6345789. >> What is that? Like a inmate number, a
badge number, like employee? That's what I thought at first, too. But it probably
is none of the above. The best guess according to the case report is that it's referencing a Wilson Picket soul
song where that number is the title. It's a madeup phone number basically like that you can call when you want
someone to like come over and give you some attention. So, I don't if that's what it is. I don't know if the author
was doing this as a nod to being anonymous or like trying to give some clue that like we're not picking up on
or if this is just like a super weird coincidence and the number actually is something else. I mean there wasn't like
a dash in it like the song title or like a phone number actually would be. So >> could it be something else? Maybe. But
like just look at this as a whole. The whole thing to me feels designed and not like someone trying to help. More like
someone trying to steer the investigation. >> Almost like a diversion. >> Yeah. And the case report states that
investigators followed up on this, but they didn't find anything to support it. But did they? Because we reached out to
the warden and he agreed to answer our questions via text and he was quick to shut down the rumor. And according to
him, he had never heard of this letter. Now, it's unclear to me whether like police had talked to him or not talked
to him, but he was clear that the letter at least like that this had never come up. He was surprised by it, which I was
kind of shocked that he wouldn't have gotten word of something like this. >> But he made it clear that he was not
romantically involved with Nikki, that there were no arguments of any kind, and that in his words, she was an
exceptional employee who earned high marks on her evaluations. Uh, >> this is feeling a little bit like the
car to me. Like I said before, like a misdirection. Something tells me that figuring out who
wrote this letter would be far more telling than who it's implicating. Yeah, I agree. And I know detectives were able
to determine like a couple of things about this letter. Really, just that it was postmarked from Dayton, Ohio. So
like again, we're we're still focused on the Dayton area. That's where the car is
found. And I know they tried to process under the flap area for Prince, but they
didn't get anything. So, all in all, based on what we have, detectives conclude that like this Nikki Warden
rumor, whatever, isn't true. And the report even like notes that the allegations didn't seem credible and
that they even say kind of what we're saying, that this appears to be an attempt to push the investigation in a
different direction. But it's also worth considering too that maybe this was just
a hoax because whoever wrote the letter didn't even spell Nikki's last name correctly.
>> If it was someone connected though, what was going on in the case like right before this letter appeared?
>> I had that same question, right? Like if cuz this this is coming two years later
like what >> it feels like kind of cold. Nothing's happening. >> Things had stalled by that point. And so
I had the exact same thought like what is happening that you're like, "Oh, I need to do something."
>> Yeah. >> I don't have all the files. The only note that I see right before this one
was from like a few weeks before when this body had been found in Owen County, Indiana. Now, it sounds like they were
going to run some tests to make sure that it wasn't Nikki. Obviously, it didn't end up being her,
>> but maybe someone panicked, >> right? But like you would think that someone if it was someone connected to
actually what happened to Nikki, they would know where they put her body and they would know that this one in Owen
County >> wasn't her. >> Yeah, I guess. >> And like Owen County, by the way, is like southwest of Indianapolis. It's a
hike from like this Richmond Dayton area, >> which is on the east side. >> Yeah. Maybe they were just getting word
that a body had been found. I don't know. Or again, this whole thing could just be a red herring. What seemed much
more promising to me were two separate anonymous tips saying that Nikki's remains were in illegal dump sites
closer by. In the first one, the Macauan family got a call claiming that Nikki's
remains could be located at a site near the intersection of State Route 320 and US40 in New Paris, Ohio. Now, the caller
refused to give a name or any additional information. And in the second tip, someone anonymously called the Wayne
County Sheriff's Office, again referencing an illegal dump site over the Ohio state line, possibly even
referring to the same one mentioned in the tip before. Now, this second call, investigators were able to trace to this
Nebraska or the Dayton area. They they had it narrowed down to these kind of like two
names, but they were never able to identify who actually made this call. I got kind of obsessed with this one. So,
our reporters followed this lead and we got in touch with the company owner's son and based on the descriptions he
gave us, one of these guys seemed more likely over the other. We still tracked down both guys, but either way, they
each denied having anything to do with the call, and they said they didn't know Nikki or anything about the case. And we
were even able to like figure out exactly what phone the call would have been made from inside the building. It
was like in this area that was accessible to all employees if they were in town at the time, of course.
>> But with this being so long ago, we couldn't get like 100% confirmation to nail down one person. So, kind of the
way detectives hit a dead end, so did we. And honestly, after detectives hit this same dead end that we did, things
really slowed down with this tip. Those come in in 2006. And as they investigate
into 2007, that's when things with Tommy start heating back up. And so, that's where all the focus ends up going. But
before we circle back to him, I have to tell you about something tucked so far down in the narrative of this report, I
almost missed it. But the second my eyes hit one name in particular, I froze. Like, I couldn't believe what I was
seeing in the case report because this name was one I knew well. So, you see, after they found the GMC in Dayton,
police made a concerted effort to really try to talk to everyone in Dayton who knew Nikki, right? Well, one of the
women they get in touch with tells them that some woman named Kay told her she ran into someone else. I know this is
getting a little convoluted, but this someone else told Kay that they were Nikki's godmother. And this godmother
said that Nikki had just got cold feet. And oh, by the way, Kay has this boyfriend named Jeff Moore. And Jeff
actually just happened to be friends with this disc jockey who was murdered in Ohio the year before Nikki's
disappearance. Her name was Kelly D. Wilson. That stopped me in my tracks because if
anyone's listened to my other podcast, The Deck, they might remember that I covered Kelly's case years ago. And that
case is still unsolved. Now, the next note in the report says that they talked to this Jeff guy who's
like mentioned, and he's like, "Yeah, I worked construction at the apartments where Kelly was killed and we were
friends." And it's that's it. Like that's like the end of the the summary of their conversation. this Kelly, Jeff,
K, none of it sticks. But I was over here freaking the f out because another weird detail I already knew because I
lived in that case is that Kelly's on air disc jockey name was Nikki. And this apartment where Kelly was
killed in 2000 was Meadows of Freaking Catalpa. The same place where Nikki once lived, where her GMC that she was
driving ends up being found. >> Something about these Meadows of Catalpa apartment keeps pulling us back.
>> Everything comes back to these apartments. And guess who frequented those apartments? Tommy Swint.
>> And we're back. Apparently, he used to pick Nikki up from that complex when she
and her ex Steven would be like fighting. This is before Bobby. So, my big question, did Tommy know Kelly?
>> Like, we know he hung around that area, but we can't seem to confirm if Tommy
was in the same circle of friends as Kelly. We tried asking around, but so far we can't find anyone who can say for
sure either way. And are we sure Kelly knew her killer? >> No, not necessarily. And actually, I am
going to put Kelly's deck episode in the Crime Junkie podcast feed for anyone who
wants to hear or you can find it on the deck feed. If you are not familiar with her case, you have to listen. It is
truly wild. But at least in my opinion, it is totally possible that Kelly could have been killed by someone who just saw
an opportunity, someone who may have just been in her apartment complex when she came home late after drinking, after
being at a party. Now, we actually reached out to the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office asking if they have any
DNA in Kelly's case, wondering if they could compare it against Tommy, but they said no. They don't have any unknown DNA
samples from a possible suspect. >> But have they considered him? I mean, Dayton's big, but it's not that big,
right? >> Yeah. I mean, we asked them about a possible connection between Nikki's case
and Kelly's, and we were told they're quote not aware of any connection between those two. End quote. So, they
did look at it. Honestly, I don't know. Like, we couldn't get another follow-up with them. So, it's
not clear to me if they looked deep into this and and that's what's making them say they're not aware of a connection or
if it had just not come up, which would also like result in them saying like, "We're not aware of a connection."
>> That answer kind of works both ways, >> right? But if there is a connection, then in that hypothetical scenario,
we're back where the first episode ended, and Tommy is the most likely culprit for Nikki's case. I mean, did
did the case report convince you of that? Convince me 100%. No. I mean, like to to me, like until we
find Nikki, nothing is 100%. Right. I will say that the case report filled in a lot of the blanks, making it clear why
they were so confident that it was him. And it made it clear to me that we never
got the whole story on Tommy. Because if Tommy Swint had anything to do with whatever happened to Nicki Macau, it is
clear that police theorized he worked with and had help from someone that you have probably never heard of until right
now. It's impossible to talk about the new stuff I learned about Tommy Swind without discussing this other person
because it's all so intertwined. And while this is all new information now, it's been there all along. Actually,
after I released our first episode on Nikki and then met up with her daughter Payton, she told me about this other
person. like not in detail, just kind of like mentioned that there was this other
woman who worked at the prison who was like mixed up with Tommy and if Tommy had answers maybe this woman did too.
And it was that comment that Payton made that had me so sure we never knew the full story. But I didn't have the tools
to dig back then. Well, welcome to 2026. That woman is Darlene Williams. Darlene
is a co-orker and friend of both Tommy and Nikki. They all worked at the prison together. And I really should say she's
a friend of Nikki's, but she's a little more than just that with Tommy. It turns
out the two had been having this longstanding affair, one that was still going on when Nikki went missing. And it
made for a complicated dynamic because no matter which way you slice it, the one thing that's clear about Tommy and
Nikki's relationship is that Tommy seemed to have a thing for Nikki. And Nikki at minimum was keeping Tommy
close. I mean, we saw something in the report that maybe she was even using one of his credit cards, like according to
one of her friends. and she may have at least once been intimate with him based on an account that someone in her family
gave police that is recounted in the case report. So there may have at least been some truth to what Bobby told Kim
like a few years ago. But the question is did Darlene know that? And if she did know about all of this, how did she feel
about it? In an early interview with police, she seems to think that she is the only other woman in Tommy's life.
Like obviously she knows he's married, but like she's the mistress. Now, people describe Darlene and Nikki as friends,
but it seems like something was coming between them right before Nikki went missing. When investigators talked to a
fellow employee, she says that Nikki, Darlene, and Tommy hung out together, but later tells them that Nikki and
Darlene had been fighting before her disappearance, and that Nikki even left work upset the Friday before she went
missing. Now, the case report doesn't explicitly say why, though. doesn't offer any details about this. And when
they go talk to Darlene, Darlene denies to police that there was any kind of fight. But what she can't deny, what I
never knew until recently, is that it's possible that the actual last confirmed time that Nikki was alive wasn't 3:00
when that witness saw her back at the laundromat. It may actually be later than we thought when Nikki called
Darlene. What? So, let me give you the whole scoop on this call because I think it is so important. I don't know how
police initially become aware of this. Nikki does not have a cell phone. She only has a pager, but apparently she had
left that pager in her Toyota that day. There is one note in the case report that this call between her and Darlene
is not on the home phone. So, where did she make that call from? >> I mean, do you think they're just
getting this from Darlene? >> Possibly. I mean, she admits to police in her interviews that Nikki called her,
and apparently she was saying that she called to ask about these like skin, nail, hair vitamins that Nikki wanted to
get before her wedding, and she says that Nikki was going to pick them up that day before the store closed, maybe
from like a CVS. Now, I do think this call happened. This is like one of those things that is stated as fact over and
over in the case report. So, they must have confirmed this somehow, like maybe through Darene's phone records. I know
they subpoenaed her call records for the 21st and the 22nd, but maybe it's not as confirmed as we
thought. Over time, and in different interviews with Darlene, the time of this call changes. I mean, like it in
different statements, it's as early as 3:30 p.m. to as late as 6:00 p.m. Either way, it doesn't seem like police ever
determine where this call is made from, which I think is so important. Wasn't there a witness who was at the
laundromat to use a pay phone and like she saw Yeah. >> So, there's like there's a phone there,
so maybe Nikki used that. >> Yes. But per Bobby's timeline, if we're believing his story, he's driving by the
laundromat at like this exact time, 3:30, >> 3:45. >> Yeah. And her car is not there. So to
me, she's not making the call from the pay phone, which like leaves two options in my mind. One, Nikki made the call
from a pay phone at a gas station. This option half works with the theory that police seem to have. It's clear from the
detectives notes that they don't fully buy Darlene's story about why Nikki called because like in the case report
they call out the fact that there was a CVS like right by the laundromat that was 24 hours so she didn't need to get
anywhere before it closed. >> And when we spoke to a close friend of Nikki's, she told us that the rumor was
Nikki wasn't going to a store to get these. She was going to someone's house to pick these up. possibly a co-worker's
house. Most of her co-workers live near Dayton. The co-orker she is calling about these vitamins lives in Dayton.
And the about 44 mile drive to Dayton was one that Nikki made all the time for work. Like so I don't think she would
think twice about just like going there to pick something up. >> So my thinking is if she's going to make
a longer drive, remember Bobby's car is a gas guzzler. It only had like a quarter of a tank of gas, according to
what he told police in his interview. But I found from the case report that when the car was found, it had half a
tank of gas. So if she drove the car out there, it had to have been filled up. Maybe she called then at a gas station.
>> I mean, this makes a lot of sense actually. >> Maybe. Hold that thought because it's
not a perfect theory. Here's the problem with it. Bobby said the only money she had on her was like $1050, right, that
he had given her >> for the laundry. >> It would cost about six bucks to do the three loads. So that's gives her like
$4.50 left. >> Did I research the price of gas in this area July 2001 and then the size of a
GMC Jimmy tank couldn't be your crime junkie if I didn't. >> So the tank held like 31 gallons. Gas
was anywhere from like 132 to 145 a gallon depending on if she filled up in Indiana or Ohio.
>> I wish. >> I know. Like so cheap. So if it's already a quarter full to get to a half
a tank and this is before she drove and used any more, she needs like $11 worth of gas. And again, this is before she
makes the 40 mile drive in good condition. A 1990 GMC Jimmy gets like average 15 m per gallon on the highway.
So, we know the GMC is in poor condition. Like, best case scenario, let's just cut to the chase. Back of the
napkin math, she had to have put somewhere between like 12 to 16 bucks into the car. She had 450 according to
Bobby, >> right? >> So, did she even have money for that? Maybe. Nikki's sisters, Michelle and
Tammy, told us that she almost always had a wallet on her, but no one seems sure about whether she had it on her
that day at the laundromat. All we know is that there was no wallet reportedly found in the GMC.
>> So Nikki did or didn't have enough money to get on her own. Like we don't know.
>> I don't know. Like >> you just saw me do the math. Like I am desperately looking for answers over
here where I don't know if there are any. Like it shouldn't be this hard to know if she had any of her cards on her.
So I don't know. It's possible she had money or a card that nobody knew about. >> Well, and she could have had Tommy's
card too, right? Like that's in the case file. Well, in the case report, I have like a narrative, right?
>> I don't know if they checked >> her financial reports. I don't know if they checked Tommy's.
>> But if she didn't have money on her, then we're actually back to where we started. And she went somewhere after
the laundromat, maybe even in the Richmond area to call Darlene sometime between 3:30 and 6:00 p.m., depending on
Darlene's different accounts. So, wherever she went, did someone intercept her? and they drove the car and had
money for gas. >> Could Darlene or Tommy have been in Richmond around then? >> According to the case report, no,
because Darlene says she got the call from Nikki while she was at work >> in Dayton,
>> right? And it's kind of insinuated in the reports that she was working her normal second shift that day, which
would have kept her at the prison till later in the evening. >> But Tommy was not at work. He was in
Dayton. says he went to church, went to dinner with his wife, like just as he does every Sunday, never venturing to
Richmond. But when they ask his wife about this, she doesn't seem to remember much about July 22nd. And it's really
the next day that things get really shifty. So, the day after Nikki goes missing, this is now July 23rd, 2001,
both Tommy Swind and Darlene Williams were scheduled to work, but they call out, according to the case report.
Darlene calls out of work at 12:45, which is just an hour and 15 minutes before her shift is supposed to start.
And Tommy Swint's work records show that he didn't put in for the day off until the 24th, so the day after he actually
took it. So, if they weren't at work, what were they doing then? >> Well, in a police interview, Tommy
straight up tells police that he took the day off to go to Richmond to help search for Nikki with Darlene, even
saying they met up with some of Nikki's family. Darlene has the same story when she speaks with detectives.
But when they go back to the family to fact check this, at least according to them, Tommy and Darlene never show up on
the 23rd. And we confirmed this with the family today. They don't remember either
Tommy or Darlene being with their group on that day after she went missing. >> So I ask again, what are they doing
then? >> The milliondoll question, but as far as our records could uncover, one that no
one seems to find an answer to. Though you can see why police spent so much time digging into these two. So, by
early 2002, police were running any and all reports that they could on this couple. They're looking for anything,
and I mean anything. And paying attention to details matters because in doing this, police looked to see if
there were any driving infractions. And like both had some come up, but like none for the dates in question,
whatever. But something did stand out to one of the detectives. It was a speeding
ticket that Tommy got on October 7th, 2001. And he got it near the Ohio Pennsylvania border. Seems totally
unrelated, right? But it sounds like they didn't recognize the car he was in. So they run the plates and it comes back
to an auto leasing company at an address in Dayton. So they pull the address up on Map Quest. Throwback.
And you won't freaking believe it. The auto leasing company is about a mile from where the GMC was found.
>> Where the GMC is found at the Metals of Gatalpa. >> Yep. Now, this looks like a residential
area. So, it's probably weird to them that it's coming back to like a leasing company or whatever, but they got to
know who this belongs to, right? So, Detective Roger Redmond and Detective Mark Connory decide to pay this address
a visit. And listen, I've read a lot of police writeups. They're like dry and clinical. Even 90% of this report that I
have on Nikki was dry and clinical. This section reads like the climax of a movie. They get to this house, they
knock on the door, and this like big dog charges at the window. It sounds like there's maybe even more than one dog.
But finally after knocking and knocking, the door caks open just like a few inches and they can see that there's
like a woman on the other side, but they can't see her. And she's asking, you know, like why are you here? And they're
like, "Well, ma'am, we're investigating a homicide. We'd like to speak with you." And she just shuts them down right
away. So she doesn't want to talk to them. Asking them like again like who are you? She's I don't think she's like
believing them for some reason. So they tell her again like, "Listen, we're detectives. We just want to talk to
you." She again refuses. So Redmond's like, "Look, I'm going to leave my card. You can reach out when you're ready to
talk. You can see like if you need to verify who I am, whatever." They start going back to their car. And as they're
about to get in, >> the woman calls them back. She's like, "Okay, I'll talk to you."
>> So they go back into the house and it's like eerie. All of a sudden, there are
no dogs. And as they walk into the room, which is like very dark, the woman like
walks away from them, and she has them sit in the living room while she goes into the kitchen where they can't see
her very well because it's so dark. And so from the shadows, she's asking them, "What do you want?" And the detective
says, you know, like, "I want to know if you know a man named Tommy Swint." And she says, "Yes."
So they ask her, "Well, do you know this leasing company?" Mhm. And >> she's like, "How do you know about this
leasing company?" And so Redmond explains how he pulled Tommy's speeding ticket. And this is when she got upset,
like, "You're looking at driving records?" And she says this multiple times. "You're looking at driving
records." And he's like, "Yeah, we're looking at everything." And they can see that she's nervous.
She's like rubbing her head like in her hands. And she says, "You know who I am,
Redmond. He really didn't. I mean, he could not see her in the dark. So, he just asks,
"Who are you?" I'm Darling Williams. Now, Redmond had never been to her house before. I He had her address from her
employment records, but everything was like, you know, on paper in those days. He didn't make the connection,
especially when it comes back to a leasing company. >> He also never made the connection that
she lived that close to Meadows of Katalpa. So now they know who she is. Darlene's pretty upset. And so he says
like this is the point where they kind of like end their interview. But it got me wondering what if the GMC was at her
house at some point. I mean, they never were able to determine how long it had been parked at the apartment complex.
From what I can see, witness accounts were kind of all over the place. Some neighbors said that the GMC had only
been there like a couple of weeks. Others said it had been sitting there closer to a couple of months. And there
was one woman who said that she walked past it regularly and she was adamant that it had been parked there for about
3 and 1/2 months. So maybe like the entire time. And there were even a few residents who remembered the SUV coming
and going occasionally. So we know the cars there sometimes not exactly in that same spot, but no one could say what the
person behind the wheel even looked like when it was coming and going. So, what if for at least part of the time it was
there at her house, in her driveway, or in her garage at some point? I don't have enough documentation from police
documents to know how much they dug into her alibi of being at work or when exactly she would have gotten off the
day that Nikki went missing. But the car Nikki's driving is found about a mile from her house. She calls out of work
the very next day. She is the last known person who speaks with Nikki. That is a
lot to ignore. >> But Britt, this is where I started having like heart palpitations.
Darlene is not just Nikki's last known call. In what we have, Redmond also notes this. Tommy Swint had called
Darlene Williams prior to taking his own life. Why her? I wish I could tell you,
but that is literally all we've got. I mean, remember Tina Ivy's murder wasn't Richmond's jurisdiction. So Redmond,
when we're reading these these case reports, he's just getting this information secondhand from Detective
Patty Tacket out of Dayton. But according to the report, she relayed something else to him. Tacket stated
that Swint left a note behind and in this note, he stated he was not responsible for any deaths.
But obviously that's not true. They have his DNA and prints for Tina, >> but all they really have for Nikki are
theories. Now, in one snippet of Redmond's report, he theorizes that Darlene is somehow connected to Nikki's
disappearance. And he believes that she was disposed of into the trash dumpster that was next to where her vehicle was
left. He thinks that the car was driven there by Darlene Williams and she was assisted by Tommy Swint. But after he
writes this, Tacket ends up sharing more information with him that makes him consider an alternate theory. You see,
she had gotten results back from the computer that Tommy had used while in Alabama. and she told Redmond that Tommy
was closely watching the local Richmond newspaper and he was paying close attention to a high school news story
about something that happened at the school near Darlene's house which led her to believe that maybe Nikki's body
is somewhere near Williams's address or Meadows of Katalpa the apartment complex. Now, according to the case
report, Darlene's property isn't searched until 2022, more than 20 years after Nikki
disappeared. Darlene consents to the search and investigators bring in cadaavver dogs trained to detect decades
old remains. Based on K9 results, they dig beneath a flower bed in her backyard. Nothing's found. Later, ground
penetrating radar does flag underground inconsistencies. The dogs are run again.
Investigators dig again. This time focusing on a spot where this like plastic flower pot had been sitting.
Still nothing. No remains. No physical evidence found. But there was another K-9 indication of remains in the area
behind Darene's property. An area with dense underbrush and woods. An extensive lot that Darlene does not own.
immediately adjacent to here we go again Meadows of Katalpa. This area that has been tied to this case for decades and
according to the report an area that an investigator specifically noted warranted further searching based on
this K9 alert now. Again, police have not responded to our request for comment as of this recording. So, I can't tell
you if that search has ever been done. The last thing it seems Detective Redmond ever wrote in his portion of the
narrative was this single haunting line. This case has been suspended until further information surfaces.
It leaves this awful question mark hanging in the air for Nikki and for her loved ones. People who want to know
what's been done since the file we got ends. So far, as of this recording, there has been no official police
response from former or current investigators at Richmond PD. And the same goes for Darlene. We reached out to
her for comment and advised her of the allegations presented in the police case report. We even sent her a certified
letter and her signature confirms that she got it. But as of this recording, we have not heard back from her. So after
all this, those woods around Meadows of Katalpa could still hold the key to everything after all.
>> And and we don't even know if anybody even followed up on it. >> Yeah. And if Nikki's remains are
somewhere in the wooded area near those apartments, the question still remains, who put them there? I get why police
looked so hard at Tommy. And according to the report, detective Patty Tacket told Redmond that Darlene even admitted
to her that in the end she no longer believes Tommy's comments about not being involved in Nikki's disappearance.
And like what about all those things Bobby said to Kim? What if he really was following Nikki in her final days? Two
of the main men in this story have passed away, but I don't think it's too late for answers or too late to find
Nikki's remains. It's been almost 25 years, and it's now or never. 8 years ago, Crime Junkies got to hear from
Payton. She was a new mom back then, and so many things have changed in her life.
But in the search for her mother, it's like she's frozen in time. And like so many loved ones I've spoken to over the
years, it really is just answers she wants now, not vengeance. >> I think I would just like to say what
we've been saying for the last 24 and 1/2 years is we're not going to stop. We're going to continue. We will
continue to put the fire under you until you decide that you want to come forward
and say something and speak your peace. At this point, I'm not looking to see anybody really serve time. I just want
answers. I want to be able to go somewhere and take my daughter so she can at least speak to her grandmother
without looking at a flyer or a t-shirt or, you know, a news article or anything
like that. I would just like to have that piece and really start the grieving process of the loss of my mother. It's
different grieving someone that you don't know you really lost essentially. So I just want them to know that I'm no
matter what come Hell and High Water and as the great Eli Pope from Scandal would
like to say, I am the hell and I am the high water. Um, we're going to get answers.
Maybe you know something. Maybe it's about Bobby Webster's movements the day that Nikki went missing. Or maybe you
know more about Darlene and Tommy's movements. As far as I can tell, Tommy's wife is still alive. And in 2010,
someone identifying themselves as Lisa Swint wrote on Tommy's online obituary that he was her best friend and adoring
husband and that he was a wonderful man and that quote, "Those who knew Tommy also know that truth as well." End
quote. We tried every listed number for Lisa that we could find, but as of this recording, we haven't heard back from
her. Someone knows where Nikki is. And if that's you, please contact the Richmond, Indiana Police Department at
765-9837247. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website,
crimejunkkey.com. And you can follow us on Instagram at crimejunkkeyodcast. >> Be back next week with a brand new
episode.

On July 22, 2001, Niqui McCown, a 28-year-old mother, vanished from Richmond, Indiana. She had just attended church at Mount Olive Baptist Church with her fiancé, Bobby Webster, and planned to spend the afternoon doing laundry before picking up her 9-year-old daughter, Payton. But, she never made it home.

Niqui was last seen that afternoon at the Richmond Coin Laundry on South E Street, and moments later at the Village Pantry next door. Witnesses described her as calm, but she had told her family she felt uncomfortable after being bothered by men at the laundromat.

Four months later, the vehicle she had been driving, a 1990 black and gray GMC Jimmy, was found more than an hour away at the Meadows of Catalpa Apartments in Dayton, Ohio, a place Niqui once lived and where several people from life were connected to, The car showed signs of tampering. Inside was a laundry basket filled with folded clothes. But, Niqui was nowhere to be found.

For years, the case appeared to have an ending. Attention focused on a former coworker, Tommy Swint, after his DNA linked him to an unrelated 1991 homicide in Ohio. Before investigators could question him further, Swint died, leaving behind no explanation, and the case of Niqui McCown quietly stalled.

But in 2026, Crime Junkie revisits the first case we ever shared with never-before-heard information from police records, witnesses, and people who knew Niqui best. This reinvestigation uncovers a witness who placed Bobby Webster at the laundromat with Niqui the day she disappeared, a previously unknown phone call Niqui made, a hidden trail leading back, again and again, to Meadows of Catalpa, and a coworker, Darlene Williams, whose name appears repeatedly in internal police theories.

With two key men in this case now deceased, the question remains: Was the wrong conclusion drawn and did that allow Niqui McCown to remain missing for nearly 25 years?

In this special investigative episode, Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat reveal how early assumptions and overlooked details may have buried the truth and why it may not be too late to find answers.

-------- Key Episode Moments: 0:00 - 2:24 - Case Intro 2:25 - 4:08 - Niqui McCown Disappears 4:09 - 6:05 - Bobby Webster’s Behavior 6:06 - 8:14 - Polygraph & Alibi Questions 8:15 - 10:38 - GMC Found in Dayton 10:39 - 15:05 - Tommy Swint Emerges 15:06 - 20:26 - Tina Ivory Murder Connection 20:27 - 21:26 - Case Reopened 21:27 - 29:12 - Theory #1: Bobby Webster 29:13 - 33:58 - Bobby’s Final Call to Kim 33:59 - 37:09 - Other Suspects Examined 37:10 - 41:05 - Anonymous Letter & Warden Rumor 41:06 - 44:13 - Dump Site Tip 44:14 - 46:38 - Meadows of Catalpa Connection 46:39 - 49:31 - Theory #2: Tommy Swint 49:32 - 1:06:02 - Theory #3: Darlene Williams 1:06:03 - 1:09:26 - Backyard Search & K9 Alerts 1:09:27 - 1:12:15 - Unanswered Questions 1:12:16 - 1:13:18 - Call for Tips 1:13:19 - 1:13:28 - Outro

Follow Crime Junkie: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrimeJunkiePodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/CrimeJunkiePod Crime Junkie is created and hosted by Ashley Flowers.

About Ashley Flowers Ashley Flowers is the top female podcaster in the U.S. and the host of Crime Junkie, the #1 podcast among women and the #1 true crime podcast globally. As the Founder of audiochuck, she has built a top-tier podcast production company that has garnered over 2.6 billion downloads, captivating audiences with its gripping storytelling through 10+ chart topping podcasts. Ashley and her team are dedicated to creating responsible true crime content that respects victims and their families.

Follow Ashley: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ASHLEYFLOWERS/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/ash_flowers TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ashleyflowerscrimejunkie Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ashleyflowers.af/

Check out these other great crime channels: @kallmekris The Most INSANE Reddit Updates... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QyUx8MUmRU @rottenmangopod Husband KILLS Wife For Denying Sex During Her Period https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILbbqkPHfSc @KendallRae Mother Killed & Baby ABDUCTED: What Happened To Christine & Vanessa Holloway? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOBkYx3bTN8 @bellafiori The Heartbreaking Case of Carly Ryan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcWwIbLusXA

Brief Summary

Nikki Macau's 2001 disappearance is revisited with new evidence implicating her fiancé and co-workers, raising questions about unresolved leads.

Key points

The Beginning of a Journey. Ashley revisits the case of Nikki Macau, the first story told on Crime Junkie.
A Disturbing Discovery. Nikki's car is found, raising new questions about her disappearance.
Tommy Swint Indicted. In early 2010, a grand jury indicted Tommy Swint for Tina Ivory's murder, marking a significant development in the case.
Bobby's Inappropriate Behavior. Nikki's family grew suspicious of Bobby as he watched a movie about a missing woman while they searched for her.
Bobby's Confession. In a shocking phone call, Bobby claimed Nikki and Tommy were lovers, revealing a darker side of himself.
Anonymous Letter to Detectives. In November 2003, detectives received an anonymous letter alleging a secret relationship involving Nikki and the prison warden.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I never forgot her. I never forgot her mom.

Ashley reflects on her commitment to Nikki's story.

1:01WatchJan 26, 2026

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from Crime Junkie

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.