Serial Confessor /// Part 1 /// 413 | Forensic Files

foreign [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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Punchy I have what they call a relaxed brain it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for
telling a friend [Music] today we are drinking Imperial confession by 1940s Brewing Company this
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Barrel aged in Woodford Reserve bourbon barrels that's right somewhere Captain there is a guy listening to this at work
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foreign [Music] thank you thank you [Music] in his best fact crime Edgar award-nominated book
legendary FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood writes the impulsive offender is not an intelligent criminal he is apt to be
dull-witted and foolish and is least successful at evading identification and apprehension as the
term impulsive suggests he lacks discipline and self-control he makes poor decisions
and carries out his crimes in an unplanned and unsophisticated manner about the only thing that the impulsive
and ritualistic offenders share in common is an underlying need for power feelings of anger
or combination of the two the impulsive offender lacks clarity and definition and so do his fantasies
actually what goes on in his mind probably does not rise to the level of a full-scale fantasy
whereas a ritualistic offender might paint his mental pictures with patience intelligence
close attention to detail and a texture from a richly hewed palette the impulsive offender deals in stick
figures his imaginings are simple and crude more like fragmented thoughts than well-defined Scripts
the victim appears to him in primitive terms female available and vulnerable she may be a stranger
his wife or a girlfriend he is not a discriminating Criminal women to him serve a single function
their disposable vessels for gratification this one-dimensional attitude toward the
opposite sex ties in with his view of his role in the crime a perspective of entitlement
I want to do it so I will some of the killers and crimes we will discuss this week are very interesting
examples of the impulsive offender the described by Mr Hazelwood three of the murders we will discuss are
prime examples of just that and from the beginning to the end of the attack show the recklessness that is so
characteristic of the impulsive sex offender one who randomly selects his targets
with no concern for potential risk and then impulsively seizes the chance to sexually assault an available victim
taking no precautions to protect his identity [Music] foreign was born August 2nd 1961 in Cody Wyoming
she will have a little sister named Pamela the family moved out to Poplar Montana when Kim was just four years old
Poplar is a very very small City in Roosevelt County it is not just BFE it is BFE surrounded by much more BFE
at the time of our case and still to this very day the population of Poplar is less than one thousand people
oddly named as the poplar tree is a fast growing tree and the City of Poplar hasn't grown at all Poplar is on the
southern border of the Fort Peck Indian Reservation the start of our story takes us back to
1979. and at the very start of the summer of 1979. Kimberly niece was just 17 years
old a pretty and smart girl coming of age in a small town at Poplar High School Kim was a
three-year National Honor Society member she played basketball and she was on the
track team she received a scholarship her brains and hard work made getting good grades
easy and so with it came that scholarship after graduating high school Kim planned to spend the summer working
on her father's farm and hanging out with friends a few more times before leaving her little town
in the fall Kim was off to the big city of over 33 000 residents in Missoula Montana Kim was enrolled to attend
Autumn classes at the University of Montana now on the evening of Friday June 15th Kimberly niece went on a date
to the drive-in movie theater in Poplar with her boyfriend his name is Greg norgaard
they went in norgaard's car and he took her home afterwards sometime around midnight or 12 30 A.M
Greg was 21 years old and Kimberly was 17. they had been going out for a while they
had been seeing each other for about a year they say they were going steady for about six months but at this time things
were not really working out well between the two of them they had a disagreement which in Greg's
opinion was there was no really resolve to this disagreement this all stems from Greg confronting Kim
about her having spent the previous evening hanging out with some other guy until the wee hours of the morning yeah
that normally never goes over in a relationship you never want to hear that do you Captain hey by the way I was
spinning last night with another guy and we had so much fun we hung out till about I think she said it was like four
in the morning yeah Kim did not hide this from Greg she was pretty upfront about it they did have
this disagreement but according to Greg they decided they were going to go on their date anyway and during the date
they didn't really discuss this matter too much you could cut the tension with a knife well you probably could and I
think maybe part of the reason for not discussing the the disagreement too much is either you got to move past it at
some point or you're going to the movies maybe you're really into the movie and you just you
know you don't want to talk too much during the movie I'm not sure what movie they saw that night Captain I do know
that the movie Hair which is a disgusting name for anything was a big deal at the time which would
absolutely be Dreadful to watch at least you're at a drive-in so you can drink beer in your car
and then Captain you'll like this the movie Rocky 2 came out that very day so not certain what they saw but that's
probably what they saw that's what I would have seen yeah now there are some good sources out there for this case and
some questionable ones as well we know that with most of these cases that we cover I really like the stuff posted on
a website called montanans for justice that is a fantastic way to do a deep dive into this case if you want to do
that on your own then we have a friend of our little garage show Mr Barney Doyle Doyle knows
this case quite well in fact it's the subject matter of a great chapter in his book titled Reckless speculation about
murder and I was also able to dig up some pretty good newspaper articles from the Big Sky State and also from
Louisiana which will play a factor into this whole case and you'll see why in a little bit
so according to Greg and there is a good deal to to back up most of his story Greg says he dropped Kimberly off at
home and then he went to the American Legion bar he says he told her he was going to the
bar she asked him if he was mad at her he says that he told her no he said he saw Kim's pickup truck this
is actually her father's pickup truck that she used quite a bit right parked in front of her house when he dropped
her off he said he did not walk her to the door shortly after Greg leaves Kim she gets
in this truck and she went out driving Kim was out cruising Poplar that night and was seen by multiple other teenagers
who were doing the same thing according to at least two witnesses Kim was parked
at the gas station sometime before 1am she was alone in her father's pickup truck
one of those Witnesses saw the same pickup truck traveling west on Highway 2 at about 1am or a little after but
couldn't tell how many people were in this truck at the time but they knew that it was Kimberly's truck well again
this is 1979 right good old 1979. so you get home pretty late after the movie you're not
going to be calling your friends because they probably have curfews back in the day you'd have a curfew you'd tell your
friends don't call my house after nine makes my parents upset so 17 years old you're looking for
something to do the only way to do that is to get in your car drive around drive
past your friend's house try to find out where where people are hanging out for my understanding captain and you know
again this is a very small town that there were a couple of things that seemed that were going on at the time
like a lot of kids were out well past whatever their curfew would be set by their parents or by the town if the town
even had a curfew for for juveniles I don't know at that time yeah and it also seemed to me like the American Legion
bar was really a go-to spot if you were an adult and during the summer time when these
seniors or keep in mind even though Kim is just 17 she's already graduated and she's working for her father so she
doesn't have a whole lot of obligations and responsibilities until she goes off to college so a lot
of these kids it seems like while their parents were out at the American Legion bar until the wee hours of the morning
they were borrowing their parents vehicles and they would hang out and find places to hang out outside
and a lot of them would go to there were a couple different clicks even though this was a small town small community
but it sounds like one Community would one one click would hang out at one gas station kind of park and talk and then
figure out places to go right and then the other click hung out at the other gas station yeah when I was in high
school a bunch of people would hang out at a car wash and I was like nobody's washing their
car that was just like the meet-up spot it was the parking lot between the big car wash and the bowling alley yeah and
there was yeah there was a group that hung out there I didn't really care for that group so that was not a spot for me
well yeah the group would change though but but also you worked at a pizza place
and that was a go-to spot that was one of the Hangouts you just drive by to see see if somebody was there but also this
is 19 again 1979. uh I'm guessing depending on what their laws were they would have been
similar to what we had in Ohio which would would have meant that you didn't have to be 21 to get into a bar you
could have been younger because they had three two beer at the time the drinking
age would have been about 18 I believe possibly yeah I don't know I'm not very familiar with Montana at all other than
I know it's very big and it takes a long time to drive from one side of it to the
other now at about 4 15 a.m two Tribal Police Officers observed a truck parked by the train bridge at the Poplar
River West of town just off of Highway 2. spoiler alert this is the truck that Kim was driving
it was a popular spot for teenagers to park and hang out so the officers didn't really think much of it at that time
right when the truck was still there at 7 A.M that morning the officers drove down to
investigate this was now weird stuff for them the officers discovered blood and hair
inside of the truck next to both the driver's side and the passenger side of the pickup there were what they called
scuffle marks or believed to be scuffle marks where the dirt was kicked up approximately 10 feet from the passenger
side of the truck was what appeared to be a blood spot and I've seen pictures of the old crime scene
and it looked to me like this is a fairly significant blood spot it the word spot doesn't do it justice this
this was a big a big marking you could see it from uh photos that were even taken at some decent distance away we're
not going to have an extended cab or even like a quad cab because those just weren't that popular back in 79 so and
this could have been a bench seat as well which would make it easier I think to attack in an individual inside the
truck yeah this was a a smaller cab for any kind of pickup and as you pointed out the pickup trucks we have today
quite big in size this was not that this was not of that manner at all now there were drag marks leading away
from the truck these marks led the officers to the edge of the bank of the river
I want to point this out here these drag marks were so significant that they were
they were blatantly obvious to these officers and so much so that they were able to follow them like a trail of
breadcrumbs all the way from the truck to the river this was not a quick little walk from the truck to the river this
was quite some distance do we know how far I do it I do and we'll get to that I don't I don't have that just quite yet
there at the the edge of the river the officers saw a body floating face up in the shallow water about 10 feet from the
Lower River Bank this was the badly beaten body of 17 year old Kimberly niece now as Doyle
explains in his book he says Poplar is a bit of a jurisdictional anomaly we already have officers from the Tribal
Police Department on the scene but Poplar as we mentioned is in Roosevelt County so the Roosevelt County Sheriff's
Office can investigate as well the Fort Peck reservation is federal land and the Bureau of Indian Affairs
investigates most crimes on the reservations but the Federal Bureau of Investigation
usually assists on anything as serious as a murder that's what we have here every one of those agencies got called
in for the nice murder but when they're all there Captain it seemed like nobody really knew exactly who was
in charge whose case was this consequently the scene got trampled evidence was contaminated
now at the scene officers found that Kimberly's driver's side door was open but the passenger door was locked there
were no keys in the truck the gear shift was in park the radio was on there were
three gouge marks in the ceiling with hair hanging out of them and gouge marks on the steering wheel as well
officers found a three foot crescent-shaped semi-circle of blood approximately 9 to 10 feet from the rear
of the truck tire but there was no blood trail from the passenger side of the vehicle there were
small spots of blood all around the exterior of the pickup well there's markings on the ceiling that but what's
that term called where you have like a hammer and you and somebody strikes down and then as they pull back yeah you
gotta pull back up yeah and that it seems like that's how those markings would happen inside that truck again
that's a small cab of of the truck there was a sweater which belonged to Kim and her purse on
the ground beside the passenger door there was a partial palm print and blood on the passenger side of the door
if you've heard anything about this case if we would have titled this Kimberly niece we'd have a whole different
audience chiming in and listening in for for this case this has been a very popular case
in that neck of the woods for a long time and this palm print has been the topic of much debate ever since this
murder took place so let's dive into this single piece of evidence this palm print often referred
to as the unidentified palm print is as famous as this case is I mean you can talk you can't talk about the murder
investigation of Kim nice without discussing this Palm permit so with the FBI's help they worked very diligently
to identify the finger and palm prints found inside the truck cab and on the outside of the truck as well
after getting prints from the niece family there were four members in this family they were able to identify both
finger and palm prints found on the vehicle this is with the exception of two palm
prints not one but two so it looks to me Captain from the court documentation that I was able to find that these two
palm prints they do not match each other and neither have been matched to anyone
all of this time even 40 years later and it doesn't match her boyfriend correct but even if it matched the
boyfriend we could you can kinda we don't know when those palm prints were put there well they're in blood
okay so okay so it's either during the the course of killing this poor young woman or immediately afterwards right
when the while the blood is still wet and then did we get the identification of whose shoe is hanging out the night
before before she went to the movies with her boyfriend we have that information we
have that and it comes from from the boyfriend and and we'll see that in a bit but I wanted to make sure that we
pointed out here the palm print doesn't match him as well it does not match him and he was a suspect he was somebody
that was looked at really good in this case and I wanted to point out that we have two identif unidentified palm
prints not just one you know the surface story tells you one there's actually two
and the other thing though I want to point out here too I don't think this palm print just
because it went it went unmatched to anybody potentially linked to this crime I don't think it actually clears anybody
in my opinion because as said right there's no nice way of saying it the blood was still wet it might not be very
accurate it may not have dried just as it was placed on the truck and because it's sorted sorry distorted it may not
match anyone now from the truck to the riverbed you had asked about this Captain it was
about 250 feet that's not that's not anywhere close and every bit of evidence we have
suggests that every bit of the attack took place up by the truck and how much did she weigh
well she was a smaller person I believe she was uh I would say about a hundred to no more than 115 pounds okay that's
not that heavy so you would think an individual if there's two individuals that's not really that hard to move a
body even though it's 250 feet the other you have two individuals 115 pounds it's not a lot
so uh the the palm prints do you think that points to two individuals or or one because
again uh like you just said if there's Distortion in the print maybe they're the same print but one is a little more
distorted than the other the other thing that I wonder about too is if the attack took place inside the
truck and outside of the truck why did it go down that way did she try to escape the truck or was
she forced out of the truck either way one of the palm prints could belong to her to the victim right and it's just
distorted right and as you pointed out if they're distorted they could belong to the same person to be honest with you
I really don't know this this case is is very interesting to me because there's a good deal of possibilities I
believe when looking at this thing now as said we got that distance from the truck to the riverbank 250 feet from
there it was a steep 10 foot drop to the river in addition to the drag marks investigators also found spots of blood
and hair along that trail the drag Mark Trail let's get into the autopsy captain
forensic pathologist Dr John faff conducted the autopsy because this case has remained an ongoing story for so
long some of the materials have found their way to the Public's reach I reviewed the 22-page autopsy report put
together by the good doctor on Columbus Hospital of Great Falls Montana letterhead
page one tells us a brief description of the injuries this poor young woman suffered there were multiple blunt force
impact injuries involving the head and neck these are extensive skull fractures with contusions and lacerations to the
brain multiple blunt force impact injuries involving the upper extremities mostly
the hands so if you're doing a little mental Imaging here what does that tell us these are defensive wounds so she was
aware of the attack she was attacked from the front and she's putting up her hands and arms attempting to defend
herself [Music] foreign [Music] we're back cheers mates cheers to you Captain we are back to the Doom and
Gloom that is the true crime world so Kimberly suffered a brutal beating death there were dozens of blows to the
head with damage to the forehead and the right and left sides of the head Kim was
dead before she was placed in the water and there was no evidence of a sexual assault the pathologist determined that
the injuries were caused by a weapon but he could not initially determine what that weapon was he also noted that she
was fully clothed when she was found there was no evidence of her being choked violently during this attack
and there are several pages of the autopsy that are devoted to a hammer and crescent wrench diagrams so even though
he could not determine exactly what the weapon was it seems like he had a decent
idea of what it probably could have been a services for Kimberly were held on June 19th at the First Presbyterian
Church in Poplar Montana a dive team searched the river and discovered a discarded Hammer but the
doctor examined this Hammer compared it to the injuries and determined that the hammer was not used to kill Kimberly
when the vehicle was returned to her father he was asked to check for anything that might be missing from the
truck Kimberly's father looked through a toolbox in the back of the truck and determined that a 12-inch metal crescent
wrench was missing the doctor compared that type of wrench to the injuries and determined that the
wrench could have caused some but not all of Kimberly's injury so now Captain we know that we have the use of at least
two weapons in the commission of this homicide is that what it really means though or does it just mean that the
Crescent Ridge could be responsible for some but that's just could yes that's what he says he says that the the
crescent wrench could have caused some but not all of the injuries right what I'm saying is maybe there's a a
instrument out there that would be able to cause all of them that does not seem to be his findings
I see what you're saying that that if they're saying this one doesn't fit all of them right I I think what he's laying
out for us here is that he believes at least two different types different shapes of weapons were used during this
attack there's a lot of tools that have different ends yeah and there's a lot of weapons
there's a lot of a lot of things but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if you're hitting somebody with possibly a
hammer or a crowbar or something like that that you would then stop remove that item and and then pick up a wrench
in the in the in the truck usually that does not occur you're correct usually somebody starts the job and finishes the
job with the same weapon that's in their hand we also most of us have two arms and two hands
um you could be armed with two different types of weapons the thing with the crescent wrench that we have to keep in
mind remember the bottom portion of a crescent wrench you can move it you can maneuver it up and down
so that's going to have a significantly different shape than some other types of
tools out there especially if if it is in fact you have that point now from where the the bottom portion of the I
don't you're getting you're getting me talking about uh parts of tools that I don't don't know the the terminology for
so but in regards to the the evidence that was collected again we have several agencies that were
at the scene no one knew who was in charge the result of this was evidence stored in different locations by
different agencies and over the years some of this would become lost contaminated and in some cases their
speculation of even maybe stolen or destroyed purposely destroyed evidence well think about this it's a very small
town right yes yes this is it was actually larger in population than than it is now
that's never a good sign if you're in a town that the population you're losing people every year something's going on
but this is like the Connecting Point like you said we have all these different uh departments working in this
case everybody probably knows everybody if you are not even the suspect but you are
the person responsible for this and you start hearing that different departments
have evidence wouldn't that be a lot easier to try to contaminate anything that they have
yeah yeah if you have if it's accessible to you yes the left hand wouldn't know what the right hand was doing you're
exactly right the investigators found and photographed numerous shoe Impressions at the scene but this was
done again after several law enforcement agencies were at the scene and moving about and looking and trying to find
evidence and figure out what was going on so it's easy to believe that most of these shoe impressions
I believe captain that they probably belong to law enforcement we saw this with the Nicole Brown Simpson case where
there was multiple shoe prints and they had to then go back and figure out which
shoe prints were law enforcement and which one were which ones were media and which ones were unidentified it's never
been determined in this case what shoe prints belonged to whom or shoe Impressions whatever you want to call it
belong to who so what we also have are items that were collected other items that may
or may not be even part of the case or crime at all you know these would be your typical items standard stuff like
beer cans trash cigarette butts and and different types of debris again this was
a hangout spot at that time for teenagers and young adults so probably a good deal of beer drinking went on down
there well we also have the truck to the river that's our whole scene that's 250
feet that's a quite a bit of an area to to have you know debris in that you're not going to know what what matches the
crime scene or not what I think is pretty neat in this situation is that the evidence at the crime scene really
does tell the story the evidence shows us how this murder took place we don't know exactly why Kim was in that
location near the Poplar river by the old train bridge did she drive there by herself or with
someone did she was she intending to meet someone there did someone take her there against her
will that part we don't know but we know that she was there her truck was there this was the location that Kim had been
to before she had been to this location before that night so she was familiar with this area
and so more likely she probably went there either with someone or was meeting someone in my mind maybe even a group of
people Plus she's a teenager and many times okay if she's gonna meet some people there
we do have we don't have any evidence of that we don't have any friends coming forward and saying that she was supposed
to meet us there again we don't have phone records of that oh I I don't think that's something
that we should assume I think one of the things that we do have evidence of was she was at the gas station by herself
that we have multiple eyewitnesses that saw her driving around that night by herself
it's very possible if this is a local hangout that you get one or two guys that that go to that
area and again like I said before you remember how it was on a Friday night if you didn't make plans or you didn't hear
about the party you drove around in a car and you went from house to house you know well let's go to this buddy's house
and see what's going on I mean you might like run into their parents oh well he said he was going over to this guy's
house so you're like okay we'll head there and then once you get there like oh well
they actually took off and went down you know what I mean so I I just it seems like
she got in this argument with her boyfriend and then he was like well I'm going to
go to the bar and she she wasn't okay with just staying at home so it looks like she was going around
trying to figure out what to do it's very possible that she could have came up to that spot just to see if
anybody was there that she knew and then ran into trouble well that's why I say I think she either
went there with somebody or with the intention of meeting somebody whether that was a plan to meet
someone or just her hoping that other people were there right right and I say that because thinking back to my youth
you know we didn't we weren't able to text people and go hey what are you doing tonight hey what are you doing
tonight no you if you got off work I remember plenty of times if I got off work at 11 12 o'clock at night if it was
a Friday Saturday I had three three or four spots that I knew I could do it take me five minutes to
drive by all three or four of these spots and I might find a handful of my buddies chilling at one of these spots I
mean finster's garage comes to mind right I mean that was was my go-to that's where I hope to find people but
regardless the other thing that I do want to point out too though the reason why I believe that though
Captain is because I don't think if someone abducted her or took control of her and
her vehicle and decided that they were they had murder in mind or rape and mind this doesn't seem to me like an ideal
spot to go to again it's a known Hangout you don't take somebody that you're planning to do something like that to to
that spot yeah again I'm going to disagree because well you people people could already be there or somebody could
happen upon you during the commission of your attack you you know the area it's a
small area it's a town of 800 right some people but what we're not privy to is how long did people hang out at this
spot you could drive 15 minutes in any direction and be out in the middle of nowhere
From Poplar Montana right I understand that but what I'm saying is like the car wash for example that people hung out
you weren't going to see people there at 12 o'clock or one o'clock you know I mean like you'd see people
from maybe at nine people would be starting to hang out maybe you'd see some people by 11. you're you're
forgetting the statements of the police officers that said they saw the truck at
4am thought nothing of it because they knew teenagers hung out there it's one car
I don't know I I just I think it's not a bad spot you're 20 you know you're 250 feet from uh a great
spot to dump a body well regardless the the river which is going to wash away tons of evidence
regardless of our our thoughts and feelings what we do know is that some of the attack took place in the truck some
of the attack took place outside of the truck she was hit many times with at least two hard objects used as Weapons
she was dragged down to the River's Edge this over 200 feet away there is about 10 or so feet of a steep embankment to
the actual water someone pushed her over and she rolled down this embankment her killer or Killers then went down the
embankment and pushed Kim they had to physically push her into the water she was found face up and she had mud on
her from the embankment the keys to the truck were not located at the scene even though they were found
even though they found her purse the murder weapons were not found so we have two palm prints that don't match that
kind of points in the direction of killers instead of killer possible multiple instruments used as
weapons that points towards killers not killer the fact that it's 250 feet yes she's not that heavy but it'd be a
lot easier to move her with two individuals like you said there's a steep in embankment
there's a lot that that points to again I even think the attack inside the truck and outside the truck makes sense
like I'm going to get in and you're going to go around to the other side because this is also in the middle of
nowhere you think depending on how she was attacked if she was fighting back she has a lot of defensive wounds that
there would be a possibility that she'd be able to get out and run or or do something a lot harder to get away from
two individuals there's just a lot that points to to two instead of one it does where my mind
goes to though is if you got two full-size males as the attackers I don't I don't understand why the the drag
marks I think you'd be able to move her without that that much of a trail yeah yeah I
agree so let's go back to Kim's boyfriend Greg did he really drop her off as said well
yes we we know this for several reasons first Kim took her father's truck and drove it into town this is
n't out of character we have more than one person who says they saw Kim sitting alone in the truck parked at the gas
station investigators learned right away about some troubles between Greg and Kim as we
pointed out the two they they lived just a couple of houses away from each other
now late on that afternoon of June 15th Greg says that he saw Kim arriving home he spoke with her and she looked tired
this is where he becomes aware of her hanging out with this other guy he says hey why do you look so tired she says
well I was out driving around till 4 30 in the morning the previous night with another guy his name is Steve shagin
Greg was in his words this is his exact words a little pissed about this but they were going to stick to their plan
and go out on the date as well as said before the date Greg went to the store to buy some beer and
this this is where you start getting that whole small town story that whole small town mix going on
when he's at the store buying beer he sees Steve's girlfriend and Greg decides to inform Steve's girlfriend her name is
Susie Kern about what went down what a dick I don't mind doing that at all I mean I just think it's funny that he saw
her and he went yeah I'm going to ruin her night well he probably doesn't trust the Steve guy and wants her to know what
what Steve's been up to as well well I know and I understand that I know that he's just trying to inform her but it's
just like he just ruined her night well that be it as it may that's what happened they went to the movie theater
the drive-in theater this was around 8 30 after the movie he says they drove around for a little bit and then he took
her home dropping her off somewhere between midnight and 12 30 A.M he said he was going to to the bar now
multiple Witnesses all said they saw and interacted with Greg when he was at the
legion Club bar that night right these Witnesses include but are not limited to several members of Greg's family and
some of Greg's friends but also Kim's parents as well he sees them there and talks with them
he told investigators that he leaves this bar around 1 30 a.m and drove around town a few times looking to see
if Kim was out driving so this on the surface to me seemed a little weird why would he just drive
around town looking to see if Kim was out driving even I thought it was even a little weird even knowing that she was
out driving the night before he says this is because he just saw her parents at the bar and they've known
each other for a long time he knows that when her parents are out late at night that Kim would go out late at night
so he drives by her house after driving around he doesn't see her drives by her house and confirms that she was in fact
gone by seeing the truck was gone at this time yeah I mean let's be honest he's he's trying to catch her in the ACT
if she's driving around with another guy he then goes to a pay phone and decides
to call Kim's house Kim's mother now home answered the phone and Greg asked if Kim was home at that time Kim's
mother said that she was not she asked if Greg would drive around and look for Kim
at about 1 45 a.m Greg called Catherine Moe from the same pay phone according to
Greg he called Catherine after speaking to Kim's mother he called because he wanted Catherine to come out that night
and he does say to the officers he's upfront about this partly he wanted to make Kim jealous if he happened to see
Kim out driving around with somebody else he was hoping she would see him out driving with something gotcha that's
what you'd say two can play at this game according to Catherine Greg spoke very casually and never really said why he
called she said that he did not sound drunk and he didn't mention anything about Kim niece during the call but when
questioned by police Catherine also added that Greg had never called her before and the call was not expected in
fact Greg told Catherine that he got her number from information there are some reports out there there that say these
two that they dated in the past I'm not clear where anybody gets that information or where that came from I'm
not saying that it's not true I'm just saying that in statements that Catherine Moe and her mother and her mother two
statements given to police both of them said that Greg had never called this girl before and we see how much activity
is going on on the phone between all these different people and different families you would think if they did in
fact actually date previously that there would have been some kind of phone calls
Greg says that he drove around until approximately 2 45 a.m or maybe 3 A.M he then gave up and went home and he went
directly to bed he does say that he never went by the train bridge that night now remember Steve
and his girlfriend yeah Susie Kern they were out together the night of June 15 and they remembered seeing Greg and Kim
together early that evening which makes sense Steve says later he saw Kimberly alone
in her truck parked at the gas station around 12 30 or 1 a.m he also says that he saw Greg's Mustang parked at the
legion Club at about 1 30 A.M I go through all of that just to point out that a big chunk of Greg's story is
matching up with not only what he's telling police but with what other Witnesses are separately individually
telling the police and their statements right and and who's the information coming from I think that's important
yeah because if there's no need for Kim's parents to Aid him there's no need for Steve to Aid his story yeah if
anything those are the two suspects right off the bat right well Kim's parents are the
ones or the or the victims you know they have they have more skin in the game than anybody when it comes to nailing
somebody for the murder of their daughter right but what I'm saying with with Steve he's going hey I I saw his
car right you know so I have uh I believe there's a lot of weight to those um uh eyewitness accounts yeah so then
here's where things take a turn Okay because really what we have very early on is police looking at Greg norgaard as
their number one suspect he's the boyfriend he was out late Kim's out late out late as well they knew that there
was a disagreement between the two they're looking at Greg but officers canvassed the homes in the vicinity of
the train bridge looking for potential Witnesses well they find a woman named Roberta
clincher she tells deputies that she did not hear anything unusual that morning but her
teenage son Barry Beach had returned home early that morning and he was covered in blood
oh my God that's not good either not good Bob the beach family does they lived near Kim niece's family to be
honest with you most the people in the story lived quite close to one another Barry said that the blood came from
punching his car in frustration after it got stuck in the sand at a swimming hole
I'd say let me see your knuckles well here's where the story starts to get wonky the the investigation the case
and everything I mean we already have a contaminated crime scene and missing evidence and Scattered evidence really
amongst different jurisdictional custody he's going to get Willy Wonky right later
this woman denies saying any of this and what we will learn is that the deputy that took the statement or or spoke with
this woman as he claims did not write down any kind of report about this claim he says that he notified the sheriff
immediately about this information um and then they took it from there Barry Beach
well he's even tied more closely to the victim he dated Kimberly's younger sister Pam
Beach was 17 years old at the time of Kim's death and lived a few hundred yards away from the train bridge he
moved to Louisiana to live with his father and his stepmother not too long after Kim's death he was police did
speak with him a couple times before he moved away right the initial suspects as
you can see are the boyfriend Gary norgaard and now Barry Beach both were interviewed several times both denied
any involvement and investigators never found any direct evidence linking either
to the crime at this stage of the investigation well today check out Barry Beach's car to see if there's any dings
or dents that they put in when he punched the car well his statement about punching the car is backed up by two
witnesses and the way that this story works is that he I think he had a Ford Rancho Ranchero
I'm trying to think it I I wasn't born when these vehicles were around but it was still with Rancho because it's just
better Ranchero I think is actually that's probably what it is but banjo is great which it was kind of cool Captain
because it's a like an El Camino it's a it's a car in the front and truck in the
back business in front party in the back no it's I think that's a party in the front and work in the back if it's a El
Camino but it sounds like something you'd buy at Taco Bell that's three o'clock in the morning give me a couple
of rancheros I'm gonna pick up three on my way home from the garage he says that him and two friends this is
another couple went to go swimming and this is uh very Beach yeah and this is where his his story and it's backed up
by these two friends the interesting thing though is he's dating the younger sister at the time
Pam he asked her to go swimming she does not go swimming that day he Parks his vehicle
and anybody that knows like an El Camino or any types of these vehicles they're they're not super high up off of the
ground they're kind of low to the ground he Parks it and he got it stuck in the sand
and he's a young dude he doesn't know any better he's trying to get it out of the sand and instead of using his brain
tries to muscle It Out by room back and forth back and forth back and forth right
and he ends up blowing out the transmission trying to get it out of the sand in aggravation he gets pissed he yells
at his friends he punches the vehicle he kicks it um just really just you know dumb
teenage stuff that you're like oh why did I really bloody myself hurt my hand and ding up my vehicle out of out of
just being something that I could fix later Barry beach sounds like very [ __ ] well interestingly enough there was also
a rumor going around town that a group of teenage girls killed Kimberly nice the investigation went nowhere
productive for about a year and a half but that makes sense though too because even if there was two
Killers but they're both female drag marks right the defensive wounds I I would like to know
and they probably know as far as like the autopsy goes but like how how deep some of these wounds were and
they could normally they could and now they can maybe they couldn't back then but they could tell you the force of the
trauma the pressure the pounds per pressure or whatever they usually can do that when somebody's only struck a
couple of times the problem when you have repeated blows over and over again and I apologize for having to say this
but there's no nice way of saying it the more you hit something over and over again in the same spot the more right
deeper the impact becomes and she was as said in the autopsy report hit dozens of
times in the head the as as we were talking about Captain the investigation really goes nowhere
for about a year and a half and then in a very weird turn of events this is in February of 1981.
Kim's great uncle he's a former state senator Stanley niece he's murdered Stanley niece was 77 at
the time and he had a lady friend that was renting a room from him the way that this goes down is
investigators found the bodies of three people at niece's home it was Stanley niece it was the woman renting the room
from him and her friend it appeared that the three were shot in the basement of the home while watching TV and baking
cookies this is a small town as we've pointed out time and time again murder is not a
common thing in this town at all right and the sheriff frustrated that they have no answers in the Kim niece case
now her great uncle former state senator is killed he says to the paper you know
he's asked is there any chance that these crimes are related and he said look we don't have any information or
evidence at this time mind you this is the day that they find the bodies that these two events are connected but
he says I hope that they are that might give us some type of lead in the Kim niece case that has now gone cold yeah
something that they're missing from the first case that only makes sense by connecting the murders
right the three of these victims were killed on February 25th this was determined by
scientific evidence found at the crime scene the bodies were not found until the following day on the 26th of
February but it gets even weirder Captain because in March in early March we have an arrest that is made in this
case of the three individuals killed in the basement what they did was they linked the bullet
casings and bullets that were used to kill these three victims to spent shell casings that were found in the
possession of an individual this individual lived next door to Stanley nice they determined that these bullets were
all fired from the same gun the same gun that killed these three people at some point was in the possession of this
person now this person who is he well oddly enough his name is William norgaard he's 26 years old at the time
next door neighbor to Stanley niece Kim's great uncle and he's the older brother of Kim's one-time boyfriend Greg
norgaard the strange thing about this as much as you want to look into it and go
this has got to be connected these two things have all got to be connected and somehow in some manner
it actually appears that they may not have been unfortunately William norgaard was a
very he had a he had a lot of problems and he struggled through a lot of issues for a
long long time he spent the majority of his life in and out of hospitals for being treated for physical ailments as
well as psychiatric treatment he was quite unstable and he there's some discrepancy either he was on new
meds at the time or off of his meds at the time of these of this triple homicide
but what happened was we know that he was home there was something going on with his medication at the time and he
had developed this weird obsession with Stanley niece and the the financial situation of his parents
and it's believed that he thought or held Stanley knee somewhat accountable for the financial problems that his
parents were experiencing and decided to attack the old man and gun down him as well as these two people
as well we have William norgaard who's sentenced to 300 years in prison they have in Montana at the time anyway what
is referred to as dangerous offender status and they gave that to this young man who really was
I've reviewed this pretty well because I thought there had to be some kind of connection I even wondered if maybe if
if William norgaard was involved or responsible for the killing of Kimberly niece
but this this kid was I say kid he was 26 when he was convicted I'm talking years and years of treatment
documentation to show that he was treated for this for 12 13 years prior to these homicides and unfortunately he
very likely in my opinion should not have been sentenced to prison for this he may not
even understand what it is that he did or understand right from wrong and this young man took his own life while he was
in prison this was in December of 1984. foreign [Music] thanks for telling a friend if you need
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everyone to join us back here in the garage tomorrow until then be good be kind and don't live
foreign [Music]

Serial Confessor /// Part 1 /// 413

Part 1 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

This week in the Garage… There is a murder of a young woman in Montana and the case goes cold. Then we have three killed in Louisiana. Police announce that the three murders are connected and then they get a confession to all four. Join us for a cold one and some cold case discussion that you will not forget. Beer of the Week - Imperial Confession by 1940’s Brewing CompanyGarage Grade - 4 out of 5 Bottle Caps

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the unsolved murder of Kimberly Niece and the investigation's challenges, including unidentified palm prints and suspect alibis.

Key points

The Impulsive Offender. FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood describes the impulsive offender as lacking discipline and self-control.
Kimberly Niece's Disappearance. Kimberly Niece, a bright 17-year-old, goes missing after a date.
The Unidentified Palm Print. A key piece of evidence in Kimberly's case remains unidentified even after decades.
Brutal Attack Revealed. Kimberly suffered multiple blunt force injuries, indicating a violent struggle for her life.
Murder Weapons Speculated. The autopsy revealed injuries consistent with multiple weapons, raising questions about the attack.
Evidence of Multiple Attackers. The investigation suggests the involvement of at least two individuals in Kimberly's murder.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The impulsive offender is not an intelligent criminal.

Citing FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood's insights on impulsive offenders.

3:46WatchNov 12, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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